clerics and SP

[marasgal]

As I have been playing I noticed that some warriors just charge into places without thought of the cleric.

So when these warriors just keep running into situations, and not giving the cleric time to replenish SP through rest, they have to use SP Stones/SP Potions. Now when out in the regular maps its not to bad, because you usually share the loot. So there is a chance to replenish that lost SP stone / SP potion, but while in KQ, there is only a slim chance to get some of that back. As a warrior you might use 1-5 HP Stones. The cleric has a whole party to keep up, and they might use 10-20 sp stones on a given run. Trying to keep everyone alive as they go charging around.

Now I am not saying to just take your time, and stop and let them rest all the time, just be a bit more cautious about what your doing. The SP isnt free if they dont have time to rest and replenish. So you might cost them alot of money, so you might profit from the run, they might not.

I for one will start to give a few potions to the cleric after a run, just as a thank you, knowing they spent up alot of SP on me keeping me alive in a KQ.


(Not trying to make it sound like its all warrior faults, just used them as an example. Even Mages/Archers do this)

now as a side note, I have also noticed that these players think clerics should be able to heal and rez at the same time. It doesnt happen that way. They also think clerics should just be able to rez people quickly without delay.

Ok here are a few things to know. 1 the rez spell takes like 5 seconds if I remember right, to cast. Its not instant. Second it takes like 30 seconds to recharge. Plus if the cleric is getting wailed on by that thing you were fighting and the aggro shifted to them, its hard to Heal themselves, while trying to rez you, and at the same time Kill/lose aggro of that monster.

So to all the clerics in the game. I thank you for your hard work. I will try to be a bit more courteous in the future.

[ASCIIrider]

At least I'm glad someone understand what clerics go through, I made a battle cleric so I can solo, so I don't have to deal with that all the time.

Also it seems like most are always saying "heal me", expecting the cleric to spend their money to keep them alive. All classes can carry HP stones and pots.. use them.

If someone dies, the cleric's to blame because they were too busy healing one to take care of the other who decided to go off and aggro 3 mobs....

If the cleric dies, the cleric's to blame as well, because he took the aggro trying to heal someone and the 3 mobs aggro'd on him/her.

The absolute worst is when you're in a party with fighters who are the leader and they decide to keep it as free allocation. if you're standing back healing people, all you do is lose money from pots and stones to keep oiur SP up, while the figther's getting rich, at your expense.

Also as a cleric you're suppoused to heal/rev everyone on a map.... not to mention be psychic and know where someone is just cause they shout they need a rev, without bothering to even give grid coordinates. I've lost track of how many times I've died..trying to help others, some are thankful, others think because you're a cleric it's your job to help them stay alive. I've even had one person curse at me in whispers after I wouldn't help her anymore after I died while being nice and healing her each time she asked.. then telling her no when I came back because she didn't even care that I died helping her.

Thanks Mara for looking at it from our point of view.

[Tamlinari]

You are so right ASCIIrider.
It is even slightly worse for the female clerics.
I have been booted from parties because I couldn't keep 3 fighters and two mages all healed fast enough.
Plus myself.
They are out front acting like tanks and shouting "Heal" every 30 seconds.
And when their mages get gang mobed and killed it is somehow my fault.
So after I revived their two mages and healed them they booted me from the party. LOL
To go look for another cleric no doubt.
I burn all my sp pots and stones and they collect all of the drops.
Too many parties use clerics like free pots.
Here is my advice to all clerics, stop healing everyone!
That should not be an expectation.
Let them use their own stones and pots!
Everyone thinks it is so cool to be a cleric and it is most of the time but it definitely has a down side too.
Every time I heal someone or revive them I burn a lot of sp.
And even after you revive them they expect you to bring them up to full health. LOL
:D

[IroguroMeek]

Agree with you guys about how fighters often rely too much on clerics during KQ. But KQ has always been about teamwork. The Fighters Taunt and keep the clerics and most of the archers/mages safe from harm. Being a Fighter myself, I don't rely on clerics to heal me, but I would surely appreciate it if they did. Just consider the fact that Clerics may spend money on SP STONES/POTS but Fighters spend WAY more restocking thier HP stones. It cost me roughly 4.5k to FULLY restock my HP stones, when compared to a cleric who may only spend 2k to restock thier SP STONES. Also, you have to remember that Fighters can only carry a very small amount of SP STONES, roughly 30-36 for lvl 30-40 fighters. Considering the fact that each skill that the fighter uses cost about 60+ sp points, we are at a disadvantage just restocking SP stones. Which cost around 1.6k to restock sp stones. I've done most of the KQs and especially in GH where constant spamming of skills for us fighters is needed to bring down Marlone or other foes quickly can TOTALLY drain our SP stones. So it may cost you 2k but remember that it also cost us fighters 1.6k to restock stones excluding the fact that there are times where we have to use HP stones as well because our HP dropped too low and it's too risky to rely on a cleric to heal you before the enemy deals the next blow. So in some cases, fighters probably spend more money on average than clerics do. I think that it's fair, without a balanced team for KQ, you would fail. =P

