The Way of the Cleric

[Syrlith]

I've seen cleric tanks, I've seen cleric supporters. I've seen plenty of clerics, but I wonder, do they believe in it?
I'm one of those people who believes in the cheesy morals of a cleric, and was wondering if there are others. My intentions of good will towards all are the reasons for my class.

I speak of morals, kindness and chivalry in the most ancient of terms. Where helping others is the only true way to help oneself.
Refusing to use the hateful blade in favor of the defensive blunt weaponry, etc.

There is plenty more to put up there, but little need, if you understand my meaning.

[Drium]

I think the primary role of a cleric is to heal, and therefore they should build themselves with spirit in mind, if they have any notion of teamwork and playing their class right.

They make amazing emergency tanks if necessary, so I wouldn't spit on a half-spirit half-end cleric. (I've had multiple KQs where the cleric was 5+ levels above the highest fighter and thus had to tank; it was never a bad thing, honestly.)

Under no circumstances should a cleric ponder any other stat build/role, however. Full STR? You can make your pitiful damage slightly less pitiful, and make your one damage skill slightly more useful. You're still ultimately useless to your team mates, and cannot do as much damage in the long run as any of the three other classes. Full END? You're useless if there's a proper tank in your party. Completely. Useless. Sure, you can heal, but you'll run out of SP and it'll cost you a fortune in SP potions and stones, moreso than a spirit cleric. I've seen mixed END/STR builds, and they were pretty useless too.

All in all, I believe in cleric healers, because I'm a full-END fighter. Any other type of cleric is useless to my cause.

[liongard]

Yeah, it always sounds cheesey but at lest I can say that I've always played a Cleric or Priest class because I enjoy that little slice of cheese. It fits my personality in a nutshell. Heck been in retail for years in real life because I enjoy helping people at every turn, and even in Fiesta I spend hours sometimes just standing around talking and healing to give people a hand whenever they need it, or even handing out potions and Elrue that I craft just to help them hang in there a bit more. I suppose that is why certain people play Clerics as a supporting roll and not as a tank or solo runner. We enjoy that cheese, and everyone appreciates it.

[LordStone]

Under no circumstances should a cleric ponder any other stat build/role, however...

All in all, I believe in cleric healers, because I'm a full-END fighter. Any other type of cleric is useless to my cause.

I agree with you on the fact that Full STR is pointless. Clerics already have naturally very high STR (the added points don't help much for damage anyway).

Going to have to respectfully disagree with you on some other points though. A cleric who hasn't put at least half of his/her points into end is going to die the instant anything goes the slight bit askew. Tank loses aggro? Add spawns and aggros clerics? Another group trains mob(s) into your healer to wipe you and take over the spawn? Sorry, but we have horrible natural END, and all the SP in the world means nothing if you are dead.

Secondly, I disagree with the mana management. I've healed for level 40-50 (member level, not mob. Mobs were 55+) and I've had no trouble with running low on SP in chain pulling unless something went wrong, and say for instance, an unexpected add that I took a few extra big hits from (See above about clerics without points in END). Knowing how to sneak in mini-house breaks mid-fight is incredibly important for SP conservation from 30 and beyond.

I'm really not trying to be combative. I just strongly disagree with some of your points.

[Drium]

I agree with you on the fact that Full STR is pointless. Clerics already have naturally very high STR (the added points don't help much for damage anyway).

Going to have to respectfully disagree with you on some other points though. A cleric who hasn't put at least half of his/her points into end is going to die the instant anything goes the slight bit askew. Tank loses aggro? Add spawns and aggros clerics? Another group trains mob(s) into your healer to wipe you and take over the spawn? Sorry, but we have horrible natural END, and all the SP in the world means nothing if you are dead.

Secondly, I disagree with the mana management. I've healed for level 40-50 (member level, not mob. Mobs were 55+) and I've had no trouble with running low on SP in chain pulling unless something went wrong, and say for instance, an unexpected add that I took a few extra big hits from (See above about clerics without points in END). Knowing how to sneak in mini-house breaks mid-fight is incredibly important for SP conservation from 30 and beyond.

I'm really not trying to be combative. I just strongly disagree with some of your points.I've never.. ever.. ran into a group training people to wipe us and take our spawn. Perhaps on Teva it is a common occurance, but people on Apoline don't do that. There are -occasional- solo people trying to run mobs into my group, but I'm an extremely swift warrior with my points into mock and demoralizing hit.

