Solution to spammers

[adf1falken]

currently you can repeat what you say indefinately by pressing the up key while in the chat box.

Problem This allows spammers to spam

Solution disable the ability to repeat what you said in normal chat...


P.S. Its also incredibly annoying when i first spawn into a map and my whisper gets filled by spam.

[YoshimaruOrona]

There are other ways to spam besides using the "up" key to repeat your last statement.

If you watch some of the spammers, you'll notice that every now and then, their message changes. But it depends on which site the spammer is representing.

Easier fix, imo:

1) Have OnsOnSoft install a "Block List"
2) Make sure there's a beginner tutorial on how to apply the "Block List"

All players put the name of the annoying bots on their own block list and never have to hear from that person again. Then, at a GM/GL's convience (won't need to be so much of a priority anymore), they can come along and ban the little buggers.

How a block list works (in case anyone doesnt know):
1) You open the window (it'll probably be another tab on the community window).
2) You type the exact IGN of the spammer.
3) Click/press "Enter" or click "Ok"
4) Name of spammer is saved on your character so that your chat window permanently filters out all incoming communication from the person who's name you just added to the block list.
5) Spammer can spam without people having to hear him/her/it
6) PROFITZ!!!11!!!111



EDIT: There have been times, btw, where the repeat function is good and saves time spent typing. i.e. Being able to shout something when selling it (even if it is a tad annoying), repeating something b/c the person you were talking to was out of range/changed maps/dc'd, and so on.

[Deedolith]

Yoshi, your suggestion is a block feature in disguise, spammers will find their way around in less time they bypassed X-trap.

Adf1, unfortunatly, spammers don't use the repeat function of the chat box, they use a 3rd party software doing it for them. So no point in disabling it.

[Celtic_Princess]

currently you can repeat what you say indefinately by pressing the up key while in the chat box.

Problem This allows spammers to spam

Solution disable the ability to repeat what you said in normal chat...


P.S. Its also incredibly annoying when i first spawn into a map and my whisper gets filled by spam.

However, this would also make it a lot harder for real users to gain shouting titles like World DJ and Talk Show Host. Which require a lot of shouts in a comparetively(sp?) short span of time.

However, I do like Yoshi's idea. Also, this would lower the number of users who accidentally block their friends while trying to invite them to a party.

[YoshimaruOrona]

Yoshi, your suggestion is a block feature in disguise, spammers will find their way around in less time they bypassed X-trap.

I've seen it work on another game (referring to Florensia MMO).

How will they get around it then; please enlighten me?

Like I said, they don't always use the up function (some bots don't repeat ONE message; sometimes they repeat TWO or THREE). There are macros and such that will allow them to spam, even if the up function is disabled.

[adf1falken]

theres one major flaw w/ ur idea tho. Spammers keep coming up w/ nu names every second. So permanently blocking one would be next to pointless.

To rebutle celt, its a title. I would rather not deal w/ spammers than get a stupid title for having a motor-mouth.

[YoshimaruOrona]

Spammers come up with new names b/c they're constantly being banned by GMs or GLs.

If a spammer is alive and well, they're not going to go create another account, unless the person spamming has 20 computers at his/her disposal to plague roumen with.


EDIT: Block list will mean that GMs/GLs -do not- have to ban bots as often as they do right now. Bots will come up with new names, but not as often, and its still better to deal with that than losing a useful function that spammers dont even need.

[Deedolith]

I've seen it work on another game (referring to Florensia MMO).

How will they get around it then; please enlighten me?

Like I said, they don't always use the up function (some bots don't repeat ONE message; sometimes they repeat TWO or THREE). There are macros and such that will allow them to spam, even if the up function is disabled.
Create a new account with new characters, that's what they're already doing, several times a day.

And yes, they do have bunch of computers available, as they work for a company, and get payed for spamming.

[YoshimaruOrona]

Create a new account with new characters, that's what they're already doing, several times a day.

And yes, they do have bunch of computers available, as they work for a company, and get payed for spamming.

