DD fighters Vs. Tank fighters

[zaraki0112]

Before i start i seriously can't beieve that there are people that are lvl 3x and above that go "huh?" when u tell them you are a DD fighter, but they all know what a tank is....

So on to the DD VS. TANK,
1. obviously the tanks last waaaaayyyy longer than the DD
2. the tank spends less money on hp crystals because they take less dmg
3. the tank pwns the DD more in pvp
BUT
1. (i am a lvl 5x DD fighter) the DD's perform better vs. other classes
2. soloing is easier because mobs die faster( if you fight them 1vs1)
3. that axe is just so shiney!

Opinions on which is better DD or Tank?
P.S. if you have any tips on how to make either one of these very strong please add your tips and comments!

[avion210]

I think this should be moved the the Class Section of the forums.

[whatever1234567]

DD + +9 gears = teh godly i was in honeying KQ the other day and there was me and a another lvl 50 tank he was a S/S guy and his shield was +9. The funny thing was i was main tank :P and he tried to outtank me but stood no chance i just did so much damage on dev all the mobs came chasing after me

[Miazma]

As a member of the *support* class in the game I can honestly say my preference is to party with a *Tank*. A full END fighter wearing gear and using a sword and shield that has max STR does deal decent damage. They arent squishy which gives the cleric time to heal other members in the party.

A common occurance in kkq:

DD fighter 1 *Who is going to tank *Slime*? I cant.
DD fighter 2 *Not me*
DD fighter 3 *Any END fighters here*?

Time to kill King Kong:

DD fighter 1 *Rez please*
DD fighter 2 *Dam you clerics, heal me*

Small mobs spawn and the DD fighter cant take the damage from KK and the mobs, so many kkq's fail these days. If you are lucky enough to get in a kkq with a Tank or a DD fighter who knows the value of adding loads of END to their gear and they are prepared to switch to a 1h/shield kkq will rarely fail.

Both the Tank and DD fighter have their place in the game and I dont consider one to be better than the other if they take advantage of additional stats on gear.

[Atmor]

Which is more favorable is really dependant on the situation. In KQ, yes I would agree pure end fighters are infinitly beeter than DDS. For example in Robo KQ. On Epith 9/10 failed robos failed because of a lack of tanks who could (or would) mock and live, of course the other 1/10 of failed robos was people trying to kill robo without the proper firepower or defense. In MD, a lvl 48 pure end fighter with a +9 shield, and maybe t3s can easily tank the entire KQ, whereas a lvl 55+ DD can finally tank MD with ease with t3s and cs. Spider KQ same as robo, KKP same as MD.

Now if you like to solo alot, then yeah I'll say the DD fighter is superior because you don't have to tank alot of mobs, or really big mobs all at once. Also when soloing the faster the enemy lays down and dies teh better.

Now the difference between DDs and pure tanks is their ability to hold mobs. In a party, yes tanks can take more damage and need less healing, the downside is alot of teh time it takes more for tanks to hold the mobs than DDs, purely because of damage output. Obviously good tanks can compensate, but of course across all servers there are very few good tanks in my experiance...

[KireiYosei]

Moved this to the fighter discussion section.

[zues8844]

http://tdistler.com/media/images/IPityDaFool_small.jpg

Mr. T also agrees that DD is Win :]

[zaraki0112]

hmmm ok so basically DD's should wander around and solo the sweet heel out of mobs but should stay far away from kq's( unless they are prepared), one thing i have to agree on is that tank are more useful in parties, but i think in duo's DD would be better, what would u guys say if i asked your opinion more to the PvP side?

[zues8844]

Tank has no place in PvP. DD > All.

[dogdogs]

Well a DD unless they don't have end gears they die pretty fast, Tanks have the highest defence and can still deal decent damage. As a cleric I would rather party with tanks, good defence so I can heal others in need and decent damage.

[Atmor]

PvP is pointless don't do it >.<

[darthnish]

other than pvp, tanks pretty much own , they hardly ever die and can party easily and solo effectively with a +9 2h or axe

[thechaz]

lol at that pic and my lil fighter tanked slime bing pure str at that level and with no scrolls so i cant see why they cant tank as a dd fighter if a mage can tank ^^ just scroll it. and pvp wise my dd archer usually owns dd fighters cause they cant hit me and im doing 4xx dmg non crit and when i do crit its over 1k so dd fighters arnt all that especially when u remove ther charms extenders crit suits ect ect.

[yaseeda]

Well, i am not dd but rather hybried, but i still agree that its ideal build for soloing. Put t3 shield on, max deva and whirlwind slash>u god, i never partied since lvl 70 on my own will (only few times i joined parties when friends asked me).
As fo kkp... cmon, ppl, at lvl 70 he indeed killed me few times with aoe, so what i did? Equipped rings with end, lol. I am lvl 73 now, he cant kill me with aoe (fall/jump, neither one), and i DONT use shield scrolls during kq. What if i use t3? I could tank him probly, because he hits me for 2500 (without scrolls) only while i have 3550. Rare cases when i died was when he did 2 "fall" aoes in row and my cleric couldnt heal me on time, at lvl 74 even this will not be problem.
Tankers? Well... only use i can see for them is that they can tank without scrolls>spend less money, so yeah, for kq or dungeon boss tank is more preferrable then dd/hybried. But imho, with end in our gears and t3 we could tank as well as they, so tanker not so important, i saw many times 2h or axe users tanked kkp without even switching to shields (they had nice end in gears).
Overall: if u DD or hybried - buy gear with good end and buy some t3 scrolls... and г will not need tankers EVER.

[Hemmes]

Since END does so little over 50 points i decided to hybrid END:50 SPR:25 STR:rest
I like to solo this way and im quite happy about it. ^_^

[Zh0ngGu0ZhiZa0]

lol, with 50 point in end, you gain a measly 25 def (blocks any dmg, but when mobs do 300 dmg to u, it really doest make much of a difference) and 250 hp, so i dont see why everyone says a full end fighter has WAY more def. what gives them the higher def is the fact that tanks usually use shields and 1h as main equips while dd fighters always hold a axe in most cases. give the dd fighter the same equips as full end fighter and the difference in def and hp really isnt too significant. in addition, many dd fighters carry a sword and 1h with them for tanking situations. the main advantage of full end builds comes from the increased block rate imo, and in abyss full end builds are very useful since mobs do so little dmg there. in roa at 7x with high end +9 equips, mobs did like 60 dmg to me when i held an axe, but i guess if i was full end, theyd be doin only 10-20 dmg

[Dthugtherealist]

DD's can become max tanks if they have end/spr gear 100+ end and spr gives 500 bonus hp and sp and 100 bonus def and magic def armor and pants should have dex for axes. The bonus of str in free stats is greater than in armor and the only bonuses you don't get from end/spr gear is the crit and block rate but the other bonuses really make you a better fighter. Being a DD is more of a patience thing in the pve realm but after u start gaining ground and getting more money you can become a lethal force especially after you get devastate you become the ultimate agro holder especially with a +9 axe. You can protect your party members without the constant use of mock and deal enough damage to drop the monsters down to about 60% health. DD's just take patience^^

[dogdogs]

lol at that pic and my lil fighter tanked slime bing pure str at that level and with no scrolls so i cant see why they cant tank as a dd fighter if a mage can tank ^^ just scroll it. and pvp wise my dd archer usually owns dd fighters cause they cant hit me and im doing 4xx dmg non crit and when i do crit its over 1k so dd fighters arnt all that especially when u remove ther charms extenders crit suits ect ect.

Well because it just works clerics harder, life is going down very fast. As a cleric I would just let the mage deal the damage as they were intended to.

[Dthugtherealist]

A fighter is design to protect the other classes with damage or with defense. A cleric that can't heal a class with the highest natural hp and defense in the game is a sad state.

[whatever1234567]

Well because it just works clerics harder, life is going down very fast. As a cleric I would just let the mage deal the damage as they were intended to.

Yes let the mages deal their damage but whats the harm if the tank does nearly as much damage as the mage okay after lvl 60 we still do alot less but mock+dev = super aggro. I think its really useful after you get to like 40-54 and 70-89 cause our mock's lvl cycle is so long so after a while its not nearly as effective as it once was till you get the upgrade. That way mock will attract them then dev will keep them

[Dthugtherealist]

Also I would like to add one more thing even if the fighter is a DD if the mage "tanks" by attacking more than the fighter than the mage will get the agro then it becomes way harder for the cleric to heal. "Tanking" is not only about using mock but drawing monsters to you with your damage while the other classes pick of the monsters one or more at a time. Whoever attacks first with the max damage will get the agro that he/she may not be designed to hold for a long time. So tell me who would you rather "Tank" the mage or a DD fighter or a archer?

