Full SPR -- Full INT Which one?

[Slyfighter121]

Which one is recommended and better overall??

[Soul.of.Trance]

My mage is 1:1 Spr/Int. try that out if you want.

[hostess619]

thats tough one because ive put 15 points into imt and honestly i dont notice any difference untill you buy the damage upgrade scrolls from the mage npc so if i could reset my points i would go all sp


just my opinion.......

[joedoe]

i'm betting in a mage full INT.
his now level 21 and does more damage then usual.
when i party with a cleric nothing can stop me... well, almost nothing.
haven't tryed a full spr mage but going to do so later.

[retardz]

i voted full SPR but i never tried a INT mage though. if u wana see how full SPR looks, look here:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u123/whatda321/screenshot111.jpg

might help u choose

[Angelfallen88]

I go with INT but that's just my Opinion on the subject

[ultraraven]

I say full int because isnt higher constant damage better then random highs(criting)

[silverark]

yer i was thinking about full int too with simialr reasons of constant dmg better.....
having a high constant dmg is good, and if it crits!!! dmg is even highER!
>.<

[takixd]

id go for full SPR

ive added int..but 10 atm..rest spirit..
target [on lvl100]: INT+ 40 SPR+ 60

im kinda having second thoughts..i think ill go for all SPR..
if there would be a stat reset i'd go for pure SPR..


IGN: Dalamar

[MewMewLina]

I'd say SPR.

[soysauce2rice]

I put SPR for critical hitting. It's +0.2% for critical chance per 1 free stat.

[Rooter75]

I am lvl 35 full int with spr gear and I love it. I seem to crit all the time and I can spam lvl 1 skills in Collapsed Prison and do around 220-320 dmg depending on skill used. Keep in mind that is lvl 1 skills with super fast cooldown. so yeah it is fun. You get 2 full int mages in a good party and exp is crazy fast. I do love the crits but it seems fairly frequent anyway without going full spr.

[metalkalas]

I got with Full int :D i just love using staffs >.> Wands isn't really my thing..

[Ergenic]

Free Stat Points

For every point you invest in, you get:
STR = +1.2dmg
END = +.1%block(1~50)/.05%block(51+), +.5def, +5hp.
DEX = +.2%evade(1~50)/.1%evade(51+), +.3%aim(1~33)/.2%aim(34~67)/.1%aim(68+)
INT = +1.2Mdmg
SPR = +.2%crit(1~25)/.1%crit(26+), +.5Mdef, +5sp

If the max level is 100, then this is how a PURE build would look like.
STR = +138dmg
END = +8.25%block, +57.5def, +575hp
DEX = +16.5%evade, +21.2%aim
INT = +138Mdmg
SPR = +14%crit, +57.5Mdef, +575sp

* this is assuming that from level 1~100 you get a free stat point each level, and that you received the +5 free stat points from the first job advance, and +10 free stat points from the second job advance.
* this data was taken from an old bright kingdom database, but the info show here still seems current.
* part of the Snow Guild Reference Series by FlyingSnow
This is taken from the fiestafan wiki...

Maybe this will help you decide, basically it says if you go full INT: +138 magic damage. If you go full SPR: 14% extra chance to crit. I take it the crit rates are what most of you are interested in...

If your going for a pure build, then all INT would be my choice, because constant higher damage in the end ALWAYS leads to a better DPS. Besides if you crit with highest INT, YOU CRIT HARD!

I don't flow that way though... this is my build http://www.outspark.com/fiesta/forums/showthread.php?t=13185 maybe it's usefull for some of you...

[Patchouli]

If your purpose is to increase damage only, then INT.

[hoshino]

+138 damage sounds tempting...

Until you realize that mobs and other players have something called "damage drop" that massively reduces any gains from base damage less than hundreds. The fireball you thought was going to do 500+ damage is actually doing only 140. Unless you crit. And reducing the spell level, which should have reduced damage by at least 300, is actually now only making the same skill do just a few less points of damage than when it was higher. Interesting, isn't it?

Now let's not forget the other lovely derived stat SPR gives us: M.Def. It's grrrreeeat. It seems often overlooked until you start fighting magic mobs and pvping magic users. And then you feel the difference.

Unless this +138 were a hard number immune to damage reduction, its utility is somewhat in question.

[Patchouli]

Damage from added points of INT is immune to damage reduction (as is STR), you can test it by stacking up several points, on a new mage, getting it to say, lvl 20, buying a lvl 1 staff, which has only 1 pt. of damage range, using a high aim scroll and shooting a red mob (with a little help from some friends), then putting the points into INT and trying again until you hit.

[tastemyfist]

how offen does a full SPR Mage Crit? is it constant? X:
and is it a good build for PvP? or guildwars X:
Just wonderin. lawlz

[tastemyfist]

how offen does a full SPR Mage Crit? is it constant? X:
and is it a good build for PvP? or guildwars X:
Just wonderin. lawlz

[Shadowfiend]

I recommend put only 5 points in spr and all others in int. Cause you'll need more dmg then mana .:cool:

[Lolox]

hmm right now I'd go with the full SPR, btu maybe later they could boost int making it more important? dunno, for now I think Full SPR is better

[PsychoRomeo]

Personally, I think it's worth it to get 25 or so Spirit... It really depends on your style.

[hoshino]

Damage from added points of INT is immune to damage reduction (as is STR)

That's the thing, Patchouli. My current main is technically my 3rd mage. Even with what you said granted, I did not find the damage from INT boost appreciable enough to make much of any difference. All I know is that the Colls and Shrek stunt doubles don't seem to notice much... and they're supposedly midgame mobs, for crying out loud. That's why you hear a lot of people complaining that INT is an underpowered stat.

STR would have been in that boat except that for melee characters, the damage boost provided by that stat is significant by comparison (and some fighters don't care as much for it even then). Not so for mages and INT, who already do significant damage and making that boost somewhat... bleh. To top it off, like STR, that damage is all INT does for your mage. In that regard, pure INT even loses to pure STR.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to do more damage whenever possible. But by personal taste, the pure INT route just doesn't give that oomph you'd expect. Having a decent amount of SPR seems to give me more bang for my buck, as it affects more than one thing. Like PsychoRomeo was saying, I agree that at least 25 points invested in SPR is the way to go.

[PufftheMagicDragon]

I'm gonna make a Full int, but put some spr if I think I need it

[Patchouli]

That's the thing, Patchouli. My current main is technically my 3rd mage. Even with what you said granted, I did not find the damage from INT boost appreciable enough to make much of any difference. All I know is that the Colls and Shrek stunt doubles don't seem to notice much... and they're supposedly midgame mobs, for crying out loud. That's why you hear a lot of people complaining that INT is an underpowered stat.

STR would have been in that boat except that for melee characters, the damage boost provided by that stat is significant by comparison (and some fighters don't care as much for it even then). Not so for mages and INT, who already do significant damage and making that boost somewhat... bleh. To top it off, like STR, that damage is all INT does for your mage. In that regard, pure INT even loses to pure STR.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to do more damage whenever possible. But by personal taste, the pure INT route just doesn't give that oomph you'd expect. Having a decent amount of SPR seems to give me more bang for my buck, as it affects more than one thing. Like PsychoRomeo was saying, I agree that at least 25 points invested in SPR is the way to go.

My main is my first mage, although I made two throw-away mages after it to experiment with, after my "empower firebolt damage 5" blunder (this is a less bad deal on non-INT mages) so that I wouldn't foul up anything more.