They do it because they get banned -.-

If they didn't get banned, I bet they wouldn't do it anywhere near as often. When was the last time you saw a bot log off?

[adf1falken]

well heres a solution to end all solutions but will never be used. Spammers stay in roumen now only. Soooo have someone stay in roumen and when a spammer pops up (insert massive ban-hammer)

[YoshimaruOrona]

Lol I would luff that job.

[Celtic_Princess]

theres one major flaw w/ ur idea tho. Spammers keep coming up w/ nu names every second. So permanently blocking one would be next to pointless.

And so we come to the heart of the issue. If they continuously make new names...its hard to control. However, those spammers that use 2-3 messages aren't using the Up arrow key...so your solution doesn't cover all the bases either.

To rebutle celt, its a title. I would rather not deal w/ spammers than get a stupid title for having a motor-mouth.

A lot of people enjoy those titles, I myself have announcer just from talking to freinds across a map. While you may title me a 'motor-mouth' I consider myself social. What you may want from the game may be different from what someone else wants...and you have to take that into consideration. The title may just be a title to you but to others its a goal...and just because you don't need it doesn't mean that they should ditch the entire title over your opinion. Its a different perspective, if you want to suggest things you have to get used to seeing other sides to the problem.

Your rebuttal (btw its a noun not a verb) is purely your opinion. As such its not really an arguement against me, its how you feel on the subject. You don't want the title. Others do....the question is how do you solve the problem to please both parties? Or do you write off other players for your own benefit?

[adf1falken]

lol when shouting you cant repeat what you last said. You would have to retype it(so far as i know.) My argument was directed at ppl that sit in a town or map and just keep saying the same thing over and over just for a title.

[adf1falken]

hey there you have it, yoshi wants the job. Someone let her at the spammers to make isya a more peaceful place

[Celtic_Princess]

lol when shouting you cant repeat what you last said. You would have to retype it(so far as i know.) My argument was directed at ppl that sit in a town or map and just keep saying the same thing over and over just for a title.

Actually, you can press the up arrow and then just type in the /s command. Its still a goal for some players though, and a part of the game they enjoy.

[YoshimaruOrona]

You can repeat what you last said in shouts

1) Write "xxxxx" in normal chat.
2) Press up to instantly regain "xxxxx"
3) Press "home"
4) Type "/s " (space included at the end)
5) Press Enter

Voila. Instant shout.

[YoshimaruOrona]

hey there you have it, yoshi wants the job. Someone let her at the spammers to make isya a more peaceful place

I'm a guy >>;;

[adf1falken]

0o0o0o kewl

[adf1falken]

haha whoops

[Deedolith]

Back to the main subject. Any game functionality such as block, lvl limit, banning, X-trap (or similar tools) are proved to not work.

A possible solution I see is to create a unique ID tied to user's hardware, and ban spammers based on this ID. I doubt spammers will change their hardware daily, they won't have the found for it.

[Ian]

What really needs to be done is to fix the spam hacks and set up regex blocking (searches for certain patterns and then blocks them).

[Deedolith]

Using pattern won't work. It's easy to bypass it.
Simply writ a word, and immagine how many times you can write it differently, using uppercase / lowercase / typos / grammar / numbers. With full sentences, the possibilities become infinite.

[O_OInsomniac]

How a block list works (in case anyone doesnt know):
1) You open the window (it'll probably be another tab on the community window).
2) You type the exact IGN of the spammer.
3) Click/press "Enter" or click "Ok"
4) Name of spammer is saved on your character so that your chat window permanently filters out all incoming communication from the person who's name you just added to the block list.
5) Spammer can spam without people having to hear him/her/it
6) PROFITZ!!!11!!!111

Or you could just right click their name and say block. ;D

Also, an easier way to solve this is to make players not say EXACTLY what they say.

For example: If someone says "Hi," they can't say "Hi" again unless they change it like, "hi" or "Hai." I think that would solve some problems. ;)

[YoshimaruOrona]

What really needs to be done is to fix the spam hacks and set up regex blocking (searches for certain patterns and then blocks them).