[grannysboy]

a full end tank cant kill ANYONE of a comparable lv. I build 1 before i know. DD axe fighters DESTROY them.

[yaseeda]

Just one thing -)))) If u dd tanker, 2h is better choice since it has higher aim - u will never miss with t1 aim, axe user could miss with t1, so part of gathered mobs will not be affected by his deva.

[deathbringer54]

my fighter is 1:1 atm soon 2 b 1:1:1 str: end:spr but the str:end build i would say is really good cause u have a good def mine at lvl 48 was around 500 with 1h and shield and 400 with axe (but all my gear is end) and i can beat some lvl 50 fighters in pvp so str:end is a good build

[mavricgabriel]

Hmm... I havent tried my build to a tank before, but im sure i'll be able to handle them 1 on 1. Im a DD fighter axe wielder (25SPR/all STR) with high STR/DEX/END gears and accessories.

[dark94]

Hmm... I havent tried my build to a tank before, but im sure i'll be able to handle them 1 on 1. Im a DD fighter axe wielder (25SPR/all STR) with high STR/DEX/END gears and accessories.

Advice for Fighters: work on production skills to make money, you will need A LOT of money if you want godly gears :D

Fighters Gears are the most expensive in High Lv --> Go, Go, Go

If you don't care being the best, it's not mandatory.

All I can say: choose the build that fit the most the way you are playing. And please, if you love playing as a fighter, create a cleric only if you want to heal your partmates ... we have enough clanks T_T * yeah they could tank, yeah they could kill mob ... and what ? *

[mavricgabriel]

Advice for Fighters: work on production skills to make money, you will need A LOT of money if you want godly gears :D

Fighters Gears are the most expensive in High Lv --> Go, Go, Go

If you don't care being the best, it's not mandatory.

All I can say: choose the build that fit the most the way you are playing. And please, if you love playing as a fighter, create a cleric only if you want to heal your partmates ... we have enough clanks T_T * yeah they could tank, yeah they could kill mob ... and what ? *

maxed out decomposition
making T3 potions
maxed scroll production
nearly t4 stone production

anythig else i missed?:D

all my gears for the higher levels are at my storage ready for use. bought the enhanced ones from my archer's account. so my fighter is already paid for in advance:D all i have to do is enjoy and make it to the higher levels:D

[MMORPGNERD]

dd vs tank is a never ending fight... its like watching two clerics... useless and boring. 1h doesnt do enough damage to kill the dd, and with shield the dd cant kill the tank.

[elisagiven]

I don't have a clear cut answer for this and I don't want to take sides...I have both a Pure END tank (5x) and had at one time a DD my 8x is now a Tank (I guess) more like 60/30/10 end/str/spr. I know that I could hold my own from day1 in KKP without a Cleric in party and without charms using t3 scrolls (lvl 70 mind you) I dont care for pvp but stood up to a Strength fighter 2 lvls above me at 80 and held my own (it was a draw)
What I do know is this...I have yet to play MD since the glich was removed but I hear its tough for DD's to survive ...really tough. And the Parties depend on Tankers to hold MD while they kill him. I remember before the glich was discovered how hard he was and the hit and run manuvre was used alot on my hybrid. Only a Tank has a ghost of a chance at surviving his jumps and fire. Or a DD with tons of SC on charms +++ out the wazzoo.
In a party all classes are needed however, and BOTH have a place: five spots five classes Tank, DD, Cleric, Mage, Archer...Ideal
Want to see the future?? Check out this thread Really cool :cool:
http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126627

[xavier_swift]

You guys are fools to think a DD is useless as KQ Tank. I tanked every boss from Mara to Robo, all with an axe, and I had no problems surviving. Or course, in Robo, I had to deal with the frigging noobs bringing the mobs towards Robo, even though I SPECIFICALLY SAID NOT TOO!!! >_<


.....

Sorry....vent over.

[XBlackRose]

So on to the DD VS. TANK,
1. obviously the tanks last waaaaayyyy longer than the DD
2. the tank spends less money on hp crystals because they take less dmg
3. the tank pwns the DD more in pvp
BUT
1. (i am a lvl 5x DD fighter) the DD's perform better vs. other classes
2. soloing is easier because mobs die faster( if you fight them 1vs1)
3. that axe is just so shiney!

Opinions on which is better DD or Tank?
P.S. if you have any tips on how to make either one of these very strong please add your tips and comments!

1. Not exactly true. It all depends on your gears and if you use CS items or not. This might be true in the beginning levels, but soon enough, the HP acquired from the allocated points in END is not THAT much anymore. You can always scroll up to cover for the HP if you are a DD and use an extender.
2. Once again, in the beginning, yes. However, the defense you acquire from full END is, in the end, not that much as you can always use a defense scroll to cover that. Also, in the later levels, gears affect your defense so a DD with better END gears can easily outmatch the END fighter in defense. If you party a lot, it doesn't matter as you'll be consuming SP stones more than HP stones (assuming you have a cleric). On the other hand, if you solo, you'll realize that the tank (END fighter) spends much more time killing a monster than the DD fighter. As a result, the END fighter spends more HP stones. This applies mostly in the later levels.
3. This is debatable as it ultimately depends on your gears. The DD fighter might have an advantage because of his/her STR. This is up for discussion.

1. Debatable. You cannot assume this.
2. This is true as your allocated stats in STR allows a higher damage. However, a tank could use a +9 high STR axe and charm of might to try to match up. Gears matter too.
3.I guess?

Just my opinions. I would say that being full END at 60+ is not as useful as it was in the 20s or 30s. I'm still full END though just because I want to. Also, some END fighters switch to a STR build later on.

[elisagiven]

Some financial advatage to being an end tanker at high lvl is Str Dex and Spr gear is much cheaper then end gear to buy and Sp stones cost much less then HP stones Vitality vs Power scrolls is a toss up.
Physically My chances vs a mage my lvl is much better in PvP I found that out in a war. More Hp= better chance at survival more time to hit re dev him and stone etc. And my dev is maxed on all 15 pts so cool down is fast I can spam dev and keep hitting (long as he's not running lol)

[dogdogs]

Also I would like to add one more thing even if the fighter is a DD if the mage "tanks" by attacking more than the fighter than the mage will get the agro then it becomes way harder for the cleric to heal. "Tanking" is not only about using mock but drawing monsters to you with your damage while the other classes pick of the monsters one or more at a time. Whoever attacks first with the max damage will get the agro that he/she may not be designed to hold for a long time. So tell me who would you rather "Tank" the mage or a DD fighter or a archer?

A tank still...mock is desighned to bring in aggro, and nova and inferno is saposed to work on 5 monsters a time...instead almost all monsters. And it works for mock to. I don't trust DD's yet still capable of holding aggro with mock, even one shot without a skill from a fighter will not take aggro, as many say it would.

[yego49]

im lvl62 all +9 fighter i see no point in using shield and sword +9 if u already have full armour +9 go get an axe and do some damage u already have enouph def..........and there is no point in 2h swords a .2s difference from axe and alot more damage.....i say use shield and sword +9 if u dont have +9 armour.......

freaker15 lvl62 fighter:bijue
healzy lvl31 cleric:bijue
santa_clause lvl10 mage:bijue

[kryptic-]

A few aspects that people tend to look over in these discussions are that

1. A tank uses more hp stones? No, if the damage dealer is hitting them extremely hard the monster will die much faster. While at the same time a tank kills almost as slowly as a cleric and has to heal much more simply because that monster has so many more chances to hit him. So I would say they are about equal in this aspect.

I've always felt the same way about this discussion: Offense is the best Defense

[Horinia]

Man...


Just.......

Man..........


How is it on 4 pages of this, not a single one of you actually seem to understand how End builds work.....

[Hemmes]

Then enlighten us Horinia ^_^

[Horinia]

I have, search is your friend. Its also at the end of Seras fighter guide. All this information is already out there. This is also only for PvE as I have not bothered to care about PvP parses.

http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66900

I am working on a new version, including some changes to how Aim and Eva are effected. Turns out +Aim% gears like earrings, and +eva% gears like earrings, only add 'x'% of the total amount on your gears, not your base stats. But that will all be sometime soonish.