Being an aoe tanker more than anything (I do love having the attention of four orange/red mobs and keeping it) and spamming snearing kick, I rarely, if ever, do lose aggro, and if I do, it goes to the mage or archer who's frontloading into a mob I'm not actively taunting except with mock and demoralizing. My healers never takes hit, and I like it like that.

Like I said, though, a half-end half-spirit cleric is fine; I -do- like my clerics surviving if something bad happens, but I'm used to nothing bad ever happening.

As for SP conservation, I suppose I just hang out with the wrong clerics, then; I'm used to non-stop grinding, so they don't have time to rest much if at all. When my current target is almost dead, assuming an add isn't already on me, I always have a mage or archer pull a new one so that by the time it gets to me the current one just died. And again, that's if there aren't two on me already, which happens quite a lot.

For slower grinding, I can see your point. But for quick non-stop, efficient grinding, a full spirit cleric will get much more out of his SP stones, and out of his base SP pool, than any other cleric, as SP stones restore it based on percentage (I think?).

[cryragon]

[ The content is deleted to avoid wasting valuable space ]
Excuse me, but I don't see any connections between your post and this thread's topic.

Anyway, back to the topic,

Clerics are religious-minded people who stand for justice, put themselves before others, and always willing to sacrifice themselves for a higher cause. In the ancient times, clerics were categorized as upper-tier people in most parts of the world.

[Drium]

Oh. You use the term role, and I went up and assumed you were talking about game mechanics while trying to remain vague.

If you want to bring up clerics, then you're pretty much missing all of their historical value right there. What you refer to is a clerk (though this word isn't -entirely- appropriate either), or a priest, but most certainly not a cleric. The term cleric is actually a pretty recent addition to our language, and at best seems to refer to smaller religions or churchs, and ones where the word "priest" can't properly represent what we're talking about.

Templar is another word that describes what you are talking about. Cleric is not. So you can't actually say "the way of the cleric" because clerics in truth don't have a way set like that in the records of history. You'd have to be referring to their role as seen by Outspark, in their reprensatation in the game world, for it to make any sense.

[cryragon]

Cleric, clerk, and clark all come from Latin clēricus, “a man in a religious order, a man in holy orders.” Cleric appears in Old English about 975 and lasts into the 13th century. Clerc appears in late Old English, around 1129, and was identical in spelling and pronunciation with Old French clerc, “belonging to the (Christian) clergy.” In the Middle Ages the clergy were the only literate class and were often employed as scribes, secretaries, or notaries. By about 1200 clerc had acquired the meaning “pupil, scholar,” as we see in Chaucer's “clerk of Oxenford” in The Canterbury Tales (around 1386). Clerks were also of necessity employed in keeping accounts and recording business transactions; this is the source of the modern sense of clerk. By the early 17th century, the word clerk had become completely ambiguous; it could refer equally to a clergyman or to an accountant. For this reason cleric (spelled Clericke and with its modern pronunciation) was introduced or reintroduced from Latin or Greek as both a noun and an adjective to refer specifically to a member of the clergy.
Taken shamelessly from ... :D

[Drium]

All I see there is that the word was originally spelled clerk and that they were primarily scholars, accountants and such. It doesn't say they were benevolant, good-willed, samaritan, martyr-like or even generous (derivated from the fact they were employed, thus involving a salary, rather than helping people for the greater good of it).

I still haven't seen anything that implies anything even closely related to a 'way of the cleric'. The lower levels of the clergy (clerks, clerics if it pleases you) were cheap labor who they could get into doing anything under threat of disobeying His will. So they mde them into scribes-- which barely paid, was extremely long and tiresome, etc.

If we use that.. then the way of the cleric is to be freely exploited by the actual priests, bishops, cardinals, what have you.

