Rogues, the class with no advantages? [Archive]

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Rakushune

10-05-2007, 10:57 PM

After having played a Rogue for up to level 28, I've come to the conclusion that the rogue does not hold a unique advantage that all the other classes in the game has.

For example-

Warriors are given higher defense through their specific armor, better HP distribution per level and have generally harder hitting weapons for the most physical damage possible.

Mages have very good ranged attacks and a snare(ice) to keep the enemies from reaching them making them quick and effective killers who don't have to take any damage to kill monsters.

Acolytes have their healing ability and paired with their ranged magic attack, they make for a self sufficient class(better to party with another dps but does well by itself anyway).

Rogues on the other hand are supposedly the master of speedy attacks and dodge. However, the way the game is balanced, it is a must to use your special attack between every attack which makes the fast(and quite weak) melee attacks obsolete. Rogues are suppose to have a high chance to dodge enemies but even with 30 points into agility and 15+1 dodge rating, enemies of the same level will hit the rogue over 85-90% of the time.

There's no distinction from when you dodge and the enemy misses and add to the fact that Rogues don't have a high HP or defense and their Dodge is completely useless so it makes killing monsters a chore or spamming healing potions to keep themselves up and mana potions so they can actually do mediocore damage by using their skills in between attacks.

As you can see, while all the other classes thrive with their advantage the two supposed saving grace of the rogue(attack speed and dodge) are broken and obsolete.

Please change dodge into a more effective utility for survival and change the attack speed of the melee swings not be on cue with special attacks so that leveling a rogue will be smoother experience and justify the existence of the class itself with its own unique style.

Kaleidoscope

10-06-2007, 12:48 AM

I find Rouges to be sitting ducks. ...Literally. I spend a lot of time sitting to recover HP between battles. I would like to see some of these suggestions taken into consideration so that not as much HP is drained during a single battle with something the same level as you. x:

almona

10-06-2007, 03:00 AM

I see your point and i agree. Right now i am lvl 28 and i can kill probably 2 to 3 monsters without having to heal that skill Blind side really helps to storm the monster with scare which you will kill the monster in no time but having to get to lvl 66 for the second shadow class Felon its kind of a long way and i thought that the assasin job was after rogue and it is not, but hopefully they will change the way the stats are for the rogue which is a cool job to have if they make it right.

emertank33

10-06-2007, 05:16 AM

Sylvine

10-06-2007, 05:58 AM

As I just got my acolyte job, I can assure You it ain't so easy for acolytes in the beginning as well. We cannot heal ourselves effectively in battle ( since we have to retarget then ), and our first heal spell at least is petty to say the most: Heals ~30 hp. Our ranged attack - illusion quake - is quite okay, slowing down the enemy and soing some 50ish damage, but it consumes a lot of mana, so after each fight, we have to sit down for mana or drink potions like hell.

Soo, be patient, it'll get better. It has to! =)

~Sylv

shesmycain

10-06-2007, 05:59 AM

chill will ya, like u all said u guys arent high lvl yet, dont u remember the Ragnarok thief class,it only started dodging stuff well at 40+, so im guessing its the same deal for the rogue class here!! juz my opinion

But remember that RO thief has the passive skill "Double attack" to help end fights faster unlike SOS thieves that depends on "scare" which is a mediocre active skill. I barely even use normal attacks on SOS. Just spam scare till the monster dies.

classyeskimo

10-06-2007, 06:52 AM

not only do they have double attack, but thieves in ragnarok also have increase dodge, which is a major help as well.

Fatalist

10-06-2007, 06:55 AM

Rogues should get a +dodge skill! I haven't played, but it saddens me to see that rogues are getting hit that often! It should be more around 40-50% of the time at least... I don't know if they'll change it, because the game is already out in Japan, and if they didn't change that kind of thing on that one, they won't here(probably).

Ettibby

10-06-2007, 09:32 AM

guys where in the dam closed beta not everything is done to be honnest very little would have been done yet.

anyway maby the rogue sucks but later they might own like at assassin everyone will complain and go "lol ner nerf nerf nerf lololol assassins overpowerd lmao thats a lamer hax" like everyone does every second on wow.

zakari

10-06-2007, 09:54 AM

Rakushune

10-06-2007, 02:11 PM

People forget that skills in this game can crit. Plus it's obvious that rogues get better at higher lvl. Not all stats and skills work as intended at this moment. Even for fighters it's not that easy.

That's just my point though, rogues don't get better as they level up. The increase in Dodge does nothing and putting points into Str isn't as effective as it is for a warrior.