[Oalka]

As a high-level healer from a VERY party-oriented game, I completely understand healer's woes. The vast majority of people in this game are either new to MMOs altogether, or come from games that are basically solo games with party options, they don't know what to expect from other party members. In my main game, shouting 'heal' every few seconds is a quick way to get on people's blacklist.

[cunnington]

In most of the KQs ive been in and a mishap happens. Everyone starts shouting rev PLZZZ!!! over and over which gets annoying, given 1. I see you, you dont have to shout at me for 10 mins. 2. Not every cleric has rev right away, so only a few clerics might have rev in that KQ run and its damn hard trying to rev/heal everyone at the same time. Its especially worse from the people who abuse clercis and go off an died 10 times in a row and dont listen to advice on how NOT to die. And then they get angry when i dont want to rev them anymore after dying the 5th time ._.

[gizelaX]

Since my main char is a cleric i agree with most of the said stuff.

But I do have a comment about healing in parties/KQ. As long as everyone in the party 'knows their place' it's easy. The tanker taunts, keeping mobs away from others, relying on the cleric to heal him while the rest deal damage. No one has to use HP pots and me being a mostly SPR cleric have enough mana to get through a KQ using only 2-3 pots (taking into acounts the usual rests). So everyone's happy. The problem arises when the tanker doesn't do his job or mages/archers pull (mages use lvl1 magic bolt instead of your strongest spell - it's got good DPS + stops you from puling unintentionaly) because then you suddenly have to heal all around and the cool down for heal alone (even though i put 5 points in reducing it) is enough to get us all killed.

But there's another thing I would like to add. I just got out of KQ Mara playing my fighter (i'd advise everyone to try playing all classes, you'll understand them better) and I was in a party with a cleric that didn't heal. I got 4 heals max during the whole run while she decided to tank and even went after marlone & mara (she was only lvl 17) instead of healing. Regardless to say it got us both, and others in party, killed a couple of times even when it could have easily been avoided if she had the decensy to heal now and then. But i guess that's beneath her.

So what i'm trying to say is people respect other classes and try to help them as much as possible. Don't be selfish or stupid because everyone in the party, including you, will suffer. And clerics heal and revive as much as necessary/possible, that's what we're here for. (plus i love those angel wings)

[marasgal]

Like I said, I dont know about any one else, I am just talking for myself. I have done some KQ runs and seen parties where the others in the group, just keep rushing and dont give the cleric time to prepare.

One example I seen was where the whole group was at the Mini Mara bosses. The healer was resting up, No one called out who the MT was, and the warriors started the attack. The healer was trying to keep everyone alive, and didnt know who was the main person to keep alive. So alot of people died. (As a side note, there were only 2 healers there)

One person was calling the Healers noobs, because they let alot of people die.

No plan was made, no asked if anyone was ready, they just took off and the healer i guess was suppose to be psychic and automatically know who was the Main tank.

Its this type of stuff that gets people killed, and who got the blame? the healers.

So that is why I am saying what I am saying. Healers are only able to do so much, they are not God. They cant do it all.
I do understand that some clerics dont understand their role in the game, and they will learn, but dont blame all healers or call them noobs because its not always their faults.

[Lanwe]

I won't heal mages who run up ahead to kill stuff because they think they can tank its really silly of them to do so

I will heal a mage who pulled aggro and is trying to live different story.

but like Mara posted I made a warrior and I just started bringing max stones and hp pots with me because I would get 3-4 heals during the entire KQ with 2 priests in party -_-.

As for rezzing I dont mind. But if its during a boss how fast I rezz someone is determined by the number of clerics are present and if Invincible is up if not too bad you can wait since you died like a turd :D.

My best KQ so far though 10 clerics 1 fighter an archer and some people that were iether afk or who knows. We barely beat mara and malorne =p

[Kiseph]

Completely agree! OMG, this has all been said but I want to say my part of the story. This should be fun :]

I always restock both my hp and sp stones, why hp? Maybe I'm being chased by mobs and I can't stop and heal so its best to just use hp stones. I never carry pots on me cause I usually have stones. When with a fighter (an example) and the cleric is getting attacked, please help him/her so he/she can help YOU survive. If the cleric is dead, how are you gonna get revived or healed?

