A fix for Mages

[Flashrave]

All i ever hear in these forums is that mages must be either all spr or all int, what if us mages put some points in END, so we could take a few hits?

to me, that makes more sense than relying on a crit chance or hoping the mob never reaches me (which i know it will)

Maybe we need to re-think how to build a mage. thoughts?

[chodien]

In Ragnarok Online, there're VIT mage type (81 INT/99 DEX/5x VIT) who mainly aim to War of Emperium. But in Fiesta, we can't do that because we only have one, just one point to add per level. The rest are automatically added by the system.

Therefore, I think END mage type are not available at this moment.

[niisokusu]

i have mage full end 5 points cooldown 5 points damage to magic burst it is very good in party even in solo but rely on many scrolls and packs of stones potions. expensive way but level 3 times faster than anyone

[Flashrave]

i have mage full end 5 points cooldown 5 points damage to magic burst it is very good in party even in solo but rely on many scrolls and packs of stones potions. expensive way but level 3 times faster than anyone

Soooo, you're saying a partial END build does indeed work. Has anyone else made a partial END build mage?

[Liala]

What server are you on Nii? I would like to grind with you sometime and see this full end mage in action. ^^

[Damien_Keeterle]

Ehh on Teva I went and put all end on my Mage...level 18 at the moment...he is totally experimental but so far he is working great for me...I more then likely screwed up the skill empowering seeing as I put the points almost all on my magic missles and one on fire bolt for cool down and something else but that is basically what I did...when I get around to it I will post his stats but so far its working for me cause I ain't dieing fast

[Patchouli]

Each +1 End gives you only 5 HP pool and 0.5 defense, I feel that it's not worth the investment since it's such a minor reduction of damage taken.

[s3ngoku]

Im END SPR built...close to 1:2...END is useful even if you see it as 5hp and 0.5def..i had more END with END rings and stats from my gear and my HP is close to 2-2.1k with a Lv1/2 Endure buff from cleric and a Tier1 Vitality, I was able to aoe Blue clover trumpy without having the risk of dying should the fighter lose aggro, well...i could take like 5-6hits from them with 2.1k hp.

I had like +55 END current (Free Stats + equipments(only weapon and ring at the moment)..which gives me an edge of 275hp and 50def (rough calculation as base end gives like 1def or so, compared to free stats which gives 0.5def). Well, going 25spr and full int or just full int/spr might be nice too for fast clearance, but there is alot higher risks of dying if you grind with the aoe method(there is always a chance that the fighter will lose aggro due to your high dmg coupled with magic burst, theres a possiblity u could wipe them out before they turn on you though..), hope this helps out. Phoenix....cant remeber the number behind his nick..is a Pure END mage if i'm not wrong..maybe he could share with us his view.

Ledah
Lv52 Mage

[Kholai]

The primary failing of Endurance mages is the lack of the shield. Block % saves more health for me than the defence does.

However, since mages have no means of self-healing (only one class does, admittedly), every hit is one which they must either rest to recover, or use a potion to heal.
So, when soloing, all damage a mage takes is somehow economic. Either they stop to rest, and don't get any loot in that time, or they use a potion, which they must pay for somehow.
The solution to this is to deal more damage rather than take more hits before needing to heal. Against appropriate enemies, a mage ideally needs only to survive one or two hits at best before they keel over. Any more is wasted.

With a healer or a tanker party (preferably both), the need for Endurance is substantially less. Should one take aggro (an unfortunate occurrence, yet unavoidable sometimes), then a quick Invincibility spell (or taunt by the fighter) will salve the problem for long enough to recover the situation, and dealing more damage in the interim reduces the number of hits taken by comrades, saving on SP or potions.

A mage's primary task, indeed the only one they do better than everyone else, is to deal the damage. Everything they add to that doesn't help them deal damage hurts them in a party, and since taking damage is risky at the best of times for a mage (made of paper), it's best to limit that however you can.


The other issue with adding to endurance is that, unlike Fighters and Clerics, who get a healthy amount of automatic Endurance every level to bolster their lifestyle as front-liners, Mages do not. At level 52, I believe you will have perhaps +19 Endurance. 95 HP. A tiny fraction of that Endure boost you get.

[s3ngoku]

Hmm..true 95hp is not alot..if they 19 pts should go into int..it would be equal to 22.8dmg..im not sure whether it will give a full 22.8dmg increasement on the spells you use on the monster as i had seen quite a number of mages saying that they can hardly notice the damage increase.

I'm atually including the stats boost on rings and equipments that gives END as compared to Int.
Well, sometimes when the mobs turn on you, even if the fighter mock it again..they might still targets you..I think that non END mage (no END on rings and equipments too) would have around 1.7k-1.8k hp at my level with Lv1/2 Endure and Tier1 Vitality, while i had like 2k-2.1k hp. Aoeing at CP or Pixy and Archon Juinor with a tank and cleric, with a lure of 5-10mobs..with each monster dealing an average of 180-200dmg(depending on the buff, party size..)..even if they do turn aggro on you..it would be quite safe as the cleric have enough time to heal or invincible you if needed.

