Crossing the line [Archive]

foreverzero1313

03-22-2009, 02:30 PM

Morok

03-22-2009, 02:58 PM

vivirishere

03-22-2009, 03:00 PM

The OS crew Is pretty much fail , The only hard workers are really the CLS and CSR's (maybe)

They don't do regular maintenance, they don't do patch test servers, This is why the game is the way it is, and they can afford to do this stuff, just too lazy to do so.

Morok

03-22-2009, 03:04 PM

Celtic_Princess

03-22-2009, 03:04 PM

Does anyone else feel that outspark has gone overboard with the latest event?
Gifting a GM. Ok come on now. Why would we give our sc to an employee that can have anything they want with a click of a mouse? Making us pay for a server-wide xp boost. Are u serious????????

wait wait wait....lemme see if I've got this right:

The GM event asks you and your fellow million+ users to gift around 440 profile gifts for Silky's birthday in order for both the Fiesta AND Solstice servers to receive an EXP boost.

The minimum profile gift available for this event is 250sc. Now, that adds up to about 110,000. For everyone to get an exp boost. Now if I recall, the Fiesta store has a 7 day 20% boost available for 2795 sc.

110,000/2795= enough exp cards for about 40 people. Instead, for the same amount the entire Isyan world...as well as the Solstice community can get a 25% increase.

Yes. That sounds really greedy to me.

Btw, are you aware that you can obtain SC by completing free offers now? You don't even have to spend your hard earned cash.

FaytLeonheartOmega

03-22-2009, 03:09 PM

Tarrian

03-22-2009, 03:25 PM

hmm i don't rly see the point here.. If you spend sc on pots/pets/outfits etc etc you are doing that to upgrade ure char.. So i don't rly see whats so bad/diffrent to spend sc on gaining a server wide exp boost... It's kinda the same thing isn't it? ^.- Also you don't have to do it if you don't want to.. No one is pointing a gun at u > : )

Ciocolajs

03-22-2009, 03:36 PM

lmao just checked the free sc thingy that celtic was talking bout XD. TAlking bout hilarious xD.

Bonthra

03-22-2009, 04:00 PM

northmemphis

03-22-2009, 04:14 PM

lol thats what i was thinking but i didnt wanna say it :x

Celtic_Princess

03-22-2009, 04:16 PM

It's about percentages, right? If he has 10,000 friends, to get the exp boost, we need something like 5,000 people to gift him (I don't remember the percent that gives the best Exp boost and I'm too tired to look it up). If that's the case, and because I'm going to post this Silkypico's gonna hurt me, if you can't afford to gift him, unfriend him until after his birthday. If you can gift him, give him a gift. Bam! 100% gift-giving. Well, 99% because I've added him as a friend and I can't afford to give him a gift. XD

<3 Silkypico!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!exc lamation point!!!!!!!!!1!!!one!!!!!!!!!

Just to clear it up, Silky has around 4,000 friends.

The number of gifts needed to obtain the exp bonus is based on the number of friends he had when he started...not the ones that are added. I believe this comes to around 415 gifts, give or take a few.

You don't need to unfriend him, it won't change anything number wise.

Bonthra

03-22-2009, 05:21 PM

lol thats what i was thinking but i didnt wanna say it :x

XD It's evil. I know. But still, it's funny.

_Blankie_

03-22-2009, 06:26 PM

Another way outspark try to make money, any little penny they can squeeze out of you, they will. What comes around goes around, if outspark gift you something for your birthday, than gift them something back, if not than why bother who cares how little or big it is.

LilDebi

03-22-2009, 08:28 PM

EvenSmarterChild

03-22-2009, 09:20 PM

I got someone to wish me a happy belated birthday once, it was so nice. ^^

Ehh it's just an exp boost, a nonlvler like me dun really care~ It's not TOO hard to level if you put your mind to it.
<---- (Doesn't put her mind to it. -_-')

But what is this.... "SC stuff w/o real money spending" thing? Are you saying I don't have to spend my Prom ticket money on Sparkcash?? And that I can go to prom?! 8D

(Jokes, guise. Spending it on Faaaaanime. <3)

Chaola

03-23-2009, 01:32 AM

Before, we would have a boost week-end regulary....

Now, we have to pay for it : kill Helga (Helga pack), gift a GM...