[slinkys]

LAALALALAlALALAlAlALALALALALALA mageftw all i got to say throw some end gear on and bam everyones dead....

[thedark17]

Well Me being a lvl 60 fighter, stood toe 2 toe with a lvl 63 DD fighter *he had +9 axe* i had just a +9 1h sword *no + on the shield* it lasted pretty long, untill my opponent *the dd* critted me like 3 times in a row, his hp was at like 200~250 and i was so clooose to winning, but i think it depends on the player, not the build

~Brute

[Dthugtherealist]

Dogs I never said one shot would take agro you still need to use skills but when you do then its one shot and agro is gained I only use mock to protect my pt mates when in serious danger. I use Devastate to gain agro and 100% of the time it works especially since 99.9% of the time I crit when I devastate the monsters stayed glued to me allowing me to do my Job as a fighter. DD's just do thing differently and Mock is not spammable!!! it has a 20 second cool down unless you empower the CD which to me is a waiste as a DD Devastate sometimes whirwind and rarely mocking works better then having to try and kick mock devastate and your still having trouble.

[threewishes112]

A tank still...mock is desighned to bring in aggro, and nova and inferno is saposed to work on 5 monsters a time...instead almost all monsters. And it works for mock to. I don't trust DD's yet still capable of holding aggro with mock, even one shot without a skill from a fighter will not take aggro, as many say it would.

It is possible for a DD to hold aggro with mock. If you don't trust DDs, you should give it a shot yourself rather than underestimating the class. We make one of the best tanks around. :)

-threewishes112

[dogdogs]

Tankers do have a place in the abyss though. Anyway the only thing pvp gives is just kill points and nothing else so I say the pvp benefit for DD is pretty useless. Tankers partying with clerics(as I prefer)just boost their limitations and abilitys by 100%.

[dogdogs]

Threewishes, I have partied with DDs before usualy because most of them are DDs and is rare for me to ever come across a tanker, but that doesn't mean a DD can't mock though it would have to depend on the player.

[threewishes112]

Tankers do have a place in the abyss though. Anyway the only thing pvp gives is just kill points and nothing else so I say the pvp benefit for DD is pretty useless. Tankers partying with clerics(as I prefer)just boost their limitations and abilitys by 100%.

And...DDs don't have a place in abyss? Explain. Also, I would like to point out that: different characters value different things, just because there's nothing in it for you, you can't completely say it is "useless" to other characters (that is what I understand by: "I say the pvp benefit for DD is pretty useless.") Or as the saying goes: "One man's trash is another man's treasure".


Threewishes, I have partied with DDs before usualy because most of them are DDs and is rare for me to ever come across a tanker, but that doesn't mean a DD can't mock though it would have to depend on the player.

No, that's not what I recalled. You said: "I don't trust DD's yet still capable of holding aggro with mock, even one shot without a skill from a fighter will not take aggro, as many say it would." In your response, you didn't explain how DD's can't hold aggro, or so "you don't trust them to?" What does that mean? Elaborate "It would depend on the player"?


-threewishes112

[dogdogs]

And...DDs don't have a place in abyss? Explain. Also, I would like to point out that: different characters value different things, just because there's nothing in it for you, you can't completely say it is "useless" to other characters (that is what I understand by: "I say the pvp benefit for DD is pretty useless.") Or as the saying goes: "One man's trash is another man's treasure".



No, that's not what I recalled. You said: "I don't trust DD's yet still capable of holding aggro with mock, even one shot without a skill from a fighter will not take aggro, as many say it would." In your response, you didn't explain how DD's can't hold aggro, or so "you don't trust them to?" What does that mean? Elaborate "It would depend on the player"?


-threewishes112

First of all I never said DD's had no place in the abyss.

I'm one of those people who hold onto memories of bad experiences. Now even if I don't fully completely trust a DD I doubt he would completely trust me to keep him alive. You can never completely trust somebody in terms of in a game like this I mean. Like I said I hold onto bad experiences and memorys, it doesn't mean I think they can't hold aggro it's that I believe that when you become a DD you usualy focus and base upon strength so you don't think about holding aggro a lot, when you become a tanker you more so focus on the well being on party mates and holding aggro more so thats why I put most trust onto a tanker but it still does not mean I won't give trust to a DD even of what I said in the past.

[Dthugtherealist]

Allright Dogs DD's=Damage Dealer when they attack they attract agro so If its and Archer or pure int mage or a pure str Axe user their gonna use their aoe's and grab agro regardless. When I use to be in lower lvl Kq's I.E. Robo Honeying I would slam a mob with my devastate after they awoke from the stun I was dead if cleric didn't heal. Then again everybody can only take so much even pure end tankers yes I said it!!!!! People don't understand that DD's are better in Honeying they want Tankers yes one Tank is good but that won't bring winning when their like 8 tanks 5 clerics and two DD's you gotta understand that everyone has their faults. That whole Kq is won by killing and getting to the Top I have Tanked that kq several times. A clerics job is to look at the teams faults and see whats the best strategy to make them better!!! You don't go in any Kq and expect oh yes I want the pure Tank party no you get what you get and you work with it. DD fighters can tank if their properly supported by a good cleric even Mages can Tank!!! if their properly supported. Archers well they kite so run with them and heal. One day your gonna get a team who is all DD's and you can't be like oh I can't take this I want a new team you gotta compensate maybe that team with your help can get the boss kill you need!!! Well I just wanted to say that Clerics make every class better!!! If your not doing that you need to play something different!!!

[dogdogs]

Its my opinions, my opinions are no where below your opinions neither are mines higher they are at the same level of what everybodys opinions. Dthutherealist you need to calm down, I usualy duo with archer and mage pals anyway, with the good exp in return with good heals. And some of your stuff in your post I already agree with, ive seen a mage tank awsome and I'm not picky about my partys I take what I need not what I want. In kq I really don't care about who they are as long as they pull their weight.

[Dthugtherealist]

LOl man not just talking about fighters I'm talking about the squishy peoples too the archers and mages you gotta compensate thats what being a cleric is about when you pt. Fighters same thing they gotta compensate you can't go to a kq as a fighter no matter what build you are and not expect to "Tank" and protect your pt mates thats just how it is.

[Dthugtherealist]

Also yes thats good that you can work with anyone thats what I wanted to hear not oh they lose hp fast or oh they don't have enough defense to tank.

[themichael]

To be honest, as an archer, I much rather be mixed with a DD Fighter with a sword and sheild rather than a 1h tanks with a sheild Because in Parties I am CONSTANTLY grabbing aggro, sometimes even 5secs after a fighter mocks But anyways; When Im paired/partied with a DD fighter the aggro I get seems to decrease,I suppose its because of their higher damage output than that of a DD has that holds their aggro longer.
And Yes I've experimented with it and Ive come to that conclusion.

Sure It may be harder on my cleric to put up with a DD fighter but its much easier on me. :D

[BLUESTAR☼INC.]

[threewishes112]

First of all I never said DD's had no place in the abyss.

I'm one of those people who hold onto memories of bad experiences. Now even if I don't fully completely trust a DD I doubt he would completely trust me to keep him alive. You can never completely trust somebody in terms of in a game like this I mean. Like I said I hold onto bad experiences and memorys, it doesn't mean I think they can't hold aggro it's that I believe that when you become a DD you usualy focus and base upon strength so you don't think about holding aggro a lot, when you become a tanker you more so focus on the well being on party mates and holding aggro more so thats why I put most trust onto a tanker but it still does not mean I won't give trust to a DD even of what I said in the past.

Bottom line though: You're not a fighter and you speak with the knowledge that you are. Yet, there are so much things you can't be certain for sure yourself such as the intentions of different fighters (how the hell did you know that DD's don't really focus on holding aggro? Right, maybe because the majority do) or the aggro ability of a DD(how do you know that DD's can't hold enough aggro, but can still hold aggro? Easy, maybe they can do it better than tanks sometimes).

You base your own knowledge on the people you've partied and your previous experience as a cleric not to mention. And unsurprisingly enough, clerics seem to also have a grudge against fighters at the moment. You're a cleric so it's natural that you prefer to party with tanks because they'll benefit you anyway, but what's the bloody difference between a tank holding aggro and a DD holding aggro apart from the methods used? The last time I checked, my mage can steal aggro off the tank.

