Fighter Suggestions

[GM_Dakkon]

I am making this thread to see what the community has to say about the balance of the class as a whole. What I am looking for is short constructive criticism. There are 3 areas in particular that I want to know about.

Solo: how does a Fighter do soloing through the game

Group: Does the Fighter perform well as a front line warrior (as tank or damage dealer)

PVP: how well does the Fighter hold up against other classes

I am not looking for essays on these points just a couple sentences on the classes capablility in these areas (good, bad, or average), weaknesses (can't close distance, not enough damage, ect), and suggested fix. This is not a nerf post so please don't treat it as such, and please keep your suggestions clean.

Regards,
Dakkon

[Tankcat]

Thank you for taking our suggestions on this topic. I'll try to be short and concise!

Solo: As a full endurance fighter, soloing is completely not worth it after level 26 or so. I'm not sure this is bad thing though, simply because full end fighters are great in parties.

Group: As a tank I have little to complain about. The only thing that comes in mind is the discrepency between magic defense and physical defense. The only reason I mention this is because fighters are really the only class that can hold aggro, and in order to take most bosses you need full end just to tank the physical attacks. In short, tanks have sucky magical defense yet are expected to tank magical enemies because of our skills and high health. Not sure if this is a problem though

PvP: Fighters are good in PvP, except against Clerics. But no one is good against Clerics.

[ramon246]

Solo: Whether you chose to go full end, full str or any other build, soloing after any 20+ lvl is not hard or impossible, but time draining and expensive, u either have to house after every/every other fight or use potions,not really a problem, it just isnt worth it.

Group: As long as the cleric in the group knows what they're supposed to do and do it well,fighters should have no complaints about partying, whether you be a damager or tank, the role in parties is very important,only problem i have is the lack of mag def since
people depend on/expect us to tank everything

PvP: Well i have'nt been involved in a guild war yet, so i cant really touch on it, expect an edit as i joined a guild yesterday.

All in all, they arn't really any problems with fighters, other than the fact that i believe that we learn an AoE attact to late in the game at lvl 43 i believe, could at
least have been lvl 2X, since thats when you also learn aoe taunt, those 2 should go hand in hand.

[laguiole]

Solo: for solo i think that for a full end figther is a little too long, cause you'are not doing a lot of damage so you have to rest afther each fitgh or take stone or potion that cost a lot !

Party: That was the most fun when you get in a party and you have to take all the mobs on you is the perfect way to play in the game, but when you have to attack a magic mobs ... you don't have enough magic def ....

Guild: I don't know i am searching for a guild rigth now but seem like you can't get one under lvl 30 .... i am lvl 24

[Agility]

Fighters need more hp and damage on weapons. Clerics can even take on a fighter 1v1 at same level =\

[AngellicDiety]

- Fighters have decent HP and everything against physical monsters.

- Monsters that deal magical damage - the fighter becomes inadequet.

- Against clerics, pure-end fighters have no chance. Damage dealers are the only ones able to kill the low-level clerics. Once a clerics HP exceeds 1000 its nearly impossible to kill with a fighter.

[MorpheusX]

- Solo: I'm a 1:1 END:SPR with axe, I balance damage dealing with medium defense. During solo I can kill mobs around my lvl +2 then rest. Taunt is very usefull during solo. I think fighter need better defense and more various weapons like glaive, spear, poleaxe etc :D.

- Party: I can hold agro from most mob around my level with decent support from cleric. Problem is when the party is overrun with mob and its difficult to hold agro anymore or to survive the onslaught. Again, defense is needed here or at least make a skill that allowed the fighter to regenerate HP, since that is the skill that makes a tank a tank in other MMORPG.

- PvP: never had one :D

[Gatherier]

Solo: Depending on the build, if a 'STR-Build' fighter were to take 3hits to takedown a particular monster, a 'END-Build' fighter will take about 5-8hits. On the other hand, 'END-Build' have a better chance in surviving, when facing multi monsters at single go. But either builds, soloing is time consuming and money consuming.(I would rather go cleric, cause they will have better hunt over the same time period, especially when we have a same amount of funding.)


Party: Fighter is suppose to be the shield of the party, but this shield is broken easily while facing magical-attack monsters, or when they are in a wrong party combo. Mages/Archers' attack damage, could easily out-threat fighter especially when it's on 'END-Build'(Unless they can afford to spam the taunt skills - most of them don't, cause most of them couldn't afford to-waste of SP,Stones and Potions). On the other hand, 'STR-Build' have a better threat-level on the monsters, but they can't handle the hits, so the cleric will have to do a mass healing, and this out-threat the fighter. Usually when this happened the cleric will break from healing us, and this will cause either the fighter or cleric went down sooner or later. In either cases, the whole party will collapse. So I will say, unless fighters are enchanced, if not they can't really play any role in a party(a cleric with 1k hp could outshine fighter as tanker due to infinite HP; a mage/archer out damage/out-threat them easily, which make the fighters unable to keep the aggross to them, so they can't fufill the role of a tanker).


PvP: This is base on the 1 vs 1 scenario and same level only.
Mages - if we are able to close in to stunt them, they are goner due to their weak defence. If they were to use the hit-and-run tactics, we wouldn't last long against them.

Archers - Is the same as the a/m outcome.

Clerics - If you are on a 'END-Build', you will have a 'LONG' battle against them, and the outcome: 90% of the time the cleric will win.

Fighter - Depends on how well you execute your combos. But a 'STR-Build' shine over the 'END-Build' 90% of the time in a PVP.

[Jlyons]

Solo: Prior to level 20, they seem to be just fine. Decent damage, good defense, and all-around capable of getting the job done. After about level 20 though (I started noticing it around level 24, when my warrior started grinding at Burning Hill), their ability to solo cost-effectively plummets unless they can produce massive amounts of potions for themselves. To put it bluntly, my mage, currently level 21 and running with no end boosts whatsoever, makes about 1 silver (give or take a few hundred copper) even when using hp/sp stones, before production skills are used, every time I grind. My warrior barely makes any cash after production skills are used. Then again, the comparison might be a bit unfair, as my mage hasn't reached Burning Hill yet. I'll revisit this once my mage gets there.

Group: It's almost a necessity once you reach Burning Hill. However, once in a decent group, a good warrior will shine. I do think that full end warriors need some small tweaking though, as a low-end (as in, if you were looking at the Gold Hill KQ, cut the level spread in half and look at the bottom half of that spread) full-endurance warrior can tank KQ bosses just because they have a lot of HP and a good amount of defense. Heck, I've only spent 3/7ths of my points on endurance, and my warrior can tank the final boss on Gold Hill at level 26, albeit with a shield and vitality scroll. That doesn't seem right to me. Then again, I'm not sure how one would go about balancing that out.

PVP: I've yet to partake in PvP, so I can't comment on warriors in that element.

[KonataIzumi]

MY own views and opinions ONLY.
Without comparing builds, only according to growth stats:
Solo: Pretty good up to 25 or so where the pace begins to slow down, not to mention being expensive.

Group: Flawless when in a team. But could use more party oriented skills.

PVP: I'm not a PvP person so I'm not saying anything about this.


Overall:
Fighters have too big of a damage for a tanker. Thats a little unbalanced but it's actually good for fighters who enjoy soloing. They have decent END growth, which is of course nothing more a tanker can ask for.
Fighters have no bad points/weaknesses apart from massive damage as a tanker.

[Kholai]

Note: More than other classes, the fighter is highly dependent on their stats to determine whether they are effective in any role. No Endurance builds in particular depend heavily on parties later on, but bring them little.

Solo:

Good - High HP and reasonable damage makes them able to take on highly-damaging enemies, as do their debuff abilities.
Bad - Because the fighter has no means of healing or SP conservation, they chug potions of both kinds like an addict unless they're in a group with a cleric.
Ugly - Many of the fighters abilities serve to let them attract monsters. This is the opposite of what you'd want to do when soloing.

Party:

Good - The second-most vital character, when fighters do their jobs right, they are invaluable at stopping enemies from interfering with the rest of the party.
Bad - The fighter is hugely build dependent. A fighter without endurance can't tank, and tanking is all the fighter brings to the party.
Ugly - Fighters, unlike any other class, don't group well with their own kind. Their lack of utility beyond tanking relegates extra fighters to the comparatively unimportant "secondary damage" role.

PvP:

Good - Stun, massive HP and decent damage set the fighter up well for PvP.
Bad - Taunt skills don't really work against sentients, nor do they deal enough damage between stuns to bring down a cleric.
Ugly - Their lack of range leaves them as vulnerable as clerics against Mages and Archers, without the ability to heal.

[Forbin]

Solo: As many have said, the main issue with soloing for a warrior boils down to two things: Downtime and/or blowing potions.

The Fix: A utility skill: Bandage wounds
Instantly recovers 75% of the warrior's hit points.
Costs 10 SP.
Has 2-3 minute cool down, lowers to 1-2 minute with 5 empowers.

This will allow for easier soloing without removing the obvious need for a healer in high-end group situations/harder encounters.



Party: Again, the biggest problem has been voiced by many. Magic Defense is a problem. There doesn't seem to be an abundance of magical mobs in the game, until the high-end, and even then they are fairly rare.

The Fix: A "shout" ability: Spiritual Battlecry
Works as a short-duration group buff, and grants the party a massive boost to magical defense for a short time. Just long enough to defeat 1-2 mobs in most cases.

Grants the party +X (50? 100?) magical defense.
Costs 50? 100? SP.
2 minute cool down timer.

