Does Anyone Find That Clerics Are Much Better Suited for a Tanker Class?

[mehe25]

I read this and it kinda shed some light. I mean sure, clerics are give the tag as THE healers but I read this post and its as if they are the healing/tank class.

Read.


Originally Posted by saint_attila
I don't like snipping, but this is where I want to say something.

In basically every MMORPG, save fiesta, the main tanking class has a decent damage dealing ability.

For example, let us say that our tanking class is called the Barbarian and we base the stats off of the five main stats in fiesta. The Barbarian has very high endurance, but moderate or low in every other stat. While they may use two handed weapons that deal good single hit damage, they strike slowly and for erratic damage. The first strike could deal two hundred damage, but the next two deal only around one-hundred and twenty. [b]Their HP and P.def are very high, but their STR, SPR and DEX is average or below average. [b] They have many skills that inflict debuffs or garner a large amount of aggro. They also have skills to beef up their HP and DEF ratings, so they can take more damage and last longer.

THAT is a tank class. But in that light, it shows that Clerics are more suited for the tank class. They hit for low, erratic damage, have good defense and HP and have skills that make them tougher and harder to kill.

If we look at the four classes in a traditional RPG light, the only thing that fighters have going for them as "Tanks" is Snearing kick, mock and their high HP and DEF. Clerics have everything else.

That's just me being weird right there. :P I don't know if this applies to this argument or not. I just felt like saying that when I saw "Tanks aren't supposed to have low damage

[ahtai]

Oh when you get Awaken you will find it fun. I call it instant "come to me lovely" skill. Once press that button, the mob will do a U turn and come to me immediately instead on my teammate.

It is lovely if you are partner with mage, archer and DD fighter. They just cannot dent you and die very fast in the hand of your teammate.

Don't tell tanker fighter that fact, ;D we still need them to keep us save and press one little recover button on them.

OK Joke aside, I think fighter have higher evation than cleric. So if same sheld block rate, fighter is a better suited tanker with more damage.

[saint_attila]

......

*looks up at his post being quoted from somewhere else*

......

Aw, come on. Don't go spreading my thoughts all over the forums. As I said in the post, that was just a weird observation by me.

[Nephron]

......

*looks up at his post being quoted from somewhere else*

......

Aw, come on. Don't go spreading my thoughts all over the forums. As I said in the post, that was just a weird observation by me.

I think it's a valid observation nonetheless. Of course, I'd hazard that it's valid because Fiesta's class balance is wonky to begin with.

[YoshimaruOrona]

I think it's a valid observation nonetheless. Of course, I'd hazard that it's valid because Fiesta's class balance is wonky to begin with.

Agreed.


@The OP:
Clerics do get awaken at lv85. Its more powerful than mock (yes, I have stolen fighter agro with it >=D ), and easier to spam than mock. At the very least, we can now serve as legitimate tanks rather than just healers.

I'll save myself the headache involved with talking about how fighters should be modeled after this or that or w/e ~.~

Off-topic: Is that barbarian observation from Perfect World? /random question

[saint_attila]

Sorta....

D: I just thought of the first pure tanking class I knew, and that was Barbarian. So I just listed how the Barbarian in PW worked.

>.< hope I don't get in trouble for saying that.

[YoshimaruOrona]

I doubt it's a problem =P If you gave a link to the PW site, you'd probably get in trouble, but just mentioning something from the game's structure should be okies =o

I only asked because I'm an MMO nub (I only know Fiesta, PW to some extent, SotS [a little bit], and Mabinogi [a little bit]). So, I was kinda suprised to see a non-Fiesta reference that I could recognize.

So, it was kinda just a YAY ME moment.

Ok, somebody post something relevant to the thread now pl0x xD

[mehe25]

Sorta....

D: I just thought of the first pure tanking class I knew, and that was Barbarian. So I just listed how the Barbarian in PW worked.

>.< hope I don't get in trouble for saying that.


But never the less, it just shows how fighters could be revamped and become actual tankers.

[oldclown]

Personally I still believe that it all depends on the situation. Warriors will always have more physical defense and hp (usually) so for hard hitters like Mara and Marlone were back in the day I couldn't even get near them. For stuff like MD that uses magic, the fighter in my opinion should give way to the clank. In the long run it is all about who is controlling the aggro. Also fighters still have certain skills like devastate that really help in mob control.

[Chaola]

Defense wise, yes, clerics can make good tanks. Add to that their healing skill, and yes, why not.

Aggro wise, under 85 and awaken, then no.

Because tanking is not only survive and take the hits, it's controling mobs.

How long does it take to cleric to get back aggro from a DD ?

After Awaken, why not, but then, personnaly, I won't play with a tanking cleric, because if they are busy with healing themself, who is going to heal the party ? And yes, there is always pots and stones, and blablabla, but trust me, pots and stones sometimes aren't enough.

I know that Fiesta has made it easy for everyone to switch roles. Shouldn't mean that we should do it.

