1.17.09 Epith Raid FAIL! x_X

[allh0pelost]

ok, we failed. lets try and figure out why. here is my vid of the first (and probably best attempt) at pulling helga out of his tomb with the objective of putting him into another tomb :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnLNa4AJFcg

the only way to see anything clearly is to watch it in HD. i know some other took vids; feel free to post them in this thread as well. the best we can do is watch and learn.

also, i'd like to add that although this video may have some funny moments (i already commented a playback time on the vid that i thought to be hilarious) it is meant for learning purposes. i am in no way making fun of the raid. some of u guys know i was there for the entire thing healing and dying over and over again. ^^

[YoshimaruOrona]

http://www.xfire.com/video/66c4f/

My own little vid of our fail =x Unedited, of course (laziness ftw).

(1:42 = my jaw dropping as I stare at the dmg dealt xD )

I've also been chatting on teva's subforums. There was considerable planning involved with their raid. They put a lot of work into that raid =x And their result was a success. We kinda rushed our raid, imo (when it "started", myself, along with many other participants [including Hero_Fame, N_Kinjen, Thing, and a considerable number of others], were in Uruga wondering where to meet >>; )

Now, my little notes on our raid:

~The gw was a huge problem. You have any idea how frustrating it is to watch a tank die b/c you cant heal him? (3:45~4:00 shows one time when this happened)

~Nobody listening to directions. Some people kept running out in the middle of the map without reason and others kept running towards the ore because they thought they were supposed to mine it >< Raiders need to, if nothing else, read the forums so they can learn little bits of info like "mining the ore is pointless".



http://www.xfire.com/video/66a5b/


This is a video of Teva's raid from one of the clerics on the frontlines pulling helga. If you go here, (http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141250&page=12) you'll see many more vids from teva's raid. I know it hurts to watch them win, but just look at it and see what they're doing, so we can try it ourselves.

Please notice from their vids that they don't RUN OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MAP (check the teva raiders' mini maps for confirmation). The middle of the map is the easiest way to draw agro from every single monster on the map...and how many times did we pull helga along with 4-5 extra monsters? We should've only had 2 ... his archer and mage bodyguard, which brings me to my next point.

~(Hero_Fame himself said this) DDs, particularly the ranged ones, need to focus on killing the mage hell guardian that comes with king helga. Dont stare at the big guy, kill the purple one beside him. Fighter's m.def's can only reach so high and it just so happens that mage hell guardians hit the hardest besides helga himself.

~Fear is a huge problem that we keep having. We need tanks on standby in case the "main tank" gets feared. Vi3t gets feared in my vid and Hero_Fame gets feared in your vid, Uyoku .... and almost always, as soon as the tank gets feared, all hell breaks loose.

~Patience is key. Don't step out in front of the tanks because you want to see something. Don't run towards the sword in the shining light because its pretty. And dont keep saying in shout to "Go pull Helga". Its not cool, its not funny, and it only increases the stress thats already laid on tanks and clerics.

Those are my thoughts for now. I'll post again if I get more...



EDIT: Went to the trouble of getting a mini map of helga's raid and drawing out what we kept doing...everyone understood that we needed to get to the ore, yes, but the issue lied in getting there.

This is what we kept doing...

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p178/YoshimaruOrona/HelgasTombMapDeathRun.jpg

This is what we should've done instead....

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p178/YoshimaruOrona/HelgasTombMapTeva-LikeRun.jpg

Even though we can pull Helga by running through the middle of the map, we draw uber agro. By hugging the walls, we eliminate having to deal with any monsters on the right side of the map. Less monsters = less likelyhood of deaths. Less deaths = less rezzing = more healing. Simple math, right?

Also, keep in mind that the more time we spend trying to pull helga, the more time kallaps and hell guardians get before spawning again and gb'ing us.