Any fighter's first priority is to protect their party members, what's there to trust and not trust about that? Do you honestly believe it's relevent to consider that big gap of damage between a DD and a tanker with regards to how serious they focus on holding aggro or are you just too insane to admit it? :rolleyes:

-threewishes112

[Dthugtherealist]

Thanx 3 wishes and michael this is what I've been trying to say to this man the whole time DD's if smart can be better Tankers than the S/S full end Tankers. They hold agro through their attacks and can chop anything down.
Rather than mocking kicking and devstating and using whirlwind to hold agro they can hold agro through attacks raw damage no disrespect to full end S/S users there are some that can do a very good job but if a axe wielder comes in better mock after stun wears of cuz agro will be glued to that person.

[spart5]

Bottom line though: You're not a fighter and you speak with the knowledge that you are. Yet, there are so much things you can't be certain for sure yourself such as the intentions of different fighters (how the hell did you know that DD's don't really focus on holding aggro? Right, maybe because the majority do) or the aggro ability of a DD(how do you know that DD's can't hold enough aggro, but can still hold aggro? Easy, maybe they can do it better than tanks sometimes).

You base your own knowledge on the people you've partied and your previous experience as a cleric not to mention. And unsurprisingly enough, clerics seem to also have a grudge against fighters at the moment. You're a cleric so it's natural that you prefer to party with tanks because they'll benefit you anyway, but what's the bloody difference between a tank holding aggro and a DD holding aggro apart from the methods used? The last time I checked, my mage can steal aggro off the tank.

Any fighter's first priority is to protect their party members, what's there to trust and not trust about that? Do you honestly believe it's relevent to consider that big gap of damage between a DD and a tanker with regards to how serious they focus on holding aggro or are you just too insane to admit it? :rolleyes:

-threewishes112

It is his belief it says so in his post.

[threewishes112]

It is his belief it says so in his post.

Understood. Everyone has their different opinions, we've been through that before. But I'm not about to change his either. It just didn't quite make sense to me when he tried to make assumptions about other classes based on his own unforunate experience. He is not a fighter to be in a position to judge. Half the time he uses phrases like: "I don't trust.."

I don't like flame wars so this will be my last.
But bare it in mind and bare it clearly: The only thing I know for sure is that all human beings have opinions, he does and so do I...

-threewishes112

[spart5]

Understood. Everyone has their different opinions, we've been through that before. But I'm not about to change his either. It just didn't quite make sense to me when he tried to make assumptions about other classes based on his own unforunate experience. He is not a fighter to be in a position to judge. Half the time he uses phrases like: "I don't trust.."

I don't like flame wars so this will be my last.
But bare it in mind and bare it clearly: The only thing I know for sure is that all human beings have opinions, he does and so do I...

-threewishes112

Well said.

[themichael]

And what u said About DD's not having a place in kq's.
I think Honestly Fighters are all just about the same. =\
Just depends on what weapon they put on.
(I know some of u may disagree with that but thats just my opinion.)

[BLUESTAR☼INC.]

[spart5]

a full end tank cant kill ANYONE of a comparable lv. I build 1 before i know. DD axe fighters DESTROY them.

What about the counteract of a tanks great defence?

[themichael]

1h Tank wont kill any1 but a DD fighter other that that the DD fighter kills all other classes.

[BLUESTAR☼INC.]

[buntd]

Before i start i seriously can't beieve that there are people that are lvl 3x and above that go "huh?" when u tell them you are a DD fighter, but they all know what a tank is....

So on to the DD VS. TANK,
1. obviously the tanks last waaaaayyyy longer than the DD
2. the tank spends less money on hp crystals because they take less dmg
3. the tank pwns the DD more in pvp
BUT
1. (i am a lvl 5x DD fighter) the DD's perform better vs. other classes
2. soloing is easier because mobs die faster( if you fight them 1vs1)
3. that axe is just so shiney!

Opinions on which is better DD or Tank?
P.S. if you have any tips on how to make either one of these very strong please add your tips and comments!

in this game.. unfortunately..

+end is better than +str.. ( i know :( )

i am lvl 61 pure str.. and i find it hard sometimes.. but however real quick kills.
If i was a tank it wuld b soo but easy.. but 2 slow

also, a tank is alot harder to kill.. but DD is deadly XD

I like DD style better, but have found out fighter is really a tanking class and +str is expensive. . i am making a archer now nd seeing the difference xD

[jaxman13]

i feel as though the difference between dd and tank is bascially two different classes. Personally i feel comfortable with being a hybrid, obviously the str fighter will win the PvP battle so i would say for a build is pure str but carrying around a sheild and 1h helps.

[jiraya7879]

i guess it depends on the player not on the build becuz i was fighting a lv50 somthing mage +9 staff tier3 in all except the mentality with buff an he couldnt kill my cleric an my cleric is lv40 a tier1 buff only an a lv 60fighter he had a tier 3 in all an buff an still couldnt until they combine an then i call som freinds a lv 56fighter with tier3 a lv 52cleric an a archerlv40 an a lv51 fighter but the fighter an the archer didnty do anything the 56fighter tanked both the mage an fighter an they couldnt kill im i was healing them but still not all his hp not even the half he kills fast an has a pretty def an he used a axe+nothing i admire him

[allyyCORE]

Before i start i seriously can't beieve that there are people that are lvl 3x and above that go "huh?" when u tell them you are a DD fighter, but they all know what a tank is....

So on to the DD VS. TANK,
1. obviously the tanks last waaaaayyyy longer than the DD
2. the tank spends less money on hp crystals because they take less dmg
3. the tank pwns the DD more in pvp
BUT
1. (i am a lvl 5x DD fighter) the DD's perform better vs. other classes
2. soloing is easier because mobs die faster( if you fight them 1vs1)
3. that axe is just so shiney!

Opinions on which is better DD or Tank?
P.S. if you have any tips on how to make either one of these very strong please add your tips and comments!

Actually, I'm gonna have to disagree with your first 3 statements. I'm a DD'er and I had the grand opportunity to fight a tank OF THE SAME LEVEL, no buffs, no charms, no armor, nothing that would give one of us an upper hand. The only items we had available to us were an NPC Lv.70 Viking Axe for myself, and an NPC Lv.70 sword and shield for the tanker. The use of hp/sp stones were allowed to make the battle more intense.

The result after one hour of fighting was 5 to 5. The battles lasted so long, because none of us would die. Naturally, a DD build is going to deal more damage... and as you all know, devastate pretty much gives it away when you're fighting. I managed to get the other fighter down to his 100's (hp), before stun would wear out and he could recover. In the end, no matter how much I dealt, the challenger was all tank, and his endurance proved to be an axe wielder's true enemy.

As for himself, he was able to devastate me and get a larger amount of hits in, compared to me, since a one-handed sword DOES have a higher attack rate and higher aim. The only downfall was the amount of damage being dealt, which, even for my low defense, was still, not even to bring me down more often.

As mentioned, after one hour of fighting (timed through a third person who used a speed scroll which would disappear after 60 minutes), we remained on even ground.

[deathbringer54]

i seen lots of pure strfighters with t1 scrolls tank md at lvl 57-60 like a fighter i no tanked md better then me (im 1:1 end:str with 10 spr) so yea dd can tank easy

[Horinia]

One thing to bear in mind however, is that as far as skills go, DD'd are fully functional. The tanks biggest potential skill is toughness. Bar none. Adding a 17% block rate (assuming a straight add-on) to a full End builds +7% block rate bonus, plus a shields 5% (80 green/npc 70 blue has 7%) means no matter how "hard" that DD hits, they will be blocked 30% of the time. All a DD will have for damage mitigation beyond the defense, which is the same for both builds, is Eva. And the tank fighter shares that same Eva chance if gears are the same.

Yes as it stands now, DD may have a slight advantage. But that is because Tanks are lacking one of the most important, and potentially best defensive skill out there.

[deathsythe3]

zaraki go with DD if u want to kill quick and lvl super fast i'm an end it takes like 3 hits for me to kill senior torturers but i take less dmg and they always do lower thn 50 dmg to me i got 9+ armor now and 9+ swrd and shield so now even though i am an end i got 9+ armor so i could use my axe and also do big dmg with like 1300+ def just with armor and a 20% def scroll and i also can get up to 1k dmg like all DD's cause of 25+ str on all my armor and weapons

[WarpstonePsycho]

i love being a dd fighter. come fight me then tell me END is better =)

[spart5]

What about the hybrids? Don't they have a place in this???

[vergil18m]

you're so right man DDs owns all, i'm a DD for myself and i never lost 2 a fighter with end build and it's easy for me 2 beat all other classes so if some1 asaking me pure str build on fighters is the best you can do.