What will be next ?

w0nderhealer

03-23-2009, 02:08 AM

The exp boost server wide should be done at least once each 2 weeks for FREE.
That wont change anything for outspark's business since that boost will stack with 50% or 20% exp boost cards.(it will even make people buy more exp boost cards)
Make the player's life a bit more easier Outspak.

tronkeee

03-23-2009, 04:09 AM

this is disapointing.. whatever happened to those "kill the boss" events or "find a gm" event? They did away with these events and we get such poor events in return. Effort? I dont see it =(

DemonEyeKyo

03-23-2009, 08:54 AM

me i think a good idea would be.. if u not gifting silky (like me) u should remove him from ur flist... that way it will help the odds with the %

Daevor

03-24-2009, 05:07 AM

wait wait wait....lemme see if I've got this right:

The GM event asks you and your fellow million+ users to gift around 440 profile gifts for Silky's birthday in order for both the Fiesta AND Solstice servers to receive an EXP boost.

The minimum profile gift available for this event is 250sc. Now, that adds up to about 110,000. For everyone to get an exp boost. Now if I recall, the Fiesta store has a 7 day 20% boost available for 2795 sc.

110,000/2795= enough exp cards for about 40 people. Instead, for the same amount the entire Isyan world...as well as the Solstice community can get a 25% increase.

Yes. That sounds really greedy to me.

I appreciate your mathematical diligence (though I could have done without the sarcasm), but the actual figures related to the event is unimportant. It's the principle of the nature of the event that counts. And what, may I ask, is that: "Spend more sparkcash".

Yes yes, you've done beautiful calculations showing how we all "save" on SC and still get an experience boost, but keep in mind that in order to "save", we have to... wait for it, wait for it.... SPEND!

Btw, are you aware that you can obtain SC by completing free offers now? You don't even have to spend your hard earned cash.

No, I am not. Please tell me more/direct me to a URL where I can learn more about this.

this is disapointing.. whatever happened to those "kill the boss" events or "find a gm" event? They did away with these events and we get such poor events in return. Effort? I dont see it =(

Agreed.

me i think a good idea would be.. if u not gifting silky (like me) u should remove him from ur flist... that way it will help the odds with the %

Or just remove him, period.

Nenova

03-24-2009, 05:33 AM

You can get free sparkcash by:

Providing personal information and confirming this information (like cellphone number) at a promotion website (that will cost you textmessage and you will receive more text messages later on). You can get 'free' SC if you purchase an item at a promotion website.

There are just a few ways to get real free and in my list that was only one and required me to fill in personal info and do at least one survey.

I'm sorry, but signing up for a ringtone-service that costs me like 75 cts per text message, or buying an item is not really FREE in my opinion.

You can find this https://payment.outspark.com/ there, at the left side you will see " Earn free SparkCash'. The possibilities there depend on your country. My max of 'free' SC is about 10k, an australian friend could go up to 100k. He had 4 pages of deals, I only have one, and he had some that offered over 20k SC (my highest was 5k).

Daevor

03-24-2009, 05:40 AM

I clicked on the "Earn free sparkcash" link and:

"Our systems are currently down for maintenance or you've reached an error page. Please try again by hitting your browser refresh or if this problem persists please email webmaster@myofferpal.com (emailto:webmaster@myofferpal.com). Sorry for the inconvenience.

MyOfferPal team."

*sigh*

Chaola

03-24-2009, 06:32 AM

I have 2 pages of way to get "free sparkcash".

Either give my personal informations, personal number pin, take a survey (and give personal informations).

Like Min said, it's only free for those naive enough to think it is.

But then again, it's only a personal choice, right ?

Disgusting, really.

Nenova

03-24-2009, 06:42 AM

I'd say it's more expensive than buying a bit of sparkcash actually. My personal information is quite precious to me.

Daevor

03-24-2009, 06:46 AM

Maybe we're just completely misunderstanding how it works? (Unlikely, but still a possibility).

Maybe Celtic can explain it to us?

mehe25

03-24-2009, 06:47 AM

*Steps over the line*

Now what?

DangerousSharida

03-24-2009, 08:51 AM

Maybe we're just completely misunderstanding how it works? (Unlikely, but still a possibility).

Maybe Celtic can explain it to us?

LOL deavor. I like you XD

Daevor

03-24-2009, 08:53 AM

LOL deavor. I like you XD

:o :o :o

DangerousSharida

03-24-2009, 09:33 AM

:o :o :o

omg misspelled the name o.o; Daevor XD sorry

Celtic_Princess

03-24-2009, 10:13 AM

me i think a good idea would be.. if u not gifting silky (like me) u should remove him from ur flist... that way it will help the odds with the %

Actually no it won't, considering its based off of the number of friends he had when the event started. Which you would have known if you'd read all the posts in the thread.

Maybe we're just completely misunderstanding how it works? (Unlikely, but still a possibility).

Maybe Celtic can explain it to us?