[elisagiven]

*sigh* if only we could all just heal ourselves we could experience life in all aspects of all the classes an not have to leave the 1st one we choose.
I don't do cleric, my only cleric is my scroll maker and a darned good one, and that is all she will ever be, I really stink at the job, so I wont even comment on tanking vs clanking but I sure hope a cleric is avail to heal when I need one. I guess what I'm trying to say is I have no problem with a tanker cleric as long as there is a healer cleric avail also.

[skysparkle]

*sigh* if only we could all just heal ourselves we could experience life in all aspects of all the classes an not have to leave the 1st one we choose.
I don't do cleric, my only cleric is my scroll maker and a darned good one, and that is all she will ever be, I really stink at the job, so I wont even comment on tanking vs clanking but I sure hope a cleric is avail to heal when I need one. I guess what I'm trying to say is I have no problem with a tanker cleric as long as there is a healer cleric avail also.

i have no problem with a dd fighter just as long as there is a tank available when i need one :D sorry semi sarcastic but ppl seem to question time and time again clerics tanking

unfortunately im seeing more and more other classes having to tank in kq as because we all all know(well apart from the fighters who wont admit it) a dd fighter is the most (over?)powerful class in fiesta atm so most the fighters now r taking that route which unfortunately without gd gears/scrolls/sc? makes them a lil squishy

O.o i always wander off topic .....clerics can tank if needed but so can any class in the right circumstances (watched a mage tanking md yesterday my archer's tanked gold hill 3 times) but u cant beat a proper tank fighter....when u can find one :o

edit: slightly ..maybe? off topic story
yesterday me on my lvl 50 mage and my luvly hubby on his lvl 50 cleric were in md kq at the end there was us and 3 fighters left :/ my hubby clanked md a while and i dd a while, while all the poor fighters could do was stand around twiddling their thumbs as none could get close enough to hit md without being squished ...needless to say this was a fail as soon as my hubby got stunned but maybe if more fighters were doing the job of tanking then the clerics wouldnt have to :)

[YoshimaruOrona]

I read Chaola's post and thought I should mention something else.

In the same sense that tanking fighters need to know how to hold agro and take the damage, so should tanking clerics.

For example, I remember being in GHS (8x dungeon) once with 4 mages. Yes, I said it. 4 mages, all with +9's. Awaken held agro beautifully, rarely had to worry about them getting touched. But the instant that one of them were being attacked (usually from a newly spawned monster), I would spam every kind of heal I had all over them until awaken would take their agro (keeping myself alive on stones in the meanwhile and moving around to lessen the dmg being taken).

Then I would go back to spam healing myself and standing still while 4 novas and infernos rained down on me. So, I said all that to say that hopefully tanking clerics can keep the party healed, even if they're tanking.

[ahtai]

edit: slightly ..maybe? off topic story
yesterday me on my lvl 50 mage and my luvly hubby on his lvl 50 cleric were in md kq at the end there was us and 3 fighters left :/ my hubby clanked md a while and i dd a while, while all the poor fighters could do was stand around twiddling their thumbs as none could get close enough to hit md without being squished ...needless to say this was a fail as soon as my hubby got stunned but maybe if more fighters were doing the job of tanking then the clerics wouldnt have to :)

<said in low voice> Use mage to tank and put t3 scroll including m.def to tank next time. My mage got fear only once and get back aggro very fast. Stone+pot if necessary, but stone/pot and heal work very nicely.

<now in normal voice> I do agree tanker fighter are rare when DD fighter so overwhelming, though I know 2 other cleric aside of me have a alt tanker fighter. It takes a cleric to love/appreciate a tanker fighter.

[amishpyrate]

im mkaing my cleric as a "wrong cleric" or a tank or w/e and honestly its alot of fun i like being able to solo monsters and elites lol and hell even saying no to everyone who n wants a heal/buff/rev...i guess ppl dont quite get it that i will not do any of those things unles they ask me politely and more likely to do it if its in a full sentence as well....even kq i will do the same cept robo lol not quite high enough lvl to do that by my self ....but in all honestly it annoys me that ppl assume such things as i cant tank cause im a "healer" and i should just do my job as such .... sorry but if ya gonna say that too me illbe dancing on your body as you ask me to rev you cause i will not do a thing for you if you make such an assumption to me

well i suppose thats it for me but imo clerics are win when tanking if built right

[Yoruko]

*sigh* if only we could all just heal ourselves we could experience life in all aspects of all the classes an not have to leave the 1st one we choose.
I don't do cleric, my only cleric is my scroll maker and a darned good one, and that is all she will ever be, I really stink at the job, so I wont even comment on tanking vs clanking but I sure hope a cleric is avail to heal when I need one. I guess what I'm trying to say is I have no problem with a tanker cleric as long as there is a healer cleric avail also.

In the same vein, it's fine if a fighter wants to dd as long as they're available to tank too. A large part of the reason you see so many on other classes tanking is because the fighters won't do it. To be honest if a fighter isn't willing to tank, then I think they have no right to expect anyone else to do anything for them. I don't know if you fall into that category but I'm just throwing it out there because of the sheer number of fighters that outright refuse to tank and expect my mage to do it or something.

Not to rehash old threads but many fighters are horribly failing and other classes are having to pick up the slack for them.

