Evasion Increase 8x

[adudefellfast]

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Edits(Most recent first): Added discussion with cm post. Changed some wording to be even more clear than it already was. Added and deleted some discussion with players. Modified wording a bit.
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The 80 abyss and 80 dungeon have both experienced an increase in evasion for monsters. (Meaning it's harder to hit them if you don't understand somehow). Increasing their evasion is understandable since before, as a 77 mage, I could hit them 100% of the time with just an aim t1 scroll. I'd even say the increase is probably about right in the dungeon, since I can hit the monsters about 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the time with a t3 aim (and 100% with t4). However, the increase in the abyss is NOT good. With t4 aim, I hit around 10~15% of the time against the monsters.

This is pretty ridiculous and means that even at level 8x, I need to use t4s to hit 100% in abyss. Why should we NEED t4 anything to 1v1 non dungeon monsters around our level? That's nonsense.

A side note for the whole aim situation: I find it sort of odd that until mid 60s, I needed nothing more than aim t1 to hit anything reasonable for me to kill for my level at 100%. Then I only needed t2 aim until high 70s in which case I suddenly need to jump to t4 aim when fighting many monsters... T3 useless? I don't know why the huge leap of evasion happens at around level 80, but it certainly doesn't follow how the game has progressed before it.

I think Outspark, or whoever is in charge of these minor stat changes and such, needs to hire a mathematician to calculate for them (or go the long route and do rigorous testing beforehand). If the pay were decent, I could submit my resume for this new position I've pointed out. Regardless if it's me or someone down in California already, you guys desperately need a mathematician tester on your staff to find and fix these simple errors before you release a patch.

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Added after discussion:
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One can make the game harder without making it impossible. Level 80+ should still be fun, not a damn job.

There isn't much of an increase in aim from 70 to 80 weapons (actually none if I switched to a green wand from my blue wand), so I'm dishing out the same aim as a level 70. Yea, the aim increase is huge on the 85 stuff, so it should make up for it, but apparently it doesn't in abyss/dungeon as people have pointed out.

A big point to make here is the eventual worthlessness of aim scrolls. I've seen the orange weapons and 95 greens before, but thanks for those pictures for others to have a comparison. With 1000~2000+ aim added from weapons, what's a worthless few hundred from a scroll going to matter? Nothing at all. So to get this straight...we use t1 and t2 aim until level 80, then t3 aim is useless. So we use t4 aim until 95, then never again need aim scrolls? The whole game's mechanics are ill conceived.

I also wonder, will equipment evasion after 90 be INSANELY high to match the aim of those weapons, or are players never again going to be able to dodge each others hits? Guess archers avoid pvp after 95?

How about hiring a mathematician?

=================================


Sounds a bit broken because it's that high, however upping the evasion is generally a good idea because:

1. Better balance for Archers in PVM.
2. DEX actually gets useful (ever heard of pure DEX Fighter/Archer/Cleric? me neither).
3. Starting at level 85 (I think) there will be those special "High Hit" weapons that do a bit less damage, but have a lot more Hit. They are actually getting useful now.

For a low hit character, still hitting 70~80% of the time should be the norm (with decent scrolls on I mean). This means mid range aim players would be hitting about 81~90% of the time and high aim players would hit 91%~100% of the time. If nothing else, you could compare such percents to scholastic grading where most players fall into the 'C' range of 70~80% hit rate, while some, as their aim is increased by various means, move up to the B and A ranges. If it were done like this, THEN we could scream all we want that causes balance. Non dex classes should not have less than a 50~60% hit rate, though even that low makes the game nearly unplayable.


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Discussion with CM:
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CM: I will take your post statement by statement, and I'm putting this on the initial post as well.


We always pay close attention to the forums and are mindful of players' feedback.
1) If only based on the number of replies I see by your team in key threads where players either demand a reply or a reply is obviously needed to keep a few people playing the game, then I say your first statement is an outright lie. If it's not, then it is an over exaggeration. A big one at that.

If based not on the number of needed replies, but on the quality of the few replies, then again your statement doesn't hold true. Replies often go to shallow threads where there is barely an issue (points to the long hard to read rant about being disconnected during kq. I guess you may have needed to reply to that...but it sure didn't help much). Otherwise, as seen here, you obviously didn't pay much attention to the content of this thread. Only read the title and not my initial post? There's enough information in the initial post to know I was talking about Abyss (and/or GHS, though most of us agree with bk weapons that is at least playable). But what is your second statement?


We've checked, double checked, and triple checked, and have been unable to find any new evasion changes to level 80+ monsters.
2) It was never the bulk of 80+ monsters that had the problem. It was the abyss and ghs. Please take the small amount of time to read my initial post.


Our developer partners have verified that they made no changes to monster evasion, and Outspark's dedicated QA team has tested and confirmed this fact.
3) Someone is lying, or maybe there's a bug, or heck - maybe someone accidentally fudged a number somewhere. Either way, who cares what those people say. The fact of the matter is: monsters in the abyss can barely be hit. Monsters in ghs gained an increased evasion. Something was changed. Just go test it for yourself.


One possible reason this issue has recently come to the forefront may be because many players simply do not have enough DEX to effectively deal with high level monsters. Our advice is to invest your stat points in DEX and increase your chance to hit.
4) No. What the heck kind of answer is this? You march into my thread and claim, with no evidence whatsoever, that all our evidences are wrong? We're not a bunch of dumb newbie players who don't understand how the hit rate system works. Heck, I again point to my initial post for proof of that. I have a mathematics degree, so I'd sure hope to believe it means at the very least I grasp the concept of more dex = more hit rate. Go look at the full dex archer's picture and his pile of aim and ask him if he can hit those mobs. (50% hit rate good deal for a bunch of dex).


High level characters can redistribute their stat points using the Stat Reset Scroll in the Fiesta Store, which will be 15% off as part of our Deal of the Day event on Saturday, November 22nd.
5) I request this garbage be deleted from my thread. I don't want people stumbling in here wondering about the evasion issue and thinking you've given them a solution. It has already been shown more dex is not the answer. I'm fairly angry you'd even say this junk in a serious discussion like this, so I'm simply going to say you can refer to Adrichiang's post on relation to this.


We will continue to monitor monster evasion, the forums, and this thread very closely.
6) Oh what a great job you've done monitoring, though I won't beat a dead horse by recapping everything I've already said about your wonderful abilities to 'pay attention'.


Conclusion:
I've paid quite a bit of money into this game already, under the delusion that my money was being put to good use furthering what could very well be some of the best base concepts for a free to play mmorpg. Already you've proven to fail in important departments, particularly but not limited to customer relations. If this is the total customer service capability of Outspark... then combined with the signs of your only caring to gouge your customer's wallets as I've seen happen in two other mmorpgs which rose and fell while following the same path you seem to edged towards... I just want to say your comment put me over the edge. I'm going to cap, just to say I've done it in yet another mmorpg, then I'm out of here. You keep feeding lies to your customers, and you continue paying little attention to their real needs while asking for them to pay you to do it, then you guarantee the fall you have coming to you. Good luck with your trying to piece together the splattered remains of a once great game.

[lordofthesick]

When BR was first opened up all the new mobs had crazy high evade. A patch or two later there evade was dropped way down , with of course no note of it in the patch notes, and also kidmon dmg was drasticlly increased. With this patch maybe the 8x mobs in the abyss and dungeon have reverted back to the extremely high evade. No one can be sure as always with outspark they apply a patch and leave little details like this out of the notes, kidmon dmg was changed yet again to they were hitting me (a lvl 84 mage) for around 500-600dmg now they hit me for 100-160dmg no note of that either in the patch notes.

Its almost like they dont know whats in there own patchs little things like this slip throught all the time. If they dont know what onsons soft is sending in these patchs they really should not apply them till they know or atleast do proper testing , update the patch notes then bring the servers back up. These "minor" changes affect gameplay quite a bit , and I for one would like to read some accurate patch notes with full details for once >.<

[NLWarrior]

I agree. At level 65, i still use T1 aim scroll and I hit the monsters fine! If it was a boss, T2 ftw! I thought we could use T3 after that.... I guess they are enforcing people to use T4 scroll?

But anyways, by the sound of it, it sounds like ridiculous to me.

I'm a cleric and I don't have that many dex at all. I use hammer so you know how low my aim would be.

[DincaTinel]

Thats very normal bc lvl 80 is the lvl btw low evasion and hight hmmmmmmmmmmm i dont now how can i explain to u well il try

lvl 1-70 normal evasion
lvl 80-90 big evasion
lvl 90+ hight evasion and this is normal bc the lvl 90 wepons will get very big aim i mean huge here are so pics to prove that

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/Marius_Marius_Angel/untitled.jpg

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/Marius_Marius_Angel/hellgateaxe.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/Marius_Marius_Angel/Helgasorangewand.png
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/Marius_Marius_Angel/Helgas1hsword.png
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/Marius_Marius_Angel/helga2h.png

For the oranges is normal to have such huge aim but take a look at the green one

Il try to get more lvl 90+ wepons pics i now i have more but dont remember were did i puted them so u see ul get anormal aim for monsters with hight evasion from lvl 90s the thins is that the lvl 80 is the lvl betewen normal evasion monsters and hight evasion mosters


PS: Sry for mi bad enghlish

[t3nchi]

its completly stupid tho .. if ppl complained about it and then the patch fixed it and ppl were happy...then why, WHY whould u bring it back!? does that make any sense? ..you fix something to later mess it up again -.- !?? just when u think its going good and new dances blah blah games improving...BAM!

[djddmd69]

I agree i dont care if the lvl 90+ weapons add so much aim its a 80+ abyss i got over 1500aim still miss 1/4 the time if lucky im a archer and archers have the best aim even got 15% aim stats increase im just hoping this a mistake like last time if so fix it please - sure_shot 86 Archer Apoline

[ProxyAngel]

The 8x abyss is now completely useless. You can't make money because you can't hit anything. Anyone who goes in there, now comes right back out. The eva increase is ridiculous. I hope it will be fixed soon. Otherwise, there really isn't much we can do.

[KireiYosei]

I think level 80+ is supposed to be meant as a change in the difficulty in the game. The mobs evasion used to be ridiculous. BK+t4 aim and I still missed quite a bit. But yeah... I think the evasion on the mobs is supposed to be higher.

[devdog252]

Seeing that there is absolutely no game content for 8x players other than killing 10,000 Kidmons and 10,000 trees, the abyss and GHS dungeon are the only 2 places that I enjoy grinding. Now that they have completely ruined the 8x abyss and GHS, I no longer have fun playing the game. Kinda sad that I have spent all this REAL money on SparkCash items and then they make the game basically unplayable for my 2 8x characters. I guess i will just be vendoring in town until they fix the abyss and GHS and if they don't fix it, I guess i will have a huge garage sale of all my 8x mage and fighter's gears and find a game that is fun to play!! This new patch has ruined the game for me. I know ppl are going to say that I am over reacting, but 95% of my gameplay is grinding abyss and GHS. Please fix this OutSpark!!

Bayleon 86 Mage (Ryekarayn)
Beyleon 84 Fighter (Ryekarayn)

[artboi]

I think level 80+ is supposed to be meant as a change in the difficulty in the game. The mobs evasion used to be ridiculous. BK+t4 aim and I still missed quite a bit. But yeah... I think the evasion on the mobs is supposed to be higher.

i dunno if u are just agreeing with this just cause you are a community leader, but the evasion on lvl80 abyss is just plain stupid, period.
abyss is suppoused to be a challenge, yes, but with feature of PVPing.

they all of the sudden increased the evasion, not even with bk and t4 aim i can hit 3 hits in a row in lvl80 abyss, not mentioning lvl80 dungeon which i havent gone yet. Now i cant even make the little money any lvl80 can make!

this is bullsht, yes i've said it!:mad:

[apallday]

Seeing that there is absolutely no game content for 8x players other than killing 10,000 Kidmons and 10,000 trees, the abyss and GHS dungeon are the only 2 places that I enjoy grinding. Now that they have completely ruined the 8x abyss and GHS, I no longer have fun playing the game. Kinda sad that I have spent all this REAL money on SparkCash items and then they make the game basically unplayable for my 2 8x characters. I guess i will just be vendoring in town until they fix the abyss and GHS and if they don't fix it, I guess i will have a huge garage sale of all my 8x mage and fighter's gears and find a game that is fun to play!! This new patch has ruined the game for me. I know ppl are going to say that I am over reacting, but 95% of my gameplay is grinding abyss and GHS. Please fix this OutSpark!!