Speaking of sarcasm Daevor, I sense a little of your own starting to show.

Yes, surveys generally require personal information. Why? Because a lot of these surveys are marketing research. In an effort to get the most accurate marketing sample possible they have to ask such things. Why are marketing samples important? Because businesses use them to assess their marketing mix according to the target market that they are trying to reach. With a site like this, or facebook (which also employs the same offers) there is a vast difference in the age and background of the user. They need that information to be able to separate the target markets. If you are not comfortable with it, don't do it.

Yes, to many they are not willing to give this information. Whether or not you participate in any of the surveys (or the event for that matter...as your fellow community members including myself have gotten you the exp boost already) is completely your choice. However, the option does remain in many of those offers for you to obtain sparkcash without spending money.

Although on another hand some of these offers are things that people are already thinking of trying. For example, a lot of people use netflix. If you're thinking of switching to it instead of going to the movie store every few days....why not sign up through the site and receive additional sc for something you would have already done?

As for the event, no one is forcing you to do it. One user said that they saw the event as a way to thank all of their friends at once, since they couldn't afford to send a sc gift to every single one of them. Everyone has their reason for participating, if you don't want to, you don't have to.

Twenty-Nine_Rooks

03-24-2009, 10:53 AM

Yes, surveys generally require personal information. Why? Because a lot of these surveys are marketing research. In an effort to get the most accurate marketing sample possible they have to ask such things. Why are marketing samples important? Because businesses use them to assess their marketing mix according to the target market that they are trying to reach. With a site like this, or facebook (which also employs the same offers) there is a vast difference in the age and background of the user. They need that information to be able to separate the target markets. If you are not comfortable with it, don't do it.

Well, you are misunderstanding one thing. It is not that we are uncomfortable with these offers, it is that we find them morally repulsive. Personally, I feel insulted when someone asks me to give a bit of my privacy in return for a "Deal" or "Savings." Not to even mention the moral implications of things like marketing research and marketing in general.

OK, now to mention them: The understanding of Smithsonian economics in the modern day is feeble, at best. Most claim to possess little short of a worship for Adam Smith, but indeed have never actually read him. Smith was actually a moral philosopher, not an economist. He was what one might call a "proto-capitalist," existing before capitalism in general. Smith's main point was that the "Market" can act as a moral agent to reward companies that do well, and punish those that do not. But, the modern concept of Marketing is, by definition, a conscious manipulation of the market. Meaning that Smith would be horrified at the moral implications of conscious Marketing.

1 out of every 6 dollars in the US GDP is a marketing dollar. This is a staggering amount of money, and the fact that so much is dedicated to market manipulation makes Smithsonian economic models collapse. Really, marketing and market research are the next big "Bubbles" after the tech industry and housing. And ultimately, things like marketing have no sustainability economically, and no moral basis on which to operate.

dethsgirl

03-24-2009, 11:48 AM

I like the idea of Outspark gifting users on their Birthdays. This would promote more positive feelings towards the Outspark staff, even if it is a 'generic email' as Hoochi mentioned, or a profile gift. Generated by a server it takes little effort...but may do a lot. Many, many companies do things like this to make the customer feel more appreciated.

Daevor

03-24-2009, 01:31 PM

Well done, Rooks. I do believe you have said all that needs to be said on the subject.

And to think that Outspark is effectively encouraging 13+ year old kids to participate in a scheme that goads them to expose their personal particulars while dangling the carrot of "free" spark cash, is quite frankly shocking.

Celtic_Princess

03-24-2009, 03:37 PM

Well, you are misunderstanding one thing. It is not that we are uncomfortable with these offers, it is that we find them morally repulsive. Personally, I feel insulted when someone asks me to give a bit of my privacy in return for a "Deal" or "Savings." Not to even mention the moral implications of things like marketing research and marketing in general.

Then don't participate in them if you disagree with it. Write a ticket to Outspark explaining why you find it morally repulsive. However, it is still an option for those who choose to participate in them.

Do I personally? No. Have others? Quite possibly. Its an individual choice, but the option is there for those who wish to take it.

OK, now to mention them: The understanding of Smithsonian economics in the modern day is feeble, at best. Most claim to possess little short of a worship for Adam Smith, but indeed have never actually read him. Smith was actually a moral philosopher, not an economist. He was what one might call a "proto-capitalist," existing before capitalism in general. Smith's main point was that the "Market" can act as a moral agent to reward companies that do well, and punish those that do not. But, the modern concept of Marketing is, by definition, a conscious manipulation of the market. Meaning that Smith would be horrified at the moral implications of conscious Marketing.