For the main topic I don't really agree with the assessment of what a tanking class is. It's extremely game dependent, that may be how one tank in one game is made but it's not most. Buffs are generally in the hands of casters and healers not tanks, they may have some temporary def buffs or something but not the main buffs. There's also all kinds of different ways tanks mitigate damage in different games, some are pure def and hp, others and evasion etc. Traditionally tanks tend to have quite low damage by comparison but it's not always true. A tank is more about it's ability to generate and hold agro more than it's ability to take hits and even this varies a lot.

In some games they spam low cast time spells to hold agro, others it's just mostly taunts, some games tanks have low level heals and taunts and they spam a combo of both. Still other games tanks use damage to hold agro, and still others the tanks spam stuns to both stay alive and hold agro. There's not one skill set that says this is a tank end of story.

The way I define a tank is that he must be able to first and foremost hold agro, there's no point if the tank can't hold agro. After that they must have enough damage mitigation(in any form, evasion, def, hp, stuns, whatever) to not get one-shot, and so that when they're being healed their net hp movement is in a positive direction. If a class can do those they're a tank, if not they arn't. The best tank is the one that can do the combination of those two things the best, or who's available, sometimes like in fiesta the two tanks are kind of equal in this regard(assuming equal skill among the players) so it's kind of a pick one and it doesn't matter.

[mifdsam]

Defense wise, yes, clerics can make good tanks. Add to that their healing skill, and yes, why not.

Aggro wise, under 85 and awaken, then no.

Because tanking is not only survive and take the hits, it's controling mobs.

How long does it take to cleric to get back aggro from a DD ?

After Awaken, why not, but then, personnaly, I won't play with a tanking cleric, because if they are busy with healing themself, who is going to heal the party ? And yes, there is always pots and stones, and blablabla, but trust me, pots and stones sometimes aren't enough.

I know that Fiesta has made it easy for everyone to switch roles. Shouldn't mean that we should do it.

You do realize... Awaken, Recover and Reinvigorate all heal you...

[Celtic_Princess]

Defense wise, yes, clerics can make good tanks. Add to that their healing skill, and yes, why not.

Aggro wise, under 85 and awaken, then no.

Because tanking is not only survive and take the hits, it's controling mobs.

How long does it take to cleric to get back aggro from a DD ?

After Awaken, why not, but then, personnaly, I won't play with a tanking cleric, because if they are busy with healing themself, who is going to heal the party ? And yes, there is always pots and stones, and blablabla, but trust me, pots and stones sometimes aren't enough.

I know that Fiesta has made it easy for everyone to switch roles. Shouldn't mean that we should do it.



With the addition of heal empowerment its a lot easier for a cleric to steal aggro both at low and at high levels.
In addition heals like Rejuvinate, Recover, and Quicken (which allows us to double cast recover) make taking and keeping aggro fairly easy.

As to your question 'if they are too busy healing themselves, who is going to heal the party?' Well...the clank is. Often we are using spam healing in order to keep aggro in a KQ or a party with multiple DD's...and we don't need all of those heals so we're more than capable of tossing a few heals to our PT. Ideally though, if we have the aggro, our PT shouldn't be taking much if any damage.

I certainly don't mind stepping back and healing when I'm not needed but there are times when my clank serves the purpose better than any of the available fighters.

The difficulty in this question is 'can the cleric maintain aggro?' Yes...a number of us can. Much like fighters we have to learn which skills to use when. However, while the main point against clerics is their supposed lack of aggro grabbing skills...I could easily say the same for a number of fighters who dont seem to know where theirs are. Heck, I've seen archers and mages tank just as well if not better than some fighters.

Its how well you play your character. Knowing your limits (don't tank if you can't take the hits) and your abilities. Not what class you chose in the beginning.

[saint_attila]

>.> And this is kinda why I don't like people quoting me from other threads.

<.< Cause in the other thread, someone said that tanks are supposed to have super high damage, and that was my answer to that.

>.> The last thing I said was just some random thought from me.

[mehe25]

>.> And this is kinda why I don't like people quoting me from other threads.

<.< Cause in the other thread, someone said that tanks are supposed to have super high damage, and that was my answer to that.

>.> The last thing I said was just some random thought from me.

But still, your -so far---I've known---the only one who's actualy observed it in this kind of veiw point.

Many neglect clerics for not being able to tank just for the fact that they have the designated duty to heal. Although if the fighter won't tank and always expects someone else to tank then I see no reason why they'd even complain or make a peep,well, since it was their designated duty to tank in a party..

[spheris]

I have a sneaking urge to yell out "HYPOCRITES!!! :O"

This kinda goes against what so many people have said before-let me remind you:

-mages = main DDs
-archers = support DDs
-clerics = healers
-fighter = tank

Now I'm really not against the idea since I myself do not follow in with my supposed class role, however, if you're going to condone one class stepping out of their designated role, then I have to say don't go around snapping at other players doing the exact same thing.

[Yoruko]

I have a sneaking urge to yell out "HYPOCRITES!!! :O"

This kinda goes against what so many people have said before-let me remind you:

-mages = main DDs
-archers = support DDs
-clerics = healers
-fighter = tank

Now I'm really not against the idea since I myself do not follow in with my supposed class role, however, if you're going to condone one class stepping out of their designated role, then I have to say don't go around snapping at other players doing the exact same thing.

