"selling gold cheap!!!" So annoying.

[laady]

You know all those people who shout and whisper you about how so and so site is selling Gold or Spark Cash or something, I forget how that works, and it costs so much money? Is there no way to, I don't know, get rid of those sites or what have you? I get about four or five of those messages in one whack so I block the sender but they're still there, taking up space, pushing my conversation up off the screen. And I'm assuming those accounts are dealt with right? Even if they're not, wouldn't it be easier to attack the sites instead of the people sending out the messages? Would that even be possible?

[autarchaurzel]

not possible really, and those spammers are blocked, banned, ip banned and everything like that, unfortunately its fairly easy to make a new account and start again

[wannabeguyo]

Well, there is always the almighty hardware ban. I doubt they would go out and buy a new computer just to spam a few people. I'm still wondering why the staff has not tried this :X.

[spart5]

I know watcha mean, I'm whispering to my friend and we get this conversation nd this stupid whisperer comes in and I start whisping to him! took me like 20 minutes to realize.

[Gilgaeth]

You'd think that after a while, they'd figure out that they are just counter-working against themselves. If I ever had any temptation to buy gold from a website, it died long ago when you enter a major city and u keep getting spammed. Too bad there isnt a pvp server where u can at least kill them to get some satisfaction out of blocking them.

Oh and the whole, unblocked when relog is kinda dumb. I think it would be better if there was an ignore list, where u type in a name and that person cant interract with you at all. And if you decided to be merciful or accidently block the wrong person, u can delete from that list. Kinda like the oppisite of the Friend list. (sorry if I got off topic there XD)

[grummin]

And I'm assuming those accounts are dealt with right? Even if they're not, wouldn't it be easier to attack the sites instead of the people sending out the messages? Would that even be possible?

Well, a few points. First, those aren't really people doing the spamming, at least not directly. They're bots. Create character, login, set up script to make character repeat same thing at regular intervals, go to work and let your spambot do its thing.

As far as attacking "the site" as opposed to "the spammers" they're effectively one and the same. However I quite agree that if the web site they're spamming ceases to exist, logically the spammers set up to advertise the site should as well. But the real world creates several potential problems there.

Getting any web site shut down can range from child's play to nearly impossible, depending on where the site is hosted. Sure, someone running a free AOL-hosted site for one of these operations, no problem- Outspark/OnsOnSoft contacts AOL, points out this is grounds for legal action, AOL shuts site down, boom. Easy, right? Yup...the site's down for maybe a good hour before they've found themselves another host.

The site's host could be in another country...with any number of legal hurdles to pass. Some countries will gladly work with you to get such a site shut down- others will tell you your rules don't apply, and that you should go suck rocks. Even in countries amenable to cooperation, the company hosting the site might well know how to "game" their country's legal system to make getting a ruling for removal of the site nearly impossible. Or know how to drag the process out long enough to make Outspark/OnsOnSoft "cut their losses" and drop the matter before the expenditure gets too high for their tastes.

Add to the above that it's likely (if not an outright given) that the people running these sites know somebody's after them...they may already have 6 more sites set up on different hosts, ready to activate the next one in line the moment one is shut down, and you can quickly end up playing a possibly global game of whack-a-mole trying to get them all.

The cheapest method? The Metallica/Napster piracy lawsuit model: Going after the distributors costs serious money, so go after their customers and starve them out by choking off their revenue stream.

How would you implement this in the current case? Wave the ToS, and point out that doing business with these sites is a violation and will get you banned. Then, start banning. As clearly demonstrated in the Napster case, it can work. As also clearly illustrated by the Napster case, the public relations fallout can be of truly nuclear magnitude in terms of damage to one's reputation. You can easily end up winning the battle, while losing the war in spectacular fashion.

It's a really tricky balance...if there's an open and obvious effort to pursue the offending web sites directly, along with hitting them in the wallet by taking out their customers, you can succeed overall.

If, on the other hand, there's no trace whatsoever of evidence suggesting the web sites are being pursued, while you hammer their customers mercilessly, don't be surprised if you end up with the reputation of a mindless ogre. Especially if the only way to go after their customers is by going after your own customers. No matter how righteous your bans are, every banned account can result in 20 "good customers" ticked off that their buddy got banned while there is no apparent evidence of any penalty to the scammer.

Mind you, I personally in this case have no problem with the shotgun approach- in a little over a month, I've seen plenty of announcements in-game warning of the possible penalties for using these sites, and thus have no trouble whatsoever with the mentality "If you were stupid enough to buy from them, you asked for it so shut up and suck it up." None. Nil.

And no, the occasional vague press release or forum post saying "We're doing everything we can about this" does not count as evidence of going after the source. It looks like standard corporate stonewalling, which often (though not invariably) leads to the perception that something is being covered up.