[allyyCORE]

One thing to bear in mind however, is that as far as skills go, DD'd are fully functional. The tanks biggest potential skill is toughness. Bar none. Adding a 17% block rate (assuming a straight add-on) to a full End builds +7% block rate bonus, plus a shields 5% (80 green/npc 70 blue has 7%) means no matter how "hard" that DD hits, they will be blocked 30% of the time. All a DD will have for damage mitigation beyond the defense, which is the same for both builds, is Eva. And the tank fighter shares that same Eva chance if gears are the same.

Yes as it stands now, DD may have a slight advantage. But that is because Tanks are lacking one of the most important, and potentially best defensive skill out there.

I completely forgot about toughness. You are completely correct.


What about the hybrids? Don't they have a place in this???

Hybrids are bound to lose against any full END and any full STR. It's a very expensive build, and not in a good way.

[themichael]

My poor lvl 21 2str:1end fighter is doomed to fail then Y_Y

[BLUESTAR☼INC.]

[dskotk]

all i know is that im a fighter =D



5x h0bbEs : Epith


BTW: I can kill higher level fighters

[Dthugtherealist]

Hybrids depending can beat anybody yes they go thru hard times early like str builds but they are way more effective later. The extra defence helps and so does the crit and at least we have good dmg were is the the full end tanker does not. The Michael 2:1 str isnt a bad build you have good dmg and better than pure str DD hp of course depends on armor. I prefer to be a 25spr 50end rest str hybrid 1st its not the same every lvl when you get a stat point you improve every lvl 2nd Im thinking about in the long run like Gladiator perhaps were the possibility of 25spr 50end and maybe 80 to 85str will greatly benefit me. I think pure strengths get the most downtime cuz their gear has to be perfect end gears or they suk in the pve realm. Hybrids can live with not having the perfect end gears and can sacrifice some end from gear to make them self better in another field were is a pure str can't sacrifice 1 ounce of end.

[MindSlash]

It depends in many ways like:
- The way yew play
- Perosnal tastes (i prefer 1h no matter what yew say xD )
- Timing
- Build
and the list can go on... I am 2 end: 1str(maybe not the best build) and Ive been doing good thru PvP and game.

[EriAeris]

Well also... with tankers... they have to buy a sword and shield... trust me and tankers aren't really good in guild wars >.<... especially Full END {Points to herself XP}

[gleeok]

Tank if you want to lvl fast. Trust me, DD can't do anything unless they stumble into a pt. For example, there's repeats that takes HUGE time, the greenkies quest 120 greenkies and 30 bigs. Spores. 60spores from king mushroom but not every mushy gives the damn spore, therefore estimating, it takes to kill about 300mushies. Tank can pull all of these mobs BY THEMSELVES, without sc charms and +9. I saw a lvl44 DD going for robo and died in2hits. 1from its magical attack, and 1from imidiate normal attack. -_-; stupid. While a lvl41 archer with END tanked robo the whole time. Maybe it's good for pvp, but you'll lvl really slow if you don't have pt

[themichael]

Hybrids depending can beat anybody yes they go thru hard times early like str builds but they are way more effective later. The extra defence helps and so does the crit and at least we have good dmg were is the the full end tanker does not. The Michael 2:1 str isnt a bad build you have good dmg and better than pure str DD hp of course depends on armor. I prefer to be a 25spr 50end rest str hybrid 1st its not the same every lvl when you get a stat point you improve every lvl 2nd Im thinking about in the long run like Gladiator perhaps were the possibility of 25spr 50end and maybe 80 to 85str will greatly benefit me. I think pure strengths get the most downtime cuz their gear has to be perfect end gears or they suk in the pve realm. Hybrids can live with not having the perfect end gears and can sacrifice some end from gear to make them self better in another field were is a pure str can't sacrifice 1 ounce of end.

Wow thanks that helps alot thanks for the info.
But I really dont even get on that fighter to much Im to glued to my archer with the same build except (END is substituted with SPR).
Playin fighter just isnt really my style.
(to touchy)

[BLUESTAR☼INC.]

[Dthugtherealist]

DD fighters can tank depending on gears I've tanked with just a +9 axe in pve in kq's and I've owned any class. 2 hits from robo please I've tanked him several times takes up to 10 hits but thats why you have teams to take him down you have clerics in your pt to be successful unless you have SC pots and can protect the whole pt from doom not advisable to tank yourself no matter how much def you have. If you seriously think you can tank the boss your self don't get a pt just stay by ureself and solo the boss when u realize ure not competent enuff to solo it then ure gonna realize that a good DD can b used in any pt.

[jaxman13]

hmm might thoughts about the tank is that a tank is limited and the DD r limited to different things~many ppl say that the dd is the more important part of the fighter section though i have to differ and say the tank is also very valuable. As a fighter i do notice that DD fighters can tank A perfect example woud be the spder KQ~the giant spider summons many small spiders and nibbles on the tank~if the tank is a DD fighter in disguise with a 1h and sheild~it will be mayd clear he is not a tank wen u see is face smushied on the floor as he screams for a rezz~on the other hand a true tank end 1h and sheild end on da gears will survive much longer and will be able to defeat gs~just an example to show that tanks r not "pointless" (i can tell ya da mages would say tank! rather than DD) :) THis of course is based on a tank scenario~other times like in PvP the DD will pwn if his build supports the name (full str maybe sum spr) The DDs also own at soloing for the most part~how ever the tank is much greater at soloing AOEing as the tank can carry more mobs thus using his aoes will make his speed as fast as a DD killing individual mobs.

[yoyi2011]

i think full end is the best

[A_geezy]

straight up hybrid FTW!!

end-spr-dex or str

substitute what you're lacking with only mediocre gears and a +9 = PvP & PVE pwnage; when you get to those higher levels it becomes even more awesome to just imagine the look on that level 7X mage's face when frost nova only does 600 damage.

[hyutten]

hmmm ok so basically DD's should wander around and solo the sweet heel out of mobs but should stay far away from kq's( unless they are prepared), one thing i have to agree on is that tank are more useful in parties, but i think in duo's DD would be better, what would u guys say if i asked your opinion more to the PvP side?

Me I'm a DD with full +9s, with PvP fighting a pure END fighter even when he has full +9s and relativly close gears, I seem to find an advantage. When it comes to a PvP fight it really depends on who your fighting, a fully scrolled mage would have an easy time picking away at a DD fighter's health from a distance, especially at higher levels with two skills that can slow, fear, and stifle. For that tanks have an advantage with hp, (even if its just one hit more). For archers DD's, clerics DD's. Basically I prefer DD's with being able to outlast dmg just with there hp alone.

[andrey1990]

As a member of the *support* class in the game I can honestly say my preference is to party with a *Tank*. A full END fighter wearing gear and using a sword and shield that has max STR does deal decent damage. They arent squishy which gives the cleric time to heal other members in the party.

A common occurance in kkq:

DD fighter 1 *Who is going to tank *Slime*? I cant.
DD fighter 2 *Not me*
DD fighter 3 *Any END fighters here*?

Time to kill King Kong:

DD fighter 1 *Rez please*
DD fighter 2 *Dam you clerics, heal me*

Small mobs spawn and the DD fighter cant take the damage from KK and the mobs, so many kkq's fail these days. If you are lucky enough to get in a kkq with a Tank or a DD fighter who knows the value of adding loads of END to their gear and they are prepared to switch to a 1h/shield kkq will rarely fail.

Both the Tank and DD fighter have their place in the game and I dont consider one to be better than the other if they take advantage of additional stats on gear.

DD fighter in slime? O.o i tought only at 20+ you can be DD :confused: i know tanker its 1h and shield and DD 2h sword or axe :confused: oh well..

[buntd]

Before i start i seriously can't beieve that there are people that are lvl 3x and above that go "huh?" when u tell them you are a DD fighter, but they all know what a tank is....

So on to the DD VS. TANK,
1. obviously the tanks last waaaaayyyy longer than the DD
2. the tank spends less money on hp crystals because they take less dmg
3. the tank pwns the DD more in pvp
BUT
1. (i am a lvl 5x DD fighter) the DD's perform better vs. other classes
2. soloing is easier because mobs die faster( if you fight them 1vs1)
3. that axe is just so shiney!

Opinions on which is better DD or Tank?
P.S. if you have any tips on how to make either one of these very strong please add your tips and comments!