Are you capable of making a post that isn't insulting?

[saint_attila]

Are you capable of making a post that isn't insulting?

I think a better question is if he can make a post that is not full of irony. He's created a thread about why fighters should be able to be DD's, then comes to a thread talking about Clanks and says they are not doing their jobs.

=.= You see, he's the hypocrite here. Pay no mind to him, since he doesn't follow the rubric he has given.

[spheris]

Are you capable of making a post that isn't insulting?


I think a better question is if he can make a post that is not full of irony. He's created a thread about why fighters should be able to be DD's, then comes to a thread talking about Clanks and says they are not doing their jobs.

=.= You see, he's the hypocrite here. Pay no mind to him, since he doesn't follow the rubric he has given.

Pardon me but both of you need to read that post again because you obviously missed this part:

"Now I'm really not against the idea since I myself do not follow in with my supposed class role"

Shall I explain?

-because of that one little statement there, I'm not a hypocrite.

Meanwhile I fail to see how tha post was insulting, I was just laying out the facts as they are.

That certain people have been preaching about class roles, particularly where fighters are concerned, yet not so much as an eyebrow is raised when other classes go against their supposed class role.


Anyways if you actually read the post-and I dont mean skimmed, then you would have realized that I was siding with the clerics right to tank.

[ahtai]

That certain people have been preaching about class roles, particularly where fighters are concerned, yet not so much as an eyebrow is raised when other classes go against their supposed class role.


You must be kidding right? :rolleyes:

Just yesterday a newbie archer stand infront of me and say "heal" While I am standing in front of smith enhancing and he don't even bother to shoom.

[saint_attila]

I have a sneaking urge to yell out "HYPOCRITES!!! :O"

This kinda goes against what so many people have said before-let me remind you:

-mages = main DDs
-archers = support DDs
-clerics = healers
-fighter = tank

Now I'm really not against the idea since I myself do not follow in with my supposed class role, however, if you're going to condone one class stepping out of their designated role, then I have to say don't go around snapping at other players doing the exact same thing.

Actually, if we are to look at this clearly.....

"If you are going to condone one class stepping out of their designated role, then I have to say don't go around snapping at other players doing the exact same thing."

This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion of this thread. You just came here and said "Don't get mad at others if they don't do what their class was made for."

This thread is to discuss the tanking possibilities of a cleric, which you did not address.

[mehe25]

Hey guys, lets cool it down.

And lets not create the nuclear bombing war started over at spheris' thread XD

[spheris]

Actually, if we are to look at this clearly.....

"If you are going to condone one class stepping out of their designated role, then I have to say don't go around snapping at other players doing the exact same thing."

This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion of this thread. You just came here and said "Don't get mad at others if they don't do what their class was made for."

This thread is to discuss the tanking possibilities of a cleric, which you did not address.

And yet you neglect to aknowlege that I did in fact side with a clerics right to be a tank:

"Now I'm really not against the idea since I myself do not follow in with my supposed class role"

Take note that I wasn't knocking clerics, or their possible ability to tank-I was merely pointing out the hypocracy in these forums.

[Celtic_Princess]

Now I'm really not against the idea since I myself do not follow in with my supposed class role, however, if you're going to condone one class stepping out of their designated role, then I have to say don't go around snapping at other players doing the exact same thing.


I'm not exactly sure who that's directed to as I haven't actually seen anyone in here say that fighters cannot break from the tank role. In fact, I believe a lot people here are saying that clerics step into the clanking role because so many fighters have switched to pvp DD builds.

Perhaps you know of something I missed in this thread, or someone has said something in another thread that I missed....but so far, I haven't seen anyone really say that clerics can tank but fighters can't be DDs or anything of that sort.

[spheris]

I'm not exactly sure who that's directed to as I haven't actually seen anyone in here say that fighters cannot break from the tank role. In fact, I believe a lot people here are saying that clerics step into the clanking role because so many fighters have switched to pvp DD builds.

Perhaps you know of something I missed in this thread, or someone has said something in another thread that I missed....but so far, I haven't seen anyone really say that clerics can tank but fighters can't be DDs or anything of that sort.


Actually I'm not sure what specific thread it is that people have been saying fighters shouldn't step away from being tanks since I've been posting so much lately.

But if I had to narrow it down to one, I'd put my money on the "fighters have the right to be DDs" thread.

[Yoruko]

I really suggest we just ignore him(I know I was the first to respond) he just likes throwing bombs around. To sum up the thread he's referencing(cause it's like 19 pages now or something) he's mad that people said sure DD but tank while you do it. The thread is riddled with insults and hostility to nearly everyone who posted, I only pray this thread doesn't turn into the same.

[mehe25]

I really suggest we just ignore him(I know I was the first to respond) he just likes throwing bombs around. To sum up the thread he's referencing(cause it's like 19 pages now or something) he's mad that people said sure DD but tank while you do it. The thread is riddled with insults and hostility to nearly everyone who posted, I only pray this thread doesn't turn into the same.

Its funny how spheris' post was the first post that is sparking this nuclear bomb war.

