Your Opinion Matters!!: Kq leeching [Archive]

klasd

03-15-2009, 08:27 PM

Basically what this is is a thread where you post your opinion on the Topic of choice. Feel free to rebut or counter someone else's opinion but please do it kindly and respectfully. And, please... NO FLAMING

Rules:
1. Always remember a persons opinion is their own, and there are no right or wrong ones

2. If you wish to counter someones opinion, again do it polietly and with respect

3. Try to stay on topic

I would like this to be a thread where people can speak freely and view different aspects of fiesta from anothers eyes so have fun with it ;D

Weekly topic-
Kingdon Quest Leeching

either answer in general and tell my your outlook on it or give your opinion on one of the various scenarios below

scenario #1

basic leeching, A person Joins a KQ soon as it starts recruiting then they afk. while everyone else works on winning the KQ they sit there and do nothing. They will either fail with everyone else or reap the same rewards everyone else who put in an effort did. Should this be allowed? If not how would you resolve it?

scenario #2

A person in uru hears a shout to join Spider KQ. They see it only needs one more person to join in order for it to start, they wait a minute see that no one has joined so join the kq to get it started. But this person decides they dont wanna participate in the KQ so they sit Afk in their shroom while the others run ahead and complete the Kingdom Quest. Does this change anything? Doesnt the fact that they had the intention of starting the KQ faster for everyone else allow them to leech? Or is this the same as scenario #1?

scenario #3

A random person bored, roaming around uruga opens their KQ list and notices that a KKP KQ has only 12 members and is going to start in less than a minute. They decide to join and leech the KQ while the others go ahead and win. Because it would have been no different with or without the leecher since they are not taking a spot from anyone else, does it make it fair or right?

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Feel free to answer any questions you wish or just give your ideas on leeching

have fun and remember to be respectful

*A New Topic Will Be Posted Weekly*

Leeching Definition- (taken from poster) "A act in which a player takes no steps to help advance the goal of any involved parties, excepting wherein the inactive player receives a reward for the efforts of others." ~ Cercia

if you would like to counter or edit this also feel free too

FlashBoom

03-15-2009, 08:47 PM

leechers are like spammers, what ever you do they will find way around it lol

my only idea is that if you stay in same spot w/o moving for 5min+ it boots you from kq, they can put someone on follow, but that person can relog leaving the leecher staying still lol.

thats about the only idea i can think of that really wouldnt hurt ne one but leechers

but ya its kind of annoying when you only have like 8ppl in kq, and ppl are leeching...

mehe25

03-15-2009, 08:55 PM

Each senerio or any, I'd just report them and keep them off the Kq's if they keep leeching.

Fre_ak

03-15-2009, 08:57 PM

i would say..if u get reported X times for leaching in kq (with SS and all) then u will get banned from any kq for X time

bariban

03-15-2009, 09:05 PM

I don't really care if they leech as long as they don't auto-follow me which happens so often lately. It's annoying that in every single kq, I'd have a tail on me. >.<

Lety23

03-15-2009, 09:42 PM

Ok, there was one time where I "leeched" the spider KQ.

I myself did not consider it leeching. Why?

I asked for a party several times and no one would party. The KQ was full and there was obviously a party with a slot open. Since I'm an archer and I mostly take the aggro (I have taken aggro in every KQ i've been in) I decided not to attack anything since the lack of a cleric and party would result in me losing a heart.

I did aoe every now and then. People accused me of leeching because I was just in my mushroom most of the time. But, what did they expect me to do? It was kind of selfish that no one would invite me to their party when there was obviously room.

As for actual leechers: Seriously, you're wasting people's efforts. Every person can help out and if you're just going in to leech, don't join at all.

It's different, however, if someone just goes afk for a long time. Going afk is common especially when it's something very important and cannot wait. But, if you're going afk, you should warn the people in the KQ, and your party, that you are going afk so they dont think you are leeching.

twiztedcriminal

03-15-2009, 09:52 PM

i dont mind a leech or 2, but its not good when most of the people in the KQ are leeches. that usually results in a fail.

fxarch

03-15-2009, 10:27 PM

Leeching is wrong, no matter the circumstances, unless it's Like Lety's Situation where It can't be helped.

