About this helga shedule thingy~~

[WinterClown]

Since both the threads discussing this got closed, I would like to ask u guys: PLEASE dont flame in this thread.

First of all: If it's possible, i'd like to request a comment about all this from a GM. Thanks ;D

Secondly: As Sasuke said in the other thread, I seriously think that Helga shouldn't be "ksable". I'm quite sure that a lvl 120 monster, with a respawn time of 24 hours, surrounded by lvl 100+ monsters and with an aoe attack that wipes out most non-charmed players, is NOT supposed to be killed by a party/guild of 5-15 people 30 lvls lower than Helga.

My opinion is that this is totally ridiculous. If it was supposed to be killed by 5-15 players, why not make HT a KQ? Or use a system like DT's (max 5 players, for those that don't know)? Any thoughts? (Let me have my opinion please :))

Once again, please keep this thread clean. x) thx~

DON'T DISCUSS SG HERE PLEASE x)

[Myrielle]

I doubt that you can just go in n say HELLOOO HELGA 8D I CAME TO KS YOU..and do so while another guild is on it atm..you would just..

DIE. lol

even if u go in with a party/guild whatever ...since its already decided "which" guilds do have the manpower to kill helga..ppl shouldn't be scared of gettin ksed..so far as you guys said its an "agreement" between these guilds..so why being afraid of gettin ksed?
"other" guilds that aren't in the list dont even meet the rules/requirements some ppl made up so..with other words..they'd be too weak to ks

and ye the best solution would be make it like DT.

[artboi]

Since both the threads discussing this got closed, I would like to ask u guys: PLEASE dont flame in this thread.

First of all: If it's possible, i'd like to request a comment about all this from a GM. Thanks ;D

Secondly: As Sasuke said in the other thread, I seriously think that Helga shouldn't be "ksable". I'm quite sure that a lvl 120 monster, with a respawn time of 24 hours, surrounded by lvl 100+ monsters and with an aoe attack that wipes out most non-charmed players, is NOT supposed to be killed by a party/guild of 5-15 people 30 lvls lower than Helga.

My opinion is that this is totally ridiculous. If it was supposed to be killed by 5-15 players, why not make HT a KQ? Or use a system like DT's (max 5 players, for those that don't know)? Any thoughts? (Let me have my opinion please :))

Once again, please keep this thread clean. x) thx~

Well my guild, Mighty_Army, BusouIIRenkin, Milky, Collision, Inner_Circle, have proven that it is killed by 5 to 15 people.
If that is possible, then it indeed is KSable.

Like hoozey/recurve said in the last thread like this one. If i wasnt alrdy in a guild/group that has the ability to kill helga as it is, i would go out a recruit strong people and ask for a slot in one of the free days, instead of trying to ruin the schedule that keeps peace and order between all the guilds.

Do you really stop and think what would be like if we didnt have this schedule?
6 of the strongest guilds of teva would be at war 24/7 pretty much. But instead we are all concurring with this fine idea brought up by neon and meek.
Do you really not see how this has helped for the last 2 weeks that this was implemented?
We have done this cycle for 2 weeks in a row, with just minimal drama, which in my opinion is awsome. We all get what we want all due time.

There was a thread for mercenaries to helga raid. why not call out all the people from there? Make a Helga raiders party/ies and ask for a slot. There are alot of strong players that signed up in there.

I know about the times but this is something that is pretty much out of our control and HVG have been doing just fine.

[Johawna]

My opinion is that i think this schedule thingy would work.. IF there was an outspark staff person that can take care of the schedule so people can contact that person to "sign up" for a day to have the helga raid. and then not for having KSing, only the people that is in that guild can come into helgas tomb.
and i think people doesnt think this work already, because atm its just random players that is deciding and makes up the rules = no fair.

[artboi]

My opinion is that i think this schedule thingy would work.. IF there was an outspark staff person that can take care of the schedule so people can contact that person to "sign up" for a day to have the helga raid. and then not for having KSing, only the people that is in that guild can come into helgas tomb.
and i think people doesnt think this work already, because atm its just random players that is deciding and makes up the rules = no fair.

These random players have taken a role that they didnt have to take, but they decided to just to keep order. They are not the law we know that, they are just kind of designers. They make the guidelines, the details, dimensions, the rules, that should be followed to craft a working piece. There won't be a working piece without a schedule, there wont be a working piece without people that want to make something out of this schedule.

Bottom line is that you guys keep complaining about the schedule, but you dont even bother to give Meek or Neon ideas on how to make it better. You dont make an effort to get a group together to make your own helga raids and sign them up in the schedule.

[Myrielle]

Do you really not see how this has helped for the last 2 weeks that this was implemented?

of course it may help these guilds that are in the list mostly, but we dont have a chance to see how it helps because for example SG doesnt have 5 slots in 5 weeks to be able to kill helga :/
thats the whole problem. we would see it better if we could have a piece of the cake >>' ( lol that sounded weird)
well anyways
of course people get mad if they see this calendar and see guilds having 5+ days while others dont :/ and so this is why i cant understand why ppl dont understand why we are complaining.
and you know we even came up with an idea to share helga with another guild, on one and only day
and some people were even against that..so
so its just natural with this some people feel left out
thats all i want to say and make people understand

[artboi]

of course it may help these guilds that are in the list mostly, but we dont have a chance to see how it helps because for example SG doesnt have 5 slots in 5 weeks to be able to kill helga :/
thats the whole problem. we would see it better if we could have a piece of the cake >>' ( lol that sounded weird)
well anyways
of course people get mad if they see this calendar and see guilds having 5+ days while others dont :/ and so this is why i cant understand why ppl dont understand why we are complaining.
and you know we even came up with an idea to share helga with another guild, on one and only day
and some people were even against that..so
so its just natural with this some people feel left out
thats all i want to say and make people understand

I do see why you guys are complaining but you are only complaining and not making an effort to get a group together. Maybe is because you want your guild to have the drops for themselves. Another thing is that you guys dont really have the man power needed to kill helga (your guild). Maybe you do, I dont know. But i do know that you guys have alot of time to get a group together to get a shot at helga, so why complain at the people that alrdy have the power, and the time to do it, just because you guys lack these things.

[Myrielle]

I do see why you guys are complaining but you are only complaining and not making an effort to get a group together. Maybe is because you want your guild to have the drops for themselves. Another thing is that you guys dont really have the man power needed to kill helga (your guild). Maybe you do, I dont know. But i do know that you guys have alot of time to get a group together to get a shot at helga, so why complain at the people that alrdy have the power, and the time to do it, just because you guys lack these things.


Thats why we arranged a day for SG and V_K to raid together, thats the group we built up, to have one chance. And the drops would be split up , thats the deal.
You know , if we killed helga that day, everyone would have the proof that we have the manpower, or atleast as group with V_K together...but it wouldnt give us more spots in the calendar, would it :/
Im not complaining about yo having the manpower to kill it..its cool, but you know some guilds already have like 20+ helgait weapon and whine when they have to jump off for a day to make room for someone else
and thats whats not fair :/

[artboi]

Thats why we arranged a day for SG and V_K to raid together, thats the group we built up, to have one chance. And the drops would be split up , thats the deal.
You know , if we killed helga that day, everyone would have the proof that we have the manpower, or atleast as group with V_K together...but it wouldnt give us more spots in the calendar, would it :/
Im not complaining about yo having the manpower to kill it..its cool, but you know some guilds already have like 20+ helgait weapon and whine when they have to jump off for a day to make room for someone else
and thats whats not fair :/

No one whined, BR gave up a day because they were pretty much tired of the whining.
No guild has bothered mine with the day we get. So there isnt a reason for me to give it up.
You guys have a group alrdy. You got the man power. Why wont you get another spot in the calendar? There shouldnt be a reason why you shouldnt get more turns if you got the minimums to kill helga.

And whats not very fair how meek and neon are doing this much work that they dont have to, and people tag them as the wanna be GMs of the game.

[Johawna]

These random players have taken a role that they didnt have to take, but they decided to just to keep order. They are not the law we know that, they are just kind of designers. They make the guidelines, the details, dimensions, the rules, that should be followed to craft a working piece. There won't be a working piece without a schedule, there wont be a working piece without people that want to make something out of this schedule.

Bottom line is that you guys keep complaining about the schedule, but you dont even bother to give Meek or Neon ideas on how to make it better. You dont make an effort to get a group together to make your own helga raids and sign them up in the schedule.

Oh dear. Neon is my ig Hubby. i discuss this with him almost everyday. and i've given him ideas on plenty stuff to do. but sure, atrm he's on vaccation so he cant do anything. that's not my problem.
and yea, in that reply i wasn't just complaining right? i came up with an idea how it could be better but nono. just read the bad part eh? -.-

[artboi]

Oh dear. Neon is my ig Hubby. i discuss this with him almost everyday. and i've given him ideas on plenty stuff to do. but sure, atrm he's on vaccation so he cant do anything. that's not my problem.
and yea, in that reply i wasn't just complaining right? i came up with an idea how it could be better but nono. just read the bad part eh? -.-

Your idea of getting a GM to regulate this schedule is out of reach pretty much. Maybe a CL which have a little more say so over the forums yes, but a GM is too busy with their Store pretty much and trying to fix bugs.

I did see your idea, but it was out of reach pretty much. At most you will get an opinion from a GM and thats all.
Its hard to ignore the flaws in your complains because so far we have a working schedule to fit the people that make an effort to create a group to kill helga.

[Iffrit]

Thats why we arranged a day for SG and V_K to raid together, thats the group we built up, to have one chance. And the drops would be split up , thats the deal.
You know , if we killed helga that day, everyone would have the proof that we have the manpower, or atleast as group with V_K together...but it wouldnt give us more spots in the calendar, would it :/
Im not complaining about yo having the manpower to kill it..its cool, but you know some guilds already have like 20+ helgait weapon and whine when they have to jump off for a day to make room for someone else
and thats whats not fair :/

My suggestion :
1. Ask Meek/Neon to get a day for you guys
2. Prove that you can kill Helga w/o outside help
3. You guys must try to fit with the schedule, for example u must kill helga before 2PM OS Time. It is for the good of all guilds in the schedule, especially the one who get day at maintenance day.
4. Please stop complaining to Meek/Neon. They did so much effort on this, just to avoid all dramas beetwen guild. Just do the point 1,2,3. Cmon, we shouldn't fighting and arguing each other just cause of a weapon that will screw pvp system later.

Im sure Meek/Neon will think about giving you guys another chance on beating Helga after ur first raid. Of course they will see if the raid went well or not, including drama or not etc.
I have been reading all of this "Helga" Thread, arguing of Helga, but I think we should stop now. We as Tevian shouldnt fighting each other.
So this talking and arguing is kinda pointless.
You better act then just talking/arguing.
Go sign up for a raid, contact Meek/Neon :p
notes : sry my english is not too good

[Johawna]

Your idea of getting a GM to regulate this schedule is out of reach pretty much. Maybe a CL which have a little more say so over the forums yes, but a GM is too busy with their Store pretty much and trying to fix bugs.

I did see your idea, but it was out of reach pretty much. At most you will get an opinion from a GM and thats all.
Its hard to ignore the flaws in your complains because so far we have a working schedule to fit the people that make an effort to create a group to kill helga.

first of all, i never said the word GM :3 i said outspark staff. and that includes a CL :3
but yea, all im saying is that: if they're gonna have this schedule thingy they should make it more fair. and let other guilds come in and try.
because now its just.. weird and all the most "known" guilds are on the schedule like as if it was a weekly routine for them.

[WinterClown]

Well my guild, Mighty_Army, BusouIIRenkin, Milky, Collision, Inner_Circle, have proven that it is killed by 5 to 15 people.
If that is possible, then it indeed is KSable.
What i was saying was that I'm sure it shouldn't be like that.
Like hoozey/recurve said in the last thread like this one. If i wasnt alrdy in a guild/group that has the ability to kill helga as it is, i would go out a recruit strong people and ask for a slot in one of the free days, instead of trying to ruin the schedule that keeps peace and order between all the guilds.
I'm sorry, but I am not trying to "ruin" the schedule, I'm discussing how fair it is. *Moral of the story* If something is bad, don't continue doing it. I'm discussing if this schedule is fair or not.
Do you really stop and think what would be like if we didnt have this schedule?
6 of the strongest guilds of teva would be at war 24/7 pretty much.
But instead we are all concurring with this fine idea brought up by neon and meek.
We've been without this schedule for x months, and others servers don't even have one. I'm sure you can avoid warring eachothers without a schedule if u you are, as i get the impression of, "mature" enough to follow this schedule.
Do you really not see how this has helped for the last 2 weeks that this was implemented?
We have done this cycle for 2 weeks in a row, with just minimal drama, which in my opinion is awsome. We all get what we want all due time.
I don't think this is "minimal drama". Yeah, it's nice with a schedule and all, but if it isn't fair it shouldn't be there. + I haven't experienced any pros with this so far.

There was a thread for mercenaries to helga raid. why not call out all the people from there? Make a Helga raiders party/ies and ask for a slot. There are alot of strong players that signed up in there.
I'm sure they're very strong. I know that one of our guildies, signed up there aswell, as he thought we wouldn't get any day to raid on. The problem as it is now is not to get enough manpower, as we could "hire" the mercenaries if we lack some players (We also "teamed up" with V_K), but to get a time that is suitable. (blah, sorry, i shouldn't discuss SG here...) I can't be there on "our" raid, sadly. It's 4-6 am here and I have to sleep.
I know about the times but this is something that is pretty much out of our control and HVG have been doing just fine.
Yeah, they should be happy :) Wish i could join.

These random players have taken a role that they didnt have to take, but they decided to just to keep order. They are not the law we know that, they are just kind of designers. They make the guidelines, the details, dimensions, the rules, that should be followed to craft a working piece. There won't be a working piece without a schedule, there wont be a working piece without people that want to make something out of this schedule.

Bottom line is that you guys keep complaining about the schedule, but you dont even bother to give Meek or Neon ideas on how to make it better. You dont make an effort to get a group together to make your own helga raids and sign them up in the schedule.
*copy/paste* "if it isn't fair it shouldn't be there." As i said above, i've proposed that we should have server raids every day, and i know other players that are against the schedule, also brought some ideas. *defense for SG* An admin from our guild made a HUGE effort to get us a day to raid.

No one whined, BR gave up a day because they were pretty much tired of the whining.
Yeah that was nice. I hope other guilds can use it. Wish i could be there.
No guild has bothered mine with the day we get. So there isnt a reason for me to give it up.
Nope. Other than that I and some others are against this schedule, and think that no guild should "own" a day.
You guys have a group alrdy. You got the man power. Why wont you get another spot in the calendar? There shouldnt be a reason why you shouldnt get more turns if you got the minimums to kill helga.
We've tried to accustumate ourselves to the schedule, even though some of us don't like it. Now we got one (I think?). I really hope enough players can be there at that time.
And whats not very fair how meek and neon are doing this much work that they dont have to, and people tag them as the wanna be GMs of the game.
Yeah, meek and neon made a great job with this schedule, +rep. BUT if it's unfair it shouldn't be there. I'm not nagging at meek or neon at all, i'm just against this schedule.

My suggestion :
1. Ask Meek/Neon to get a day for you guys
2. Prove that you can kill Helga w/o outside help
3. You guys must try to fit with the schedule, for example u must kill helga before 2PM OS Time. It is for the good of all guilds in the schedule, especially the one who get day at maintenance day.
4. Please stop complaining to Meek/Neon. They did so much effort on this, just to avoid all dramas beetwen guild. Just do the point 1,2,3. Cmon, we shouldn't fighting and arguing each other just cause of a weapon that will screw pvp system later.

Im sure Meek/Neon will think about giving you guys another chance on beating Helga after ur first raid. Of course they will see if the raid went well or not, including drama or not etc.
I have been reading all of this "Helga" Thread, arguing of Helga, but I think we should stop now. We as Tevian shouldnt fighting each other.
So this talking and arguing is kinda pointless.
You better act then just talking/arguing.
Go sign up for a raid, contact Meek/Neon :p
notes : sry my english is not too good
Thanks for the input. :) And yeah, it's pointless if we can't make things better, but i think we can.

And uhm, i didn't make this thread to discuss whether i or my guild should get a day to raid or not. I'm discussing how fair this schedule is. (Sorry if it gets repetitive and that I didn't say that in my first post. x.x)

[HeroicAce]

well winter, i dont think its perfectly fair, but i do think its better than how it would be if we didnt have it. if it wasnt there, every day all the big guilds that make up the main portion of the schedule would go to the tomb and fight and war over him. then if a small guild or group ever tried to kill him chances are they would be warred and chased off by the others. not to say those guilds are bad, in fact i have a friend or two in almost all of them and hear good things about the guilds, but everyone wants drops and if there was no order then fighting would almost certainly be the outcome. and finally, yes the other servers dont have a schedule, but the OS staff has had to step in and monitor helga cause of all the fights and violations of ToS that have occured there. they also issued a warning to us that happend to come on the day after our only huge mess up with the schedule. and since we have fixed the schedule to my knowledge we have not had another warning from them.

and i think it was myri that was talking about having only 1 slot to the other's 4-5. i know that if you kill him the first time you will be added to more. collision started out with one shot and earned another once they killed him, and i believe milky was the same although not entirely sure on that one.

I hope im not sounding accusing or anything, im trying to stay as unbiased as possible here. im trying only to discuss the situation as asked by winter and keep my own feelings out of it. if you dont think i did that let me know and ill delete this.

[FuSiOnStealth]

Secondly: As Sasuke said in the other thread, I seriously think that Helga shouldn't be "ksable". I'm quite sure that a lvl 120 monster, with a respawn time of 24 hours, surrounded by lvl 100+ monsters and with an aoe attack that wipes out most non-charmed players, is NOT supposed to be killed by a party/guild of 5-15 people 30 lvls lower than Helga.

My opinion is that this is totally ridiculous. If it was supposed to be killed by 5-15 players, why not make HT a KQ? Or use a system like DT's (max 5 players, for those that don't know)? Any thoughts? (Let me have my opinion please :))



I think I agree with your assertion that Helga should not be 'ksable'. I think (instead of know ^^) because I believe what you are saying is that Helga is too easy to kill in his current form. If this is what you are saying, then yes, I agree whole heartily. Helga is supposed to be the lvl 120 boss monster and it really should not be possible to kill with with a 5 person team ^^.