Whoever has +9s / Extenders / Charms

@ andrey.. he is taking about kkp.. 7X KQ :P

[allyyCORE]

Tank if you want to lvl fast. Trust me, DD can't do anything unless they stumble into a pt. For example, there's repeats that takes HUGE time, the greenkies quest 120 greenkies and 30 bigs. Spores. 60spores from king mushroom but not every mushy gives the damn spore, therefore estimating, it takes to kill about 300mushies. Tank can pull all of these mobs BY THEMSELVES, without sc charms and +9. I saw a lvl44 DD going for robo and died in2hits. 1from its magical attack, and 1from imidiate normal attack. -_-; stupid. While a lvl41 archer with END tanked robo the whole time. Maybe it's good for pvp, but you'll lvl really slow if you don't have pt

You're very wrong about that; I've soloed the majority of my character (now Lv.83) and I've never EVER had to depend on a party. If I joined a party, it was simply because I didn't feel like soloing. FULL STR DD.

Whoever that Lv.44 DD'er was probably not any good. You just can't say that an archer is way much better than a DD'er... first of all, fighters naturally have more defense, and you have to take into account whether that archer is using +9 armor or not.

[luv2chat1992]

As a cleric I would want to duo with a DD or have a pt with a tank and a mage or two.
Tanks would be terrible to duo with because they sacrifice damage for hp and def when they choose to be full end. DDs however, though they may pull smaller mobs, kill them much faster, thus fast exp.
I prefer a DD fighter...I rarely find myself in a big party, I like to solo and duo.
And I also like that big shiney +9 axe (;.
Also, you don't get any special prize for being able to hold a huge mob for a long time. However you do get the prize of exp and drops for being able to kill a huge mob in a short time.

[luv2chat1992]

Tank if you want to lvl fast. Trust me, DD can't do anything unless they stumble into a pt. For example, there's repeats that takes HUGE time, the greenkies quest 120 greenkies and 30 bigs. Spores. 60spores from king mushroom but not every mushy gives the damn spore, therefore estimating, it takes to kill about 300mushies. Tank can pull all of these mobs BY THEMSELVES, without sc charms and +9. I saw a lvl44 DD going for robo and died in2hits. 1from its magical attack, and 1from imidiate normal attack. -_-; stupid. While a lvl41 archer with END tanked robo the whole time. Maybe it's good for pvp, but you'll lvl really slow if you don't have pt

Not true.
DD's can't tank a boss, thats why they are DD's.
But soloing is a breeze for a DD. They still have fighters high HP and DEF, but they also do amazing damage.
As to those repeat quests, sure, a tank can pull all of them, but how long does it take him to kill 300mushies, 120 greenkies and 30 bigs? Probably a LOT longer then it would take a DD to take a few at a time and kill them very easily.


The difference between a DD and a tank is simple...tank has higher def and hp, DD has much higher dmg. Def and hp can be fixed with simple vit and def scrolls. There is no dmg scroll. The only power scroll is really an aim scroll, even better for the axe.

[mechabionic]

Full STR DD all the way, It's just funner. To me a full end tank is like fighting with a cleric. Slow and steady, not as fun. Thats my opinion though. As for KQ, i tank a lot of time when im at the higher lvls of the quest

[Panzehao]

A lot of this depend on your gear i mean even a pure int mage can tank with +9 equip. You can't realy compare unless you give them all the same equips and test it out. I say all of them are fine. For me as a lvl 60 pure end fighter i switch to 2h +9 coz i need the damage to keep agro. With mages getting nova that does so much damage>.< its realy hard to keep agro on large mobs(like 20+) coz mock just suck i mean 6 monsters>.< so it depend a lot on you equips. I like both build(never try dd but fight and pt with them before and they do hit hardXD) i can hold my own with 2h no tr3 againist lvl 60+ dd with +9 axe. Untill they start critialign like cray in a rows lol. But ya all builds have their ups and down and good equips can cover lots of them up.

[themichael]

A DD can tank a boss easy.
Just strap on a couple t3s and hes got it.
unless its robo or MiniD that uses Magic Damage.

[BLUESTAR☼INC.]

[Panzehao]

Like i said anyone can tank with the right equips and scroll. If you realy want to find out which is better give them all np stuff and fight it out i guess lol.

[epithrocks]

DD works better for me, if u have godly gear and u +9 it and use spark cash to buy extender, charm,critical suit and a +9 godly axe, u can own any1 :p
i know a few lvl 50 fighter that are DD with +9 godly gear and they have like +1,2xx Def. and they can tank really good . and they keep all d agro 2 :cool:
normal DD lvl 50 has like 400 def and tank has like 500 only like a few 100 more def

[ahtai]

Well to me END or heavy END fighter is fighter who can tank and can be in full party mode. DD fighter (pure STR), archer and mages classified under squshies.

So unless there is a fighter (Tanker) in party, it is no good for AOE party. The heal will spread so thin even fully empowered, or end up Cleric will be the Tanker as all mob will be pulled by the heal aggro. Too easy to max out cleric's healing power and everybody dies. What is worse is with DD fighter in party, the killing is slow so when all aggro on cleric, the mob still not die fast enough.

Now on duo party, mages got most damage, archer go second and DD fighter go last. Why do I want a DD fighter in my party when I can get a mage to kill faster for me.

Conclusion, nope, I will not party with a DD fighter. As cleric, they just waste my SP stone may as well solo to get more drops and less stone usage.

My fighter is 50 END and rest SPR and DEX combo in future plan. I can solo a whole room with my own little AOE party and very efficient. I can even protect squsies come along with mock if want to team up with me.

[A_geezy]

this whole thread is a totally lame argument >.>

Fighters are supposed to do both hence the awesome DD skills and the naturally high End (more than any other class). Figure it out seriously... there are three* essential stats that a fighter needs: Spr, End, Dex (enhance any weapon to +6 and you've totally compensated for the Str free stat bonus). Just find gears that compensate for the stats you're not getting from free points; for instance if you go 25 spr rest end, find gears with mediocre (don't have to be godly at all) spr & dex/str.

Easy enough... every fighter should be able to tank, rofl who can hold aggro better than a character who has skills designed specifically for that purpose?? Likewise every fighter should be able to deal an acceptable amount of physical damage, again... we have the best skills for that, forget DPS, everyone complains that fighters are overpowered because we are.

one last thought: strip away cash shop handicaps (rofl lvl 55s with 1.2k defense & 3+kHP) and run everyone through mini d or honeying (or any kq for that matter). Who will tank? Fighters everytime, there is no way any other class can hold aggro over the squishies. Who will deal the most physical damage? the fighters with 25spr in their builds using axes with good str equips every time(str in the build is helpful, but not essential since maxing out vitality can give increased damage 75% of the time).

fighters ftw :D


*arguably four: Str, Dex, End, Spr in no particular order of relevance. I omitted Str because in my opinion you don't need it; +9 weapons eliminate the need for Str in a build, but even if you argue those away, maxing out vitality's c/d and duration will give the same dmg as a pure Str build 75% of the time.

[traceurmouse]

My opinion is now that end barely helps...
50 end only adds 25 def and 250hp
that's nothing, 50str does WAY more.
I regretted being an end fighter so i've started to change my build to spr/str.

[Dthugtherealist]

Maybe back in the day a full str or str/25spr wasn't really good for anything except soloing. Now in these modern times your seeing way more DD's why? Hp can be easily compensated through heavy end equips extenders SC pots defense can be compensated through fully+9ing your gear then they throw on S/S and you really can't tell the difference. DD's effectively become better tanks cuz they hold agro exponentially better than full end S/S tanks their damage allows them to hold up to 30 monsters at one time!!!!! When your in kq's the cleric heals the Tank wether DD or not usually the DD becomes the main tank cuz of their High Damage output so the Cleric is forced for the kq's success to heal the DD. So the DD's take over especially in my server more and more DD's are learning how to better Tank. In my opinion DD Tanks are and have to be way smarter than full end tanks to survive. DD is not for the weak its for the cunning and strong and the person who wants to use his deadliest aspect to its full potential.

[themichael]

Thats what i always said to DD fighters that were scared to tank.
"A fighter is a fighter just get ya S/S out. =D"
and they did great.

[BLUESTAR☼INC.]

[TITLE]

this whole thread is a totally lame argument >.>

Fighters are supposed to do both hence the awesome DD skills and the naturally high End (more than any other class). Figure it out seriously... there are three* essential stats that a fighter needs: Spr, End, Dex (enhance any weapon to +6 and you've totally compensated for the Str free stat bonus). Just find gears that compensate for the stats you're not getting from free points; for instance if you go 25 spr rest end, find gears with mediocre (don't have to be godly at all) spr & dex/str.