My ideas at the moment are either a Minimum amount of activity required, or a minimum amount of damage required.
another idea I have heard is for kqs that you leave the spawn point Aka, Md slime Honeying Gold hill and Mara (there may be more, but Iunno) that the spawn point gets swamped with a high level monster with an aoe, it clears the area, and all is good.

Or alternativey you need to be within a certain range of the boss monster to win.

some idea, probably not very good, but there's my post.

stringfellowhawk

03-15-2009, 10:44 PM

as for leeching ithink after he second gate is opened the first should close and they would have to get the key to reopen it as to the rewards they should only be given to the one at the last stage if your not in the fighting area of the KQ when it is over then you dot get any rewards
also asto fellowing if they do that let them get hit and they will top i know i did it when iwas getting plvled and got hit and i stoped fellowing

palmfruits

03-15-2009, 10:53 PM

scenario #2

A person in uru hears a shout to join Spider KQ. They see it only needs one more person to join in order for it to start, they wait a minute see that no one has joined so join the kq to get it started. But this person decides they dont wanna participate in the KQ so they sit Afk in their shroom while the others run ahead and complete the Kingdom Quest. Does this change anything? Doesnt the fact that they had the intention of starting the KQ faster for everyone else allow them to leech? Or is this the same as scenario #1?

If the person decides that they don't wnat to participate in the KQ, then I have a few words for that person: SUCK IT UP. You started this, now end it. Think about everyone else. If you leech because you ended up not wanting to partcipate after all, then you're pretty selfish. Think about the others who aare spending THEIR time to play this game. What if they rarely have time to pplay? Now you're here guaranteeing a fail because you don't want to participate after all? Grow up and be more considerate of the people behind thte pixels. (Sorry for anger x.x it kind of built up -.-)

In this case the person IS a leech because they're doing what's happening in Scenario I. The person is just shrooming and make repa the rewards of the KQ. Sure the person INTENDED to join the KQ, but intending to do something and actually doing it are 2 different actions. Might as well just suicide out if you really don't want to be there u.u

scenario #3

A random person bored, roaming around uruga opens their KQ list and notices that a KKP KQ has only 12 members and is going to start in less than a minute. They decide to join and leech the KQ while the others go ahead and win. Because it would have been no different with or without the leecher since they are not taking a spot from anyone else, does it make it fair or right?

This is still unfair. It makes a difference if the leecher helps. Every piece of man power helps, right? Sure they didn't take a spot since no one else was joining, but everyone has a part they must fulfill, and the leacher wasn't helping. The leecher is getting the credit for just being there and not working.

short-life

03-16-2009, 12:53 AM

leechers should be banned...i've been experiencing it too...some1's following me where ever i go in kq..even if u asked them they dont care n follow u...luring more monsters..as if i am in holiday n have lots of time to spend kill those monsters n my clerics in party has free sp stones to keep hp up for all of us...what more they not ur party member too so cant do anything like banning them from party ...they even ask for revive if they died.....there's a limit...if only i had a power at that time i would have definetely
banned him to join a kq for at least a month just for warning...if he continued for a whole year then...

every time i go to kq... i buy t3 scrolls n t3 hp pots.. cauz i m a fighter n loves to tank...every1 knows their price...making so much efforts just to complete it...well i kinda expect same from rest who joins kq too..if u dont wanna buy scrolls n hp pots thats fine but at-least if u r cleric heal some...if u r mages or archer...worring abt dying then do few attacks just to make sure u wont attract boss..but at-least attack some...even 1 dmg of 200 to boss will make the burden of others trying harder little lower..if u r a fighter has less def then dont attack boss..help us by attacking others that appears around boss...ur def must be sufficient for that...

what to say when they dont understad...n leeches of every kind is just annoying n same...well there r times when u want to fight but couldnt get party or any cleric in party..or sometimes cleric leeches then u dont have choice..u cant fight boss..but still at that time help others by defeating the minors of boss...atleast just dont keep running n stay safe ...just think it as helping as charity..if u fails there's always a next time...its not like its done for forever...if passed ur hardwork will be paid..

and as for punishing leechers..if they r on ur party asked them to help couple of times..still not doing anything...banned them from party...at least dont give them credits for ur party works...well i think there must be a place to complain for leechers....like if u saw same guy leeching for abt 5 kqs report there n they'll take some appropriate actions ...idk if there is already or not..if there is can any1 tell me where is it n how to complain n what should be minimum no of leeches the person has done to complain....

