Bows vs Xbows at 90+

[Eliasj]

Ive been thinking, and, well, with the release of helgaits next cap raise, how will bows do vs xbows? I already know that with ntohing but normal attack xbows will win, but then I thought of something, which is:

Nature's Speed. Thats right, speed might just give the bows an edge. Let me show you what I mean:

Lets say an xbow does 150 and a bow 100 damage (please note, this is with normal weps, not counting helgaits which have lower attack rate)

Now, over 15 secs without speed:
A bow will do: 1363.5 damage
an xbow will do 1607 damage

But now, speed at 96 (Last tier we will get) will decrease attack rate by 0.5 secs. And if you sue a korin set thats an extra -.1, so -0.6
This lowers the bows attack rate to 0.5secs and the xbows to 0.8
Over 15 secs
a bow will do 3000 damage
an xbow will do 2812.5 damage

See how the tables are turning. PLease note this is wothout considering the fact that helgaits have lower attack rate. So lets do this test again with the 1.0 and 1.3 sec attack rates of the helgaits. I will be pretending that the bow still does 100 and the xbow still does 150 damage just for the sake of not getting to complicated.
If we use speed a bows attack rate will be 0.4 attack rate and the xbow will have 0.7
a bow will do 3750
an xbow will do 3214
wow, at this point a bow does 17% more damage with normal attack

Now, I understand that I am not counting skills, but how much difference will skills really make? The only 3 skills we have that deal high damage are aimed, power and pierce (which isnt even that much) and with the helgas huge base damage, will skills even be worth using due to the fact that on a bow normal attack will be faster and possibly more efficient then using skills?

Anyway, My opinion is that bows could actually be the superior weapon at 91 with the entrance of the helgaits. What do you guys think?

[Eliasj]

I should mention, I am talking about single target combat/pvp, I know xbows wll still trive at aoeing.

[darthnish]

well condsering the fact that a hellgait bow has twice the base dmg of a +9ed bk i dont think it'd be that bad at pve , and you may shown that they have a edge at pvp too, so bows might be the choice of weapon at 91+

[nasgax]

Your math is missing an important value, CRIT. With 20-40% on both, xbow will win even with the speed. *is too lazy to do the math*

[darthnish]

well the crit diff is 2% >.> not really that big a factor

[defcom]

ooo this is a tough one to crack indeed.

Imo, if the Hellgait does such a massive damage, that it only takes 1-3 shots (of a bow or a xbow) to take out any player in PvP, I might just use a bow:

If it only takes 1-3 shots regardless of what weapon I pick, I'd rather get those 1-3 shot in as fast as i can, rather than going xbow for the extra base damage that isn't needed to take out that one PvP target.

Its like saying an opponent has 1500 hp and your bow does 500 damage each time. That'll take 3 successful shots exactly. Using an xbow that does like 700 damage each time, you'll still need to hit your opponent 3 times to take em out. (now this is disregarding crits and skills that add damage and etc)

I know for sure that it'll also vary depending if a person has +9 armor, buffs, scrolls, extenders, charms, and people can stone/heal/pot...so disregarding the whole slew of variables....and taking this in its simplest form, I'm probably going to go use the Hellgait Bow if I ever get my hands on it for PvP/war purposes.

Now PvE is a different story. I'd rather use a Hellgait Xbow to kite mobs than the bow. Why...cuz I mostly spam mist/pierce shot aoes on the run so I'm more worried about using those 2 skills as the main force of gaining exp than to worry about speed in getting attacks in with auto attack and skills.

[Eliasj]

Your math is missing an important value, CRIT. With 20-40% on both, xbow will win even with the speed. *is too lazy to do the math*

wow, a 2% difference in crit rate!!!! OMG THE BOWS ARE USELESS! QUICK LETS ALL DIG A HOLE IN THE GROUND AND THROW THE BOWS IN SINCE XBOWS HAVE 2% HIGHER CRIT! And lest also not mention that your avarage Helgait user will be stacked with crit suits which makes that 2% difference even more insignificant.

[Rzpect]

Lets just go and buy/hunt for a Hellgait Bow/Xbow and +9 them, put it in inventory...bow use for pvp, xbow for grinding...problem solved. Just get two. Until you get to lvl 120 when you have to decide which one to choose....then we can start freaking out or debating more.

[Eliasj]

Lets just go and buy/hunt for a Hellgait Bow/Xbow and +9 them, put it in inventory...bow use for pvp, xbow for grinding...problem solved. Just get two. Until you get to lvl 120 when you have to decide which one to choose....then we can start freaking out or debating more.

Sadly, som of us can only afford 1, so his is to give advice to those people on what to get.

