Improvement to Helga raid plan

[DragonRelic]

1st let me make it very clear, i am not posting this to flame but just to feedback on the Helga raid yesterday. I will summarise the strategy of the nice pics posted on Walt's threads:

1) Draw Helga to the corrider away from his spawns
2) Kill him using 5 main tanker parties

The above plan may work on the assumption that the spawns will not get to aid Helga. In my work, a plan has to have contingency plan in place. In real life, plan should not be left to luck and assume that things will turn up the way we want. Risk has to be minimised.


The following has room for improvement:

1) Main tanker parties:

The 5 tanker parties should not just focus on killing Helga but also to organise the rest of the players. This is call leadership and organisation.

Solution: some tanker parties tank Helga and the others organise the rest to keep the wolves at bay. Remember this, killing helga is a team work, not just the glorify achievement of a few. Unclear directions (leadership) and assumptions will not work.

2) Wolves at bay:

This is mentioned but no clear strategy of how to keep the wolves at bay. This is a key risk point because the plan will not succeed at current cap level unless the spawns are kept at bay.

Flo gave a hint but most of us were busy flaming her without thinking. How to kill all the spawns?

We have say 60 players in the raid yesteday. 20 in main parties to attack Helga, 40 hanging around dont know doing what. When Helga aoe, all die. Remember the corrider is a death trap for Helga and also for us. We are lke armies cramped in a dead end valley.

Solution:

We must have Blocking parties in the main chamber to engage the spawns. No spawns must cross the corrider to Helga. Figthers as 1st line in the chamber, cleric in the 2nd line healing and mages as artillery.

If some idiot try and draw spawns to Helga, the hunting parties are there to stop this or at least minimise the spawns that can get through.

We can create a killing field (aoe) strategy at the main chamber entry point to prevent spawns from getting to the trapped Helga. IMagine, Figthers piking the spawns, mages aoe or CC fear on spawns and clerics healing or clanking. This keeps the corridor clear and draw the fire away from the main tanker parties killing Helga.

THe teams can test this Killing field strategy at the entry point. Once the players are certain of what they are doing, the main tanker parties can organise and move forth to draw helga. The key timing: How to get the Blocking parties in place after Helga is trapped? Most probably the Main and Block parties have to time their entry into the tomb.

3) Flaming:

I was there all the time at the raid and i think the flaming is really childish. I think Flo was flamed for not keeping the wolves at bay. I thought we are supposed to kill Helga by ourselves? Do we want to succeed like "Yeah Apoline killed Helga.....but GM kept the wolves at bay".

There will be imbecile loser trying to spolit the game. Yesterday we saw 2. However, there are 60 of us?

Players will also make mistake, so do not flame them for it. It is a turn off and letdown if we do it.

Last thing, I find the preaching and praising of individuals before the plan succeeds rather irritating. After you succeed, you can brag all you want.

Organisation is never easy, you can be a sceptic and doubt how players can be organised. Scepticism and doubts are inevitable. However, if you want to be the lion leading the flock, you have to know how to organise.

"A leader takes criticism and looks at his flaws to find improvement in order to succeed."

Ok as usual, please start flaming me.....:D

[Beckywolf2]

Er..yeah, good plan :D But what about the archers?

[blurie]

lmao.. relic.. your 1st posting on Helga.. Good stragey.. But we need the army to listen to the leader as well.

[DragonRelic]

OPPPPPS...my apologies to all esteemed great archers!!!

Of course, i was assuming you all will be killing Helga with your super bows and skills!

[Beckywolf2]

Lol, yesh yesh :P xD

[G1XXER]

Well the big problem yesterday was that someone kept pulling mobs on purpose. Just don't understand the fun in it. Other than that with the people we had I think its possible to kill Helga. It's not however with streams of mobs coming in from the main tomb constantly.

[zues8844]

Someone needs to tank Helga, because I'm not quite sure the archers can tank him half as well as a fighter >.>

[master_maxin]

New Strategy : Ban *****and you win =D. Whereas ***** = The dude who decided to train every mob and completely ruin the raid. Which, not only is intentional training supposed to be punishable, but it was training a huge about of people, which IMO should lead to insta-ban. And the fact said person has done countless swearfests which should result in punishment, and a GL was there to witness the whole thing. If no action is taken, I think outspark will have a great number of angry people on their hands.