If a GM or other OutSpark staff member reads this thread, I'm hopeful that they will walk away with feeling that making Helga harder to kill would be a good thing. I don't think that GM/OS persons should be getting involved in how Teva is managing the farming of Helga. This is really a intra-player issue and what Meek/Neon have been doing is perfect. Well perfect in the sense that it blows away Helga farming on the other three servers ^^.

I do not think that Helga should follow the DT model. This would only make it easier to farm and I dont think we should be able to farm so easily.

I don't think Hega could/should be a KQ... I really dont understand this one, but know I don't like it as a possible option (big dungeon fan here).

The Helgait weapons are the cats meow; kinda what 70 blues used to be. The should be near impossible to get. I think the current ease of Helga farming is taking away from both the smexiness of acquiring one of these weapons and is devaluing the level 100+ ingame experience. When we were flooded with 70 KQ (GM KQ to be specific) blues, I think the expectations of the value of a blue (and now, orange) really changed. Previously it was a rare item and you were special when you got one ^^. Now its almost an expectation. This type of 'attitude' is now being applied to the Helgait oranges and this attitude is why I agree with you #2 from your original post. If everyone is Helgait equipped then why is it special to get a Helgait weapon.

Stealthy

[trav13so]

Since both the threads discussing this got closed, I would like to ask u guys: PLEASE dont flame in this thread.

First of all: If it's possible, i'd like to request a comment about all this from a GM. Thanks ;D

Secondly: As Sasuke said in the other thread, I seriously think that Helga shouldn't be "ksable". I'm quite sure that a lvl 120 monster, with a respawn time of 24 hours, surrounded by lvl 100+ monsters and with an aoe attack that wipes out most non-charmed players, is NOT supposed to be killed by a party/guild of 5-15 people 30 lvls lower than Helga.

My opinion is that this is totally ridiculous. If it was supposed to be killed by 5-15 players, why not make HT a KQ? Or use a system like DT's (max 5 players, for those that don't know)? Any thoughts? (Let me have my opinion please :))

Once again, please keep this thread clean. x) thx~

DON'T DISCUSS SG HERE PLEASE x)


I dont think Outspark Loves us that much to make a kq :p XD

lol ervy one wrote like 7+ sentence and i yust did one ;D XD

[KenshinGi]

I've come to notice that the biggest gripe with the schedule is how, guilds that are not on the schedule seem to feel, that those on it are taking over that spot and prohibiting anyone from entering it, under the threat of war. That is the main problem with the way the schedule functions, What would happen for instance, if on a day that the Schedule deemed was Inner_Circle's day to raid there was (GuildX) in there already and they had killed Helga? Even though GuildX was there first? And by every right since Spot claiming on any other map is prohibited?

Note this: (GuildX) is not part of the agreement so they have neither reason nor want to follow its rules, Would then I_C (also sorry I_C I merely chose your guild because it was the first to come to mind, please forgive me if it seems like i picked on you) War GuildX, because they killed Helga on a day that the schedule deemed it I_C's turn?

That kind of thinking is what has crated a general dislike of the schedule by most of the smaller guilds. They view it as Spot claiming, and regardless of how many ppl say it's to avoid drama or how many CL's support it, at its base that is exactly what it is. The guilds that have not been added to the schedule or have no wish to be on it, have EVERY right to raid as they wish and do as they wish with that map, However whether out of politeness or fear they chose not to.

Remember now that Helga has been proven to be taken down with as little as 7 players.. This of course means that any guild with 10 or more level 8x+ has the capability to take down Helga. If any number of Guilds chose to take it out and they were not part of the schedule and they got warred by a guild because they took it out before a *Schedule Guild* got to it, then it would be the *Schedule Guild* who is harrassing and warring over a spot, and far worse over a kill.

These are merely the way many guilds view the system in place. "We cant raid because if we do we get warred by a much bigger guild" this thought along with "We cant get on the schedule bcause we haven't *proven ourselves to those in charge of the Schedule* that we are strong enough to take down Helga" is what most guilds not on the schedule are feeling at the moment. Which should no come as a surprise to the larger guilds that there is resentment over the way that spot is being allocated, since claiming a spot is technically (and i mean that VERY VERY technically) agaisnt the ToS.

The Schedule is a sincere attempt to qualm the fights that would otherwise issue over that particular kill. However it really only benefits the people on it. Those that have been most outspoken in it's defence have mostly been members from the guilds that have a secure place in it. Of COURSE smaller guilds cant take what those members say to heart as it's clear that it is already beneficial to them.

This is not to flame and I genuienly don't mean for it to sound that way, I am merely trying to express the views from another perspective. I do belive that the people in charge of the schedule have done it with good intentions, however there is no denying the very obvious flaws in a system that benefits only the people on it.

Once again I apologize to Inner Circle for using your name, was merely for the purpose of explanation.

[Celtic_Princess]

I think I agree with your assertion that Helga should not be 'ksable'. I think (instead of know ^^) because I believe what you are saying is that Helga is too easy to kill in his current form. If this is what you are saying, then yes, I agree whole heartily. Helga is supposed to be the lvl 120 boss monster and it really should not be possible to kill with with a 5 person team ^^.

If a GM or other OutSpark staff member reads this thread, I'm hopeful that they will walk away with feeling that making Helga harder to kill would be a good thing. I don't think that GM/OS persons should be getting involved in how Teva is managing the farming of Helga. This is really a intra-player issue and what Meek/Neon have been doing is perfect. Well perfect in the sense that it blows away Helga farming on the other three servers ^^.

I do not think that Helga should follow the DT model. This would only make it easier to farm and I dont think we should be able to farm so easily.

As a player, I agree with this. The DT instance situation would eliminate a good portion of the problems involved in the Helga situation. I'd be more than happy to suggest this to staff.


and i think it was myri that was talking about having only 1 slot to the other's 4-5. i know that if you kill him the first time you will be added to more. collision started out with one shot and earned another once they killed him, and i believe milky was the same although not entirely sure on that one.


Its my own understanding that you get the initial raid day as kind of a 'test' to prove that you can kill Helga on a regular basis. Once you've defeated Helga the guild is worked into the schedule on a more consistent basis.

Milky actually took 2 tries to kill Helga. Our initial raid was ruined by a trainer and we couldn't get it back together after that...the second raid was successful and now we have become a regular part of the schedule :)

first of all, i never said the word GM :3 i said outspark staff. and that includes a CL :3
but yea, all im saying is that: if they're gonna have this schedule thingy they should make it more fair. and let other guilds come in and try.
because now its just.. weird and all the most "known" guilds are on the schedule like as if it was a weekly routine for them.

To be honest, there is very little that I as a CL could do that would be any different from what they are attempting. The best I can do is to monitor the thread and make sure no one is flaming and that things are somewhat fair. If you wish for me to do this I would be more than happy to.

However, I do think that perhaps a large portion of this conflict is simple misunderstanding over the idea of getting that first raid. From what I understand the calendar posted on the first page of the Helga thread is subject to change when new guilds want to participate.

That said, those guilds must be willing to give a little too. Ideal spawn times rarely occur...I've been lucky enough to make it to 2 of Milky's raids (one of which was on my bf's birthday...and he was nice enough to let me bail on plans for an hour to participate) but from this point on they will be occuring while I'm at work...I wish it could be different but in the interest of everyone involved I don't mind sitting out.

Specifically to address this part of the post:
because now its just.. weird and all the most "known" guilds are on the schedule like as if it was a weekly routine for them.

I can understand why it looks that way. If I'd just come into this I'd be confused about how the schedule works. However, as more guilds choose to participate the guilds that seem to have a 'weekly' routine will find that they must give up those days to accomodate others. Every guild on that list right now is willing to do so in the interest of a peaceful server :)

[pokemon4955]

There are some "free day" i notce lately on meek's calender,maybe whoever guild would like to try helga can take those spots to see if they can prove to kill it,if they can ,meek can put you guys on a daily slots,if i amright o_o

[dryuuyuuyy]

I've come to notice that the biggest gripe with the schedule is how, guilds that are not on the schedule seem to feel, that those on it are taking over that spot and prohibiting anyone from entering it, under the threat of war. That is the main problem with the way the schedule functions, What would happen for instance, if on a day that the Schedule deemed was Inner_Circle's day to raid there was (GuildX) in there already and they had killed Helga? Even though GuildX was there first? And by every right since Spot claiming on any other map is prohibited?

Note this: (GuildX) is not part of the agreement so they have neither reason nor want to follow its rules, Would then I_C (also sorry I_C I merely chose your guild because it was the first to come to mind, please forgive me if it seems like i picked on you) War GuildX, because they killed Helga on a day that the schedule deemed it I_C's turn?

That kind of thinking is what has crated a general dislike of the schedule by most of the smaller guilds. They view it as Spot claiming, and regardless of how many ppl say it's to avoid drama or how many CL's support it, at its base that is exactly what it is. The guilds that have not been added to the schedule or have no wish to be on it, have EVERY right to raid as they wish and do as they wish with that map, However whether out of politeness or fear they chose not to.

Remember now that Helga has been proven to be taken down with as little as 7 players.. This of course means that any guild with 10 or more level 8x+ has the capability to take down Helga. If any number of Guilds chose to take it out and they were not part of the schedule and they got warred by a guild because they took it out before a *Schedule Guild* got to it, then it would be the *Schedule Guild* who is harrassing and warring over a spot, and far worse over a kill.

These are merely the way many guilds view the system in place. "We cant raid because if we do we get warred by a much bigger guild" this thought along with "We cant get on the schedule bcause we haven't *proven ourselves to those in charge of the Schedule* that we are strong enough to take down Helga" is what most guilds not on the schedule are feeling at the moment. Which should no come as a surprise to the larger guilds that there is resentment over the way that spot is being allocated, since claiming a spot is technically (and i mean that VERY VERY technically) agaisnt the ToS.

The Schedule is a sincere attempt to qualm the fights that would otherwise issue over that particular kill. However it really only benefits the people on it. Those that have been most outspoken in it's defence have mostly been members from the guilds that have a secure place in it. Of COURSE smaller guilds cant take what those members say to heart as it's clear that it is already beneficial to them.

This is not to flame and I genuienly don't mean for it to sound that way, I am merely trying to express the views from another perspective. I do belive that the people in charge of the schedule have done it with good intentions, however there is no denying the very obvious flaws in a system that benefits only the people on it.

Once again I apologize to Inner Circle for using your name, was merely for the purpose of explanation.

nicely typed ;o

[Kyo_Sama]

being chaotic evil means not having to follow schedules though >.>


wait wrong game :|

[IroguroMeek]

My opinion is that i think this schedule thingy would work.. IF there was an outspark staff person that can take care of the schedule so people can contact that person to "sign up" for a day to have the helga raid. and then not for having KSing, only the people that is in that guild can come into helgas tomb.
and i think people doesnt think this work already, because atm its just random players that is deciding and makes up the rules = no fair.

Unfortunately we have yet to have an Outspark Staff to come over and take a leadership position on this schedule. CL's do not get any special privileges in-game, infact they have just as much power as you and I, their responsiblity is monitoring the forums. If GL's were still around, then maybe your suggestion would work out great, but I am sure that GMs and CSRs are too busy with their jobs to take an active role in this. If you feel that me being a random player and deciding all this is fair, then who do you feel could make decisions and be fair to everyone?

I've come to notice that the biggest gripe with the schedule is how, guilds that are not on the schedule seem to feel, that those on it are taking over that spot and prohibiting anyone from entering it, under the threat of war. That is the main problem with the way the schedule functions, What would happen for instance, if on a day that the Schedule deemed was Inner_Circle's day to raid there was (GuildX) in there already and they had killed Helga? Even though GuildX was there first? And by every right since Spot claiming on any other map is prohibited?

Note this: (GuildX) is not part of the agreement so they have neither reason nor want to follow its rules, Would then I_C (also sorry I_C I merely chose your guild because it was the first to come to mind, please forgive me if it seems like i picked on you) War GuildX, because they killed Helga on a day that the schedule deemed it I_C's turn?

That kind of thinking is what has crated a general dislike of the schedule by most of the smaller guilds. They view it as Spot claiming, and regardless of how many ppl say it's to avoid drama or how many CL's support it, at its base that is exactly what it is. The guilds that have not been added to the schedule or have no wish to be on it, have EVERY right to raid as they wish and do as they wish with that map, However whether out of politeness or fear they chose not to.

Remember now that Helga has been proven to be taken down with as little as 7 players.. This of course means that any guild with 10 or more level 8x+ has the capability to take down Helga. If any number of Guilds chose to take it out and they were not part of the schedule and they got warred by a guild because they took it out before a *Schedule Guild* got to it, then it would be the *Schedule Guild* who is harrassing and warring over a spot, and far worse over a kill.

These are merely the way many guilds view the system in place. "We cant raid because if we do we get warred by a much bigger guild" this thought along with "We cant get on the schedule bcause we haven't *proven ourselves to those in charge of the Schedule* that we are strong enough to take down Helga" is what most guilds not on the schedule are feeling at the moment. Which should no come as a surprise to the larger guilds that there is resentment over the way that spot is being allocated, since claiming a spot is technically (and i mean that VERY VERY technically) agaisnt the ToS.

The Schedule is a sincere attempt to qualm the fights that would otherwise issue over that particular kill. However it really only benefits the people on it. Those that have been most outspoken in it's defence have mostly been members from the guilds that have a secure place in it. Of COURSE smaller guilds cant take what those members say to heart as it's clear that it is already beneficial to them.

This is not to flame and I genuienly don't mean for it to sound that way, I am merely trying to express the views from another perspective. I do belive that the people in charge of the schedule have done it with good intentions, however there is no denying the very obvious flaws in a system that benefits only the people on it.

Once again I apologize to Inner Circle for using your name, was merely for the purpose of explanation.

The problem is that, even without this schedule, guilds would still be warring other guilds for going into ToH when they are raiding. Don't believe me? Ask the guilds before this schedule was made and how many times they got warred for going into ToH. That is why it is important that any guild/group who wants to raid actually takes the time to be part of the schedule so they do not get warred. So with that said, I ask everyone this. Would you:

a) Get warred for interrupting another guilds raid.
or
b) Sign up for the schedule, and avoid the wars.


We have already stated that if for some reason, the guild that is appointed a day does not get their Helga kill due to reason's such as kill-steal or server crashes, we would appoint them a new day to compensate. And I've seen over and over of people stating that it is unfair that we do not give days to every guild wanting to raid.

When have we actually rejected a guild for getting a spot? It is common sense that you need a certain amount of people at the right level with cashshop to kill Helga. I don't think it is very much to ask for the stats of 4 characters. You do not even have to charm and take an ss, giving me a rough estimate, or giving me the stats uncharmed and simply state that you do have access to 50% or 70% charms, and I'd do the math.

There are some "free day" i notce lately on meek's calender,maybe whoever guild would like to try helga can take those spots to see if they can prove to kill it,if they can ,meek can put you guys on a daily slots,if i amright o_o

Exactly, I made the schedule monthly because people or new guilds/groups signing up can see what available days we have. If they want a spot, they can send over the information and then pick a date they want. We only give one day to start off with, once the guild/group has proven they can kill Helga, they will be given more days and if they can not kill it, they can sign up for another day after each guild on the waiting list gets their shot at it as well.

It is extremely frustrating for me, because I am trying to make it so that every guild who has the potential to kill Helga gets a fair chance. And it would help me greatly, instead of complaining about the fairness of this schedule, that you guys give me feedback or input to better the system instead of just suggesting we trash it.

Trust me, those of you who want us to trash the schedule and go back to random server raids will have less of a chance to actually get to raid. I honestly do not see server raids being fair at all, because I personally do not feel that it is right that I have to spend spark cash and time to tank/pull helga and the mobs, just so in the end a random person can get the last hit and get the drops.

[KenshinGi]

The problem is that, even without this schedule, guilds would still be warring other guilds for going into ToH when they are raiding. Don't believe me? Ask the guilds before this schedule was made and how many times they got warred for going into ToH. That is why it is important that any guild/group who wants to raid actually takes the time to be part of the schedule so they do not get warred. So with that said, I ask everyone this. Would you:

a) Get warred for interrupting another guilds raid.
or
b) Sign up for the schedule, and avoid the wars.


We have already stated that if for some reason, the guild that is appointed a day does not get their Helga kill due to reason's such as kill-steal or server crashes, we would appoint them a new day to compensate. And I've seen over and over of people stating that it is unfair that we do not give days to every guild wanting to raid.

When have we actually rejected a guild for getting a spot? It is common sense that you need a certain amount of people at the right level with cashshop to kill Helga. I don't think it is very much to ask for the stats of 4 characters. You do not even have to charm and take an ss, giving me a rough estimate, or giving me the stats uncharmed and simply state that you do have access to 50% or 70% charms, and I'd do the math.



Ohh i dont disagree that the schedul that you have created is so far the best thing we have going, and if i came off critical I do apologize for it. My post was merely to point out the reasons for a lot of the dislikes and arguments.

Frankly we've done the best that we could given the circumstances, However you should relent to knowing that no matter how many people (in tis case guilds) u try to please there will always be those left unsatisfied,

I was merely trying to point my opinion as to WHY people are unhappy and WHY people are angry.

The fact that we would get warred merely for killing a mob is enough to drive anyone to the point of anger. And the fact that no Official Ladership or desicion regarding Helga's Tomb has stepped forward people have found themselves almost (again I say ALMOST) forced to listen to rules set up by players, NOT OS staff but regular players are making up there and expecting pople to abide by them, Look at it from their point of view, smaller guilds are now forced to listen to the rules and guidelines that have been set up by regular players, However noble your intentions, you must realize that other people will see it as bullying and demanding of you.

(again i stress that I am only trying to point out both sides of an argument)

I openly blame OS and their desicion for the 24hour spawn time for this situation

[Spankle]

However noble your intentions, you must realize that other people will see it as bullying and demanding of you.

This annoys me because the guys that made the schedule are doing their best to accomodate their needs too. There are free days to help said guilds get a spot. When my guild was not on the schedule I never felt we were being "bullied" or forced out from helga as the free day offered this opportunity.