When shouting for a revive, give us your coordinates. I am NOT phsycic. If you are in my party then thats a different story. Either way you WAIT till I am able to revive you instead of shouting "res res res plzzz plzzz" every 5 seconds. There ARE some clerics that just pass by you without reviving, one reason could be they did not see you, another is they don't care. Now if you've been shouting every 5 seconds, don't get mad if we don't want to revive you. If you don't say anything until they pass you and ask NICELY then we will revive you.

During KQ, this is one of my most hated ones. We need time to heal! We need to know who the tank is! And ask us if we are ready! If someone says "No" then DO NOT PULL! I hate it when we are blamed when you were the one who did not LISTEN.

Here's another one. Lagging. Clerics can lag? OMG I didn't know that! Yes clerics can lag too! Do not yell at me cause I didn't heal you or revived you or survived, because you know what? I WAS NOT ABLE TO! I WAS LAGGING! Especially in Golden Hill, I lag sometimes. Nobody listens to me when I tell them I'm gonna relog to get rid of it. During GHKQ I rather have free allocation too, because when I mine I want my drops.

I'm not making much sense right now, I'm free writing XD Either way, the point is don't blame the clerics all the time, because it is not always our fault. I myself try the BEST I can to keep everyone alive and revive anyone who is dead. If I am able to rest, I will do so to be able to save money and keep sp stones. I will NOT rest during a boss, I know when I'm not supposed to. Don't tell me to hurry and use sp stones. I know how hard other classes have it, I've played every single class and I can't do a very good job except as a cleric. I admitt to that completely!

I am the healer type and nothing else. I will not be able to do anything but that.

Thanks for reading my unorganized post o.o;; Didn't even finish anything I wanted to say but I'm tired and sleepy XD

[qwter55]

You DONT have to heal JERKs... Point at them and laugh when they die..lol
*These are normally spoil brat... who order their Maid to wipe their butt and Parent to give them money when they want to buy stuff. DONT HEAL them.

You DONT have to heal MORONs.. Point at them and laugh when they die..lol
*these are players that keep getting into situation that tend to get them KILLED. Let them die if they so want to. DONT HEAL them.

IF you party is being a JACKA_SS to you (like free-looting, all loot goes to all those melee class spamming loot when the mobs almost die), leave the party, you are a cleric, cleric is ALMIGHTY ^.^... we can solo well enuf and every party want good HEALing Cleric... If you are one of those non healing CLERIC ...hahaha...*silent*...bwahahahaha ^.^ ... I have no pitty for you if they kick you. When in party, Cleric heal, if you dont wanna heal, login your dps alt character or go solo mobs or quest.

*For Mages and Archer who agro in KQ, I spam Heal_2 16(-8) SP spell, if he/she die... well too bad... you not suppose to agro...lol

*I played all class, so I understand each class perspective. This is from Cleric/Healer perspective... and YES there are bad healer out there ... I just cut them some slack (in my mind I would say newbie healer, they will learn and improve later...maybe).. and on my Warrior, Archer and Mage I dont expect heal, i trust my pots and stone. If I get heal, good if not ... no biggy.

[Superwolf]

I wanted to point at HP/SP stones. I myself use my stones for my personal situations.

-for example, if I got mobbed and can't keep myself alive by just healing or if I got stunned by a boss etc. Either way I wouldn't rush to anywhere without sitting and taking my time recovring "Good enough" amount of SP and gladly, my parties cooperated with me about it. btw, it's only 15~20 seconds to recover full SP if I'm not mistaking

Also, I didn't really have tough problems at KQs, but I had enough while grinding or at dungoens. Specially at Marlone's hideout.

Seriously, poeple needs to know how to move, how to lure/pull and know where are they fighting. It's irritating me how I walk through places where I aggro 2 monsters instead of 4 to have less fight and when I look behind I see someone pulled the whole monsters in the room. Or Mages/Archers get scared and run because he/she aggro'd the boss and end up aggroing the whole room, FFS stay at your place let us clerics and tankers deal with it it's our job to take control of these matters.

I suggest a guide explains the the "Party" role for each class in whatever situation.

My regards Rial.

[marasgal]

Well here are a few things I have learned.