[seirou]

New Strategy : Ban *****and you win =D. Whereas ***** = The dude who decided to train every mob and completely ruin the raid. Which, not only is intentional training supposed to be punishable, but it was training a huge about of people, which IMO should lead to insta-ban. And the fact said person has done countless swearfests which should result in punishment, and a GL was there to witness the whole thing. If no action is taken, I think outspark will have a great number of angry people on their hands.

Not getting why Outspark doesn't already have an angry mob at their door for all the ****ty things they've done in the past.

Hey Koma. ;D

[master_maxin]

I know, but said person spends thousands of dollars in sparkcash and thus is immune to any punishments D:

andohaithar.

[ForgottenMiss27]

yes, we planned and had contingency for contingency plans for everything. let me break it down for you:

Strengths:

-our main parties were 40 strong, with the planned tanks being waltimore, Kannon_Z, Nana, Alexnew, CNGforever, _cloudless_; and then we had walk-in tanks such as DarkRukia, CHGkillertime, Charlwyn2, fiighter21 and more.

-we had a well thought out plan, made known to all main parties.

-there were at least 4 main tanks committed to 5+ sc pots for helga.

- ALL of our tanks were able to have individual time with helga, and survive.

- apoline was united. (special thanks to _valkyrie_, and many rival guilds that united for one purpose)

- helga was EASILY pulled, and pulled to the back, according to plan. kallops and hell guardians that came with helga were swiftly taken care of.

Weaknesses:

- we had 2 changes of plans at the very last minute that couldve been dealt with weeks earlier:
a. the meeting spot @ 5pm PST changed from FOS to DP1 at the last minute.
b. we realized that asgard was vulnerable to guild wars at any time during the raid. we did our best to solve this problem, first by contacting GM snakeeyes to change asgard to a non-warring guild. GM snakeeyes sadly cold not solve our problem in such short notice. our 2nd plan ws then put into effect by putting ENTIRE main tank parties into asgard, however we could not recieve ANY outside heals. this did happen, we got warred by a newly created guild, which we suspect immy was the creator.

- we had many counter-helga groups. people who joined the raid "just to watch us fail". some took it even further by trying to falsely guide the masses via shout. walti had a couple words to say before the raid, however SOMEONE shouted, "we dont wanna hear it! CHARRGE!" or something like that. thus began the raid, with no instruction from the organizer of the raid other than the forum posts.

-we did not have contingency plans for the final stage(helga by himself, us actually killing it) thus why we failed when the immytrain came in.

suggestions for improvement:

- counter-terrorrist plans in EVERY step of the plan.

- clerics. much more of them.

- mages that can withstand a helga AOE. mages are useless due to their range of attacks being so close to the target.(1500+ mdef, 6k+ hp)

- making the leading guild a non- warring guild temporarily. do this in ADVANCE.

- do not ask for ANY help from GM's, CL's, etc. in terms of actually participating in the raid.

- people who are going to the raid with the purpose of NOT helping with the raid, or "just watching" should NOT be invited to future raids. the less lag, less anti-helga raid groups, the better.

thats MY in depth analysis of the raid ;D

also, the sparkcash buying power of 40 vs 1 will make outspark be more sympathetic to OUR cause.

[villaloboos]

yes, we planned and had contingency for contingency plans for everything. let me break it down for you:

Strengths:

-our main parties were 40 strong, with the planned tanks being waltimore, Kannon_Z, Nana, Alexnew, CNGforever, _cloudless_; and then we had walk-in tanks such as DarkRukia, CHGkillertime, Charlwyn2, fiighter21 and more.

-we had a well thought out plan, made known to all main parties.

-there were at least 4 main tanks committed to 5+ sc pots for helga.

- ALL of our tanks were able to have individual time with helga, and survive.

- apoline was united. (special thanks to _valkyrie_, and many rival guilds that united for one purpose)

- helga was EASILY pulled, and pulled to the back, according to plan. kallops and hell guardians that came with helga were swiftly taken care of.