But never the less *Casts bomb wars protection over the thread* I hope this imaginary cleric buff is enough. XD

[YoshimaruOrona]

-yawn-

Clankers are still healers, fyi.

But because they have all the agro and their party members don't need the heals, they spam the heals on themself.

Nothing hypocritical about that.

Now a battle cleric in an AoE party with archers/mages/fighters who is dealing damage ... that would be some hypocrisy.

[Chaola]

You do realize... Awaken, Recover and Reinvigorate all heal you...



With the addition of heal empowerment its a lot easier for a cleric to steal aggro both at low and at high levels.
In addition heals like Rejuvinate, Recover, and Quicken (which allows us to double cast recover) make taking and keeping aggro fairly easy.

As to your question 'if they are too busy healing themselves, who is going to heal the party?' Well...the clank is. Often we are using spam healing in order to keep aggro in a KQ or a party with multiple DD's...and we don't need all of those heals so we're more than capable of tossing a few heals to our PT. Ideally though, if we have the aggro, our PT shouldn't be taking much if any damage.

I certainly don't mind stepping back and healing when I'm not needed but there are times when my clank serves the purpose better than any of the available fighters.

The difficulty in this question is 'can the cleric maintain aggro?' Yes...a number of us can. Much like fighters we have to learn which skills to use when. However, while the main point against clerics is their supposed lack of aggro grabbing skills...I could easily say the same for a number of fighters who dont seem to know where theirs are. Heck, I've seen archers and mages tank just as well if not better than some fighters.

Its how well you play your character. Knowing your limits (don't tank if you can't take the hits) and your abilities. Not what class you chose in the beginning.

I'll just quote Orona on that, as he understood what I was trying to say :


So, I said all that to say that hopefully tanking clerics can keep the party healed, even if they're tanking.

Because I know it's not always the case. That's all I wanted to point out, as you like to point out how bad fighters are with tanking.

[ahtai]

Actually I'm not sure what specific thread it is that people have been saying fighters shouldn't step away from being tanks since I've been posting so much lately.

But if I had to narrow it down to one, I'd put my money on the "fighters have the right to be DDs" thread.

Tickle the fighter friends I know who are STR built but can tank. End of discussion.

[spheris]

I really suggest we just ignore him(I know I was the first to respond) he just likes throwing bombs around. To sum up the thread he's referencing(cause it's like 19 pages now or something) he's mad that people said sure DD but tank while you do it. The thread is riddled with insults and hostility to nearly everyone who posted, I only pray this thread doesn't turn into the same.

Judging from your attitude I'd say you probably want this thread to end up the same.

Incidentally I wasn't "throwing bombs around", and no I'm not mad about what happened in my thread.-It's back on topic, even though your arguments are weak, fleeting, and hypocritical.


However, out of respect for the OP, and since it seems some people have problems staying civil when I make a post, I'm going to bow out of this thread before any major flamming starts.

[amishpyrate]

wow some one likes to use the word hypocrital >.>

get over it clanks are win
and who cares if fighters wont tank come on theres plenty of clerics who wont heal/rev/buff cause of the same damn sort of expectations that are made for them

if ya keep on pressuring some one to do something more then likely they wont do it
and thats pretty simple and well the truth\

i mean come on if you were constantly being told what to do or spammed about it wth would you do would you continue to put up with it and have it damper the fun of gameplay or would ya stand up say no and stfu and tell em to deal with it

the game is to have fun
game 1
n.
1. An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime

if thats not the case for you then ya might be taking it tooooooo seriously >.>

[Yoruko]

wow some one likes to use the word hypocrital >.>

get over it clanks are win
and who cares if fighters wont tank come on theres plenty of clerics who wont heal/rev/buff cause of the same damn sort of expectations that are made for them

if ya keep on pressuring some one to do something more then likely they wont do it
and thats pretty simple and well the truth\

i mean come on if you were constantly being told what to do or spammed about it wth would you do would you continue to put up with it and have it damper the fun of gameplay or would ya stand up say no and stfu and tell em to deal with it

the game is to have fun
game 1
n.
1. An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime

if thats not the case for you then ya might be taking it tooooooo seriously >.>

This kind of brings up a larger point of selfishness. This comes up more and more in MMOs and I just doesn't make sense to me. Just a note I use you in the general not specific. You have a game and you want to join a team on that game, you're offered several positions on that team to play. You want to play position B, you choose a class that plays position A, then say to your team, I don't want to play position A, I'm going to play position B and you all need to adjust to me. These people purposely choose a class that doesn't do what they want it to, then expect everyone else in the party to accommodate them, and get upset when people want them to play the position they chose by picking their class.

I want to have fun, I want to be different(remember just because you are unique doesn't mean you are useful), whatever I've heard them all. I mean go join a baseball team(even among friends for fun) and say I want to play pitcher from first base, see how far you get with them. It's essentially the same thing that happens here. The fun argument is almost worse because in many cases you're ruining the fun of the rest of the party, via lower exp, or making a kq fail or something, just for your own "fun". Meanwhile no one is forcing you to play one position they just want you to play that position on the class that was designed to play that position.