[nasgax]

well the crit diff is 2% >.> not really that big a factor


wow, a 2% difference in crit rate!!!! OMG THE BOWS ARE USELESS! QUICK LETS ALL DIG A HOLE IN THE GROUND AND THROW THE BOWS IN SINCE XBOWS HAVE 2% HIGHER CRIT! And lest also not mention that your avarage Helgait user will be stacked with crit suits which makes that 2% difference even more insignificant.

Lol, you guys misunderstood me. I'm talking about the value of the TOTAL CRIT from all your gear, not just the weapons.

a crit will double 1000 dmg to 2000 with bow,
a crit will double 1500 dmg to 3000 with xbow.

lets say you crit 5 times in a row.

with bow: 1000 * 5 = only 5000 dmg
with xbow: 1500 * 5 = 7500 dmg (that is almost 3 more normal hits from a bow)

with a less base dmg, sure, bow would be better, but at higher level with all your crit gears, (boots, cs suit, errings, license, etc) and with the base dmg of the weapons being alot higher, I'd choose xbow rather then bow. For PvE, after cap raise, you will have 3 aoe skills to spam, there won't be any time in between to get normal shots to them not to mention aoe kiting in PvE.

For PvP, you are still going to kite, not to mention in wars, you will be spamming your aoe's to affect alot of players at once making it more helpful for your guild as a whole. This will also drive the enemy clerics CRAZY MAD. LOL.

For PvP 1 on 1, MAYBE bow then, I don't know, I wanna see the math for with 30-40% crit being involved for the bow and xbow before I say which is better for 1v1.

[darthnish]

i want bow for looks and pvp D:< i bet it'll do decent in pve, its better than my +bk xbow >.>

[Eliasj]

Lol, you guys misunderstood me. I'm talking about the value of the TOTAL CRIT from all your gear, not just the weapons.

a crit will double 1000 dmg to 2000 with bow,
a crit will double 1500 dmg to 3000 with xbow.

lets say you crit 5 times in a row.

with bow: 1000 * 5 = only 5000 dmg
with xbow: 1500 * 5 = 7500 dmg (that is almost 3 more normal hits from a bow)

with a less base dmg, sure, bow would be better, but at higher level with all your crit gears, (boots, cs suit, errings, license, etc) and with the base dmg of the weapons being alot higher, I'd choose xbow rather then bow. For PvE, after cap raise, you will have 3 aoe skills to spam, there won't be any time in between to get normal shots to them not to mention aoe kiting in PvE.

For PvP, you are still going to kite, not to mention in wars, you will be spamming your aoe's to affect alot of players at once making it more helpful for your guild as a whole. This will also drive the enemy clerics CRAZY MAD. LOL.

For PvP 1 on 1, MAYBE bow then, I don't know, I wanna see the math for with 30-40% crit being involved for the bow and xbow before I say which is better for 1v1.

Yes, and lest say you crit 5 times fopr a bow and 5 times for an xbow. Do you realize the 5 crits youll get on a bow will be over a span of 2 sec while with the xbow they will be over a span of 3.5 secs? so due to the fact the bow would get 2 more hits in in the same time of the xbows 5 hits, you would do with an xbow 15k damage while with a bow 14k damage, but thats over 3 secs. Now over 5 secs you would do with a bow 12 hits and with an xbow 7, hits 7 times 3000= 21000 and 12 times 2000=24000.

So in the end, crits or not, after 4-5 secs, the bow does mroe damage. And for wars just aoeing doesnt do much, you also have to focus on getting the clerics and fighters down by single targetting. And why do you need to kite in PvP? It takes 5 secs for an opponent to get to you from max range and with a bow youll get 12 hits in those 5 secs and saying that each hit for 500 damage, youll be doing 6k-12k damage in those 5 secs depending on crits. Thats enough to kill any fighter unless he s stones+pots. And thats without counting possible dots you may have on him.

The fact is, bows will be for pvp and single taret mobs such as bosses and xbows for pve/aoeing.

[nasgax]

[...]And why do you need to kite in PvP? [...]

Umm, if any axe fighter is running at you, it is usually 'smart' to kite him instead of him coming up and stunning you + skill spam, and oh, your dead because it was a +60 str +9 HG axe. kthxbai. :P

[alexvvill]

As expected from Mr. Elias, i wouldnt have thought of that. x]

[Eliasj]

Umm, if any axe fighter is running at you, it is usually 'smart' to kite him instead of him coming up and stunning you + skill spam, and oh, your dead because it was a +60 str +9 HG axe. kthxbai.

Umm, unless youre extended, youll be dead before you reach me as an axe fighter ;D