YoshimaruOrona

03-16-2009, 02:32 AM

Personal opinion:

Intentional leechers = Complete failures as players

Lety's example is what I like to call "accidental leeching". What I mean by that is, if you go in a kq wanting to help the others succeed, but an in-game or irl obstacle is too large to overcome, then fine, you can leech.

For example, in KKP I ended up having to give up my party spot to a fighter so that he would willingly tank (Nobody else would make space ~.~). What ultimately happens is that ghost slime pwns the crap out of me twice, and since clerics wouldn't give me a revive, I just decided to leech between the ghost slime spawn and the robo spawn.

I tried to help, and ultimately the group failed me, not the other way around. Does that make it leeching? I say no.

So basically, idc if the kq was going to start with empty slots or if the kq needed one more person to start faster. Anyone who goes in with the intention of leeching fails. People are putting work, scrolls, stones, time, and skill into finishing the kq, and Mr. Leech who left his computer to watch television or play his Xbox is still getting a treasure box.

akarih

03-16-2009, 03:52 AM

LEECHERS DIE bwahahaa~~~!
Leeching is leeching, no matter which scenario. The only excuse for leeching is like mentioned above, when you got no choice but to leech to stay alive. I would expect the person to at least attack a bit, dodge a bit, let us know he is actually around. Every little attack counts.

I remember once, during a GH KQ, this person in our party suddenly just went stagnant and didn't move. We called out to her, but no reply. Technically, if you get a lag/dc, you would log out or something right? She just stayed there. But anyway, it's all fine, until we found the key for one of the gates. And because we didn't put item allocation to free allocation... I think the key went to her. =_= So yeah, KQ failed. (I am quite sure that is what happened, because the key was just in front of me, though of course, I have no definite proof.)

There needs to be an official way of banning these guys. Maybe once the GM accumulated a number of reports (from different players) of this leecher, he will be banned for a week. If he persists, he's outta of the game.

Daevor

03-16-2009, 03:52 AM

scenario #4
Players join KQ after KQ (specifically KKP), and they never move from the spawn points. However, as soon as the KQ is over, voila! they join the next one, and do the same.

I think those of us in 7x know of quite a few such players. I was quite surprised to find out over the weekend that a certain player (can't name him because of blacklisting) is actually a mage. I have often (very often) seen his name in the KQ list of the same KQ I am particiating in, but I had actually never seen him before!

We need a KQ ban feature, where if enough players inside the KQ agree, they can collectively ban a leecher. For example, a message box like party invite will pop up, saying: "DaevorTheDevoted has requested a ban on IizNubIl33ch. Do you agree?", with "yes" and "no" options. If two thirds of the remaining players in the KQ agree, poof! to Roumen the leecher goes.

evieevie

03-16-2009, 06:14 AM

I leeched once, it was kkp. I joined the minute recruiting started. It wasnt filling up so i decided to go and look for shrooms in AEW. I got sleepy while doing this so i just shroomed somewhere safe and thought id just shut my eyes for a minute lol. Next minute i wake up and realise id been asleep for an hour and a half lmao. I look at the screen and im standing in elde spawn spot. A little confused i wonder how i got there, then remembered i had joined the kq. I looked in my inventory and saw i had a chest. I looked at my whisper to find a couple of whispers from friends who had gone to the same kq. They had asked if i wanted to party with them.
I whispered them bk and apologised told them what had happened. I felt so guilty i shared the chests contents between the friends who had gone to the kq to lol!

lenore_lurks

03-16-2009, 06:30 AM

Leeching in regular KQ's really irritates me if I see it come from the same players. Sometimes you can't help but leech, but the chances of such situations happening are very low. The majority of players who leech know what they're doing and simply don't care. KKP leeching is a big problem.