This is more to the dd clerics than the cleric tanks because a tank cleric has proven useful but there's nothing useful about a dd cleric. And honestly it goes out to all classes not specifically one. It just rubs me the wrong way cause everyone tries to make people out as some monster cause they expect someone to play the class they freely chose on their own. It just seems so backwards and makes absolutely no sense to me.

[mifdsam]

Personally, I think clanking is fun, and is a good alternative for when there's no fighter or when you're fighting mobs that do magic damage, also I'd like to see a fighter who can take aggro from a cleric who spams recover/awaken

But in the end, it's just a matter of preference really, so stop arguing about it, honestly

[amishpyrate]

first of the respect i have towards others is reflected by which is shown to me same goes to kindness and how rude some one can be
and you can gtfo cause honestly that lil remark on how fiesta is like base is sorta bs and well honestly could care less about the refeerence cause in any case i caould care less about that particular team sport
but for future reference maybe you should understand the fact of the anoytence of majority of players in the game and how they demand heals/buffs/revs and at that point i could care less cause i will not go out of my way for someone like that

and i wouldnt expect it from anyone if i was doing the same

and to cintune clanking is always fun so far from lpaying ive decided that im gonna enjoy it far more then i am now when i reach to the higher levels

next goal clank and solo robo in vt \o/

[Celtic_Princess]

Lets keep things nice in here guys, while we may not agree, everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as its posted in a civil manner.

[Yoruko]

first of the respect i have towards others is reflected by which is shown to me same goes to kindness and how rude some one can be
and you can gtfo cause honestly that lil remark on how fiesta is like base is sorta bs and well honestly could care less about the refeerence cause in any case i caould care less about that particular team sport
but for future reference maybe you should understand the fact of the anoytence of majority of players in the game and how they demand heals/buffs/revs and at that point i could care less cause i will not go out of my way for someone like that


Ok calm down seriously. No need to scream f-off when someone wants others to respect their party's wishes and play the class they themselves chose. I just feel when someone chooses of their own free will a class, they shouldn't get indignant when people expect them to play that class. The analogy works even among friends, go play a game with your friends and start doing random things and not taking it at all seriously(this is largely what something like dd cleric is like, that ones that don't really heal). It might be a game for fun but they won't be very happy. These would be your friends imagine how people who don't even know you feel. It might be a game but I just think it's wrong to ruin people's fun, like making a kq fail, just because a player doesn't want to play their class.

[Miazma]

Ok calm down seriously. No need to scream f-off when someone wants others to respect their party's wishes and play the class they themselves chose. I just feel when someone chooses of their own free will a class, they shouldn't get indignant when people expect them to play that class. The analogy works even among friends, go play a game with your friends and start doing random things and not taking it at all seriously(this is largely what something like dd cleric is like, that ones that don't really heal). It might be a game for fun but they won't be very happy. These would be your friends imagine how people who don't even know you feel. It might be a game but I just think it's wrong to ruin people's fun, like making a kq fail, just because a player doesn't want to play their class.


Why is it noone takes the time to complain about all the SQUISHY DD fighters these days, you know the ones who are always sitting in their shroom cos 1 hit will kill them. Yet those same people scream because a cleric wants to make THEIR cleric build to suit themselves. And when I made my cleric I didnt sign on any dotted line saying I will play my cleric according to these rules.

ANY AND ALL rules that a cleric are SUPPOSED to abide by were made by players on the game. And I am very very sorry but it is not their place to tell me or any other cleric how we should play OUR CHARACTER.

[Yoruko]

Why is it noone takes the time to complain about all the SQUISHY DD fighters these days, you know the ones who are always sitting in their shroom cos 1 hit will kill them. Yet those same people scream because a cleric wants to make THEIR cleric build to suit themselves. And when I made my cleric I didnt sign on any dotted line saying I will play my cleric according to these rules.

ANY AND ALL rules that a cleric are SUPPOSED to abide by were made by players on the game. And I am very very sorry but it is not their place to tell me or any other cleric how we should play OUR CHARACTER.

I complain about anyone who sucks, this just happens to be a cleric discussion so everyone just assumes it's the first and only time I've ever complained.

It's not about contracts or rules or anything like that, it's about trying to succeed, doing your best, being a team player when you join a team. There's no I in team and all that. It's to the point where there's actually more hostility toward those who play their class correctly than at those who make kqs fail, and party members die. Why is there outright rage, hostility, insults, and downright cursing at those who simply want people to be team players when they join a team. Who want players to play the class they chose of their own free will. People know cleric has the worst damage by a long shot of all classes, they know mages and archers are the dps, and that fighters have agro tools. Yet we get this burning rage when they're expected to play their class's role.

When did it become fun to make others suffer, to lose kqs, and to scream at people on a daily basis for expecting a person to play their class. No one forced them to chose the class, they chose it. People expect everyone else to bow down and accommodate them but it never crosses their mind that if they want to dd, why not play a real dd class? Where else in the world do people intentionally pick something that offers the worst tools imaginable for doing a task and then get indignant when other people don't want them to do that task with their tools. None of it makes the least bit of sense. Yet for some reason these people are lauded and praised while those who play their class correctly are cursed at and spat upon.