Bayleon 86 Mage (Ryekarayn)
Beyleon 84 Fighter (Ryekarayn)

Yep is the exact same for me. Im so sick of these fail patches. Make the game unplayable and even if you can muster the stupidity of it and do grind its worthless because they lower the green drop rate again. They think there gonna make everything better by releasing these dumb "set items" when all there trying to do is make people stick around to get fail items that let you mock 7 mobs instead od 6. Well with no where for lvl 8x's to farm them they are 100% pointless. So once again go outspark for ruining the game. And now watch your profits drop as people quit.

[TrippinRat]

I think the solution is to slaughter 1000 newbies in each of the other abysses for this atrocity

[Miazma]

YEEHAAAAAAA GHS is playable again. Sure I have to use a BK weapon and T4 scrolls but who cares. I average 2-3 green drops an hour, I dont have to buy scrolls so it is all bonus money even if the greens are only good to npc.

[ken10]

I think level 80+ is supposed to be meant as a change in the difficulty in the game. The mobs evasion used to be ridiculous. BK+t4 aim and I still missed quite a bit. But yeah... I think the evasion on the mobs is supposed to be higher.

100% agree ^^

[artboi]

100% agree ^^

i agree with making the game more dificult, but come on! i use lvl85 + t4 aim and i cant hit ***** in abyss lvl80 which it was the only place for me to be at peace soloing, the little money i make comes from here.... now i cant make any money

[adudefellfast]

One can make the game harder without making it impossible. Level 80+ should still be fun, not a damn job.

There isn't much of an increase in aim from 70 to 80 weapons (actually none if I switched to a green wand from my blue wand), so I'm dishing out the same aim as a level 80. Yea, the aim increase is huge on the 85 stuff, so it should make up for it, but apparently it doesn't as people have pointed out.

You realize too that a big point is the eventual worthlessness of aim scrolls. I've seen the orange weapons and 95 greens before, but thanks for those pictures for others to have a comparison. With 1000~2000+ aim added from weapons, what's a worthless few hundred from a scroll going to matter? Nothing at all. So to get this straight...we use t1 and t2 aim until level 80, then t3 aim is useless. So we use t4 aim until 95, then never again need aim scrolls? The whole game's mechanics are ill conceived.

Oh and a side note, will equipment evasion after 90 be INSANELY high to match the aim of those weapons, or are players never again going to be able to dodge each other's hits? Guess archers avoid pvp after 95?

HIRE A MATHEMATICIAN....NOW

[Adrichiang]

Okies I totally replied on the wrong thread so I copied and pasted it here ^^.


Hmm... I did a test regarding how the increase of the evasion on the mobs as well as their basic defense (I used to be able to do a 900 crit hit on nature's mist aoe now I do around 600+ on a crit) made it harder to grind/farm in level 80+ abyss. I am a capped level 89 archer with over 1500+ aim if you factor in the bonus points put in dex and aim scrolls. On average I should be able to grind and sell 400s worth of drops in about 50 mins then my inventory is maxed, now it is more around 300s in about 1 hour so at least a 25% drops in silvers earned so on average it took me 25% longer to kill the mobs. When it is down to the fact that I do miss 50% I no longer bother using aim/power shot and just keep kiting while firing nature's mist and piercing shot and kill them mainly on DOT effects.

Unfortunately my method works only for archers and even then not many people are very comfortable with attacking on the move non stop as an archer because you are not using the autoattack and tanking but rather moving on a constant basis while aiming AOE attacks non stop. If anyone see me play in game during a Fight a Boss GM event they will notice that I do not tank but rather kite as many bosses as I can non stop while the lower levels get in cheap shots on the bosses without much fear of death except for the occassionally boss AOE lol. It's not easy running in a circle non stop for an hour straight :P.

Primary reasons why I would even bother going back into abyss:
1. Regain the silvers I expended using T3-4 scrolls to reach new cap since the drops in Burning Rock even solo does not compensate for expenses on restoning + scrolls.
2. Farming for 80+ greens and recipes. Silly me for leveling so fast by the time 80+ greens and T4 recipes are implemented in game I was stuck killing Jewel Trees mobs that are too high level to drop 80+ greens or T4 recipes lol. I am sorry to say that realistically I can not afford to pay over 10+G for every 80+ decent set I wished to enhance, at the moment still stuck using my old 70's set ^^.

[zerozone01]

I am a Pure Dex Archer... with BK weapon and T4 Aim i have about 1.7k AIM... and i still iss half the time in aybss. IT is so bad that i actually resorted to going to ROA and killing the 7x just so i can get some decent money. I am sorry about anyone i killed or will kill in the future but until outspark fixes HPA imma kill the low levels in ROA.

[Ryokosha]

Sounds a bit broken because it's that high, however upping the evasion is generally a good idea because:

1. Better balance for Archers in PVM.
2. DEX actually gets useful (ever heard of pure DEX Fighter/Mage/Cleric? me neither).
3. Starting at level 85 (I think) there will be those special "High Hit" weapons that do a bit less damage, but have a lot more Hit. They are actually getting useful now.

[adudefellfast]

Sounds a bit broken because it's that high, however upping the evasion is generally a good idea because:

1. Better balance for Archers in PVM.
2. DEX actually gets useful (ever heard of pure DEX Fighter/Archer/Cleric? me neither).
3. Starting at level 85 (I think) there will be those special "High Hit" weapons that do a bit less damage, but have a lot more Hit. They are actually getting useful now.


I am a Pure Dex Archer... with BK weapon and T4 Aim i have about 1.7k AIM... and i still iss half the time in aybss. IT is so bad that i actually resorted to going to ROA and killing the 7x just so i can get some decent money. I am sorry about anyone i killed or will kill in the future but until outspark fixes HPA imma kill the low levels in ROA.

Um yea, so I have heard of a pure dex archer...and they are using the level 85 weapon you're talking about...still not able to hit. Great plan you got there Ryo...next time think it through.

Even without that previous pure dex archer statement, how could someone be so...well I won't flame, but it seems like a pretty dumb response to say non pure dex people shouldn't be allowed to hit monsters. I do agree that we shouldn't always be able to 100% hit monsters, but that needs to be fixed throughout all levels, not just level 80+. Hence the need, and I say it again, they need a mathematician.

For a low hit character, still hitting 70~80% of the time should be the norm (with decent scrolls on I mean). This means mid range aim players would be hitting about 81~90% of the time and high aim players would hit 91%~100% of the time. If nothing else, you could compare such percents to scholastic grading where most players fall into the 'C' range of 70~80% hit rate, while some, as their aim is increased by various means, move up to the B and A ranges. If it were done like this, THEN you could scream about it causing balance. Until then, please logically think things through before you post, and give solid reasoning as to how it balances the game. Non dex classes should not have less than a 50~60% hit rate, though even that low makes the game nearly unplayable.

[zerozone01]

I LAMOed when i read the quotes above

[Stepper]

I'm going to laugh if Outspark announces that they'll be selling aim charms in the cash shop.

"Level 80+ is supposed to be difficult... unless you pay. ;D"

Seems to me like that's the direction they're headed in.

[zerozone01]

I'm going to laugh if Outspark announces that they'll be selling aim charms in the cash shop.

"Level 80+ is supposed to be difficult... unless you pay. ;D"

Seems to me like that's the direction they're headed in.

ZOMG i be jokin in Teva that putspark is gonna make Eva/Aim Charms LOL.... Seriously i wouldnt be surprised neither.....

[artboi]

they need better programers enough said.
and GMs

[adudefellfast]

I think outspark simply obtains the code from korea then fudges the numbers the way they want. The way they are doing it right now though is so random...If only they had a mathematician run the numbers for them, create trials of realistic characters...

[lordofthesick]

I think outspark simply obtains the code from korea then fudges the numbers the way they want. The way they are doing it right now though is so random...If only they had a mathematician run the numbers for them, create trials of realistic characters...

It is very random doesnt make much sense why they tweak something one way then tweak it another , then change it back :confused: very indecisive or maybe they just have no idea what there doing and OS isnt even awear of these changes till they have occured , which is my guess as there was nothing about evasion increase/decrease in any patch notes

oopsies strange stuff happened last patch....maybe if we dont say anything the players wont notice >.>

[KateeHellen]

"Dump and Run"... famous OS patch apply technique.
I am not sure how is now but last time when i soloed blue trumpys in AeW i noticed that they have "little" higher evasion and at 10 attack i hit only three times in regular attack.
I known that Trumpys have much higher level as me but excuse me... they have so huge evasion that only my special attack are able to hit them.
By the way there was couple situations when i miss STUNNED trumpy :eek:
Can someone logical explain me how i can miss something what theoretical is not moving?
And looking from the "other" side mobs have 100% accuracy and they almost never miss... <especially ranged attack mobs, all attack 100% hit rate(maybe they have laser targeting rangefinders? :rolleyes:>...

[THr3eS01di3Rs]

Thats very normal bc lvl 80 is the lvl btw low evasion and hight hmmmmmmmmmmm i dont now how can i explain to u well il try

lvl 1-70 normal evasion
lvl 80-90 big evasion
lvl 90+ hight evasion and this is normal bc the lvl 90 wepons will get very big aim i mean huge here are so pics to prove that

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/Marius_Marius_Angel/untitled.jpg

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/Marius_Marius_Angel/hellgateaxe.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/Marius_Marius_Angel/Helgasorangewand.png
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/Marius_Marius_Angel/Helgas1hsword.png
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/Marius_Marius_Angel/helga2h.png

For the oranges is normal to have such huge aim but take a look at the green one

Il try to get more lvl 90+ wepons pics i now i have more but dont remember were did i puted them so u see ul get anormal aim for monsters with hight evasion from lvl 90s the thins is that the lvl 80 is the lvl betewen normal evasion monsters and hight evasion mosters


PS: Sry for mi bad enghlish

Yeah the high AIM fixes the eva problem for PvE but what about PvP? With archers they just their greatest advantage. So why is the Eva so hugh in the first place?

[AruAzifu]

There shouldn't be 100% hitrate, even mobs must have that 1% to evade.
Game would be ruined if 100% .... :confused:
99% is more then enough.:cool:

~ clau:p

[lordofthesick]

If super high monster evasion is a way of increasing the games difficulty ,I must say I can't agree. I dont know about you guys but fighting a monster and missing half of the time is just plain boring, its not really harder its just far more time consuming , not to mention hell on the restone bill.
Maybe these odd evasion switching there doing is a bug maybe its intentional and there just tweaking it around till they find a rate they like idk

Btw if no one else noticed monster dmg on a few things in BR has been changed as well. Kidmon at first hit for very low dmg (20-35 or so) a patch later they started doing about 500-580 dmg to me , now they hit me for around 120-200dmg

The kart miners Used to hit me for about 1k with there aoe attack now they do about half that :confused:

It seems 8x content changes in one way or the other, every patch

[adudefellfast]

There shouldn't be 100% hitrate, even mobs must have that 1% to evade.
Game would be ruined if 100% .... :confused:
99% is more then enough.:cool:

~ clau:p


It was never my intent to demand always hitting 100% on every monster, however increasing the evasion so high that you cannot hit even 75% of the time is a pretty dumb move.

Another MAJOR point I was trying to make is that until level 8x....you always DO hit 100% on every monster (with up to t2 aim), then suddenly you hit 10~60% of the time - WITH T4 AIM? That's not a very good way to increase the difficulty of the game. I think if they want to tweak the evasion, not only do they need to know what they are doing (need a mathematician -.-), but they also need to apply it to all levels. Make it so the average player with the average - moderately good equipment - will hit 75% of the time on monsters somewhat higher level than them. This would make it so A) Aim scrolls use is more helpful. B) Aim t3 would actually have a use <.< C) Dex would mean something more. People would want to stat more dex or have higher dex equipment. And D) The game would be somewhat harder but not boring or impossible. (though this one only if that's the reason they are tweaking the evasion).

I'd like to point out again that they shouldn't do a thing to the numbers without doing rigorous trials or calculating the numbers beforehand. These random tweaks must be stopped one way or another or the company will definitely go downhill (more so than the huge player base loss that's already happened).

[Jen1073]

honestly wouldn't it be more fun to up the dmg of the monsters rather than the evasion?

Its just boring sitting there 15min to kill a monster but still only having to heal a few times.

Gimmie more like Helga....at least there its a challenge and you die as a result of your efforts...not just fall asleep at the keyboard after missing 100000 times.

[Mordriss]

I don't have much of a problem hitting any thing in ghs or holy place. I miss once in a while - yeah enough to notice but enough to keep me from either of those places. No I am not full dex ;p

Maybe you all should put archers in your parties ^^

In fact, this should encourage proper partying all around in the 8x areas.

For once- good job Os (or whomever).

[adudefellfast]

I don't have much of a problem hitting any thing in ghs or holy place. I miss once in a while - yeah enough to notice but enough to keep me from either of those places. No I am not full dex ;p

Maybe you all should put archers in your parties ^^

In fact, this should encourage proper partying all around in the 8x areas.