Alternative to magical defense problem:
An alternative is simply to give Archers a very high magical defense innately. High enough to offset their lower HP total even, so that they become a better tank for magical mobs. I don't believe this harms the warrior's grouping potential, because of the relative rarity of magical mobs. Rather, it brings another facet to the archer, making it more viable to choose an archer over a 2nd or 3rd mage in most situations. (The fact that mob AI and pathing is easy to manipulate makes archers nowhere near as versatile as they should be in regard to "pulling" mobs)


PvP: Zero knowledge or experience in this facet of the game.

[GM_Dakkon]

Great posts so far guys getting alot of good info keep em coming.

Dakkon

[LordFrederick]

A few thoughts on how well fighters perform. I suggest both ways to improve and ways to nerf fighters in the respective categories. This doesn't mean i THINK they should be improved, or THINK they should be nerfed, but rather are just ways to do so if that had to be done. I support changes that are not drastic, and serve to empower or weaken a class slowly.

Solo:
This is both build and gear based. I played a SPR fighter up to level 40 soloing for long periods of time. There are no problems here, as fighters possess a good deal of "defensive" attacks (dem. hit, bone slicer, immobilize) that reduce the damage dealt to the fighter. With sufficient DPS, i would say fighters can plow through levels very quickly relative to, for example, a solo cleric.

However, fighters are expensive to solo with in a SPR build. The constant need to replenish stones will add up. It is possible, however, to keep yourself afloat with intelligent management of where you choose to grind.

On a full END/ swordshield fighter, soloing loses its value into the 30s. the 1HS isnt as weak as many think, however, the kill rate is still not quick enough to make soloing worth it over CP partying.

Suggestions to make Soloing easier:
Reduce stone costs.
Give fighters an innate, natural regeneration skill that recovers HP slowly over time.

Suggestions to make soloing harder:
Raise the party exp bonuses to make soloing even less valuable.
Raise stone costs -_- (please don't)
Nerf 2 handed weapon stats.

My Suggestions: Leave as is, SPR 2H/Axe fighters can solo well enough and 1H ENDs are meant to be partied. Prehaps lower stone costs SLIGHTLY. I personally like the fact that necessities are expensive in this game, as it makes money actually valuable and creates an economy. Some MMORPGs make money so simple to get that it means absolutely nothing. I strongly push for the passive regen idea, which i elaborate on in the next part.


Party:

Fighters are absolutely vital to parties. Most KQs (up to robo, i haven't done any of the 45+ KQs) can make it through not having any mages, or not having any archers (archers by far the least essential). Having no fighters, or no clerics dramatically increases the failure rate of parties to a near certainty, with only several exceptions, for example a powerful cleric managing to tank, or extreme kiting tactics.

The 1H END fighter clearly is the most useful here, though 2H/Axe can still step up in a pinch. An issue with fighters, though, is their complete and absolute reliance on clerics. I can see why a reliance on clerics is the aim of the game, but I personally think a slight bit of clerical independance would open up OTHER party options.

Suggestions to improve Fighters in groups:
Give Fighters, Archers, or Mages a party buff. This would give Fighters a larger array of characters to party with. Mages could have a buff that increases MDef, Archers a buff that increases the aim of a fighter, or fighters could have a warcry that increases the damage of party members.
Allow fighters some form of natural regeneration. Nothing near the rate of a Recover spell from clerics, but like 5hp/sec passively, even when not mushroomed, over a long period of time. Again, very minor, bound to not impact gameplay at all, but a step in the direction of not being quite as reliant on clerics.

Suggestions to Nerf Fighters in groups:
Lower the def boost of the shields. This would have more people tend toward the 2 handed builds.

My suggestions:
The nerf is probably not in order. I would like to see some of the improvements made, for example the passive regeneration which i think would make a good deal of sense on the fighter. It is unlikely to bring sweeping changes, as 5 hp/ sec will not even come close to saving your life in a pinch, but will save cash on stoning costs over time, and slowly heals you even while you are travelling.


PvP:

I use an Axe in PvP, and i really feel that's the only option. Damage over time doesnt count for anything, so the faster attack rates of the 1HS and 2HS are out the window. The fighter skill bursts are powerful and quick when used in succession, and they are efficient killers at melee range. This traslates to them being effective cleric killers, but ineffective at killing intelligent mages.

I feel this is really the way it should be. Theres no magical buff that should happen to make mages ineffective against fighters, it should just stay that mages need something like archers to take them out.

Suggestions to Improve fighters at PvP:
Raise 2HS damage, Raise Axe damage. Both very direct ways to improve.
Grant a skill that increases fighter travel speed over a short span of time.

Suggestions to nerf fighters at PvP:
Lower the overall damage that is done to other players (Something similar to Warcraft III, where Heroes only take 75% damage from other heroes).

My Suggestions:
Keep it as is for now, i don't see a need for change in PvP.

[Shade1234]

GM Dakkon i would like to post an a 4 Fiesta i need hep what would you shgest

[Revival]

I am making this thread to see what the community has to say about the balance of the class as a whole. What I am looking for is short constructive criticism. There are 3 areas in particular that I want to know about.

Solo: how does a Fighter do soloing through the game

Group: Does the Fighter perform well as a front line warrior (as tank or damage dealer)

PVP: how well does the Fighter hold up against other classes

I am not looking for essays on these points just a couple sentences on the classes capablility in these areas (good, bad, or average), weaknesses (can't close distance, not enough damage, ect), and suggested fix. This is not a nerf post so please don't treat it as such, and please keep your suggestions clean.

Regards,
Dakkon

Soloing : probably not very practical as many mentioned due to downtime / stone costs as compared to a cleric who can solo perfectly fine. Yet at higher levels, with a well trained license and particular training spots, you still can do it pretty well. But personally, I feel its way more effective to solo with sword/shield fighter than a 2hander basically because they can take down more mobs before having to rest. At 50s, the dmg difference aint too big between 1h/2h fighters and with Toughness, cooldown 6secs? if my memory serves me well, they can solo much better than 2handers.

Party : well basically they do well as tanks, holding aggro as long as the fighter knows what he is doing but after the sudden boost in mages at.. 47? or 49? it becomes harder. Mages can quite effectively pull the aggro off the fighter even when the monster has been taunted in the beginning and even after taunting the mobs after mages pull the aggro, it does not work sometimes. reasons? other than possiblities of lagging, I feel thats because sneering kick ends at level 2, probably with high level sneering kicks fighters will be able to more effectively hold aggro.
KQ Party : done KQs all the way up to mini dragon, just some personal thoughts here. Same as before, sneering kick needs level up because at bosses like mini dragon, once it casts fear on you, your aggro basically drops to 0? and it goes for the next highest dmg dealer/healer. This sounds normal but the problem is when the sub tank starts to sneer and mock, even then, he/she cant get the aggro, probably after 6+ mock/sneer only then he/she MAY be able to pull the aggro. People might argue that mages/archers should stop hitting that much, but hey clerics heal also stacks aggro on the boss so yeah if main tank dies, it much harder to win the KQ so I personally think that sneering kick definately needs higher upgrades like level 3-5 at least.

PVP : I guess it all comes down to our stuns. (Assuming the levels are on par)
Mages/Archers - I pretty much wipe out mages/archers like 4lvls higher than me as long as I am able to manage a single stun on them, wells chasing is tough but its pretty do-able.
Fighters vs Fighters, also believe it boils pretty much to the stuns, but this time round its timing. 1-2 stuns that happens to set in just before your opponent manage to cast his stun will probably earn u the win.
Fighters vs Clerics - Clerics are overall gay PVPers, you pretty much can't kill them when they are in their 50s and wells, neither can they kill you but if its an endurance match, they definately outlast any fighter. Clerics are basically gay PVPers against all classes, I class them as the BEST PVP Class in Fiesta because of their uber high defense and self heal, immunity, buff and everything, its almost impossible for any class to beat a cleric 1v1.

[Kenosha]

Soloing: I spend the majority of my time doing this (currently @32). Yes there is downtime, but I think it's fine if you know/find the particular mob to profit from. (Atm killing 3-4 Bats/Spiders before needing to rest.) I'm using a combo of GA and stun since I feel get greater returns than shield+sword. This forces me to use a lot of SP since I'm spamming skills, though luckily the stones are cheaper.

Group: Mainly join for quests and if a Cleric friend invites me. I get way better money returns solo than in a group. I've only tanked Mara & Marlone (both normal & KQ) and ZK. I've held aggro well except briefly losing it towards the end of fights from being stunned (ie Marlone).

PvP: Not intending to participate if the current system is in place, not worth the time.

For magical creatures I always use a m.def scroll because otherwise it's a waste of HP pots/stones.

[baucus]

solo: i agree that solo leveling can be very exspensive, so an ability to heal yourself would be really useful, even if you can only use it out of combat, since the house takes way too long to wait for every fight

Group: tanking works fine so far in the kq's, but i think if a fighter puts his stats in Strength, it should be mroe noticable, and more damage should be added than just xtra every 5 stats. This way, pure strength fighters wont just be a burden on the group, when a mage would hav been more useful

PVP: I think the fighters lack of ranged abilities is a huge problem in the pvp system, and since the clerics hav the ability to become impervious, at least they can close distance without dying. I suggest a fighter ability that allows the fighter to close down space fast between him and his opponent, so that its a fair fight with both hitting for the same ammount of time. A fighter against a mage starting back a distance has no chance, since the mage takes out a chunk of his hp even before he gets to him, so some sort of sprint or leap or charge ability would not only make pvp more fair, but be useful while soloing also.

