Why?

[MyYing]

Ok I'm NOT trying to start an argument so PLEASE stay mature in your responses. But I have some major issues with some of. Why is it that a Fighters job is only to tank,Ecspecially when tanks cant hold an aggro.

Now I'm currently all str and do just fine with a good cleric I also have over 500def when I have a shield equiped so why do all End fighters or "tanks" always knock other builds O.o. And if the slangs got ya lost why do all End fighters downtalk other build suggestions or say all fighters are meant to do is tank.

This is an opinion and frankly when I think of a fighter/warrior I see a dmg dealer with awesome def at the same time not someone that hits for 40 and gets hit for 20...the game must really be boring for you ecspecialy if you aint in a pt.

Im not saying str pwns all because we all have our weaknesses,yet I will defend all str fighters to the fullest but just dont say " oh if you build anything besides end you are stupid", because I for one like to think that I'm somewhat intelligent and opinions like those are simply closed minded.

I dont know anymore...just noticed I starting venting which was not my intent, so for all those with a mind period; why is this game so focused on Fighters only being tanks? As for the only build that should be down talked in my opinion, it would have to be an all dex fighter...

Anyway just post your thoughts on this and please lets stay mature ^.- b

[Ekairi]

I, in a sense, agree with some of what you said.
What I don't agree with is talking down about any build at all.
(If a person likes an all Dex build that is their business.)

My point is that this game isn't about who has the greatest build.
Its about having fun.

[madrid951]

Exactly EKAIRI! ! !

ITS ALL ABOUT HAVING FUN!

^_-

[-Leona-]

Well going back to MyYing question, personally i'm a hybrid of Str/End/Spr but if i would have to choose pure Str or End i would go for Str. So my opinion is that they look down on other builds cuz they can withstand damage. What i do believe is that they are only trying to see the negatives of str based, relatively smaller hp and def, and only the positives of End based which is opposite to to str.

And i'm pretty sure the people that say TANKS rock are not playing fighters ingame, i mean i REALLY don't see to many people using sword and shield, it might be me but most fighters i've met while adventuring or guild warring are using 2h weapons, so when people do criticize heavy hitters might be cuz they spend more healing (if clerics) or get whooped easier if other class.

Now let's go to the positives. They are overlooking the positives of full str and negatives of full end, for example if u go grind is like infinetely easier to level up since u kill tons more than with a tank, a full str can also save his party faster if the party is being attacked after for some reason mock didn't work cuz it would be easier to take them out. Mages have a really big problem if the fighter deals very little damage cuz the mobs will often attack the heavy hitter which will probably be the mage and they are easy kills pretty much always. THESE were only a few aspects that people who love tanks and dislike heavy hitters sorta overlook.

THESE people probably only think of one aspect IT'S EASIER to keep a tank alive when fighting a boss, YET if the heavy hitter is well prepared and uses some good scrolls then the clerics won't even know they don't have a pure end tank with them :) and the whole party will be much safer since u run a much lower risk of having the boss attack your support units (especially mages).

My personal favorite builds

1. FULL Spr
2. Hybrid of Str/End/Spr
3. 1:1 Str/End
4. Full Str

In all cases i would use the axe :D

[yourmahder]

My build is a mix of 2spr:2end:1 str... good combo but no one likes it... i wonder why......

[Atmor]

Alright I suppose I have to put in my two cents. I personally am a pure END fighter (Kris on Bijou) and I like it just fine. I will never knock a pure STR build until I try it for myself, but I do understand where you are coming from in believing that str fighters are better, but end fighters are ment to tank. By tank though I mean truly tank not what most people seem to think tanking is. Tanking is supposed to be where you HOLD the aggro so that the DPS characters can kill the enemy without taking the damage. This is best accomplished with a 1h sword and shield because END also adds shield block rate. Now if you want a DPS fighter you want to go pure STR with either a 2h sword or an axe. But all fighters (especially tanks) should know how to use sneering kick and mock effectively.