For once- good job Os (or whomever).

Sorry but what you're saying is fairly irrelevant since I said GHS evasion is probably about right for a reasonable evasion increase (maybe lowered just a little bit so crystal guardians can be hit more than 50% of the time by non archers). I'd like you to go try your hand at hitting monsters in 80 abyss though, as that's where the main problem is. I can assure you, you won't be hitting them very often.

You're right, if there were a reasonable evasion increase, then it would encourage proper partying, where an archer would be more useful than just a herder because they can hit 100%, but the evasion doesn't need to be increased so much that all other classes cannot hit 80%+ of the time (8x abyss), 50%+ of the time (higher level GHS monsters).

So in a way, what you're saying is the same as me, that an evasion increase does improve the game, but you're also implying this drastic evasion increase is helpful, when it's really quite detrimental.

I'll say the ideal system again: average player should hit 75% of the time on monsters a bit higher level than them. This should imply that average archers would hit about 85~90% of the time on monsters a bit higher than them. (both cases is with proper aim scrolls, NOT simply the aim scrolls they are able to use for their level, but the ones their level could typically afford to use every hour).

[Ryokosha]

Um yea, so I have heard of a pure dex archer...and they are using the level 85 weapon you're talking about...still not able to hit. Great plan you got there Ryo...next time think it through.

Even without that previous pure dex archer statement, how could someone be so...well I won't flame, but it seems like a pretty dumb response to say non pure dex people shouldn't be allowed to hit monsters. I do agree that we shouldn't always be able to 100% hit monsters, but that needs to be fixed throughout all levels, not just level 80+. Hence the need, and I say it again, they need a mathematician.

For a low hit character, still hitting 70~80% of the time should be the norm (with decent scrolls on I mean). This means mid range aim players would be hitting about 81~90% of the time and high aim players would hit 91%~100% of the time. If nothing else, you could compare such percents to scholastic grading where most players fall into the 'C' range of 70~80% hit rate, while some, as their aim is increased by various means, move up to the B and A ranges. If it were done like this, THEN you could scream about it causing balance. Until then, please logically think things through before you post, and give solid reasoning as to how it balances the game. Non dex classes should not have less than a 50~60% hit rate, though even that low makes the game nearly unplayable.
Well that "Pure DEX Archer" thing was a mistake on my part. I meant Fighter/Mage/Cleric. Apparently Archers are the only class that use DEX.

My post is very well thought through you didn't really read/understood what I was saying, though.

And right now it's NOT the case that it's impossible hit them without DEX. You still hit to 15% even if you have no special AIM bonusses. Pure DEX Archer can already hit to 50%.

If you look at it like that:

Pure DEX makes hit go from 65% -> 100% but you sacrifice a lot of damage for it, it's pretty much useless. But now that it increases from 15% -> 50% that's more than triple the damage through DEX and finally has some use.



With those 'Increased AIM' weapons + Aim Increase Scrolls + Dex Stats Increased you can already hit the monster to more often than 50%.

[adudefellfast]

Well that "Pure DEX Archer" thing was a mistake on my part. I meant Fighter/Mage/Cleric. Apparently Archers are the only class that use DEX.

My post is very well thought through you didn't really read/understood what I was saying, though.

And right now it's NOT the case that it's impossible hit them without DEX. You still hit to 15% even if you have no special AIM bonusses. Pure DEX Archer can already hit to 50%.

If you look at it like that:

Pure DEX makes hit go from 65% -> 100% but you sacrifice a lot of damage for it, it's pretty much useless. But now that it increases from 15% -> 50% that's more than triple the damage through DEX and finally has some use.



With those 'Increased AIM' weapons + Aim Increase Scrolls + Dex Stats Increased you can already hit the monster to more often than 50%.

I see we may have to agree to disagree then instead my thinking you didn't think things through - and I'm sorry for assuming that.

You're still thinking people should hit below 50% of the time without any dex so dex then becomes more useful, but that would make the game quite boring for almost everyone else. If you have a moderate amount of dex and have high aim stuff you'd still be hitting only 25~30% of the time. Who wants to stand around attacking one monster that long? You realize this also gives mages a huge advantage since their aoes are not affected by aim. So you can't say this balances the classes (not to say that was a huge point of yours anyway). All it does is make fighters and clerics not at all fun to play as damaging classes (yes you can argue cleric is support class, but if you reduce the hit rate to 15%, you may as well just strip their hammers of any damage they can do as they for sure won't be fighting anything).

If instead, evasion were such like my previous mentioned system, then it would be much more balanced. Sure it would make it so full dex statting would be pointless, but why should anyone have to do full dex to hit 100% anyway? Though you could argue that if you lower the monsters hit points but increase their evasion so you do need full dex to hit 100% from maybe 50%, then it would be the same as now but dex would become quite useful. (I don't like this system, but it would definitely be a way for a drastic evasion increase to work).

If you need some amount of reasonable dex to increase your hit rate from 75% to 85%, then dex has become quite useful. 1 out of 10 hits for me is a minimum of 400 damage and a maximum of 1800 damage with a mean of probably 600 damage. I don't know how much that means to you but 60 damage (600 divided by the 10 hits) more per hit takes a lot to achieve. I mean I just upgraded my wand and gained about 100 damage more stat wise and only saw an increase of about 5 damage on my lowest attack and maybe 25~40 on my highest. So my system still makes dex very useful without making the game boring or frustrating to deal with.

Like I wrote in that last paragraph, I just want to point out that you can't simply use raw % aim and % damage numbers in this game because damage calculations are not pure. Double damage is a pretty insane increase, not to mention triple damage. Doubling my damage would mean my lowest hit would be for 800 (though I know that's not what you mean since damage would be doubled due to the fact that you'd hit more often, but effectively it's saying the same thing).

[Ryokosha]

That's why I said you didn't really read / understand what I wrote, I want to point out my first sentence again:

Sounds a bit broken because it's that high, however upping the evasion is generally a good idea

[adudefellfast]

That's why I said you didn't really read / understand what I wrote, I want to point out my first sentence again:

Alright, I'll apologize again if that's what you want. All of my previous post was directed at the tail part of your last post, not at your original statement (I was thinking you were giving evidence that rescinded your original statement's first sentence, though now I have no idea what you were doing if not rescinding your first sentence) . I understand what your original statement said now after realizing the mistake I made. Either way, our discussion still helps advance the topic and flush out the idea of reasonable evasion increase.

I'd like our discussion about my misunderstanding you to not hinder the process of posting ideas about the evasion problem, so please let us drop this, or if you're still unsatisfied - thinking that I still misunderstand you completely, then pm me about it. Otherwise, only post evasion related ideas here.

[zerozone01]

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/39/l_a4c56d23bad94cbaa196c766e417aa7f.jpg


I shouldnt miss EVER and i miss all the time.

[MMORPGNERD]

i agree that shouldnt happen zerozone =\ that aim is crazy.

[THr3eS01di3Rs]

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/39/l_a4c56d23bad94cbaa196c766e417aa7f.jpg


I shouldnt miss EVER and i miss all the time.

That really stinks =(

Sure you can fix your the mobs eva problem with BK weapons...but that only fixes everything with PvE...now what happens when you get into PvP? Archers have lost their GREATEST advantage, and now full dex becomes completely useless.\

EDIT: Btw...62 Mil to level!?!? Yikes lol xD

[adudefellfast]

Hopefully they put the evasion at a level where it's playable in 80 abyss after today's patch, though we didn't gain much movement here since barely anyone went in that abyss anyway (due to its already being overpowered). ghs evasion lowering by a slight amount will be nice too, but more doubtful that will happen. We'll probably see just a bunch of spark cash items like Flyff always did/does (unimportant and useless content versus actually improving the game). And YES I mentioned another game name because THAT'S the HORRIBLE game Fiesta is getting closer and closer to mimicking. (And since staff doesn't seem to care about real issues, maybe minor violations will bring them into the important threads -.-).

[CSR_Joker]

Gosh, why so negative? I'm sure you can report problems without so much negativity but OK, I understand you're upset about it.

We reported this problem to our developers already and they are looking into it. Chances are it may get fixed in tonight's patch and if it does not make it tonight, most likely next week.

let's see what happens in a few hours. Thanks for your patience.

[artboi]

Gosh, why so negative? I'm sure you can report problems without so much negativity but OK, I understand you're upset about it.

We reported this problem to our developers already and they are looking into it. Chances are it may get fixed in tonight's patch and if it does not make it tonight, most likely next week.

let's see what happens in a few hours. Thanks for your patience.

at last some feedback :D
thanks joker!

[adudefellfast]

Gosh, why so negative? I'm sure you can report problems without so much negativity but OK, I understand you're upset about it.

We reported this problem to our developers already and they are looking into it. Chances are it may get fixed in tonight's patch and if it does not make it tonight, most likely next week.

let's see what happens in a few hours. Thanks for your patience.

I'm sorry, but if you notice in threads like this where people have put some effort into presenting an idea that is quite sound, there is a complete lack of staff comments on it. There are a lot of people angry about lacks like that, where changes are made or not made and in general no word of what's going on by the developers or the company which 'represents' us. There is that major lack of communication between Outspark and its players. It quite often does seem when large problems are pointed out where the staff tries to intervene by only stating a few short lines (sentences which are either illogical or not liked by the general playerbase) - that said staff entirely abandons the thread, never to be seen or heard from again. The topic eventually dies as it <seems> (since that's the ONLY way it could seem given the circumstance) that they want it to. It dies because the players are shown their love of the game isn't what the company cares about (again by the abandonment of the thread by the staff).

So again, I say sorry, but it seems a negative attitude is all I can carry towards Outspark until policies are enacted or something else is done to grant continuous, and informative, communication between the company and players.

All that said, I'd like to point out that the evasion increase was only the tip of the iceberg, so to speak, of the much larger problem. These kind of issues with the numbers happen too often. A mathematician could easily keep similar problems from happening again.

[zerozone01]

I also over all think... The outspark team ned to communicate with the players more...

Oh and about the GHS evasion O.o I never miss there... then again i am Pure dex lol

[Miazma]

My full STR cleric using a BK mace and T4 scrolls misses in GHS about 10-15% of the time. I can live with that because the exp and rewards are well worth it. My husband is a full STR archer using a BK bow and T4 scrolls and he RARELY misses. Lvl 80-85 the dungeon is supposed to be hard and people should expect to miss.

[adudefellfast]

My full STR cleric using a BK mace and T4 scrolls misses in GHS about 10-15% of the time. I can live with that because the exp and rewards are well worth it. My husband is a full STR archer using a BK bow and T4 scrolls and he RARELY misses. Lvl 80-85 the dungeon is supposed to be hard and people should expect to miss.

Thank you. I have said twice that ghs is about correct in what evasion should be (one of the times in the very first post), and other people have said the same. ghs is not the issue, and if it needs to be lowered, it only needs to be lowered by a very marginal amount. The issue in evasion is that abyss cannot be hit in. The main issue is that there shouldn't be huge problems like they have with randomly tweaking numbers like this.

[Miazma]

Thank you. I have said twice that ghs is about correct in what evasion should be (one of the times in the very first post), and other people have said the same. ghs is not the issue, and if it needs to be lowered, it only needs to be lowered by a very marginal amount. The issue in evasion is that abyss cannot be hit in. The main issue is that there shouldn't be huge problems like they have with randomly tweaking numbers like this.

I cant comment on Abyss because there is no value to me using it. So many times I see high level players making comments about how fiesta are now *babying* lower levels. Whoopiedooo when things get a little hard for the high levels they expect to be *babied* too.

I capped Jadestar BEFORE the changes were made to BR and yep the misses were annoying but we expected at that level things would be harder. Then they made the changes which made BR so easy it was like going to kindergarden. Shellz and Lordie have no problems in BR with the current settings.

We are given what 15 levels to complete the dungeon quests? That should surely indicate that they are meant to be hard.

[adudefellfast]

I cant comment on Abyss because there is no value to me using it. So many times I see high level players making comments about how fiesta are now *babying* lower levels. Whoopiedooo when things get a little hard for the high levels they expect to be *babied* too.

Maybe it seems we expect to be babied right now, but all I really want out of the evasion lowering is the ability to hit monsters in the abyss at a reasonable amount. If you would have tried Abyss after it went up, their evasion is about as high as kidmons were in the hell days of BR. Since there's no other reason to kill things in abyss except as a supplementary area to train, this renders the abyss entirely useless (also stacked with the other high mob stats in abyss, though those aren't unreasonably high like the evasion). I can hit monsters in the abyss 10~15% of the time with t4 aim on and a full dex archer with bk bow and t4 aim hits only 50% of the time.

