Which classes should be able to run and cast?

[YoshimaruOrona]

After playing each of the classes for a reasonable length of time now, I've come to notice that the June 9th patch, which most of us hated for screwing up our animations, gave us something we didn't have before.

The ability to cast skills while running.

However, recently, I've discovered that mages are at a loss because they cannot run while casting their skills. Which I thought was odd, because clerics can cast while running. Archers can also cast the majority of their skills while in motion. Despite balance concepts, fighters can cast their skills while running too.

So why is it that mages cannot do it?

The poll is multiple choice, so please select every class that you believe should be able to run and cast. I'll wait for others to start posting before I place my opinions in the discussion.

[Tamlinari]

There will be people that will make the argument that Mages were intentionally made to be that way for game balance but in actuality it is probably just something that was over looked and then forgotten about like the stone capacity issue.

[THr3eS01di3Rs]

Well heres the thing.

Archers- Their DoTs have really low initial damage, and if you couldnt cast them while running the mob would have aready hit you a dozen times before you could get all the poisons set. That dosnt sound like a kiting class to me. So archers NEED their running skills. Without them we would lose our ability to solo.

Clerics- They only have two attack skills so if they can run and use them it dosnt matter still dosnt do to much damage. Their heals are also defensive so thats not going to hurt anyone will it?

Fighters- Massly over powered...their skills should have cast times lol =p Anyways though they need to be able to mock on the run, and if they couldnt use their skills while running then they wouldnt be able to stun us archers.

Mages- Super powerful, the reason why they cant run with all their skills is because fighters would virtually be unable to kill them...ever. If they could use all their skills while running fighters wouldnt be able to gain 1 meter on them before they would be dead. Thats why only a couple skills can be used on the run.

The running skills I think are balenced as they are but I REALLY think that mage skill cast times should be lowered and the cast time on magic blast be almost instant. Caue levels 1-59 its still hard to beat a fighter even with full +9 gear.

[YoshimaruOrona]

(Long post, my apologies)



Alright, since nobody else seems to wanna post, I'll throw my thoughts out there.

Archers are light, carry relatively light equipment, and specialize damage over time. In pvp, time is a huge factor. So the fact that all of their poisons are run and cast, whilst their immediate damage skills (aimed shot and power shot) are stand and cast ... Both of them check out fine with me, imo.

Clerics, as you said, only have 2 offensive skills. It wouldn't make a huge difference whether they can run and cast or not, unless of course they're able to finish the job within use of those 2 skills, which unless there's a huge level margin, tends to not be the case. And of course, healing skills don't make a difference offensively, but defensively, it means something. Being able to run from an assaulting mage or archer or fighter will mean nothing if you have to stop every 2 seconds to heal yourself. So again, that checks out fine with me.

Fighters versus mages. I was trying to maintain a neutral concern across all classes but my focus was really here.

In the realm of wiz mage and pre-wiz mage pvp against a fighter, having to stop your movement to be able to cast offensive skills makes a huge difference, as we noted with archers. However, if we were to say, take ice bolt, and turn it into a cast and run skill, would that throw off the balance? I do agree, making most mage skills cast and run will make them near un-killable. But to have to stop for almost every skill is insane.

At the least, couldn't be allowed for the pre-wiz mage skills to be cast and run? I dont think that would cause any extreme changes in balance, and it would help to resolve the severe mage gb's that happen in certain pvp kq's.

Or. My other thought was putting fighter skills back at stand and cast (with the exception of slice and dice, as well as power hit) so that they're on equal footing with mages. Fighters being able to run and cast doesn't just effect their ability to kill mages, it also effects their ability to kill kiting archers. If they miss a deva or concussive charge, they can simply spam skills while running beside the archer or mage until the archer/mage is dead.

That seems unbalanced to me. If a mage stops to attack, a fighter will definitely catch them, and obliterate them if they can survive the first few hits. If a mage runs, a fighter will catch up sooner or later, and whether he/she successfully stuns or not, the fighter still has the ability to kill while the mage is still helpless.

My mage, who is level 42, just got viciously mauled in a pvp kq because I couldn't do anything but run from the 2-4 people who were constantly chasing me. Even when it was one person, I still had to flee, because if I stopped I would be dead. So fine, I run. What happens if I try to cast anything? I'm stunned and viciously beaten to a pulp. If I don't run, a fighter eventually catches up and spams me with his cast and run skills. Archers are, in the meanwhile, cutting corners so that they can keep slamming me with instant damage skills and DoT skills. The clerics couldn't kill me unless I stopped, so that's not my worry. But the fact that archers and fighters can destroy me and I can't defend myself is a little ridiculous, imo. Any 35-49 mage that isn't invested in sparkcash or protected by t3 scrolls/buffs suffers the same beatings.