Is it so much to ask to do an intended raid on a specific day to maintain server peace?

[KenshinGi]

This annoys me because the guys that made the schedule are doing their best to accomodate their needs too. There are free days to help said guilds get a spot. When my guild was not on the schedule I never felt we were being "bullied" or forced out from helga as the free day offered this opportunity.

Is it so much to ask to do an intended raid on a specific day to maintain server peace?

This annoys me becaus you have neglected to notice the REASON for my post, that comment is a fact, there are many people who think just like that, theres no need to get overly angry about it ,as its a person's opinion, and you cant stop people from thinking or disagreeing with you or other people.

As i stated REPEATEDLY, I neither blame nor am i angry at the people making the schedule, as the situation is not thier fault.

However a lot of people view the way the schedule has ben set up and the rules as to who can and can't raid as unfair and demanding ESPECIALLY because it does not come from an official source but rather from another player.

LET ME SAY IT AGAIN, thse are merely opinions that i have seen over and over placed in my own words, as have no anger towards those it concerns i can speak without judging them, that i speak of others judging or criticizing is not the same as me doing it.

I have given my viws about this already, No i dont like the schdule at all, HOWEVER i do understand the nessecity for it,

IT IS THE NESSECITY of such a schedule that I am angry at, not those whose intention was to try and resolv ethings fairly, That others dont see it that way is neither here nor there, again i was merely stated my opinion of several opinions.

The only way to stop a person from disagreing with you is to stop them from thinking, and the only way to do that is to put a bullet in their head, So unlesss you plan to do that to every person that disagrees with you, you ought to gt used to the idea that not everyone will hold to another person's rational so willingly.

ONCE MORE SO THERE ARE NO MORE MISUNDERSTANDINGS

My posts were simply my observations over the various REASONS people dont like the schedule, I am only trying to show those in SUPPORT of it that the people that DISAGREE with them dont do it out of jelousy or anger but more out of simple FRUSTRATION that things have turned out the way they have.

PLEASE THINK OF MY POSTS AS A COMPILATION OF DIFFRENT OPINIONS WRITTEN BY A 3RD PARTY OBSERVER

[leobaloy]

Meek and Neon's schedule is the best thing so far.
If you don't like it, make suggestions on it to make it better.

Everyone who says, whoever gets there first should get it, they're just greedy.

This schedule shows we're civilized and believe it or not, some of us are actually trying to prevent meaningless fights. OMG NO WAI, RLLY?? LIAKE WOW

So removing the schedule would make who happy? Eventually everyone would complain about ksing.
Let's use this as an example: "x" player's party and friends are all killing helga and have it down to 1/4 hp, while "y" player's friends come, show up and ks helga, while "x" players party did all the work, it was in vain because "y" player's party came and ksed helga and they got the drops.

Btw, that's how helga is "ks-able". In case you guys didn't know, ksing is attacking a mob that has been previously attacked by another player or party. So in my example "y" player's party ksed helga from "x" player's party, even if "y" player's party did charm, they still ksed, and that will just lead to pointless wars and eventually getting other players banned.

I seriously don't have an idea why some of you don't like the schedule.

Its unfair to other guilds who want to try it? Any guild can request a day, thus the reason why there are "free day" slots on the schedule, all the have to do is tell Meek, and provide the info he may ask, like hp/def/m.def of clerics and fighters.

And the schedule isn't saying people own helga, its just nice to be able to raid without having to worry about some idiot walking in and training everyone and wasting everyone's effort.

And please try to keep this thread flame free.

[Spankle]

This annoys me becaus you have neglected to notice the REASON for my post, that comment is a fact, there are many people who think just like that, theres no need to get overly angry about it ,as its a person's opinion, and you cant stop people from thinking or disagreeing with you or other people.

As i stated REPEATEDLY, I neither blame nor am i angry at the people making the schedule, as the situation is not thier fault.

However a lot of people view the way the schedule has ben set up and the rules as to who can and can't raid as unfair and demanding ESPECIALLY because it does not come from an official source but rather from another player.

LET ME SAY IT AGAIN, thse are merely opinions that i have seen over and over placed in my own words, as have no anger towards those it concerns i can speak without judging them, that i speak of others judging or criticizing is not the same as me doing it.

I have given my viws about this already, No i dont like the schdule at all, HOWEVER i do understand the nessecity for it,

IT IS THE NESSECITY of such a schedule that I am angry at, not those whose intention was to try and resolv ethings fairly, That others dont see it that way is neither here nor there, again i was merely stated my opinion of several opinions.

The only way to stop a person from disagreing with you is to stop them from thinking, and the only way to do that is to put a bullet in their head, So unlesss you plan to do that to every person that disagrees with you, you ought to gt used to the idea that not everyone will hold to another person's rational so willingly.

ONCE MORE SO THERE ARE NO MORE MISUNDERSTANDINGS

My posts were simply my observations over the various REASONS people dont like the schedule, I am only trying to show those in SUPPORT of it that the people that DISAGREE with them dont do it out of jelousy or anger but more out of simple FRUSTRATION that things have turned out the way they have.

PLEASE THINK OF MY POSTS AS A COMPILATION OF DIFFRENT OPINIONS WRITTEN BY A 3RD PARTY OBSERVER

God...my post was not directed at you, it was my response to the "different opinions" you wrote about, i know you are writing as an observer. Do YOU understand? >.>

EDIT~ I'm bored so ima respond to ur post too :]

that comment is a fact, there are many people who think just like that, theres no need to get overly angry about it ,as its a person's opinion, and you cant stop people from thinking or disagreeing with you or other people.

If it annoys me that people can't see that they have an opportunity to do helga raids and instead just complain about not having a spot, then it annoys me. Like you said, you "cant stop [me] from thinking or disagreeing with you or other people." I can say "am opposed to" or something if you'd like?

My posts were simply my observations over the various REASONS people dont like the schedule, I am only trying to show those in SUPPORT of it that the people that DISAGREE with them dont do it out of jelousy or anger but more out of simple FRUSTRATION that things have turned out the way they have.
None of your posts reference to the free day system, which is how we are dealing with the problem they complain about.

IT IS THE NESSECITY of such a schedule that I am angry at, not those whose intention was to try and resolv ethings fairly, That others dont see it that way is neither here nor there, again i was merely stated my opinion of several opinions.

I agree, I think outspark has put us in a difficult situation unnecessarily.

[WinterClown]

Awesome posts Stealthy and Kenny. x)
well winter, i dont think its perfectly fair, but i do think its better than how it would be if we didnt have it. if it wasnt there, every day all the big guilds that make up the main portion of the schedule would go to the tomb and fight and war over him. then if a small guild or group ever tried to kill him chances are they would be warred and chased off by the others.
As ken said, there's a similar situation as it is now. If a "small" guild would kill helga (not ks) before a "big" guild got there, chances are equally big that the big guild would war/chase off the small one as they killed helga on the big guilds "day".
not to say those guilds are bad, in fact i have a friend or two in almost all of them and hear good things about the guilds, but everyone wants drops and if there was no order then fighting would almost certainly be the outcome. and finally, yes the other servers dont have a schedule, but the OS staff has had to step in and monitor helga cause of all the fights and violations of ToS that have occured there. they also issued a warning to us that happend to come on the day after our only huge mess up with the schedule. and since we have fixed the schedule to my knowledge we have not had another warning from them.

and i think it was myri that was talking about having only 1 slot to the other's 4-5. i know that if you kill him the first time you will be added to more. collision started out with one shot and earned another once they killed him, and i believe milky was the same although not entirely sure on that one.

I hope im not sounding accusing or anything, im trying to stay as unbiased as possible here. im trying only to discuss the situation as asked by winter and keep my own feelings out of it. if you dont think i did that let me know and ill delete this.Thanks for the post :)

Meek and Neon's schedule is the best thing so far.
If you don't like it, make suggestions on it to make it better.
We're trying to take it even further ;) And some people don't agree with u that the schedule is the "best thing so far".

Everyone who says, whoever gets there first should get it, they're just greedy.I think everyone wants helgait items? It's understandable that "small" guilds complain, since they got 0 items, while the guilds on the schedule got x or even xx items. From their point of view, the "big" guilds are the ones that are greedy.

This schedule shows we're civilized and believe it or not, some of us are actually trying to prevent meaningless fights. OMG NO WAI, RLLY?? LIAKE WOW
Yes, indeed, that is why i made this thread.

So removing the schedule would make who happy?
Me for example :)
Eventually everyone would complain about ksing.
Let's use this as an example: "x" player's party and friends are all killing helga and have it down to 1/4 hp, while "y" player's friends come, show up and ks helga, while "x" players party did all the work, it was in vain because "y" player's party came and ksed helga and they got the drops.

Btw, that's how helga is "ks-able". In case you guys didn't know, ksing is attacking a mob that has been previously attacked by another player or party. So in my example "y" player's party ksed helga from "x" player's party, even if "y" player's party did charm, they still ksed, and that will just lead to pointless wars and eventually getting other players banned.
As i see it, everyone are "x" players. Think of it like this. Back in the days, when we had server raids, what would u say if one party said that they hit Helga first, and therefor they should get ALL the drops. I don't think that would be fair.

Also, I think it's wierd if the purpose of Helga is party/guild raids. I'm quite sure it's intended for server raids, or at least for bigger groups of players, maybe 50+.

I seriously don't have an idea why some of you don't like the schedule.
That's what we're trying to discuss in this thread. x)
Its unfair to other guilds who want to try it? Any guild can request a day, thus the reason why there are "free day" slots on the schedule, all the have to do is tell Meek, and provide the info he may ask, like hp/def/m.def of clerics and fighters.

And the schedule isn't saying people own helga, its just nice to be able to raid without having to worry about some idiot walking in and training everyone and wasting everyone's effort.
Then report that "idiot". Some are experiencing that the big guilds do own helga as it is now, whether you disagree or not.

And please try to keep this thread flame free.
Yep. :)

And Meek, i made this thread maybe not to "complain about the fairness of this schedule", but to discuss the fairness of this schedule. The main purpose isn't to come with ideas, if though those are welcomed. :)

EDIT: Yay cap raise soon 8D!

[KenshinGi]

On thing has crossed my mind recently, besids PvP will Hellgaits really be all that important once the new cap hits will they really be in such high demand anymore?
Remember when EVERYONE wanted BK's? Hellgaits look shiny and new and strong but so did BK's back before the cap raise, when they were first relased BK's went for 15g un-ehnanced etc, I think they same will happen to Hellgaits, SInce BKR weps +9 are'nt really that much less potent than Hellgaits, I think in total 1k less damage and several hundred less aim? Correct me if I'm wrong but Hllgaits +9 dont add more than 300 points or so. Ohh and one other thing aren't there lv 100 Blues? :O Wont those be better?

[FuSiOnStealth]

On thing has crossed my mind recently, besids PvP will Hellgaits really be all that important once the new cap hits will they really be in such high demand anymore?
Remember when EVERYONE wanted BK's? Hellgaits look shiny and new and strong but so did BK's back before the cap raise, when they were first relased BK's went for 15g un-ehnanced etc, I think they same will happen to Hellgaits, SInce BKR weps +9 are'nt really that much less potent than Hellgaits, I think in total 1k less damage and several hundred less aim? Correct me if I'm wrong but Hllgaits +9 dont add more than 300 points or so. Ohh and one other thing aren't there lv 100 Blues? :O Wont those be better?

I believe the current affect of enhancement on a Helgait weapon is considered bugged and will get fixed. I can't point you to a thread where this was discussed as I heard it in in-game conversations ^^

As for the demand of Helgait weapons, I think there are many folks who just want the best of the best (when it comes to equipment) and even if the difference is trivial, there will still be a high demand for them.

[KenshinGi]

I believe the current affect of enhancement on a Helgait weapon is considered bugged and will get fixed. I can't point you to a thread where this was discussed as I heard it in in-game conversations ^^

As for the demand of Helgait weapons, I think there are many folks who just want the best of the best (when it comes to equipment) and even if the difference is trivial, there will still be a high demand for them.

True though i have heard that as the levle and base damage of a wep increases the % of the +9 addition decrases, though dont quote me on it

[mredlodge]

On thing has crossed my mind recently, besids PvP will Hellgaits really be all that important once the new cap hits will they really be in such high demand anymore?
Remember when EVERYONE wanted BK's? Hellgaits look shiny and new and strong but so did BK's back before the cap raise, when they were first relased BK's went for 15g un-ehnanced etc, I think they same will happen to Hellgaits, SInce BKR weps +9 are'nt really that much less potent than Hellgaits, I think in total 1k less damage and several hundred less aim? Correct me if I'm wrong but Hllgaits +9 dont add more than 300 points or so. Ohh and one other thing aren't there lv 100 Blues? :O Wont those be better?

When I think of using a Hellgait weapon, PvP is pretty far from my mind. Eventhough I don't believe Helga weapons will have the 1-hit KO power so many ppl think they will have, I do believe fighting someone using a Hellgait will be pointless. I'm a grinder first. I build my characters for grinding then see how they do in pvp. I think these weapons will be awesome for killing mobs fast especially using mage/archer AoE skills.

I never remember BK weapons selling for 15g before cap raise. As I recall it, when they started to drop, they were falling like rain. The first few were found and put in a vendor by one of the recently self proclaimed "market regulators" for a few gold but they never sold for that much. BK's kept falling with so much frequency, I ended up having to NPC a whole page of my storage full of BK weapons within a week or two after cap-raise. Same with the 95 BK weapons, I used to pick one up on every 3 or 4 JT/Red Nix repeats.

normal price for 85 BK back then was 100s --any class
normal price for 95 BK back then was under 1g if you wanted to sell it within a day.

[TheRealSasukeUchiha]

the free days that are during the week might as well not even be there with the ridiculous times as which they take place. i know ppl go by OS time but i know not everyone is on it, anyone in Eastern time zone feel this way..seeing that OS time is indeed 3 hours behind us. =/

and i am not trying to talk bad about the schedule in anyway, as i see it all ties together so one change in time messed up the entire schedule.

[Myrielle]

i know ppl go by OS time but i know not everyone is on it, anyone in Eastern time zone feel this way..seeing that OS time is indeed 3 hours behind us. =/


OS time is 9 hours behind me >>'' lol.
europe ftw lmfao


<3

[TheRealSasukeUchiha]

lawl thats 3x worse than me Dx"

[HeroicAce]

there will be free days on the weekend later. as stated it will move forward dropping one usual guild for a free day once a week. should hit the weekend late may i think.

[TheRealSasukeUchiha]

yea i know that ;o

[Miazma]

Inner_Circle currently has a Sunday, whoopie doo its the weekend. :D errrrmm except if you happen to be in Australia, Indonesia etc where it is actually Monday. And the time we usually have to kill Helga falls into the *working hours* of Monday.

I am sure it is the same for all the guilds on the schedule the time is rarely ever perfect for everybody. However to try and keep it fair and to include as many guilds as possible we all have a certain time frame to work in.

[bithun86]

Unfortunately we have yet to have an Outspark Staff to come over and take a leadership position on this schedule. CL's do not get any special privileges in-game, infact they have just as much power as you and I, their responsiblity is monitoring the forums. If GL's were still around, then maybe your suggestion would work out great, but I am sure that GMs and CSRs are too busy with their jobs to take an active role in this. If you feel that me being a random player and deciding all this is fair, then who do you feel could make decisions and be fair to everyone?

Well first and foremost thing is we are not discussing here as to who should take on the leadership of preparing the schedule and stuff for taking on ToH, on contrary most of us are against the idea of scheduled ToH raid itself. No one has any grudges against you meek. But the idea of having the schedule wherein hardly 5 or 6 guilds take up the whole month's ToH schedule hardly leaving 4 to 5 days for others doesn't seem to be fair enough either. One of the reason why the schedule was started was to give everyone an equal opportunity to get the helga drop and kill. Instead i find the whole schedule biased, because don't forget the fact that there are nearly 2000 guilds in the game. The 5 to 6 guilds in the list have made nearly X or XX drops while the remaining server just looks on.



The problem is that, even without this schedule, guilds would still be warring other guilds for going into ToH when they are raiding. Don't believe me? Ask the guilds before this schedule was made and how many times they got warred for going into ToH. That is why it is important that any guild/group who wants to raid actually takes the time to be part of the schedule so they do not get warred. So with that said, I ask everyone this. Would you:

a) Get warred for interrupting another guilds raid.
or
b) Sign up for the schedule, and avoid the wars.


We have already stated that if for some reason, the guild that is appointed a day does not get their Helga kill due to reason's such as kill-steal or server crashes, we would appoint them a new day to compensate. And I've seen over and over of people stating that it is unfair that we do not give days to every guild wanting to raid.

Meek since you have volunteered to prepare the schedule, your answers which leaves the reader with just 2 options i.e.

a) Get warred for interrupting another guilds raid.
or
b) Sign up for the schedule, and avoid the wars.

Simply seems to be undiplomatic, rude and disrespectful.
I agree that the chances of getting warred was relevant even before the schedule was prepared. My question is wasn't one of the reasons why the so called schedule was forged, was to avoid the wars. Now, rather than finding out the way to avoid it. You are simply sticking to it with your above mentioned options.
This clearly states that you abide by the fact that if a small guild, not in the schedule list(i won't call the guild small if with only 7-9 members they were able to defeat helga) kills helga before the schedule prepared by you. The chances of them getting warred is more cognate and genuine.
This furthermore violates at least 4 ToS

1>No person or guild can claim any area/zone/specific location as their own. If a player(s) can get there, then they have a right to be there.

2> Guild wars are never to be used as a means of coercion. What this means is NEVER threaten to guild war a player if they refuse to do something you want. This is a form of harassment and doing so will risk action against the individual, the guild admins, and in severe cases deletion of the guild

3> Guild wars are never to be used as a means of revenge. It doesn’t matter how much a player may have offended you, or how much you may not like them. This is one reason why we have a block feature.

4> Guild wars are never to be used to kick a player out of an area, or to ruin a players good time.

Secondly the only circumstances that would give rise to a guild war would be when the Helga is a guild affair. If a group of players who know each other closely, everyone being from different guild decide to kill the helga. I don't think there would be any chance of a guild war arising there.