Very little information, for instance "Our legal team is pursuing action against these sites," gives away no corporate secrets and gives the impression that at least something is being done. No post whatsoever leaves the public to guess -but also avoids the "what are you trying to hide?" reaction caused by the generic "we're doing something...trust us" approach.

There really aren't any quick, easy solutions, sadly.

[wannabeguyo]

Well, a few points. First, those aren't really people doing the spamming, at least not directly. They're bots. Create character, login, set up script to make character repeat same thing at regular intervals, go to work and let your spambot do its thing.

As far as attacking "the site" as opposed to "the spammers" they're effectively one and the same. However I quite agree that if the web site they're spamming ceases to exist, logically the spammers set up to advertise the site should as well. But the real world creates several potential problems there.

Getting any web site shut down can range from child's play to nearly impossible, depending on where the site is hosted. Sure, someone running a free AOL-hosted site for one of these operations, no problem- Outspark/OnsOnSoft contacts AOL, points out this is grounds for legal action, AOL shuts site down, boom. Easy, right? Yup...the site's down for maybe a good hour before they've found themselves another host.

The site's host could be in another country...with any number of legal hurdles to pass. Some countries will gladly work with you to get such a site shut down- others will tell you your rules don't apply, and that you should go suck rocks. Even in countries amenable to cooperation, the company hosting the site might well know how to "game" their country's legal system to make getting a ruling for removal of the site nearly impossible. Or know how to drag the process out long enough to make Outspark/OnsOnSoft "cut their losses" and drop the matter before the expenditure gets too high for their tastes.

Add to the above that it's likely (if not an outright given) that the people running these sites know somebody's after them...they may already have 6 more sites set up on different hosts, ready to activate the next one in line the moment one is shut down, and you can quickly end up playing a possibly global game of whack-a-mole trying to get them all.

The cheapest method? The Metallica/Napster piracy lawsuit model: Going after the distributors costs serious money, so go after their customers and starve them out by choking off their revenue stream.

How would you implement this in the current case? Wave the ToS, and point out that doing business with these sites is a violation and will get you banned. Then, start banning. As clearly demonstrated in the Napster case, it can work. As also clearly illustrated by the Napster case, the public relations fallout can be of truly nuclear magnitude in terms of damage to one's reputation. You can easily end up winning the battle, while losing the war in spectacular fashion.

It's a really tricky balance...if there's an open and obvious effort to pursue the offending web sites directly, along with hitting them in the wallet by taking out their customers, you can succeed overall.

If, on the other hand, there's no trace whatsoever of evidence suggesting the web sites are being pursued, while you hammer their customers mercilessly, don't be surprised if you end up with the reputation of a mindless ogre. Especially if the only way to go after their customers is by going after your own customers. No matter how righteous your bans are, every banned account can result in 20 "good customers" ticked off that their buddy got banned while there is no apparent evidence of any penalty to the scammer.

Mind you, I personally in this case have no problem with the shotgun approach- in a little over a month, I've seen plenty of announcements in-game warning of the possible penalties for using these sites, and thus have no trouble whatsoever with the mentality "If you were stupid enough to buy from them, you asked for it so shut up and suck it up." None. Nil.

And no, the occasional vague press release or forum post saying "We're doing everything we can about this" does not count as evidence of going after the source. It looks like standard corporate stonewalling, which often (though not invariably) leads to the perception that something is being covered up.

Very little information, for instance "Our legal team is pursuing action against these sites," gives away no corporate secrets and gives the impression that at least something is being done. No post whatsoever leaves the public to guess -but also avoids the "what are you trying to hide?" reaction caused by the generic "we're doing something...trust us" approach.

There really aren't any quick, easy solutions, sadly.

I read it all...BRILLIANT!

[argentyne]

you can block them, but they never stop. xD

[laady]

I didn't think there would be an easy way to get rid of them but sometimes I just get so annoyed. Almost every time I look down, there's another idiotic account -- fienlkd or oiwnvoi or bdoimcd -- sending me junk.

I think they need to devise a better system for ignoring these losers. What if one had the option of deciding to receive messages from friends and only friends. Or from friends and academy/guild/party members so that you run less of a risk of befriending these crooks?

Mind you, I understand how much work that would require, I'm an IT student and it takes me hours to figure out one small program, I don't for one second believe it's a piece of cake to throw stuff together. O_O

[Serric]

This has been a battle for some time... no matter what they seem to do, the spammers seem to scurry back like roaches. Outspark HAS been trying to come up with methods but can't share them for obvious reasons... if you were working on a plan to kill something, do you think you'd share it and risk that ifno getting back to the source of the problem?