And again, I think the game's mechanics need to be thought out thoroughly instead of haphazardly. This is the main issue, and this is the reason I started with the evasion increase, as it's the current mathematical error Outspark made.

[Miazma]

WOW well as I said I havent used Abyss but yes I agree. The usual format for Abyss is that the mobs are easier to kill to compensate for the inclusion of pvp.

[zerozone01]

they better fix aybss this patch i send a email to outspark they said it should be fixed now.

[Ryokosha]

I agree that Outspark members should reply to threads more often. I mean during my 8 hour work day I manage to make like 120 posts every day in the meantime while programming! xD

Though I'm pretty sure the lag of reply is caused because everything from the developer is classified information. Or maybe it's just the lack of forum GMs (aka moderators).

[Dragon25k]

Personaly I think the GHS aim, is pretty bad....for at least the Ruby and Crystal Guardians....But other then that it's not to horrible, I still miss 25-30% of the time on the Cores' in that place, but I miss about 40-60% of the time on Ruby/Crystal Guardians.......and I almost got 1.2k aim...which is retarted! ( makes the enjoyment....less.......enjoyable)

They need to lower those 2 mobs Evasion by at least a little bit so people with over 1k aim can still hit them at least 60-70% of the time.

The thing that really made me upset, is for the people (like me) That miss so much that we can't train on those (not saying we have to) but why wouldn't we there the best exp...so yeah, anways.

It makes me upset because they force u to...
A.Change your Build : (Buy stat reset scrolls)
B.Get different armor (with dex) wether or not you can afford it, cause I know I can't!
C. all of the above

I've just always hated when, games force you to have to change your character around, especially when you can't, and if yah can't then all well you got to suffer >_>
Which is idiotic....I know not everyone has these Problems, but seriously....we should'nt have to change, when we can't =/

also about the 80 abyss I wouldn't know...I never go in there..........it's stupid >_>

70 abyss was Mildy dumb....but still nice because it was awesome for money....now they screwed that up to =(

50, 60 abyss was awesome, so many mobs! ah fun times aoeing the biggest rooms by myself, and with mages.... ; ) good times, good times.

[Lord_Gan]

I agree. I miss the old abyss. They ruined it the last time they updated it :(. oh and hi Feanna

[FlashBoom]

I agree they messed up with the drastic dex upgrade....

But it doesnt make the 80abyss/GHS useless, gotta remember mages nova/inferno(100% chance to hit ^^)
Just get pt w/ mages and your fine
I feel so much more useful now >.>

[zerozone01]

And they didnt fix the evasion Grrrr.

[artboi]

csr joker said that if it wasnt fixed this patch, the next one was a definite

[CM_Saphar]

We always pay close attention to the forums and are mindful of players' feedback.

We've checked, double checked, and triple checked, and have been unable to find any new evasion changes to level 80+ monsters.

Our developer partners have verified that they made no changes to monster evasion, and Outspark's dedicated QA team has tested and confirmed this fact.

One possible reason this issue has recently come to the forefront may be because many players simply do not have enough DEX to effectively deal with high level monsters. Our advice is to invest your stat points in DEX and increase your chance to hit.

High level characters can redistribute their stat points using the Stat Reset Scroll in the Fiesta Store, which will be 15% off as part of our Deal of the Day event on Saturday, November 22nd.

We will continue to monitor monster evasion, the forums, and this thread very closely.

[joecracker]

i will confirm, i wish i saved the video i took in there when it was back to normal, now even t4 aim, miss miss miss with 1k aim


Edoit

note thou when u dropped lvl restrictions it went to lower lvls, and once back to restriction on dungons its back up higher again

[NightRyda]

We always pay close attention to the forums and are mindful of players' feedback.

We've checked, double checked, and triple checked, and have been unable to find any new evasion changes to level 80+ monsters.

Our developer partners have verified that they made no changes to monster evasion, and Outspark's dedicated QA team has tested and confirmed this fact.

One possible reason this issue has recently come to the forefront may be because many players simply do not have enough DEX to effectively deal with high level monsters. Our advice is to invest your stat points in DEX and increase your chance to hit.

High level characters can redistribute their stat points using the Stat Reset Scroll in the Fiesta Store, which will be 15% off as part of our Deal of the Day event on Saturday, November 22nd.

We will continue to monitor monster evasion, the forums, and this thread very closely.

You can check all you like but we are the ones that play the game. We know when there is an evasion increase after the patch.

[sarah_c]

We always pay close attention to the forums and are mindful of players' feedback.

We've checked, double checked, and triple checked, and have been unable to find any new evasion changes to level 80+ monsters.

Our developer partners have verified that they made no changes to monster evasion, and Outspark's dedicated QA team has tested and confirmed this fact.

One possible reason this issue has recently come to the forefront may be because many players simply do not have enough DEX to effectively deal with high level monsters. Our advice is to invest your stat points in DEX and increase your chance to hit.

High level characters can redistribute their stat points using the Stat Reset Scroll in the Fiesta Store, which will be 15% off as part of our Deal of the Day event on Saturday, November 22nd.

We will continue to monitor monster evasion, the forums, and this thread very closely.

OHHH yes right......
patch after patch, more and more SC has to be spent inorder to keep up with the game. ya go buy reset stat scroll........
I think the outspark making these changes on purpose.
why?
Maybe dex charm coming out? lol

It has been so annoying that patches are for outspark's own good, but not its dear players.
Uruga is so quie these days....

[TITLE]

Let me get this straight.. Which patch is this thread "currently" relating to?
I'll check out the spots when I have time to comfirm some tests...

[Adrichiang]

We always pay close attention to the forums and are mindful of players' feedback.

We've checked, double checked, and triple checked, and have been unable to find any new evasion changes to level 80+ monsters.

Our developer partners have verified that they made no changes to monster evasion, and Outspark's dedicated QA team has tested and confirmed this fact.

One possible reason this issue has recently come to the forefront may be because many players simply do not have enough DEX to effectively deal with high level monsters. Our advice is to invest your stat points in DEX and increase your chance to hit.

High level characters can redistribute their stat points using the Stat Reset Scroll in the Fiesta Store, which will be 15% off as part of our Deal of the Day event on Saturday, November 22nd.

We will continue to monitor monster evasion, the forums, and this thread very closely.

Dear CM Saphar,

I do not believe there is anything changed from the mobs evasion in Burning Rock through the patches. I think the main complaint would be from the increased evasion in 80+ abyss in which prior to the patch about two weeks ago, I was able to aoe and hit the mobs 90+% of the time using a Tier 3 aim scroll as a capped archer for about 900+ damage when I do a critical on them. Now when I goto 80+ abyss I noticed that the mobs evasion have increased as I do miss 50% or more even with the use of Tier 4 aim scroll and when I do hit them on a critical it does 500+ damage so I know their defense have been increased also.

I really wished that buying several stat reset scrolls would solve the evasion issue of BR mobs since I did reset a lot of my str to dex bonus stats. I find out to my dissappointment I still miss over 50% of the time. So seriously, I find that resetting 40 points into dex to only get maybe 10% increase hitting chance so my misses turn from 60+ to 50% misses is hardly noticable and not not worth the sparkcash I spent in my opinion. Simply put I do not believe the sparkcash I spent is worth the benefit I received from the stat reset scrolls I used because I do hit more now but I hit for less damage. The issue with stat reset scrolls is that is does not give you a definite benefit unlike critical costumes because you trade in one stat (lose it's benefits) to put into another stat (gain it's benefits). One of these days I should really discuss Maslow's theory of needs so advertisers knows what products gives the best benefits to the players without them feeling resentment cause they felt robbed if the product does not solve their issues to their satisfaction. Seriously any player with any job will be very disappointed as reallocating 20, 30, 40, 50, even 60 points into dex would still make them miss so much that they wished they did not waste the money buying all those stat reset scrolls.

Another issue with all the mobs having high evasion, It forces the developers to create level 85/95 weapons with much higher aim compared to the level 70/80 versions to enable players to hit 40% as opposed to 25% even with a blue bow (highest aim blue weapon type for a level 70 weapon). Now these bellow knight's weapons are a nice solution to help solve the Burning Rock mobs with much higher evasion then their level should indicate. For example a Kallop in Helga's Tomb is higher base level mob than Burning Rock but I can hit over 80% using a level 70 blue bow using a Tier 3 aim scroll. But while the Bellow Knights weapons help alleviate the high evasion mobs in Buring Rock a bit, it created another issue in its wake. The solutions you did help Player Versus Environment (PVE) gameplay in Fiesta but it created a big issue for players facing a level 85+ in Player Versus Player (PVP) gameplay as the much higher aim of bellow knight's weapons made evasion or dex useless in PVP matches as the much higher aim of the bellow knight's weapons will be much higher than the evasion bonuses given from stats/armor/evasion scrolls. It used to be at 79 level cap the aim/evasion ratio is fairly balanced between PVE and PVP play that I stand a chance against any job in PVP. Now since I am level 89 capped archer, I get plastered by anyone 85+ using a Bellow Knight's Weapon in a several seconds because every weapon skill they used against me never miss compared to the old 79 cap when 1/3 weapon skills do miss which may be crucial to me staying alive. Basically PVP is no longer fun as it's unbalanced towards jobs that favors high attack power over evasion.

Sincerely,
Ah_Rin

[artboi]

@CM_Saphar

I do not belive any of us are complaining on the evasion on ALL lvl80+ monsters, this is only about the lvl80 abyss which is the most annoying thing ever.
From what you are saying is, that it is only normal for an RPG game to have such a drastic change in the monsters' dificulty in a matter of 10 lvls? from lvl60 abyss to lvl70 abyss sure there is a change in dificult but its not so big to have the players so frustrated that they have started to quit, or just stopped playing while this BUG gets fixed. However, the change in dificult from lvl70abyss to lvl80 abyss was just too big, the margin of dificult within just 10lvls is just so big that it makes the lvl80 abyss nearly unplayable.

Now, I sincirely recommend you fire the guys you asked to test the abyss, for they are not reliable and they do not play the game every day like us (people posting).

[Alexnew03]

We always pay close attention to the forums and are mindful of players' feedback.

We've checked, double checked, and triple checked, and have been unable to find any new evasion changes to level 80+ monsters.

Our developer partners have verified that they made no changes to monster evasion, and Outspark's dedicated QA team has tested and confirmed this fact.

One possible reason this issue has recently come to the forefront may be because many players simply do not have enough DEX to effectively deal with high level monsters. Our advice is to invest your stat points in DEX and increase your chance to hit.

High level characters can redistribute their stat points using the Stat Reset Scroll in the Fiesta Store, which will be 15% off as part of our Deal of the Day event on Saturday, November 22nd.

We will continue to monitor monster evasion, the forums, and this thread very closely.

my gears are end dex and befour the patch i was able to hit 100% on lvl 80 abyss mobs with my bk axe around 850 aim, now after the patch always with the bk axe i miss most of the hits. how can u say there is no evasion change? the evasion of the mobs was perfect befour this last patch, i think is a bug, fix it fast. thanks
and anyway i wont and i dont think any1 will chenge theire build only for the lvl 80 abyss

[overswarm]

We always pay close attention to the forums and are mindful of players' feedback.

We've checked, double checked, and triple checked, and have been unable to find any new evasion changes to level 80+ monsters.

Our developer partners have verified that they made no changes to monster evasion, and Outspark's dedicated QA team has tested and confirmed this fact.

One possible reason this issue has recently come to the forefront may be because many players simply do not have enough DEX to effectively deal with high level monsters. Our advice is to invest your stat points in DEX and increase your chance to hit.

High level characters can redistribute their stat points using the Stat Reset Scroll in the Fiesta Store, which will be 15% off as part of our Deal of the Day event on Saturday, November 22nd.

We will continue to monitor monster evasion, the forums, and this thread very closely.

This is the biggest load of bull that I have ever read. From reading this, it makes it seem as though you've never even been in the lvl 80 abyss in which this is a problem. You should go ahead and fire your "dedicated" QA team as they are not doing their job.

Hmm, I could hit a mob with 850 aim at least 9/10 times from when it was released until when this patch was made, and then all of a sudden I miss 8/10 swings with that same aim? Spending 30 seconds in there you could see there was a change made in the abyss.

So not only are you going to try and tell us that there was no change, but you are going to plug the CS for us to reset our stat points at 5 bucks a pop? Let me go ahead and change my 100+ stat points into dex even though I shouldn't need to.

Go ahead and mod me, delete this post, w/e but this is the worst post I have ever read coming from the OS team.

[Ryokosha]

Man that CM reply and the replies to it make my day.

[adudefellfast]

CM: I will take your post statement by statement, and I'm putting this on the initial post as well.