[Forbin]

As a main cleric (33 thus far), I don't think either way is bad, honestly. If I'm going out to duo I'd prefer a STR based fighter. If I'm in a full party I'd prefer a sword&shield fighter with full END.

In the end, the only time it seriously matters is for boss fights where you're taking on a boss that's just a little bit out of your league, but still doable. In such a scenario, you'll really want the extra defense and shield. 99% of the time, it's completely irrelevant, though.


What it normally boils down to is this:

I'd rather have a competent fighter with me, even if he has +50 INT free stat, if the only other choice is a Leeroy Jenkins idiot that doesn't have a clue how to play the game, yet happens to have +50 END.

In the end, free stats aren't that important. What is important, is the person behind the character, and their ability to play the game properly. Also, as another poster said, HAVE FUN :)

[NoxNox]

i agree with doing whatever build is fun for you
As a mostly all END fighter it does take a lot more time to solo yes, but i never have to worry about 'too many' mobs on me (so far) which to me makes it fun. HIT MEH! i can take it! :cool:

I also empower only skills for aggro gen (my solo'ing suffers but i liek parties)
Its my humble opinion that 'dps' and 'tank' should never be in the same sentence unless its like Atmor's comment above :D

But more to the point i see 2hsword or axe fighters next to me tearing things a lot faster than me. And that does seems like lots of fun, but their hp seems to be a roller coaster ride :p

So far i havent seen my tank build in all the suggestion threads, im sure its out there, the options are limited...

[Summit]

Screw trends its all about experimenting ^^ but ya also having fun.. o_o

[MorpheusX]

The one who has most fun is the winner.

Try to make a full INT fighter, and quess what, at lvl 20 you will became Clever Fighter....a hard evidence that fighter is not always relies on muscles XD.

[Summit]

The one who has most fun is the winner.

Try to make a full INT fighter, and quess what, at lvl 20 you will became Clever Fighter....a hard evidence that fighter is not always relies on muscles XD.

.....I hope thats a joke because you do know everyone recieves that title at 20 and also who completes the dungeon quest...

[NoxNox]

:D of course he meant to be joke :D (i hope)

[Summit]

lol i hope so too.......or..well.. he needs to be slapped if he was serious xP

[MorpheusX]

lol i hope so too.......or..well.. he needs to be slapped if he was serious xP


No need to do that, I already slapped myself with a trout :D

[Summit]

No need to do that, I already slapped myself with a trout :D

Damn can i slap you with an iron gauntlet? =x

[Tasuke]

Ok I'm NOT trying to start an argument so PLEASE stay mature in your responses. But I have some major issues with some of. Why is it that a Fighters job is only to tank,Ecspecially when tanks cant hold an aggro.

Now I'm currently all str and do just fine with a good cleric I also have over 500def when I have a shield equiped so why do all End fighters or "tanks" always knock other builds O.o. And if the slangs got ya lost why do all End fighters downtalk other build suggestions or say all fighters are meant to do is tank.

This is an opinion and frankly when I think of a fighter/warrior I see a dmg dealer with awesome def at the same time not someone that hits for 40 and gets hit for 20...the game must really be boring for you ecspecialy if you aint in a pt.

Im not saying str pwns all because we all have our weaknesses,yet I will defend all str fighters to the fullest but just dont say " oh if you build anything besides end you are stupid", because I for one like to think that I'm somewhat intelligent and opinions like those are simply closed minded.

I dont know anymore...just noticed I starting venting which was not my intent, so for all those with a mind period; why is this game so focused on Fighters only being tanks? As for the only build that should be down talked in my opinion, it would have to be an all dex fighter...

Anyway just post your thoughts on this and please lets stay mature ^.- b

Other players see Fighters as a tanking class. Fighters have the most HP and Defense, so therefore it's just logical to think that they are ment for tanking.

Either way, pure STR or pure END, any Fighter can tank.

[Kholai]

Why do I prefer full endurance tankers to full strength? Hmm....