#1) I notice in some KQ that the clerics all bunch up, BAD IDEA. Stay away from the other clerics. This way if Mara or marlone change aggro, they dont take out all the healers in one quick sweep. In fact everyone should spread out. This way if aggro shifts, few people get killed in one shot. If the aggro shifts on you, and you know the direction behind you is for a fact clear, then go ahead and move straight back, dont move towards other people. Unless your going to move back towards the tank. Infact that is the best idea, you might die, but the tank can easily take control of the situation again. If your moving away from the tank, it makes his job harder.

#2) Tanks skill Taunt isnt 100%, there is a slight chance of it failing. Some people disagree with me on this, but I have seen tanks use taunt and the boss ignored them. So use caution when casting, if you see the aggro was lost, and your a spell caster or archer, then stop casting. Give the tank a chance to regain aggro, then start casting again

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[Felter]

A lot of good points I wonder how many people will listen to them. :D

I just want to point out when I'm soloing and people come up to me and click for me to join there party, the chances of me agreeing with them are slim to none, now if you come up and ask me to party with you, there is a good chance that I will. Also when I've been soloing, it takes me a little while to get into the role of looking after your health, not just my own.

A party with 4 fighters and a single cleric is just asking for problems, as the cleric can only heal 1 person at a time.

In the KQ I hate it when a mage or archer aggros a mob then runs away from them, stop don't run, stand and fight ,take your punishment you started it after all, when you die let a cleric revive you, remember though to give them some time to do it, only use up one of your life's if you really have too. Don't call the clerics noobs, even if they are or it might just be you that they forget to revive.:p

[Tamlinari]

I have on a few occasions been in party with some really good players that have great leadership skills.
And you guys know who you are so I don't have to mention names.
They give me a bunch of SP pots and say "Ok you are with me and player x, you watch over us and the other cleric is with the other two."
Now that is great leadership in my opinion.
If you want constant maintenance for yourself and your partner then hand over some SP pots and or stones and share some loot and I will be happy to be your personal cleric.
And by the way, production of HP and SP stones really needs to be added as a skill for maybe lev 18 and above.
Just my opinion.

[reaper1990]

marasgal I'm gonna hijack your topic for a bit (well maybe hijack is too much of a strong word but anyway I just wanted to vent out an experience I just had during a KQ with a certain "unnamed" person). I decided to not name him/her coz i really dont want to start a flame... the whole incident just got me heated up that I decided to post it to give people an actual (yes there will be a evidence presented) scenario of what these other clerics are talking about. Oh and I'd like to apologize in advance 'coz this will be long and i applaud those who actually read this through the end. So lets start shall we?

I'm fairly new to the game (about a week, playing on and off) and decided to create a cleric as my main character. I started KQing at level 5 and seeing as how I only have the heal skill at that time I do what I can do - heal :p

Anyway fast forward a bit my character is now lvl 12 and I enter this KQ that is comprised mainly of fighters an archer or two and mages with me as the ONLY cleric... now im no newbie to forums (I make sure to read through game forums a bit before playing to see how the community is, and get a few tips) so I knew that this KQ stank of failure, and me knee deep in it if i don't play my cards right and keep people alive... To add to that, there seems to be a glitch in the KQ's recently, where I invite people to a party but they dont get the invite, and it shows up on my end that they rejected it... but being the kind soul that I am I decide to push on and heal people by randomly clicking on their characters as well as advising them to shout out in case they needed to be healed badly... I had a bit of confidence in my healing abilities as I fully empowered my heal to reduce SP and a point in cooling off reduction.

Fast forward again... we reach the top with no problems and little casualties mainly resulting from the usual people rushing, me lagging, or just plain wrong timing when my heal is in its 2.8sec cooling off period. Now when the top gate opened and I was on my merry way to catch up with the group asking "who's the tank?", I arrive at a shocking scene that no doubt comprises of all clerics' worst nightmare (i.e. the whole group just rushed in and 4 fighters are whacking away at King Slime).

Now the unnamed person I mentioned earlier was a fighter... and he/she boasted a while ago that he/she will tank king... (a biased note from me - honestly I doubted that he/she could tank seeing as how roughly 350+ hp wont do good in a fight against king me being the only cleric and the fact that other fighters had higher HP ranging from 400-500 in the group and obviously more def as based from the visual damage they were taking from king) anyway being the only source of instant HP i tried my best to heal most if not all those being damaged. Obviously you know where this is going... King spawns a mob... the fighters go down (unnamed person with them) and all hell breaks lose. Now you've got to hand it to the unnamed guy/gal coz he did stick with king, a few fighters mobbed too but scattered to help kill the mob and protect the mages and archers...

fast forward again... unnamed person DIES when kings hp is like on its last centimeter despite my best attempts at healing him as well as attending to all those who spam "heal me!!!" and to those kind fighters that kept the mob away from me. And so he gets nothing while the surviving group celebrates for being darn lucky given the situation...