I conditionally agree with 25 SPR, but I strongly disagree with the timing of it. If you only think about the damage aspect, in order for the damage from 25 SPR to be equal to the damage from 25 INT, you have to be able to consistantly fire shots that do 600 damage, since then 5% chance to double damage is, over time, the same as +30 damage always. I currently don't come anywhere near to 600 damage on a monster I'd possibly want to kill (in yellow and above), so I think putting in the SPR early just unnecessarily hurts yourself with the timing. Unfortunately, I'm currently thinking that the timing where it does become useful is somewhere around level 80, which we can't even reach yet.

While SPR gives multiple things, I don't really feel that any of them really help you, as the SP pool available to a mage is enormous already, and versus a magic using monster, all you're effectively doing is reducing some of their damage in exchange for reducing some of your (already poor vs. magic using monster) own.

With regard to the Prison Mobs, compared to a Full SPR mage with both of us at level 40, using NPC unlicenced weapons, the SPR mage was hitting for around ~175 per basic level shot, I was doing around ~230 per basic shot, and a 25 SPR 20 INT mage would do approximately ~200 per basic shot, granted these are all red mobs at the time so it'd probably favour the INT more, but I do think (at least from what I've seen) that most people end up skipping level 30-40ish areas, and to me, +15% always is overall superior to +100% 5% of the time.

To be fair, that is a rather simplified model and there are other considerations, like Lightning Bolt, and higher levels of spells are comparatively worth more for the SPR mage than the INT mage, although then the SP consumption for the SPR mage would be way higher...

[Srit1]

Higher spirit may not give you much but the higher power pool means less down time if resting in your hut if your farming not spaming stones.. and crits the only thing tha scales with level intel sure dont.

[Antonius]

Pure SPR build saves you a lot of $$$, since you use less stones because of your high mana pool.

[Silentdan]

hmm, a tricky one.
my build as it stands now is 5 end 16 int and 5 spr, personally, Intelligence is extremly beneficial,
you could be a few hp off killing a monster, and those few extra intelligence points could make all the difference
Spr saves $$$? look at the mages skills, they get the passive skill to increase their SP, isn't that enough?
the game even says a mage's main skill is intelligence, AOE mages? this game isn't meant for that, mages follow their streotype strongly in this game, hard hitter, but can't take a licking, and honestly, skill spamming is good, and i rely on constantivity than chance.

[PufftheMagicDragon]

I'm gonna go full int for quick killing

[Talkius]

Well...I have made a lvl 22 INT Mage and soon will get my SPR up to 22 as well...

Once, I do, I will post the Characters stats with same gear to relate the differences...

[Antonius]

This isn't a DPS argument. Rather it is a money over time argument.


-SP stones recover a percentage of your maximum SP pool (roughly 50% of it).

-When grinding, mages spam level 1 MM (3SP ea, no Lower SP Cost empower) and level 1 FB (7SP ea, no Lower SP Cost empower) usually.

-So, granting you have 1600 SP. When you deplete your initial pool, you use a stone, which raises it back up to ~800, which then means, for just 1 stone, you can spam 800/(7+3) more of those level 1 skills.

-What's more, if you're grinding off red mobs (CP, usually), mobs drop 60c loots at most everytime. So, you're earning typically..

So, to wrap it up.
SPR --> increased mana pool --> higher SP recovered per stone --> increased spammability per stone --> less stones used over time --> less restone times (relative to grindmates) --> save $$$.

PS. Wisdom does increase your mana pool, too, but not as much as a full SPR build with Wisdom. :D

[Patchouli]

This isn't a DPS argument. Rather it is a money over time argument.

So, to wrap it up.
SPR --> increased mana pool --> higher SP recovered per stone --> increased spammability per stone --> less stones used over time --> less restone times (relative to grindmates) --> save $$$.


A flaw with that argument is that it works both ways. For example:

INT --> increased damage --> less spells cast to kill the same monster --> less SP used per monster --> less stones used over time --> save $$$.

+ faster kill time --> less damage taken --> less stones used by clerics --> less restones required (for the entire party) --> more exp and more drops in the same timeframe.

Also, if you are looking to save money, the most economical way would be to buy lifetap, and to give the cleric in the party a stack of tier 1 SP potions to cover for healing your lifetaps, or agreeing to split their stone cost, since by using lifetap you can convert the cleric's SP to the mage's SP at roughly a 1:10 ratio.

[Skizzy]

Full SPR... for now :]

I have a level 49 soon 50 mage with full spr build and have compared to many other mages etc and full spr is the best.... for now! let me explain:

Int~ Gives you a slight boost in dmg
Spr~ Gives you higher sp pool, crit rate, mdef

Untill level 25 the biggest stat booster is SPR (best overall) then the stats change i'm sure most of you know this already :] The reason going pure spr for now is because 3 stat+ from spr is way better than a small 1 stat+ from int, the amount of constant damage difference you will get with a little more int does not outweigh even random critting, int multiplier per level is really enough to keep you good in int. Only time full spr will die out and not be the best build is when Cash Shop is released because... (and this is what i'm doing myself :] ) when Cash Shop opens there will be high crit costumes and such worth way more than a pure spr build so!!! you use a restat (yes will be coming with CS also!) and turn your build pure int and use a crit costume to make up for the no spr :]

Yea it's an expensive way to do it i agree but if you can afford it following the above way is best for now and later.. i hope this helps some mages :]

Take it easy..
Skizzy. <3
(Just woke up so sorry if i havn't explained 100% clear but u get the idea :] )

[SweetLavender]

It depends on your class

[Talkius]

It depends on your class

This is a Mage discussion about Mages, therefore, we are discussing Mages...

[Jlyons]

I'm not a big fan of either the pure intelligence mage or the pure spirit mage, but... if I had to choose, I'd take the pure spirit mage for three reasons:

1. You already get a nice amount of intelligence per level compared to spirit.
2. It adds to your total sp pool.
3. It adds to magic defense, which is useful against some monsters.
4. It adds to your critical rate, which boosts your DPS.

Reason 4, specifically the DPS part (not the critical rate part), is all int gives you. Spirit gives you more of a benefit than intelligence, especially for the first 25 points. So basically, under the choices you're giving with your question, I'd take full spirit over full int any day of the week.

[nat2192]

my lvl 17 mage i got 3 spr lol wasnt sure witch way i was gunna add it but ya full int relyabl damg is far better then random crits ~!

[DESOUL]

My suggestion is to get full SPR, while i've played i made a 20 INT wiz then noticed it was usuless and switched to full SPR since for SPR you get Crit,Mana,Magic Defence and Mana Regen Rate, while for every 1 INT you get ONLY 1 dmg and each 5 int you get 3 dmg (meaning 5 int = 7 dmg)wich is pretty useless compared to SPR that is 1 SPR = (5 mana or so, don't rember, 0.5 Magic def, 0.2% Crit)

[SELECTuserid]

but if you have 2 and I have 2 then I hit you for 2 and you hit me for .5 twice, who wins.


You guys are thinking so low lvl. Not to mention this whole thread is here to point out balance problems, I am going to stay full INT because at lvl 30 its a bit lacking. But at 59 or even 70 after cap rise, I think the SPRs are gonna have to spend some cash to catch up.