[Shahared]

Well, in reply to the OP, I think that there are probably fairly few people who chose to play a cleric bc of their moral representation. I think most of them picked the class bc they wanted to be able to heal and tank mobs that the two weaker classes (sorry mage and archer fans!) just have hard times with. But that's just my opinion. I think you will find though that a lot of people who end up being clerics take rather quickly to the spirit of the job...healing other people can be a great way to show your altruism and lend a helping hand to the community of players around you. I see clerics randomly healing people and removing their negative status effects all the time just out of the kindness of their heart, and maybe its that ability to help that leads them to 'wanting' to help a little bit more then usual. But there are also a lot of selfish people out there who only play for themselves, ks everything they can, run around bad mouthing others and generally acting like know it all little twits at every opportunity they have! :p That's unfortunately a part of all games, it's the competitive nature that brings out the spoil sport in a lot of people. But I'd like to think that those who've chosen the clerics path are a little less selfish then the other classes...or it could just be wishful thinking! :D

[Shahared]

And as far as not finding anything about clerics having anything to do with a code of moral ethics......I should not need to point out that belonging to a christian religious order implies directly just that. I would assume if you could ask a "cleric" of the late 13th century if they stood for a moral and ethical point of view you would get a crazy look and then a most emphatic "of course I do!"

[Syrlith]

I must specify, I mean the "way of the cleric" to refer to the in-game connotations of the class.
Lets say, you were roleplaying a cleric. How would the cleric act in respect to the class?

I know "cleric" itself is new (In the grand scheme) and not particularly defined. I was hopeing to give the gist of the Video Game IC meaning, considering that this was in the Fiesta game forum.

[soysauce2rice]

I'm nice by healing anyone, reviving, and as soon as i learn it, buffing. I'm gonna try a 3:1 end and str coz i don't always solo but 1 str might help a small bit.

[Shahared]

So basically your wondering if their are others out there who are role playing their clerics with the moral conduct attached to the class? I think there are maybe a few, but they are likely far between and rarely met. In general I think very few people role play in the traditional sense of the words. It's most evident in the names: Soandso12345, Omgwhatsthat, 1337M463 etc. Most people never even put thought into 'playing' a character, they just act themselves (for the most part) and if they do play a role it's usually by acting like they are something they are not in 'real' life. I think the days of real role play are lost to that long gone era of AD&D and paper and pen Rpgs...C'est la vie! :D

[Syrlith]

So basically your wondering if their are others out there who are role playing their clerics with the moral conduct attached to the class? I think there are maybe a few, but they are likely far between and rarely met. In general I think very few people role play in the traditional sense of the words. It's most evident in the names: Soandso12345, Omgwhatsthat, 1337M463 etc. Most people never even put thought into 'playing' a character, they just act themselves (for the most part) and if they do play a role it's usually by acting like they are something they are not in 'real' life. I think the days of real role play are lost to that long gone era of AD&D and paper and pen Rpgs...C'est la vie! :D

Good point!
Sadly, though, I've never had the opportunity to play a good old D&D game. Not enough nerds in these parts. I'm particularly close to the concept, though, likely do to the anonamity of the good 'ol Final Fantasy. I luve the white mages and always Roleplayed them.

[Shahared]

Ahhh, it would be nice to have a few more games that emphasized 'In character' playing. I used to play Neverwinter Nights a lot, and the multi player was a really great electronic adaptation to what pen and paper rpgs where....although it is based on AD&D :p And back in the days of MUDs there were many many games that not only encouraged in character playing, but enforced rules against OOC talk in any IC areas.....I miss MUDs! T-T

[soysauce2rice]

I think World of Warcraft has an RPG based server where you play your role as your class. That's like the only game i know though. :P

[Shahared]

Lol, yeah, they are very few and far between nowadays. Of course we could try and role play on the game regardless of all the people who don't...but they tend to laugh at us a lot and call us geeks :p Not that its ever stopped me before!

[soysauce2rice]

Good 'ol nerds playing Dungeons and Dragons! haha.

I wouldn't mind being called a geek coz i'm interested in comptuer science though - i don't really care coz i wanna learn it sometime soon :]

Besides, I'm a cleric, i heal in the rpg everytime i play it, I cast buffs, I swing a mace or hammer around, and i use the dance emote - I feel like i'm role playing back in the times before guns already :o

[Shahared]

Yeah! Thats what I like to hear! I think out of all the classes to play clerics definitely have the easiest role to slip into. I said before I think most people who make one start embracing the idea of helping each other out fairly quickly. I don't see as many fighters embracing their courageous hero role as an example of the difference. And as far as embracing your inner geek...good! The 'Geek' shall inherit the earth! :p

[soysauce2rice]

Probably will too. Bill Gates is a geek but made a lot of money. Thomas Edison was a geek but invented so much stuff we're using today. Soon we will use hovercars like in the Jetsons heheh.