Thirdly, How will you justify the fact that only a handful of guilds are legally allowed to kill Helga and hoard the drops. Just to end up selling them at astronomical price to the others.

I don't hold any grudge against any player, guild, etc. and neither do i want others to have the same for me.
I absolutely praise meek for the initiative he has taken.
But still in my personal opinion i find the whole system kind of inappropriate and hence i decided to contact the CSRs for the same. Hopefully to find out a solution to it.

[Rzpect]

Well first and foremost thing is we are not discussing here as to who should take on the leadership of preparing the schedule and stuff for taking on ToH, on contrary most of us are against the idea of scheduled ToH raid itself. No one has any grudges against you meek. But the idea of having the schedule wherein hardly 5 or 6 guilds take up the whole month's ToH schedule hardly leaving 4 to 5 days for others doesn't seem to be fair enough either. One of the reason why the schedule was started was to give everyone an equal opportunity to get the helga drop and kill. Instead i find the whole schedule biased, because don't forget the fact that there are nearly 2000 guilds in the game. The 5 to 6 guilds in the list have made nearly X or XX drops while the remaining server just looks on.


Meek since you have volunteered to prepare the schedule, your answers which leaves the reader with just 2 options i.e.

a) Get warred for interrupting another guilds raid.
or
b) Sign up for the schedule, and avoid the wars.

Simply seems to be undiplomatic, rude and disrespectful.
I agree that the chances of getting warred was relevant even before the schedule was prepared. My question is wasn't one of the reasons why the so called schedule was forged, was to avoid the wars. Now, rather than finding out the way to avoid it. You are simply sticking to it with your above mentioned options.
This clearly states that you abide by the fact that if a small guild, not in the schedule list(i won't call the guild small if with only 7-9 members they were able to defeat helga) kills helga before the schedule prepared by you. The chances of them getting warred is more cognate and genuine.
This furthermore violates at least 4 ToS

1>No person or guild can claim any area/zone/specific location as their own. If a player(s) can get there, then they have a right to be there.

2> Guild wars are never to be used as a means of coercion. What this means is NEVER threaten to guild war a player if they refuse to do something you want. This is a form of harassment and doing so will risk action against the individual, the guild admins, and in severe cases deletion of the guild

3> Guild wars are never to be used as a means of revenge. It doesn’t matter how much a player may have offended you, or how much you may not like them. This is one reason why we have a block feature.

4> Guild wars are never to be used to kick a player out of an area, or to ruin a players good time.

Secondly the only circumstances that would give rise to a guild war would be when the Helga is a guild affair. If a group of players who know each other closely, everyone being from different guild decide to kill the helga. I don't think there would be any chance of a guild war arising there.

Thirdly, How will you justify the fact that only a handful of guilds are legally allowed to kill Helga and hoard the drops. Just to end up selling them at astronomical price to the others.

I don't hold any grudge against any player, guild, etc. and neither do i want others to have the same for me.
I absolutely praise meek for the initiative he has taken.
But still in my personal opinion i find the whole system kind of inappropriate and hence i decided to contact the CSRs for the same. Hopefully to find out a solution to it.

Unfortunately, The GMs careless about what we do with Helga as long as there are no wars, and as long as the people of Teva are amicable to each others, 70%+ of tevians agree to this schedule, It will be feasible that this will stay as it is...until people cap 105 when they can neither duo or solo[with heavy SC],of course, for the greed and of course to become opulent, they will reiterate Helga days and then we will have to worry about a war, this will also change the economy a HUGE step indeed, so we will have to scrutinize closely of what we are doing now and to not affect the game in the future, gotta do this meticulously.

[Blaxcalibur]

*sigh* these type thread gonna become the new "I Am Not Charmed" threads xD

heres some things to consider (ppl who oppose the schedule)

1. Say you and your pt are killin ehh Zombie King. You get him to 1/6th hp. Then all of a sudden, a fighter not in your pt creeps up just as Zombie King is about to die n kills him. Take that feeling n multiply it by 50. Thats wat it would be like if guild decided to raid n gets ks'd for helga.

2. No, they dont own the map...but im sure you've noticed that Helgas Tomb isnt considered just "a map". Since its not a normal map, unofficial rules n guidlines have been set to avoid drama. The unofficial rules are the same as if pt1 is at a certain area n pt2 comes along, pt2 either finds a diff spot or waits till pt1 is done. There are currently no quest that involve Helgas Tomb n your better off grindin on a diff map for exp. If you want to kill kallaps/gaurdians for any sorta reason, just wait....not a big a deal.

3. If your guild isnt capable of killing Helga on its own, why worry about the schedule? Tell me a GOOD reason to go to Helgas Tomb other than to actually kill Helga. Only thing i can think of is a practice raid, but if you guild isnt strong enuff, that wouldnt be a reason. It only takes a drop of a pencil for a raid to go downhill, especially if the disturbance was intended (e.g. training). Its only natural that the guild raiding would want the map closed off to other ppl.

4. Can you think of a better way to stop 10+ guilds who can/think they can/know they cant but wanna try anyway, to share the most sought after (i think?) boss in the game? Helga weaps are no joke and the only way to make sure that during a Helga raid your guild gets the weaps, is to have the only guild there yours. That being said, Server raids are limited/goin extinct. Were at the point where if your guild can kill helga, then go for it. If not you'll just have to wait or hope you get invited.

5. While Helga is the new "It" thing in fiesta (a lil while ago purples was the lil wayne of fiesta) its absolutely UNNECESSARY. You have to spend more to prepare for it (dunno about DDs but tanks definitely) than anything else in the game for a weap u cant use yet. Youve prolly also noticed that drama in this game comes from the most unnecessary things (*cough* pvp *cough*). Theres always coolhead ppl and ppl who want start anything w/ anybody for any reason. The coolhead ones try to work out agreements (hint), while the others try get a "my way or no way" way of things going. While theres nothin much we can do about pvp matters, somethin can be done about drama between Helga raiders from diff guilds. That somethin would be.......tada *points at Helga Raid Schedule*

was this post too long? o.o ...if i failed at makin since, sowwy Dx its 4 am here


EDIT: too many big words Rz D:<<<< *goes to sleep*

[WinterClown]

On thing has crossed my mind recently, besids PvP will Hellgaits really be all that important once the new cap hits will they really be in such high demand anymore?
Remember when EVERYONE wanted BK's? Hellgaits look shiny and new and strong but so did BK's back before the cap raise, when they were first relased BK's went for 15g un-ehnanced etc, I think they same will happen to Hellgaits, SInce BKR weps +9 are'nt really that much less potent than Hellgaits, I think in total 1k less damage and several hundred less aim? Correct me if I'm wrong but Hllgaits +9 dont add more than 300 points or so. Ohh and one other thing aren't there lv 100 Blues? :O Wont those be better?
One difference though, BK's drop randomly for any player from any highlvl monster. To get a helgait weapon you need SC and, as it is now, you need to belong to a big guild/group.
the free days that are during the week might as well not even be there with the ridiculous times as which they take place. i know ppl go by OS time but i know not everyone is on it, anyone in Eastern time zone feel this way..seeing that OS time is indeed 3 hours behind us. =/

and i am not trying to talk bad about the schedule in anyway, as i see it all ties together so one change in time messed up the entire schedule.
I agree with that :) Better use them than let them be there "symbolically".
Well first and foremost thing is we are not discussing here as to who should take on the leadership of preparing the schedule and stuff for taking on ToH, on contrary most of us are against the idea of scheduled ToH raid itself. No one has any grudges against you meek. But the idea of having the schedule wherein hardly 5 or 6 guilds take up the whole month's ToH schedule hardly leaving 4 to 5 days for others doesn't seem to be fair enough either. One of the reason why the schedule was started was to give everyone an equal opportunity to get the helga drop and kill. Instead i find the whole schedule biased, because don't forget the fact that there are nearly 2000 guilds in the game. The 5 to 6 guilds in the list have made nearly X or XX drops while the remaining server just looks on.





Meek since you have volunteered to prepare the schedule, your answers which leaves the reader with just 2 options i.e.

a) Get warred for interrupting another guilds raid.
or
b) Sign up for the schedule, and avoid the wars.

Simply seems to be undiplomatic, rude and disrespectful.
I agree that the chances of getting warred was relevant even before the schedule was prepared. My question is wasn't one of the reasons why the so called schedule was forged, was to avoid the wars. Now, rather than finding out the way to avoid it. You are simply sticking to it with your above mentioned options.
This clearly states that you abide by the fact that if a small guild, not in the schedule list(i won't call the guild small if with only 7-9 members they were able to defeat helga) kills helga before the schedule prepared by you. The chances of them getting warred is more cognate and genuine.
This furthermore violates at least 4 ToS

1>No person or guild can claim any area/zone/specific location as their own. If a player(s) can get there, then they have a right to be there.

2> Guild wars are never to be used as a means of coercion. What this means is NEVER threaten to guild war a player if they refuse to do something you want. This is a form of harassment and doing so will risk action against the individual, the guild admins, and in severe cases deletion of the guild

3> Guild wars are never to be used as a means of revenge. It doesn’t matter how much a player may have offended you, or how much you may not like them. This is one reason why we have a block feature.

4> Guild wars are never to be used to kick a player out of an area, or to ruin a players good time.

Secondly the only circumstances that would give rise to a guild war would be when the Helga is a guild affair. If a group of players who know each other closely, everyone being from different guild decide to kill the helga. I don't think there would be any chance of a guild war arising there.

Thirdly, How will you justify the fact that only a handful of guilds are legally allowed to kill Helga and hoard the drops. Just to end up selling them at astronomical price to the others.

I don't hold any grudge against any player, guild, etc. and neither do i want others to have the same for me.
I absolutely praise meek for the initiative he has taken.
But still in my personal opinion i find the whole system kind of inappropriate and hence i decided to contact the CSRs for the same. Hopefully to find out a solution to it.
Nice post :O
*sigh* these type thread gonna become the new "I Am Not Charmed" threads xD

heres some things to consider (ppl who oppose the schedule)

1. Say you and your pt are killin ehh Zombie King. You get him to 1/6th hp. Then all of a sudden, a fighter not in your pt creeps up just as Zombie King is about to die n kills him. Take that feeling n multiply it by 50. Thats wat it would be like if guild decided to raid n gets ks'd for helga.
Yes, therefor i don't think small groups should be able to kill helga. I think drops should be based on luck, nothing else.
2. No, they dont own the map...but im sure you've noticed that Helgas Tomb isnt considered just "a map". Since its not a normal map, unofficial rules n guidlines have been set to avoid drama. The unofficial rules are the same as if pt1 is at a certain area n pt2 comes along, pt2 either finds a diff spot or waits till pt1 is done. There are currently no quest that involve Helgas Tomb n your better off grindin on a diff map for exp. If you want to kill kallaps/gaurdians for any sorta reason, just wait....not a big a deal.
As above.
3. If your guild isnt capable of killing Helga on its own, why worry about the schedule? Tell me a GOOD reason to go to Helgas Tomb other than to actually kill Helga. Only thing i can think of is a practice raid, but if you guild isnt strong enuff, that wouldnt be a reason. It only takes a drop of a pencil for a raid to go downhill, especially if the disturbance was intended (e.g. training). Its only natural that the guild raiding would want the map closed off to other ppl.
Because people think that it is unfair. People tend to dislike unfairness.
4. Can you think of a better way to stop 10+ guilds who can/think they can/know they cant but wanna try anyway, to share the most sought after (i think?) boss in the game? Helga weaps are no joke and the only way to make sure that during a Helga raid your guild gets the weaps, is to have the only guild there yours. That being said, Server raids are limited/goin extinct. Were at the point where if your guild can kill helga, then go for it. If not you'll just have to wait or hope you get invited.
That's sad :( i loved server raids. *copy/paste* I think drops should be based on luck, nothing else.
5. While Helga is the new "It" thing in fiesta (a lil while ago purples was the lil wayne of fiesta) its absolutely UNNECESSARY. You have to spend more to prepare for it (dunno about DDs but tanks definitely) than anything else in the game for a weap u cant use yet. Youve prolly also noticed that drama in this game comes from the most unnecessary things (*cough* pvp *cough*). Theres always coolhead ppl and ppl who want start anything w/ anybody for any reason. The coolhead ones try to work out agreements (hint), while the others try get a "my way or no way" way of things going. While theres nothin much we can do about pvp matters, somethin can be done about drama between Helga raiders from diff guilds. That somethin would be.......tada *points at Helga Raid Schedule*
Yeah well, nice try. But i think it's unfair :)

was this post too long? o.o ...if i failed at makin since, sowwy Dx its 4 am here


EDIT: too many big words Rz D:<<<< *goes to sleep*

[defiant_saim]

It's true that the guilds in the schedule have a higher chance at getting Helga drops, but the question is whether this is unfair.

The idea behind the schedule is that all parties on the server that can actually kill Helga cooperate and hence mutually raise their chance at getting Helga drops. Evidently, the mere fact that different parties cooperate isn't unfair.

Admittance to this cooperation is entirely fair: you have to prove you can actually kill Helga in a reasonable time. Every guild on the list had to do this, so no fair advantages were given. It required a lot of work, a lot of organizing and real life money for cash shop items for all of them and it certainly wasn't just "given" to them. Everybody has a fair chance in trying to get into the cooperation, but it requires some effort from all. Additionally, it's not true that bigger guilds would have an advantage over smaller parties, as smaller parties could easily either merge or cooperate if they can't do it on their own. The latter would be required even if there was no schedule anyway.

Nobody is forced to join this cooperation. This isn't even possible as this would be a violation to the TOS. Chance is high people who would go and (try to) kill Helga on their own will be disliked very quickly by a lot of people on the server, but there's nothing unfair about that, it's just a result of your choice of actions.

So what precisely do you see as unfair about the schedule?

[Myrielle]

It's true that the guilds in the schedule have a higher chance at getting Helga drops, but the question is whether this is unfair.

The idea behind the schedule is that all parties on the server that can actually kill Helga cooperate and hence mutually raise their chance at getting Helga drops. Evidently, the mere fact that different parties cooperate isn't unfair.

Admittance to this cooperation is entirely fair: you have to prove you can actually kill Helga in a reasonable time. Every guild on the list had to do this, so no fair advantages were given. It required a lot of work, a lot of organizing and real life money for cash shop items for all of them and it certainly wasn't just "given" to them. Everybody has a fair chance in trying to get into the cooperation, but it requires some effort from all. Additionally, it's not true that bigger guilds would have an advantage over smaller parties, as smaller parties could easily either merge or cooperate if they can't do it on their own. The latter would be required even if there was no schedule anyway.

Nobody is forced to join this cooperation. This isn't even possible as this would be a violation to the TOS. Chance is high people who would go and (try to) kill Helga on their own will be disliked very quickly by a lot of people on the server, but there's nothing unfair about that, it's just a result of your choice of actions.

So what precisely do you see as unfair about the schedule?


I think most people - me included- find it frustrating that you kinda have to ask for "permission" to get a shot on helga.
moreover, it's a little weird...it's been said that it's an "agreement" between those guilds..so they wont ks each other...
They say guilds that aren't on the list may freely participate aswell..
though..
you are not allowed to pop in and ks..well thats understandable..
but how are you supposed to "join freely" without ksing if there are 7 guilds spread on 7 days?

and like some people already said..
even on the "free days" it's hard to get people together since we all live in different countries/timezones.
And this is not a question about "manpower", you surely can have the manpower, but if u have jobs/school you can't stay up until 4am just to get your one and only chance to kill helga.

What i mean is..it's not easy to organize a whole group of people if you have only 1 "free day"..
and it's even harder if you have to compy with the schedule..not everyone is free on the days others set up.
(well some surely are but thats another story Q_Q)

[Marck]

I think most people - me included- find it frustrating that you kinda have to ask for "permission" to get a shot on helga.
moreover, it's a little weird...it's been said that it's an "agreement" between those guilds..so they wont ks each other...
They say guilds that aren't on the list may freely participate aswell..
though..
you are not allowed to pop in and ks..well thats understandable..
but how are you supposed to "join freely" without ksing if there are 7 guilds spread on 7 days?

and like some people already said..
even on the "free days" it's hard to get people together since we all live in different countries/timezones.
And this is not a question about "manpower", you surely can have the manpower, but if u have jobs/school you can't stay up until 4am just to get your one and only chance to kill helga.

What i mean is..it's not easy to organize a whole group of people if you have only 1 "free day"..
and it's even harder if you have to compy with the schedule..not everyone is free on the days others set up.
(well some surely are but thats another story Q_Q)

i'm eu too... i waked up at 4-5am when was necessary! if your guild really want get a spot guildies could just sacrifice for a day on be online in kinda bad time... but when u prove to kill helga your guild get spot in schedule and set up in the way more fairness on respawn time for your guild!
u can ask for spot in schedule for your guild and ask also for a good time u would be ok... meek will try to get u a day that the spawn time is right for your time... like happened for hvg... we are only eu guild raiding!

[neonlovesyou]

Guys dont fight ._. Like I've said, you can't always satisfy 100% of the population, everybody has different opinions, its nearly impossible they'll all agree on the same thing. If the majority agrees on the idea, then we'll be doing a good job.


About the schedule being unfair. Don't blame the schedule, blame the 24 hour respawn time.

About the guilds that dont have the man power to kill helga: Look at it this way, on basketball games if your a bench warmer and want to get a spot in the starting line up, you have to work hard and prove yourself, so you can get it. It's the same thing here I am(was) in a guild who the guild alone is near impossible to kill helga(Loves all SG :3) But yea. Every guild should get a chance to kill it, if they can they can get a spot for other weeks. Meek is doing a wonderful job to accomodate you all. Don't bash him saying the schedule is bad, at least give him props for actually taking some of his time to help us all, ^^ that's what counts ya know.

Btw VK/SG is a nice idea o: 8cm FTW 8D


Well love you all guys :3 I'll be on forums from time to time until I fix my *cough*acc problems :3

Until then I think I may start a cleric O.O LMAO

Mage-74 banned
Archer-72 banned
Fighter 84-banned
Cleric? D: lol

<333

[jliciousness]

*sigh* im tellin you they should make more free days and lessen the regular guild's raids/month so at least it would seem fair...