I also want to throw out there leeching in pvp kq. Sometimes I've gone in there and just gone afk - because I know what the result will be. There are a few select players who duke it out and regularly win, and I know I can't compete in a fair fight when they charm and are extended to heck. And you get exp even if you come last soooo... sometimes I just don't bother.

Any opinions on pvp kq leeching?

evieevie

03-16-2009, 06:37 AM

zephyr_wind

03-16-2009, 08:01 AM

I have no respect for intentional leeching, but I did what Lety described and Orona described as 'accidental leeching'. It bothers me so much that people don't want to party someone asking for one and they have space. But if that person decided to shroom for self-preservation they get all kinds of things said to them. KQ's are about teamwork and not partying someone whose not trying to leech when you have space is showing you have a lack of it imo. I was in a spider and there was someone who got a slow load and missed out on a pt. Mine was actually full, but I felt so bad that they'd been asking for a pt for about 5 minutes and no one partied them, that I gave up my own spot. I was only there to help my friend get their quest done kill but even so like it would've killed someone to right click and go to send party invite. -_-

truegamer1000

03-16-2009, 08:08 AM

There should be someway to make participation essential for getting any bonuses. Like how much damage you do, how much you healed, how much of your skills you had to use, or how much of your resources like scrollls, stones, and potions you had to use.

klasd

03-16-2009, 08:12 AM

Great answers everyone tonns and tonns of great responses!

=P yet is anyone brave enough to speak out in defence of a leecher :o?
be back in a few hours to read more

YoshimaruOrona

03-16-2009, 10:19 AM

Any opinions on pvp kq leeching?

I actually wasn't thinking about this originally, but here goes..

PvP KQ is special in the sense that rather than relying on teamwork, you're relying on yourself. (55-69 and 75-89 have some alliances, but the main idea is essentially to "watch your own back")

And in the case of my mage (the most fail PvP char I have), if I do try, then what happens is I accumulate 20+ deaths and anywhere between 0~3 kills. Then at the end, everybody gets rewards, and I get nothing because my score total was below 5000. Even though I tried.

Not very fair :(

And actually, afk'ing in PvP KQ helps out the other contestants by giving them the occassional "free kill". So even though it's leeching, it's actually beneficial to everybody else.

Win-win leeching ftw ^.^

ffron

03-16-2009, 10:30 AM

Ok I don't ffel like reading all the quotes so if this was said sorry for repeating. IMHO I think that if a leecher is inactive for a certain amount of time or doesnt catch up to the party and fight or participate in anyway then there should be something that eliminates them from the KQ. Now as for PVP KQ I can see where ppl go afk so a team mate can get the kill. Thats fine with me cause I sometimes end up coming across them and killing them, but as for MD, KKP etc there should be actions being taken

ffron

03-16-2009, 10:35 AM

lol klasd, they wont speak out cause unless actions are taken they wont care and just keep doing it

julio661

03-16-2009, 11:54 AM

i have to admit i leeched once.
it was earlier today.

i had too i had no hearts no clerics and no stones.
what else am i supposed to do.
so i didnt fight.
and as soon as i went in my house.
people started saying rude comments and calling me lazy.

morale of the story is remember to restone or you'll get cursed out .-.

whatever1234567

03-16-2009, 01:48 PM

Really i hate leeching and in any other KQ other them KKP they should burn. But honestly in KKP i can't blame anyone for leeching. Why? because its the worst KQ EVER! Its so boring its run for 10-15 minutes then tank for the rest i'm lvl 77 and have maybe done it about 10 times now i'd rather grind my brains out which turns out to be more fun then KKP. Really hopeing when i hit 80 by this weekend gorden is more fun and from what i hear it is a ton of fun just really bad rewards.

YoshimaruOrona

03-16-2009, 01:55 PM

Gordon is actually much more interesting in comparison to KKP :)

The only two problems are how long it takes to recruit enough players and the rewards, as you mentioned. (You can count crappy exp as a 3rd problem if you like, but it's a kq reward, so idk)

But if nothing else, Gordon will keep you entertained ^^

whatever1234567

03-16-2009, 02:01 PM

Thank god and i bought my first +9 shield so it should be fun tanking it :D

DF001

03-16-2009, 02:14 PM

cercia

03-16-2009, 03:23 PM

I think there's a huge difference between "leeching" and, as has been dubbed, "accidental leeching."