The best tanker I've met in the game to date is the Famous Leosirth, he not only retains aggro very well (kick takes five seconds cooldown, and two is going to take aggro off pretty much anyone even if you deal 2 damage per hit), but he's got enough HP to tank in the Ancient Elven Woods, and has done since he was level 37, enough to even beat a Heart Trumpy. He's quick to spot if he loses aggro, and quick to regain it, and he has absolutely no compunctions about wading into a dozen enemies and loosing his AOE taunt, and little trouble surviving all those enemies hitting him at once.

You might have guessed, but Leosirth is full endurance. Whilst an extra 23 defence, 4.6% block chance and 230 HP more than a non-endurance build may seem trivial, whenever a hit brings him down to under 230 HP, that hit would have killed him, and then life would be awkward, and I'd have to tank.
Whatever reduction in damage that comes from blocking, and is simply reduced by that extra defence is damage that I don't have to heal, and can spend that time hitting enemies helping make up for the damage that he might lose for being so hard to kill. However much SP I save from not healing as much can go into bash, for even more damage.

Much of this, I'll admit, is attitude. Leosirth is very dedicated. He pays at least as much attention to nearby monsters as I do, and is quick to taunt away anything and everything that threatens to harm the squishies or distract me from healing him. Any non-endurance fighter who is equally competent and dedicated to tanking will be a fine tank, regardless of build.

However, I personally find this attitude is unfortunately quite rare amongst non-endurance fighters, which is rather sad. The worst trait I find in any Fighter is when they're willing to let me, the Heal-Monkey, tank for them. Full-Endurance tankers need to understand their taunts, and they need to be a good tanker because frankly why else would they be playing?

In the end, if there's a fighter in the party, and they are the only fighter, then they are the tank against every single physical damage dealing enemy there is, and if I'm going to have a tank in my party, I want it to be the very best tank I can get, not some axe-wielder who wants to be a damage dealer.


Now, the difference comes when there are two fighters in the party. Now I hold to the idea that the best party is one part tank, two part healer, two part damage dealer. So if a fighter wants to be a damage dealer, then they had better be dealing enough damage to make up for the archer or mage that they're replacing.
Part of the problem with this is obvious. I've played a fighter, I've seen how much SP they get, and how quickly they eat through it, even without being pure endurance or strength. If they're spamming their damage skills against an enemy fast enough to equal the damage dealer they're replacing, then they're using stones and potions faster than everyone else who's doing what they're designed for.
The second part is that of aggro. If you're an archer or a mage who's not using magic blast, then you can sit back near the Healing cleric and pepper whichever is the current target. If you're the attacking cleric or a fighter damage dealer, then you have to worry about taking aggro from further monsters as they spawn. A cleric can ignore them and start self-healing until the tank takes the monster off them. A fighter who's in the front line either ignores the monster, which means the clerics have to start dividing their attention between two targets, or they stop attacking the party target to deal with the new enemy.
They have advantages, of course, if they're being attentive, they can join the clerics in being secondary tanks to protect the squishies. If you're in a safe area of mere yellows and oranges, they can serve as a second tank, and drag even more enemies over for AOE. I'm sure that solo for a strength fighter is probably much easier and faster, just as party-levelling with a tank fighter is much easier and faster.

In the end, I for one will always prefer to party with at very least a majority endurance fighter, because they make my life easiest, that's a shield user, because that also makes my life easier. I would also like to party with a non-full spirit mage, an archer that doesn't waste their points in endurance and is careful not to lure too much, another cleric that's maxed heal and pays attention to my HP on the occassions when all my attention is on the tank's....
I should imagine everyone has similar, if not identical, hopes for a party, and that's why full endurance tanks are so popular.

As to why full endurance fighters knock non-full builds? It's probably something you said. Seriously. Anti-End arguments, pro-End arguments, blah blah blah, fighters've been getting at each other so long that opinions have been polarised into three or four stubborn camps that will probably deny every other builds' viability until the day they die.

