totally not fair, cool or whatever other word u can use

[ramon246]

okay, lets get this started. Today i compared my stats( lvl 32 fighter) to a fellow guild mate(lvl 31 Cleric) and i realized that the fighters have really been unfaired, let me elaborate.....


My Stats--------Hers*
str 125+9-----------102
dex 77---------------68
end 110+28---------77+18
int 23---------------45
spr 50--------------65+18

dmg 298-356---------349-394
aim 158---------------165
M.dmg 27-----------------87
M.def 117----------------212
def 238-----------------284
evasion 163-----------------152

*n.b - her stats are taken with the lvl 3 buff which most/if not all clerics keep on them 24/7
n.b.b - she is one(1) lvl lower than me
n.b.b.b - i use 2 handed sword, she uses hammer

at 1st glance it looks like i have no complaint as it is clear that my stats are better than her, but thats at 1st glance.

Our(fighters) main jobs are either to tank or be damagers, they(clerics) are suppose to be support, now some may argue that we(fighters) have attacking skills but if you are gonna tank offense and damage isn't that important, you're just supposed to hold the mobs long enough for your party to kill them, now as a 1:2 str:def fighter i find it highly offensive that a cleric can do my job just as good or better than me, how many times has a fighter been put in the background because a cleric their lvl or 1 or 2 lvls higher makes a better tank than him/her.Now i believe this shouldn't be so, i mean each class has it own specialty and each brings something different to the table but the only thing that gives a fighter the edge over the cleric in tanking is that the fighter can gain and hold aggro better, sure we do more damage with our offensive skills but if we wanted to damage we wouldn't be tanking, now i know my argument is all over the place since i'm doing this off the head and out of frustration a little but as more comes to me i'll edit and improve.

All in all what i'm trying to say is that clerics pwn fighters in every form, fashion and colour, they even dance better than we do.I for one as a tank(sorta) don't like being up shown by my (supposed to be) support, it's just pure blasphemy. If you have anything to add to my case it'll be appreciated.

[Tamlinari]

I think you have a valid point.
Really I do.
I think you should get that changed.
Make that happen.
:D

[Syrlith]

I'm a cleric all the way, but I concur with the stats being a tad... off. We get very few offencive skills, but still, its unbalanced.

[Aquabelle]

I don't find it that shocking. The Cleric class in this game isn't your run-of-the-mill wuss White Mage. It's like a D&D Cleric more then your average mmo one. CoN had Clerics like this too. I think you're expecting too much of a White Mage out of this class. I will admit the stats are close, but there is nothing wrong with that. Sure, I can go try and tank stuff; but 9/10 times I'm going to lose hate and someone will die. Clerics are built that way for soloing rather then tanking, if you ask me. We can do it; but you can do it a hell of a lot better. A tank isn't just someone who can take a hit. It's someone who can take all the hits, and not let the mob go astray for some squishy little mage in the corner. Clerics can't really do that.
Now as for people having a Fighter step aside for a Cleric tank; like in a KQ; sometimes it is for the better. If there is a level 20 fighter in my Gold Hill KQ who wants to tank over me (those are my clerics stats up there, btw), and there are no other tankers.. guess what? He's not tanking. Now if there is a level 30 (I'm 31) with a little less def, please, by all means do tank. I don't have the hp. I wouldn't unless I went full END. And there are some Clerics who do go full END.. But I still wouldn't want them tanking over the level 30 though.
All in all I've just repeated it in a lot of different ways. Yes, we are a lot alike stat wise; but job wise we honeslty aren't. Although I might end up with ten more def., it's not going to mean much when the boss is wailing on my 790 hp. :)

Also, you forgot to add I have +10STR and +8END from my rings. :p Good thing I wasn't wearing my ZK Mace when you asked my stats.. xD

[aegrimonia]

People have a bad misconception that clerics are weaklings.. like a previous poster said.. traditional DnD has clerics as very tough fighters who wear plate armor and have to use blunt weapons.

Fighters have multiple damage skills, where as we only get BASH.. plus you have stun (which should be a cleric skill actually.. stun is a standard cleric ability since we are using blunt weapons).. I hope we get shield stun when we are Paladins.

[Aquabelle]

I hope we get shield stun when we are Paladins.
Amen. xD Not gonna happen though; fighters would go crazy. ;)

[Littlebird]

See Paladins.

[cryragon]

I won't say anything about this until these informations are clarified:


Both have same equips that on par
Both don't use any scroll buffs
Both know how to use their characters properly, this including how to make full use of Toughness, Vitality, Protect, Resist, etc.

Also what you have written might change if the aforementioned fighter is in party with the said cleric.

[ramon246]

I won't say anything about this until these informations are clarified:


Both have same equips that on par
Both don't use any scroll buffs
Both know how to use their characters properly, this including how to make full use of Toughness, Vitality, Protect, Resist, etc.