[icykidz]

:O that was long :|

[yourmahder]

soloing for fighter is OK... and i feel there is a discrepancy between the more popular 1:1 str:end build, i guess a good fighter has to have spr for some magic defense. that said, the fighter's hp will be lower than normal, which parties tend to wonder why...damage wise, fighters can hold their own even if they dont add str the entire game=P really. so people. please banish the notion that full end builds are good...

parties tend to assume that fighters are the "shields" of the party. this is NOT TRUE. yes, we take most of the damage, but not ALL. party-wise, fighters and clerics seem to have an advantage. however, if everyone expects a fighter to hold his own in a KQ (without a cleric as some noob party demanded me to), i feel that the fighter has been completely overrated. a 1str:1end:1spr build (which i use), will naturally have less health and get hit more.

yes, you may say my build SUCKS, and i get hit more damage. wait till pvp. fighters can solo A LOT in pvp. mages now do less than normal damage to you. period.

[FullmetalX]

Solo: As a solo i think a warrior is fantastic as long he has enough stones and hp tiers when you go rampaging on your own, you can get exp relativley easily, and you dont have to worry about sharing with others, the only problem is you have to spend alot of money on healing items, and when you run out your probably going to die.........(note its even more expensive for all warriors that are pure STR with no END)

Group: Warriors definately do the best dmg and make the best tanks when taking on larger bosses

Pvp: Fighters can do relatively well when PvP'ing, they ussually can last longer with their better DEF and can do good damage with their STR.

summary: if your broke your going to be a sucky warrior.........

[MyYing]

I'll try not to make an essay as you stated earlier lol.

Solo: I solo'd till lvl 28 in a mob of Megatons (only because im full str and they're drops supported my pot addiction ^^ ) but as for llving with a full str build the kills were fast.

Party: Party'ing I almost allways ended up as the tank ftw! Because of my dmg as for the original tank ended up being support.

PvP: havent tried it yet but it would seem that clerics are over powered.

My suggestions would be simple skills to help the warrior maintain importance because at my lvl of 41 its almost mandatory that i pt a cleric and that's not because of my build that goes for any warrior period we are a dependant class yet all other classes depend on us and our skills. Which makes solo'n useless ( and I like to solo ).

Skills to help us solo: A defense mode would be nice. Where your defense and atk speed increase, and your sp slowly decreases ( I'd say 1sp per second) as you are in this mode. This would help the all End fighter buy giving a str boost w/o lowering his/her def like that vit skill does, and would help the all Str fighter by boosting his/her def and not diminishing what little def they have like the vit skill does in turn giving some balance between the 2.
Also making the ammount of sp stones we can carry the same as the ammount of hp stones we can carry, cuz lets face it we become more like mages wih sword in ltr lvls i mean our skills that are supposed to help us protect jus take toooooo much sp.

Frankly i beleive that the hp/sp buff is more suited for a fighter but thats just my opinion.Another thing would be taunt skill for an all END fighter this would help tremendously, make the CD time on taunt a mere 5 secs because in 20secs a mob can easily steer away from the fighter and kill the cleric...cleric dies and the fighter dies due to CD times on pots (which i find ridiculous) now the whole pt is dead...did you notice how dependant the pt was on the cleric(yet the cleric depended on the taunts of the fighter).

Another thing would be to lower the sp consumtion of fighter skills because like I stated before I almost fill like a little mage with a sword and maybe adding the group buff that I've seen stated in here that increases Magic Def and DMG to the pt making the fighter more valuable in a group setting.

Also I saw a post on this thread about having a skill that closes the gap in distance between a foe. Myabe a Dash skill and Flashstep skill. Dash- being a concussive and or damaging charge toward a foe while Flashstep is a dash away from the foe( I'd dash for fighters and Flash step for mages and Archers)

Alot can be altered if the CD times were reasonable and sp consumption werent so much i can see fighters spending money on pots but sp =/ that the one thing a fighter is supposed to almost never run out of. Oh well I could go on but i really wasnt trying to write as much as i did so sorry I'll stop now lol.

[MyYing]

Sorry just wanted to add in this tidbit. Might want to think about having the AoE Devastate for lvl 30 because when I saw that my AoE at 20 was just somthing to get hit more I went " ok now I get to spend more money on pots....whoopee -.- ". And the Dmg AoE can really be used at lvl 30, if not lvl 30 at least lvl 35 but not at lvl 43 I mean we're "supposed" to be the tanks lool ok I'm done now ^^

[Tgellia]

Hi I'm new here and I need info for this game

[chodien]

I think dealing with magical monster type is mage job.

[MyYing]

I think dealing with magical monster type is mage job.
I agree with you but one must remember people expect warriors to tank all mobs regardless of magical or physical dmg

[AngellicDiety]

In my opinion Fighters should deal more damage (physical.) It would make up for the major unbalance against clerics. Furthermore it would make fighters actually useful to take in parties. The only use for a fighter is a tank. Aside from that nobody ever wants them leaving us to solo - which is pretty hard given we cant even get close to non-magical creatures before they blast us...

Since fighters have to get close it means they are the ones likely recieving damage, thus it should seem fair that since they have no healing capabilities they should be given more damage to deal.

[MisterNiceGuy]

In my opinion Fighters should deal more damage (physical.) It would make up for the major unbalance against clerics. Furthermore it would make fighters actually useful to take in parties. The only use for a fighter is a tank. Aside from that nobody ever wants them leaving us to solo - which is pretty hard given we cant even get close to non-magical creatures before they blast us...

Since fighters have to get close it means they are the ones likely recieving damage, thus it should seem fair that since they have no healing capabilities they should be given more damage to deal.

yea thats true, its hard for me to find a party, seems like no one ever wants fighters around unless they are spec for tank, it sucks soloing too when potions cost a fortune, leveling has made me go broke :\

[MyYing]

In my opinion Fighters should deal more damage (physical.) It would make up for the major unbalance against clerics. Furthermore it would make fighters actually useful to take in parties. The only use for a fighter is a tank. Aside from that nobody ever wants them leaving us to solo - which is pretty hard given we cant even get close to non-magical creatures before they blast us...

Since fighters have to get close it means they are the ones likely recieving damage, thus it should seem fair that since they have no healing capabilities they should be given more damage to deal.

yea we deem pretty useless at higher lvls...ive seen pt's with archers clerics and a mage as the tank (cuz of the dps ) ftw man =/

[Wayne47]

For solo fighter, i think they consume too much stones and they cannot make much profit from it.

For group fighter, i guess only shield fighter can tank, fighter still needs to use SP stones eventhough they are only tanking.

For PVP, no comments, PVP fighter are good.

After all, for grinding, I think fighter needs more SP stones rather than so little, they uses alot and they would have to travel very far to restone. It is sort of irritating, usually lost the mood to travel back and continue to grind.

Over all, at lv 50+, a normal fighter would need to use 1 sp stone after they use all their skills.

[yangderox]

Genernally... i feel that fighters do little damage and loook at lvl 50 fighter weapons....compare them with cleric mace.... its unbalance...

[AriesMehjor]

Now...I could have sworn this game was about all of the character classes not just Clerics, but it sure as hell doesn't seem that way. They get all the buff skills, all of the heal skills, the most generous stat raise at every level, and for cryin out loud, they can become invincible. 8 seconds, sure, but really 8 seconds is all you really need to make a point sometimes in battle.

Solo battles with fighters is like waiting for grass to grow. Level 1-20 not so bad, after 20, like grass and molasses. We cant heal ourselves until we reach an unimaginable level. Cant defend ourselves against magic without a cleric, and Black mages deal more damage. Whats the use of us. We can debuff enemies which helps out alot in certain battles, but they only last so long. I stopped buying stones after level 18 cause it was just really rediculous to pay that much for that kind of thing. Our SP gets drained like water in most solo battles, so that takes away from more of our resources. And like mentioned before, If you can take it, you cant dish it, and if you can dish it, you cant take it. That sucks really.

The true fighter should be able to Deal damage nicely while taking massive physical damage. But the other build, for STR, this is a totally different job trying to be fit into one class. I call it the Dark Knight. The fighter that looks out only for him/herself and tanks for no-one. In order for you to make a fighter do that, it'd have to be a totally different class.
Try this, imagine a warrior, with the highest hp of all the classes, but low def, good magic def, but higher SP than the standard Warrior,but the highest physical attack in the game, while having moves that cut hp to deal damage, while also having a move to drain hp away from enemies. And able to cast weak magic attacks for range. Would be skilled in using big weapons, like big sword or somthing else. Sounds fun huh?

Partying for me is horrible because everyone expects me to tank, cant tank because I have high attack so I can solo well.

PVPs are great, because I can just smash someone a few times and its lights out. Bad because, well...why should clerics be so damn invincible.

OMG I was just reading this and had a great idea about a move that could close up space between fighters and Magic, or Archer users.

Bumrush! It just came to me outta nowhere! A move that would make the fighter charge over a small distance really fast and stun the enemy for a brief moment. The cool down time should be around the same as the standard stun move. But it really shouldn't be offered until high 20s or lvl 30.

I also like the idea of a move that could be used by warriors to raise def and str, we shouldn't have to rely on Clerics for everything.

And vampire move gets learned at way too high a level for it to be of any use to us.

Different build....sounds like a different class in itself to me.
Can deal big physical damage, but hates to be hit with its own medicine.
Yep, thats what I call a shadow warrior.