Adam Smith's description of Capitalism as 'laissez-fair' is speaking in terms of pure capitalism. Pure Capiltalism is a free-market system with no government intereference. This does not exist in the United States. Most economies are not a single marketing system. The United States actually uses Modified Capitalism, where the government intervenes and regulates business to an extent (for example by laws like the Sherman Anti-trust act...which prevents businesses from forming a monopoly. Or the Federal Trade Commission that puts a lot of emphasis on protecting the consumer.)

Marketing is defined as "the performance of activities that seek to accomplish an organizations objectives by anticipating customer or client needs and directing a flow of need satisfying goods and services from producer to consumer". However this is marketing on a small scale, macro-marketing is a social process that seeks to accomplish the objectives of society in place of the objectives of a business.

1 out of every 6 dollars in the US GDP is a marketing dollar. This is a staggering amount of money, and the fact that so much is dedicated to market manipulation makes Smithsonian economic models collapse. Really, marketing and market research are the next big "Bubbles" after the tech industry and housing. And ultimately, things like marketing have no sustainability economically, and no moral basis on which to operate.

I think you misunderstand modern day marketing. They are not trying to manipulate the buyer into choosing their product. The idea of an appropriate marketing mix is to select a target market that has a need, to create a product that meets that need and to advertise and anticipate any changes in that need. Marketing research is used to aid in this process and is not uncommon in any business. Some businesses offer rewards for taking the time to participate in their marketing research, if you find this morally repulsive, just don't fill it out.

Marketing involves much, much more than advertising and pushing a product. It includes actions taken to overcome 'discrepancies and separations' between a producer and a consumer. Marketing on an economic basis is actually incrediby important. Societies that do not engage in marketing (pure subsistence economies) often have a low or poor standard of living. And as for marketing having no 'moral' basis...a huge part of successful marketing is social responsibility and the ability to make ethicial decisions even if it may cut profit in the short run.

..*looks up*..whoa, that was longer than I thought. Guess I did learn something this semester.

vivirishere

03-24-2009, 04:07 PM

Smarty pants :x

FaytLeonheartOmega

03-24-2009, 04:31 PM

kat owns <3!~ ;P

Twenty-Nine_Rooks

03-24-2009, 04:43 PM

Hmm... Well I'll go over this a bit more slowly then.

First off I do write letters, I'm actually quite good at it lol. Though I get the feeling only my students listen to me in the end. lol

The Smith model for economics is this:
I go to store "A" to purchase a new coat, but their coats are over-priced, even though they are good quality. So, I go to store "B," their coats are the right price, but have poor quality. So, I decide to wait to buy a new coat until I come across store "C," which has the right quality at a good price.

That, in the most basic sense, is the Smith model.

Now, as soon as you remove the option to wait until you find store "C," the model collapses.

The point of modern marketing is either remove the option of waiting, and make the consumer think they need a product now. Or, to convince the consumer that the quality of the product is good, regardless of price or the reality of the actual product.

Smith believed, as utilitarians do, that everything must have a moral purpose. And what constitutes a moral purpose is what benefits the largest amount of people. When Smith talked about Government intervention and "Laissez-fair," he spoke of a different type of involvement.

EX: The Hudson Bay company lobbied the British government to impose a tax on tea as it was imported. But, before the tax was implemented Hudson Bay Filled its warehouses with tea, so they could sell that tea Tax-free while their competitors had to sell it at a higher price due to the taxes. The tax was implemented and Hudson Bay company ran their competition out of the market. This eventually led to the riot we know today as the Boston tea party. "No taxation without representation."

There are 2 things wrong with this example. 1, tea was a staple at the time. It was used to make otherwise ill water drinkable, and people felt they had a right to it. 2, The government was unduly influenced by Hudson Bay Co. and killed the market.

If there is no competition in the market, then there is no market. The anti-trust and monopoly acts were made according to the Smith model, not in opposition to it. Because as soon as the market is fully manipulated it is no longer what Smith thought of as "Capitalism."

You probably learned about Smith and laissez-fair in a modern context. Milton Friedman is mostly responsible for the current distortions of Smith that are taught in most schools nowadays. As I said, many worship Smith, and no one has read him lol.

Daevor

03-24-2009, 04:44 PM

I think you misunderstand modern day marketing. They are not trying to manipulate the buyer into choosing their product.

The idea of an appropriate marketing mix is to select a target market that has a need, to create a product that meets that need and to advertise and anticipate any changes in that need. Marketing research is used to aid in this process and is not uncommon in any business.