Also what you have written might change if the aforementioned fighter is in party with the said cleric.

we both have our armour uo to date
the cleric has on the level 3 buff which most clerics keep on all the time
i believe we both know how to use our characters

[Aquabelle]

Honestly I have to agree with leaving him without the buff. I thin of my buff as more of a second kind of armor. I have it up ALL THE TIME. It is always avaliable to me. Like a second skin... or armor.
Fighters don't get that on their own., and this is his argument that it's not balanced with Fighters&Clerics. Even though I am against that statement; I do see where he is coming from. I didn't have any scrolls on at the time, either. :)
I'm honeslty interested in what people think about this.. no one I've seen seems to know the difference between what to do when a Fighter is tank or a Cleric..

[Forbin]

Posting as a Cleric (Level 27), it pains me to say that Clerics do indeed need some sort of nerf. I'd hate to ruin my solo ability, but this is a balance issue with the game.

I believe giving Clerics a few specialized attack spells in exchange for lowered defense would make more sense. Perhaps the standard "Turn Undead" series, or as someone else said, stun spells. Another option would be to create a spell line of a regular magical DD, and base it on SPR, but it would have to be no more than half as strong as an equal leveled mage's spells.

All of the above are suggestions which rely upon a decrease in defense as an exchange.

[Drium]

Not fair? It's entirely fair, because those stats mean NOTHING.

I remember when I leveled this warrior from 15 to 25. Green, and some yellow mobs, were hitting me for ONE DAMAGE, sometimes 2~5, and the elites (such as boogy knights) were barely hitting for 30. Full end tank, with shield.

My cleric. Half-end half-spirit, with a better shield than my fighter had (+5), and enhanced armor +1 ~ +4 depends on the part, PLUS my cleric buffs.. is getting hit for 20~25 by green mobs, 30~40 by yellow mobs, and 75 by boogy knights.

People THINK that the stats are everything, but there is definitely some form or another of damage mitigation stat hidden from us built-in into the classes, because there is definitely a HUGE difference on the damage my characters are taking.

-> A fighter with a shield will take less damage than a cleric with a shield, even if their armor is nigh-equal.
-> A fighter will deal much more damage than a cleric because of skills.
-> A fighter can reduce enemy defense, attack damage and attack speed. A cleric cannot.
-> A fighter can taunt.

There is absolutely nothing unfair about a GIANT HAMMER hitting harder than your sword. It's also SLOWER, however, and they only have ONE skill to use it. Therefore, they are not actually hitting faster than you.

Lastly, if you want to whine about a cleric having more defense than you, put on a shield before you compare. You can't say it's unfair if you're using non-END build with a 2h sword and then whine about defenses.

[Sinistrel]

Well buddy here's your problem. You're playing your character incorrectly. See as a fighter you either Tank or DPS. Like in any other mmo you can not do both without gimping one form or the other.

No by the look of your stats you have invested most of your points in END with a few in STR...

That's an ok Tank build but would be better of with the 9 points not being wasted in STR and instead spent in END.

Now there is also the option of DEX or SPR. I would lean towards SPR if you want to stray from END just because a little extra magic Def. is allways nice. DEX might be worth the chance to hit (aim) and evasion. Having your abilities hit contributes to your overall threat due to damage and evasion helps keep you alive. But seeing 1h swords have great aim and a full END fightercantake the hit its not worth it.

But as I have seen full END takes the cake for Fighter tanks. If it's a magical enemy the cleric with all its mighty SPR can allways mitigate its attacks much better.

Tanks should be using a shield and 1h sword. As you were using a 2h sword with a half baked tank build of course a cleric is going to out stat you.
Now if you wanted to go dps 2h style use a build thats about 75% STR and 25% SPR. That will get you some awesome crits and have you hitting hard.

[aegrimonia]

Well buddy here's your problem. You're playing your character incorrectly. See as a fighter you either Tank or DPS. Like in any other mmo you can not do both without gimping one form or the other.

No by the look of your stats you have invested most of your points in END with a few in STR...

That's an ok Tank build but would be better of with the 9 points not being wasted in STR and instead spent in END.

Now there is also the option of DEX or SPR. I would lean towards SPR if you want to stray from END just because a little extra magic Def. is allways nice. DEX might be worth the chance to hit (aim) and evasion. Having your abilities hit contributes to your overall threat due to damage and evasion helps keep you alive. But seeing 1h swords have great aim and a full END fightercantake the hit its not worth it.

But as I have seen full END takes the cake for Fighter tanks. If it's a magical enemy the cleric with all its mighty SPR can allways mitigate its attacks much better.

Tanks should be using a shield and 1h sword. As you were using a 2h sword with a half baked tank build of course a cleric is going to out stat you.
Now if you wanted to go dps 2h style use a build thats about 75% STR and 25% SPR. That will get you some awesome crits and have you hitting hard.

touche

couldn't have said it better myself.