[mehe25]

Lets keep things nice in here guys, while we may not agree, everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as its posted in a civil manner.



Yes, lets hold hands around the camp fire and sing kumbaya.--LOl just the impression I got from you XD. But no offence though.

[Miazma]

I complain about anyone who sucks, this just happens to be a cleric discussion so everyone just assumes it's the first and only time I've ever complained.

It's not about contracts or rules or anything like that, it's about trying to succeed, doing your best, being a team player when you join a team. There's no I in team and all that. It's to the point where there's actually more hostility toward those who play their class correctly than at those who make kqs fail, and party members die. Why is there outright rage, hostility, insults, and downright cursing at those who simply want people to be team players when they join a team. Who want players to play the class they chose of their own free will. People know cleric has the worst damage by a long shot of all classes, they know mages and archers are the dps, and that fighters have agro tools. Yet we get this burning rage when they're expected to play their class's role.

When did it become fun to make others suffer, to lose kqs, and to scream at people on a daily basis for expecting a person to play their class. No one forced them to chose the class, they chose it. People expect everyone else to bow down and accommodate them but it never crosses their mind that if they want to dd, why not play a real dd class? Where else in the world do people intentionally pick something that offers the worst tools imaginable for doing a task and then get indignant when other people don't want them to do that task with their tools. None of it makes the least bit of sense. Yet for some reason these people are lauded and praised while those who play their class correctly are cursed at and spat upon.

Who determines how a class is played correctly?

Please direct me to where I will find a document put out by the makers of Fiesta *NOT a player* that dictates what role each class is expected to fulfull.

As for the cleric having the worst tools imaginable for doing a task that is just a joke. STR clerics are the fastest money makers on the game and are perfect for the task.

[Yoruko]

Who determines how a class is played correctly?

Please direct me to where I will find a document put out by the makers of Fiesta *NOT a player* that dictates what role each class is expected to fulfull.

As for the cleric having the worst tools imaginable for doing a task that is just a joke. STR clerics are the fastest money makers on the game and are perfect for the task.

What does money have anything to do with how well you dps? Are you trying to say I'm wrong in saying cleric is by far the worst dps class in the game? That mages, archers, and yes even fighters do not absolutely demolish their damage?

How do we know what a class's role is? How about what it does best, or what is most beneficial to the party? Are you really going to argue that it's more beneficial to a party for a cleric to beat on something with it's mace than to heal and or tank? Funny thing about computer programs, no amount of wishing will make them change, they deal with cold hard numbers. Some classes in MMOs are all around better at one task than another class is. There is NOTHING any player can do to change that.

Nothing short of common sense should be able to tell anyone in almost any MMO what the role of a given class is, it's just not the complicated.

This is a serious question, are there really that many people out there that truly can't figure out what the role of a given class is? Have we really strayed so far away from the concept of teamwork that no one knows what it is anymore? I am serious about this. This is a trend that has started showing up for the past few years, it was never like this in the old school games. I'm sorry but this is just truly baffling to me seeing people in a rage over someone expecting them to play the class they chose. It honestly makes as much sense to me as someone saying the grass is purple, the sky is green, and the sun is neon blue, while I'm staring at them saying, "what?"

I just never will understand someone who can look at a class that is so far and away behind others in dps potential and say "forget it's role I'm going to be a dps."

[DarkAngelTsubasa]

majority of players in the game and how they demand heals/buffs/revs

Talking about people demanding a cleric to do this and that... I DO NOT TAKE DEMANDS. I only take requests :rolleyes:


Why is it noone takes the time to complain about all the SQUISHY DD fighters these days, you know the ones who are always sitting in their shroom cos 1 hit will kill them. Yet those same people scream because a cleric wants to make THEIR cleric build to suit themselves. And when I made my cleric I didnt sign on any dotted line saying I will play my cleric according to these rules.

ANY AND ALL rules that a cleric are SUPPOSED to abide by were made by players on the game. And I am very very sorry but it is not their place to tell me or any other cleric how we should play OUR CHARACTER.

Cant agree more than this =)

If played well, a cleric can be a very efficient clank and a healer at the same time. There isnt any rule tt says we cant clank.

[joshbl56]

OK people, theirs no need to get all mad because someone didn't want to sit on the side lines and heal a fighter. The thing i dont get is why people get mad if a cleric tanks. You should be glad if anyone tanks and your character isn't dieing cause someone doesn't want to. I would rather have a cleric who can tank then a DD fighter who would die if they aren't healed every time they are hit. If someone want to be a clanker, let them, just like if a fighter want to DD, let them. There really isn't anyway you should have a character, if there was, it would be in the Fiesta rules. If you like the class and wants to be something, do it, its your character, not the idiot who doesn't like it cause you dont want to sit there and heal them even though they could just use stones or pots.

