Enhancement fail

[cuyo_el_exterminador]

did u notice that the gold nine that is suppose to rise the succed of the refine is not working,and that there is the same patron to enhance weps whit out the gold nine, please if a GM read this,can u go and see what is happening,and let the enhancement the way it was before, where ur gold nine really do something? or maybe is just my imaginacion.......:confused:

[Shadowic2]

Gold Nines increase the success rate by 15%(I believe that's the correct number). But you must also take in account the Level of the weapon and how far in the enhancement you are.

The higher the level the weapon and the farther into the enhancement process you are, the lower the success rate.

The Gold Nines do not guarantee a success, they just increase the chance of one.

[TrippinRat]

Do they increase the chance by 15% of what the current rate to succeed or do they increase the chance by a net 15%?

In other words, if the chance of success is 20%, does it raise it to 23% (20% + 15% of 20%) or does it raise the chance of success up to 35% (20 + 15)?

I didn't see much of a success rate increase either, so have been inclined to believe it is the former equation.

Note: the 20% success used was a hypothetical value used for clarity of the question. I have no idea what the rates are.

[Lynxeh]

Gold Nines imo are useless. They make really no BIG difference in the success rate of the item. Save your money for the extra red/blue if you need them. Instead of buying a gold, having it fail, then having to buy all 3 sets again.

[Panma]

Do they increase the chance by 15% of what the current rate to succeed or do they increase the chance by a net 15%?

In other words, if the chance of success is 20%, does it raise it to 23% (20% + 15% of 20%) or does it raise the chance of success up to 35% (20 + 15)?

I didn't see much of a success rate increase either, so have been inclined to believe it is the former equation.

Note: the 20% success used was a hypothetical value used for clarity of the question. I have no idea what the rates are.



They don't say, and probably never will.

That's what I call misleading.

[TrippinRat]

Gold Nines imo are useless. They make really no BIG difference in the success rate of the item. Save your money for the extra red/blue if you need them. Instead of buying a gold, having it fail, then having to buy all 3 sets again.

Aye. I happened to win a batch from the Remi's Rare finds before they were added to the shops to purchase. Figured why not. Burned all 10 with no successes. :rolleyes:

[RikoRain]

Gold Nines increase the success rate by 15%(I believe that's the correct number). But you must also take in account the Level of the weapon and how far in the enhancement you are.

The higher the level the weapon and the farther into the enhancement process you are, the lower the success rate.

The Gold Nines do not guarantee a success, they just increase the chance of one.

Again! Too bad they took away the rep system, or Id be +repping you for this too.

Guys, please please PLEASE, keep in mind, the things for enhancement only INCREASE or DECREASE chances of something happening. Its not a 100% this will not happen, thing.

I believe it is,.. what reds prevent it from breaking? (I dont know because I done enhance, Im sure its wrong, but for examples sake, run with me).

Reds decreases the chance of it breaking. That means MOST LIKELY it will not break, but it still may happen.
Blues makes it so that it wont degrade nearly as much as it would. It still might degrade, but most likely it will +0 instead of -1.
The Golds increase the success rate that it will +1 instead of -1 or +0. The RATE, as in CHANCE, as in it doesnt always happen. It increases it by 15%. That means that 15 times out of 100 tries, there is a 15% chance that it will enhanced instead of degrade, or stay the same.

[Lynxeh]

Again! Too bad they took away the rep system, or Id be +repping you for this too.

Guys, please please PLEASE, keep in mind, the things for enhancement only INCREASE or DECREASE chances of something happening. Its not a 100% this will not happen, thing.

I believe it is,.. what reds prevent it from breaking? (I dont know because I done enhance, Im sure its wrong, but for examples sake, run with me).

Reds decreases the chance of it breaking. That means MOST LIKELY it will not break, but it still may happen.
Blues makes it so that it wont degrade nearly as much as it would. It still might degrade, but most likely it will +0 instead of -1.
The Golds increase the success rate that it will +1 instead of -1 or +0. The RATE, as in CHANCE, as in it doesnt always happen. It increases it by 15%. That means that 15 times out of 100 tries, there is a 15% chance that it will enhanced instead of degrade, or stay the same.

We didn't say or think it made it a 100% success. We just didn't see no change at all to the success rate.

[TrippinRat]

Again! Too bad they took away the rep system, or Id be +repping you for this too.

Guys, please please PLEASE, keep in mind, the things for enhancement only INCREASE or DECREASE chances of something happening. Its not a 100% this will not happen, thing.

I believe it is,.. what reds prevent it from breaking? (I dont know because I done enhance, Im sure its wrong, but for examples sake, run with me).

Reds decreases the chance of it breaking. That means MOST LIKELY it will not break, but it still may happen.
Blues makes it so that it wont degrade nearly as much as it would. It still might degrade, but most likely it will +0 instead of -1.
The Golds increase the success rate that it will +1 instead of -1 or +0. The RATE, as in CHANCE, as in it doesnt always happen. It increases it by 15%. That means that 15 times out of 100 tries, there is a 15% chance that it will enhanced instead of degrade, or stay the same.