Or perhaps are you proposing that all rogue players should wait till 45 so they can change jobs to archer when they'll actually become useful? Or maybe level 66 for their second class?

This thread should ring true to anyone that is leveling a rogue right now, everyone else that posted here that don't have at least a 26+ rogue won't be able to fully understand its problems.

Oh and did I forget that rogues can't learn their level 26 skill Level 1 Accuracy?

hazeofacid

10-06-2007, 02:18 PM

Yeah, I've leveled my Rogue to only 18, and then kind of stopped for now. I was thinking that only going around 9 pow, and the rest AGI would be sufficent enough in the dodging department, crit, and attack speed. But that doesn't seem to be the case. Taking into what everyone said here, into consideration I agree with it :). Im sure though GMs will take it into consideration and the Dex Stat will be fixed. Thus making Rogues, viable.

lplove

10-06-2007, 02:19 PM

I completely agree with Rakushune. Rogues are utterly useless for they lack special abilties like the other classes. And I also second that claim concerning the Level 1 Accuracy skill.
The only way rogues can even stay alive is by wasting all of their resources on potions.

And of course, upon leveling up AGI few traits actually grow, most remain and those that do take a lot of time to actually grow.

Oh, except for the poison thing... but it only lasts for like, 3 seconds.

neigiel214

10-06-2007, 02:38 PM

maybe dodge is only good for pvp? that's just a guess =p

Kaleidoscope

10-06-2007, 03:01 PM

Rakushune

10-06-2007, 03:08 PM

Kaleidoscope

10-06-2007, 04:00 PM

I binded my left mouse button to /sit.

It makes leveling oh-so much easier!

Yeah. xD; I use the page down key, that works well too. x3; It's a pathetic cycle, beat up one or two monsters, sit for twice as long as it took to beat up the monster...over and over and over. xd;

Vilana

10-06-2007, 07:52 PM

MoloMowChow

10-06-2007, 08:26 PM

I can also agree with this topic. I have a lvl 23 Rogue and have yet to see anything good about Rogue yet.

I'm currently forced to put all my points of Rogue into POW...but even then it's hard.

Riuer

10-06-2007, 09:45 PM

I can also agree with this topic. I have a lvl 23 Rogue and have yet to see anything good about Rogue yet.

I'm currently forced to put all my points of Rogue into POW...but even then it's hard.

Really? I just hit 21 and got blindsight. I love it. The enemy can't hit you if they can't attack back.

Ettibby

10-06-2007, 10:02 PM

ah well im still going rogue. ill group with my friend when OB comes ot =D

Kaleidoscope

10-07-2007, 02:03 AM

Blind Sight is good but if you can't manage to kill the thing while it's stopped then you're still gonna get hit. When you're fighting bigger monsters you are still fighting half the battle normally. So it's a bonus but not actually a sure thing. Also, it has quite a cool down so you can't use it twice in battle.

Though you're right, it is very handy. :3 Level 2 Rapid Step is also quite fun for zipping around with.

Idunno. I'm level 27 right now, and have been fighting in a party for most of the night. I found it quite enjoyable and for once my rogue seemed powerful. My Scare was hitting as high as the mages, and for ONCE I was running out of MP before I was running out of HP. Of course this is because between all the stun spells and skills the monsters weren't able to fight back buuuut....

It seems that Rouges shine best when in parties and not so well when they're by themselves? Yet my character IS improving. I hope that by the time that he reaches Felon he will have continue to improve until he flat out pwned. P:

It might be a...wear through several levels of grinding and torment, but be rewarded for it in the end, type deal?

talon93

10-07-2007, 02:32 AM

Its possible that the rogue is supposed to have hard beggining and just become all powerful when has increased lvls.Who knows???

0_____________________0

jaketti

10-07-2007, 03:16 AM

I just hit lvl31 with my rogue and got a skill called Doping which increases your dodge rate and you'll actually begin to dodge things. Other than that party party party as much as possible.

almona

10-07-2007, 05:03 AM

you guys know something Pow doesn't really do much for rogues as just putting to agil pow adds to attack power not as much but it is something but agil adds to attack speed evasion attack power and critical so adding to pow is just going to help wearing some armor that may require to wear it, so my opinion of playing
rogue is i have Men +3 which my critical is 3 now. Right now i am lvl 29 and i currently solo in Augilas Gorge and those huge poyopoyo they miss a lot so is really not that hard to play as a rogue and now i heard of a rogue lvl 36 that hits for 200+ with the new skill that is kind of nice damage for a so called Disadvantage job some people call it.