We always pay close attention to the forums and are mindful of players' feedback.
1) If only based on the number of replies I see by your team in key threads where players either demand a reply or a reply is obviously needed to keep a few people playing the game, then I say your first statement is an outright lie. If it's not, then it is an over exaggeration. A big one at that.

If based not on the number of needed replies, but on the quality of the few replies, then again your statement doesn't hold true. Replies often go to shallow threads where there is barely an issue (points to the long hard to read rant about being disconnected during kq. I guess you may have needed to reply to that...but it sure didn't help much). Otherwise, as seen here, you obviously didn't pay much attention to the content of this thread. Only read the title and not my initial post? There's enough information in the initial post to know I was talking about Abyss (and/or GHS, though most of us agree with bk weapons that is at least playable). But what is your second statement?


We've checked, double checked, and triple checked, and have been unable to find any new evasion changes to level 80+ monsters.
2) It was never the bulk of 80+ monsters that had the problem. It was the abyss and ghs. Please take the small amount of time to read my initial post.


Our developer partners have verified that they made no changes to monster evasion, and Outspark's dedicated QA team has tested and confirmed this fact.
3) Someone is lying, or maybe there's a bug, or heck - maybe someone accidentally fudged a number somewhere. Either way, who cares what those people say. The fact of the matter is: monsters in the abyss can barely be hit. Monsters in ghs gained an increased evasion. Something was changed. Just go test it for yourself.


One possible reason this issue has recently come to the forefront may be because many players simply do not have enough DEX to effectively deal with high level monsters. Our advice is to invest your stat points in DEX and increase your chance to hit.
4) No. What the heck kind of answer is this? You march into my thread and claim, with no evidence whatsoever, that all our evidences are wrong? We're not a bunch of dumb newbie players who don't understand how the hit rate system works. Heck, I again point to my initial post for proof of that. I have a mathematics degree, so I'd sure hope to believe it means at the very least I grasp the concept of more dex = more hit rate. Go look at the full dex archer's picture and his pile of aim and ask him if he can hit those mobs. (50% hit rate good deal for a bunch of dex).


High level characters can redistribute their stat points using the Stat Reset Scroll in the Fiesta Store, which will be 15% off as part of our Deal of the Day event on Saturday, November 22nd.
5) I request this garbage be deleted from my thread. I don't want people stumbling in here wondering about the evasion issue and thinking you've given them a solution. It has already been shown more dex is not the answer. I'm fairly angry you'd even say this junk in a serious discussion like this, so I'm simply going to say you can refer to Adrichiang's post on relation to this.


We will continue to monitor monster evasion, the forums, and this thread very closely.
6) Oh what a great job you've done monitoring, though I won't beat a dead horse by recapping everything I've already said about your wonderful abilities to 'pay attention'.


Conclusion:
I've paid quite a bit of money into this game already, under the delusion that my money was being put to good use furthering what could very well be some of the best base concepts for a free to play mmorpg. Already you've proven to fail in important departments, particularly but not limited to customer relations. If this is the total customer service capability of Outspark... then combined with the signs of your only caring to gouge your customer's wallets as I've seen happen in two other mmorpgs which rose and fell while following the same path you seem to edged towards... I just want to say your comment put me over the edge. I'm going to cap, just to say I've done it in yet another mmorpg, then I'm out of here. You keep feeding lies to your customers, and you continue paying little attention to their real needs while asking for them to pay you to do it, then you guarantee the fall you have coming to you. Good luck with your trying to piece together the splattered remains of a once great game.

[Chaola]

cm: I will take your post statement by statement, and i'm putting this on the initial post as well.


1) if only based on the number of replies i see by your team in key threads where players either demand a reply or a reply is obviously needed to keep a few people playing the game, then i say your first statement is an outright lie. If it's not, then it is an over exaggeration. A big one at that.

If based not on the number of needed replies, but on the quality of the few replies, then again your statement doesn't hold true. Replies often go to shallow threads where there is barely an issue (points to the long hard to read rant about being disconnected during kq. I guess you may have needed to reply to that...but it sure didn't help much). Otherwise, as seen here, you obviously didn't pay much attention to the content of this thread. Only read the title and not my initial post? There's enough information in the initial post to know i was talking about abyss (and/or ghs, though most of us agree with bk weapons that is at least playable). But what is your second statement?


2) it was never the bulk of 80+ monsters that had the problem. It was the abyss and ghs. Please take the small amount of time to read my initial post.


3) someone is lying, or maybe there's a bug, or heck - maybe someone accidentally fudged a number somewhere. Either way, who cares what those people say. The fact of the matter is: Monsters in the abyss can barely be hit. Monsters in ghs gained an increased evasion. Something was changed. Just go test it for yourself.


4) no. What the heck kind of answer is this? You march into my thread and claim, with no evidence whatsoever, that all our evidences are wrong? We're not a bunch of dumb newbie players who don't understand how the hit rate system works. Heck, i again point to my initial post for proof of that. I have a mathematics degree, so i'd sure hope to believe it means at the very least i grasp the concept of more dex = more hit rate. Go look at the full dex archer's picture and his pile of aim and ask him if he can hit those mobs. (50% hit rate good deal for a bunch of dex).


5) i request this garbage be deleted from my thread. I don't want people stumbling in here wondering about the evasion issue and thinking you've given them a solution. It has already been shown more dex is not the answer. I'm fairly angry you'd even say this junk in a serious discussion like this, so i'm simply going to say you can refer to adrichiang's post on relation to this.


6) oh what a great job you've done monitoring, though i won't beat a dead horse by recapping everything i've already said about your wonderful abilities to 'pay attention'.


Conclusion:
I've paid quite a bit of money into this game already, under the delusion that my money was being put to good use furthering what could very well be some of the best base concepts for a free to play mmorpg. Already you've proven to fail in important departments, particularly but not limited to customer relations. If this is the total customer service capability of outspark... Then combined with the signs of your only caring to gouge your customer's wallets as i've seen happen in two other mmorpgs which rose and fell while following the same path you seem to edged towards... I just want to say your comment put me over the edge. I'm going to cap, just to say i've done it in yet another mmorpg, then i'm out of here. You keep feeding lies to your customers, and you continue paying little attention to their real needs while asking for them to pay you to do it, then you guarantee the fall you have coming to you. Good luck with your trying to piece together the splattered remains of a once great game.

qft .

[Hemmes]

Adudefellfast, thx for that, i think with a reply that thorough there is no need to reply to the CM's post. I have no idea on the issues as im ony lvl 50 but that post didnt make sence to me at all either.

Just dont forget to take that deep breath now and then ;)

[adudefellfast]

Adudefellfast, thx for that, i think with a reply that thorough there is no need to reply to the CM's post. I have no idea on the issues as im ony lvl 50 but that post didnt make sence to me at all either.

Just dont forget to take that deep breath now and then ;)

Thank you, but don't worry. I sat here calmly while thoroughly thinking through my response as I typed it. There's no better way to handle a discussion :).

It may seem I was very flustered, but truthfully it feels like I'm seeing the signs of this game's corruption as I've seen in other games before. I'm disgusted to find it here but content that I can bail before it gets really bad. I've already heard many say the only thing holding this game together is the community, so I have to now wish all of you luck and say: I hope you always remember the reason you're here is for your friends, so go do something for them, otherwise they will probably be gone soon.

[skysparkle]

High level characters can redistribute their stat points using the Stat Reset Scroll in the Fiesta Store, which will be 15% off as part of our Deal of the Day event on Saturday, November 22nd.

.

........priceless

[phanthunderrage]

We always pay close attention to the forums and are mindful of players' feedback.

We've checked, double checked, and triple checked, and have been unable to find any new evasion changes to level 80+ monsters.

Our developer partners have verified that they made no changes to monster evasion, and Outspark's dedicated QA team has tested and confirmed this fact.

One possible reason this issue has recently come to the forefront may be because many players simply do not have enough DEX to effectively deal with high level monsters. Our advice is to invest your stat points in DEX and increase your chance to hit.

High level characters can redistribute their stat points using the Stat Reset Scroll in the Fiesta Store, which will be 15% off as part of our Deal of the Day event on Saturday, November 22nd.

We will continue to monitor monster evasion, the forums, and this thread very closely.

This proved that u totally dont know anything about what actually happened.

[Alexnew03]

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/39/l_a4c56d23bad94cbaa196c766e417aa7f.jpg


I shouldnt miss EVER and i miss all the time.

hmmmmm what about him CM?

[Ryokosha]

Oh man that's so good.

"You're only imagining things! Now go buy some stat resets scroll to get more DEX!" XDDDDDD

[pabloking]

=.=

My damage decreased a lot after the patch (or the defense of the mobs increased a lot) and I miss like crazy with my lv80 mace+9, which is supposed to have more Aim than the hammer. I rarely missed and I did decent damage, now my mace+9 is useless and I have to use a statless lv85 mace. Time and money wasted in the mace+9 ! >.<

Please staff, check again, it's quite obvious that there's a new and insane evasion now. Lv80 abyss is useless now due to this.

[zerozone01]

One possible reason this issue has recently come to the forefront may be because many players simply do not have enough DEX to effectively deal with high level monsters. Our advice is to invest your stat points in DEX and increase your chance to hit.



Shall i make a video next?





High level characters can redistribute their stat points using the Stat Reset Scroll in the Fiesta Store, which will be 15% off as part of our Deal of the Day event on Saturday, November 22nd.



I so want to flame this statement........ Outspark seriously how do you expect people to keep paying for a paying (thats free) i you wont take time to fix the issues ?

[artboi]

-------------------------------------------------------
Edits(Most recent first): Added discussion with cm post. Changed some wording to be even more clear than it already was. Added and deleted some discussion with players. Modified wording a bit.
-------------------------------------------------------
The 80 abyss and 80 dungeon have both experienced an increase in evasion for monsters. (Meaning it's harder to hit them if you don't understand somehow). Increasing their evasion is understandable since before, as a 77 mage, I could hit them 100% of the time with just an aim t1 scroll. I'd even say the increase is probably about right in the dungeon, since I can hit the monsters about 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the time with a t3 aim (and 100% with t4). However, the increase in the abyss is NOT good. With t4 aim, I hit around 10~15% of the time against the monsters.

This is pretty ridiculous and means that even at level 8x, I need to use t4s to hit 100% in abyss. Why should we NEED t4 anything to 1v1 non dungeon monsters around our level? That's nonsense.

A side note for the whole aim situation: I find it sort of odd that until mid 60s, I needed nothing more than aim t1 to hit anything reasonable for me to kill for my level at 100%. Then I only needed t2 aim until high 70s in which case I suddenly need to jump to t4 aim when fighting many monsters... T3 useless? I don't know why the huge leap of evasion happens at around level 80, but it certainly doesn't follow how the game has progressed before it.

I think Outspark, or whoever is in charge of these minor stat changes and such, needs to hire a mathematician to calculate for them (or go the long route and do rigorous testing beforehand). If the pay were decent, I could submit my resume for this new position I've pointed out. Regardless if it's me or someone down in California already, you guys desperately need a mathematician tester on your staff to find and fix these simple errors before you release a patch.

===========================
Added after discussion:
===========================

One can make the game harder without making it impossible. Level 80+ should still be fun, not a damn job.

There isn't much of an increase in aim from 70 to 80 weapons (actually none if I switched to a green wand from my blue wand), so I'm dishing out the same aim as a level 70. Yea, the aim increase is huge on the 85 stuff, so it should make up for it, but apparently it doesn't in abyss/dungeon as people have pointed out.

A big point to make here is the eventual worthlessness of aim scrolls. I've seen the orange weapons and 95 greens before, but thanks for those pictures for others to have a comparison. With 1000~2000+ aim added from weapons, what's a worthless few hundred from a scroll going to matter? Nothing at all. So to get this straight...we use t1 and t2 aim until level 80, then t3 aim is useless. So we use t4 aim until 95, then never again need aim scrolls? The whole game's mechanics are ill conceived.

I also wonder, will equipment evasion after 90 be INSANELY high to match the aim of those weapons, or are players never again going to be able to dodge each others hits? Guess archers avoid pvp after 95?

How about hiring a mathematician?

=================================



For a low hit character, still hitting 70~80% of the time should be the norm (with decent scrolls on I mean). This means mid range aim players would be hitting about 81~90% of the time and high aim players would hit 91%~100% of the time. If nothing else, you could compare such percents to scholastic grading where most players fall into the 'C' range of 70~80% hit rate, while some, as their aim is increased by various means, move up to the B and A ranges. If it were done like this, THEN we could scream all we want that causes balance. Non dex classes should not have less than a 50~60% hit rate, though even that low makes the game nearly unplayable.


=================================================
Discussion with CM:
=================================================
CM: I will take your post statement by statement, and I'm putting this on the initial post as well.