However, Aoeing at Blue Clover Trumpy is alot harder as they had more health and would most probably turn aggro on you after sometimes. With each of them hitting 300+(sometimes they hit all at the same time and i would instantly lose 1.7k hp)..the cleric in the party might not be able to heal you in time as they probably would be focusing on healing the fighter, resulting in a loss of 10k+ exp =/...thats with a lure of like 7-10 mobs though which i had done before in Rukia_2ND's party..kinda risky..but the experience rack in through this is around 4k each lure and usually could be clear in 30-40sec(with only 1 mage in party)
I'm sure that this would only get harder later on when Aoeing on mobs that are higher level than trumpy(by then i think everyone would starts using Tier2 or 3 Vitality scrolls maybe..lets see when the time comes when the Lv Capped is remove..)

[KireiYosei]

I see adding END pointless to mages. Sure, we can take afew more hits, but its not that much. Its not like we could tank anyways. When in parties we usually stand back and nuke.
Adding to END is nothing afew scrolls can do ^o^

[Roxias]

I see adding END pointless to mages. Sure, we can take afew more hits, but its not that much. Its not like we could tank anyways. When in parties we usually stand back and nuke.
Adding to END is nothing afew scrolls can do ^o^
I see all +stat points except for SPR to be pointless for all classes. Make a full SPR mage (yes, go past +25), pop some scrolls, an extender (optional, pretty much just insures you're invincibility), get a few cleric buffs, and go have yourself some AOE fun. Going all SPR allows you to easily take on magical enemies, so go do it.

[s3ngoku]

I see adding END pointless to mages. Sure, we can take afew more hits, but its not that much. Its not like we could tank anyways. When in parties we usually stand back and nuke.
Adding to END is nothing afew scrolls can do ^o^

Oh..my point of saying is not that we Mages can tank, its as you say, we can take afew more hits (2-3hit more is crucial in AOE grinds). Yup...in parties where the party take out mobs 1 by 1, mage usually would stand back and nuke, thus i had not talk about it, and instead pinpointed AOE grinding instead, where mages have to go upfront and Magic Burst.

I had went to ask a non END mage (not even END ring) PhanThunder (Lv50 or 51..im not sure) and her base hp is around 900+, while my base hp is around 1.3k+(Lv53)..and the difference of the hp and def could determine whether you will be died should the mobs aggro goes towards you during AOE grinding. With Endure and Vit scroll, non END mage Hp can reach 1.5-1.6k while i can reach 2k-2.1k..and trust me..1.5k hp had a high chance of dying when AOEing at blue clover trumpy (a lure of around 10..i had tried it).

Hmm..Roxias i agree with you that spirit is the stats that really matter, I had like around 19 End and 39 Spirit(cant rmb if its 39..im at work now >_>)..going full spr is somewhat nice, however i hope everyone knows thats SPR ring is kinda crappy as it doesnt gives critical..INT ring dmg boost is also little(from what i had seen in the ultimate mage guide thread), thus END ring is definitely the way to go as 2 +15 END ring(theres better END ring i know..but this is more economical) would gives 150hp and 35-40def(around there).

[takixd]

OMG u kidding me? END pts are like near useless to us mages..

i agree that there are lots of PTs..we just stay a little away from the mobs and nuke..unless ur PT goes crazy doing AoE..

plus..i would rather choose a full INT mage over my SPR mage rather than having an END mage <3 ..no offense meant..

HF all

[Flashrave]

*facepalm*

this thread is about soloing.

And a PARTIAL end build.

LURK more before posting!

[Patchouli]

Soloing, just my opinion...

In the scenario of full END, 55 End buys you 275 hp. That's roughly one hit, or 1.5 hits depending on what you fight at the level you'd be at to be able to put 55 End. However, since you're now doing 66 less damage per shot (assuming 55 Int), the monster takes longer to kill, and I estimate (from memory, and personal experience) that you'd take at least an extra hit (or two) as a result, in the extra time needed to kill it, after the monster has reached you. For the first monster, that's a break-even, since the additional pool has soaked it up, but for every monster thereafter you'd be losing out.

I totally agree with using +End rings though, they are basically just as good as special END points for mage purposes, while everything else (except DEX) lacks the bonus that makes it desireable.

[Kadenze]

@S3ngoku - There's no way there could be a 600 hp difference between a END and non-END mage even at level 50+. 600 hp translates to a 120 END difference, and that's not possible even with all your stat points in END at level 59 (64 points). 64 END points = 320 extra hp. Even if you add END rings into the picture (which don't count, since the thread was about your build, not your equipment) and assume that you have double +15 END rings, that's still only a total difference of 94 END. Also, do a quick check on your math - if 10 trumpies each hitting 300+ all hit you at the same time, that's not a 1.7k hp loss, that's 3k, which means you're dead, END or not.

That being said, my personal view on END for mages is all or nothing. Either you seriously pump END or just leave it alone. I'll agree that lots of END can be useful for aoeing if you're really concerned about dying, but adding little bits of END here and there is just a waste of points. Pure END (or close to pure) is definitely a viable build IMO, though in my experience damage-build mages are more welcome in parties, it's really dependent on your individual preference.