Well, it says reds decrease the chance by 100%. Is there more than 100% chance of it breaking to begin with at some point? That would be downright bogus. Sure enhancing is risky business, but making it manditory for people to buy stuff to enhance stuff to its full potential is wrong.

And, as Lynxeh said, no one in the thread said anything about Nines making automatic successes. The question was how REAL is that 15% bonus? Increasing a 20% rate by 15% is basically worthless. Increasing it by a net 15% is good. Current trends seem to indicate it's the former.

[Panma]

Reds decreases the chance of it breaking. That means MOST LIKELY it will not break, but it still may happen.
Blues makes it so that it wont degrade nearly as much as it would. It still might degrade, but most likely it will +0 instead of -1.
The Golds increase the success rate that it will +1 instead of -1 or +0. The RATE, as in CHANCE, as in it doesnt always happen. It increases it by 15%. That means that 15 times out of 100 tries, there is a 15% chance that it will enhanced instead of degrade, or stay the same.

Perfect's (Red Eyes and Blue Miles) completely negate the chances of either a breakage or a decrease in enhancement. It lowers the chances for either happening to 0%. In the rare case the weapon still broke/de-leveled it was a bug and Outspark would fix it.

I do believe the bug is completely gone though?




I want Outspark to give a clear and concise answer:

Do Gold Nines increase the chance of success by 15% of the original chance, or do they add an additional 15% chance?

Read:
Is it 15% of (i.e.) 5% to make it 5.75%?
-or-
Is it 15% + 5% to make it 20%?

I really doubt it's the second one, otherwise we wouldn't have the issues we are having.

However, if you read the Perfect descriptions they say decrease by 100% and we all know that if you use a Perfect, it negates the effect which means it's the original chance - 100% to make 0%.

Which means, by Outspark's own wording and actions, that Gold Nines should add 15%, so it SHOULD be 15% + the original chance.

[HeroicAce]

I also got a set of nines once and tried them, and they do increase the rate but it isnt by some big noticeable amount. As of yet, i still just use eyes and miles when i need enhancing done. My experience with it though has been this. Say that in enhancement, 1 of the boxes is success and the other 7 are either fail, break or degrade. From what i have seen eyes change all breaks to fail or degrade and miles change all degrades to fails so you end up with all fails and one success when you use both. Assuming something like this is how it works, then from what i have seen, nines add one more success box. So if you were to use all 3 you would end up with a 2 in 8 chance of picking the right box for that lvl of enhancement and a 6 in 8 chance of it failing with no breaks or degrades.

For me i just move around the wheel until i have used all the slots, and as of yet i have never had to go past 8 stones per lvl of enhancement. one of the 8 boxes has always enhanced it for me, so i think my ideas here might have merit. But seeing as how i cant prove anything, who knows how it really works.

[artboi]

http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125316

check this thread, it has some detailed information about it, with real trails and analisis about enhancing.

[Ryokosha]

According to statistics it's 15% more of the original value. I fixed 15% would be just too much and it would be noticable on higher refines.

[TrippinRat]

http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125316

check this thread, it has some detailed information about it, with real trails and analisis about enhancing.

His analysis was kind of hard to follow. Not to mention if this was just one trial, that doesn't hold a lot of water. Many people can atest that there are times you get a good streak, and there are times you get a bad streak (as mentioned by FatalLace with 26 straight fails).

I highly doubt anyone will ante up the dough to make a solid analysis of the system (at least I hope they don't for the sake of finding out... yikes!) However, if someone is keeping track and is reading this, post your results. :)

If I am reading the OP's analysis correctly though, it would indicate my hypothesis is true.

[artboi]

His analysis was kind of hard to follow. Not to mention if this was just one trial, that doesn't hold a lot of water. Many people can atest that there are times you get a good streak, and there are times you get a bad streak (as mentioned by FatalLace with 26 straight fails).

I highly doubt anyone will ante up the dough to make a solid analysis of the system (at least I hope they don't for the sake of finding out... yikes!) However, if someone is keeping track and is reading this, post your results. :)

If I am reading the OP's analysis correctly though, it would indicate my hypothesis is true.

i can tell you this analysis was based on many trails for i was with him with every enhancement he made. he is my rl brother. and we have put well alot of time into enhancement trying to figure it out.

[TrippinRat]

i can tell you this analysis was based on many trails for i was with him with every enhancement he made. he is my rl brother. and we have put well alot of time into enhancement trying to figure it out.

My hat is off to you and your brother then for doing this. However, due to either it being 2:30am or that any sort of statistics just turns my brain off... I don't really follow the analysis he presented.

What is the bottomline conclusion? That even with Nines it's a decrease in success?


PS- While it's on my mind, your sig makes me laugh in so many ways it's rediculous. lol

[Canboy]

<3 Gold nines, got my bellow to +7 in 10 stones ^^

[Ryokosha]

<3 Gold nines, got my bellow to +7 in 10 stones ^^
Actually on lower refine levels the Gold Nines are quite useful, while on the last ones they get less useful.

80% -> 92% (that's reducing the fail rate by more than half!)

20% -> 23% (that's quite hard to even notice)