That could be a problem for the players who use the up function to shout for selling/buying wares or for shouting titles =/


Or you could just right click their name and say block. ;D

Also, an easier way to solve this is to make players not say EXACTLY what they say.

For example: If someone says "Hi," they can't say "Hi" again unless they change it like, "hi" or "Hai." I think that would solve some problems. ;)

Which is fine until you dc and all blocks become reset. >.>

And also until you accidentally block your best friend who happened to whisp you at the same exact time as a spammer.

Spammers will only need two messages to bypass your suggestion. They spam one message, then another, alternating.




A possible solution I see is to create a unique ID tied to user's hardware, and ban spammers based on this ID. I doubt spammers will change their hardware daily, they won't have the found for it.


Er.

Is that even possible over the internet? I know IP address covers ISP, location, etc. But obtaining hardware info? I've never heard of it.

[DetectiveTubbs]

An alternative fix to the spam hackers is one that i have suggested already and which is super easy to program into the code.

If someone is blocked 100 times within a day, outspark investigates that character and disables the account if applicable.

Tho i have to admit there are a lot fewer spam hackers these days. Compared do when i came up with the idea.

[lenore_lurks]

Outspark are working on a solution to this problem.

The only town I haven't seen spam bots in is Uruga.

I'm not sure if the chat titles would become an issue because you do have to shout them in order to obtain them, and I've never seen a bot shout. Can they even do it? Normal chat and whisper is all I've ever recieved :3

The bots are real people working for companies to sell their products and services. They don't care if one gets banned, they just make another. It's not hard to do (making a character that is).

[annashai]

EU Fiesta has no selling bots at all. Don't know how they managed this, but I'm sure somewhere on the forums it says all about it.

[lenore_lurks]

That's good news. I wonder if OS will take on the same measures they have, whatever they are.

[kidwithcrayonz]

Er.

Is that even possible over the internet? I know IP address covers ISP, location, etc. But obtaining hardware info? I've never heard of it.

Yes, it already exists. It's acalled a MAC address. Every computer, wireless router, and modem has a MAC address. It's the only reliable way of identifying the actual location of a user anymore. IPs can be changed simply by resetting your modem, using a proxy, or an IP mask. Hardware bans are essentially the end all ban because MAC addresses are unique to each machine. Take out that machine and you can't use it on the banned application or website ever again. Someone would have to constantly buy new hardware to get around it. The problem, though, is that MAC addresses are hard to get if you aren't connected to that machine and/or local network, which makes banning them difficult. Who knows, maybe sometime in the future, a cheap and viable way to ban MAC addresses will be available to more than the government and major corporations with sensitive database targets for hackers.

[YoshimaruOrona]

If someone is blocked 100 times within a day, outspark investigates that character and disables the account if applicable.

Tho i have to admit there are a lot fewer spam hackers these days. Compared do when i came up with the idea.

Idk if you've ever tried making a second account before ... but it's a very fast process. Takes 2-3 minutes if you're familiar with the process. So if OutSpark were to disable the account of a bot, then the person behind the computer would take notice, create a new account (which takes a fraction of the time that it would take OS to "investigate"), and get back in Roumen/Elderine.

And 100 blocks probably isn't the best number anyway. Anybody who abuses the up function to try and sell something through normal chat because they don't know any better could risk being banned like that. Hopefully OS wouldn't make that kind of mistake, but the potential for it to happen is there.

What I think we should look into ... is how spam bots are getting to Elderine. That, logically speaking, shouldn't even be happening. There are monsters that should be 1-hitting new characters before they make it to Eldy, and the run from Roumen to Elderine isn't exactly short. Even if spammers get paid to do this, time = money, and I don't think they would spend 5-20 minutes trying to get from one town to another everytime they get banned. I think they might have an account somewhere feeding them elderine scrolls, possibly.


Outspark are working on a solution to this problem.

The only town I haven't seen spam bots in is Uruga.