[Myrielle]

i'm eu too... i waked up at 4-5am when was necessary! if your guild really want get a spot guildies could just sacrifice for a day on be online in kinda bad time... but when u prove to kill helga your guild get spot in schedule and set up in the way more fairness on respawn time for your guild!
u can ask for spot in schedule for your guild and ask also for a good time u would be ok... meek will try to get u a day that the spawn time is right for your time... like happened for hvg... we are only eu guild raiding!

I'm sorry but im tired of hearing this Dx i just gave an ansewr to someones question about what is not fair
i wont answr to this im sorry.

[Myrielle]

*sigh* im tellin you they should make more free days and lessen the regular guild's raids/month so at least it would seem fair...

I think you and me are not the only ones thinking like this.
more free days would give other guilds flexibility to organize a raid



and sorry i forgot to multipost lol Dx

[Rzpect]

*sigh* these type thread gonna become the new "I Am Not Charmed" threads xD

heres some things to consider (ppl who oppose the schedule)

1. Say you and your pt are killin ehh Zombie King. You get him to 1/6th hp. Then all of a sudden, a fighter not in your pt creeps up just as Zombie King is about to die n kills him. Take that feeling n multiply it by 50. Thats wat it would be like if guild decided to raid n gets ks'd for helga.

2. No, they dont own the map...but im sure you've noticed that Helgas Tomb isnt considered just "a map". Since its not a normal map, unofficial rules n guidlines have been set to avoid drama. The unofficial rules are the same as if pt1 is at a certain area n pt2 comes along, pt2 either finds a diff spot or waits till pt1 is done. There are currently no quest that involve Helgas Tomb n your better off grindin on a diff map for exp. If you want to kill kallaps/gaurdians for any sorta reason, just wait....not a big a deal.

3. If your guild isnt capable of killing Helga on its own, why worry about the schedule? Tell me a GOOD reason to go to Helgas Tomb other than to actually kill Helga. Only thing i can think of is a practice raid, but if you guild isnt strong enuff, that wouldnt be a reason. It only takes a drop of a pencil for a raid to go downhill, especially if the disturbance was intended (e.g. training). Its only natural that the guild raiding would want the map closed off to other ppl.

4. Can you think of a better way to stop 10+ guilds who can/think they can/know they cant but wanna try anyway, to share the most sought after (i think?) boss in the game? Helga weaps are no joke and the only way to make sure that during a Helga raid your guild gets the weaps, is to have the only guild there yours. That being said, Server raids are limited/goin extinct. Were at the point where if your guild can kill helga, then go for it. If not you'll just have to wait or hope you get invited.

5. While Helga is the new "It" thing in fiesta (a lil while ago purples was the lil wayne of fiesta) its absolutely UNNECESSARY. You have to spend more to prepare for it (dunno about DDs but tanks definitely) than anything else in the game for a weap u cant use yet. Youve prolly also noticed that drama in this game comes from the most unnecessary things (*cough* pvp *cough*). Theres always coolhead ppl and ppl who want start anything w/ anybody for any reason. The coolhead ones try to work out agreements (hint), while the others try get a "my way or no way" way of things going. While theres nothin much we can do about pvp matters, somethin can be done about drama between Helga raiders from diff guilds. That somethin would be.......tada *points at Helga Raid Schedule*

was this post too long? o.o ...if i failed at makin since, sowwy Dx its 4 am here


EDIT: too many big words Rz D:<<<< *goes to sleep*

Guys dont fight ._. Like I've said, you can't always satisfy 100% of the population, everybody has different opinions, its nearly impossible they'll all agree on the same thing. If the majority agrees on the idea, then we'll be doing a good job.


About the schedule being unfair. Don't blame the schedule, blame the 24 hour respawn time.

About the guilds that dont have the man power to kill helga: Look at it this way, on basketball games if your a bench warmer and want to get a spot in the starting line up, you have to work hard and prove yourself, so you can get it. It's the same thing here I am(was) in a guild who the guild alone is near impossible to kill helga(Loves all SG :3) But yea. Every guild should get a chance to kill it, if they can they can get a spot for other weeks. Meek is doing a wonderful job to accomodate you all. Don't bash him saying the schedule is bad, at least give him props for actually taking some of his time to help us all, ^^ that's what counts ya know.

Btw VK/SG is a nice idea o: 8cm FTW 8D


Well love you all guys :3 I'll be on forums from time to time until I fix my *cough*acc problems :3

Until then I think I may start a cleric O.O LMAO

Mage-74 banned
Archer-72 banned
Fighter 84-banned
Cleric? D: lol

<333

(: those are small words for me
D:< *** Neon u got banned

[King_Obito]

Well first and foremost thing is we are not discussing here as to who should take on the leadership of preparing the schedule and stuff for taking on ToH, on contrary most of us are against the idea of scheduled ToH raid itself. No one has any grudges against you meek. But the idea of having the schedule wherein hardly 5 or 6 guilds take up the whole month's ToH schedule hardly leaving 4 to 5 days for others doesn't seem to be fair enough either. One of the reason why the schedule was started was to give everyone an equal opportunity to get the helga drop and kill. Instead i find the whole schedule biased, because don't forget the fact that there are nearly 2000 guilds in the game. The 5 to 6 guilds in the list have made nearly X or XX drops while the remaining server just looks on.





Meek since you have volunteered to prepare the schedule, your answers which leaves the reader with just 2 options i.e.

a) Get warred for interrupting another guilds raid.
or
b) Sign up for the schedule, and avoid the wars.

Simply seems to be undiplomatic, rude and disrespectful.
I agree that the chances of getting warred was relevant even before the schedule was prepared. My question is wasn't one of the reasons why the so called schedule was forged, was to avoid the wars. Now, rather than finding out the way to avoid it. You are simply sticking to it with your above mentioned options.
This clearly states that you abide by the fact that if a small guild, not in the schedule list(i won't call the guild small if with only 7-9 members they were able to defeat helga) kills helga before the schedule prepared by you. The chances of them getting warred is more cognate and genuine.
This furthermore violates at least 4 ToS

1>No person or guild can claim any area/zone/specific location as their own. If a player(s) can get there, then they have a right to be there.

2> Guild wars are never to be used as a means of coercion. What this means is NEVER threaten to guild war a player if they refuse to do something you want. This is a form of harassment and doing so will risk action against the individual, the guild admins, and in severe cases deletion of the guild

3> Guild wars are never to be used as a means of revenge. It doesn’t matter how much a player may have offended you, or how much you may not like them. This is one reason why we have a block feature.

4> Guild wars are never to be used to kick a player out of an area, or to ruin a players good time.

Secondly the only circumstances that would give rise to a guild war would be when the Helga is a guild affair. If a group of players who know each other closely, everyone being from different guild decide to kill the helga. I don't think there would be any chance of a guild war arising there.

Thirdly, How will you justify the fact that only a handful of guilds are legally allowed to kill Helga and hoard the drops. Just to end up selling them at astronomical price to the others.

I don't hold any grudge against any player, guild, etc. and neither do i want others to have the same for me.
I absolutely praise meek for the initiative he has taken.
But still in my personal opinion i find the whole system kind of inappropriate and hence i decided to contact the CSRs for the same. Hopefully to find out a solution to it.

I'd first like to state that the schedule to be completely unbiased. We give everyone an equal chance. We direct people to the forums to sign their guilds up daily, and we enjoy watching all the raids go on as it happens. There is never going to be a time where every person on Teva has a Hellgait weapon anyways. As for the issue on being 2000+ guilds, the simple fact to solve that is, maybe 20/2000 of those guilds are even able to take a hit from a simple Kallap. "If you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen" so to say.

Next, I'd like to state that Meek wasn't the only one who volunteered. Neon and myself helped out so people need to stop putting the blame on him. All the other guild masters merged some input into the schedule as well so again, don't add the blame on him. The schedule was made to avoid drama, and I didn't see anyone else helped now did I? As far as I'm concerned there has only been one problem the entire time we've held the raids. It was a simple mis-communication between people who spoke two entire different languages. If you even decided to read all the threads you would realize that both threads were made to avoid drama as well. So learn to read before you put words in someone else's mouth.

You are speaking of ToS violations as well. Well let me provide you some that all out hell raids cause. (By the way you are referring to the guild war rules so let me inform you of the ToS Rules.. you know the ones that actually matter?)

d) You may not use any unlawful, threatening, abusive, obscene, harmful, defamatory, vulgar, harassing, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable language toward any other player, in any language as deemed inappropriate by support personnel. The availability of a profanity/language filter is not to grant permission or license to use such language in any form.



e) You may not threaten, harass, nor cause another player distress or create unwanted attention to other players, as interpreted or determined by Outspark support personnel at their sole and absolute discretion.

[Threats are a nono. "I WILL WARZ U IF U COM IN MAH ARea111on". Making threats as this cause distress to the other players as well as embarrassment to yourself.]

i) You may not directly or indirectly encourage, incite, or direct other Outspark Members to violate the Outspark Terms of Service, Rules of Conduct, or any applicable real world laws.

[You do realize by encouraging other people to make full out raids you are in fact other members to break the rules as well.]

May I also state the obvious, what good will warring a guild so if the schedule is put around GUILDS DOING IT TOGETHER? A guild shouldn't have a problem being warred considering they are all together in Helga's Tomb and they do not have a need to leave their guild and have to outside heal eachother.

Regards;

I think most people - me included- find it frustrating that you kinda have to ask for "permission" to get a shot on helga.
moreover, it's a little weird...it's been said that it's an "agreement" between those guilds..so they wont ks each other...
They say guilds that aren't on the list may freely participate aswell..
though..
you are not allowed to pop in and ks..well thats understandable..
but how are you supposed to "join freely" without ksing if there are 7 guilds spread on 7 days?

and like some people already said..
even on the "free days" it's hard to get people together since we all live in different countries/timezones.
And this is not a question about "manpower", you surely can have the manpower, but if u have jobs/school you can't stay up until 4am just to get your one and only chance to kill helga.

What i mean is..it's not easy to organize a whole group of people if you have only 1 "free day"..
and it's even harder if you have to compy with the schedule..not everyone is free on the days others set up.
(well some surely are but thats another story Q_Q)

This again talks about mostly what I just replied to up thar in WALLOTXT. You don't need to ask permission, you can do whatever you want. I can say one thing for sure though. When you waste all the money to go out of your way to KS and don't get the kill or anything, you make yourself seem stupid. (Again this isn't directed directly at you, just using your post as an example of what could happen). You can also be reported for your actions because you break ToS Violations.

If you guys all have a problem I'd like you to all think of a better way. Honestly it's not easy to try to keep peace, and that's all we ask for. If you guys don't want us all to remain friends, then that's completely in your hands.

*sigh* im tellin you they should make more free days and lessen the regular guild's raids/month so at least it would seem fair...

We are trying to make more free days. Trust me we are already deciding which days to give up for [I]our guild to help you guys out.

[Myrielle]

This again talks about mostly what I just replied to up thar in WALLOTXT. You don't need to ask permission, you can do whatever you want. I can say one thing for sure though. When you waste all the money to go out of your way to KS and don't get the kill or anything, you make yourself seem stupid. (Again this isn't directed directly at you, just using your post as an example of what could happen). You can also be reported for your actions because you break ToS Violations.

If you guys all have a problem I'd like you to all think of a better way. Honestly it's not easy to try to keep peace, and that's all we ask for. If you guys don't want us all to remain friends, then that's completely in your hands.

I didn't say that i was planning to ks.
I just wanted to make clear that you can find a lot of contradictions when you read these rules about raiding helga.

[defiant_saim]

I think most people - me included- find it frustrating that you kinda have to ask for "permission" to get a shot on helga.

Like I said in my previous post, you don't have to ask any permission from anybody. There is simply no way that anybody could force somebody to abide self-made rules in the game as this would be a violation of the TOS.

The choice is, at least in my opinion, entirely yours whether you want to follow the schedule or not. In a way it is similar to KS'ing in the abyss. Doing it is not against the rules, but if you go blantly kill people there, you can be sure it will tick people off. It's your own responsibility.


moreover, it's a little weird...it's been said that it's an "agreement" between those guilds..so they wont ks each other...

It is not an agreement between the guilds. It's a broadly supported regulation being set up by individuals to gain mutual benefit by cooperation. If you can gather a party together, composed of people from different guilds, which can kill Helga on a regular basis, why wouldn't you be put in the schedule?


They say guilds that aren't on the list may freely participate aswell..
though..you are not allowed to pop in and ks..well thats understandable..
but how are you supposed to "join freely" without ksing if there are 7 guilds spread on 7 days? and like some people already said..
even on the "free days" it's hard to get people together since we all live in different countries/timezones. And this is not a question about "manpower", you surely can have the manpower, but if u have jobs/school you can't stay up until 4am just to get your one and only chance to kill helga.
What i mean is..it's not easy to organize a whole group of people if you have only 1 "free day"..
and it's even harder if you have to compy with the schedule..not everyone is free on the days others set up.
(well some surely are but thats another story Q_Q)
Everybody has these problems, also the guilds already in the schedule. Like I said in my previous post, it is a lot of work for everybody, also for the bigger guilds to organize all this. Being part of a big guild also doesn't guarantee you can always join the Helga raid.

[Celtic_Princess]

Being part of a big guild also doesn't guarantee you can always join the Helga raid.

No kidding...*sits in her office while her guild raids*

>.< GL Milky

[King_Obito]

I didn't say that i was planning to ks.
I just wanted to make clear that you can find a lot of contradictions when you read these rules about raiding helga.

And I specifically said I wasn't referring to you, it was to anyone.

[neonlovesyou]

(: those are small words for me
D:< *** Neon u got banned

Yea....but shh~ no one knows LMAO xD Until I fix the problems on the other acc, my fighter acc is subjected to get banned, that and a close friend of mine did something who effed everything up

Hint: ='.'=

And I specifically said I wasn't referring to you, it was to anyone.

Q.Q I miss you rika D:<

[Miazma]

I think most people - me included- find it frustrating that you kinda have to ask for "permission" to get a shot on helga.
moreover, it's a little weird...it's been said that it's an "agreement" between those guilds..so they wont ks each other...
They say guilds that aren't on the list may freely participate aswell..
though..
you are not allowed to pop in and ks..well thats understandable..
but how are you supposed to "join freely" without ksing if there are 7 guilds spread on 7 days?

and like some people already said..
even on the "free days" it's hard to get people together since we all live in different countries/timezones.And this is not a question about "manpower", you surely can have the manpower, but if u have jobs/school you can't stay up until 4am just to get your one and only chance to kill helga.

What i mean is..it's not easy to organize a whole group of people if you have only 1 "free day"..
and it's even harder if you have to compy with the schedule..not everyone is free on the days others set up.(well some surely are but thats another story Q_Q)

MOST PEOPLE have decided to work within the boundaries of the schedule because they realise it is the fairest way of sharing Helga. MOST people are not whinging because they cant get the perfect day or time that suits them. Most people are just on the game doing what has to be done to ensure their Helga raid is a success.

It is not easy for a guild with 100 members to organise to have enough players on at the required time. Yes, oddly enough not all members in Inner_Circle come from the same time zone. And I would like to know what the difference is in having a *free day* and a *set* day, either way you have to organise to have the people there.

*sigh* im tellin you they should make more free days and lessen the regular guild's raids/month so at least it would seem fair...

I think you and me are not the only ones thinking like this.
more free days would give other guilds flexibility to organize a raid

and sorry i forgot to multipost lol Dx

You complain that guilds with *set* days have an advantage, the *free* days are there for guilds not on the list to show they can kill Helga and would then be added to the *set* days.

OH NO there is only 7 days in a week :( so sad, too bad, that is when the schedule becomes a 2 week schedule and *set* guilds get 1 shot every 14 days.

If you put as much energy into playing the game and gathering a group of friends who can kill Helga as you do on here complaining you would already be on the schedule.

[Myrielle]

Everybody has these problems, also the guilds already in the schedule. Like I said in my previous post, it is a lot of work for everybody, also for the bigger guilds to organize all this. Being part of a big guild also doesn't guarantee you can always join the Helga raid.


they might have the same problems but resolving these problems while being in the list already should be easier than handling them and trying to get into the list at the same time.

[Myrielle]

OH NO there is only 7 days in a week :( so sad, too bad, that is when the schedule becomes a 2 week schedule and *set* guilds get 1 shot every 14 days.

well for me, i would be fine with that, you too? ;)

[King_Obito]

Yea....but shh~ no one knows LMAO xD Until I fix the problems on the other acc, my fighter acc is subjected to get banned, that and a close friend of mine did something who effed everything up

Hint: ='.'=



Q.Q I miss you rika D:<

I miss you too Neon ;-;...

[bithun86]

[SIZE="1"]I'd first like to state that the schedule to be completely unbiased. We give everyone an equal chance. We direct people to the forums to sign their guilds up daily, and we enjoy watching all the raids go on as it happens.
I'd like to ask how do u call it biased??
Asking someone to prove his or her strength to be a part of the raid?(i don't think OS has invested the right in anyone, except for GMs, GLs or CSRs to judge someone)
Leaving just 5 days for server wide raid. While few guilds themselves take up about 5 days of the month in schedule themselves.
Denying a guild of outside help whereas the helga itself was never meant to be a guild affair. I dont think Ons On Soft or outspark either ever wanted helga to be just a guild affair itself.
And as per your schedule if a person needs to fight helga and have helga drops he or she needs to join one of those 6 mentioned guilds(i don't think that's unbiased at all, i'd call it an advertisement)

There is never going to be a time where every person on Teva has a Hellgait weapon anyways.
That certainly doesn't mean that a single person or guild has X or XX helga weapons. You have any idea how that'll end up damaging the in game economy. That single person ends up making lots of gems by selling those weapons. While the remaining server or the players not belonging to the guild just look on as consumers.

As for the issue on being 2000+ guilds, the simple fact to solve that is, maybe 20/2000 of those guilds are even able to take a hit from a simple Kallap. "If you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen" so to say.
Well as the matter of fact
firstly, even those 20/2000 of the guilds don't find a place in the schedule
secondly, we are against the whole guild affair idea itself.
thirdly talking theoretically, if even 1 person from those 2000 guild is able to take on a kallap, that leaves us with 2000 players. How do you wish to accommodate them?? by asking them to quit their guild and join the bigger one, the ones part of the schedule??