[Liala]

Wow Kholai. Quite a read, but a good one. :p I concur

[-Leona-]

U probably haven't played fighter for to long cuz with the right scroll buffs and increased spirit u can get a decent amount of sp, and even though i agreed with most things u said on the forum that last thing u said is ridicolous, is NOT the END stat solely that makes the tank be a good tanker but it's rather the player, i've seen full end fighters fall down in their knees fighting some mobs, i've seen FULL END fighters killed by skelleton knight wearing a level 30 suit. Personally i'm playing with axe and a hybrid build, i've tanked Skelleton Knight at level 25, and yes i was the only fighter in taht party, and neither one of my party members died not even once.

AND no, a fighter was not meant to SIMPLY just tank as u said it, it's job indeed includes tanking for the physically weaker classes but in any case was not meant to JUST TANK as u said it. U think of a fighter as your personal meat shield and that where the problem arises.

If there's good comunication and understanding between players, a cleric may not even feel he is not partied with a full end shield wielding character. U SAID it yourself that guy holds agro very well, but u do know that SNEARING KICK and MOCK is not a skill for FULL END tankers so is the way heuses his ills that makes that guy be such a good tank.

[Kholai]

Leona, I confess that I'm confused. Are you addressing me? I'm fairly sure that what you've said has minimal bearing on what I've said, and you seem to be agreeing entirely with much of what I've said despite seeming violently opposed to whichever post you're responding to.
It's possible, and if it is, must I make like the grouchy gorilla in my signature, or would you care to reread my post once more and process the information slightly better? If it is not related to me, I would appreciate clarification as to whom you are referring to alleviate my confusion. Thanks. :)

[NoxNox]

Kholai -post more on these forums
your opinion is well thought and well written. rare
please keep giving that opinion <3

[-Leona-]

In the end, if there's a fighter in the party, and they are the only fighter, then they are the tank against every single physical damage dealing enemy there is, and if I'm going to have a tank in my party, I want it to be the very best tank I can get, not some axe-wielder who wants to be a damage dealer.


Now, the difference comes when there are two fighters in the party. Now I hold to the idea that the best party is one part tank, two part healer, two part damage dealer. So if a fighter wants to be a damage dealer, then they had better be dealing enough damage to make up for the archer or mage that they're replacing

hmm the information was processed and yes it was addressed to Kholai, i apologize if my post seemed rude or anything.
What i meant is that if a player plays well with his fighter u can won't need to take two spaces in the party to cover the two roles of a tanker and a damage dealer. More precisely what i'm trying to say is that if a fighter is played well the fighter can be a good tank and an awesome damage dealer in the same time.

I believe everyone is aware of the fact that a 100% tank that went full end, and uses a shield will be a pretty pathetic damage dealer.

Yet many other people are ignorant of the fact that a fighter that is played well and is full str, full spr or a combination of the two will be able to tank ALMOST anything, besides maybe some mobs from KQ.

[Kholai]

hmm the information was processed and yes it was addressed to Kholai, i apologize if my post seemed rude or anything.
What i meant is that if a player plays well with his fighter u can won't need to take two spaces in the party to cover the two roles of a tanker and a damage dealer. More precisely what i'm trying to say is that if a fighter is played well the fighter can be a good tank and an awesome damage dealer in the same time.

Hm.... Whilst I accept that a fighter can deal acceptable damage (though I dispute that they will ever equal a mage or archer on the basis of tradeoffs), the reality of the matter is that they will not be quite as good at tanking (I agree they can still tank pretty well) as a full-time tanker, nor as good as damage-dealers as a full on damager.
This is good for duoing with a cleric, where damage is necessary, but with a five man party, it's better to have a tank and two squishies, two clerics.


Yet many other people are ignorant of the fact that a fighter that is played well and is full str, full spr or a combination of the two will be able to tank ALMOST anything, besides maybe some mobs from KQ.

One further point, this becomes less true when you factor in the sheer number of mobs that the fighter will need to tank whilst AOEing.