Personally I have a grand total of 0 points in END and never really had much problem surviving, but then again my cleric and fighter friends are uber-pro. ;) Furthermore, there are any number of adjustments (combo timing, for example) that can be made to prevent you drawing too much aggro at one time. Also keep in mind that END mages may be able to claim a bit more safety while AoEing higher level monsters, but since your overall damage is lower when you hit stronger mobs, the relative boost from defense-ignoring INT points increases.

[DemonEyeKyo]

phoenix is full end lvl 57 and hes doing great.... lot depend of ur equipment also... i also think mage purpose is only dmg dealer... but... eh... just another way to play a mage

DemonEyeKyo

[chelekat]

phoenix is full end lvl 57 and hes doing great.... lot depend of ur equipment also... i also think mage purpose is only dmg dealer... but... eh... just another way to play a mage

DemonEyeKyo

lol, this coming from the guy who likes tanking three things at a time. :P

[s3ngoku]

@S3ngoku - There's no way there could be a 600 hp difference between a END and non-END mage even at level 50+. 600 hp translates to a 120 END difference, and that's not possible even with all your stat points in END at level 59 (64 points). 64 END points = 320 extra hp. Even if you add END rings into the picture (which don't count, since the thread was about your build, not your equipment) and assume that you have double +15 END rings, that's still only a total difference of 94 END. Also, do a quick check on your math - if 10 trumpies each hitting 300+ all hit you at the same time, that's not a 1.7k hp loss, that's 3k, which means you're dead, END or not.

That being said, my personal view on END for mages is all or nothing. Either you seriously pump END or just leave it alone. I'll agree that lots of END can be useful for aoeing if you're really concerned about dying, but adding little bits of END here and there is just a waste of points. Pure END (or close to pure) is definitely a viable build IMO, though in my experience damage-build mages are more welcome in parties, it's really dependent on your individual preference.

Personally I have a grand total of 0 points in END and never really had much problem surviving, but then again my cleric and fighter friends are uber-pro. ;) Furthermore, there are any number of adjustments (combo timing, for example) that can be made to prevent you drawing too much aggro at one time. Also keep in mind that END mages may be able to claim a bit more safety while AoEing higher level monsters, but since your overall damage is lower when you hit stronger mobs, the relative boost from defense-ignoring INT points increases.


I did not mention anything about 600hp difference...this is what i said.

I think that non END mage (no END on rings and equipments too) would have around 1.7k-1.8k hp at my level with Lv1/2 Endure and Tier1 Vitality, while i had like 2k-2.1k hp.

It simply means 300 Hp( Probably with END RING) -400 Hp (NO END RING, I had compared with a Lv51 or 51 Mage just 2 days back) differences or so.
Please do your mathematics before accusing.

*Note that 55 END not only give 285hp..Please take into account the defense increasement as well..Its around 40-45defense if im not wrong..cause the base END from earring and gear bonus give more than 0.5def increasement.*
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check on your math - if 10 trumpies each hitting 300+ all hit you at the same time, that's not a 1.7k hp loss, that's 3k, which means you're dead, END or not
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Alright..maybe u had not tried Aoeing grinding before..but i had never encountered 10 trumpies hitting on me at 1 go, by the time they turn their aggro on me..i would have probably taken down around 3 down with some dying faster then others cause i use my single targeting spells on them while Magic Burst is undergoing coolodown. While the fighter would probably be using Snearing Kick, sometimes 1 or 2 mob would still be under control. The most that ever hit me at one go is about 6 and i had like 200-300hp left.

Yup..i had notice there is a timing on Magic Burst which prevent you from drawing too much aggro..but that would also mean you arent spamming your Magic Burst continously (I think so..?Unless you means other timing and combo)..which make us match even somehow at the damage rate of clearing the mobs.

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Well, being PURE END would be nice i agree. There are PURE END mages in the China Fiesta server from what i had read up in their forum. But with me putting points into spirit just like how the large numbers of mages going Int SPR, the theory is just the same.

Well, I'm not impying that END is the right way to go..every player has their own preferences..so..yea..lets just enjoy fiesta..no hard feeling :)

PS* Oops sorry..i wasnt aware this was a thread on soloing..

[rocksteal]

I rely one scroll and healing items to cover the mages weakness i went from level 1 to 13 in a few hours

[Zealius]

Lower levels are easy rocksteal.

Though this has me wondering, how effective is Dex for Dodging attacks?

[Seida]

I made my mage an all-out END...except for when I was a n00b my first level and put something into attack. It works well for me, but I definitely rely on my stones and vitality scrolls to get by the day. I solo. Period. I am not social or reliable to party. It works for me. IT CAN WORK FOR YOU!! :D I find no problems except when I get mobbed, then I just RUN!!! The #1 best thing about full END is that I can afford to wait around for my skills to recharge while the beasts and whatnot are wailing on me. Everything else...too redundant