Actually, trying to manipulate the buyer is exactly what most of modern day marketing ends up being in practice.
What does a baby sitting in the centre of a premier tyre have to do with tyre sales? It is no more than emotional marketing, playing on the emotions of parents, leading them to believe that they need to spend double or triple what they currently do on (non-name branded) tyres, all for the safety of their beloved children.
And what of the plathora of marketing to kids, even toddlers! The kid insists on a certain brand for his/her school bag because it was advertised with a happy, catchy tune, interesting "cool" graphics, and, most of all, it was owned/shown off by the most popular girl/boy in the school (in the advertisement), even if it is actually more expensive and of a lower quality than other brands. How is this identifying a need? It is not; it is merely playing on the insecurities of kids, and their desire for acceptance and recognition, which they hope to gain by owning and being seen with this particular brand of school bag/satchel.

Celtic, you seem like a reasonable intelligent person. I thus find hard to believe you do not know, or completely ignore, the huge amount of emotional marketing that takes place, where the aim is either to: i) manipulate a potential customer into falsely believing s/he has need of a product; or ii) manipulate a potential customer into believing that some physical product will satisfy an emotionally based need which is actually largely unrelated to the physical product.

Some businesses offer rewards for taking the time to participate in their marketing research, if you find this morally repulsive, just don't fill it out.

Yeah, we could also say: if you don't like drugs, just don't use them (referring to the illegal kind, not the medical kind). But here, the bottom line is 13+ year old kids should not be exposed to situations where they are asked to give out their personal particulars.

Urgh, that's all I'm going to say on that. It's nearly 2AM here, so sorry if my post is somewhat incoherent.

Celtic_Princess

03-24-2009, 05:13 PM

Actually, Adam Smith has been reduced to about 5 minutes of learning in both Intro to Business and Intro to Marketing. I'm sure at some point I'll study his theories in much greater detail, but at the moment I haven't had the chance.

To a degree the A, B, and C model still exists. You always have the choice in our economy to go to a different store. Businesses succeed or fail based on their ability to meed the needs of their customers. Also, when you say that the moral purpose is what benefits the society the most....thats what I refer to when I say social responsibility. I'm not saying all businesses follow this, Enron certianly didn't, but the idea and practice is still out there.

To Daevor- Maslow's pyramid of needs explains this a bit better. When the Physiological needs are met (food, water, sleep) other desires become more important. People are generally emotional buyers, we buy something because we expect it to satisfy us in some way. Food satisfies hunger, a new TV may satisfy the want of entertainment, and a cool backpack with a certain design may fulfill the social need to stand out.

The example of a young child sitting in a tire may appeal to an emotional need to protect, but its also supposed to display that the tire is dependable and safe. Which are aspects that people look for in a product like that. Not all marketing mixes work, not all marketing managers have really exited the sales era and entered into the marketing era. This is where businesses succeed and fail.

However, while you may think it is morally repulsive for these options to exist there are those that don't. And the option is there for those users. I certainly would not encourage a minor to go through any of those offers without their parent going through it with them. Anything that asks for personal information should be filled out by an adult, or with the permission and supervision of an adult.

Also, I think we have sufficiently de-railed this thread. So, should either of you like to respond please feel free to do so via PM. I'm enjoying seeing your points of view and debating my own so I welcome any responses you wish to make.

Lets let the thread get back on its actual topic then ^^

Ciocolajs

03-24-2009, 05:34 PM

Omg wth XD.

Twenty-Nine_Rooks

03-24-2009, 07:04 PM

Omg wth XD.

lol I never lose an argument. What can I say? I'm a traumatized child....

I think I'm going to add the phrase "Annoying CL_Celtic_Princess since '09" to my siggy.

dethsgirl

03-24-2009, 07:10 PM

I’ve been slowly reading through the last posts by Rooks, Celtic Princess, and Daevor. I can see you all stand by your beliefs strongly, and also feel, as a business woman, I should offer my own two cents, and I also feel a need to post it here, looking forward to its dissection.

As per Rooks speaking on the Smith model, I agree with him. It’s been my observation that store “A” and store “B” are everywhere. Store “C” is disappearing. And indeed, the disappearance of store “C” brings the model to it’s proverbial knees. Smith’s model is no longer entirely applicable in so called Capitalist markets in my opinion.

Rooks, what you say about the point of modern marketing to remove the option of waiting, or to make a consumer think they need a product now, is accurate. I don’t believe that if you sit back and examine today’s economy, marketing campaigns, and the kinds of goods people are purchasing, that you can deny most purchases outside of basic necessities are of a frivolous nature, meant to entertain.