Easy enough... every fighter should be able to tank, rofl who can hold aggro better than a character who has skills designed specifically for that purpose?? Likewise every fighter should be able to deal an acceptable amount of physical damage, again... we have the best skills for that, forget DPS, everyone complains that fighters are overpowered because we are.

one last thought: strip away cash shop handicaps (rofl lvl 55s with 1.2k defense & 3+kHP) and run everyone through mini d or honeying (or any kq for that matter). Who will tank? Fighters everytime, there is no way any other class can hold aggro over the squishies. Who will deal the most physical damage? the fighters with 25spr in their builds using axes with good str equips every time(str in the build is helpful, but not essential since maxing out vitality can give increased damage 75% of the time).

fighters ftw :D


*arguably four: Str, Dex, End, Spr in no particular order of relevance. I omitted Str because in my opinion you don't need it; +9 weapons eliminate the need for Str in a build, but even if you argue those away, maxing out vitality's c/d and duration will give the same dmg as a pure Str build 75% of the time.


Oh why thank you on defining who I am..

I'll just point out that even with all that said, people still prefer to excell in STR due to it's power impact in the current Fiesta. +9 covers the STR damage and it's build sure, yet +9 + full STR flip-flops and excells more in one specific field. Like someone has already said, the current SC now covers all fields of stats besides Mdef, Aim, and Eva.

[othico]

who won :O to silly to readd all that

[zues8844]

Full str, +9 axe, max end/str/spr equips, extender, charms.

That's me, and unless I lag, nothing has killed me yet. 1,6k HP at level 28.

[A_geezy]

Oh why thank you on defining who I am..

I'll just point out that even with all that said, people still prefer to excell in STR due to it's power impact in the current Fiesta. +9 covers the STR damage and it's build sure, yet +9 + full STR flip-flops and excells more in one specific field. Like someone has already said, the current SC now covers all fields of stats besides Mdef, Aim, and Eva.


Lol this coming from the full Dex fighter which, btw I actually like your build (I would have added 25spr, but that's just me)... True true, many people are willing to rely on SC items to make up for the deficienies in their builds, but then isn't that the clearest indicator that something is wrong with the build?


Full str, +9 axe, max end/str/spr equips, extender, charms.

That's me, and unless I lag, nothing has killed me yet. 1,6k HP at level 28.

I guess I thought we were trying to figure out which build is the best, but apparently the answer is simply whoever is willing to spend the most money :) ... not a bad thing at all, just digresses from the point of this thread.


who won :O to silly to readd all that

Your guess is as good as mine, I guess DD fighters win if you spend $20 a month on SC stuff; which is definitely a good price to make the gaming experience easy, other MMOs charge like $15 a month just to be able to log in and play...

[Dthugtherealist]

Spending 20$ a month isn't the only option you gotta be smart and put your hustle on to make full str or str/spr fighters worth while. My guy is a hybrid but I would like to do full str on a fighter sometime in the future when Im rich and enjoy the equips on the new fighter that I would probably never enjoy on my fighter now:D

[TITLE]

Lol this coming from the full Dex fighter which, btw I actually like your build (I would have added 25spr, but that's just me)... True true, many people are willing to rely on SC items to make up for the deficienies in their builds, but then isn't that the clearest indicator that something is wrong with the build?



I guess I thought we were trying to figure out which build is the best, but apparently the answer is simply whoever is willing to spend the most money :) ... not a bad thing at all, just digresses from the point of this thread.



Your guess is as good as mine, I guess DD fighters win if you spend $20 a month on SC stuff; which is definitely a good price to make the gaming experience easy, other MMOs charge like $15 a month just to be able to log in and play...


My thoughts are some what like that. It's just more reasonable in the first place, before the launch of SC, back then to utilize the build system and cover what's lost or strengthen current powers. Of course I elaborated with the talk of STR to say SC has it's ways with things now and I can happily go to other builds too. I've tried all fundamentals of the builds already and I still fall back in love with DEX 'just' because.

Month wise $15-20 is a decent price to pay for more goodies to the game. There's just some lack of stuff to pop around too even after spending so much in a month considering how some MMOs just need $15 to have access to all essentials within the game.

[bomme]

Cant we just all get along, we're all fighters, we should be united, helping each other out not sparking flame wars. We should be leveling with our fellow tankers and dds, and most importantly, we should be going into pvp and kicking all the other classes asses in.


-Kinest

[falapt]

Wow, necroed

[silph]

it was only almost half a year ago

[i_like_rice]

lol im either a DD or TANK im just rice and i pwn most people

[silph]

tank ftw

10char

[falapt]

tank ftw

10char

x2

10char

[saqklodsw]

ok you said tank's have no place in pvp pffft my char jackleoffait lvl 63 epith server i pvp alot of people and im kinda tank build

[allyyCORE]

Before i start i seriously can't beieve that there are people that are lvl 3x and above that go "huh?" when u tell them you are a DD fighter, but they all know what a tank is....

So on to the DD VS. TANK,
1. obviously the tanks last waaaaayyyy longer than the DD
2. the tank spends less money on hp crystals because they take less dmg
3. the tank pwns the DD more in pvp
BUT
1. (i am a lvl 5x DD fighter) the DD's perform better vs. other classes
2. soloing is easier because mobs die faster( if you fight them 1vs1)
3. that axe is just so shiney!

Opinions on which is better DD or Tank?
P.S. if you have any tips on how to make either one of these very strong please add your tips and comments!

1. the tank may last longer, but the dd deals more damage over time.
2. the tank spends less money on hp crystals, but the damage dealt by a tank would prove that a dd doesn't have to worry too much about hp crystals either.
3. in my experiments, the tank and the dd came up tied, winning 50% of the time on each side out of 100 battles (50 by the dd, 50 by the tank)

[FlaredanceR]

Tanks ftw. I've tried both and must say tank wins in my book; as an immediate example, as a low lv, I attempted to solo Marlone on the DD got him to 1/2 health and then got royally beat >.> Tried it at the same lv with my tank and I OWNED him without a bit of panic. Had no +9 gears, and was fully scrolled (for that lv). In KQ's, every time I was on my DD I ended up making us fail (don't ask >.>) and on my tank I have failed one time on Gold Hill cuz people wouldn't open the dam door~ D:< Stupid overly-sensative archer...

[allyyCORE]

Tanks ftw. I've tried both and must say tank wins in my book; as an immediate example, as a low lv, I attempted to solo Marlone on the DD got him to 1/2 health and then got royally beat >.> Tried it at the same lv with my tank and I OWNED him without a bit of panic. Had no +9 gears, and was fully scrolled (for that lv). In KQ's, every time I was on my DD I ended up making us fail (don't ask >.>) and on my tank I have failed one time on Gold Hill cuz people wouldn't open the dam door~ D:< Stupid overly-sensative archer...

the lower levels in a fighter are easily hands down tank, because the only real skill seperating the two types of fighters is power hit.

you should base this at lv.60+ when it's clear that the fighter and tank are begining to look different from each other.

[Sesshomaru]

DD's will fall before mages.
DD's have low def (unless full +9 which is really expensive)

Tanks can use a 2h so their dmg output wouldn't be horrible.
Tanks can stand up to anything and have ridiculous amounts of hp.

Tank against DD, I'd lean more towards tank because they will still deal decent dmg on the dd, but if a dd crits a lot it may hurt tank. against other classes, if you can't take a hit, your going to get run over, but since I'm pretty sure dd's have dash, they can keep up with runners.

[FrostyFruit]

I like my tank fighter more then my DD fighter. I like how easily my fighter can solo in abyss without aim or defence scrolls. Plus, the added M. Def from the shield. On my DD fighter, I rely on tier 3 scrolls too much.

My DD fighter is fun for PvP fights, but my tank fighter can just lower the attack and stun the opposing player trying to kill me. I'm pretty much safe on my tank. I like stunning fighters and tank shrooming the DD fighters. In PvP, what is most fun is to irritate others. Which is easy for my tank.

Well, so far my tank is good in many aspects and I continue to enjoy the benefits of soloing even though the killing may be slower then a DD fighter.

[AngryAnt333]

I made both a DD and Tank Fighter before. I prefer DD. But if you want to save money and other players lives then go pure END. At level 20 in the abyss i take 6-7 Damage per hit from Phinos.... At Level 20. But, I do low damage as well. Now even if you do make Pure END for soul stone cost. Remember that your guna have to +9 2 weaps not just 1.