I wish I could say "it'll all be over soon" but I just can't.. sorry. As for a manageable friend's list, that is something that has been "in the works" for some time.. I'll see if I can get any additional info on that one...

EDIT: Apparently you can't say ****roaches LOL

[apokolypse]

like roaches. when the servers die and the fiesta explodes. the spammer will still be there.

[autarchaurzel]

we dont really need that, what we need is to be able to see a list of people we blocked then we can either leave them there or unblock them or perm block them

[grummin]

This has been a battle for some time... no matter what they seem to do, the spammers seem to scurry back like roaches.

Because they are. :D

Reminds me of my favorite line from Death Wish 3, when Charles Bronson says "It's like killing roaches. You have to kill all of'em, otherwise what's the point?" ;)


Outspark HAS been trying to come up with methods but can't share them for obvious reasons...

Dealt with in previous post.


if you were working on a plan to kill something, do you think you'd share it and risk that ifno getting back to the source of the problem?

Depends what I'm trying to kill, and why. Depending on circumstance, I can see trying to keep the plans fully under wraps. Given other circumstances, I can just as clearly see sending the target an engraved announcement and a copy of the guest list for the event. Though that not only could just be me, it likely is.


I wish I could say "it'll all be over soon" but I just can't.. sorry.

No sweat. As my diatribe might have suggested, I've got at least a fair, basic grasp of the kinds of things one might be up against in this situation. And if I can think of that much, no telling what else might be involved and complicating the matter.


EDIT: Apparently you can't say ****roaches LOL

ROFL! I think there was a post somewhere around these forums about profanity filters, and their possible ups and downs... ;)

[laady]

Yeah, you can't say Sh*tzu either. :p

Thanks for the response though. :)

[grummin]

Yeah, you can't say Sh*tzu either. :p

Say what? <runs off and Googles "Shih Tzu">

Uhh...not quite spelled the way it sounds, see? ;)

Sorry, couldn't resist, had to be done. :)

[fireblaz10]

for a recent check(in fact it was two min ago)
spammers normally use keyboard chained username,like:asdf,asdfg,qwerty,asdfghjk,etc.
so if outspark can detect this and ban them from creating accounts,this should stop about 80%of the spams.

[laady]

Say what? <runs off and Googles "Shih Tzu">

Uhh...not quite spelled the way it sounds, see? ;)

Sorry, couldn't resist, had to be done. :)

Oh well. But hey, my point still stands. Misspelled or not, Sh*tzu isn't a swear, it's not even a word! :p

[Dragonfly77]

I have the solution!!


Open them to PVP!!!!! >;D

[Poisoned77]

The potentially easiest and simplest way to get rid of the spambots?

Believe it or not, illegal gold-selling sites are also affected by supply and demand, just like everything else. If no one used the sites, they would have no reason and would have no resources to exist.

Yes yes, we would all love to hardware ban them, but hardware bans are a mite harder to execute than your normal portal level or IP ban. On top of that, there are easy ways to mask, fib, and change a MAC address...

[petyus]

hi, i am asking if it is already a mechanism, or at least a method by what people from game can report somewhere the gold spammers, with screenshot included, or by improving the automatic spam blocker algorythm, because now spammers use 3-4 repetitive texts, algorythm could automatically log that character out, or even kill fiesta game(self closing it), in case that the same text appears in chat for more than 5-10 times
i hope this message helps, or i get some response

[pablin000]

This has been a battle for some time... no matter what they seem to do, the spammers seem to scurry back like roaches. Outspark HAS been trying to come up with methods but can't share them for obvious reasons... if you were working on a plan to kill something, do you think you'd share it and risk that ifno getting back to the source of the problem?

I wish I could say "it'll all be over soon" but I just can't.. sorry. As for a manageable friend's list, that is something that has been "in the works" for some time.. I'll see if I can get any additional info on that one...

EDIT: Apparently you can't say ****roaches LOL


if u guys been working on the new friends list, then u guys should hurry up, no offense, fiesta ish an aweosme game but i can give a 15 page list on bugs ways to make fiesta better and lots of glitches, plz try ur best to fix em up ASAP!

[ahtai]

Now the spamming bot is back to xyzabc name, there is a period they got real life looking name. I even hear people say they see one of those real life spamming bot later become a real life walking person.

Even block IP will not work because they can use dynamic IP address. Well unless the forbiden word is www. and whoever say it go to jail. But than I can see a friend talk to another friend saying I find something you are researching under www. than bang jailed.

Everything could back fire. I guess the best is like having friend list we have a unfriend list. If all of player put someone in unfriend list, it probably be a good indicator to look at that person and do some removal.