If you look back through time, as inventions have come up to help save time with household tasks, and tasks on the workplace, people have more time on their hands. What to do with the time? Find ways to be entertained. Most methods of entertainment through the years have been increasingly saturated with advertisements for more forms of entertainment.

In more recent years, the push has not been so much ‘entertain me because I have too much time’ as, ‘entertain me now’, an intrinsic impatience has been bred into society’s younger people. Now, we can see examples of this in Fiesta™ itself, within players’ anticipation of levelling, of cap raise, with how they want to have the new SC item first, et cetera. Outspark™ itself is playing on this with items such as the EXP Boost Cards and so forth, and it’s very clever of them to do so.

Marketing will always be trying to manipulate the buyer. You need to play on their desires in order to win their dollars, especially in the economic status most of the globe is in currently. You’re going to have to win that dollar by making that consumer -want- that item, and that is manipulation. I know it seems like a bad word, but that’s exactly what it is, and it’s business. I applaud Outspark™ on it’s marketing tactics. From a business point of view, they’re aggressive and creative, they’re being what a business needs to be, especially for a market such as this.

My own business for example also deals with the gaming industry, believe me I know how much effort it takes to earn that dollar. Ninety percent of it is marketing and ten percent is product. And I also can confirm (like there was ever any doubt) that in the recessions many nations are experiencing, things in this market are taking a very, very hard hit. Making special offers to your customers to relieve the pain in their pocketbook will appeal to many of them and help keep them as your customers.

As a sideline, this is why I mentioned the recognition of birthdays earlier, in a much briefer post when I had much less time to articulate my thoughts. It’s my belief that interaction with the customer will help preserve business. I think I’m stating the obvious here, however.

As per his comments on there being no market, a monopoly, you have only to look at very small towns to see what he is describing in effect. Let me use this example. In a town of one thousand, there is one grocery store, one gas station, one hardware store, etc. Because of the rural nature of these businesses, it is slightly more expensive for them to provide goods to the local consumer due to delivery fees and so forth, however they use this as a reason to raise their prices exceedingly. Now, the people in the small town could go to a near by city, to purchase similar goods at a lower price, however the travel costs for gasoline, and the consumption of their time, makes it more worthwhile to shop locally, because of the saving of time and travel expenses, and that we are in a ‘I want it now‘ society. The problem is, if you only have one grocery store, and it’s got no next-door competition for sales, they’ll continue to hike their prices and pinch every dollar they can from the consumer, taking advantage of their impatience and their unwillingness to go outside of town. This happens in my own town, actually.

Celtic Princess, what you say here: “And as for marketing having no 'moral' basis...a huge part of successful marketing is social responsibility and the ability to make ethicial decisions even if it may cut profit in the short run.
“ Maybe I’m cynical, but I fail to see many influential companies abiding by this. To my mind, a ‘socially responsible’ company would keep their employees instead of laying them off in excessive numbers. It’s not difficult to see layoffs. What do we have? Prices going up, pay checks are either decreasing, disappearing, or at minimum not keeping up with inflation. The layoffs are an attempt to keep profit margins as high as possible, with the hopes of riding out the recession. But will it work? To date, every recession has been met with a revival of the economy, with it either as strong, or stronger than it was before the recession. Will that happen this time? Only time will tell, but personally I think this one will take a long time.

Anyway, the idea of these offers is great for those who are partial to those sorts of things, but I for one won’t be participating, I don’t feel my personal information being in danger of being compromised is worth the amounts of Spark Cash offered. I applaud the effort to help save people some money, but on something like this, it’s really a debatable issue and there will never be a time where all see one side of it.

As per the original topic, it’s benefiting everyone, so if those who spare SC who don’t mind giving Silky a gift do so, and it happens to earn everyone an EXP boost, what’s really the problem? It’s not mandatory to gift him, and it’s been said before, no one’s twisting your arm. So if you don’t approve, don’t participate, simple as that. And also, if you don’t approve, maybe you shouldn’t log on and enjoy the extra exp boost while it‘s in effect, either.

I’m cutting this short and leaving many thoughts out so as not to write a small novel. Again, simply my two cents.

Celtic_Princess

03-24-2009, 11:45 PM

lol I never lose an argument. What can I say? I'm a traumatized child....

I think I'm going to add the phrase "Annoying CL_Celtic_Princess since '09" to my siggy.

Lol, I dont believe I said anywhere that I was giving up my point. Just that if you wished to continue it, take it to my PM box so the thread doesnt get closed as a result of our de-railing it.

I see a lot of ups and downs on the forums, of all the people that could possibly 'annoy' me you are not one of them. There is a difference in my mind between intelligent debate and simple 'nuh-uh its my way or its wrong'. Those that can have an intelligent debate are actually raised in terms of respect in my eyes.