Weaknesses:

- we had 2 changes of plans at the very last minute that couldve been dealt with weeks earlier:
a. the meeting spot @ 5pm PST changed from FOS to DP1 at the last minute.
b. we realized that asgard was vulnerable to guild wars at any time during the raid. we did our best to solve this problem, first by contacting GM snakeeyes to change asgard to a non-warring guild. GM snakeeyes sadly cold not solve our problem in such short notice. our 2nd plan ws then put into effect by putting ENTIRE main tank parties into asgard, however we could not recieve ANY outside heals. this did happen, we got warred by a newly created guild, which we suspect immy was the creator.

- we had many counter-helga groups. people who joined the raid "just to watch us fail". some took it even further by trying to falsely guide the masses via shout. walti had a couple words to say before the raid, however SOMEONE shouted, "we dont wanna hear it! CHARRGE!" or something like that. thus began the raid, with no instruction from the organizer of the raid other than the forum posts.

-we did not have contingency plans for the final stage(helga by himself, us actually killing it) thus why we failed when the immytrain came in.

suggestions for improvement:

- counter-terrorrist plans in EVERY step of the plan.

- clerics. much more of them.

- mages that can withstand a helga AOE. mages are useless due to their range of attacks being so close to the target.(1500+ mdef, 6k+ hp)

- making the leading guild a non- warring guild temporarily. do this in ADVANCE.

- do not ask for ANY help from GM's, CL's, etc. in terms of actually participating in the raid.

- people who are going to the raid with the purpose of NOT helping with the raid, or "just watching" should NOT be invited to future raids. the less lag, less anti-helga raid groups, the better.

thats MY in depth analysis of the raid ;D

also, the sparkcash buying power of 40 vs 1 will make outspark be more sympathetic to OUR cause.



True truee ^^ lol
The main reasons we were almost all dying was because immy was training,
Then it was the people who was just watching or are completely useless to the raid, which the only action they do is LAG the tomb more.
I kept dying due to the insane lag the useless people created by just watching, i wasnt able to click the cs pot in time or even stone -_-.

Helga is Not really that hard to tank as i tho. I Had only 2 clerics in my party, and most of the time i was alone because they were dead, helga deals around 3k dmg with normal attack and 6-7k with Aoe. 5-6 Parties tanking should be ok, and have a back up tank party or 2 in the back of they alley in case kallaps / guardians comes in to stop them and lure them away. Like he said, keep 2 tank pt's in the entrace of alley near the gate to stop the kallops.

Then we shall succeed.

Thankz to immy i wasted lot of cs pots/pink/scrolls -_-.

[blurie]

Helga Tomb should have set a limit to lvl 70 and above to enter. To reduce the number of low levels from entering the tomb and less lag..

And if the few main parties are able to take helga, we may try to organise another helga raid among ourselves.

[DragonRelic]

Hihi, thanks. I just post my comments because you have put much though in it. Please do not take it negative:

"our main parties were 40 strong, with the planned tanks being..."

- There should be at least 1 or 2 main tanker party in the chamber engaging the spawns. This is very important. Who is organising the crowd? Maybe next time this should be written clearly like "Other players can help by engaging the spawns guided by main tanker party A and B.

"we had a well thought out plan, made known to all main parties"

- Hmmm, 20 people out of 60 people knows......maybe can do a bit of explanation of the plan at the gathering area?

"there were at least 4 main tanks committed to 5+ sc pots for helga."

- No qualms on this but the focus is on using the other 40 players. No point having them stand around and get killed. Chairman Mao "Organise the Mob and you can take a country" ^^

"ALL of our tanks were able to have individual time with helga, and survive."

- Individual time with Helga is not the key success factor. Killing it away from the spawns are.

"apoline was united. (special thanks to _valkyrie_, and many rival guilds that united for one purpose)"

- The Flaming was unhealthy...honestly....

"helga was EASILY pulled, and pulled to the back, according to plan. kallops and hell guardians that came with helga were swiftly taken care of."

- The key lies in preventing the spawns from coming to Helga when he is trapped. This includes the possibility of idiot pulling spawns to him. The Map did not show the corridor clearly. If you buy what i say, this means having a plan to engage spawns in the chamber at the entry point, preventing any subsequent spawns from reaching him. This means time for the main tanker party to take down helga.