1) If only based on the number of replies I see by your team in key threads where players either demand a reply or a reply is obviously needed to keep a few people playing the game, then I say your first statement is an outright lie. If it's not, then it is an over exaggeration. A big one at that.

If based not on the number of needed replies, but on the quality of the few replies, then again your statement doesn't hold true. Replies often go to shallow threads where there is barely an issue (points to the long hard to read rant about being disconnected during kq. I guess you may have needed to reply to that...but it sure didn't help much). Otherwise, as seen here, you obviously didn't pay much attention to the content of this thread. Only read the title and not my initial post? There's enough information in the initial post to know I was talking about Abyss (and/or GHS, though most of us agree with bk weapons that is at least playable). But what is your second statement?


2) It was never the bulk of 80+ monsters that had the problem. It was the abyss and ghs. Please take the small amount of time to read my initial post.


3) Someone is lying, or maybe there's a bug, or heck - maybe someone accidentally fudged a number somewhere. Either way, who cares what those people say. The fact of the matter is: monsters in the abyss can barely be hit. Monsters in ghs gained an increased evasion. Something was changed. Just go test it for yourself.


4) No. What the heck kind of answer is this? You march into my thread and claim, with no evidence whatsoever, that all our evidences are wrong? We're not a bunch of dumb newbie players who don't understand how the hit rate system works. Heck, I again point to my initial post for proof of that. I have a mathematics degree, so I'd sure hope to believe it means at the very least I grasp the concept of more dex = more hit rate. Go look at the full dex archer's picture and his pile of aim and ask him if he can hit those mobs. (50% hit rate good deal for a bunch of dex).


5) I request this garbage be deleted from my thread. I don't want people stumbling in here wondering about the evasion issue and thinking you've given them a solution. It has already been shown more dex is not the answer. I'm fairly angry you'd even say this junk in a serious discussion like this, so I'm simply going to say you can refer to Adrichiang's post on relation to this.


6) Oh what a great job you've done monitoring, though I won't beat a dead horse by recapping everything I've already said about your wonderful abilities to 'pay attention'.


Conclusion:
I've paid quite a bit of money into this game already, under the delusion that my money was being put to good use furthering what could very well be some of the best base concepts for a free to play mmorpg. Already you've proven to fail in important departments, particularly but not limited to customer relations. If this is the total customer service capability of Outspark... then combined with the signs of your only caring to gouge your customer's wallets as I've seen happen in two other mmorpgs which rose and fell while following the same path you seem to edged towards... I just want to say your comment put me over the edge. I'm going to cap, just to say I've done it in yet another mmorpg, then I'm out of here. You keep feeding lies to your customers, and you continue paying little attention to their real needs while asking for them to pay you to do it, then you guarantee the fall you have coming to you. Good luck with your trying to piece together the splattered remains of a once great game.

oh....my...god....
sign my shirt man, after this fine, fine, FINE arguement i doubt that CM will show himself in here, you are my hero.

[Fuzzz]

lol Yea amazing debate.. sign my shirt too! :D

[DincaTinel]

Wooooooooooooooot ur sig is so nice im loving it how did u changed the text so good aniway im loving itttttttttttttt


http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff239/Masterseto/brmess1.jpg

[sbr999]

Hmmmm mobs first (when they opened BR) had crazy amount of evasion (BR bug report section which was removed:rolleyes: *wonders why*) then after the lvl limit removal from BG-dungeon patch (which was pretty popular LOL) they reduced mobs evasion to 0 (no misses with 1.3k aim nor with 700) but gave mobs über-high DMG, 80BG mobs dmg was fine and evasion none as well. But now BG mobs are being missed a lot lol 1.3k-1.4k aim....losing more money in bg then earning lol (read:SP stones &aim scroll).....How can CM say there was no change? rofl.. And buy stat reset what kind of answer is that lmao.


(Pabloking...your siggy looks like copy of my siggy i made when i capped =[
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh147/sbr666/oO.jpg
....I sue)

[Hakai_Miko]

CM: I will take your post statement by statement, and I'm putting this on the initial post as well.


1) If only based on the number of replies I see by your team in key threads where players either demand a reply or a reply is obviously needed to keep a few people playing the game, then I say your first statement is an outright lie. If it's not, then it is an over exaggeration. A big one at that.

If based not on the number of needed replies, but on the quality of the few replies, then again your statement doesn't hold true. Replies often go to shallow threads where there is barely an issue (points to the long hard to read rant about being disconnected during kq. I guess you may have needed to reply to that...but it sure didn't help much). Otherwise, as seen here, you obviously didn't pay much attention to the content of this thread. Only read the title and not my initial post? There's enough information in the initial post to know I was talking about Abyss (and/or GHS, though most of us agree with bk weapons that is at least playable). But what is your second statement?


2) It was never the bulk of 80+ monsters that had the problem. It was the abyss and ghs. Please take the small amount of time to read my initial post.


3) Someone is lying, or maybe there's a bug, or heck - maybe someone accidentally fudged a number somewhere. Either way, who cares what those people say. The fact of the matter is: monsters in the abyss can barely be hit. Monsters in ghs gained an increased evasion. Something was changed. Just go test it for yourself.


4) No. What the heck kind of answer is this? You march into my thread and claim, with no evidence whatsoever, that all our evidences are wrong? We're not a bunch of dumb newbie players who don't understand how the hit rate system works. Heck, I again point to my initial post for proof of that. I have a mathematics degree, so I'd sure hope to believe it means at the very least I grasp the concept of more dex = more hit rate. Go look at the full dex archer's picture and his pile of aim and ask him if he can hit those mobs. (50% hit rate good deal for a bunch of dex).


5) I request this garbage be deleted from my thread. I don't want people stumbling in here wondering about the evasion issue and thinking you've given them a solution. It has already been shown more dex is not the answer. I'm fairly angry you'd even say this junk in a serious discussion like this, so I'm simply going to say you can refer to Adrichiang's post on relation to this.


6) Oh what a great job you've done monitoring, though I won't beat a dead horse by recapping everything I've already said about your wonderful abilities to 'pay attention'.


Conclusion:
I've paid quite a bit of money into this game already, under the delusion that my money was being put to good use furthering what could very well be some of the best base concepts for a free to play mmorpg. Already you've proven to fail in important departments, particularly but not limited to customer relations. If this is the total customer service capability of Outspark... then combined with the signs of your only caring to gouge your customer's wallets as I've seen happen in two other mmorpgs which rose and fell while following the same path you seem to edged towards... I just want to say your comment put me over the edge. I'm going to cap, just to say I've done it in yet another mmorpg, then I'm out of here. You keep feeding lies to your customers, and you continue paying little attention to their real needs while asking for them to pay you to do it, then you guarantee the fall you have coming to you. Good luck with your trying to piece together the splattered remains of a once great game.

I cant believe he didn't even notice we are NOT complaining about general 8x monsters, but the abyss/GHS ones, sure they will check million times they BR monsters average evasion, and keep wasting time on it when they could have saved themselves all that effort and take few minutes to actually read the WHOLE post, which I think is such a wonderful source of all the feebacks the players affected by this issue could have post/post in the future.


PD. sign my shirt too =D

[zerozone01]

After Ranting. the eva in aybbs has be lower a lil bit... Keep in mind i have 1700 aim... my accuracy is now about 90%

[Fuzzz]

High level characters can redistribute their stat points using the Stat Reset Scroll in the Fiesta Store, which will be 15% off as part of our Deal of the Day event on Saturday, November 22nd.



*Jaw drops* I still cant believe that was said..




Another issue with all the mobs having high evasion, It forces the developers to create level 85/95 weapons with much higher aim compared to the level 70/80 versions to enable players to hit 40% as opposed to 25% even with a blue bow (highest aim blue weapon type for a level 70 weapon). Now these bellow knight's weapons are a nice solution to help solve the Burning Rock mobs with much higher evasion then their level should indicate. For example a Kallop in Helga's Tomb is higher base level mob than Burning Rock but I can hit over 80% using a level 70 blue bow using a Tier 3 aim scroll. But while the Bellow Knights weapons help alleviate the high evasion mobs in Buring Rock a bit, it created another issue in its wake. The solutions you did help Player Versus Environment (PVE) gameplay in Fiesta but it created a big issue for players facing a level 85+ in Player Versus Player (PVP) gameplay as the much higher aim of bellow knight's weapons made evasion or dex useless in PVP matches as the much higher aim of the bellow knight's weapons will be much higher than the evasion bonuses given from stats/armor/evasion scrolls. It used to be at 79 level cap the aim/evasion ratio is fairly balanced between PVE and PVP play that I stand a chance against any job in PVP. Now since I am level 89 capped archer, I get plastered by anyone 85+ using a Bellow Knight's Weapon in a several seconds because every weapon skill they used against me never miss compared to the old 79 cap when 1/3 weapon skills do miss which may be crucial to me staying alive. Basically PVP is no longer fun as it's unbalanced towards jobs that favors high attack power over evasion.

Sincerely,
Ah_Rin

Im not lv8x yet, but this does concern me considering my build.. :x I hope something is done about this.

[zerozone01]

http://video.xfire.com/45a2f-4.jpg (http://www.xfire.com/video/45a2f/)

and

http://video.xfire.com/45a2b-4.jpg (http://www.xfire.com/video/45a2b/)


sorry or a poor gameplay xfire make my computer lag with it video thing >.>

[CM_Saphar]

To clarify: We realize players' are concerned with evasion changes to level 80+ monsters specifically in the Abyss and GHS. Our developer partners and QA team are aware of these concerns, but were unable to find any recent changes to evasion rates. Obviously we are not done testing or monitoring this issue, but as of right now we have been unable to identify the evasion problems players are experiencing.

[Fuzzz]

Can i ask about the BK weapons? Apparently the aim on them is so high it makes DEX useless when it comes to PVP poor archers D: and -cough- other DEX builds ^^...

[pabloking]

Can i ask about the BK weapons? Apparently the aim on them is so high it makes DEX useless when it comes to PVP poor archers D: and -cough- other DEX builds ^^...

I use my bk mace and I never miss but I cant use my enhanced mace anymore :( BK mace is nice but its statless =.= But yes, it helps, even with low dex, since it increases your aim a lot.


.


(Pabloking...your siggy looks like copy of my siggy i made when i capped =[
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh147/sbr666/oO.jpg
....I sue)

I never saw your siggy o.o I made my siggy one day I was really frustrated....

PS: Sorry if you had the idea first but I repeat, I did not see your siggy so I did not copy.

[adudefellfast]

What's with this shirt signing guys? haha I simply typed what needed to be said, nothing more :p


To clarify: We realize players' are concerned with evasion changes to level 80+ monsters specifically in the Abyss and GHS. Our developer partners and QA team are aware of these concerns, but were unable to find any recent changes to evasion rates. Obviously we are not done testing or monitoring this issue, but as of right now we have been unable to identify the evasion problems players are experiencing.

Thank you for clarifying that point, as it was not at all what you said originally. I'll say with the little faith I have now in Outspark responses, that I believe you may not have realized it was the abyss/ghs I was discussing until after our discussions about your failure to read the initial post. Your last post was pretty ridiculous considering the comments attempting to discredit our understanding of the game and claiming we should spend money to fix our characters. There's actually little way anyone can read that post of yours and believe you knew we were discussing the insanity in abyss, even after you now say you do. Either way, now that we're on the same page, hopefully we can work together to figure out what went wrong.

If it helps anything, the changes happened two weeks ago: in the patch directly before the date the initial post was made. I had checked abyss immediately after that patch, since the abyss is always the very first place I check to see if there's any changes. I also noticed the 80 abyss mage monster damage was lowered at the same time (thankfully).

In case you read this post Saphar, I would really like you to also read Adrichiang's post about the evasion issue in pvp versus bk weapons. That is an ongoing problem which needs to be addressed as much as, if not more than, the abyss evasion issue. That problem points even more towards the need for a mathematical mind in your company because it seems all weapons 85+ were slapped with high aim for little reason other than to fix evasion issues which shouldn't exist in the first place.

I have quoted her post here. Please take the time to read the entire three paragraphs:


Dear CM Saphar,

I do not believe there is anything changed from the mobs evasion in Burning Rock through the patches. I think the main complaint would be from the increased evasion in 80+ abyss in which prior to the patch about two weeks ago, I was able to aoe and hit the mobs 90+% of the time using a Tier 3 aim scroll as a capped archer for about 900+ damage when I do a critical on them. Now when I goto 80+ abyss I noticed that the mobs evasion have increased as I do miss 50% or more even with the use of Tier 4 aim scroll and when I do hit them on a critical it does 500+ damage so I know their defense have been increased also.

