PvP Class Representation Balance

[justindz]

I played about 10 Death Matches this morning and noticed that not a single game was less than 7/12 mages. Not long-ranged, just mages. There were generally archers and priests on top of that. Now, that's not inherently imbalanced because some of the games were like 14-1 blowouts when the mages were incompetent. However, I think this might indicate some kind of imbalance. Rarely is a game so incredibly stacked in favor of one class.

To some extent, it might be that mages have the most interesting abilities. I think it might have something to do with the fact that they get WSP very easily. The resulting feedback makes people think they are more awesome than they would be with any more difficult class, and it swells the ranks.

Does this concern anyone else? I mean, I don't think we should tell people who to play, but Death Matches have gotten much more boring as of late. We need more rogues, monks and warriors in there instead of a grand total of two per game. Anyone looking in to this?

[deoxys114]

I've seen people take on 3 or 4 mages and win. Mages aren't the "all powerful" class that people think they are. They say we hit high because of our fire, and just from that makes us overpowered. Yet...A rogues stun cooldown plus it's poison cooldown is still less than a Mage's fire cooldown. We aren't that godly class. Our casting speed is a slow as hell, and our grab skill sucks because anyone can pretty much block it. There is no imbalance that exists.

For most interesting skills, I don't think mages have them. Look at Rogues. They have inviso, puppet, poison, that attack that they dash threw anything. That is pretty pwnsome. Mages aren't the most interesting class.

As for getting WSP easily, that is also not true. We get just as fast as others. Yes there are Mages with high ranks, but if you look, we got Galad as a lvl 2 Pro, Prolific as a whatever lvl Pro, and tons of others catching up. So, Mages get just as fast as others.

And as for the Death Matches, yes there has been more Mages, but lately I've seen tons of Archers, Warriors, and most of all, priests.

As the famous quote goes: Mages are glass cannons.

[justindz]

I've seen people take on 3 or 4 mages and win. Mages aren't the "all powerful" class that people think they are. They say we hit high because of our fire, and just from that makes us overpowered. Yet...A rogues stun cooldown plus it's poison cooldown is still less than a Mage's fire cooldown. We aren't that godly class. Our casting speed is a slow as hell, and our grab skill sucks because anyone can pretty much block it. There is no imbalance that exists.

For most interesting skills, I don't think mages have them. Look at Rogues. They have inviso, puppet, poison, that attack that they dash threw anything. That is pretty pwnsome. Mages aren't the most interesting class.

As for getting WSP easily, that is also not true. We get just as fast as others. Yes there are Mages with high ranks, but if you look, we got Galad as a lvl 2 Pro, Prolific as a whatever lvl Pro, and tons of others catching up. So, Mages get just as fast as others.

And as for the Death Matches, yes there has been more Mages, but lately I've seen tons of Archers, Warriors, and most of all, priests.

As the famous quote goes: Mages are glass cannons.

My point was not to say they are better, but to say that there is an imbalance in the number of people playing various classes. I have played a large number of MMOs both in beta and commercial and am concerned that in all cases a significant % player imbalance by class indicates a problem with the game that ultimately harms the player base. If more than half the people PvP'ing are playing mages, this will turn off non-mage players over time and is not good for the game.

Regarding your other points, ice + fire is still unavoidable and does over 500 points of damage. Therefore the damage and kill rates for mages are very high even if they infrequently hit enemies. Rogues have to work a lot harder for kills. Since WSP is based mostly on damage dealt and people killed, they do get very good numbers much more easily than other classes. They have to land 1/2 as many hits to rank up at the same rate even if you assumed they didn't combo. There are high rank players of other types, but the average mage with more than a little talent can rank up much faster. This doesn't harm anyone else directly in any way, but I think it moves people towards casting classes and contributes to the imbalance I'm concerned about. A better mix, statistically, is more challenging and more fun and those are the qualities that will help the game grow. Cookie cutter, predictable PvP hurts games that aren't even PvP-focused.

[blake3470]

Ok....no offense to the handful of skilled mages out there...but I believe that many people choose mage because its a "nice and easy" class to use. I actually saw some lvl 13 noob mage ALWAYS hiding behind someone. Whether it was another mage, or an invisible rogue. >.> If someone caught him away from someone to hide behind, they he would run away again....It takes NO skill to do that, so that would be a good reason for some noob player to use the class. And yes, there are too many spammer mages in death match trying to get some extra wsp...Sometimes as many as almost the whole team is made out of spamming mages. :/

[deoxys114]

My point was not to say they are better, but to say that there is an imbalance in the number of people playing various classes.
Oh I see. My bad.

Regarding your other points, ice + fire is still unavoidable and does over 500 points of damage. Therefore the damage and kill rates for mages are very high even if they infrequently hit enemies.
The Ice+Fire combo is in fact avoidable. I have seen plenty of high ranked mages mess up the combo, and I do also. Also, it is possible to block the Ice and then quickly retaliate. If you notice a Shaolin now has that 3 hit, then 5 hit, then 3 hit, then Blaze Kick combo. That deals over if not 500 damage. Shaolins move quite fast, and can turn on the dime. They have quick aerial moves, great successful grab rate, and quick casting speed. But yet...we don't see anyone going for Shaolins do we?

I understand that Mages hit high, but in all reality, our Mage Fire is the only "high" damaging attack. All the others deal 100-200 damage.

[imjesse]

There are almost as many rouges and archers and priests in PvP, and they all spam as well except rouges, and most rouges just use hide, then stun poison combo, run away then repeat.

PvP will never be deserted or ruined because of a single class, and I see far more monks then mages anyway.

In the end if a mage sucks (I encounted several mages who tryed just spamming skills on me, and all I had to do was jump over and cast, it's that simple) it makes no difference how many there are, because if you suck and have no hope, you will switch to a different class, and realize skill>class.

[justindz]

Oh I see. My bad.


The Ice+Fire combo is in fact avoidable. I have seen plenty of high ranked mages mess up the combo, and I do also. Also, it is possible to block the Ice and then quickly retaliate. If you notice a Shaolin now has that 3 hit, then 5 hit, then 3 hit, then Blaze Kick combo. That deals over if not 500 damage. Shaolins move quite fast, and can turn on the dime. They have quick aerial moves, great successful grab rate, and quick casting speed. But yet...we don't see anyone going for Shaolins do we?

I understand that Mages hit high, but in all reality, our Mage Fire is the only "high" damaging attack. All the others deal 100-200 damage.

When I say unavoidable, I mean that it's not up to the skill of the player to avoid it. If you face a good mage, they only have to hit you with ice in order to get at least fire and possible a rock wall on you as well. Basically, if you face any high ranking mage, as soon as an ice shot touches you, you know that you lose at least half your health. Pretty much no other class gets to do that. If you are getting ganged, you're generally all but dead only because you couldn't avoid one initial attack.

But, again, that's something that you can work around. It wouldn't be nearly as annoying to people if there were less than 50-60% mages in every match :-P

Agreed that the Shaolin invincibility punch fest is a problem right now. As far as I know, it's the only attack that cannot be interrupted or cut off. I agree on that point. In Death Match, spamming that will dish out damage and keep you alive in a 3 or 4 on 1 situation with less skill than should be required.

[justindz]

Agreed that the Shaolin invincibility punch fest is a problem right now. As far as I know, it's the only attack that cannot be interrupted or cut off.

I'm fairly sure, in point of fact, that it actually turns off collision detection while it's in progress.