Hmmm, looking at this, can we just organise the helga raid with established guilds? This makes the command and control easier.

How many main tanker parties do you think will need to bring down Helga and how long?

The other parties (say organise by guild) can hold the chamber with sole purpose of spawn killing.

You can actually test out the above strategy. You can even hold the main attack on helga until players are familar with their roles.

The other point: All players, especially hi-levels ones" want to attack helga. The answer is who is willing to assume the "lessor role" of engaging the spawns?

It is no point saying we almost kill helga to 40% hp. In life and in work, it is always the last 10%-20% that is most difficult.

[t3nchi]

Relic i think thats an awesome plan to kill the spawns as they try to come help helga. and it will also take away the threat of anyone trying to pull them towards us again. walti's plan was good but it didnt account for the spawns coming to help helga, even worse someone purposly pulling x.x, i think the gate corridor would be the best place to kill the spawns as so many ppl were in that little area that they couldnt get through in the begining, if we go into helgas chamber they kilk us easier because we're more spread out. And while yes we want to do it on our own, i really think the flaming of Flo went a lil too far, she tanked it for the most part and kept it there when we died and had to run back to the tomb. As for organization,..u need to say those who arent willing to listen to leave! doesnt matter how powerful we are indiviually none of us can solo helga, so we need organization to overcome this and alot of ppl werent listening. with more organization and ppl listen to whoever is " leading " the raid, and a certain amount of pts dedicated to kill spawns I think it would be done so easily, i mean we got helga's health WAAAY down, even AFTER he regen! yea the last bit is the hardest but this proves that it can be done, dont u think. And as for the spawn killings, if your organizing it and ppl wanna be apart of it then assign it to them based on their stats and if/or not they can buy SC pots and such,. i have no problem killing spawns...without killing them its obvious its gonna fail, so i really dont look at it as the " lesser " role, it might actually be just as big as killing helga, obviously we're gonna need more ppl killing spawns than those on helga .. not to mention after AOEing and maybe killing the " helga " parties, helga IS gonna turn on the "spawn" parties! we just need to know the tanking parties and the few ppl ( mostly clerics) who will be helping them...everyone else concentrate on spawns.
http://theawakenguild.webs.com/helga.JPG
LETS KILL THIS ***@#!$%^#$%^#@%$@%@ ALREADY!!! APOLINE FTW!!!

[RikoRain]

yes, we planned and had contingency for contingency plans for everything. let me break it down for you:

Strengths:

-our main parties were 40 strong, with the planned tanks being waltimore, Kannon_Z, Nana, Alexnew, CNGforever, _cloudless_; and then we had walk-in tanks such as DarkRukia, CHGkillertime, Charlwyn2, fiighter21 and more.

-we had a well thought out plan, made known to all main parties.

-there were at least 4 main tanks committed to 5+ sc pots for helga.

- ALL of our tanks were able to have individual time with helga, and survive.

- apoline was united. (special thanks to _valkyrie_, and many rival guilds that united for one purpose)

- helga was EASILY pulled, and pulled to the back, according to plan. kallops and hell guardians that came with helga were swiftly taken care of.

Weaknesses:

- we had 2 changes of plans at the very last minute that couldve been dealt with weeks earlier:
a. the meeting spot @ 5pm PST changed from FOS to DP1 at the last minute.
b. we realized that asgard was vulnerable to guild wars at any time during the raid. we did our best to solve this problem, first by contacting GM snakeeyes to change asgard to a non-warring guild. GM snakeeyes sadly cold not solve our problem in such short notice. our 2nd plan ws then put into effect by putting ENTIRE main tank parties into asgard, however we could not recieve ANY outside heals. this did happen, we got warred by a newly created guild, which we suspect immy was the creator.

- we had many counter-helga groups. people who joined the raid "just to watch us fail". some took it even further by trying to falsely guide the masses via shout. walti had a couple words to say before the raid, however SOMEONE shouted, "we dont wanna hear it! CHARRGE!" or something like that. thus began the raid, with no instruction from the organizer of the raid other than the forum posts.

-we did not have contingency plans for the final stage(helga by himself, us actually killing it) thus why we failed when the immytrain came in.

suggestions for improvement:

- counter-terrorrist plans in EVERY step of the plan.