Btw. There's no _ between CL and Celtic ;)

Chaola

03-25-2009, 02:10 AM

I don't think this should go to PM. I don't know what your orders are about this, but I see no derailing here. Nor flaming. The OP posted about crossing the line, and if players feel the needs to explain this crossing the line by explaining about marketing process, then I don't see any problem. We won't be hushed, and I seriously hope that the kids will read this thread and think about it twice before taken part in this farce of free SC.

As Rooks said, it IS morally wrong.

To that you answered that you, of course, wish that minors will have their parents approval before giving away any personal informations.

But do you really think that this is what will ever happen ?

Those kids who are playing, got SC for birthday, Christmas, or no SC at all.

For OS to put in their hand a tool like that will have some of them to give away the PIN code of all their family, trying to get as much SC as they can for, like Dev pointed out, be like everyone else.

Not every kid is mature enough to realise that this is wrong, and a trap.

And when his family will start to be contacted, either by mail, post-mail, phone call by those websites, what do you think will happen ?

They will learn sooner or later what really happened, and will interdict their kids to play Fiesta.

Now, the player base of OS has a huge amounts of that potential preys.

Is OS really willing to lose its milk-cow ?

Like we say in France : Comme on fait son lit, on se couche.

Meaning : Like we do our bed, we lie in it.

PS : the correct wording of "Laissez-fair" is "Laissez-fairE"

PS2 : and to dethsgirl , we know that we don't have to participate in the Gifting Sliky Event. But when you know that 6 months ago, we had at least one exp boost week-end by month, without asking or giving any thing in any way, you ask yourself what has changed.

I remember planning my leveling with those week-ends, I remember my IG wife saying "Just wait, an exp boost is coming soon !"

Where are they now ?

dethsgirl

03-25-2009, 09:08 AM

PS2 : and to dethsgirl , we know that we don't have to participate in the Gifting Sliky Event. But when you know that 6 months ago, we had at least one exp boost week-end by month, without asking or giving any thing in any way, you ask yourself what has changed.

Where are they now ?

Hmm, you've got a point. Those EXP boosts of the past did indeed slip my mind. No doubt countless others have forgotten as well. Still, you must admit it's a clever way to get attention to the profile gifting, and also to cause a few more people to pay more attention to the OS Profile pages.

Chaola

03-26-2009, 02:16 AM

Celtic_Princess

03-26-2009, 08:24 AM

Yeah, the commercial move is awesome, but that doesn't make it right.

And I see we get the silent traitement from OS staff, CLs must have orders to not answer anymore and let this topic die and be forgotten...

No, actually I don't have any such orders, and its rather presumptious of you to assume so. I do not have to take part in this thread, and I do not have to respond to you. I left the thread open to hear player concerns, and to put both sides into perspective. Thats the only way for me to hear both sides and both arguments on the topic so that I can act as a go between for you and the company. Me chosing to participate in a thread means that staff will hear your concerns even if they didn't take part in the thread.

The original topic was whether or not Outspark has crossed the line in making an event in which people gift a miniscule SC item as a way to get an exp boost for everyone.

One side says its terrible and greedy.

The other side says its not actually that much and a great way to thank all of their friends at once.

The topic of the Offerpal page is not the original topic, and therefore going in to marketing to explain how it is morally disgusting to some people is derailing the thread in my mind. Therefore, I request that all of the responses they wish to make about Smith v. modern day marketing (which is even off topic from the offerpal) be sent to my PM box.

If I wished to stop the subject Chaola, I would have closed it. You, as a player have the benefit of being able to speak your mind without having to hold your tongue. I do not. There are a lot of things in this community that I see that crosses the line and frankly, its coming from the players just as much as its coming from Outspark. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get ready to go to work. If you'd like to hear what I have to say about people crossing the line feel free to PM me.

Chaola

03-26-2009, 09:30 AM

By your answer, you derailed this thread, and my answer is derailed it further.

Nice trap ._.

Just close this thread, it's not as if what we say is being heard and will change anything on this particular subject.

Freedom of speech is useless when those concerned by the speech are deaf.

vandaluske

03-26-2009, 09:44 AM

Why do we have to be tested for an Xp event anyways?:rolleyes:
Can we not Get one just for the heck of it like Most other F2p Games.....
I mean i would actually Gift this Gm if he has ever Done anything for me. Not to be rude or anything.. He doesnt even answer my simple Questions and most ppl to... Dont tell me what he does behind the screen cuz he gets paid for it... If it was Gm Rayse or somone else Mb. But i dont Gift ppl who are not Friends.....

feebz2

03-26-2009, 09:50 AM

I’m cutting this short and leaving many thoughts out so as not to write a small novel. Again, simply my two cents.