[takixd2]

err just to contribute a data <3

my mage is almost pure SPR lvl49 atm..10 "wasted" on int
ill compare it with a lvl 51 mage..pure int..with 10 pts on SPR too.. [hi cath <3]

target: Blue Trumpy found in Ancient Elven woods, Uruga

skill: magic missile lvl 1
weapon: INT-mage = staff lvl 50
SPR-mage = wand lvl 40 (GK)

damage: INT = 195 ave.
SPR = 135 ave.

this is the raw data..i just would like to add..my MM crits a hell lot than the int mage <3 [hehe hi cath] PS. ofcourse her crits do more dmg.. <3

..i have tried..my MM crits 23/100 tries ..there ya go.. PS. 100 consecutive tries of MM lvl1 on Blue Trumpy's too.. <3

i hope this can help you mages out there confused about your build.. <3

IGN: Dalamar
Srvr: Apoline

[Flashrave]

has anyone ever considered a partial END build for mages? were discussing it here:

http://outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15060

Thoughts?

[Jerath]

No need. Full INT mage is the way to go. i'm 6 in SPR and 40 in INT (put a few in at start, regret it) and if i have a cleric with me I can TANK and kill a Karisian Templar in about 20 seconds. Just me attacking. I use scrolls so you need that production skill. I assume most do. So you don't really need END in your build once you get a good cleric with you. Even drastically lower level clerics can assist you, and there are too many clerics to count who wanna grind CP at a low level. Keep in mind i'm a level 42 but that means a mage can tank harkans with a cleric in the mid 30's. that's ALOT of exp and fast with a heavy INT build. Trrrrrruuuuuuust me, seriously. my 2 cents. plus as extra proof that this is a good build, i was level 40 at 15% at the start of today and now am 42 at 1%

[TaintedHeir]

I'm full int(with 1 error) and i love it.. i can go to urgua at lvl 34 and be an assist to my team... soooo we will see what lvl 40+ brings this full int mage... ( i can bring down the mobs in goblin camp just as fast as a lvl 47 cleric.. dont believe me ask hammer)


Tainted_Heir

[HazyLep]

Ok Personaly You Know BLah BLah im a Noob Yes But... Out Of All The MMORPG's I Pla Fiestas is an alright top notch on my list in my opinion i agree full int all the way

[KireiYosei]

I'd do half and half o.O My mage is half and half. But soon I'm going to be doing more INT than SPR. I already have more SPR than most mages my level.

[DemonEyeKyo]

was full int in cb and tryied full spr (except 10 pts)in ob... im really happy with my crit rate.... my npc wand ... really sucky have 8% crit cause of maxed lic on it + my 7% crit +my 2% earring=17% i crit like crazy... if i had a chief guard wand would be 10% crit with maxed lic... and if fiesta shop ever go out i can finnaly buy thing for + crit.... so maybe i could 25% crit... n with lvl increase ill crit more... kinda wastled 10 pts in int at first though

DemonEyeKyo
lvl 57 mage

[Lunine]

Well, Spr is nice. So is int, But spr past 25 is useless. I run on a 25 spr/Rest int build. And it's great. As to why spr is useless past 25.. Well, you stop getting 0.2% increase in crit.

[retardz]

with all the damage reduction higher level mobs have, i can only count on the criticals. full SPR for me

[willwong]

Well spr if you want to be stable and normal
BUT i you want to go owned the fighters, go for full INT =P
I just have an issue with the fighters

[seg162]

Clerics, they are gifted in intelligence, so i say you should lv up in SP:)

[gamergod390]

i went for full sprt to get a massive amount of sp...once you have enough sp to not have to use potions that much i would put into int...it worked for me!:D

[Roxias]

Well, Spr is nice. So is int, But spr past 25 is useless. I run on a 25 spr/Rest int build. And it's great. As to why spr is useless past 25.. Well, you stop getting 0.2% increase in crit.
This was a well known fact throughout this entire topic. That is why the debate is up about going FULL spr.

[ninjabogie]

hmmm well i just started playing and im prob going to do all int.
then mabey ill try all spr.:cool:

[SpeedBurner]

INT gets the win at the start, but it'll eventually lose to SPR.

Going on the Lv100 example...
Say two identical mages (Aside from one being Full SPR and the other Full INT) need 100 hits to smack down a wall, which disregards how much damage is caused before it falls. They both deal 900 damage after defences and what not.
INT:
Base + Bonus * 100 = Total Damage
(900 + 138 ) * 100 = 103800
SPR:
(Uh, correct me if I'm wrong on this, criticals do double damage?)
14% means (statistically) every 14 hits of a hundred will do double damage. So:
DoubleBase * 14 + Base * 86 (remaining number of hits) = Total Damage
1800*14 + 900*86 = 102600

So, statistically speaking, the mage will need to be able to deal over 900 before the critical attack rate of SPR beat the INT bonus. Of course, criticals are chance, so if you're lucky, it might not matter.
Keep in mind I didn't include natural SPR and INT gains in this, which could change the results. This is just a basic, basic calculation.

Also, you can't disregard the MDefence bonus. Handy stuff.
The SP Bonus is all right. But, I don't think it's something people should consider too heavily on (Who can't afford one more spirit stone?)

[Roxias]

The maximum level in the game is currently 59. There is no proof that after beta level 100 will be the cap.

[SpeedBurner]

Which is why I said "Going on the Lv100 example".

[Jerath]

way to pick apart things that don't need to be picked apart there Roxias....... twice almost in a row.... how about finding something else to do instead of putting random people down, wich actually just makes you look pathetic and nitpickey (anyone else agree with that?) Oh, and don't explain to me the irony that i'm doing the same thing you like to do, for I am well aware :) ta-ta!

[elgintidus15]

but if you have 2 and I have 2 then I hit you for 2 and you hit me for .5 twice, who wins.


You guys are thinking so low lvl. Not to mention this whole thread is here to point out balance problems, I am going to stay full INT because at lvl 30 its a bit lacking. But at 59 or even 70 after cap rise, I think the SPRs are gonna have to spend some cash to catch up.

Hes is so right! I think that all the classes are very unbalanced becuase of the stats...when the actualy version comes out I hope that they fix the stats or im just leaveing the game and playing SoS.

[Yarimapirate]

From a math stand point (before everything like M.Defense etc)

1 Sp = Mana + .2 Crit
1 STR/Int = 1.2 (factoring 1 every 5 str/int)

so thats means at 600 damage before M.Defense and stuff
1 SP = 1 Intel damage wise
600*.2=1.2 bonus damage average

So to figure out if its worth intel or SP is simple from this point
Add your spell damage to you M.Damage
If the Average is greater then 600 then SP is officially better to get damage
If the Average is Below 600 then it is hard to say which is better (if you wait your damage will naturally carry it self above 600 just by leveling and gear)

At 30 my mage is already nearing 600 damage and i only have 10 points into intel

As a point to the Spirit stone topic an larger mana pool seems to regain alot more from one spirit pool then a small one

so somebody with a 1000 mana pool vs a 1500 mana pool would get like 500 while the other gets 750 thats 3:2 mana stone ratio and after a while it really adds up in stones

[mavZz]

U should add an extra sector "Hybrid" :D I'm hybrid and I'm loving it.

[retardz]

heres an update. im lvl40 now

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u123/whatda321/screenshot190.jpg

dont forget that SPR also adds mdef which is useful vs those vivi and mage type mobs

critical goes up by .02 till +25, then goes up by .01

thats my damage with a regular lvl30 staff, cant afford lvl40 yet

notice how i have no stones. the only stones i ever used, were the ones i got from when i made my mage lol

[misrael]

i play full int .. if u feel lack of mana i have some tips :p i max out only fire .. dmg and cooldown of magic missile and use fire high lvl spell and others 1st lvl .. i have bounded max lvls on shift + key for them in case i need them. it cost a little mana and i can shoot missile again and again and again so fast

[satanacus]

Full INT with SPR rings - sure at low lvls rings are , well .. crap, but when you start to get to 30+ rings give a significant boost to stats. Yes I am aware these ring bonuses do not apper on the Free stat list, but the effects are still there.