I really wished that buying several stat reset scrolls would solve the evasion issue of BR mobs since I did reset a lot of my str to dex bonus stats. I find out to my dissappointment I still miss over 50% of the time. So seriously, I find that resetting 40 points into dex to only get maybe 10% increase hitting chance so my misses turn from 60+ to 50% misses is hardly noticable and not not worth the sparkcash I spent in my opinion. Simply put I do not believe the sparkcash I spent is worth the benefit I received from the stat reset scrolls I used because I do hit more now but I hit for less damage. The issue with stat reset scrolls is that is does not give you a definite benefit unlike critical costumes because you trade in one stat (lose it's benefits) to put into another stat (gain it's benefits). One of these days I should really discuss Maslow's theory of needs so advertisers knows what products gives the best benefits to the players without them feeling resentment cause they felt robbed if the product does not solve their issues to their satisfaction. Seriously any player with any job will be very disappointed as reallocating 20, 30, 40, 50, even 60 points into dex would still make them miss so much that they wished they did not waste the money buying all those stat reset scrolls.

Another issue with all the mobs having high evasion, It forces the developers to create level 85/95 weapons with much higher aim compared to the level 70/80 versions to enable players to hit 40% as opposed to 25% even with a blue bow (highest aim blue weapon type for a level 70 weapon). Now these bellow knight's weapons are a nice solution to help solve the Burning Rock mobs with much higher evasion then their level should indicate. For example a Kallop in Helga's Tomb is higher base level mob than Burning Rock but I can hit over 80% using a level 70 blue bow using a Tier 3 aim scroll. But while the Bellow Knights weapons help alleviate the high evasion mobs in Buring Rock a bit, it created another issue in its wake. The solutions you did help Player Versus Environment (PVE) gameplay in Fiesta but it created a big issue for players facing a level 85+ in Player Versus Player (PVP) gameplay as the much higher aim of bellow knight's weapons made evasion or dex useless in PVP matches as the much higher aim of the bellow knight's weapons will be much higher than the evasion bonuses given from stats/armor/evasion scrolls. It used to be at 79 level cap the aim/evasion ratio is fairly balanced between PVE and PVP play that I stand a chance against any job in PVP. Now since I am level 89 capped archer, I get plastered by anyone 85+ using a Bellow Knight's Weapon in a several seconds because every weapon skill they used against me never miss compared to the old 79 cap when 1/3 weapon skills do miss which may be crucial to me staying alive. Basically PVP is no longer fun as it's unbalanced towards jobs that favors high attack power over evasion.

Sincerely,
Ah_Rin

[Hakai_Miko]

yeah, but to use the right words and being as clear as you have been it's something worth enough to ask someone for a sign x)!
Thank You for raisin' your voice out loud and saying what really needed to be said~

[Krusnik02]

Posting Removed

[artboi]

To clarify: We realize players' are concerned with evasion changes to level 80+ monsters specifically in the Abyss and GHS. Our developer partners and QA team are aware of these concerns, but were unable to find any recent changes to evasion rates. Obviously we are not done testing or monitoring this issue, but as of right now we have been unable to identify the evasion problems players are experiencing.

Im just angry at your first post of how we should buy more money to make the abyss more playable for us.
That dumb comment could have cost you your job, if i was the one in charge of the company.

[Fuzzz]

Im just angry at your first post of how we should buy more money to make the abyss more playable for us.
That dumb comment could have cost you your job, if i was the one in charge of the company.


Were all angry at that comment, i think my mouth literally dropped when i was reading it but anyway, whats done is done and hopefully we will see some effort and alot of improvement put into this situation from the Outspark Community.

P.S Love the siggy artboi :D

[artboi]

Were all angry at that comment, i think my mouth literally dropped when i was reading it but anyway, whats done is done and hopefully we will see some effort and alot of improvement put into this situation from the Outspark Community.

P.S Love the siggy artboi :D

thanks :D
hard to keep calm when i see people like this CM that made a very stupid remark, clearly not qualified to run a job of a GM/CM/CSR

[adudefellfast]

thanks :D
hard to keep calm when i see people like this CM that made a very stupid remark, clearly not qualified to run a job of a GM/CM/CSR

We're all quite irritated at the CM's comments, and I don't know if we could ever feel we've expressed that irritation enough. However let us get back to the discussion about the various evasion issues. (Though it seems this thread has also become the place to discuss issues with Outspark's community relations, in which case rants against the CM's post do fit here).

I sincerely hope that not only are the evasion issues Adrichiang and I have pointed out are fixed, but I also hope the Outspark staff gains a bit of insight as to how to read and understand the needs of their players. Whether these two issues are fixed or not, this is just the the tip of a whole list of problems we could bring up and cause a ruckus about, all of which I'm starting to wonder if Outspark even knows exist. Do you guys live in the clouds?

At least the clouds have parted a little ways and you can see the growing, yet peaceful, riot we're causing about one of your problems. Please figure out and fix the abyss/ghs evasion issue on the next patch and continue the discussion here about the bk weapon's evasion effect on pvp as Adrichiang posted about.

[KateeHellen]

MY TALKING POINT* 11.22
GLOBAL PROBLEMS IN REGARD OUTSPARK STAFF AND PLAYERS.

Sometimes i wish that OS hire spokesman or woman to communicate whit us, however i am not surprised sudden change in Saphar's statement.
He known that he say one word too much <CS remark> and in order to calm down situation he reverse "cat over his tail" and tell us that staff is aware over evasion problem.
That is nothing more as clear PR* move because they are now realize that instead of calm down critical voices are louder and louder.
I already give up to any attempt to find a logical pattern in OS behavior but i think Saphar's previous post show clear at least one thing.
CS on the first place... that is perhaps rule number one, i known that soon many will post "CS help to keep this game free", i will not argue whit that but so far all i see is that <sometimes big> money witch many of players pay in current situation are mostly wasted by irrational staff moves.
If i will pay for game i may at least expect that my money will be invested in new in game maps addons, skills, weapons and even some extra in game armors or clothes, so in other words in game improvements not Cash shop improvements.
In last period of time i have little time to rethink couple aspects regard patches.
But major issue for me is that from what i remember once was say that after reciving patch from Korea OS put him to net, then if there occured problems <what rise question -Did OnsOnSoft do not run simple test run before releasing such patch?, and answer is somewhat troubling -Apparently not.
Because simple test run in game enviroment will uncover any bugs (assuming that OnSOnSoft have Test Game Modules and Patches departament)> but right now we face situations witch usually bugged patch is deinstaled and send back to Korea for bugs checking and circle spin an spin.
And that bring us back at "our" game backyard.
Apparently OS also do not run patch tests before implementation to game and even they do then i have fellings that all purposes of such tests is to check if they will work at all without digging inside content.
Perhaps i am wrong but so far almost all patches have bugs <light or heavy> witch were easy to discover during simple one day control test whit regular in game characters not characters modifed by staff.
Maybe it is time for OS to consider enact so called "Steady Patch Test Group"?.
I am sure that it is possible to find for example 20 players <from lvl 20 till 89> able to do such test runs in order to spare time and nerves for both sides.
To end this Talking point i want to say.
There is still time to reverse negative movements in Fiesta but soon we my reach point of no return behind witch will be nothing more as casual sand box MMO game.
But i will ask once again IS this really such future we want for fiesta?

AND THAT IS THE MEMO.
__________________________________________________ ____________
*All Credits for Bill O'Reilly from Fox News and his TY and Radio Factors :).

[joecracker]

To clarify: We realize players' are concerned with evasion changes to level 80+ monsters specifically in the Abyss and GHS. Our developer partners and QA team are aware of these concerns, but were unable to find any recent changes to evasion rates. Obviously we are not done testing or monitoring this issue, but as of right now we have been unable to identify the evasion problems players are experiencing.



remove the lvl restirctions in the dungon like you did on that one patch i bet they go back down, thats when it happened, and went back up since locked again, at least thats what i rememebr :)

[zerozone01]

they shouldnt have removed the effing level limits in the first place. Now you get lv 6x and such in high aybss geting made cuz you killed them lol

[TITLE]

This thread now fits more into Feeb Backs thread... Perhaps they will read it more if taken to spots where they are more willing to view. -cough- Double post -cough- Lol.

[KateeHellen]

This thread now fits more into Feeb Backs thread... Perhaps they will read it more if taken to spots where they are more willing to view. -cough- Double post -cough- Lol.

IF this thread end in Feedback section he will end like patch feedback... forgotten by those who should pay attention.

[adudefellfast]

This thread now fits more into Feeb Backs thread... Perhaps they will read it more if taken to spots where they are more willing to view. -cough- Double post -cough- Lol.

I have a near clone of this thread in Feedback section with a more long term goal in mind, a goal similar to what Katee was saying about adding a tester to their staff (though Katee says to add a crew of players while I say add a mathematician, either way, the job gets done). Guess what? That thread hasn't gotten any OS attention whatsoever. This one has. Does this give more proof that they don't pay attention to the forums? Possibly. If not, it at least shows that if they do pay attention, then they are arrogant for their lack of responses.

Katee also brings up another great point. We can still turn this game around. OS, you have needed to sit down and give some critical thought as to how to improve your game, and you've needed to do it for a long time. Now, it's nearing the point of no return, where you'll be left with only those players who can't leave out of friendships (and also a large group of 10 year old children who don't know what's going on). You think those people are going to pay for your game? Hardly. You screw your players over, but you're only screwing yourself. It's obvious to the players that your current teams are inadequate. In the mmo business, your clients may not always be right, but a large percent of them know more about what's going on in your game than you could ever imagine to. Why can't you see this?

[KateeHellen]

I have a near clone of this thread in Feedback section with a more long term goal in mind, a goal similar to what Katee was saying about adding a tester to their staff (though Katee says to add a crew of players while I say add a mathematician, either way, the job gets done). Guess what? That thread hasn't gotten any OS attention whatsoever. This one has. Does this give more proof that they don't pay attention to the forums? Possibly. If not, it at least shows that if they do pay attention, then they are arrogant for their lack of responses.

Katee also brings up another great point. We can still turn this game around. OS, you have needed to sit down and give some critical thought as to how to improve your game, and you've needed to do it for a long time. Now, it's nearing the point of no return, where you'll be left with only those players who can't leave out of friendships (and also a large group of 10 year old children who don't know what's going on). You think those people are going to pay for your game? Hardly. You screw your players over, but you're only screwing yourself. It's obvious to the players that your current teams are inadequate. In the mmo business, your clients may not always be right, but a large percent of them know more about what's going on in your game than you could ever imagine to. Why can't you see this?

Thank you.
I have not expected that "My Talking Point" can be worth a single copper :)
And after little deliberation i reach conclusion that we players are already can be consider as such test group <since birds singing that Fiesta is still Open Beta> but there lay a huge major hack...
OS defiantly refuse to hear our voices of concern.
As for your idea, OS have perfect cover not to do this "Our license forbid us to make any changes in game codes, all we can do is deinstalled patch and send back to Korea." so in other words circle without end...
Honestly i do not think that there still is a chance for Fiesta and i start to be really worried over Blackshot.
Perhaps i am wrong but i think BS can become a game oriented ONLY for CS users.
I really wish that at least this game will be free from CS influence but i think it is too late.
But that will be subject for another "My Talking Point" in nearest future :)<I must first gather some informations;)>.

[apoplegiason]

i still dont know how if there are so many complains about fiesta, the same ppl from 1 year ago is still playing and buying lots and lots of SC



Perhaps i am wrong but i think BS can become a game oriented ONLY for CS users.


thats gonna happen...

[KateeHellen]

i still dont know how if there are so many complains about fiesta, the same ppl from 1 year ago is still playing and buying lots and lots of SC



thats gonna happen...

*Shiver...* then i have very bad fellings about this.
And about Fiesta veterans... perhaps someone who have much larger knowlegde in this issue can answer how many of them still play, but we complain because we do not want that Fiesta will end forgotten somewere in third part of Free MMO list.

[TITLE]

There's enough Veterians out there to be capped, retired, quitted, and roaming the game. Summing it up, a lot are still hanging around "hoping" this game will get back on it's feet, like before the mid of '08.

[Hakai_Miko]

and we will keep hoping so...
=)

[adudefellfast]

So does anyone think we will be getting more replies by Outspark staff? I mean we know it's not out of the ordinary for them to give a couple cheap replies here and there like they have in this thread then abandon us when we ask them to give substantial replies, but I'll try to hold onto the hope that's not the case here.

At least for the issue of the abyss and ghs evasion, we will see how much they have done come Tuesday (weekly maintenance), but I really wish to have an actual discussion with OS to try getting our voice heard more often. Their clients really should be their main focus.

[beastphantomz]

So does anyone think we will be getting more replies by Outspark staff? I mean we know it's not out of the ordinary for them to give a couple cheap replies here and there like they have in this thread then abandon us when we ask them to give substantial replies, but I'll try to hold onto the hope that's not the case here.