I don't really think Lety or Orona's circumstances are leeching.

Other situations may arise that are similar to Lety and Orona's - in one Spider KQ, a friend of mine was in a guild that got warred. No one could heal her, so naturally, she died. Since no one could rev her, either, she was more or less forced to run and hide as much as possible. I don't feel like she leeched it at all. She did what she could with the circumstances provided to her.

Up until the point that they were forced into extremely cautious participation, all of them were trying to help.

Since a definition of leeching hasn't been established, only the symptoms, I'd like to propose one:
"A act in which a player takes no steps to help advance the goal of any involved parties, excepting wherein the inactive player receives a reward for the efforts of others."

So, a player who simply clicks follow and then goes afk is a leech. A player who doesn't even bother with that is a leech. A player who sends their character in, attacks once, then has them run back out isn't a leech by that definition, even if they do nothing the rest of the KQ.

Perhaps someone can better refine the definition, or refute it?

devin_nicolai

03-16-2009, 06:09 PM

Rules:

scenario #1

basic leeching, A person Joins a KQ soon as it starts recruiting then they afk. while everyone else works on winning the KQ they sit there and do nothing. They will either fail with everyone else or reap the same rewards everyone else who put in an effort did. Should this be allowed? If not how would you resolve it?

*A New Topic Will Be Posted Weekly*

1) So if you join a KQ and you have to go afk for some bazaar reason im just going to assume that your leeching

And theres no need for more threads.

klasd

03-16-2009, 07:59 PM

"A act in which a player takes no steps to help advance the goal of any involved parties, excepting wherein the inactive player receives a reward for the efforts of others."

Perhaps someone can better refine the definition, or refute it?

Added to first post so more attention is drawn to it =) great addition!
still waiting to hear an opinion from the opposite side xD~

DanielRizzo

03-16-2009, 08:06 PM

dark_maniac2349

03-16-2009, 08:07 PM

akarih

03-17-2009, 02:27 AM

I dont even bother going to pvp kq its not a fair fight :/ (yes im a cleric who sucks at vp lol). I know ppl go to it just to get the points and afk i dont see a problem with that though. They arent harming anyone elses chances by doing it there!

I don't think leeching counts for pvp kq. It's like, you are actually contributing just by standing there and getting killed (adding to the killer's rate lol). I took part in my 1st pvp kq yesterday, just to get a feel of what it is like, and I got killed in two shots, in the first few secs. After that, I figured I am just too weak, and waited for the countdown, revived, ran around for fun, healed myself a bit, got in a few hits, got killed and repeated the whole sequence again.

Oh well. At least the exp is good. :/

akarih

03-17-2009, 02:39 AM

yo, with yur opinion #3 whatever it is i think its totally right! like honestly why would it matter if you helped or not no matter wht its gunna have the same amount of dmg dealt and ppl attacking its just 1 more person in the KQ. and i dont see leeching as taking away peoples hard work or whatever u guys are saying i help my friends enough and do things already so why shouldnt i get a break every so often, get a free chest. ill help some kqs but if they can handle themselves why should i bother wasting my time to jsut finish what a minute faster?

That one person can make a big difference. Especially in a KQ that is highly time-sensitive, such as GH. That one person can help kill the enemies a bit faster, heal more people, mine around more for the key etc. Somebody else who genuinely want to take part in the KQ could have taken your spot and make the KQ go more smoothly.

If your friends can handle themselves, why would you need to take part in the KQ? O.o Just go somewhere else to grind. (Unless of course, everyone in the KQ is your friend and they just need your very presence, then I have nothing to say.)

klasd

03-17-2009, 07:49 AM

Dragonfly77

03-17-2009, 08:11 AM

Ok, I did leech once..maybe twice...yeah let's stick with twice. x_x

What happened was that I got into the Gold Hill KQ, and was all ready to fight, but I lagged really badly. I couldn't even mine fast enough. In the end, I gave my spot up in my party so I wouldn't leech that much, and shroomed the whole KQ. At least everyone understood. >.<

Second time was the rl afk leech, the excusable one. The KQ started, but I had to go afk, and when I finally came back the KQ was over. >.<;;

Sooo...lagged leech same as rl afk leech ya think?