[Falcomist]

I agree with Wayne for the fact we use our Sp stones WAY TOO MUCH to spam skill.

Im a End/Crit build and Im using SP stones consistently >.<.

Then again if u license a weapon ull do WAY more dmg ^^.

[swordman7088]

Yeah,Yeah,HoHo

[mady12]

fighters better but not best.maybe 2nd place in strong meter lol.

[mady12]

btw plz ad to me reputation lol ive been nice and adin to random ppl lol.

[mady12]

lol and ya clerics are mains in pvps so if u see one in ur rival guild be smart and dont fight unless u r a cleric lol.

[Tylur]

To be honest, it seems like clerics are the tankers. Almost as strong as a fighter, yet they can heal themselves free of charge. x_x;

We just get more HP and look cooler. xD

[kelose]

soloing - I think fighters are fine with soloing, depending on if your end or strength. The only thing i recommend is better magic defense, magic attacks can kill so quickly and its a little troubling.

pvp - with mages and archers hitting us from a distance is a problem. If i could i'd add a charging or speed enhancing skill for fighters because range will hurt us. also, a bit more strength and health will be better, because we dont have too much of a health difference to me.

group - The 2h sword and axe are more damage dealers than tanking against a strong monster, 1h swords are made for it because of the ability to hold a shield. 1h swords though have a very low damage amount so i wold add on to damage. the level 50 1hsword has less attack than the level 20 axe, and thats not very good at all...

[lunardemise]

This is a great topic! it really helps! here is my input!

Solo: like with every one elses ive read i agree that it is very hard to lvl solo after lvl 24/5 so it would behoove you to either find some VERY rich friends who are willing to support your expensive hobby or just go to part 2 (partying)

Partying: This is where its at. find a lvl 45 and a couple lvl 30s to team up with in Collapsed prision and make sure they have a cleric with res, if you got that and 5 ppl you get a 60% ATK and DEF bonus with thier buffs to phys and mag respectively. and in Collapsed Prision i was receiving about 150+ exp with 5 people attacking 1 mob not to mention it only took about an hour and a half to 2 hours to lvl at around lvl 26-28.
now if you are lucky and you find someone who is willing to party at Uruga you are in luck cause a 5 man party will net you around 200 exp per mob and thats right outside town so you arent far from a safezone or a restone store. This is just from my experience of training with my guildmaster who also helped me get to lv 30 so many thanks to him.

PVP: im NOT a big fan of pvp. but judging from my experiences with it im guessing that an Axe is not the best weapon to use simply cause of its slow attack rate. if you are going to be PVPing alot i suggest 2hsword or 1hsword. simply for speed of attack. if you use 1hsword you also get def benefits of a shield.

hope this helped! i know I will never train solo again! XD

[MyYing]

Sorry but you strayed a lil to FAR off topic...this is a topic as to how the game MOD's can fix the fighter char as a whole...(pls dont take offense)

[UrieHinrick]

In my experiance...

Solo: Fighter uses way to much SP and loses too much HP, even with buff scrolls, after about level 25 to build up leveling steam and thus it is rather impractical to try and level without a Cleric... A fighter can take down hard single physical hitting monsters but, unlike a Cleric, they can falter under tons of monsters... especially once the sp is drained away.

Leveling can be done, it just takes a really long time depending on ones flow of HP/SP stones and pots. (KQs and quests also affect leveling)

Side Note: I have a Cleric friend who can solo many mobs better than I can and we are both around the same level. (He does have more endurance but still good atk power) In this area, a Cleric seems like the better solo fighter... which strikes me as odd. :confused:

Group: As far as I have seen, Tanks work well when in combo with a cleric while damage fighters provide good cover and backup. (I think this might crumble without the cleric backup though) My fighter still burns through SP pots but, with a cleric, at least I don't have to worry about my HP.


Final Note: Fighters seem too dependant on clerics and should not leave home without one... (Or just become a cleric? :confused:)

Maybe things change at lev 40? Or with different builds...

[spl2rge]

hi GM_Dakkon i think not only fighter but other classes should be able to have a skill that boosts up defence a bit like you have with strength increase because when i do a kq i have to tank sometimes although i get healed would be nice to have that lil extra defence to lower the damage on my player it would be a great help
many thanks
_______________________
Fighter: Trydus lvl 28-Fiesta citizen
Cleric: Greiver lvl 11-apprentice enhancer

[thegamex]

Fighter skills just take up too much SP and their stones are limited. It affects all in a way

[joeyx21567890]

how can you make a charter

[joeyx21567890]

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[notalther]

i think my biggest problem with my fighter is running out of sp. it can be really costly in sp stones to try to keep down the costs on hp stones :P and to add to it, you cant really carry enough sp stones, so you either have to buy pots, make them, rest A LOT, or go to town often. none of which i want to do.
with my cleric, i can stay on the field for 6+ hours at a time before i have to restock stones, this just is not possible with a fighter.

[AngellicDiety]

i think my biggest problem with my fighter is running out of sp. it can be really costly in sp stones to try to keep down the costs on hp stones :P and to add to it, you cant really carry enough sp stones, so you either have to buy pots, make them, rest A LOT, or go to town often. none of which i want to do.
with my cleric, i can stay on the field for 6+ hours at a time before i have to restock stones, this just is not possible with a fighter.


Like I've said before give fighters a strength boost. a 50% or 25% boost, or even a 10% boost would be better. The more damage we deal the less we have to spam skills, thus the less SP used the more reserves we have.

All GM's need to do is increase a fighters strength and our problems should be solved.

[Falcomist]

Improvments on fighters in IMO:

- More physical dmg lol
- More Sp stones

[Ct2k6]

Improvments on fighters in IMO:

- More physical dmg lol
- More Sp stones


Not to sure considering the fact I didn't read through EVERYYYYYYYYY PAGE.
Though if noone noticed... my biggest problem would be that while Clerics alternative weapon is a hammer, a fighters 2h sword and axe don't even come near to being as useful as the hammer is.
I'm not sure if anyone has ever noticed but even half the time the Fighter, which is meant to be great in close combat, isn't all that good for anything other then tanking. (IE, even a Cleric would most likely do more damage, Fighters only have the skills to back us up)

Solo: Let's not even get into this, Every class is horrible solo after level 30ish, maybe even less (with the exception of Clerics, being they can solo anything)

Parties: Honestly though, all I've read so far was "Fighters are great in parties" etc etc (well, to the extent..) which trust me, is true. Ask yourself though, what class in a party isn't good?
I've had mages and archers tank as a cleric in Uruga, obviously they can't do it as well as a fighter, but that isn't the point.

PvP: Meh, Every class in this department has it's on pros and cons. The only opponent I've had actual trouble killing (at the same level as myself) would be a Cleric.

Solutions (My opinion): The stats isn't the problem with a fighter I think, I'd say the problem is generally just underpowered equipment. A fighter (you would assume) would be great in fights, But when he's being out damaged by Archers and Mages (lets not forget that a full end build is horrible solo after lvl 30, rather.... just a waste of money and time more so.) and still takes a rather big load of damage, I dunno, I don't think it's the stats really, I think it's the gear.


Gosh was this ever a long thingy to post =X
Edit: Oh... long story short, I agree with Falc, Fighters damage should be increased somewhat, SP stones would be nice, reduce about 5-10 hp stones and make them sp stones, No fighter will really tank 30 hp stones worth without any sp stones. (So basically I have an extra 30 hp stones I never end up using, which could be very useful if removed and added into sp stones instead.

[Falcomist]

Not to sure considering the fact I didn't read through EVERYYYYYYYYY PAGE.
Though if noone noticed... my biggest problem would be that while Clerics alternative weapon is a hammer, a fighters 2h sword and axe don't even come near to being as useful as the hammer is.
I'm not sure if anyone has ever noticed but even half the time the Fighter, which is meant to be great in close combat, isn't all that good for anything other then tanking. (IE, even a Cleric would most likely do more damage, Fighters only have the skills to back us up)

Solo: Let's not even get into this, Every class is horrible solo after level 30ish, maybe even less (with the exception of Clerics, being they can solo anything)

Parties: Honestly though, all I've read so far was "Fighters are great in parties" etc etc (well, to the extent..) which trust me, is true. Ask yourself though, what class in a party isn't good?
I've had mages and archers tank as a cleric in Uruga, obviously they can't do it as well as a fighter, but that isn't the point.

PvP: Meh, Every class in this department has it's on pros and cons. The only opponent I've had actual trouble killing (at the same level as myself) would be a Cleric.

Solutions (My opinion): The stats isn't the problem with a fighter I think, I'd say the problem is generally just underpowered equipment. A fighter (you would assume) would be great in fights, But when he's being out damaged by Archers and Mages (lets not forget that a full end build is horrible solo after lvl 30, rather.... just a waste of money and time more so.) and still takes a rather big load of damage, I dunno, I don't think it's the stats really, I think it's the gear.


Gosh was this ever a long thingy to post =X
Edit: Oh... long story short, I agree with Falc, Fighters damage should be increased somewhat, SP stones would be nice, reduce about 5-10 hp stones and make them sp stones, No fighter will really tank 30 hp stones worth without any sp stones. (So basically I have an extra 30 hp stones I never end up using, which could be very useful if removed and added into sp stones instead.


Hi Cassius ^^ haha yea tanking basically the only thing we can do...

I was lvling with Rukia and OMFG she tanked at least 15 blue trumpy ... half of the WHOLE field i was amazed LOL. Anyways the improvements are always gonna be the same but I just hoped its gonna change... Seeing a cleric do more dmg then me makes me depressed and say why am I training a Fighter lol.