(And if anyone's curious, I'm singling out fighters and mages because they are the "powerhouses" of Fiesta. Archers have balance, clerics have balance, fighters and mages need some review, imo.)

[mehe25]

Cause they 'Think' mages are to powerful for run and cast so there animations are longer....yea right fighters even outdamage them XD.

For clerics is just a lil' bonus, they only have a broken skill and a melee skill that doesn't do tons of damage.

Fighters...when I run from them in a straight line and they trail behind it looks as if little by little he's getting closer and with the ability to run and cast he kills you while running!

Archers, well there best quality is solo so its a big thing for them.

[Zh0ngGu0ZhiZa0]

Fighters- Massly over powered...their skills should have cast times lol =p Anyways though they need to be able to mock on the run, and if they couldnt use their skills while running then they wouldnt be able to stun us archers.
+9 gear.

devastate cant be used while running, u have to be standing still for it to start animation.

and if all mages could cast while running, theyd pretty much destroy melee classes (slow and cast all spells, repeat)

[equis]

Actually mages do have cast while run...
Lightning Bolt+Blast and Mana Burn are cast while run, we also have 3 slow spells (including nova), and we have chain cast so one of those can hit twice.

But after 60 you really don't need cast while run because all you do is aoe in PvE and in PvP mages don't do so well until they get fear and stifle anyway.

[YoshimaruOrona]

Fighters...when I run from them in a straight line and they trail behind it looks as if little by little he's getting closer and with the ability to run and cast he kills you while running!


Thats part of my concern right there. Half of what fighters do while casting and running shouldn't even be physically possible. Like I said, it doesnt just effect their ability to kill mages. They can also destroy archers WHILE THEY KITE with this adaptation.


devastate cant be used while running, u have to be standing still for it to start animation.

and if all mages could cast while running, theyd pretty much destroy melee classes (slow and cast all spells, repeat)

Ok, you have to stop moving to use devastate and pray that it stuns the opponent. This is how it should be, which is good.

However, there's concussive charge, power hit, slice and dice, (name of defense debuff skill), bone slicer, vampiric strike (?), all of which can be cast while running.

Which is ridiculous. Way too overpowered, and it defeats the point of even putting a mage/archer against a fighter.

I'm not asking for EVERY single spell to be cast and run for mages. Maybe just magic missile and fire bolt. It's not fair that if we try to take the offensive, we're dead. And while mages are an offensive class, it's completely moronic that they have no defense. You can call fear a defensive skill if you like, but it only lasts how long? 5 seconds? Whereas stun can last up to 8 or 9 seconds in duration.

The thing is, mages and fighters are both powerhouses, yet they're unbalanced. The fact that a mage has to wait 60 levels until they get fear to -maybe- have a chance at PvP is ridiculous. The fact that a mage isn't a threat until they get stifle at whatever level they get it at is ridiculous.

Both are damage dealers.
Why should one be able to run and cast, and the other be kept under awkward circumstances?

Actually mages do have cast while run...
Lightning Bolt+Blast and Mana Burn are cast while run, we also have 3 slow spells (including nova), and we have chain cast so one of those can hit twice.

But after 60 you really don't need cast while run because all you do is aoe in PvE and in PvP mages don't do so well until they get fear and stifle anyway.

How long is the cd for each of those running skills? I know lightning bolt is 15 seconds. Mana burn has a 2 minute cd so I dont know why you even bothered to mention it.

They're un-spamable. Thats the problem.

3 slow spells that you have to stop for a good 2 or 3 seconds to be able to cast. Then you have to hope that the slow debuff takes effect. If it doesn't, you just saved your pursuer 3 seconds of running.

"Dont do well until they get fear and stifle anyway."

And ... thats not a problem?

[DF001]

I say only archers are worth it. If their ability to ''run and cast'' is taken then their class is even more ruined.

[xavier_swift]

The only skills a cleric can cast while running are the healing ones, and it makes perfect sense when you think about how many people do AOE parties nowadays.

[TwinBlade887]

If mages were able to spam their lower level spells without stopping... You'll just see a whole bunch of mages kiting just using Magic Missle[1].. They'd get hit less than an archer because even with Nature's Mist you still sometimes stop moving @-@(fix that). I don't think it'd be too much of a problem if some skills with higher CDs were able to be cast while running.