ElPerro Rogue LV 29

Rakushune

10-07-2007, 10:03 AM

I hit level 31 yesterday and I have to admit, Doping is a great skill.

I actually notice the mobs missing me and sometimes doing 1-2 damage instead of full damage. I'm guessing that's like a "scratch" attack where they miss but hit you a little bit.

Leveling has become a lot easier than before but still, to think that you'd have to wait for your 5th skill(accuracy is 4th and still doesn't work) to have a good progress at leveling is a bit... silly.

I plan on changing my job to archer when I hit 45(sometime this year) since I think this game yield in favor of ranged attackers, I'll see how that works out.

cornRipper

10-09-2007, 01:34 AM

I plan on changing my job to archer when I hit 45(sometime this year) since I think this game yield in favor of ranged attackers, I'll see how that works out.

I agree on the agonizing trip to lvl 45 is going to be hard and switching to archer is definetly what I'm doing since In just about every MMORPG I've played I my main is an archer. but this game is still in beta testing so I should get better for the rogues and well as the over all game.

iN sOMe cULtuREs, wHaT i dO Is nORmaL.

Morrik

10-09-2007, 01:42 AM

Rogues only have one special ability that is exceptionally useful and that they get to use A LOT. I screencapped this rare and amazing ability for emphasis. O:

http://www.fervid-notion.net/images/storage/roguespecialability.jpg
....c.c

I met you today just saying hi

and yes i totally agree with his thread it seems Outspark downplays evasion in both their games though i hope Archer is Usefull i'm lvl 18 now and will be playing untill i get to45

Kaleidoscope

10-09-2007, 02:11 AM

I met you today just saying hi

and yes i totally agree with his thread it seems Outspark downplays evasion in both their games though i hope Archer is Usefull i'm lvl 18 now and will be playing untill i get to45

Yup. xD; That was the sarcastic sitting remark I talking about. x3;

I had been adding to power. D: I'll admit it. And I was frustrated because it wasn't working well. And as I started adding more to agility my Rouge started to rock a lot. And now I'm happy with my level 33 rouge.

And so I took all his stats off power except the 6 needed to hold his shield, and amped them all into agility. And now he pwns even more. x3 I think rouges are a good class. They need some work but they're showing a lot of potential. Their advantage most definitely is their agility. From their evasion to their attack rate, to their ability to run away from mobs quickly.

......8D; I'm getting good at the running away bit now. Almost as good at that as I am with sitting. xD

And apparently, they have a NEW SECRET UNIQUE SPECIAL ABILITY. :0 That Rakushune was so kind to demonstrate in game today! I have once again manged to catch this ONE OF A KIND ability IN SCREENCAP. O:

CLICK HERE PLZ ITS TOO BIG TO PUT FULL OUT AND IM TOO LAZY TO CROP. xD (http://i20.tinypic.com/2khfgk.jpg)
xDD; I'm not sure HOW it happened. But thanks to the wonders of glitching and disconnection, Rakushune managed to create a DOPPLEGANGER. I wonder what effect this amazing ability will have in battle!? Only time will tell. o:

Rakushune

10-09-2007, 11:43 AM

And apparently, they have a NEW SECRET UNIQUE SPECIAL ABILITY. :0 That Rakushune was so kind to demonstrate in game today! I have once again manged to catch this ONE OF A KIND ability IN SCREENCAP. O:

CLICK HERE PLZ ITS TOO BIG TO PUT FULL OUT AND IM TOO LAZY TO CROP. xD (http://i20.tinypic.com/2khfgk.jpg)
xDD; I'm not sure HOW it happened. But thanks to the wonders of glitching and disconnection, Rakushune managed to create a DOPPLEGANGER. I wonder what effect this amazing ability will have in battle!? Only time will tell. o:

Haha, so that's what it looked like.

Pretty interesting. I wonder if that doppelganger is there today.

gerbilize

10-09-2007, 08:02 PM

LOL ... Wait until you hit level 32 on your rogue and you start to gather + gear and you have your doping... I evade about 1 in 5 shots and 1 in 5 also only hits for 1-4 damage depending on the level of the monsters I am fighting at the time.. Yes spamming your attacks can be rather annoying but all classes basically have to spam skills the game is skill based tring to fight off plain ole swings is nearly impossible EXCEPT for the rogue once doping is aquired as its description is WRONG it lasts for 60 seconds not 6.. it also not only increases your evasion but your attack speed as well... also remember that weight can affect your attack speed so if your even close to the weight being in blinking red it could be gimping your character