I'm not sure if the chat titles would become an issue because you do have to shout them in order to obtain them, and I've never seen a bot shout. Can they even do it? Normal chat and whisper is all I've ever recieved :3

Bots used to shout when Epith was young. I'm guessing that they had the guy behind the keyboard make the char lv6, then they added the macro or w/e it is that they used. Then the bot would spam like bots love to spam, except it would be one shout every 5.7 seconds, or w/e the exact number was.

However, since the people behind the bots figured out the whisper spam (I don't exactly understand how it works either ><), they've preferred it over the shout spam. It was much less noticeable by GMs, it got to everybody, and they could spam as hard as they wanted.



EU Fiesta has no selling bots at all. Don't know how they managed this, but I'm sure somewhere on the forums it says all about it.

Nice =D

Makes me wonder why the different Fiesta staffs don't talk to each other =x Or if they do talk, why we don't get much info as to what the other Fiesta's have, except thru our own players who happen to tread the other games/forums.


Yes, it already exists. It's acalled a MAC address. Every computer, wireless router, and modem has a MAC address. It's the only reliable way of identifying the actual location of a user anymore. IPs can be changed simply by resetting your modem, using a proxy, or an IP mask. Hardware bans are essentially the end all ban because MAC addresses are unique to each machine. Take out that machine and you can't use it on the banned application or website ever again. Someone would have to constantly buy new hardware to get around it. The problem, though, is that MAC addresses are hard to get if you aren't connected to that machine and/or local network, which makes banning them difficult. Who knows, maybe sometime in the future, a cheap and viable way to ban MAC addresses will be available to more than the government and major corporations with sensitive database targets for hackers.

Thats scary ._., For the reason placed in boldface.

But that would be a good solution, if we could use it.

[Miazma]

However, this would also make it a lot harder for real users to gain shouting titles like World DJ and Talk Show Host. Which require a lot of shouts in a comparetively(sp?) short span of time.

However, I do like Yoshi's idea. Also, this would lower the number of users who accidentally block their friends while trying to invite them to a party.

If real users are rude enough to go for World DJ and Talk Show Host titles on maps where it would seriously affect peoples game play they deserve to be blocked. I got mine in the silver mine and YES the dam dust that kept blowing up nearly choked me a dozen times :P

I dont understand why anyone has a problem with spammers, right click their username in the chat box and click on block and bam they are gone. I have heard rumours that this is only effective for a few days but as I still have people I blocked months ago on the list I know this isnt the case.

[Ian]

Using pattern won't work. It's easy to bypass it.
Simply writ a word, and immagine how many times you can write it differently, using uppercase / lowercase / typos / grammar / numbers. With full sentences, the possibilities become infinite.
Not if you add the websites to the patterns. Only thing they can change is the period to comma and maybe add spaces.

That could be a problem for the players who use the up function to shout for selling/buying wares or for shouting titles =/
I meant a predefined pattern search, not one that blocks anything that repeats.

That's how the badwords filter works. It uses regex to find the listed badwords spread within the chat and automatically replaces them with asterisks. It appears buggy because I don't think there are ways to list safe words/phrases.

[omoidake]

One solution could be to not allow URLs to be posted in the chat window. There are ways to trim down the string that is submitted to the chat window to check for people adding extra spaces and such to try and disguise it as not being a URL. From there it's just creating algorithms as they come up with new ways to display the URL in the chat.

[Deedolith]

Is that even possible over the internet? I know IP address covers ISP, location, etc. But obtaining hardware info? I've never heard of it.
Yes it is possble, not only with MAC adress, but any hardware plugged on your computer. Just look up in Windows's registry, there are enough datas about your hardware there.
EU Fiesta has no selling bots at all. Don't know how they managed this, but I'm sure somewhere on the forums it says all about it.
EU Fiesta has no spaming / selling / farming bots because botters arn't interrested by the little EU community (compared to the US one).

[kakeru444]

EU Fiesta has no spaming / selling / farming bots because botters arn't interrested by the little EU community (compared to the US one).

Wat u trying to say about Eu >.> thats my homeladn your talking about >:I