Next, I'd like to state that Meek wasn't the only one who volunteered. Neon and myself helped out so people need to stop putting the blame on him. All the other guild masters merged some input into the schedule as well so again, don't add the blame on him. The schedule was made to avoid drama, and I didn't see anyone else helped now did I? As far as I'm concerned there has only been one problem the entire time we've held the raids. It was a simple mis-communication between people who spoke two entire different languages. If you even decided to read all the threads you would realize that both threads were made to avoid drama as well. So learn to read before you put words in someone else's mouth.
I think i have already stated it again and again that i don't hold any grudges against meek the only reason i mentioned his name was because i quoted his post and that was the reason i blamed him too. The schedule was made to avoid drama but on contrary i see a whole new soap opera coming up because of the schedule. I do(like others) acclaim the effort you guys have put into it. But still most of us in this thread don't believe it to be the best thing. As of the miscommunication between people who spoke two entire different language, i think it can never be resolved(in terms of language barrier) because by asking a certain person who doesnt understand a particular language to quit his/her's and join the guilds in the schedule won't be a solution either.
Secondly, the mis-communication was not just between people speaking two different language. rather it is the mis-communication between two individuals having different perspective with both speaking the same language. and I dont think it's over yet in spite of the schedule.

You are speaking of ToS violations as well. Well let me provide you some that all out hell raids cause. (By the way you are referring to the guild war rules so let me inform you of the ToS Rules.. you know the ones that actually matter?)
Violation of guild war rules hold almost an equal importance(if not the same) to those of ToS violation and since i have mentioned them word to word i know what they mean.

d) You may not use any unlawful, threatening, abusive, obscene, harmful, defamatory, vulgar, harassing, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable language toward any other player, in any language as deemed inappropriate by support personnel. The availability of a profanity/language filter is not to grant permission or license to use such language in any form.

[I think this is pretty self apparent why I put it here, people will be cursing at each other to "GET AWAZZ FRUM MAH MOB111!!1on]

e) You may not threaten, harass, nor cause another player distress or create unwanted attention to other players, as interpreted or determined by Outspark support personnel at their sole and absolute discretion.

[Threats are a nono. "I WILL WARZ U IF U COM IN MAH ARea111on". Making threats as this cause distress to the other players as well as embarrassment to yourself.]

suppose a group of players not in the schedule reach ToH before the scheduled guild does and kill helga. Do you assure the following ToS violation won't take place? Secondly you can't stop them from doing so(can you?)
because that will be a direct violation of ToS(the one mentioned above by you and also the one mentioned by me in my post)

i) You may not directly or indirectly encourage, incite, or direct other Outspark Members to violate the Outspark Terms of Service, Rules of Conduct, or any applicable real world laws.

[You do realize by encouraging other people to make full out raids you are in fact other members to break the rules as well.]

I Think even by encouraging players to stick to the schedule and act accordingly if someone interferes the same, you are violating the ToS as well.
As of making a full out raid doesn't necessarily mean KSing without the permission of the other party who had the first hit on the mob.(if someone does you have the right to take a screenshot and post it over to outspark instead of acting against it in a violent manner)
Secondly if by making a full out raid you think one violates the rules in that case every player who organised the server wide helga raid(until the date helga spawn became 24 hrs) would be considered as directly violating the ToS(according to you).

May I also state the obvious, what good will warring a guild so if the schedule is put around GUILDS DOING IT TOGETHER? A guild shouldn't have a problem being warred considering they are all together in Helga's Tomb and they do not have a need to leave their guild and have to outside heal eachother.

I could vaguely make out the meaning of what you wrote in the above mentioned quote. Anyways firstly about a guild doing it together just to avoid being warred by someone. My answer is if some guild wars you for the purpose of revenge or a means of coercion or to kick you out of an area, outspark has endowed you with all the rights to contact CSR or GM for a ToS(guild war) violation. Secondly if 10 people from suppose 5 different guilds come together to raid ToH i don't think any guild war situation would arise then.
Incase someone tries to KS without taking your prior permission(considering your party get the first it) you can once again report it over to OS staffs.

I hope the OS staffs or CSRs find a solution to this whole issue now.
Regards

[Myrielle]

I'd like to ask how do u call it biased??
Asking someone to prove his or her strength to be a part of the raid?(i don't think OS has invested the right in anyone, except for GMs, GLs or CSRs to judge someone)
Leaving just 5 days for server wide raid. While few guilds themselves take up about 5 days of the month in schedule themselves.
Denying a guild of outside help whereas the helga itself was never meant to be a guild affair. I dont think Ons On Soft or outspark either ever wanted helga to be just a guild affair itself.
And as per your schedule if a person needs to fight helga and have helga drops he or she needs to join one of those 6 mentioned guilds(i don't think that's unbiased at all, i'd call it an advertisement)


That certainly doesn't mean that a single person or guild has X or XX helga weapons. You have any idea how that'll end up damaging the in game economy. That single person ends up making lots of gems by selling those weapons. While the remaining server or the players not belonging to the guild just look on as consumers.


Well as the matter of fact
firstly, even those 20/2000 of the guilds don't find a place in the schedule
secondly, we are against the whole guild affair idea itself.
thirdly talking theoretically, if even 1 person from those 2000 guild is able to take on a kallap, that leaves us with 2000 players. How do you wish to accommodate them?? by asking them to quit their guild and join the bigger one, the ones part of the schedule??


I think i have already stated it again and again that i don't hold any grudges against meek the only reason i mentioned his name was because i quoted his post and that was the reason i blamed him too. The schedule was made to avoid drama but on contrary i see a whole new soap opera coming up because of the schedule. I do(like others) acclaim the effort you guys have put into it. But still most of us in this thread don't believe it to be the best thing. As of the miscommunication between people who spoke two entire different language, i think it can never be resolved(in terms of language barrier) because by asking a certain person who doesnt understand a particular language to quit his/her's and join the guilds in the schedule won't be a solution either.
Secondly, the mis-communication was not just between people speaking two different language. rather it is the mis-communication between two individuals having different perspective with both speaking the same language. and I dont think it's over yet in spite of the schedule.


Violation of guild war rules hold almost an equal importance(if not the same) to those of ToS violation and since i have mentioned them word to word i know what they mean.



suppose a group of players not in the schedule reach ToH before the scheduled guild does and kill helga. Do you assure the following ToS violation won't take place? Secondly you can't stop them from doing so(can you?)
because that will be a direct violation of ToS(the one mentioned above by you and also the one mentioned by me in my post)



I Think even by encouraging players to stick to the schedule and act accordingly if someone interferes the same, you are violating the ToS as well.
As of making a full out raid doesn't necessarily mean KSing without the permission of the other party who had the first hit on the mob.(if someone does you have the right to take a screenshot and post it over to outspark instead of acting against it in a violent manner)
Secondly if by making a full out raid you think one violates the rules in that case every player who organised the server wide helga raid(until the date helga spawn became 24 hrs) would be considered as directly violating the ToS(according to you).



I could vaguely make out the meaning of what you wrote in the above mentioned quote. Anyways firstly about a guild doing it together just to avoid being warred by someone. My answer is if some guild wars you for the purpose of revenge or a means of coercion or to kick you out of an area, outspark has endowed you with all the rights to contact CSR or GM for a ToS(guild war) violation. Secondly if 10 people from suppose 5 different guilds come together to raid ToH i don't think any guild war situation would arise then.
Incase someone tries to KS without taking your prior permission(considering your party get the first it) you can once again report it over to OS staffs.

I hope the OS staffs or CSRs find a solution to this whole issue now.
Regards


Awesomeness Q_Q

[neonlovesyou]

Awesomeness Q_Q

Sigh~ I bet this wouldnt happen if everyone had a spot since the first week O.o.

[Nipah]

-was gunna post something but is gunna keep my mouth shut cuz it's probably rude-

:D

[defiant_saim]

they might have the same problems but resolving these problems while being in the list already should be easier than handling them and trying to get into the list at the same time.

And why would that be?

[neonlovesyou]

-was gunna post something but is gunna keep my mouth shut cuz it's probably rude-

:D

OMG BLPWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW .___.

I

Miss


Your


Blpws


Q.Q

[TheRealSasukeUchiha]

let me just put my input on this entire, "i spend money on game etc and should get my money's worth by having no interruption while killing helga" i know plenty of ppl purchase spark cash, it has come to my attention that some people simply feel the over power of helgaits already breed unfairness in it self, especially since the stats are not changing.

On the spending money note, if you buy charms and etc and can reach over 5k def with full party and others things like that, you will still stand no chance against guilds with a supply of helgaits or anyone with one for that matter. thus making it no point of the future buying of charms or just a simple waste of charming when you have to face helgait wielders in the future ;o. 5kdef with party against 6k dmg from axe + that persons charms and with pure str build or without pure str build. not to mention attempting to tank hidden archers on helgaits xDD

yea but once more im not criticizing anyone , but of course the guilds benefitting from this will definitely see no fault in the whole schedule.

I do like the fact that meek is open to suggestions, making it better for those of us who still have a little feel of unfairness with the schedule etc.

[King_Obito]

I'd like to ask how do u call it biased??
Asking someone to prove his or her strength to be a part of the raid?(i don't think OS has invested the right in anyone, except for GMs, GLs or CSRs to judge someone)
Leaving just 5 days for server wide raid. While few guilds themselves take up about 5 days of the month in schedule themselves.
Denying a guild of outside help whereas the helga itself was never meant to be a guild affair. I dont think Ons On Soft or outspark either ever wanted helga to be just a guild affair itself.
And as per your schedule if a person needs to fight helga and have helga drops he or she needs to join one of those 6 mentioned guilds(i don't think that's unbiased at all, i'd call it an advertisement)


That certainly doesn't mean that a single person or guild has X or XX helga weapons. You have any idea how that'll end up damaging the in game economy. That single person ends up making lots of gems by selling those weapons. While the remaining server or the players not belonging to the guild just look on as consumers.


Well as the matter of fact
firstly, even those 20/2000 of the guilds don't find a place in the schedule
secondly, we are against the whole guild affair idea itself.
thirdly talking theoretically, if even 1 person from those 2000 guild is able to take on a kallap, that leaves us with 2000 players. How do you wish to accommodate them?? by asking them to quit their guild and join the bigger one, the ones part of the schedule??


I think i have already stated it again and again that i don't hold any grudges against meek the only reason i mentioned his name was because i quoted his post and that was the reason i blamed him too. The schedule was made to avoid drama but on contrary i see a whole new soap opera coming up because of the schedule. I do(like others) acclaim the effort you guys have put into it. But still most of us in this thread don't believe it to be the best thing. As of the miscommunication between people who spoke two entire different language, i think it can never be resolved(in terms of language barrier) because by asking a certain person who doesnt understand a particular language to quit his/her's and join the guilds in the schedule won't be a solution either.
Secondly, the mis-communication was not just between people speaking two different language. rather it is the mis-communication between two individuals having different perspective with both speaking the same language. and I dont think it's over yet in spite of the schedule.


Violation of guild war rules hold almost an equal importance(if not the same) to those of ToS violation and since i have mentioned them word to word i know what they mean.



suppose a group of players not in the schedule reach ToH before the scheduled guild does and kill helga. Do you assure the following ToS violation won't take place? Secondly you can't stop them from doing so(can you?)
because that will be a direct violation of ToS(the one mentioned above by you and also the one mentioned by me in my post)



I Think even by encouraging players to stick to the schedule and act accordingly if someone interferes the same, you are violating the ToS as well.
As of making a full out raid doesn't necessarily mean KSing without the permission of the other party who had the first hit on the mob.(if someone does you have the right to take a screenshot and post it over to outspark instead of acting against it in a violent manner)
Secondly if by making a full out raid you think one violates the rules in that case every player who organised the server wide helga raid(until the date helga spawn became 24 hrs) would be considered as directly violating the ToS(according to you).



I could vaguely make out the meaning of what you wrote in the above mentioned quote. Anyways firstly about a guild doing it together just to avoid being warred by someone. My answer is if some guild wars you for the purpose of revenge or a means of coercion or to kick you out of an area, outspark has endowed you with all the rights to contact CSR or GM for a ToS(guild war) violation. Secondly if 10 people from suppose 5 different guilds come together to raid ToH i don't think any guild war situation would arise then.
Incase someone tries to KS without taking your prior permission(considering your party get the first it) you can once again report it over to OS staffs.

I hope the OS staffs or CSRs find a solution to this whole issue now.
Regards

Again, as I said, we know we aren't in charge of any of you. To be honest I could care less about what anyone does because I know the rules and can easy hit the Print Screen button and report. Leaving 5 days open a week would cause more problems than you would even want to deal with, and again the stronger guilds would again get all the weapons which therefore leads people back to complaining. As for the issue of the leaving and joining guilds, we are giving everyone an equal opportunity (once again). No one asks anyone to leave their guild and "Oh hey while you're at it join mine".

Also I don't believe it's much of ruining the economy, I underprice all my Hellgait weapons and even give some to my friends which ask to remain to be nameless. If people share them throughout big guilds and friends, then I see no honest problem in the economy with them. People can do what they wish of selling their items. It's up to the people that buy them that really set the standards.

I don't wish to accommodate the other 2000 players considering most of the people who come to free raids aren't even 8x. Maybe when they become a level to actually use them I'll feel for them. A level 6x begging to be in a party which they will get killed anyways is not worthy of an item 30+ levels ahead of them. Including if the stats itself are higher than the users actual level. Again I'm not the law of Fiesta and it's not my job to care about who gets what weapons.

If you didn't hold any grudges then why make a big ol` rant about his supposed method to killing Helga. You do realize NO ONE has to follow it. There is always going to be drama even in an organized method and that cannot be helped no matter which way you put it. Just think of it this way, we are greatly LESSENING what the affect could be. I think you in fact are not understanding what I meant with the miscommunications. The women who we had the tussle with does not naturally speak English so therefore she is not supposed to know everything about the rules. We all apologized and the issue is forgotten about [for the most part].

Last time I checked, when you do to report someone you do not get a category that is entitled "Guild War Rules". Those rules were made by a GM who was fired.. I think that says it all. When you sign up for Fiesta it does not ask you to read the Guild War Rules created by a GM who was fired, no it asks you to read the TOS and have a general understanding of it.

Again I have no control over who does what, I can simply tell them that people will be very upset if they intentionally come into Helga's Tomb threatening to ruin their time and KS. That's an easy report and that's the end of the subject. Whatever happens to them is in charge of the CSR team.

For about the 20th time, I again am not [as well as anyone] FORCING people to follow the rules. We just suggest it as a better method than all out chaos and tearing us all apart. We are a community and we should act that way instead of a bunch of power hungry idiots.

[TheRealSasukeUchiha]

bithun86 dont argue with obito, she likes to talk alot or type which ever you prefer to say. lawl dont waste the finger strength. this thread was i believe for suggestions to schedule not from someone benefitting greatly from the schedule to talk about how it is unbiased when many ppl feel it is. and thing bringing up ToS like your not breaking it or havent broken it as well. dont let the player of the month .jpg .gif w/e get to your head. ;o being down to earth is best way to see diffrent ppl views, not be typing annoying small text to continue arguments

ppl who made the schedule or "helpers" of the schedule say you are not forcing anyone to conform to the schedule. you may not notice this but you are with very little free days out of the month and a large percent of those free days off limits to those people with lives xD

anyways.. so teva mercenaries thread obsolete?

[thedark17]

Here's my two cents....

Having 5 main guilds with 4 days for helga per month [not including free days] is ridiculous, no offence to meek and ichigo, who did an amazing job, but what about groups of people that want to try, do they have a chance? And, I'm pretty sure since 5 people have killed helga [Congrats :)(Not a sarcastic congrats, im not like that)] Shouldnt almost every guild with 5 8x's be able to try? Just because MA,IC,BIIR,LL Etc. are the "top" guilds shouldnt give them the merit to continuously have helga spots Q.Q

Also, Helga should have a longer respawn time, maybe 3-7 days? and be alot stronger...

Lastly, Helga weapons req's should be put to 105 [Cap Raise Max Level] So people have something to motivate them to level to 105 ;D

Not trying to flame or anything, its just an opinion

(Dont Hate Me After This, 'Specially Anyone Who Disagrees)

[King_Obito]

bithun86 dont argue with obito, she likes to talk alot or type which ever you prefer to say. lawl dont waste the finger strength. this thread was i believe for suggestions to schedule not from someone benefitting greatly from the schedule to talk about how it is unbiased when many ppl feel it is. and thing bringing up ToS like your not breaking it or havent broken it as well. dont let the player of the month .jpg .gif w/e get to your head. ;o being down to earth is best way to see diffrent ppl views, not be typing annoying small text to continue arguments

ppl who made the schedule or "helpers" of the schedule say you are not forcing anyone to conform to the schedule. you may not notice this but you are with very little free days out of the month and a large percent of those free days off limits to those people with lives xD

anyways.. so teva mercenaries thread obsolete?

http://i39.tinypic.com/2a91rnp.jpg

[thedark17]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2a91rnp.jpg

L
M
A
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That Pic is Funneh ;3

[TheRealSasukeUchiha]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2a91rnp.jpg

l
a
w
l

green happens to be one of my favorite colors, howd you know :D

[King_Obito]

l
a
w
l

green happens to be one of my favorite colors, howd you know :D

If I told you it would lose the mystique.

[Celtic_Princess]

To those who oppose the schedule I put these questions:


What method can you come up with that keeps one guild from dominating Helga?

What method can you come up with that keeps at least the majority happy and included?

What method can you come up with that maintains the peace?


Sure, the schedule idea does hold its flaws...but instead of complaining about those flaws wouldn't it be more productive to find a way to fix them?

Speaking to members of guilds who are not on that list I can see the perspective that smaller guilds have a harder time participating. Especially since individuals are often turned away from participating in the already scheduled guilds raids...or those that are allowed to participate are 'ineligible' to receive drops. This should not happen, no individual who wants to participate in a planned raid should be turned away because a guild has claimed the spot. I think that is what a lot of people that aren't on the list are seeing. To those on this side of the fence am I correct?