- clerics. much more of them.

- mages that can withstand a helga AOE. mages are useless due to their range of attacks being so close to the target.(1500+ mdef, 6k+ hp)

- making the leading guild a non- warring guild temporarily. do this in ADVANCE.

- do not ask for ANY help from GM's, CL's, etc. in terms of actually participating in the raid.

- people who are going to the raid with the purpose of NOT helping with the raid, or "just watching" should NOT be invited to future raids. the less lag, less anti-helga raid groups, the better.

thats MY in depth analysis of the raid ;D

also, the sparkcash buying power of 40 vs 1 will make outspark be more sympathetic to OUR cause.

Well honestly, the pt I was in had no idea what to do. I ended up coming to the raid late because I had forgot about it and didnt see that classic Walti running around advertising for it. So I had no idea what to do besides go in there, try to revive people, and stand around awaiting instruction.

When I got there and actually asked what was goin on, no reply D:

Plus I saw some lv 10-40 people, what the heck are they gonna do?! I understand everyone should have the chance to watch us take down Helga, but it really made me lag on a computer I almost NEVER lag on. I couldnt even heal myself to stay alive from the kallops.

And actually, with the nonwarring guilds idea, you can organize it quite well.
Say.. put the main tanker party in one guild. Put the support kallop-killers in another guild. Put all the Misc clerics and DDs in another guild. Mabe that would work, because each "group" could then have a certain place (guild chat) to talk to eachother (for example: if half the kallop kill pt dies they can let eachother know in guild chat, instead of the random insanity that is public chat in there).

Flo.. Im not gonna comment on Flo, other than I think people get mood swings around her O.o They love her one day, hate her the next, then love her again. So Id rather just forget that experience.

But I DO think we need at least 1 gm there. Preferably 2. If not 2, then a GM and a GL, or several GLs.

All the players at the Raid, other than warring eachother and pvp, are at the same lvl of authority. We will vye with eachother, yes, but the GL and GM are above us. They can actually back up their 'threats'. We NEED authority there, and control.

Thats all I got. I came late, and left early. D: It was fail by the tiem I got there

[rath38]

sweet and simple

helga raid = EPIC FAIL

helga r@pes us all no matter what

now if u had like 200 ppls actually online lvl 65+ at the least in there trying to r@pe him instead u might actually kill him

but hes what a lvl 120 boss

and our cap is at 89......<_<;

big diff in lvl there >_>;

[t3nchi]

yea but we have him out #'ed rath ..and by alot! we couldve actuall did it yesterday if it wasnt for immy's 1st pull...that 1st pull ended it all!

[fishin4bass4life]

best way to solve all of these problems, make the raid unknown to everyone not involved. Tell everyone what happened AFTER the fact. That will cut down on noob players. A second helga raid is in the planning, and you can sign up on the thread.

[dark94]

umm i have a question about mages ... how many mages with 1500+ M.Def and 6k+ HP are in Apoline ??

The AOE effect is all around Helga or only front of him?

[t3nchi]

all around for the most part cuz i got hit and died when i was behind and couple feet from hit 0.o

[ForgottenMiss27]

in reply to dragonrelic's comments:

that definitly wasnt meant to be dissected. it was my take on what we did well, what we could improve on, and my personal suggestions on how to improve. if you wanna argue anything on that post, give feedback on the suggestions, not the compliments.

i suppose if we wait a month or 2 for the noobs to flood lvl 80+, we'll have enough to "keep the wolves at bay" the many tanks for helga was barely enough to keep him at the same spot and bring down his hp.

[ShonenHero]

sweet and simple

helga raid = EPIC FAIL

helga r@pes us all no matter what

Not at all, they were pretty close and had not been for the actions of third parties, Helga would be a pile of steaming dirt by now


best way to solve all of these problems, make the raid unknown to everyone not involved. Tell everyone what happened AFTER the fact. That will cut down on noob players. A second helga raid is in the planning, and you can sign up on the thread.