So yeah, full INT for basic power and SPR rings for added SP and crits - oh yeah let's not forget earrings too +SP & +crit%. I don't see any earrings give me + INT stats so going full SPR is kinda stupid to me, plus you can always use mentality scrolls if you really drain your SP that fast. See..there's alot of ways to boost SP and crit%, but not much for INT. So makes sense to go full INT.

[oldfolks]

i think the best build is spr to 25 then rest to int for the time being. i am pure int and it dont seems good dealing with GW cri is very important to kill someone in gw

[s3ngoku]

Full INT with SPR rings - sure at low lvls rings are , well .. crap, but when you start to get to 30+ rings give a significant boost to stats. Yes I am aware these ring bonuses do not apper on the Free stat list, but the effects are still there.

So yeah, full INT for basic power and SPR rings for added SP and crits - oh yeah let's not forget earrings too +SP & +crit%. I don't see any earrings give me + INT stats so going full SPR is kinda stupid to me, plus you can always use mentality scrolls if you really drain your SP that fast. See..there's alot of ways to boost SP and crit%, but not much for INT. So makes sense to go full INT.

FYI, SPR rings does not gives crit bonus..the ring that gives significant bonuses are END (does not gives block rate bonus for shield user) and DEX, Int rings doesnt gives as good dmg as the free stats..but you can still go ahead and use it too

[Stragy]

full spr! why? because u get mp, magic def, and high critical hit rate!
Critical hit rate makes up for dmg!

[Ekairi]

full spr! why? because u get mp, magic def, and high critical hit rate!
Critical hit rate makes up for dmg!

I was trying for that type of build but found it too hard in the beginning.
I'm actually going to try to add a little bit of int then a lot more spr.
(So I'm going for more of a mix but backwards.)

[FairyFlora]

I say go with Full SPR! :)

[BlackScales]

Why dont u ask a GM? They know some stuff.

[Doncer]

Anyone who thinks full spr build shouldn't be shot and put down for how in pain it is never botherred to simultaneously lvl both a full int and a full spr at the same rate. Furthermore they've obviously never botherred to ASK people over 40 that are mages what their builds are and how much they hit then compare the answers.

I did.. lvl 20 INT build and lvl 20 SPR build. INT build on average killed things 2-3 casts faster. Once in a while the SPR build would get those multiple crits in of course.. then if that happened INT only killed things 1-2 casts faster than SPR. But it was always better.

Then one day I was in a party with 2 mages and found out one was full int and other was full spr so out of curiousity I asked them what dmg they were doing. Int build when calculated out was doing more damage which by itself would've made me say throw the spr build away... but it was the lvl difference that truly crucified the spr build. The spr build that did less dmg was lvl 47 and the int build that did more dmg was 41. Int build player was 6 lvls lower and yet still was outdamaging the spr build.

Furthermore the SPR build had a higher chance of critting on their first hit than the INT build which meant it had a higher chance of stealing aggro off puller if attacked before tank taunted it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. "Only good things about ANY class putting stats into SPR is the m. def and the more economical use of SP stones."

[SpeedBurner]

Maybe it was the 'quips.

[Doncer]

If you want to believe that to make you feel better about your full spr char feel free.

We'll totally forget about the fact that I lvled two mages up to the exact same lvl 20 one full int and one full spr and the int build killed twice as fast which backs up the same data.

[SpeedBurner]

Did I even state I was a full SPR, or supported them?

I even ran a calculation of my own some early pages back that said a Lv100 full INT and Lv100 full SPR don't compare until damage reaches beyond 900 after magic defence is taken into account.

I'm just saying, equips can make a difference. It's what most people are hoping to be more distinct in future versions of the game so that a full INT can get some SPR from items, and vice-versa.

[Doncer]

Alright, my mistake for jumping to assumptions. I'm just so used to pointing out the bad parts of a build on games and then suddenly being jumped by what seems to be every single user of said build who try to come up with any excuse they can get to avoid admitting what I said about their builds.

I've heard everything from "just wait it'll get better in next patch" to "you're just mad because blah blah" to "you just think that because you got better equips than me" (that one sounds very similiar to your original response so I responded back the way I did) to "shut up you liar I can beat you any day" to "it might seem so now but that's because no one is high enough lvl yet" amongst others.

I shouldn't have assumed you were amongst that throng and for that I apologise. Like I said I'm just so used to it by now that your similiar response triggerred my "oh god its another of THOSE" response in turn.

[sebassold]

is it just me or is it weird that no1 mentions the extra sp u get from being a full spr mage as an advantage???

[Dragonflo]

Well... u problably dont c any difference beacause ur not high enough lev... but at later levels all those added INT points will add up... from experience full INT can add almost 1000 damage

[SpeedBurner]

is it just me or is it weird that no1 mentions the extra sp u get from being a full spr mage as an advantage???

It is an advantage, it's just not that BIG of an advantage. Resting and stone recovery is scaled to your SP anyway. It normally only adds one or two more casts of your big flashy spell, so it isn't too big of a deal.

It IS more economical however (for stone users), but the primary concern of mages is what makes enemies die faster.

[s3ngoku]

Well... u problably dont c any difference beacause ur not high enough lev... but at later levels all those added INT points will add up... from experience full INT can add almost 1000 damage

Are you sure it will add to 1000damage? According to FiestaWiki, INT = +138Mdmg is the maximum you get if you go full Int, and im sure int dmg doesnt scale with level..

Ledah
Lv58 Mage

[zarlok]

Are you sure it will add to 1000damage? According to FiestaWiki, INT = +138Mdmg is the maximum you get if you go full Int, and im sure int dmg doesnt scale with level..

Ledah
Lv58 Mage

Umm, I'd suspect it would scale with level, or what would be the point? + a couple damage won't mean much when you have a 300 damage weapon.

[CursedMagus]

That needs to be fixed. When adding INT you should be doing a lot more damage than what you do. But all those numbers and what not that are posted all over the place are just things people assume using math. The extra SP isn't worth it. With just 25 SPR you only get 125 SPR which is about... one powerful spell? Yeah, not worth it when you could have extra damage added to that spell. And the critical rate? Don't get me started. Even with a 5% critical weapon, 1% critical Earring, and 5% critical from SPR you've still only got an 11% chance out of 100% to get a critical. The odds are NOT that good. Besides, where as you may get lucky and do double damage every so often, i'll be out damaging you with every spell I cast. And if I get a critical i'll do even more damage than you. So pure INT is the best way to go.

[violence]

thats tough one because ive put 15 points into imt and honestly i dont notice any difference untill you buy the damage upgrade scrolls from the mage npc so if i could reset my points i would go all sp


just my opinion.......

you dnt notice any difference cause as you lvl you fight hardermonsters if you had not upped your int you would not be doing the same damage as you did before instead try this i have a tank mage 2 int 2 end 1 spr at lvl 22 i can solo mara in sea of greed so long as she doesnt stun but what character can solo mara at lvl 22 and survive stun lol

[TheFalcon]

What about END mage???
assume 2 mages in lvl 59 pvp
pure int vs pure end
pure int hp near 1200,pure end hp near 1700 or more
even if pure int hit difference with 50 dmg end mage will win cuz in high mdef damage is converge,u can notice this on mobs(fire lvl 1 and last lvl???much diff in written dmg,but on mob just twice as dmg)

and i can tank too(no need of tanker in grinding,may be needed in hunting boss or so..
im lvl 55 mage,i can tank up to 8 mobs in cp,and kill them very fast

in pvp,end mage can kill archer,but int mage die from archers
int mage die single hit from axe,end mage die 2 hits from axe
so long i increase 3 end 1 spr

[Neosapien]

Full INT vs. full SPR for mages is a matter of level cap.