[violence]

honestly either can do well in the opposite job a dd can be a tank if they know what they are doing and have the gear to back it up and a tank can be a dd if they know what they are doing and have the gear to back it up your stats dont change a whole lot of things stats make very little difference in this game stats on gears make a whole lot of difference in this game and skill matters also look to the left real quick at the previous 3 words skill also matters skill matters more then stats on your char or on your gear

[violence]

this whole thread is a totally lame argument >.>

Fighters are supposed to do both hence the awesome DD skills and the naturally high End (more than any other class). Figure it out seriously... there are three* essential stats that a fighter needs: Spr, End, Dex (enhance any weapon to +6 and you've totally compensated for the Str free stat bonus). Just find gears that compensate for the stats you're not getting from free points; for instance if you go 25 spr rest end, find gears with mediocre (don't have to be godly at all) spr & dex/str.

Easy enough... every fighter should be able to tank, rofl who can hold aggro better than a character who has skills designed specifically for that purpose?? Likewise every fighter should be able to deal an acceptable amount of physical damage, again... we have the best skills for that, forget DPS, everyone complains that fighters are overpowered because we are.

one last thought: strip away cash shop handicaps (rofl lvl 55s with 1.2k defense & 3+kHP) and run everyone through mini d or honeying (or any kq for that matter). Who will tank? Fighters everytime, there is no way any other class can hold aggro over the squishies. Who will deal the most physical damage? the fighters with 25spr in their builds using axes with good str equips every time(str in the build is helpful, but not essential since maxing out vitality can give increased damage 75% of the time).

fighters ftw :D


*arguably four: Str, Dex, End, Spr in no particular order of relevance. I omitted Str because in my opinion you don't need it; +9 weapons eliminate the need for Str in a build, but even if you argue those away, maxing out vitality's c/d and duration will give the same dmg as a pure Str build 75% of the time.

uh your wrong on the strip it all away and a fighter will tank mini dragon thing i was the first mage to tank mini dragon ever and cash shop didnt exist then lvl cap was still 59 and i was tanking mini d at lvl 54 on a mage

[aznxdarrenx2]

my build is a pvp class or what i think it is 25 spr for crt and str 2x the amount of end so i have good dmg from str and a good amount of end to back you up so u dont die easly i really recommend this build becuz its good for soloing and pvping and basicly everything and im a +9 item user so its even better

[jjduman6891]

tanks suck dds rule

[spyro_cynder]

i was thinking about getting a fighter or archer as i'm going to get sc crit suits. i'd have 23% from crit suit, 5% from 25SPR (yes i'd either do 25SPR/rest STR if DD or rest END if tank) that's 28% + 1% from necklage = 29% + 3% from sword (+5% from lisence) we go to a total of 37% crit.

i tought Ok the only bad point about tankers are their low damage output wich in some cases the DD becomes the tanker, or just that tank can't kill fast enough. i was wondering if i did 25SPR/rest END and items with +STR. noting that i'd have 37% crit (without items included but the necklage) he would hit alot of crits (don't forget i ALWAYS use scroll-set [vitality, mentality, defence, Mdefece, aim, evasion, speed] as i'm scroll maker this doesn't cost me alot. i was thinking the damage output of a crit tanker could be not bad. it would have loads of HP, good block beceause of END, good damage beceause of items adding+STR and the 37% crit chance? or do people still sya that if i'd put those crits on a DD axe fighter (39% crits) is better then putting them on a tanker ? (i was just wondering) i like both PvP and PvE.

[boxboi]

Well a tank could always +9 an axe or 2h and have great dmg. Of course with pure str you do more but, your a tank build, your designed to survive.

[leobaloy]

DD's will fall before mages.
DD's have low def (unless full +9 which is really expensive)

Tanks can use a 2h so their dmg output wouldn't be horrible.
Tanks can stand up to anything and have ridiculous amounts of hp.

Tank against DD, I'd lean more towards tank because they will still deal decent dmg on the dd, but if a dd crits a lot it may hurt tank. against other classes, if you can't take a hit, your going to get run over, but since I'm pretty sure dd's have dash, they can keep up with runners.

I'm pure str and have ridiculous amounts of hp :)

[boxboi]

Yea true, lol every one does with godly end gear and extenders, but yea tanks would still have more hp.

[spyro_cynder]

i was thinking about getting a fighter or archer as i'm going to get sc crit suits. i'd have 23% from crit suit, 5% from 25SPR (yes i'd either do 25SPR/rest STR if DD or rest END if tank) that's 28% + 1% from necklage = 29% + 3% from sword (+5% from lisence) we go to a total of 37% crit.

i tought Ok the only bad point about tankers are their low damage output wich in some cases the DD becomes the tanker, or just that tank can't kill fast enough. i was wondering if i did 25SPR/rest END and items with +STR. noting that i'd have 37% crit (without items included but the necklage) he would hit alot of crits (don't forget i ALWAYS use scroll-set [vitality, mentality, defence, Mdefece, aim, evasion, speed] as i'm scroll maker this doesn't cost me alot. i was thinking the damage output of a crit tanker could be not bad. it would have loads of HP, good block beceause of END, good damage beceause of items adding+STR and the 37% crit chance? or do people still sya that if i'd put those crits on a DD axe fighter (39% crits) is better then putting them on a tanker ? (i was just wondering) i like both PvP and PvE.

can someone respond to that :D?

[xlilmanx3]

lol im start im a noob but it looks like dd is better and tank only can take dmg they cant cause it.

[boxboi]

lol im start im a noob but it looks like dd is better and tank only can take dmg they cant cause it.

nah dd isn't better nor is tank, they both balance each other out. One can take dmg better and one can hit harder, but then again a dd could pick up a sheild, and a tank could use an axe.

[Dylextic]

In pvp a tank with full +9 gear and a 1h and shield +9 wont die from a DD ever, and if they have godly crit like my full end frighter theyll kill the DD fast....and vs other classes DD kills faster and dies faster, and tank kills a lil slower if they use an axe and dont die...xD

And grinding most DD's cant take as big of a mob as tanks..sooooo tank > DD anyday

[allyyCORE]

Well a tank could always +9 an axe or 2h and have great dmg. Of course with pure str you do more but, your a tank build, your designed to survive.

a tank who's always got lower damage will always see a difference when holding a +9 axe. I think any class would. But compare that damage to the damage of a DD wielding the same +9 axe. YOU SIMPLY CANNOT MATCH THEM.

A good tank will never fall no matter how strong a DD hits, and a good DD will always keep a tank on his/her 'tippy toes'.

[Dylextic]

a tank who's always got lower damage will always see a difference when holding a +9 axe. I think any class would. But compare that damage to the damage of a DD wielding the same +9 axe. YOU SIMPLY CANNOT MATCH THEM.

A good tank will never fall no matter how strong a DD hits, and a good DD will always keep a tank on his/her 'tippy toes'.

If its a good tank then the tank will hit higher cause the DD will hit bad enough w/ the 1h and shield, and still hit bad when he switches to axe with 48% crit and pwns him.... TANK > DD....oh and, at lvl 129, the knights shield has 7k def and armor is like 2k ea..

[leobaloy]

If its a good tank then the tank will hit higher cause the DD will hit bad enough w/ the 1h and shield, and still hit bad when he switches to axe with 48% crit and pwns him.... TANK > DD....oh and, at lvl 129, the knights shield has 7k def and armor is like 2k ea..

lol i wanna see a tank kill me
and where are you getting your numbers from? o.o

and i notice your fighter is still 4x lmfao

when you get your fighter to higher levels you'll see o;

[Dylextic]

lol i wanna see a tank kill me
and where are you getting your numbers from? o.o

and i notice your fighter is still 4x lmfao

when you get your fighter to higher levels you'll see o;

Shine online website, translator ftw. and 4x fighter isnt my main and my only fighter o.o read the siggy~

Oh, and, i wanna see you kill a tank at lvl 130 blue shield is 28.6k def +9ed xD

[leobaloy]

Shine online website, translator ftw. and 4x fighter isnt my main and my only fighter o.o read the siggy~

Oh, and, i wanna see you kill a tank at lvl 130 blue shield is 28.6k def +9ed xD

that website says our class change is at lv120 :rolleyes:
and look...ours is at 100
what makes you think they'll keep it the same?

and your main is a DD fighter, not a tank