[bl1ndf1r3]

i say get rid of the lvl 70- ppl. bc most of them just ran trough middle ran back with 5 mobs. and i tought of an stratagy ill draw it soon ^^

greetz Material

[ulquiorraschiffer777]

Booo -.- lol i looked like i was running away the whole time (=x Only from Mage Ones I Really Was Tho)
Either way Nice Video :3

[allh0pelost]

Please notice from their vids that they don't RUN OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MAP (check the teva raiders' mini maps for confirmation). The middle of the map is the easiest way to draw agro from every single monster on the map...and how many times did we pull helga along with 4-5 extra monsters? We should've only had 2 ... his archer and mage bodyguard, which brings me to my next point.

Even though we can pull Helga by running through the middle of the map, we draw uber agro. By hugging the walls, we eliminate having to deal with any monsters on the right side of the map. Less monsters = less likelyhood of deaths. Less deaths = less rezzing = more healing. Simple math, right?

Also, keep in mind that the more time we spend trying to pull helga, the more time kallaps and hell guardians get before spawning again and gb'ing us.

you're so right on that...

from watching one of those vids you can definitely tell they planned the raid out well and hugged the left-side wall of the tomb. they also did not pull helga very far.... just to the mouth of the tomb. we kept trying to pull helga all the way down to the bottom of the map, which is just extremely unnecessary...

i'll have to edit this and post up some screens/another vid later on when i get the chance ^^


*edit* they also turned helga around so his AOE wouldn't hit everyone down the main hallway... xD

[stormyxone]

In my opinion, Epith's raids will continue to fail unless a couple things change. First, we have a number of individual people who are capable of planning a raid. Our problem is that so far, not one of these people has actually been able to lead. A leader needs to be able to communicate well, and have the respect of the people he's leading. ALL of the people. When others attempt to take over the leader's position, a bad example is set for the rest of the group, and everyone just goes their own way.

Second, the overall plans that we're using may or may not ever succeed. We'll never know, because the plan isn't followed. This is partially because of the things I've mentioned above. It's also because of the number of people who participate who never know what the plan is...they don't visit the forums, or whatever the reason may be.

I don't know what the solution is for us yet. But until everyone recognizes the problems, we aren't going to fix them.

[ajwanted90]

no i will say it was good raid me and my guildies was on there for like 6 hours we lure helga so many time fyi it was 28 of us left doing it and is so hard we lack of cleric even i was tanking kallaps if some of u saw it but yea im not gona give up and i will like to give it another try

[devin_nicolai]

Lmao I kept telling them to do that, but pete said it was useless <o<

[bl1ndf1r3]

lol we make a new raid with more clerics and less low lvls alright? and just do it over and keep order in there we need more structure guys it was a mess.

[TwistedFreak]

sooooooooo when we gonna try again next?

[YoshimaruOrona]

Lol I'm still gathering some info from teva and apo's raids (bijou's keeping their plans and recruitment under wraps, it seems >>; )

I'm glad everyone's excited about trying again. Expect another raid to be held two weekends from now ;o

*will put up thread sometime today*

[bl1ndf1r3]

yyaayaya can i put my idea on ? ^^

[YoshimaruOrona]

Of course. Share with us =P

[bl1ndf1r3]

bc i have to lol i make soon alright

[YoshimaruOrona]

bc i have to lol i make soon alright

Okies =x

*waits for blind to put his plans up before making another raid thread*

[ajwanted90]

i say we try again ppl and we make party inside tomb because some people couldnt even show up iam up for it because i want see helga down on his or her knees xD

[bl1ndf1r3]

its only plan about the first part of the raid in the big room bc it was a mess in there everyone was walking over eachother. and palace (tank) couldnt even select the mob bc of the ppl where all over the place so i gonna make plan for that ^^

[bl1ndf1r3]

shawg u just want the wand ahah

[YoshimaruOrona]

http://video.xfire.com/5d67e-4.jpg (http://www.xfire.com/video/5d67e/)

(: thats why xD

For those who couldn't figure out what was the deal with the ore, watch that.

It was graciously donated by Sacred_Leon from Teva to help us with our own cause. Too bad we couldn't use it effectively at the time.

Anyway, my personal idea was to try and pull Helga the same way as was done in this vid. Not many mobs this way, plenty of people to kill the mobs, and I -will- be organizing the crowd in such a way so that everybody can lend a hand without stepping on each other's toes.