Haha, that was too short :P jk

Anyways, unlike daevor, rooks, and Celtic, I didn't pay attention in class during the whole "Adam Smith" section and honestly I still don't pay attention in class lol (Come on first period im super tired ^^). However, I do understand the whole capitalism marketing system and I'm going to have to agree with Rooks here. There are indeed other surveys for stores that give you coupons/discounts in order for them to gather some marketing information, however they always give you the option of "prefer not answer". I believe the main point here is that the younger aged players that don't really think, but just do should not be given the option to give out personal information for promotional reasons. It's a form of bribing people for their personal lives.

Haha just in case I sound stupid at some parts, I'm sorry but I just woke up and don't feel lie re-doing this ;)

Bonthra

03-26-2009, 12:18 PM

[Silky] doesnt even answer my simple Questions and most ppl to... Dont tell me what he does behind the screen cuz he gets paid for it...

Not to choose sides or anything, but Silky has a lot to do, as do most of the GMs/CSRs. Answering questions isn't the most pertinent thing he has to do. Also, depending on what your question is,
a) there's a way to find your answer elsewhere,
b) he's answered the question 30 trillion times and is tired of answering things he may or may not have answered in World Announce,
c) he's afk when you send him a whisper if you try to ask him in game,
d) he didn't see your whisper/shout/general chat in the spam any GM receives when s/he logs in, or
d) he can't say.

shihouinkyouhei

03-27-2009, 10:38 PM

What... In... The... Seven... Frigging... Hells... Is... Going... On... ?!

akariii

03-28-2009, 03:26 AM

what... In... The... Seven... Frigging... Hells... Is... Going... On... ?!

w h a t o m g D:<

kouseketra

03-28-2009, 08:54 AM

lol, I think for most people this thread in it's entirety is a tl;dr

Bonthra

03-28-2009, 08:58 AM

Yes. Yes it is.

istorage

03-28-2009, 09:35 AM

What... In... The... Seven... Frigging... Hells... Is... Going... On... ?!

The new plan involves buying up assets from banks. Say there's an asset that was originally worth $100. The debt on that is now, say $70, while the equity is only $30. The market is weighing in saying that the asset is worth only $20. If the banks sell at this level they are bankrupt. So now instead the Federal Reserve, backed by the taxpayer, will end up buying up all of these assets at the price of $70 so that the banks don't implode. This will be done with a very small amount, say $5, provided by the 'private investor'. A matching $5 will be brought in by the Treasury. These two form the equity. The rest is taken on by the Federal Reserve.

If for whatever reason the assets can be sold at $100, the Fed is paid back $60. The $40 left over is split between the 'private investor' and the Treasury. On the surface a great deal. Except the assets are marked at only $20 for a reason. Toxic assets being toxic and all.

BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE.

There is no way to regulate who exactly buys these securities from the banks. Even the bank could buy the securities from themselves. Sure they don't have any money, but they're banks so we should fill their borrowing needs. Flawless logic. The banks borrow the $5 they need in order to qualify. This money can be sent to a separate entity if they so choose in order to maintain the image of a 'private investor'. Now their exposure is exponentially less at 5 cents on the dollar. The rest of the losses are covered by either the Fed and the Treasury.

Now just scale that up from $100 to something in the trillions.

And there is nothing at all stopping two bidders from inflating the price of these. The money spent is mostly the Fed's after all. What's a few SPVs here and there.

BUT WAIT THERE'S STILL MORE.

Even if it works, it means absolutely nothing since the magical cash machine created by fees, large margins, and profits drawn from releveraging is broken beyond repair and won't be contributing any further to the accumulation fake wealth. But knowing how bank spreads and all that other junk work obviously doesn't matter because ZIRP and spending more in the face of increasing defaults is the answer to all of life's questions.

And that is what is going on.

Oh wait...

I just didn't want to have 13 posts. D:<

dethsgirl

03-28-2009, 12:49 PM

istorage...I think I know who you are neener neener D:<

And btw I lol @ you.

Celtic_Princess

03-28-2009, 12:55 PM

Hey guys, can we keep it on topic please? If it continues to get spamified I'll have to close it.

MaximusPrimus

03-29-2009, 10:48 AM

This Is Just Like Publicity.......This Event Is Making People Spend SparkCash For Nothing Lol..This Garauntees OutSpark That There will Be SparkCash Spent ^^.
Money Makes The World Go Round!