I agree that fighter's run and cast should be taken away though. Not fair to kiting PvP archers D: Once they get close enough to deva, it doesn't really matter how much you run because the animation still goes through.

Clerics are able to run and cast their healing spells, which is good. Gives a way for archers to actually be in a duo, since it would suck having to stop to heal while running then stop mid-animation to try to get back into range xD

[YoshimaruOrona]

Ok, so everybody pretty much thinks archers should be able to run and cast. No argument there.



Clerics being able to run and cast means they can help out kiting archers and are able to defend themselves while on the run from their opponents. There's a near 50/50 vote, so there's room for discussion on that, though my personal opinion is that clerics should have the offensive skills taken away from their run and cast options.

If you've ever been a squishy in 35-49 pvp kq, you'll notice that even clerics get gutsy and start trying to kill you. Which isn't too difficult if the squishy being attacked isn't careful.



Majority of voters seem to think fighters shouldn't be able to run and cast. For those of you who think fighters should be able to run and cast, please post why. It's hard to have a discussion when nobody's defending fighters, yet they're voting for fighters.



Mages are where most of the uncertainty is. Some think its unfair that everything thats useful is stand and cast, however, the argument is that if it wasn't that way, then mages would destroy everybody in pvp.

So let's reflect:

Mages have 3 run and cast skills. Each of them have a 15second cd or longer (mana burn has a 2 minute cd >>). None of these skills have any effect on the player besides hp damage (aside from mana burn). HP stones have a 10second cd. Do you see why mages are taken so lightly before they get fear and stifle?

Suggestions on any way to pose a minor threat to others as a mage on the run? A fleeing mage is basically prey that's on the run; as this game currently stands. At least a fleeing archer can poison the target...


EDIT: Keep in mind that "being chased" doesn't always mean that only 1 person is chasing the mage.

[allyyCORE]

leave the run/cast option to archers. don't mess with balancing!
fighters can do it to some degree; mages as well; clerics have run/heal...

...I think we're all good!

[YoshimaruOrona]

I'll post a vid in the near future showing fighters abusing run and cast.

I'll also post a vid in the near future showing the fraility of a fleeing mage.

[Takuya98]

reason why fighters want fighter is that they want them to be more overpowered
Archers should have kitings for reason already stated
Clerics Should have some run and cast a little
Mages shouldn't be able to cast while running because when they get their awesome spells later all the other classes=toast

[Eternal_Doom]

reason why fighters want fighter is that they want them to be more overpowered
Archers should have kitings for reason already stated
Clerics Should have some run and cast a little
Mages shouldn't be able to cast while running because when they get their awesome spells later all the other classes=toast

As a mage (below 60 but oh well =P ) I can completely agree that they shouldnt be able to cast Nova and inferno on the run lol, but they should be able to defend themselves with some sort of useful Cast n' Run spell Like the Ice skills which can slow down, or even better yet... Give lightning its stun back ¬_¬ . Mages will get an actual advantage at lvl 110, as long as OS dont remove it -_-" With the spell called blink Which allows them to teleport to the location of another character. Anyway, yeah mages should have quite a few skills that should be able to be used on the run, like fire bolt, its not spammable at all and its got just enough kick to give us a bit of an advantage in certain situations.

Archers should definately be able to use most of their skills on the run, 'nuff said.

Clerics attacks are weak so I dont really mind them using their melee attack skills on the run and healing whilst running? Who was the genius who invented that?:) It really helps in KQs like robo or in archer/cleric AoE duos

Fighters, no, just no -_- Only mock and kick should be able to be used whilst running

Oh and mana burns CD is 3 mins just so you know D=

[A_geezy]

I don't see why we can't run-cast just about all the skills. It really does make sense that the melee classes have cast while running skills- watch an epic battle movie... take Troy for instance... all the dudes were running around beating on eachother (:D lolol if that didn't sound homosecsual i dont know what will :p).

Archers, again, I don't know why all their skills aren't run-cast... with the exception of maybe multi-shot just based off the current graphic for it. The rest of them should be un-nerfed. (reference Robin Hood for this one... archers run and shoot, it's what they do).

Mages... I don't see why dudes couldn't cast spells and **** while on the run... they did all during the inquisition O.o.

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Now, about nerfing a class to make it easier on another... NEVER!! >:0 stupid stupid... and more stupid.

The problem isn't that one class is overpowered, it's that one ore more of the other classes are lacking. See it that way and then make your arguments, then this game will be overall more fun, as apposed to more lame.

[Kay_Dragon]

i think that more mage skills have to be fixed because we should be able to cast more skills while running, not all of course, but at least some...