I`m not one of the "Raiders of The Lost Helga", right? But I think that there should be another way of avoiding these problems, I think that making the raid a secret, exclusive event would beat the purpose of uniting the server (That WAS united at the time of the raid, except for a couple of people) and that instead of keeping it on the down low, other precautions should be taken. It`d be really sad if the only way our server has to kill Helga is by making it a secret. I liked how the previous plan was a "Come on guys, let`s do our best!"

[RikoRain]

I`m not one of the "Raiders of The Lost Helga", right? But I think that there should be another way of avoiding these problems, I think that making the raid a secret, exclusive event would beat the purpose of uniting the server (That WAS united at the time of the raid, except for a couple of people) and that instead of keeping it on the down low, other precautions should be taken. It`d be really sad if the only way our server has to kill Helga is by making it a secret. I liked how the previous plan was a "Come on guys, let`s do our best!"

Thats why really we need to contact some Gms, and ask them to moderate it. I mean were making it into an event, the GMs should be there to moderate, even if it is to simply port troublesome players out of the area. You know its true, when a GM shows up, everyone acts better. Why? Fear. They are afraid to get in "trouble" so they naturally act better. Plus, a GM is someone with authority. People respond to authority in stressful situations, such as a nervously planned Helga Raid.

[fishin4bass4life]

if we do the whole, come on lets do our best, you will always get one idiot who will go on a purposely screw everything up. It is in human nature. When all want to succeed, you get one who tries to make them fail. If we only allow people who WANT to try and do this, it will also cut down on the lag. It is also simpler to keep the "wolves at bay". The easier wat to do that, is pull helga all the way to the gate and wall him. That will bring helga's aoe to a smaller range since the range of attack starts from a point in front of him. Defeating helga must be played like the MD or phino kq.

[RikoRain]

umm i have a question about mages ... how many mages with 1500+ M.Def and 6k+ HP are in Apoline ??

The AOE effect is all around Helga or only front of him?

I know double posting but i just saw this.

I believe its like MD. Strongest in front, weaker around the backsides. I assume this cus i only died when he was facing me =.= otherwise I think scrolled i survived the aoe. Hard to tell tho, cus a kallop zoomed to me in liek .00000001 seconds from across the room at that same time.

[fishin4bass4life]

pull helga to the gate, and that eliminates the threat from kallaps...

[RikoRain]

pull helga to the gate, and that eliminates the threat from kallaps...

Unless the Kallops are set to automatically come racing to where Helga is.

I knwo one time I went to HT when no one was there, went back in the path where it starts forming an alley, shroomed there.
5 minutes later, a kallop killed me outta nowhere. I hadn tmoved, wasnt even close to out there.

[fishin4bass4life]

helga is a boss.. when you bring the boss outta the range of its minoins... the minoins do not follow. EX: bringing GH to center of map.

[dark94]

To prevent spawn, some Mages and tanks could stay by the gate after Helga is pulled by the main tanks xD.

Tanks block Kallaps and Hell guardians and army of squishy mages spawn nova and inferno to kill them as fast as possible.

Btw, if Helga turn to the gate during this time, the army of squishy mages will be one shot killed ^^.

I'm also wonder if the clerics in the main parties shoudn't be able to survive Helga's AOE ? If i remembered well, a lot are sleeping with me xD

Note: scrolled with T4, i don't survive against anything in this Tomb :D *<-- need godly gears*

[Tru_lee_per_fect]

lol...umm me? o.O well...kinda depends if i get my char back...it seems maitnence deleted my char D:





Apocalytpo
lvl 89 Enchanter
4th capped Mage
~~~~~~

[Ange3l]

i'll support you guys from the barracks <3
haven't been able to play, otherwise i'd be higher lvl and would've participated in previous helga raids =\

post pics after the raid, no? whether its a fail or not, we'll get king helga sooner or later ;D

[dark94]

lol...umm me? o.O well...kinda depends if i get my char back...it seems maitnence deleted my char D:





Apocalytpo
lvl 89 Enchanter
4th capped Mage
~~~~~~

O_o

your char is deleted ??

[RikoRain]

O.O

Oh yeah, I also think that when this plan is officially revamped, someone needs to make a NEW THREAD, so that we can all see it. No offense, but even 4 pages is alot to read through in the few minutes I get of spare time this week.

Btw Ichi, your mage in your siggy is so darn cute! I just now realized ._. OMGHESOCUTE