Fre_ak

03-17-2009, 08:50 AM

If I don't get partied in the Spider KQ, I can't really do much. As a mage, my AoE's pull tons of aggro. So without a proper party with a cleric/fighter, I have no choice but to leech. I'm sure archers have this same problem.
u have 8lives in spider kq (if i remember) u should really be incompetent if u used them all in 30min (unless its a running kq). i always duo with my wife (fighter) or solo in spider kq and i never lost a kq yet because i used my hearts carefully. Also, if mages (and archers) are scared to get aggro..just dont aoe. u have other skills then magic burts and frost nova

What happened was that I got into the Gold Hill KQ, and was all ready to fight, but I lagged really badly. I couldn't even mine fast enough. In the end, I gave my spot up in my party so I wouldn't leech that much, and shroomed the whole KQ. At least everyone understood. >.<

Second time was the rl afk leech, the excusable one. The KQ started, but I had to go afk, and when I finally came back the KQ was over. >.<;;

Sooo...lagged leech same as rl afk leech ya think?
if u really didnt want to leach, u would have suicide or just simply log out. but u didnt, so the purpose of leaching its there..

Hades_Sith_Lord

03-17-2009, 09:32 AM

Leechers are leechers, and no matter what they are the worse thing in game after pkrs and spammers/scammers, like we have a "Lady_Leecher" on King kong Phino, all days, everyday, its just annoying this people should be jailed for 7 days and if they keep doing it, banned for life, its a dam situation u start with 15 people and end the kq with 8 or 7, and if you dont have party thats no excuse to sit down and do nothing its time from GMs to something else than show off and insult players

Dragonfly77

03-17-2009, 09:58 AM

if u really didnt want to leach, u would have suicide or just simply log out. but u didnt, so the purpose of leaching its there..

way I saw it I was already in the KQ; wouldn't matter if I suicide or not. I wasn't affecting anyone else. If I could suicide and give my spot to someone who wanted it, then yeah I'd do that. I didn't intend to leech upon entry.

Besides if you think about it, if I suicided I would have clomped up all of the monsters in one spot, making it harder to fight them. Better to leech.

YoshimaruOrona

03-17-2009, 10:24 AM

yo, with yur opinion #3 whatever it is i think its totally right! like honestly why would it matter if you helped or not no matter wht its gunna have the same amount of dmg dealt and ppl attacking its just 1 more person in the KQ. and i dont see leeching as taking away peoples hard work or whatever u guys are saying i help my friends enough and do things already so why shouldnt i get a break every so often, get a free chest. ill help some kqs but if they can handle themselves why should i bother wasting my time to jsut finish what a minute faster?

Helping your friends is different from leeching.

When you help a friend, you're doing the work, and they're getting their rewards. However, both of you agreed to it.

When you leech, you're getting rewards without doing anything. And everybody is spending money on scrolls and stones, and spending time, working to finish the KQ.

Leeching might not have any effect on the ability to finish the KQ, but it's entirely unfair to the rest of the group that a person gets both exp and a chest for sitting in a shroom for 20~30 minutes.

So, imo, the only way intentionally leeching is fine is if the other 9~19 participants say that whoever it is that wants to leech can leech. But since that never happens, my opinion is that leechers need to gtfo of KQ's and stop getting free rides on everybody else's efforts.

Note: A break every now and then is fine, but don't do it at the expense of people who haven't agreed to it.

Miazma

03-17-2009, 11:06 AM

15 people start a KKQ, usually around 12 people actually participate in it. Out of that 12 people at least 3 of them are too squishy to do much so spend most of their time mushing. This means that most KKQ's are actually won by around 9 people. BUT the whole 15 get the chests.

I use 5 T4 scrolls to ensure I stay alive during a kkq to support my party, so why should others get a free ride? I dont care if its my best mate leeching, he/she will cop a mouth full from me. The saying *NO GUTS, NO GLORY* is very apt in this situation.

IF YOU DONT PARTICIPATE YOU DONT DESERVE THE REWARDS