[Gravvi]

something people don't realize. Yes clerics heal. Has anyone thought of what a paladin did in the medeval days. They fought for what is right. THey were guardians, defenders of the weak and innocent. Most people should heal but that doesn't mean don't fight. IT is possible to do both.

[Shahared]

Of course it is, the point is that people don't 'role play' the class of the cleric. Think of how many people you know actually act like 'paladins' in game.....Yeah, not many. Which reminds me of playing AD&D back in the day, nobody ever wants to be the paladin:-P Lawful Good FTW!!!!!

[Xanthros]

Of course it is, the point is that people don't 'role play' the class of the cleric. Think of how many people you know actually act like 'paladins' in game.....Yeah, not many. Which reminds me of playing AD&D back in the day, nobody ever wants to be the paladin:-P Lawful Good FTW!!!!!

I toy around with people after I rez them, and say "I bless you, my child." which usually gets a laugh and a thanks, which seems to take the sting out of being smacked down and taking a 500+ xp loss/death.

Chaotic evil cleric FTW :P

X-

[TastyTapioca]

I toy around with people after I rez them, and say "I bless you, my child." which usually gets a laugh and a thanks, which seems to take the sting out of being smacked down and taking a 500+ xp loss/death.

Chaotic evil cleric FTW :P

X-

Wonder if they'll ever make a high level revive spell that gives a little experience back (like in EverQuest). Like 5-10% back or something.

[Xanthros]

Wonder if they'll ever make a high level revive spell that gives a little experience back (like in EverQuest). Like 5-10% back or something.

I'd like to see that, would be quite a nice thing - you should put that in the ideas/suggestions thread. We need rez titles too. 'Master of corpses' as a title would be one I'd wear, just for comedic value.

X-

[flowerzan]

One of the reasons I chose to be a Cleric is: 1) I thought it will be as strong as a Palladin or a Champion 2) I like the idea of spamming Heal and being able to solo on a higher monster without having to say "Party Please," although, it takes more than a minute to kill them.

1) For one thing, clerics should not be underestimated so much. I believe the clerics in this game are not meant only to heal. Have you seen their weapons and armors at higher levels, more like a palladin than a plain healer.

[Gavener]

and the fact, ALL players can USE potions and stones like water, and are cheap and FAST, so ya dont rely on the cleric every time you start dieing, last thing i want to do is hit Follow mode and hit heal for hours on end thats why i hated WOW, at lease LOTRO had some sort of healing for every class

[Shahared]

I toy around with people after I rez them, and say "I bless you, my child." which usually gets a laugh and a thanks, which seems to take the sting out of being smacked down and taking a 500+ xp loss/death.

Chaotic evil cleric FTW :P

X-

Lol, I would love to play a chaotic evil cleric:-P I think if I were playing a chaotic evil cleric I'd go around killing people then reviving them then kill them again just for laughs! Muahahahah...... :p

[BaronSkippy]

I like it for the group control it gives you. Plus it's easier to get powerleveled because a lower lvl cleric works in a pinch. Got from 30 to 32 healing a lvl 48 fighter and 48 mage in CP by the CP1 gate.

I split my stat points between SPR and END, only had to restone twice.

Also this thread is pretty much just 3 pages of people arguing over sementics.

Hypothetically, when somebody says cleric, outside of any game what do people think of. That is the way of the cleric. All this BLAH is no more then that.

Cleric is good and good encapsulates many things having to do with valor and genorosity, having and living up to stern personal standards while understanding those of others and remaining cordial in distressing situations while not forcing oneself to help those that don't deserve help.

I play my cleric as I am myself. I show respect until not shown any in return and don't shy about what I require to preform although sometimes I forget to ask for sequential for awhile.

[Shahared]

No offense but role playing and acting like yourself are 'not' the same thing. Role playing means just that: playing a role...including doing things you would not do yourself to suit the role you are 'playing'. By its very definition it means 'not' acting like yourself but acting like the character you are representing to the world. Thats not to say you shouldn't act like yourself! Being you in a game is a good thing! But for some people playing a game is a way to do and be something you are not. If you ever played a pen and paper rpg you would totally understand...if you have ever played an AD&D based computer game like Neverwinter Nights you would sorta understand. But in the end this game is 'not' a role playing game..its just a computer game and people can do and behave however they want, whether to act themselves, play out a role, or just generally behave like total lunatics and weirdos :p But I know the OP Syrlith would likes the idea of IC (in character) role playing, and I for one think its pretty cool to. (read the other post syrlith!)