[notalther]

Like I've said before give fighters a strength boost. a 50% or 25% boost, or even a 10% boost would be better. The more damage we deal the less we have to spam skills, thus the less SP used the more reserves we have.

All GM's need to do is increase a fighters strength and our problems should be solved.

i dont need a str boost, id be quite content if the sp cost of skills was just lowered a bit. that's really my only problem with the fighter class.
if you want to do a lot of damage, be a mage. we arent meant to do mass amounts of damage.

[Ct2k6]

i dont need a str boost, id be quite content if the sp cost of skills was just lowered a bit. that's really my only problem with the fighter class.
if you want to do a lot of damage, be a mage. we arent meant to do mass amounts of damage.

I agree, to an extent, Yes we're not MEANT to do large amounts of damage, But I also don't see the logic in us hitting weaker then any other class.

Clerics not only out damage us, but can carry a hammer with a shield, which is basically a stronger version of the 2h sword, and a given shield. (And I've seen a SPR built fighter hit less crits then a END built cleric, is that even normal? -_-)
Mages I can understand why their magic would out damage us, it's only logic.
Though Archers I'm at a loss with as well. Poison and Bleeding skills make the archers unique, don't get me wrong I love having an archer in a party with me, But it doesn't make sense to me when an Archer, a tad under leveled to a fighter, is out damaging him.

Everyones opinion is different, obviously. Though I still don't like the idea of Fighters, a class meant for close combat, is being out damaged so easily.

[notalther]

I agree, to an extent, Yes we're not MEANT to do large amounts of damage, But I also don't see the logic in us hitting weaker then any other class.

Clerics not only out damage us, but can carry a hammer with a shield, which is basically a stronger version of the 2h sword, and a given shield. (And I've seen a SPR built fighter hit less crits then a END built cleric, is that even normal? -_-)
Mages I can understand why their magic would out damage us, it's only logic.
Though Archers I'm at a loss with as well. Poison and Bleeding skills make the archers unique, don't get me wrong I love having an archer in a party with me, But it doesn't make sense to me when an Archer, a tad under leveled to a fighter, is out damaging him.

Everyones opinion is different, obviously. Though I still don't like the idea of Fighters, a class meant for close combat, is being out damaged so easily.


i will agree that clerics shouldn't be able to deal more damage than us. that is a bit ridiculous.

[yangderox]

exactly... and that clerics got special skills such as heal invincible etc etc....

[AngellicDiety]

i will agree that clerics shouldn't be able to deal more damage than us. that is a bit ridiculous.

Again when you say that you seem to fail to realize that had a fighter had a strength boost in the beginning it would solve this problem. Yet, you argued contrary to the point by stating you dont need one...

This is not a "plz nerf cleric" thread, its a "What can be done to fighters to make them better at what they do" thread.

Q.E.D

[abhordisdain]

I didn't read the novel's worth of replies here so forgive me if this has been said...one way to make fighter up to par (with cleric at least) is give them a "leech" attack for longer survivability. Clerics can last without a potion for as long as their hp and sp last, but fighter/archer/mage last until the hp is gone then that's it, sure this matters less in a group but a lot of us, myself included, like to solo a lot. I know this seems like it would make clerics less usable, but I'm not saying give fighters a 100% of dmg given = life gained attack, make it like 25% or something, it wont keep you alive forever, but it will keep the potion stack from hitting 0 every time we go solo. Everything needs a drawback, wether it's recharge time, sp cost or whatever. That's just my opinion, I have over a decade of mmorpg experience, but less than a month of this, so not sure if it would fit in with the game all that well, hopefully it does. :D

[AngellicDiety]

I didn't read the novel's worth of replies here so forgive me if this has been said...one way to make fighter up to par (with cleric at least) is give them a "leech" attack for longer survivability. Clerics can last without a potion for as long as their hp and sp last, but fighter/archer/mage last until the hp is gone then that's it, sure this matters less in a group but a lot of us, myself included, like to solo a lot. I know this seems like it would make clerics less usable, but I'm not saying give fighters a 100% of dmg given = life gained attack, make it like 25% or something, it wont keep you alive forever, but it will keep the potion stack from hitting 0 every time we go solo. Everything needs a drawback, wether it's recharge time, sp cost or whatever. That's just my opinion, I have over a decade of mmorpg experience, but less than a month of this, so not sure if it would fit in with the game all that well, hopefully it does. :D

Unfortunately that already happpens, except it happens at level 50ish when you learn Vampiric Strike... Like I said the real solution is to give the fighter a small boost in strength.

[alsoknownastk]

you know im a new comer to fiesta and maybe its just me but i dont agree with anything you guys posted, i have a lvl 18 fighter right now and hes pure crit(no end +5 on str only) i produce scrolls and elrues and i never find myself under 15s while i make enchancing items, maybe its just me. ive outdamaged plenty of fighters and cleric(mages and archers are a different story) with and without crit but maybe i havent gotten to the point where i should see them massively outdamaging me( or maybe they've all been poorly equiped and stats.)

[yangderox]

Boost in strength argee.. wad about SPR huh? u hit lvl 43 and get devastate and...??? the sp consumed is !!!!! yes its an aoe but fighters after so long to hit lvl 43 and the only AOE that inflict damage after 43 lvls of 1-hit-target skills... the sp consumption of fighters skills should lower or fighters extremely low sp should be boosted

[MyYing]

you know im a new comer to fiesta and maybe its just me but i dont agree with anything you guys posted, i have a lvl 18 fighter right now and hes pure crit(no end +5 on str only) i produce scrolls and elrues and i never find myself under 15s while i make enchancing items, maybe its just me. ive outdamaged plenty of fighters and cleric(mages and archers are a different story) with and without crit but maybe i havent gotten to the point where i should see them massively outdamaging me( or maybe they've all been poorly equiped and stats.)

Get Much higher...then come back and tell me you dont agree

[AzureSky]

Tank is best for leveling, allthough most people don't use this aproach, its the most practical. It does still cost money for hp/sp too though. Ranger is the cheapest and easiest to level.

better off just getting a friend whos a cleric and teaming for all your levels.

[laguiole]

i want to know where we get with this thread. GM are you thinking to upgrade fighter?

[THE_FOX_DEMON]

they suck at pvp u should have a cleric to heal urself when needed and there good at soloing and groups me personaly i like archers and clerics a cleric can heal u or ur friends and revive them.and archer is good at soloing and groups but not pvp they need to have a long range but there good to.a fighter has good hp thats really all.a mage is godd at everything dunno y but they are heres some ansers and even some u didnt say

[yangderox]

talking about PVP, fighters are down Down DOwn DOWN, mages and archer pawns fighter u chase them , they run, u stop they hit u, they ice u, they poison u >.<mayb fighter should b able 2 run fast???

[platina]

I am making this thread to see what the community has to say about the balance of the class as a whole. What I am looking for is short constructive criticism. There are 3 areas in particular that I want to know about.

Solo: how does a Fighter do soloing through the game

Group: Does the Fighter perform well as a front line warrior (as tank or damage dealer)

PVP: how well does the Fighter hold up against other classes

I am not looking for essays on these points just a couple sentences on the classes capablility in these areas (good, bad, or average), weaknesses (can't close distance, not enough damage, ect), and suggested fix. This is not a nerf post so please don't treat it as such, and please keep your suggestions clean.

Regards,
Dakkon

as a mainly end build

Solo: Expensive hp/sp cost..not worth the training or takes too much rest after fights to save money. (and we are talking bout yellow name ones). they need buffs skills, the few buff skills they got got a pro and a cons, not the case of clerics that all buffs are good...

Partying: End build is good, tho has the build to tank, cant hold the agroo that good if higher lvl archers or mage in party, SP stone amt isnt enough... so or we get higher sp stone storage or skills consumes less sp, cause at elven woods a fighter spams like 4-6 skills per mobs

PvP: guess the main problem is vs long range, the lack of ability to shorten the dist... vs clerics gota recheck, how come 1 hand fighter will do less dmg that 1h cleric...

So resuming,
-fighters will need to do more dmg as cleric ( dont tell me go 2 hand, cause clerics is as well 1 hand equiped, and will have block rate and more def than u if u go 2 hand).
-fighters need more sp stone, or decrease they sp consumption, since they spam so many skills at one go.
-even if the skill to short vs long range player or monst isnt implemented, fighters should walk bit faster.
-the taunt lvl of mock, or kick should be naturally higher than current.
-the gap of hp for fighter should be bit higher, after robo KQ even full end fighters can only tank if they are buffed, scrolled, and higher lvl (almost 2-3 lvls before max lvl for that kq)

[oteas]

I am making this thread to see what the community has to say about the balance of the class as a whole. What I am looking for is short constructive criticism. There are 3 areas in particular that I want to know about.

Solo: how does a Fighter do soloing through the game

Group: Does the Fighter perform well as a front line warrior (as tank or damage dealer)

PVP: how well does the Fighter hold up against other classes

I am not looking for essays on these points just a couple sentences on the classes capablility in these areas (good, bad, or average), weaknesses (can't close distance, not enough damage, ect), and suggested fix. This is not a nerf post so please don't treat it as such, and please keep your suggestions clean.