I'm not going to even start doing the calculations nor am I going to generate an algorithm, but EVENTUALY the SPR build will match and then surpass the INT build. However, this point may be far beyond what the level cap of the game will ever reach.

This is simply because of the unbalanced adjustment to critical hits. Mages gain a great deal of INT each level already. Each "bonus" point you put into INT doesn't make a great deal of difference in comparrison. However, for every X points you put into SPR you gain 1% on your chance to score a critical hit (depends on how many points you have already put in). I'm sure all of this has been stated several times so I will leave it at that.

Imagine a level 100 mage. 100 bonus points (will be a few more for class upgrade and possibly some advanced quest rewards or something) into INT when the base is going to be around 350 is NICE. Those same points to SPR would increase your chance of critical hit by something like 12.5%. Add that to your weapon's base critical chance and you could be scoring critical hits on one hit out of every five or so.

IMPORTANT: I could be wrong, but as of yet it does not appear that the SPR you gain naturally each level affect your critical chance at all. That makes bonus points into SPR the supreme determinant of critical chance.

That being said, 100 points still may not be enough to pass the threshold where the raw damage from the bonus INT is outweighed by the high critical range of the bonus SPR. Then again it may be.

Finally, someone asked why bonus SP from spirit is never factored as a benefit. That is because SP is so cheap and easy to restore quickly.

There is no doubt that for most of a mage's life bonus INT will benefit them far more than SPR. However, it IS possible that full SPR build mages will eventually overpower their INT based brethren. But not necessarily, we will have to wait until someone maxes out each of them and compares them.

. . . And then (because SPR mages will be uber broken at endgame level) there will be a patch to change the way SPR affects critical chances and INT builds will be far superior at all levels. lol

P.S. I use INT build because I seriously doubt the number of bonus points your character will get for it's entire career will be enough to break the threshold.

[Jerath]

no one seems to realize that putting the stats into whatever respect influences how the character grows. Yes, putting alot of int into the build doesn't affect the free stats that much, but every time you lvl, you get 5 more int (usually). now if you had that all in end or spr the increase of int per lvl would decrease very much, and the stats gained at your levelup would make a completely different build. I don't think many people think about that

[Haiyastan]

ok for all that info just follow
http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19713
you should survive

[Dawnslight]

Pure Int.;)

[Katsi]

Either 1:1 or 2 Int: 1Spr

[Dawnslight]

Either 1:1 or 2 Int: 1Spr

On my mage Im using pure Int. with spr. gear :)

[CaStdOwN]

I'm Lv22 on Bijou server. Currently i've been balancing my stats between Int + End.

My reasons for this are:

Int = M-Dmg
End = HP, Defence

Mages generally are like a glass hammer, u hit them they shatter, but if not you'll get hammered. I feel SPR is pointless since MDEF, Max MP.. Ok well thats all good if ur fighting a mage but what about when it comes to Archers the next best rival? Defence and HP allows u to fight all round classes aswell as solo better due to taking less dmg. Having more MP via SPR is pointless, i've got MP pots what do i care. MDEF is ok.. but well i'm sure ill survive without it.

[Alones]

Full INT, because it makes me feel smart, S-M-R-T smart.

[cwayne]

I have a well rounded mage but if I had to choose... SPR.

[redjumpsuitapparatus]

I voted full spr, I think only end and spr are worth the bonus stat. the + 1 point per level is most useful if they'll be adding more HP and SP which are more recognizable than added damage or magic attack.

[SamusNerd]

full int will do more dmg overall

[sam48768771]

well im a full END mage lol
lvl 37 with 1000hp

[Tackey]

unless you can do 800 dmg without crit average, dont touch spr

[KY_Jelly]

do the math. by level 50 full spr is a bigger damage booster than full int.

add the SP boost on top of that and anyone who plans on playing long term really shouldn't bother with full int.

[Doncer]

KY you're wrong. Full SPR beats full INT by lvl 50 when casting spells on lvl 20 monsters or even lvl 30 monsters. But the moment you come across monsters with enough defenses it stops helping and becomes a detriment.

I've done the math on one of these threads (I believe it was this one and you never botherred to read it but whatever) but I'll do it again for you.

Let's say you stop at 5% crit bonus. This means that compared to someone with 0% crit bonus you'll get an extra 5 crits out of 100. Let's say you do 200 dmg with magic missile tier 1 to monsters of a high enough lvl to be worth grinding off of at a set level. This means 95 times you would do 200 dmg and 5 times you would do 400 dmg or a total of 19,000 dmg from regular hits and 2,000 dmg from crits for a total of 21,000 dmg. A full end or dex build would only get a total of 20,000 dmg so a crit build gains 1k for every 20k dmg over a defensive build. A full int build on the other hand will be doing more dmg every single attack than the 200 base dmg. Let's say its just 30 extra dmg (its more but I can't be botherred to recheck the exact figures for this argument again) 230 dmg a hit means that it will score 23,000 dmg. That's 3k extra INT build dmg for every 20k base dmg as opposed to only gaining 1k extra dmg with the SPR build.

The _reason_ why INT build outperforms SPR build for dmg is that mages are stuck using tier 1 of spells rather than the advanced forms. With enough base dmg the crit build would eventually overpower the power build. The thing is that the mage staffs although giving improved dmg over lower level staffs don't give _enough_ to allow for the base dmg to overpower the lost extra dmg from putting points in crit instead of power.

What makes the crit build even worse is that the crit build gets less effective at higher training of it while the power build continues to grow at the same rate. This makes it take even more base dmg being critted to make it worth the lost extra dmg over the top. So someone that stops at 5% where the +.2% point ends would only need approximately 600 base dmg being critted those 5 times out of 100 to overpower the lost extra power, someone that continued to put points in gaining only +.1% will need slightly more every single time they put points in it instead of into power. By the time it gets to a +10% crit chance you need 800 base dmg instead of 600.

INT build will always overpower the SPR build as long as the mage's spell system is broken so that tier 1 spells cause more dps than going with the higher tier spells due to the huge cooldowns on higher tiers. If it ever becomes dps feasible to use the highest tiers _presumably_ enough dmg would occur that someone with +25 spr would get that 600+ dmg every single cast and that someone with +75 spr would get that 800+ dmg every single cast even though monsters by then would have much higher defenses.

The truth is that if every single mage only used the highest tier spells they have access to, the people that advocate SPR builds would be in the right mathematically speaking assuming one can cause 600+ or even 800+ dmg in a single attack on a monster they actually want to grind at. But unless you want to be doing nothing but standing around waiting for cooldowns to end these mages will always be using mm01 at some point in their 'attack combo'. If those 5 crits out of 100 happen on the mm01 with its lower dmg you're wasting your crits and the INT build wins again.

BTW all of this is even forgetting that even base spr/int builds such as full end or full dex will have crits come in. These 'normal' crits at 200 dmg a hit go for 400 for the +25 SPR build but would go for 460 for the +25 INT build which further drops the effectiveness of the SPR build overall.