Now this is where the heat starts (yes people that long part was just the intro :p) Unknown to me, unnamed person was actually whispering me from the time he/she died... evidence presented here is the actual conversation we had (ill place it on a link so that those interested can view it, I marked the lines of my reply so that it wont be too confusing. Oh and sorry for the crappy edit job)

Chat log:
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee141/tefnut3005/hotbloodedwhisperedited.jpg

Now I'm not saying I'm infallible but the messages he sent were too much to take... being the only cleric in the KQ i tried my best to satisfy everyone and keep them alive with my meager heal but in situations like these its obvious that my heal was being spread out too thin. Then comes along this guy/gal accusing me of not knowing my place and telling me how to play... and worse of all to heal him ONLY... arrrrggghhh.... thinking about it makes my blood boil all over again :mad:

Now to end off I want to make it clear to everyone that I'm not generalizing, I'm NOT saying that all fighters are like this or that only fighters behave like this, the last thing i want is a flame war. What I am saying is that I get pissed off at people who think the way the unnamed individual does as mentioned above... please :rolleyes:
I know that he/she lost pots and money (didn't I too? being the only cleric healing a party of 15 is no walk in the park for my coin bag)
I know he lost out on 1.9k exp (but isn't there more KQ's to come?)
I know he missed out on the gift box (now here he really lost out coz gift boxes don't grow on trees... but if he/she wants the 3 measly potion pots - yes I got a crappy reward - that came out if my box, by all means take it)
All i'm getting at is that before you point fingers at someone consider the situation. Plus its obvious that no individual can solo a boss with only one cleric. Heck the bratty fighter only had a def scroll on and King still took out almost half the HP bar per hit (excluding damage from mobs), how does one expect me to heal that? >_>
At that point I almost wanted to quit fiesta then and there... situations like that just suck all the fun out of it... but then again i calmed down and even managed to blame myself for being too nice when i could have just logged out and avoided the whole KQ... who knows the group could have still made it and I would have avoided being privately flamed... *SIGH* what a day... and what makes it more sad it that this is THE lowest rank KQ... i sure do hope that KQ's in the higher levels aren't this bad... guess ill just stay clear of KQ's that have the same settings from now on...

[Shaden]

I don't know your situation mainly because I have never experienced it yet. I am only level 22. I am a full END cleric with END rings. I have no stat'd items for int/spr but with Divinity 1 and 2 I have over 600 SP which is enough to get through Mara KQ or Gold Hill without a single rest easily.

I do have a large stock of 300 SP potions, but I never spent a cent on those, I farmed the items to make them.

If you haven't already, I'd suggest maxing out your Heal SP Reduc. empowerment and then do Recast. Both of mine are at 5 and I only use *maybe* ten pots [less if I decide to rest] in a constant fighting KQ.

In my opinion there is no need to rest inside a KQ, even if you are one in two/three clerics.

The only time I use stones are when I am desperate for health, seeing as my SP rarely drops under 200 points at a given time so I hardly ever use those.

Maybe I'm just not high enough to notice this behavior yet but it certainly isn't a problem to me. I heal everyone/everything, rez as soon as I can while throwing Invincible on the tanker, and keep buffs running. As I said, my problems are few.

I suggest making a good row stacked with SP pots and you really shouldn't have issues. Tier 1's are really simple to make and you can get a load of the materials early on.

Just my two cents. =3

[Ian]

I think there needs to be an AoE Party heal like in FlyFF :\ Healing everyone in your party can get tricky. That's why I maxed my cooldown reduction from 3 seconds to 2.1.

I do hate getting pushed around being a cleric. People are like "heal" "HEAL" "CLERIC NOOBS HEAL ME" "SOMEONE HEAL ME, DAMNIT"... frustrating when someone relies on someone else so much as they bully them around.

[Superwolf]

@reaper1990

uhm. wow that guy sucks hard he thinks he's the OnlyMightyUpperDumberTankerEver.

I didn't really notice the end of the KQ if it was success or not but if it was successful I'd give you 5 stars for it with honor. As I remember King slime's KQ was filled with mobs at the last boss place. It wasn't easy to survive the mobs if they targeted you with no help or party backing you up, considering you the only cleric. You'd get confused either taking care of yourself or the tankers which risky.

I might start a topic for bosses fights in the cleric's point of view which needs other classes thoughts too, though I'm sleepy now =x