Regards,
Dakkon
WELL knee socks i just log in i know nothing about this game i am trying to sign up on fiesta can you tellme how to

[Enzio]

I think for starters, Fighters should have higher base hp or STR should give HP like END does but maybe not as much HP. END would still add block chance, def etc etc. Right now STR is pretty useless, the dmg it adds does not do much. OR what if STR added crit, something like 0.01 crit for every 2 str you add, maybe make STR add double the dmg it adds now per point. Basically the STR stat needs a boost and this cannot be overlooked.

I also think Fighter would be a lot better if the skills bone slicer and fatal where buffs instead of attacks. Maybe like a 2 minute buff to pierce a certain % of deffense instead the way it is now.

My 2 cents

[Ozlow]

I recommend 1:1 Str And End, why? Because your balenced out and if you can't find parties that have the qualities you need you can solo.

[XpierulesX]

Solo: Well if he's all end 1:1 str/end and fairly well on str

Group: Tank= ownage against the toughest enemies if your full end, full str is not so good.

PVP: Long range ones will own you pretty good... (clerics = unpossible to beat unless you gang them~)

[justin101]

in game name shawn


solo:they r pretty good as in attacking but they usually end up getting very good because of attack and def


group:good but not so good because as a fighter u want to kill very hard stuff so u take a cleric with u but if the cleric dies in a place like MT then so will the fighter indefinitly


pvp:good but against a cleric or high cleric we r doomed they heal themselves wen they get low on hp which says to me ``u shall die

[MorpheusX]

Just some suggestion since I have reached lvl 35+ now

Solo: Def is quite good for END builder, at lvl 37 I can solo mob lvl 41-43 without a pot or stones. Main problem is the high usage of skill, since skill spam is a must to take the mob down. I also wondering why fighter have a large SP consumption since their skill are purely physical skill not magical.

Party: The only skill use here is taunt, mock and later maybe devastate. Again, the high SP consumption doesn't make any sense, 100 SP for devastate? The mobs only got stunned, 100 SP consumption is acceptable if the mobs got magic damage as well. Again, fighter skills are pure physical skill.

[MyYing]

I recommend 1:1 Str And End, why? Because your balenced out and if you can't find parties that have the qualities you need you can solo.


Solo: Well if he's all end 1:1 str/end and fairly well on str

Group: Tank= ownage against the toughest enemies if your full end, full str is not so good.

PVP: Long range ones will own you pretty good... (clerics = unpossible to beat unless you gang them~)


stay on topic...pls

[SSide]

Coming from a full end fighter.

Solo: I do great soloing, I always make a profit, and I dont need to protect anyone, nor is anyone blaming me for letting them die. Sure it make take a bit of time to kill them, but the damage isnt all too great and nothing I need to keep tabs on every single second.

Group: If I have a cleric with me, its pretty good, otherwise its me using stones. I think we do a good job protecting those who deal physical damage, and archers/mages can deal with the magical dealing ones considering they are usually easier to kill.

PvP: People I run from....clerics, other tanks. Id rather get rid of the people I can actually kill first, and if a cleric is healing them...well...upgraded stun is your friend.

Sidenote: Concussive Charge should be shield only, or make it deal some repurcussion to those not using a shield such as a little damage, or make the success rate higher with shields.

[Anferus]

If GM Dakkon hasn't abandon this post please say something :o

Coming from a 5:1:1 str:end:spr 1h/shield fighter

Solo: Prepare to use tons of stones and pots. Dmg is bad. Def is bad. Skills are your only dmg dealers. But soloing boss is possible if you spam pots and stones. Adding to str does almost nothing sadly. This part need major fixing.

Group: Damage deal only. Mocking will usually cause an instance death in groups of monsters. Pros: You can protect your entire party with no problems at all. I have never lost aggo. before as a tank, sometimes i don't even taunt.

PvP: If you are lucky, you will Cri. a Cleric many times and win. Has happen :D. Other than that a impure str fighter can't kill a cleric either. Believe it or not a Cleric with the same lvl can do more dmg than you, so dont worry about a long battle with a cleric they beat you in almost every way. The 1h sword needs to be faster if not str.

To finish it off: I think GM Dakkon has chosen the beat weapon, the 2h, the shield is next to worthless, you will see an average of 5 block every hours or so. You don't even need a shield to tank.:eek:

[Enzio]

I would like to know if we will actually see improvements ingame from this thread or is this just a giant waste of time.

[Shadowfiend]

I'll just say fighters are great , but still weapons should have little more dmg :D, and more hp.

[MyYing]

If GM Dakkon hasn't abandon this post please say something :o

Coming from a 5:1:1 str:end:spr 1h/shield fighter

Solo: Prepare to use tons of stones and pots. Dmg is bad. Def is bad. Skills are your only dmg dealers. But soloing boss is possible if you spam pots and stones. Adding to str does almost nothing sadly. This part need major fixing.

Group: Damage deal only. Mocking will usually cause an instance death in groups of monsters. Pros: You can protect your entire party with no problems at all. I have never lost aggo. before as a tank, sometimes i don't even taunt.

PvP: If you are lucky, you will Cri. a Cleric many times and win. Has happen :D. Other than that a impure str fighter can't kill a cleric either. Believe it or not a Cleric with the same lvl can do more dmg than you, so dont worry about a long battle with a cleric they beat you in almost every way. The 1h sword needs to be faster if not str.

To finish it off: I think GM Dakkon has chosen the beat weapon, the 2h, the shield is next to worthless, you will see an average of 5 block every hours or so. You don't even need a shield to tank.:eek:
Funny how a tank cant hold an aggro to save his life yet a pure str build holds aggro for years lol. This needs fixing aswell so Ive got another idea for you. Maybe making the AoE taunt do 100dmg to every mob so aggro could stay mantained to help those poor tanks out. Keep the cd time at 10secs and PLEASE DO NOT INCREASE THE MANA USE if anything it should be decreased..by ALOT.


I would like to know if we will actually see improvements ingame from this thread or is this just a giant waste of time.

Im starting to think it's a waste of time my dam self but eh it's their game not mines. Im just a retired player from this game still hoping it improves enough to bring me back,if not then I can always find other games that will and inturn spend my wallet there ^.- b

[Enzio]

Funny how a tank cant hold an aggro to save his life yet a pure str build holds aggro for years lol. This needs fixing aswell so Ive got another idea for you. Maybe making the AoE taunt do 100dmg to every mob so aggro could stay mantained to help those poor tanks out. Keep the cd time at 10secs and PLEASE DO NOT INCREASE THE MANA USE if anything it should be decreased..by ALOT.



Im starting to think it's a waste of time my dam self but eh it's their game not mines. Im just a retired player from this game still hoping it improves enough to bring me back,if not then I can always find other games that will and inturn spend my wallet there ^.- b



Sealonline for the win :D

[MorpheusX]

Just another suggestion after a wild GW last night (5 ppl vs 10+ ppl :p).

PvP: A fighter with full def + buff scroll + cleric support is invincible, during the last GW I have to deal with at least 5 ppl (clerics and fighters), and yet I managed to survive long enough untill I got stunned and they beat me into a pulp. I wish I had AoE to use during this situation, mages and archer have AoE at low lvl (20 or 30) while fighter have one at lvl 43. My suggestion, make AoE devastate available at lower lvl, like 30 or something. :cool:

[r4ng3r]

I was thinking, would 1 handed axes be any good?.
1h axes:
sheild compatible with it
1.4 sec cool-down time
damage same as 2h sword
(you get from lvl 20 job change quest).

[ninjawolf]

Solo, Group:i think that fighters should have more damage abilties because sometimes as a lvl 45 fighter i party with lvl 55+ mages or archer who even after i taunt they end up pulling the monster and when they die they blame me and i become classified as a "bad tank". And i can't taunt again because of cooldown.

PVP: all we need is a cleric and we can easily kill everyone insight unless we get mobbed by like 10 on 1.

[-Leona-]

If the one hand axe would appear with the same damage as the 2h sword what the heck would the point of using a 2h sword be, so it's an idea that fails miserably.(just for lil more accuracy in place of A TON of extra defence +block that u get from a shield won't worth to even attempt using a 2h sword)

[Archaonn]

I was thinking, would 1 handed axes be any good?.
1h axes:
sheild compatible with it
1.8 sec cool-down time
damage a little bit more than 1h sword
(you get from lvl 20 job change quest).

Fixed for fairness

[MyYing]

Ok...GM Dakkon you seriously need to get off your lazy a$$ and respond on this thread...it's fairly simple just log in and say "I'm here". Not that hard people want to know that someone is actually listening.

p.s. For those mad at how I'm talking to the gm's forgive for not being an a$$ kisser, but its an aquired taste that I doubt I'll ever aquire ^.-b

[Summit]

lol go Yang...than again *** kissers are needed someone in games i mean someone has to rub up and cuddle with gms to keep them from annoying the players who dont care to do so.. am i right?

[MyYing]

lol go Yang...than again *** kissers are needed someone in games i mean someone has to rub up and cuddle with gms to keep them from annoying the players who dont care to do so.. am i right?
Hmm thats true...point noted and taken lol ^^

[ghost219]

fighters can't even hold on to an agrro..becuz of clerics who dun spam heal and end up blaming fighters for not tanking..can u make fighters more powerful??like given them more hp..XD:D

[XpierulesX]

Mock-Time! da na na na na na na~

[Summit]

fighters can't even hold on to an agrro..becuz of clerics who dun spam heal and end up blaming fighters for not tanking..can u make fighters more powerful??like given them more hp..XD:D

lol what fighters cant hold aggro?and if your having problems with clerics keeping you alive uhmm little advice FIND A BETTER CLERIC ^.^ like maybe non newbs.. or just grind things you can solo...instead of wasting time and xp at harder mobs where the cleric lets you die 10x more than you want.