One user proposed a solution to this: Write in more free-days in which small guilds can gather and raid without members from larger guilds being there. I believe Meek is working on doing this, I would like to know how members of the smaller guilds feel about such a solution.

I can also see why larger guilds see the schedule as fair. At one point in time, only one guild was killing Helga. So only they got a chance...at this point a number of guilds have the opportunity and I'm sure none of them want to be excluded from their chance at Helga either.

Now, I can understand why some people are in support of this schedule and some are not. However, I cannot understand why instead of coming to a solution that pleases everyone it has, in a number of threads now, been reduced to flaming.

This game was my first MMORPG, and as such Teva feels like home. I have a strong attachment to it and I would prefer that it didn't get ripped apart over the allocation of a single, in demand mob. Personally, I'm proud that this server has come so far as to even try to create a peaceful solution...I'd be thrilled if we managed to work together to come up with a peaceful solution that works for everyone.

[IroguroMeek]

Okay Okay @_@, so I've read this thread like 2 times now and I seriously still do not see what you guys are complaining about lol, no offense. It just seems like everything is extremely disorganized and it is hard to follow.

May I suggest that you guys compile a list of what you find is unfair and how to make it fair? It would make things a lot easier for me and everyone else.

RSU and JJ (don't mean to blacklist) about your guys' raid. Can you guys clarify something for me. Is the raid that you guys will be doing, does it include everyone who wants to help you guys regardless of level (besides guilds/groups already on the list) or is the raid going to be just you two and whoever you guys decide to let in?

[TheRealSasukeUchiha]

well i cant really speak for jj but we have our own guild and are recruiting ppl, we have ppl for the raid, that use spark cash and etc. I know for a fact we wont be letting in just anyone, however like i said i cant really confirm any thing until jj tells me something else.

One user proposed a solution to this: Write in more free-days in which small guilds can gather and raid without members from larger guilds being there.

yea i was thinking of something similar to that. Cus it wouldnt be fair if the guilds on the list still get drops from the free days, when they already get drops on assigned days during the weeks. just a simple 2nd to that motion ;o

[mredlodge]

I see alot of ppl talking about it not being a fair list, not enough free days, main guilds assured of too many spots. You have to remember, some of these main guilds waited almost 2 weeks for thier first shot too. We didn't want to wait...but we respected this schedule and waited.

I have no problem if we all agreed to have an entire week of guilds/groups trying out and establishing if they are a group capable of killing Helga. We could mix in a few server raids upon failures if some days don't suit groups.

But in the end, if we come out with a list of 12-14 groups. Those groups have to understand that they may not get the perfect time for them to all be online when it's time for them to kill Helga. Your group has to be large enough that it doesn't take every single one of you to kill him. You have to be able to make the kill with less than the entire group, given you have enough time to prepare.

These raids are going to continue for a year or two...probably longer since the weapons are originally made for high levels. If waiting a week to get on a list makes you impatient, keep in mind this schedule will continue even after cap raise, even after the next cap raise, and probably after that as well.

[TheRealSasukeUchiha]

you can see into the future O_O?

[defiant_saim]

On the more free days. If it's necessary I don't see anything bad about it, but it seems a bit strange to add more free days when the current free days aren't really being claimed by parties so far yet (or am I mistaken here? I might have missed it). To me it only makes sense to add more free days when there is actual demand for it, otherwise it just seems to make things harder to organize.

Now for the point that more free days offers more flexibility to guilds who want to try and kill Helga, I can understand that. But if you want to kill Helga on a regular basis, having a choice between 5 free days actually offers more flexibility than what you get when you become part of the list. If you just want to kill Helga once, and none of the free days fit, why not just ask one of the guilds to trade a spot or contact Meek and settle something?

[TheRealSasukeUchiha]

why must everything be claimed? you people that keep saying the same thing fail to see how difficult the whole ask to join a raid or etc.. i have asked several guilds of close friend and it was a kind "guild thing" then what does someone do who has no guild that actively purchases sc or guild willing to let him/her help them or join a raid etc. and u cannot claim a spot =.=

besides once the free days are actually free to those who dont get a chance in the schedule im sure people will begin to make parties, until then, theres no point in wasting the sc when the same scheduled guilds will get drop on free days as well


;o

[HeroicAce]

they dont get the drops on free days. free days are NOT server raids. free days are days open for guilds to sign up. and saim is right there are several free days that no one has opted to take up. so why should guilds give up days when no one is actually signing up for the ones we have? sure people are saying they want more free days, but if those same people wont even try for the open ones or swap for a better day then there is no point. more than likely if they added more free days and made everything less strict then more ksing and fighting would erupt because its easier to do so. one reason why the schedule works pretty well is because how hard it is to get a place. it makes you appreciate the day you have and not worry so much about the 6 days a week you dont have. we all know that if this schedule wasnt set up then the largest guilds would be raiding helga every day instead of once a week. its for that reason that i dont think they should add more free days until there is a clear need for them.

[OmniXeon]

To those who accept(used to be opposed) the schedule I put these questions:


What method can you come up with that keeps one guild from dominating Helga?

What method can you come up with that keeps at least the majority happy and included?

What method can you come up with that maintains the peace?



One user proposed a solution to this: Write in more free-days in which small guilds can gather and raid without members from larger guilds being there.

Personally I say this to all those that do think the schedlue is fair: If it is fair then why do other people complain? Instead of saying that it works out fine time should be taken to consider new revisions. In my opinion both sides need to come up with an agreement rather than clashing with one another and shutting each other out.

And the solution that Celtic mentiond "add more free days" is a good suggestion. Too add to that suggestion, I feel that the free days should also be made more time friendly for other guilds.
There is no valid reason why a guild should get 3-5 chances at a raid every month. The point is; yes, there are free days, but are the times and days friendly for all the peopl who want to get a shot at it? Look at the current schedule, one guild has a raid on only mondays, and the other on fridays. Now why is it those days are reserved for them?(note: I know that those guilds can switch if they are willing to.)

My suggestion: Limit guild raids to 2 per month for the "guilds that can kill helga" and make the rest free days for other guilds to try it out. And, if those other guilds fail, then one of the larger guilds can take over. If one of the guilds suceed, well another added to the list then.

Guilds will still have to apply to get on the schedule, the only different is that those with excessive amounts of days have to sacrifice a day or two if another non-schedule guild wants a shot.

Edit: Yes, if anyoe states it, I know this schedule thing is still fairly new.

[Kyo_Sama]

1. Forget the schedule

2. Outspark puts a debuff timer on guilds that succeed in killing helga that last 3 week rendering them unable to kill her again till it expires.

3. Outspark turns helga into a guild instance

=============

cons to said solutions

1. To many ks tickets sent to support
1a. solution - Filter all helga support and drop all that have KS anywhere in it

2. People will just pay 300s and remake the same raid guild
2a. Delete all guilds that are innactive for more than 24hrs and place a 3 week wait timer on freshly created guilds.

3. Rapid farming of helga will lead to devaluation in the item much like KQ blues after gordon.
3a. Solution, Make them Bind on equip or Npc Only.



There is no reason players should at all be incharge of a single spawn, let alone it being based on popularity. Then again what happened to Server raids, no one complained about ks'ing then. But now that its a guild thing everyone screams bloody murder.

Ultimate solution:

Remove helga and all helgait Items until level 120 and move helga to her proper spot with her 7 day respawn

[IroguroMeek]

Personally I say this to all those that do think the schedlue is fair: If it is fair then why do other people complain? Instead of saying that it works out fine time should be taken to consider new revisions. In my opinion both sides need to come up with an agreement rather than clashing with one another and shutting each other out.

And the solution that Celtic mentiond "add more free days" is a good suggestion. Too add to that suggestion, I feel that the free days should also be made more time friendly for other guilds.
There is no valid reason why a guild should get 3-5 chances at a raid every month. The point is; yes, there are free days, but are the times and days friendly for all the peopl who want to get a shot at it? Look at the current schedule, one guild has a raid on only mondays, and the other on fridays. Now why is it those days are reserved for them?(note: I know that those guilds can switch if they are willing to.)

My suggestion: Limit guild raids to 2 per month for the "guilds that can kill helga" and make the rest free days for other guilds to try it out. And, if those other guilds fail, then one of the larger guilds can take over. If one of the guilds suceed, well another added to the list then.

Guilds will still have to apply to get on the schedule, the only different is that those with excessive amounts of days have to sacrifice a day or two if another non-schedule guild wants a shot.

Edit: Yes, if anyoe states it, I know this schedule thing is still fairly new.

We are already having guilds skip their days each week to make room for other guilds/groups. And eventually it will become a 2 week schedule or it will be come 2 guilds getting skipped each week instead of one. In the end that comes down to about 3 raids per month.

And as for the time and day friendly thing, I think overall it is quite fair. If you look at the other thread, a free day is opened a different day each week. So that means, someone who can not make it to Monday for a raid, can go next week for Tuesday or Wednesday, etc..etc..etc..As for the time, it works with the days as well. If a guild/group (or server raid) can only make it for raids early in the day, they can go to Wednesday and Thursday raids.

And as others have stated, we have roughly 2 free days a week, and I am trying to make it 3 free days a week and no one has signed up to take up the free days we have set. So far, only 1 guild has confirmed which day they want to raid on. If none of the free days that we have are being used up, then there is no reason to open up more free days. I think the issue most people are against, is the whole, requirement rule. It is in no way to make someone or a group look weak, but I'm sure anyone who has gone up against Helga, knows that what we listed is what is needed. You just can't run in there without a plan or the right set up and hope to kill Helga.

To be honest, there is and will never be a way in which 100% of people will be satisfied. You please one, you upset the other. That is how life is and will always be. But what we can do, is try to satisfy the majority of people.

I personally am getting very tired of having to deal with all this, I can't even log on Fiesta without having someone whisper me about how I should change it and how biased I am, etc..etc..

[TheRealSasukeUchiha]

they dont get the drops on free days. free days are NOT server raids. free days are days open for guilds to sign up. and saim is right there are several free days that no one has opted to take up. so why should guilds give up days when no one is actually signing up for the ones we have? sure people are saying they want more free days, but if those same people wont even try for the open ones or swap for a better day then there is no point. more than likely if they added more free days and made everything less strict then more ksing and fighting would erupt because its easier to do so. one reason why the schedule works pretty well is because how hard it is to get a place. it makes you appreciate the day you have and not worry so much about the 6 days a week you dont have. we all know that if this schedule wasnt set up then the largest guilds would be raiding helga every day instead of once a week. its for that reason that i dont think they should add more free days until there is a clear need for them.

so then the schedule should say "claimable days" rather than free. ;o

[Kyo_Sama]

I personally am getting very tired of having to deal with all this, I can't even log on Fiesta without having someone whisper me about how I should change it and how biased I am, etc..etc..

Look at the schedule right now and tell me thats not the bias isnt the truth...

seriously i dare you to.

[HeroicAce]

that might be a better way to phrase it, but yeah thats what they are. i think they put free to imply that it was free to ask for, but who knows. ask meek why he and neon worded it the way they did, i just read the thread so much i kinda new what they meant

[IroguroMeek]

Look at the schedule right now and tell me thats not the bias isnt the truth...

seriously i dare you to.

I don't see how it is considered bias when I openly state that if anyone wants a day they just need to ask. I'm sure your guild easily meets the requirments. Instead of going out and ruining other people's raids, why not sign up instead?

And yeah, free = claimable. If you read through the rules, it would be clear that free meant you can choose that day.

[Kyo_Sama]

I don't see how it is considered bias when I openly state that if anyone wants a day they just need to ask. I'm sure your guild easily meets the requirments. Instead of going out and ruining other people's raids, why not sign up instead?

And yeah, free = claimable. If you read through the rules, it would be clear that free meant you can choose that day.

You dont see said flaw in your statement or plans do you.


For starters Helga has to be killed at a time convenient for the biggest guilds.

The Smaller Groups / Guilds have to ask permission to goto an open map and kill a free boss from the bigger guilds.


In making this schedule you've effectively set a monopoly and hierarchy of guilds into place, one which promotes just as much greed as a free for all.


The set schedule current has 7 free days, last i check theres over 3k guilds on teva. you can do the math on how well thats going to work.


Free days / Guild raid days have to be claimed in essence you are promoting spot claiming.



Now then show me you're really not biased at all.

You know what i find ironic, no one cared when it was Server raid and anyone was free to go, probably cause you all knew it was for fun. The moment you all here how easy helga has become you want to go and set a schedule and make it the law of the land. Its you're guideline not everyone agrees that this is the best solution or even one worthy of thought.

In summation Helga is the worst idea outspark has had. Lets nerf a 120 boss so badly that groups of people 30 levels lower can kill him daily. Furthermore lets have him still drop weapons with a reduced level limit.

You honestly think helga was supposed to be this easy ? Its designed to be an endgame feature for those that are 120. It should have stayed this way.

Congrats on abusing your popularity to brainwash the ignorant players on teva into believing that might makes right even if its passive aggressive.

[HeroicAce]

In summation Helga is the worst idea outspark has had. Lets nerf a 120 boss so badly that groups of people 30 levels lower can kill him daily. Furthermore lets have him still drop weapons with a reduced level limit.

You honestly think helga was supposed to be this easy ? Its designed to be an endgame feature for those that are 120. It should have stayed this way.

Congrats on abusing your popularity to brainwash the ignorant players on teva into believing that might makes right even if its passive aggressive.

just to clarify a bit, yes helga's lvl is 120, but he was not added at the 120 cap raise nor is he an endgame feature. the hellgait weapons also do not have a reduced lvl limit. lvl 91 is their original lvl. and finally im not positive on this last one but people have told me that his spawn time on the other games is also one day. really the only difference between our helga and theirs is the map we started with although now we have the right one, the map the gate is in is supposed to be swamp of dawn, and we got him during 79 cap while his original release was during the 99 cap raise. and before you ask, yes i could prove this but we are no longer allowed to post links to the websites of other versions of fiesta so you will either have to trust me or look it up yourselves.

[legendking3]

You dont see said flaw in your statement or plans do you.


For starters Helga has to be killed at a time convenient for the biggest guilds.
the time isn't convenient for everyone but it's designed so that helga can be killed everyday



The Smaller Groups / Guilds have to ask permission to goto an open map and kill a free boss from the bigger guilds.
the smaller guilds wouldnt be able to kill helga because some bigger guild already killed it so the "big guilds" letting the smaller guilds raid would still be the same without the schedual, but would be alot harder to convince a "big guild" to let a smaller one raid


In making this schedule you've effectively set a monopoly and hierarchy of guilds into place, one which promotes just as much greed as a free for all.
it's either this or the same guild killing it every day, with millions of wars going on, disputes between players, and alot more unneeded drama


The set schedule current has 7 free days, last i check theres over 3k guilds on teva. you can do the math on how well thats going to work.
we have 3k guilds, that's true, but how many of them actually have more than 1 member? that cuts it down to less than 100 right there. now how many guilds can kill helga? that's less than 10, so the 7 free days seem fair enough, and they are server raid days as well if no small guild wants to sign up for them.


Free days / Guild raid days have to be claimed in essence you are promoting spot claiming.

it's to make sure that everyone gets a fair shot at it instead of a guild claiming, and killing helga repetitvly and in effect "claiming" helga.

Now then show me you're really not biased at all.

You know what i find ironic, no one cared when it was Server raid and anyone was free to go, probably cause you all knew it was for fun. The moment you all here how easy helga has become you want to go and set a schedule and make it the law of the land. Its you're guideline not everyone agrees that this is the best solution or even one worthy of thought.

In summation Helga is the worst idea outspark has had. Lets nerf a 120 boss so badly that groups of people 30 levels lower can kill him daily. Furthermore lets have him still drop weapons with a reduced level limit.

You honestly think helga was supposed to be this easy ? Its designed to be an endgame feature for those that are 120. It should have stayed this way.

Congrats on abusing your popularity to brainwash the ignorant players on teva into believing that might makes right even if its passive aggressive.
helga being a mistake or not is not really up to us to decide, it's in the game and instead of having all the drama you'd expect, we actually came up with a mannered way of doing it. I think that as long as everyone cooporates it should work out fine.

comments in bold in quote

[Kyo_Sama]

i do believe you misunderstand what an endgame feature is.

Let me explain this simply, an Endgame feature as with any MMO is content added that serves no real purpose other than to keep people playing while the game is still being produced.

The only purpose there is for helga is bragging rights and weapons, Helga / ToH is no different than PK'ers in the Abyss, or PvP'ers in FBZ's.

[HeroicAce]

i do believe you misunderstand what an endgame feature is.

Let me explain this simply, an Endgame feature as with any MMO is content added that serves no real purpose other than to keep people playing while the game is still being produced.

The only purpose there is for helga is bragging rights and weapons, Helga / ToH is no different than PK'ers in the Abyss, or PvP'ers in FBZ's.

might as well throw GH and all the dungeon bosses that were the hardest at the cap raise in that definition then, but does it really matter? the point was that he isnt really different from the original helga.

[Iffrit]

You dont see said flaw in your statement or plans do you.


For starters Helga has to be killed at a time convenient for the biggest guilds.

The Smaller Groups / Guilds have to ask permission to goto an open map and kill a free boss from the bigger guilds.


In making this schedule you've effectively set a monopoly and hierarchy of guilds into place, one which promotes just as much greed as a free for all.


The set schedule current has 7 free days, last i check theres over 3k guilds on teva. you can do the math on how well thats going to work.


Free days / Guild raid days have to be claimed in essence you are promoting spot claiming.



Now then show me you're really not biased at all.

You know what i find ironic, no one cared when it was Server raid and anyone was free to go, probably cause you all knew it was for fun. The moment you all here how easy helga has become you want to go and set a schedule and make it the law of the land. Its you're guideline not everyone agrees that this is the best solution or even one worthy of thought.

In summation Helga is the worst idea outspark has had. Lets nerf a 120 boss so badly that groups of people 30 levels lower can kill him daily. Furthermore lets have him still drop weapons with a reduced level limit.

You honestly think helga was supposed to be this easy ? Its designed to be an endgame feature for those that are 120. It should have stayed this way.