At least for the issue of the abyss and ghs evasion, we will see how much they have done come Tuesday (weekly maintenance), but I really wish to have an actual discussion with OS to try getting our voice heard more often. Their clients really should be their main focus.

Its kinda weird that not many replies and i can say never from OS staff regarding any bad side of this game. But if u guys noticed, if its regarding SC, they will answer automatically. Well, i wonder is it because of the GM's who work on some section act differently depends on how active they are on the section, or they just lazy to read n find out, or rather dont care much as long as ppl buy sc. Well, idk :(

[apoplegiason]

correct me if im wrong cuz i havnt play since the blue kq bug

a)the abys restriction dissapeared making a killfest there and now low lvls need a "booster" to be able to defend themselfs of the higher lvls
*now is needed extenders,charms, etc

b)the lack of mats making a unbalance on the economy
*i wont about this one cuz i havnt play in long time but as far as i know the main ways to make some gold in the game was making scrolls(wich now must be hard), selling stuffs(wich hav low rate) and enchant (wich needs tons of SC)

c)the eva of the lvl 8x abys monsters has been insanely increased making them need also a "booster" to kill those monsters
*who knows if is a bug or was increased making it look like a bug, making the high lvl buy stat reset and SC stuffs

d)the lack of answer of the OS staff
*the gms never gave a response to the "100 pages" thread feedback and the only answer to the increased eva was "buy more SC and redistribute ur points"

e)events
*most of the recent events has been only discounts on the cash store, and the actual event is a discount on the extenders/bless/stat reset wich are what the abys ppl is needing now due the recent changes on the game...

f)blue sets
*the blue sets wich give skills and stats benefits with the old sets sprites, looks ugly but lot of ppl will want their own blue set +9 right?

this looks more like a way to make us buy more cash to enjoy at 100% the game...

[skysparkle]

yup that pretty much sums it up :(

[Chaola]

So does anyone think we will be getting more replies by Outspark staff? I mean we know it's not out of the ordinary for them to give a couple cheap replies here and there like they have in this thread then abandon us when we ask them to give substantial replies, but I'll try to hold onto the hope that's not the case here.

At least for the issue of the abyss and ghs evasion, we will see how much they have done come Tuesday (weekly maintenance), but I really wish to have an actual discussion with OS to try getting our voice heard more often. Their clients really should be their main focus.

We have been asked more communications from them since months...

And no change... Appart from the weekly new SC item add, of course...

[adudefellfast]

I was hoping that they hadn't ignored us - that they simply pulled their 'we won't respond but do something in the background' routine and fixed the evasion in abyss on this patch without telling us. I just checked - it hasn't been changed. 4/10~6/10 is my consistent hit rate with bk weapon and t4 aim. I also have two parts of equipment that add 3x dex, not that it matters too much, but it's some amount more aim to add.

The abyss is still unplayable by classes who aren't created as pure aim classes. Even those have pointed out that it's not worth going there.

Please friggen listen now and test the abyss with a player character on the current servers then fix it.

[Chaola]

*sighs*

I had the same hope, but you just crushed it

I wonder, what is the point in going 80 ?

I left my fighter at 79 for now nearly 2 months, been leveling my mage, waiting for OS to do something good for the 8x... A few times I was tempted to start my way toward cap, but nothing really seems to get me do it, appart the fact to be able to tell that I have a capped char... But what is the point in that ?

Unlike the old 79 capped players, before the 89 cap, you don't have anything to do, no KQ, no farming mats...

[Ryokosha]

Actually there's a KQ for level 80-99 you can do when capped. And you can always try to get items / mats even at level 89. Abyss is not the only place where items drop y'know.

[Chaola]

The GM KQ never fills...

Because you get the same exp as the KKP KQ (the 7x KQ) and the chests are empty, or poor in mats...

[Ryokosha]

Well, level 80+ should be harder to level in than pre-80 for the challenge (intentional). That it never fills is not really the fault of the game. Just get some people to join it with you (at that level you should have enough friends already). It's not very rewarding but it's fun to do if you get enough people. Plus you talked about being capped, so not getting exp is not really an issue at all because you could care less about exp. If you are capped you play it only for fun and you can't really say that Gordon isn't fun if you ignore the rewards.

[nofeardnk]

Well, level 80+ should be harder to level in than pre-80 for the challenge (intentional). That it never fills is not really the fault of the game. Just get some people to join it with you (at that level you should have enough friends already). It's not very rewarding but it's fun to do if you get enough people. Plus you talked about being capped, so not getting exp is not really an issue at all because you could care less about exp. If you are capped you play it only for fun and you can't really say that Gordon isn't fun if you ignore the rewards.

Do u have a capped char? Cause u know nothing about hows it.

To be able to solo mobs that drops 8x green effectively u gotta scroll up(multiple t4s), and its way harder to kill -> less mobs killed -> less greens while lvl 70-80 can kill nixes or lk for greens(so easy my 7x fighter or mage can solo whole lk field with easy only need t3 scrolls def) 89s cant , all we do is spend money without making any. Farm for mats? in the abyss of the miss? no ty. Get ur facts right.
And doing gm is fun but after 10 times of no reward its about time to quit. I dont have that much time and money to waste.

[adudefellfast]

Gordon isn't fun, ignoring the rewards. Gordon was fun the first couple times of doing it. No repetitive gameplay continues to be fun. Rewards are the only thing that would make it worthwhile. Besides, at cap the only thing you can do to help your character out is gain money and/or materials (to either gain money with or to increase your production skills, which ends up making money too).

It's already a challenge to level up 8x due to the seemingly exponential increase in experience need per level (not exactly exponential but it certainly isn't linear). To gain the same amount of experience from gordon as kkp...well it makes no sense. It's not as if gaining 3x the amount (or 300k) would make gordon a worthy way to grind fast. It would give a slight incentive to want to go though, which is all anyone asks for. The material issue is far more important to worry about than the experience issue though, so let us forget it until that one is resolved.

I digress from the main problem at hand here though. Evasion in abyss, the one other place 8x can go to not deal with the monotony of kidmon/jewel tree repeats, makes level 8x even more boring than it should be.

[KateeHellen]

<Free Bump> :)

[panamalithg]

omg AIM 2894..... my eva 568 iam level 80 -.- archer need more EVA

[CM_Saphar]

I wanted to provide everyone with a status update.

Our QA team is rigorously re-testing the 8x evasion right now, paying extra attention to the evasion rates of monsters in the Abyss and GHS. They are working with our developer partners to verify that the evasion changes players are reporting are present.

We'll let you know what we find.

[link82650]

saphar rulez \m/(^.^)\m/ and yea we need a little mre eva XD

[THr3eS01di3Rs]

I wanted to provide everyone with a status update.

Our QA team is rigorously re-testing the 8x evasion right now, paying extra attention to the evasion rates of monsters in the Abyss and GHS. They are working with our developer partners to verify that the evasion changes players are reporting are present.

We'll let you know what we find.

I just dont like the BK weapons...sure they have great aim but that benifits all the other classes besides archers. What used to be our greatest strenght and wht we are known for is now obsolete and thats another strike in our ability to PvP well.

Why not take out the BK weapons and just keep things going the way they were? Monsters get more eva eatch level and the players get more aim with eatch level. Archers shouldnt lose their eva from these BK weapons >.>

[Chaola]

I just dont like the BK weapons...sure they have great aim but that benifits all the other classes besides archers. What used to be our greatest strenght and wht we are known for is now obsolete and thats another strike in our ability to PvP well.

Why not take out the BK weapons and just keep things going the way they were? Monsters get more eva eatch level and the players get more aim with eatch level. Archers shouldnt lose their eva from these BK weapons >.>

I kind of agree with that.

Archers don't really have any advantages with the way Fiesta is designed... BK weapons take away from them one of the rares good things about being an archer (other one being able to kit)...

[pabloking]

I wanted to provide everyone with a status update.

Our QA team is rigorously re-testing the 8x evasion right now, paying extra attention to the evasion rates of monsters in the Abyss and GHS. They are working with our developer partners to verify that the evasion changes players are reporting are present.

We'll let you know what we find.

It's not just the evasion, Saphar, but also defense. How is possible that I deal 160 damage with lv80 weapon+9 (cleric) when I dealt 250 damage or so in BR/Abyss? I agree they are high lv mobs and because of that they have to have high def but Im using a lv80 weapon+9, if it was a lv70 one, I would agree that I dealt a poor damage now but no. My damage was decreased. +9 weapon should give you a kind of advantage but now I think that +0 or +9 is almost the same, the bonus damage is minimum. Can you please check this too, Saphar? It's just disappointing :(

[SweaterMittens]

It's not just the evasion, Saphar, but also defense. How is possible that I deal 160 damage with lv80 weapon+9 (cleric) when I dealt 250 damage or so in BR/Abyss? I agree they are high lv mobs and because of that they have to have high def but Im using a lv80 weapon+9, if it was a lv70 one, I would agree that I dealt a poor damage now but no. My damage was decreased. +9 weapon should give you a kind of advantage but now I think that +0 or +9 is almost the same, the bonus damage is minimum. Can you please check this too, Saphar? It's just disappointing :(

are you a end or str cleric?

[pabloking]

are you a end or str cleric?

str/end cleric and I dealt a 'decent' damage, sugi, I used to do it at least but after the patch... >.>

[dark94]

It's not just the evasion, Saphar, but also defense. How is possible that I deal 160 damage with lv80 weapon+9 (cleric) when I dealt 250 damage or so in BR/Abyss? I agree they are high lv mobs and because of that they have to have high def but Im using a lv80 weapon+9, if it was a lv70 one, I would agree that I dealt a poor damage now but no. My damage was decreased. +9 weapon should give you a kind of advantage but now I think that +0 or +9 is almost the same, the bonus damage is minimum. Can you please check this too, Saphar? It's just disappointing :(

Yep, i checked that: My Dmg is the same with my lv70+9 blue wand and with my BK staff+0 although my M.Dmg is about -500 with the BK staff ...

So, basically, I could say that my M.Dmg is not taken into account in the Dmg is make on a mob ... I haven't check in PvP but it seems to be taken into account lmfao

Have i miss something or +9 is only for the design of the weapon in PvE and usefull only in PVP ?

[CM_Saphar]

Good news, everyone! We have a final response to this issue, and can consider it fully resolved.

The reason we could find no evasion changes to 8x monsters in the Abyss and GHS is simple - their evasion rates weren't changed. They weren't accidentally changed recently, but they also weren't changed several weeks ago when we changed evasion rates across the board.

This has now been corrected, and you should see an improvement in these areas now.

Be sure to let us know if you continue to experience any issues.

[Fre_ak]

Good news, everyone! We have a final response to this issue, and can consider it fully resolved.

The reason we could find no evasion changes to 8x monsters in the Abyss and GHS is simple - their evasion rates weren't changed. They weren't accidentally changed recently, but they also weren't changed several weeks ago when we changed evasion rates across the board.

This has now been corrected, and you should see an improvement in these areas now.

Be sure to let us know if you continue to experience any issues.
yay?

hmm wat exactly that mean? the evasion of the mobs are lower then before now?
but ty :)

[Kyo_Sama]

Good news, everyone! We have a final response to this issue, and can consider it fully resolved.

The reason we could find no evasion changes to 8x monsters in the Abyss and GHS is simple - their evasion rates weren't changed. They weren't accidentally changed recently, but they also weren't changed several weeks ago when we changed evasion rates across the board.

This has now been corrected, and you should see an improvement in these areas now.

Be sure to let us know if you continue to experience any issues.

will do, since it wouldnt be fair for the devs to work hard to please the players and not hear if they got it right or need to work overtime :cool:

there is a drastic improvement, using T4 aim before this was resolved i missed 9:10 times
now with T4 aim i miss 1:10

this is using an 80 axe so.. idk about others but its fine to me

[artboi]

800+ aim should be enough for this abyss now

[zerozone01]

Wow After us Explain the situation and sending ticket after ticket... Outspark Finnaly listens to us....

MY hit rate is now 100% (i got over 1700aim T4ed)

[Chaola]

Ah, finally a good news today...

Will try this tonight...

[raistlinmajeree]

yay outspark isnt another money grab company SEE!!!!

[Canboy]

I just dont like the BK weapons...sure they have great aim but that benifits all the other classes besides archers. What used to be our greatest strenght and wht we are known for is now obsolete and thats another strike in our ability to PvP well.

Why not take out the BK weapons and just keep things going the way they were? Monsters get more eva eatch level and the players get more aim with eatch level. Archers shouldnt lose their eva from these BK weapons >.>

Hehe also nullifys Fighters greatest weakness, their aim.