[dmitsuki]

all class's minus clerics are useless, im a fighter and i cant do anything but clerics can do whatever they want, there invicible and its REALLY hard to kill them in pvp, the only suggestion for this game is to make it where clerics are not gods.........i dont like having to pull a kratos everytime i fight one its annoying -_-

[tzt55]

oh well i guess its depend on the stats u add in and the equipment u hold..

if u go pure end and hold 1h+shield then soloing will be a stupid thing to do when u reach lv4x, the damage your 1h dealt is like tickling the monster its take way to long to kill a mob your lvl and most of the time u will need to rest when u done killing 2 of them. But while fighting in group everyone will most likely to party a pure end tanker than other build when trainning in a group. Fighter that add full end will most likely stuck to the party forever if they want to lvl on lol, if they cant find a party then its gg for them T_T. And if the cleric your partying in arent doing a great job in healing the tank then most likely the tank will be the first to die and others escaping lol. (im a lv52 full end tank and i experience the situation above before)

for 2h fighter with crit build killing soloing will be much faster than full end with the critical keep coming but with the shield defence missing they take alot of damage thus resulting in spamming pot to survive the mob attack which most probably costs a bomb. while in party 2h cant really tank alot of mob as the defence missing from the shield is so great it is as if your not wearing any armor. So aoe trainning will be hard for 2h which make aoe skill later on not that important for a 2h to buy since they are suppose to kill the mob one at a time.

ok for pvp 1h fighter most likely wont be able to kill anyone cause of their little damage they disk out, the other class will just be able to use stone in time before they die which make the fight endless until one use up all their stone. 2h fighter will be a better pker but very vulnerable to mage spell damage which the 2h fighter will die in like 3 hit before they reach the opponent if they didnt use any stone.

so in conclusion i think 1h and 2h figher are like totally different classes, its either u can tank well and damage lesser with 1h or u cant tank well and do more damage with 2h. Last but not least there seen to be a problem with the str stats, for every 5 stats in str you only get a extra 1 str bonus lol its was like not really useful and its make me wonder whats the str stats for in this game when u can get for example like +22 damage from a +3 axe, wooh amazing u almost gain 20 lvl lol get what i mean?

[Eluchil]

Solo: I think fighters need to be a bit more resilient. They feel only slightly stronger and tougher than a cleric, which can heal themselves and remove status effects without the need of potions. They feel a little on the week side and are too dependent on clerics for support.

Group: When grouped with a cleric a fighter is great. No complaints, except for the lack of range which leaves them at a strict disadvantage.

Guild: Depends on what class/level you're fighting; the first two points apply.

[Wolfdevil007]

In first hi all;
well about a fighter build i dont think all to one thing is good , ( i dont share tht point) all to one thing is uselles if you all END.. come on you get kicked your *** by a mage . till you run to him WIHT all tht life and all tht defense you so low on mgc defense == i try tht you should hv a better build like if ; STR 10 ; END 30 OR 32 ; AND the other things like 5 , then you keep tht build in progress ,
About the solo thing ; is great to solo == only if you hv plenty time (because :: wao you kill a big dude at uruga "an orc" nice exp but slower kill"
About the party lover ; thts one of me, guys thts why the cleric mage and archer exit to help you killing faster "little less exp but so fast killing at lvl 48 i spend some time with afull party ; members ( cleric lvl 48 ; cleric lvl 48 ; fighter lvl 53 ; fighter lvl 48 ) in 50 minuts or less killing trumpys 20% me at lvl 48..

[darking420]

Well i have played all 4 classes and spent alot of time watching and talking to other players. From personal playing and chating/comparing notes Ive come to the conclusion that the only class that is out of balance is the Clerics (reason bots are clerics 90% of the time). As far as fighters go in paticaler the taunts need a little twinking either stronger, much shorter cool downs or both. Added damage wouldnt hurt either if fighterrs are supose to me masters of fighting then it stands to reason that raiseing there crit ratios as there lvls raise would make total sence as well as cominsate somewhat to the lack of solo potential of the class.
With single mobs yea i keep agro fine in a pty but more then that causes issues with mob control. 1 gets loose goes after the cleric or dps cleric heals someone else or them selves and the fighter dies in the process because of the break in the chain healing. And we all know what happens next after the tank has no way to recontain the extra mobs. Ppl start running and training or drop like flys.
Solo yea right after lvl 40 its roughly 10s to restone and you burn stones like mad so barely break even, or the alternative kill one mob rest kill one mob rest. Takes freaking forever to make any headway. Kinda depressing to watch a cleric solo 3 at a time for hours on end without stoping. Last time i cheaked this is what id call severly >>>unbalanced<<<.
PvP well thats a horse of a differant color a good fighter that times there combos right can take any class other then a cleric. At 44 i took out a 49 fighter with little trouble yet on the same day i had to have help to kill a cleric in there mid to high 30s. Must be nice to have a endless supply of hps with defence almost on par with the tanks as well as the unrealistic damage on cleric weapons.
So to sum it up twink the taunts and maybe slightly the damage on the fighters and give the clerics a HUGE NERF AXE if you truely want to balance this game out.

[ttkk_undead]

FIGHER AND CLERIC ROCKS!! the rest suks:p

[a.long]

Wow! O_O That is long.

[JayJ1231]

some stupid people in here..... hes asking for PvP for the 3rd thing NOT guild.....

[Onikasu]

SOLO: Fighters need to be able to take more hits for less damage. The whole point of a fighter is to do less damage than a mage but be able to be a brick wall, yet that can easily be outdone by a cleric who is just spam-healing. Which seems kind of messed up that a cleric can out-do a warrior because of 1 spell. 0_o

Grouping: Fighters in a group are reasonably balanced, especially with Agro control skills. only downside is needing alot of healing form the clerics.

PVP: I have not yet tried PVP'ing.

[TheDarx]

Solo: It kinda depends on the build and weapon-type you use, but even with that the dmg of the weapons is just a bit too low. If their Def/HP or dmg would be a bit higher it should be ok. This ofcourse can be fixed by enhancing and putting a license on your weapon.

Party: Everyone considers the Fighters as tanks, but Fighters are called Fighters for a reason. If you dont have a good enhanced weapon or a good license lvl on your weapon. You'll be considered weak and yes, you'll be seen as a Tanker instead of a Fighter. In Parties usually the fighter will be the tanker by default, no matter his build or weapon-type.


PVP: Clerics have advantage over other classes at this. Fighters simply lack Def/HP and dmg.

[Tking223]

When I used to play EverQuest II, us fighters was the main key part of a party because of our high attack and defense and the magic users was our supporters. Fighters need some self healing more HP, Def, and Attack Power.
Also fighter are not pure non-magic, the main magic that fighters used is stuff like to increase HP, defense and Attack to self or party.

[marcuslim50]

i wanna be fighter

[tiger98]

When I used to play EverQuest II, us fighters was the main key part of a party because of our high attack and defense and the magic users was our supporters. Fighters need some self healing more HP, Def, and Attack Power.
Also fighter are not pure non-magic, the main magic that fighters used is stuff like to increase HP, defense and Attack to self or party.



me too;) hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi:eek:

[tiger98]

i wanna be fighter

me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hihihi
:mad::eek::o:D

[seeck5045]

if fighter need add wat stat at each lv and skill can teach a little gal at here n i want be 1sword fighter

[mysticarts101]

I wonder if a STR and DEX build would work. Evasion works for both physical and magical attacks, there's no better way to survive an attack to to evade it like archers seem to do...and the strength would help with the damage. You could put a some into END if you like, or SPR, depending on what you wanted. Just a though. I only have a lvl 13 fighter so I have A LOT to learn, but seems like that would work.

[Raptorg]

solo the fighter is an amazing experience, i barely die(the only time i die is when i'm fighting an elite monsters and forget to press the HP stone button :p) however a pulling ability that causes a little damage and has a 12 yard range would be very useful

in parties the fighter is even more fun, i'm the one standing toe to toe with the enemy and all he's doing and tickle me while i'm smashing my sword into his face and chuckle as the cleric heals all that damage away, only.. the pull ability is really needed, atm i need a mage or archer to pull mobs or run into a pack and risk attracting unwanted attention, and this is too annoying
another thing that would be useful is a 10% healing done(by clerics only, not stones and pots) to SP conversion it's really annoying to sustain damage while chugging stones and pots.. not to mention fighters don't have many stone slots which is also very annoying in this case

PvP: no comment, it'd probably suck :p

[aerisgainborough]

hi, um.. i use to play lik support class lasttime in my old game so now i wanna be fighter lik knight :D plss help me out the build for GUD Knight :) thanks ;) <3 ~~

[Tyris]

Fighters vary dramatically based on equipment and build.

Solo: A fighter is a strong soloer under any circumstances. The slight range of the taunt allows us to control our pulls better than a cleric and even with a full end build we kill decently fast.

Party: Fighters just aren't necessary enough early in the game. The difference in defence between classes is not dramatic early. Later levels they become needed as they finally have a significant defence advantage over a cleric in a party.

PvP: Fighters aren't too useful here. Some way of interrupting spells at range (or point blank) would make them useful, as it is they're just targets. In a game where mages and clerics can just use whatever skill they want whenever they want, the fighter gets the short end of the stick.