[Haiyastan]

follow this and be enlightened
http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19713
GOOD LUCK

[Setokira]

Look INT. Trust me. Like the last guy said, it's better to have a higher base dmg, then a better chance of getting a x2 dmg. IT all adds up, u always want to go with the higher assured. look if u have two ppl same lvl, 1 has lets say a 400base damg and a 600build up. Then lets say another player same lvl, has a 200bas dmg but an 800buildup, by the time u build up and cool down the other guy will score quite a hits on u and cause more than 800dmg useing only his m1 atck. Now Fiesta has no pvp(Player vs Player) (witch SUCKS) so u have to apply this is a monster. U always want the highest damg in the shortest amoun of time. On my last mmo, i had two techs. One did about 9-18dmg and took like 3seconds before it was launched, i had another witch took like 30 seconds BUT did 40-70 dmg. The wekaer one took 2 sp and the higher took like 10. So in the time it takes to use ,my higher lvl tech, i could use my lower lvl tech and do like twics as much dmg. But with in the last mmo i played the more wis(same as spr here) u had the less time it took to use a strong spell, so with enough wis i could make my higher lvl spell be like 4 secs and my lower one be like instant, witch would mean that know the higher lvl spell is better to use,plus the wis gave me tons of sp. ALso it depends on how u fight. If u use alot of quick weaker techs from a distant, fallowed by a tech the stops u enmiy from moving and then fallow it up with a powerful tech u could do alot of damge. It depends on what u kill how u choose to kill it and who u fight with. Personally i think int is better, but spr is not without benifts.

[Lapppy]

I would go for SPR, because mage is the class that uses up the most SP.

[Archaonn]

INT. A mage would have enough Natural SP to be able to spam skills. SPR becomes almost useless after 25 and INT does damage, which Mages need.

[Tsolaria]

my main is 3:1 int/end and works out pretty well

[Yoruko]

I would go for SPR, because mage is the class that uses up the most SP.

Actaully considering mage primarily uses [1] spells they tend to use the least sp.

[kedell]

Well, only level 20 so far, so I can only speak for theoreticals at this point and not actually play experience (as I love theorycraft and have been playing the numbers so far).

Now, speaking on PURE builds (either all int, or all spirit).

Now lets compare the high and low end of skills.

Lvl 1 magic missle

Int at this point would give us 1.2 damage per hit.

Spirit on the other hand only provides

The average of the damage range ((11+14)/2) = 12.5

So (12.5 *2) * .002 = 0.05 dmage per hit.
Where (12.5*2) is the average value of a crit hit, and .002 is the crit percentage garned from 1 point of spirit.

Thus the 1 int giving us a permant 1.2 dmg far outweighs the .05 reducable dmg gained from one point of spirit.

Now lets go to the other end of the spectrum, with a level 53 fireball.

Now lets assume we've spent all 53 points up to here ion a given stat with their +5 class change bonus, thus 58 points total.

So 58 points of int garners us

58*1.2 = 69.6 Damage that can't be mitigated per hit.

Now what about crit?
Currently our crit chance stands at:
5% crit from 25 points of spirit
(58-25) = 33
and 3.3% crit from the remaining 33 points, for a total crit of 8.3%

So now we apply the same math usedx for the magic missle above.
(678+845)/2=761.5
(761.5*2)*.083=126.409

So thus int garners us 69.6 unmitigateable damage and spirit garners us 126.41 mitigatable damage. Thus a creature must mitigate 45% of the damage to lower the damage to int standards.

Now sveral things should be pointed out. This math is taking one of the weekest spells (which will favor constant damage) and compairing it to a high damage spell (which will favor crit builds). However the point still remains. With the damage garnered from natural int, and combined with the damage gained from wands and staves, at higher levels, crit continues to gain more while int gains nothing.

The problem here is what we call static numbers. Anything in a game that has static numbers will act more dependable, yet has very little growth potential. Of course, those things that have large growth potential (crit) are prone to be weak to number genrators (losing damage per spell from things like a bad string of non-crit or a mistimed resist). Regardles,, personally Ifeel spirit dumping is the better of the two. It provides longevity (always a plus) of your mana pool, and as stronger weapons and higher pluses come out in your gear, spirit will keeping getting stronger and intelligence will just keep giving the same output.

However the one thing to note is that yes, on average a pure int build will [robably give you a bit more survivability as crit builds only give you an "average" damage you can make, and in no way guarentee you the crits. However there's just something satisfying about getting triple crits and watching something die that should have taken away more than one of your 15 second cooldowns.

P.S
Also, it should be noted crit gets even stonger as natural crit garnered from natural spirit gain, + crit gear, wands over staves, and other factors are taken into account.

Thus, with a little luck, +spirit mages will always outdamage, and take out, bigger things than +int mages. Not to mention eat spellcasters alive! (Go magic defence!)

[Yoruko]

The problem with all this on paper stuff is when working with the base listed damage on spells you're not taking m.def into consideration which crits are subject to. It's amazing how little base damage on spells actually ends up doing. For example, my firebolt[1] is listed as 33-41, firebolt[3] is 146-182, ignoring cooldowns and all that stuff you'd expect [3] to do significantly more damage. In actual use on yellow mobs my [1] hits for 146, [3] hits for 162, even though [3] has nearly 5x the damage it hardly makes any difference. This damage difference will become even smaller on orange and higher mobs.

Also I'm fairly certain the damage bonus from int ignores m.def. The effect is that the extra crit rate you can gain just doesn't make up the difference. If mages actually used the highest level spells there's a chance the crit increase might be able to make up the difference, but the way things are now it just can't. I mean if firebolt actually did 5x the damage then yeah spr probalby could far surpass int(at least 25spr, then int would likly be better than full int). Unfortunately as long as mages gain max dps from lowest level spells spr simply won't work.

As far as sp goes, again using lowest level spells you use almost no sp. When spells cost 3-12 sp a cast, hell you could cut my sp pool and half and I'd barely notice a difference so the bonus to sp from spr is rather pointless.

Right now for a mage about the only thing spr is good for is adding m.def.

[kedell]

The problem with all this on paper stuff is when working with the base listed damage on spells you're not taking m.def into consideration which crits are subject to. It's amazing how little base damage on spells actually ends up doing. For example, my firebolt[1] is listed as 33-41, firebolt[3] is 146-182, ignoring cooldowns and all that stuff you'd expect [3] to do significantly more damage. In actual use on yellow mobs my [1] hits for 146, [3] hits for 162, even though [3] has nearly 5x the damage it hardly makes any difference. This damage difference will become even smaller on orange and higher mobs.

Also I'm fairly certain the damage bonus from int ignores m.def. The effect is that the extra crit rate you can gain just doesn't make up the difference. If mages actually used the highest level spells there's a chance the crit increase might be able to make up the difference, but the way things are now it just can't. I mean if firebolt actually did 5x the damage then yeah spr probalby could far surpass int(at least 25spr, then int would likly be better than full int). Unfortunately as long as mages gain max dps from lowest level spells spr simply won't work.

As far as sp goes, again using lowest level spells you use almost no sp. When spells cost 3-12 sp a cast, hell you could cut my sp pool and half and I'd barely notice a difference so the bonus to sp from spr is rather pointless.

Right now for a mage about the only thing spr is good for is adding m.def.