EDIT:
Just went into fighter forums and saw spheris have a thread about how fighters can be DD's because of there lvl 120 job change. If i remember right, the clerics lvl. 120 class change is Protector(not sure) and Holy Knight. I'm pretty sure that a Holy Knight is like the super version of a clanker, so that means that clerics can tank ^.^


Off Subject:

It's not about contracts or rules or anything like that, it's about trying to succeed, doing your best, being a team player when you join a team. There's no I in team and all that. It's to the point where there's actually more hostility toward those who play their class correctly than at those who make kqs fail, and party members die. Why is there outright rage, hostility, insults, and downright cursing at those who simply want people to be team players when they join a team. Who want players to play the class they chose of their own free will. People know cleric has the worst damage by a long shot of all classes, they know mages and archers are the dps, and that fighters have agro tools. Yet we get this burning rage when they're expected to play their class's role.

no offense, but you really like to say that they make KQ fail, but i've been in a KQ and the clanker is the reason we won. We had one fighter and he left us at the beginning cause it was full of clerics, archers, and mages.

[darthnish]

past lvl 85 clerics make the best tanks, there are way too many squihie fighters who cant hold onto mobs for more than 5 seconds, awaken has a 9 sec cool time which is also an aoe heal, that way the cleric can hold aggro and heal the party, so no one can whine about not getting heals >.>

[Celtic_Princess]

Yes, lets hold hands around the camp fire and sing kumbaya.--LOl just the impression I got from you XD. But no offence though.


I mean you can if you want, I'll bring Smores...

I think, that while everyone has the right to play their character the way they want there are certain expectations within a party. A clanker though, doesn't necessarily break from these roles as they can take the place of a tank and still fulfill their expected 'duty' as a healer.

[marz101]

can some1 tell me what "DD" means T__T i cant figure it out lol x]

[Chaola]

can some1 tell me what "DD" means T__T i cant figure it out lol x]

DD means Damage Dealer, someone whos job is to well... deal damage xD

[Yoruko]

OK people, theirs no need to get all mad because someone didn't want to sit on the side lines and heal a fighter. The thing i dont get is why people get mad if a cleric tanks. You should be glad if anyone tanks and your character isn't dieing cause someone doesn't want to. I would rather have a cleric who can tank then a DD fighter who would die if they aren't healed every time they are hit. If someone want to be a clanker, let them, just like if a fighter want to DD, let them. There really isn't anyway you should have a character, if there was, it would be in the Fiesta rules. If you like the class and wants to be something, do it, its your character, not the idiot who doesn't like it cause you dont want to sit there and heal them even though they could just use stones or pots.


No no you misunderstand. I'm not really mad at cleric tanks, I've tanked, and I've had wonderful cleric tanks. What I'm mad at are people that refuse to be team players and then go into this rage when asked to. It is more true for jobs like fighter and cleric but true for all, players need to be flexible in these games. All classes have a main role they play and regardless of build they should be willing and ready to play it. Short of bosses perhaps a DD fighter for example, even without a shield still has a lot of hp and def and is very capable of tanking. They don't suddenly become mages just because they're lacking like 50 end(granted I know bosses can be trouble but most everything else poses no real problem). Clerics need to be ready and able to heal, even if it means stepping bad and losing some damage. It's far more important to keep someone alive than to get an extra hit in with your mace. DDs get skimmed over a big cause there's not really a second role they play due to their design. Occasionally you get a mage/archer tank decked out in cash gear but they're rare(and they've got to dd anyway to hold agro).

In a lot of ways this is even more true because often times to do a branch out path you don't have to give up what you're doing. Clerics tanking heal to keep agro so they're still a healer, dd fighters tanking still want to do damage to help hold agro. My overall point is specially if you join a kq where no one can stop you from joining, you need to be willing to work with the team for the overall success. Parties are a little more debatable just because someone has to invite you, and can kick you at any given time. Even then though killing spots can get crowded, and specially when there's a quest, parties help reduce the crowding so it's just nice to be more flexible and try to make the party succeed.

Think a little about the selfishness of it, they always say they play for fun, but that involves destroying the fun of a lot of other people at times. When asked about it they don't care at all. When someone suggest they be a team player so we win the kq and all have fun, they fly off the handle cursing and swearing at that person. Basically just if you're going to pick a class, play the class, it's not like anyone forced you to choose it. I mean if I want to play a tank I don't create a mage(as usual you is general).

I don't mind a class doing something different, just make sure it's useful, and that you understand when NOT to do it.


Just went into fighter forums and saw spheris have a thread about how fighters can be DD's because of there lvl 120 job change. If i remember right, the clerics lvl. 120 class change is Protector(not sure) and Holy Knight. I'm pretty sure that a Holy Knight is like the super version of a clanker, so that means that clerics can tank ^.^

I wouldn't put too much stock in it, we know very little about the 120 classes. You also have the problem of mages and archers, there's not really a split point there. Even with cleric, who knows, maybe one's a dd and one's a tank, or maybe one just has more offensive party buffs while one has more defensive party buffs but they're both healers, or maybe ones party oriented while one is solo oriented. Maybe it's just mostly cosmetic with just different armor and one or two skills that differ. Keep in mind these classes won't lose any skill thats pre-120. Not to mention it's 120, that's awful late in the game to be making large shifts in classes.

If you keep reading the fighter you notice I used a similar argument there to shoot down most of his theories(it's burried deep I won't fault you if you don't look for it). There's just too many possibilities for what this class change could mean and not enough info to use it as the basis to draw any conclusions from it.