[MyYing]

wow...i been gone from this game and these forums for a LONG time (months) and Dakkon still aint responded...man you are a true anus ^.- b

[Prashanth_eragon]

im a level 10 fighter myself .i don't find a fighter being weaker to a cleric.i couls defeat one myself.i all depends on how you allot the sequence of your special attacks

[nameprism]

hello give rights

[jaramamo]

solo: im a mix of high def and medemum spr and str this makes a good all around fighter. fighting monster my level fight 2 at once and rest.

Group: it is even better because you get the dam and att increace if you have a claric.it works becaus you can deal good damg and crits while being able to take hits. great for party fighting.

pvp: never done one:p

jaramamo: fighter level 31

jojimjbobob: level 23 claric

[Kurosaki713]

[laguiole] I don't know i am searching for a guild rigth now but seem like you can't get one under lvl 30 .... i am lvl 24[/QUOTE]

Well Kaotic is looking and we dont have many fighters, wisper HollowSlayer for more info.

Solo: Every one of these posts have been right, tanks take a long time to lvl.

Group: Im lvl 29 and we go to collapsed prison, it is great for lvling.

PvP: My guild is not too into warring so i cant comment.

[FinalFantasy318]

i tiped in the exact email and pasword i tiped in the regustration but it says some thing like error 401 miss tiped

[FinalFantasy318]

can some one help me

[cabrit69]

I think that when you get into the higher levels that you would be a better tanker and can take a lot of damage.
I also solo a lot. I think it's easier to level up that way.

[tomvsrock]

can i just check if the increase str and damge skill for lvl 22 got any use?
i spend 3s to buy it and when i learnt it i got 0 increase in anything... is it a bug?

[LIBYANO]

The only problem i have with fighters is low Magic defence, the best way to fix this is to increase our armours Magic defence, best solution i believe. also Adding a passive skill which increases Physical Def and Hp would be nice, Active skills are all good.

---Server Teva----
Libyano Fighter lvl 17
C:\Documents and Settings\DEEEEEEN BOOOOOO\Desktop\My StUfF\My Pictures

[ComputerSC]

Solo: with a damage-type fighter soloing makes pretty fast xp. However, it is money-draining, do it only when you're rich.

Group: With good clerics you tank good, with bad clerics you tank bad, no matter how much HP/defense you have. Having high damage from either two hand weapons or some points on STR is important to hold agro. Up from lvl43, with a well-empowered devasate, tanking gets a lot more easier.
What is an issue here is that we run out of SP stones quickly - the team has to go restock just because of the fighter being low on SP.
Having low magic defense is not an issue, the game would be too easy if we wouldn't take high magic damage. Anyway, there aren't that many magic-hitting monsters in the game, as far as i remember.

PvP: no idea.

Revy from Teva, lvl56.
--inactive--

[kriegengel]

Over two months and not even a peep from the GM. MWT?

[Shadowfiend]

Here we go .....

Solo: Fine for me as 2h sword fighter, tho little bit more critical % would be nice and more magical deffence.
Party: I think in party its just perfect as it is.
PvP: People think that tanks can't kill clerics...... LIES (sometimes) if you think clerics can heal and that makes them immortal or imposible to kill, thats wrong. Im not gona say why or give an example, I just say that its not impossible or hard to do . Other classes.... well fighters kinda out go them.

[Kraloths]

Im only lvl 10 but heres my opinion

Solo: its ok but u need 2 haf loads of pots & stuf

Group: partying rocks especially with a cleric

PvP: I havnt tried yet how do u PvP

[twigy55]

Solo: i totaly agree with the comments that every1 one has made above, about post lvl 25 its takes too much time and money!But i do come with a solution to this problem. A fighter should have the ability to regain hp whe he/she is not moving, so this would mean that the fighter can fighter for longer and use less money, but the hp recovery has too be balanced not too much and not too low.

Group: its perfect as it is!

PvP: as some one else said cleric are too hard to kill! one on one there is no chance that any class at same lvl can achieve this

gilly

[jonathanbartles]

I see people complaining about fighters now too. I have a full end tank and a full str fighter. Both are completely dominant and can't be complained about. I can tank things w/ my str fighter as well as any end fighter w/ a good cleric. If you give fighters more hp or str you'll overdo it. You as a player are suppose to use you advantages for your benefit and your disadvantages you need to keep hidden.

[luwidelosreyes]

hmm. IMO..

SOLO: i started fighter with no money and only the default stones from when i started but i already keep enough money from leveling. what i say is, i seldom buy pots,i seldom stay on house to rest, and i kinda like being solo for fast leveling. i dont know but i havent tried other char yet. the only problem i encountered so far is that low on magic def so when i am hit by a magic attack, it damages me a lot. SPR helps me a lot, 2x or 3x crit is good

PARTY: with a cleric is way too cool. but i like it solo though.

PVP: i havent tried PVP yet. maybe when i get stronger? LOL

[Bharadwaj100x]

I go for Solo
because soloing is very easy and u lvl up quickly and the build should be pure str

[max13]

Fighters need more hp and damage on weapons. Clerics can even take on a fighter 1v1 at same level =\


thats right fighters need more def and hp and attack!!!!!:D

[Timber101]

Personally I prefer this class and feel all the others are far weaker. If you don't agree fine, but this is my opinion. I do not do team ups EVER. I would like to be able to use two swords at the same time. I would also like to see a battle charge and maybe even a battle cry. I was also wondering if there could be class houses. Places where warriors could meet up with other warriors or maybe guild houses. Another idea would be special guild moves. Once a guild reaches a preset size, as in the number of members to that guild, then the entire guild gets the use of a special combat move that no other guild has.

[spanky]

i have two character with feista right (archer lvl 30, and fighter lvl 21), and i have more fun with my archer. althought it is cool to see a fighter, fight with the axe and sword and sheild, but if you want my opinion, i lvl'd up faster with my fighter then the archer.
i don't think it's all that hard for the fighter to play the game, they will do what they are supposed to do (fighter). no matter how you adjust your stats my lvl 21 fighter has more hp then my lvl 30 archer.

[lordeli510]

yea Dakkon fighters are a good class but after lvl 25 soloing not an option for us.. especially trying to grind byourselves.. also our mag def isnt all that great. and against clerics...well no ones good against clerics...=) anyhow the fighters good but they could use some adjustments.

[ANDREWMANDUDE]

Solo:Well if you're pure str you won't do to well. If you're pure end I would say you would be better off in a party.
Party:Depends on who you're with. Clerics are great with fighters but not mages or archers unless the fighter has plenty of potions.
PvP:Not really a PvP person

[kyle_infinity]

fighter rock out loud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[kyle_infinity]

I am making this thread to see what the community has to say about the balance of the class as a whole. What I am looking for is short constructive criticism. There are 3 areas in particular that I want to know about.

Solo: how does a Fighter do soloing through the game

Group: Does the Fighter perform well as a front line warrior (as tank or damage dealer)

PVP: how well does the Fighter hold up against other classes

I am not looking for essays on these points just a couple sentences on the classes capablility in these areas (good, bad, or average), weaknesses (can't close distance, not enough damage, ect), and suggested fix. This is not a nerf post so please don't treat it as such, and please keep your suggestions clean.

Regards,
Dakkon
fighter rock hard

[absolut]

Dakkon , thank you for giving us fighters a chance to help better our characters.

i am a 5x fighter on Apoline. +25 SPR / +37 STR

Solo: Soloing isn't too bad, but the characters defense (not end) should be higher as to take less damage. As i'm sure everyone agrees soloing is costly.

Group: Parties are great, before i switched my stats around i was mostly end, the only difference i notice now is quicker kills, besides the obvious less hp. but defense is still an issue. As well as it would be nice to have more AOE attacks.

PVP: PVP battles are ok, archers are cake ( no offense to anyone who is an archer), but poison is a fighter's enemy. Mages take tons of damage off a fighter, but have less def and can be taken out. Clerics are the most difficult, but as a cleric should be, it should be last to die. Aside from stunning them and hoping they run out of stones and potions, they are very difficult to take down. (that said, i'm surprised i haven't seen a cleric GM)

All in all the fighter is decent. The fighter class could be made better by the following, increased movement and attack speed, higher defense, stronger skill attacks, and possibly some better AOE skills, like a dmg surrounding targets for xxx amount of dmg. Its much better to dmg multiple targets, and not always have to depend on archers and mages. In my opinion the fighter should be the strongest of all classes physical dmg wise, and defense wise.

Thank you, once again, for the opportunity to let the players possibly make a difference and to make the game more enjoyable through our input.

[jebwilliam]

erm..the post above me..

All in all the fighter is decent. The fighter class could be made better by the following, increased movement and attack speed, higher defense, stronger skill attacks, and possibly some better AOE skills, like a dmg surrounding targets for xxx amount of dmg. Its much better to dmg multiple targets, and not always have to depend on archers and mages. In my opinion the fighter should be the strongest of all classes physical dmg wise, and defense wise.

i find this dumb though..anyone would benefit with those,there would be no balance if all of these wer placed.

i agree with fighters to have decent AOE skill/s,to make parties nice.^_^

[Drew697]

PVP: If you get the stun skill and decrease the cool down time drasticly, you can really kick
butt. Stunning the cleric or mage or w/e makes them not move

[absolut]

OMG REALLY I NEVER KNEW THAT?!?!?! this thread isnt for responding to other ppls posts, but to the GM's original post, read the beginning

[absolut]

and yes i agree that other classes could benefit from my suggestions, but after all this was a thread about the FIGHTER class:)

[GM_Dakkon]

Thank you for all the input guys. I am not closing the thread, to allow me to recompile all the suggestions.

GM Dakkon