I think you missed the part in there where I mentioned high damage spells, thus max rank was assumed (well, except for Magic Missle) Also, as I also pointed out, Damage mitigation would have to surpass almost 50% of the damage being mitigated ( i did take this into cosideration, damage reduction is M.Def). From your experience though, it would appear like most mobs mitigate like 80% of the damage, yet then how is Fire Bolt rank 1 doing so much damage? This to me sounds like the designers might have some algorithms that need working on personally. :/ Also, going pure +spirit gives us the larger pools needed to run the max rank spells along with the faster regen needed to lower downtime.

[Yoruko]

I think you missed the part in there where I mentioned high damage spells, thus max rank was assumed (well, except for Magic Missle) Also, as I also pointed out, Damage mitigation would have to surpass almost 50% of the damage being mitigated ( i did take this into cosideration, damage reduction is M.Def). From your experience though, it would appear like most mobs mitigate like 80% of the damage, yet then how is Fire Bolt rank 1 doing so much damage? This to me sounds like the designers might have some algorithms that need working on personally. :/ Also, going pure +spirit gives us the larger pools needed to run the max rank spells along with the faster regen needed to lower downtime.

The problem is spr doesn't affect the recast times. That's why mages use the lowest level spells. Higher level fire bolts don't do 3x the damage yet have 3x the cooldown.

Magic damage is more tied to the weapon damage(really this goes for all skills not specifically mage) rather than the actual listing on the spell. This is why [1] spells are capable of doing so much damage. Mages would use the highest level spells if it wasn't for recast times. A full int mage is gaining the added damage, the ignored def on every single cast and they're casting really fast. All the added damage just adds up to crazy amounts in the end. This is why it forum theory generally doesn't work, you have to get real world experience to back it up.

[Tawhidc]

actually id say MOSTLY int and a little bit spr

[JerichoCrost]

Pure INT until you can do a good amount of damage... and then SPR.

[blackkenshin]

ALL INT WILL DO
SPR STARTING WUN HELP
INT LVLING IS GOOD MORE POWER IF
SPR= CRITICAL DAMAGE LOW
INT= CRITICAL DAMN POWER
IF WANT CRITICAL % GO GET ACCESORY MARA SIGN +1% and 3% WAND lv20
u will get 5% if spr stat 25
NOTED u get 25 free stat from lv1 ~20=25stat make good use of it
PUT ALL TO INT INSTEAD to SPR
I GOT lv 20 MAGE SPR BUILD on outspark =damage low hard lvling
I GOT lv14 MAGE INT BUILD now lvling same as my lv20 SPR location
this stat and a few skill build i only use lv1 magic missile and lv1 firebolt empower on power
pretty good damage!!
dun 4get to make power scroll +65 damage
cool damage

[Doncer]

Power scroll increases aim not dmg. It's a typo or bug no one's exactly sure which.

[rakgoska]

i say put 10 in spr juste to get a critical once and a while its fun and put all th reste full int

[Doncer]

You get crits even with 0 spr added to free stats and no + crit items. The crit gear / stats simply is added on as a bonus.

Lets say normally at lvl 50 you'd crit 1 time in 100 attacks. Crit bonus of +1% means you'd crit 2 times in 100 attacks instead of just once.

[vietpowder]

Equal INT/SPR!

[Yoruko]

Equal INT/SPR!

As of right now if you're not doing 600 damage per spell then int > spr for the first 25 points, after that you need to be doing roughly 1200 damage per spell to make spr better than int.

[Summon]

Well, I personally don't believe in any "full" builds. I'd suggest get 25 points into SPR, and the rest in INT.

[gkhhkg]

i've seen a mage that builts almost like an archer,guess wat,he buitls his mage(25 spr,25 dex,n he say he going for int later)OMG!!!!DEX FOR MAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Finalplayer_Ryu]

i've seen a mage that builts almost like an archer,guess wat,he buitls his mage(25 spr,25 dex,n he say he going for int later)OMG!!!!DEX FOR MAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some people think that aim and evasion will help them, but aim is always high enough and evasion... lol ...will do nothing in higher levels.

[Dre4mz]

LOL @ joedoe

[Terranwolf]

I'd say going full INT is better. You get much more damage overall.

[Setokira]

Well, only level 20 so far, so I can only speak for theoreticals at this point and not actually play experience (as I love theorycraft and have been playing the numbers so far).

Now, speaking on PURE builds (either all int, or all spirit).

Now lets compare the high and low end of skills.

Lvl 1 magic missle

Int at this point would give us 1.2 damage per hit.

Spirit on the other hand only provides

The average of the damage range ((11+14)/2) = 12.5

So (12.5 *2) * .002 = 0.05 dmage per hit.
Where (12.5*2) is the average value of a crit hit, and .002 is the crit percentage garned from 1 point of spirit.

Thus the 1 int giving us a permant 1.2 dmg far outweighs the .05 reducable dmg gained from one point of spirit.

Now lets go to the other end of the spectrum, with a level 53 fireball.

Now lets assume we've spent all 53 points up to here ion a given stat with their +5 class change bonus, thus 58 points total.

So 58 points of int garners us

58*1.2 = 69.6 Damage that can't be mitigated per hit.

Now what about crit?
Currently our crit chance stands at:
5% crit from 25 points of spirit
(58-25) = 33
and 3.3% crit from the remaining 33 points, for a total crit of 8.3%

So now we apply the same math usedx for the magic missle above.
(678+845)/2=761.5
(761.5*2)*.083=126.409

So thus int garners us 69.6 unmitigateable damage and spirit garners us 126.41 mitigatable damage. Thus a creature must mitigate 45% of the damage to lower the damage to int standards.

Now sveral things should be pointed out. This math is taking one of the weekest spells (which will favor constant damage) and compairing it to a high damage spell (which will favor crit builds). However the point still remains. With the damage garnered from natural int, and combined with the damage gained from wands and staves, at higher levels, crit continues to gain more while int gains nothing.

The problem here is what we call static numbers. Anything in a game that has static numbers will act more dependable, yet has very little growth potential. Of course, those things that have large growth potential (crit) are prone to be weak to number genrators (losing damage per spell from things like a bad string of non-crit or a mistimed resist). Regardles,, personally Ifeel spirit dumping is the better of the two. It provides longevity (always a plus) of your mana pool, and as stronger weapons and higher pluses come out in your gear, spirit will keeping getting stronger and intelligence will just keep giving the same output.

However the one thing to note is that yes, on average a pure int build will [robably give you a bit more survivability as crit builds only give you an "average" damage you can make, and in no way guarentee you the crits. However there's just something satisfying about getting triple crits and watching something die that should have taken away more than one of your 15 second cooldowns.

P.S
Also, it should be noted crit gets even stonger as natural crit garnered from natural spirit gain, + crit gear, wands over staves, and other factors are taken into account.

Thus, with a little luck, +spirit mages will always outdamage, and take out, bigger things than +int mages. Not to mention eat spellcasters alive! (Go magic defence!)


Newbs. im going(by lvl100) 25spr the rest Int
also here is how ur stats effect u and what a pure build looks like for each stat:D :cool:

STATS;
STR = +1.2dmg
END = +.1%block(1~50)/.05%block(51+), +.5def, +5hp.
DEX = +.2%evade(1~50)/.1%evade(51+), +.3%aim(1~33)/.2%aim(34~67)/.1%aim(68+)
INT = +1.2Mdmg
SPR = +.2%crit(1~25)/.1%crit(26+), +.5Mdef, +5sp

If the max level is 100, then this is how a PURE build would look like.

STR = +138dmg
END = +8.25%block, +57.5def, +575hp
DEX = +16.5%evade, +21.2%aim
INT = +138Mdmg
SPR = +14%crit, +57.5Mdef, +575sp
this is assuming that from level 1~100 you get a free stat point each level, and that you received the +5 free stat points from the first job advance, and +10 free stat points from the second job advance.