[devin_nicolai]

zzzz Just make a new thread blind.

[ajwanted90]

i dont need a wand I WANT A STAFF D< I WILL BE GODLIEST PERSON EVER XD

[bl1ndf1r3]

sure u do 0,o

and mana what is wrong with this topic?

and orona can u send picture of the helga tomb map not edited?

[carttracs]

wasted my time posting this idk why i posted it x.x sorry xD

[ajwanted90]

FFS i was tanking on the raid xD and beside all this treat making wont help just need all ppl we can gather trying kill danm helga lol because ppl dont show up or we have ppl trying lure mobs and make us all mad/pissed and leave lol

[bl1ndf1r3]

yeah what a mess men like 10 lvl 40 peepz luring 3+ kalaps everytime i can shoot them

[YoshimaruOrona]

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p178/YoshimaruOrona/HelgasTombMapUnedited.jpg

There you go ^^

[bl1ndf1r3]

yaaaay thnx who is gonna open new raid topic?

[YoshimaruOrona]

I will as soon as I finish planning out some things... *0*

-been staring at a piece of paper and writing notes all day, it seems-

[bl1ndf1r3]

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr351/material_fiesta/helgatomb-.jpg

the white line is just first point we kill a few and they grey line same ppl but the next piece of killing. i was thinking about the mages stay behind the tank i saw in the last raid that mages and clerics where walking on top to. un nessecary bc some of them get one hitted. and rev takes time.

so i was suggesting make a line of tanks on top who take the mobs mages just kill them fast and clerics have time to heal. bc no one dies. everyone is safe and structure stays. and if a tank die some mages can move up and get few hits till the tank is revved. that was my idea. u keep the structure and order and i dont see any problems ^^

[YoshimaruOrona]

Thats the basic idea :P My plan is taking more time because I'm putting -LOADS- of detail into it, but you pretty much have the idea already.

I have diagrams drawn up now, I just need time to type them up, post them, and maybe regain my sanity @.@;

-planning a raid is tougher than it looks-

[bl1ndf1r3]

even if its the basic idea where was it yesterday lol half the raid was wondering off. ><

[YoshimaruOrona]

....there was no idea yesterday v.v

[bl1ndf1r3]

lol i say better plan less lower lvls and better partys

[YoshimaruOrona]

Dw, I'll take care of the parties ;P

And if I get enough help and everybody doing their job, even lower levels shouldn't be able to screw it up.

[ajwanted90]

look an idea is we need alest 4-6 tank like oro plans but we need alest 2-3 tank stay back by gate because when we lure helga they can help lure him back

[ajwanted90]

Also i dont die in 5 secound tyvm call me Mank xD the tanking mage

[bl1ndf1r3]

not u i meand the the dungeon mobs men saw how fast we killed them. or shall i say I muahahah

EDIT: well the lower lvl screwed up a little buy not knowing what they did and luring damn mobs for no reason

[YoshimaruOrona]

not u i meand the the dungeon mobs men saw how fast we killed them. or shall i say I muahahah

EDIT: well the lower lvl screwed up a little buy not knowing what they did and luring damn mobs for no reason

To be precise, I recall a lv7x fighter running out everytime, dying, giving us the grief of killing his pulls, then begging us for rez's. There was also a 5x cleric who ran out once or twice, died, and did the same as the fighter. Finally, there was a 2x fighter who came from nowhere. But this guy was more competent than the 7x fighter or 5x cleric. Not once did he run out and draw agro. He was part of the crowed, lended a hand when he could (dunno if he landed any hits e.e) and never got in the way.

Basically, its not lower lv's thats a problem. Its just a matter of idiocy and an inability to listen when you have 30420394820 8x players saying the same thing to you.

[bl1ndf1r3]

maybe they need pair of glasses

[Lukasz_Lucky]

Aww,i am sorry you guys failed.I hope you kill Helga next time.

*Wondering if all servers kill Helga,what would happen XD*

[YoshimaruOrona]

Lol thread is up now, if you wanna look.

Not finished yet though xD

And thanks Lucky ^^

[kibaxme]

i wonder which server will b next to defeat helga o.o hope its epith x3