[YoshimaruOrona]

I don't see why we can't run-cast just about all the skills. It really does make sense that the melee classes have cast while running skills- watch an epic battle movie... take Troy for instance... all the dudes were running around beating on eachother (:D lolol if that didn't sound homosecsual i dont know what will :p).

Archers, again, I don't know why all their skills aren't run-cast... with the exception of maybe multi-shot just based off the current graphic for it. The rest of them should be un-nerfed. (reference Robin Hood for this one... archers run and shoot, it's what they do).

Mages... I don't see why dudes couldn't cast spells and **** while on the run... they did all during the inquisition O.o.

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Now, about nerfing a class to make it easier on another... NEVER!! >:0 stupid stupid... and more stupid.

The problem isn't that one class is overpowered, it's that one ore more of the other classes are lacking. See it that way and then make your arguments, then this game will be overall more fun, as apposed to more lame.

First off, your post = LULZ on a degree of 1337 THOUSAND

I, personally, wouldn't nerf any particular class, just because that would suck for the players who love the nerf-ed class, and it just becomes more flames and bleh. (I still think run and cast on fighters is suspect...)

And yet, people go to the extreme and are imagining mages running and casting inferno and nova and ... I stare at the screen, and just drool at the pure stupid for a minute. I partially blame myself for the ambiguity in the topic/original post, but my salivary glands still react nonethelesss.

And then after cleanup, I go back to being gb'd on my mage in pvp kq ~.~

[A_geezy]

RAWRR LAZ EATS MAGES AND ARCHER... but that's because my gears have 30+end/dex/&spr... has nothing to do with the class being overpowered. I still suspect two things about the whole issue:

-Demographically there are way more fighters than all the other classes combimed (just an observation). This would mean that if there are 7 fighters in PvP kq, there is a 47.something% chance that a fighter will come in first.

-Fighter's tend to have the better gears... idk why or how, but on Apoline fighter equips commonly have near-maxed stats. While other classes (and their respective players behind the keyboard) tend to take equips for granted. Case-in-point: RamiroCD and one other mage (i can't remember names) in PvP KQ. They had maxed (or very gawdly) int/dex/end gears, I couldnt kill them because I could only hit them 4/5 or 5/6 times... Well equipped archers are even tougher *thinks Snuggles and Rapisu <3*

And one other thought (ok more like a mental masturbation session... read if you want);
***about "Cash Shop Hoes..." At level 69 in my last PvP KQ my extender & crit suit had expired, so I was there with my 3.1k hp and 1.8k sp... without stacking up those crits I couldnt really kill anybody (+9 GOC Axe >.>).

So IDK about the whole class being overpowered... definitely when I was stacking 4 & 5 crits in a row & sportin' 4.5k hp i was... but is that really only the whole class? idk... Apo's KP leader is (or was) a mage... iToy is legit :D

[ahtai]

I really don't like fighter can run and cast. I like it before I can click where run and click on mob hit and than just keep on hitting. Now my fighter over run to the other side get more mob than I intend and have to run back to hit the original one I want. It is very annoying to control.

Archer basically are run and cast type of I think everyone agree.

Cleric we need all our heal run and cast, remember mini dragon, everyone is running or like in spider we want to heal out teamate while running, but we cannot stop ourself because the train after us just will kill us before we try. Revive is one I really want able to run and cast too, there are times I try to revive people while being mobbed. Oh well I success revive that person but. I died at the end of animation because stone and pot on cooldown and I cannot trigger heal or the animation will be cancelled.

Mage use lower level skill to kite for a long time. I have work with a lot of mages done that and I also do that on my own mage too.

[niku_monsta]

Archers have to be able to run and cast, no argument there. Their purpose in this game would be defeated if that is taken away from them.

Clerics should have their heal skills as run and cast, for assisting archers and parties moving in a field. It's really quite difficult if we don't have this feature.

Mages should have a couple of run and cast skills, for example Lightning Bolt and Ice Blast, since they will give the paper mages a chance to survive. But besides these two, AoE skills should not (of course, never ever) have run and cast feature. All other classes would turn to toast.

For fighters, the only skills that I agree should have run and cast would be Mock, Snearing Kick, Demoralizing Hit and Vitality. They are not exactly offensive skills, but they still are effective in giving fighters a bit more power. As we all know, fighters have many instant cast offensive skills which can stun/decrease damage/accuracy. If these skills are enabled to be cast while running, this class would become more overpowered than it already is, hence defeating the concepts of kiting and slowing down + AoE chain entirely.

Just my two cents :P