U have a point with how the crit rato works out... think of this

1 hit 300dmg with mm1 ok, now lets give me full int ill then hit 438mm1

now for critical every 14 hits i WILL do 600dmg, but for the most part ill be doing 300dmg,

for 14hits an int build does like 6100dmg

now ur unlucky spr mage does like 4500dmg.

But maybe ur lucky and u get 2 crtical hit then ur doing 5100dmg per 14 hits

maybe u r really luck and u average 3/14 lucky hits then ur doing 5700 dmg, and ppl 3/14 is like 21%... witch is pretty gay.

now throw in alll the gaer and figure tha out your self, next let look at my mage 25spr witch is 5% critcal hits, now i have the rest int witch is 9oint and +108 Tech(magic...newbs) dmg so ill hit 408 dmg every time and every 20hits ill get a 800hit. so now per 14 hits
ill do 8400...( my one garunteed crit hit included) a little less than full int masge hitting 438 20times(8760) int mage BUT lets say i get lucky and get like 2 or three hits per twenty then ill be doing with 3/20 lucky hit's ill do
9336dmg, a bit more than ur full int mage, so ppls going full anything is wack, id go 25spr then the rest int, as u can see here, u WILL ALWAYS do like 300less dmg, but if u get a little luckyer(witch happens everyso often ull hit 500more then full in mage)

So i advise u balence. Im goin 25spr and the rest int. Plus i have a little more sp in case i wanna spam like ice bolt then the rest mm. SO like i syyy id go 25spr the rest int. Im not the only who suggests this lots of mages suggest this build as well(i can think of one other, im sure ther r more) so try it, the odds r good!:cool: :D

[Iverson92]

i voted full SPR but i never tried a INT mage though. if u wana see how full SPR looks, look here:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u123/whatda321/screenshot111.jpg

might help u choose

sure and thanks::D

[Iverson92]

[QUOTE=Iverson92;209136]Sup man and lady :cool:

[vgd469]

the thing with full INT is that the +138 dmg gets reduced due to you're target's armor. my thinking about this whole thing is that full INT is better in the lower lvl's, where a couple of extra dmg points will enable you to kill a monster, whereas at higher lvls the 2x dmg from crits adds a lot more dmg plus the higher crit rate at those lvls

oh, and one quick question: what lvl do you get your natural stat redistribution point?

[kedell]

1 hit 300dmg with mm1 ok, now lets give me full int ill then hit 438mm1

now for critica every 14 hits i WILL do 600dmg, but for the most part ill be doing 300dmg,

for 14hits an int build does like 6100dmg

now ur unlucky spr mage does like 4500dmg.

But maybe ur lucky and u get 2 crtical hit then ur doing 5100dmg per 14 hits

maybe u r really luck and u average 3/14 lucky hits then ur doing 5700 dmg, and ppl 3/14 is like 21%... witch is pretty gay.


Just to comment on your pure build math (though I do agree some balance is probably the best here, but we were asked which was better of the two PURE builds), you're losing out on damage by comparing it to such a small number spread.

Lets assume 100 MM strikes ar 300 base damage.

The pure int would do a total of 438 damage a stroke over 100 hits, thus:

43,800 damage.

A pure spirit build would do theoretically 14 hits at 600 damage, and 86 hits at 300 damage for a total of:

34,200.

Thus losing a total of 9600 damage.

However a crit percentage of at least +6% is easily possible ("Strong" stave (+5%) and earrings (+1%).

Thus at 20% crit we get 20 hits at 600 damage and 80 at 300 for:

3600 damage or a loss of 7800 damage.

So yes, pure spirit is a loss of DPS for the mage's main spell, as even at level 100 a crit rate of 40% (which is highly doubtful even after gear and normal spirit crit rates) does not approach the DPS of a pure int magic missle.

However where it shines is crits on high damage range spells, such as those of the fire tree and ice. For those I once again point to my previous calculations.

Again, I'll point out a Hyrbid is probably the best choice, however we were asked about the two theoretical ends, and I'm answering to that.

[Haiyastan]

guys follow this now we actually made a program that will prove that full INT OWNS
http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19713&page=5

[moonshadow46]

I think Spr works better than Int.

Spr: increase spr, m. def, and "Critical Rate"
mages use spr like hell. more spr gives more shot. and critical hits can do like 2.5x of damage than normal. if it's possible to crank it up to like 20+% critical rate, mage might actually have the ability to compete with others.

Int: increase m. damage, and 1 bonus for every 5 stat pts input.
well, unlike putting spr, putting pts in Int guarantees higher m. damage in a slow but steady way. But for solo'ers like me, steadily increasing M. damage just doesn't work very well.

[Setokira]

LIke i said in my math, Kedell i used my math to prove how int rule over spr in like 14hits. I used small numbers because a mage will mostlikely need to hit something only a small number of time like 20, so spr does not really shine unless ur doing like 100+ hits witch is very very rare, and yes i suport a hybrid build, im thinking of 25spr and the rest int and possible 1:1 int and spr gear. The sp and crit plus(es) of spr is wha a mage needs no mage needs the m def, personally no mage should fight another mage to see witch one is stronge unless ur tesrting the pure int or pure spr build, but we should untie and fight only the other class, if a mage fights a warrior with alot of mdef... he's gonna die. The mdef is useless and the crit wont do any good if he has low atck. Thus a hybrid build would be best. We need int an spr, mostly int but the spr helps alot. Anywyas as i said, a pure spr mage is crap go hybrid yo!

[grungs]

My mage is 1:1 Spr/Int. try that out if you want.

hi trancera :)

[executedbadtxt01]

i choose Int type..........:cool:

[cpsku]

i think 2 also need to up cause if int not enough atttack low u spr will be low 2 so i 2 also up

[agnorak]

Here is what a pure Int looks like with No equips of any type at the current lvl cap. (lvl 59)

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/1928/pureintwj8.jpg

would have posted a better screenie but thanks to the 255 screenie limit bug i cant -.-

anywayz. if someone would be kind enough to post a pure SPR at current cap with no equips that would be great.

[Setokira]

wow thats not bad... hm i still think that a hybird is better. I personally plan for a 25spr then the rest int hybrid build, the damge is about 300dmg lower per 20hits, thats with 1 critcal hit included, but if i get 2 or 3 crits it's like 500+more dmg then a full int mage plus ull have a little bit more sp^^

http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/invader-zim-10789.jpg

[violence]

Which one is recommended and better overall??

i have 25 spr and the rest is all int i do massive damage and still have enough spr to do a decent ammount of crits that is i would say the best build or some variant close to it if youd like all spr isnt going to give alot of crits at higher lvls and all in although nice wont give yo uthe crits you need if you choose to solo something


violence mage lvl 58 apoline

[cole114]

full int is better then full spr because if ur full spr ur normal damage would be low and even if u crit a lot ur crit won't be high and after 25 spr spr only adds 0.1 and after another 50? it adds 0.05 so at 89 u would only get 12% crit which sucks it is better to go full int and then get sc items

[whatever1234567]

full int is better then full spr because if ur full spr ur normal damage would be low and even if u crit a lot ur crit won't be high and after 25 spr spr only adds 0.1 and after another 50? it adds 0.05 so at 89 u would only get 12% crit which sucks it is better to go full int and then get sc items

*Beats necromancer to death with a shovel *
<-- its getting tired of killing necromancers with shovels