Congrats on abusing your popularity to brainwash the ignorant players on teva into believing that might makes right even if its passive aggressive.

Now you got the Hellgait stuffs for you,and still cant shut up.
Or are u gonna barge in into another guild raid and steal their drops?
You KS because you know ur guild is not capable of killing Helga and let other guild lure and tank Helga, and then you just steal their drops.
You are the bad guy here :rolleyes:.

[Kyo_Sama]

comments in bold in quote

...et'al

You dont get it do you ?

This isnt even remotely mannered, mannered would be everyone getting a fair shot not the top 5 guilds, and not when the top 5 guilds deem it appropriate either.

To quote Joker on this Issue
Ahem,

I don't visit these parts of the forums on a regular basis but I do when a CL flags staff or when we become aware of violations.

Please be aware that Outspark Customer Support will action entire guilds if we find they are abusing the rules of the game. We have already issued warnings on Epith about the Helga raid issues, we will be ready to do the same on Teva if this becomes a problem.

Let is be known that we are also going to monitor live some of these raids. Any guilds trying to take advantage of a situation to ruin the experience of others will be severely penalized by a suspension to all members and the deletion of the guild.

This game is for everyone's enjoyment. If anyone is going to abuse the rules and inflict harm on other player's fun and enjoyment then they will suffer the ultimate consequences.

Thank you.

The schedule itself ruins the experience of others whom are trying to do it.

If the game really is for everyone's enjoyment why let the top 5 guilds run things ?

The schedule isnt a rule as set by outspark, no one has to abide by it, again just like TR and corner and room checks.

As for inflicting harm you dont think that if 2 guilds go down there they are both already using SC.

Therefore, By using this schedule you are indeed ruining the gameplay for a majority of players to promote the well being of at maximum 500.

[Kyo_Sama]

Now you got the Hellgait stuffs for you,and still cant shut up.
Or are u gonna barge in into another guild raid and steal their drops?
You KS because you know ur guild is not capable of killing Helga and let other guild lure and tank Helga, and then you just steal their drops.
You are the bad guy here :rolleyes:.


I have the helgait stuff, thats news to me. last i checked i dont even have 1 helgait item.

and as for barging in on raids, your guild did that to ours ;)

we were in there while you were outside sitting in a shroom.

[IroguroMeek]

You dont see said flaw in your statement or plans do you.


For starters Helga has to be killed at a time convenient for the biggest guilds.

The Smaller Groups / Guilds have to ask permission to goto an open map and kill a free boss from the bigger guilds.


In making this schedule you've effectively set a monopoly and hierarchy of guilds into place, one which promotes just as much greed as a free for all.


The set schedule current has 7 free days, last i check theres over 3k guilds on teva. you can do the math on how well thats going to work.


Free days / Guild raid days have to be claimed in essence you are promoting spot claiming.



Now then show me you're really not biased at all.

You know what i find ironic, no one cared when it was Server raid and anyone was free to go, probably cause you all knew it was for fun. The moment you all here how easy helga has become you want to go and set a schedule and make it the law of the land. Its you're guideline not everyone agrees that this is the best solution or even one worthy of thought.

In summation Helga is the worst idea outspark has had. Lets nerf a 120 boss so badly that groups of people 30 levels lower can kill him daily. Furthermore lets have him still drop weapons with a reduced level limit.

You honestly think helga was supposed to be this easy ? Its designed to be an endgame feature for those that are 120. It should have stayed this way.

Congrats on abusing your popularity to brainwash the ignorant players on teva into believing that might makes right even if its passive aggressive.

i do believe you misunderstand what an endgame feature is.

Let me explain this simply, an Endgame feature as with any MMO is content added that serves no real purpose other than to keep people playing while the game is still being produced.

The only purpose there is for helga is bragging rights and weapons, Helga / ToH is no different than PK'ers in the Abyss, or PvP'ers in FBZ's.

You know what is even more ironic? Before guilds were able to kill Helga on their own without the help of the whole server, there were virtually no Server raids. You were lucky to hear or even go to a Server Raid, twice a month at most. ANd most of those ended up in failure. I find it funny how everyone wants a stab at Helga now that people can kill it and say it is unfair.

And also, Helga is only easy because of the massive amount of SC that is used. Take out the SC and you wont find a single group or guild that can kill Helga. So it isn't easy, the availibility of SparkCash makes a lvl 89 have the hp and defense of a lvl 120.

I don't recall being popular. And I certainly dont remember brainwashing anyone.

And my question to you is, how do you know Helga is Fiesta's ingame feature?

[Iffrit]

I have the helgait stuff, thats news to me. last i checked i dont even have 1 helgait item.

and as for barging in on raids, your guild did that to ours ;)

we were in there while you were outside sitting in a shroom.

Your raids? :rolleyes:
Your guild not even reached 1/2 way to Helga.
U should do reality check :cool: and of course stop dreaming to beat Helga on your own :p

[Kyo_Sama]

And my question to you is, how do you know Helga is Fiesta's ingame feature?

Have you seen any quest for it, hell every map thats been input into the game has had quest, all of the ones that dont have been mentioned as they have no quest.

ToH, Any Abyss, FBZ's. No quest = Endgame content

[Kyo_Sama]

Your raids? :rolleyes:
Your guild not even reached 1/2 way to Helga.
U should do reality check :cool: and of course stop dreaming to beat Helga on your own :p

you should refrain from flaming as it doesnt make you look any better.

you think everyone is perfect, trail and error are involved. Your 50 man came in and saw a 5 man trying. Yes we made it passed half way and although you might not think it we can and will beat helga. As far as the schedule goes its still spot claiming, and i really dont care to follow what a group of people say is the best solution when no one (outspark included) has looked into real solutions to remedying the problem with helga.

[Iffrit]

you should refrain from flaming as it doesnt make you look any better.

you think everyone is perfect, trail and error are involved. Your 50 man came in and saw a 5 man trying. Yes we made it passed half way and although you might not think it we can and will beat helga. As far as the schedule goes its still spot claiming, and i really dont care to follow what a group of people say is the best solution when no one (outspark included) has looked into real solutions to remedying the problem with helga.

The one ur guild did doesnt make you look any better too :rolleyes:

[Kyo_Sama]

The one ur guild did doesnt make you look any better too :rolleyes:

Interesting considering its not "my guild" im not an admin, im only a member.

Now then onto my point about your flames not making you look any better.

You're guild has already sent in reports, why dont you take the higher ground and just express your concerns about the schedule not flame others who are actively taking part in a discussion.

[Iffrit]

Ohh thats new lol, so u must be an admin or master to call it as your guild.
Anyway Im done talking with you, seem pointless because u are type of person that cant understand other's situation and all the preparation we did.
Go have fun with ur "own theory" lol :rolleyes:

[Kyo_Sama]

Anyway Im done talking with you, seem pointless because u are type of person that cant understand other's situation and all the preparation we did.


Ill let this one hit you like the ton of bricks that it is.

completely proved my point about big guilds ruling over small guilds / groups and showing no care or concern.

[IroguroMeek]

Okay, so let's say, we trash the schedule. Honestly, what do you guys think will happen without this schedule? Especially in regards to the whole big/small guild thing.

[Celtic_Princess]

Once again, please refrain from flaming your fellow users. This applies to anyone and everyone. If you have something to discuss regarding the schedule (the schedule mind you, and not the raid tonight) please do so in a civil manner.

[mredlodge]

...et'al

You dont get it do you ?

This isnt even remotely mannered, mannered would be everyone getting a fair shot not the top 5 guilds, and not when the top 5 guilds deem it appropriate either.



Ehh, you had plenty of chances to kill him. You claim HVG didn't kill him yesterday and Helga was alive at 1 am cst? is that what you were claiming after the raid? 1 am, 1 pm...whatever. Why didn't you kill him then? You had a fair chance. You also knew we planned to come and kill him at the listed spawn time. We watched you for quite awhile. You even had a fair amount of time today before we got ready. Why didn't you kill him then? Because you can't? Nobody gonna wait around for hours and hours for you to get the job done.

Don't talk to us about getting a fair shot.

[Kyo_Sama]

Okay, so let's say, we trash the schedule. Honestly, what do you guys think will happen without this schedule? Especially in regards to the whole big/small guild thing.

it will become what it should be a free for all for a boss that has a delayed spawn. people will camp the area and play it as intended.

will it cause some people to be unhappy and war, yes. is it different than any other map no.

i already suggested that but people are intent on schedules... dont ask me why, i find the schedule to be meaningless.

that why i posted several suggeestion that could be done, not only by players but by OnOsoft and Outspark.

But everyone wants to go back to todays raid for some stupid reason.

[FuSiOnStealth]

(Trying not to use 'today's raid' as an example and trying not to be inflammatory and kinda a reply to the post above me ^^)

For all the players that have a problem with adopting the scheduling approach to Helga farming, its their right to raid when they please. If a group pulls Helga and is working to kill it, and their raid overlaps a scheduled guild raid, then the scheduled guild looses the given spawn. The burden falls back on guild master, meek, neon to adjust the schedule to accommodate the missed spawn (i.e., the guild that missed out is rescheduled). I'm not speaking to the difficulties in rescheduling, just describing the way it must work. The point is simple, the schedule approach attempts to maximize Helga kills between all participating guilds, but it does not prevent non-participating groups from doing attempting their own raids.

With this in mind, no guild or group of people that wish to kill Helga need be burdened by adopting the scheduled approach and it would seem logical that said groups would have no need to criticize/discredit the schedule approach. If you want to farm Helga, and you don't agree with the way meek and neon are handling it do whats obvious.

I'm not advocating this (l believe what meek/neon have in place is truly the best/most fair way to manage Helga kills), but rather pointing out the obvious. My guess would be once we start down this path, it won't be too long until the scheduled approach is abandoned and we truly do let things work out as they will. However, I think all those people that currently have issues with 'the schedule' will rapidly realize why it was put in place to start with.

Fact of the matter is that once its a free for all with regards to Helga farming, the stronger guilds will 'win'. Not because of politics or GW threats or anything petty like that... No, they will win out because they have more man power and the ability to have to have the right players in the right place to grab Helga and kill Helga. This is no different that any other boss farming in any other dungeon and I'm sure all of us have experienced strong guild monopolizing the bosses (lol well if you haven't ^^ I have and it sucks). Well, maybe there is some difference since Helga is the main boss in the game and the issue of Helga is big news on all 4 servers. The difference would probably be that reportable offenses occurring during the chaos would be more quickly and harshly dealt with by OS... who knows.

Stealthy

[defiant_saim]

it will become what it should be a free for all for a boss that has a delayed spawn. people will camp the area and play it as intended.

will it cause some people to be unhappy and war, yes. is it different than any other map no.

As either approach will cause some people to be unhappy, the most logical choice would be to go for the scheduled approach, as this increases mutual benefit.

I'm starting to get the impression the schedule is being scapegoated here. Some people are unable to kill Helga and hence look for some external excuse, which they find in the schedule. My apologies if this is a wrong impression, but my question on why this schedule would be unfair hasn't been answered as of yet.


i already suggested that but people are intent on schedules... dont ask me why, i find the schedule to be meaningless.
Because the schedule obviously has huge advantages for all parties involved:

- For parties/guilds that can kill Helga, it increases the rate at which they can kill it.
- For parties that want to try and kill Helga it gives them breathing space to organize something without some big guild showing up ruining there carefully organized plans.


that why i posted several suggeestion that could be done, not only by players but by OnOsoft and Outspark.
It's unrealistic to expect any programming solution, by the time it goes into production, I'll already be pwning those helgait users with my orange lvl 105 +10 xbow :cool:

[Kyo_Sama]

(Trying not to use 'today's raid' as an example and trying not to be inflammatory and kinda a reply to the post above me ^^)

Fact of the matter is that once its a free for all with regards to Helga farming, the stronger guilds will 'win'. Not because of politics or GW threats or anything petty like that... No, they will win out because they have more man power and the ability to have to have the right players in the right place to grab Helga and kill Helga. This is no different that any other boss farming in any other dungeon and I'm sure all of us have experienced strong guild monopolizing the bosses (lol well if you haven't ^^ I have and it sucks). Well, maybe there is some difference since Helga is the main boss in the game and the issue of Helga is big news on all 4 servers. The difference would probably be that reportable offenses occurring during the chaos would be more quickly and harshly dealt with by OS... who knows.

Stealthy

If that was truely a fact we wouldnt be having a heated discussion in which certian people think they were robbed.

[legendking3]

If that was truely a fact we wouldnt be having a heated discussion in which certian people think they were robbed.

here lets have a solution, you go by our schedual and try and raid helga on a free day, if it's a success than we will listen to you, until than it's meaningless

[Kyo_Sama]

here lets have a solution, you go by our schedual and try and raid helga on a free day, if it's a success than we will listen to you, until than it's meaningless

Yet again might makes right and denial of game services by the bigger guilds and groups.

Heres a better idea, you take a 5 man team to helga you get 30 minutes. thats it. if you fail you go home forever its deemed open server raid.

Your input is biased because you belong to one of the guilds that has designated raiding days no matter what. How about you try looking at it from the other perspective of being one of the few undersized guilds / groups that actually wants to go do helga when we are all online.

But this schedule as i've pointed out already is glorified spot claiming, pure and simple.

[WinterClown]

- For parties/guilds that can kill Helga, it increases the rate at which they can kill it.
Why is that? One thing we view as unfair.

- For parties that want to try and kill Helga it gives them breathing space to organize something without some big guild showing up ruining there carefully organized plans.
24 hours is well enough to get scrolls/sc. Also it respawns over and over again, so you have multiple chances.

It's unrealistic to expect any programming solution, by the time it goes into production, I'll already be pwning those helgait users with my orange lvl 105 +10 xbow :cool:
My lvl 105+0 NPC wand will overcome (:<


But this schedule as i've pointed out already is glorified spot claiming, pure and simple.
Yep.

WHAT IF a guild pulled helga before the "scheduled guild" got it?
WHAT IF they did that every day?
WHAT IF they got all the drops instead of the "scheduled" guilds.

[defiant_saim]

Yet again might makes right and denial of game services by the bigger guilds and groups.
Which game service was actually denied by that suggestion?


Heres a better idea, you take a 5 man team to helga you get 30 minutes. thats it. if you fail you go home forever its deemed open server raid.

I fail to see the logic in that.


Your input is biased because you belong to one of the guilds that has designated raiding days no matter what. How about you try looking at it from the other perspective of being one of the few undersized guilds / groups that actually wants to go do helga when we are all online.
They actually greatly benefit from the schedule too. If there was no schedule, no "free days", nobody to talk to and make an arrangement with, the undersized guilds/groups simply won't have a chance to ever kill Helga on their own, as every time Helga spawns there would be numerous bigger groups there competing for that spawn.

[defiant_saim]

Why is that? One thing we view as unfair.
It's not unfair, it's an advantage and direct result of working together and hence being able to optimize the amount of times Helga can be killed over a certain amount of time (by any party).


24 hours is well enough to get scrolls/sc. Also it respawns over and over again, so you have multiple chances.

Sorry, but I don't understand your argument :( My point was that if there was no schedule, as soon as you organized your Helga party either Helga would have been dead already, or some big guild would already be waiting in front of the gate till the next spawn time. The schedule actually gives smaller parties the ability to either plan in their raid on a free day or to talk to a guild to trade spots, avoiding the scenario above.


WHAT IF a guild pulled helga before the "scheduled guild" got it?
WHAT IF they did that every day?
WHAT IF they got all the drops instead of the "scheduled" guilds.
I assume this messageboard would be filled with your posts complaining about that guild ;)

[Kyo_Sama]

Which game service was actually denied by that suggestion?


I fail to see the logic in that.


They actually greatly benefit from the schedule too. If there was no schedule, no "free days", nobody to talk to and make an arrangement with, the undersized guilds/groups simply won't have a chance to ever kill Helga on their own, as every time Helga spawns there would be numerous bigger groups there competing for that spawn.

http://www.outspark.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2224870&postcount=168

You fail to see the logic behind said bigger guilds needing less time to kill helga than a smaller guild ?

No, they dont. The schedule is time convenient to the bigger guilds.

ex. this post here http://www.outspark.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2236588&postcount=1026

so tell me just how fair the schedule is again ?

[bithun86]

A Look at how other servers take care of the whole helga issue

Bijou

http://outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194225

Apparently it's the server raid all the time. Nevertheless the whole server is happy and proud about it. Everyone is welcome to join the raid.
Too bad it only lasts for like 45 seconds to 1 min most of the time.
Too good it portrays the server's unity and no such guild difference.

Apoline

http://outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152036
Apoline's helga raid currently is open to all. the only issue about who got the weapon is resolved through the thread wherein people post the hellgait weapons they got.

Epith

Apparently open to all..ends up with huge drama because people don't come together to make it a server wide raid rather bring their guild and allies along. Usually some other enemy guild ruins it all.
reason problems arise: guild difference or player difference or no server unity.
Way to resolve: report to GM in case of training or KSing

Teva

http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195298

the so called helga raid schedule meant to bring an order to the chaos arising similar to that of epith but kinda faulty(points at the rebel thread link below*) sometimes ends up in a failure.
Makes Helga a guild affair.

http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195425

the rebel thread meant to counter the faulty helga raid schedule.

Bottomline

learn from bijou...

Something that was meant to be taken lightly(found it in bijou's ballroom, yes it's real and not a photo shopped one)

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5620/sgkap0.jpg

p.s. well i don't have any characters except lvl 1 or 4 alts in bijou.

[defiant_saim]

[
You fail to see the logic behind said bigger guilds needing less time to kill helga than a smaller guild ?
It's not true, the time it takes for a party to kill Helga depends on many factors. If the amount of available people is the problem, smaller guilds can cooperate. Basically, killing Helga in a timely fashion depends more on the presence of strong skilled players than on the actual number of people involved.


No, they dont. The schedule is time convenient to the bigger guilds.

No, the schedule is created as to maximize the amount of times Helga can be beaten in a certain time period. It has nothing to do with the time guilds actually want available.

[bithun86]

It's not unfair, it's an advantage and direct result of working together and hence being able to optimize the amount of times Helga can be killed over a certain amount of time (by any party).
Incase the whole server works together for the raid, Helga could be killed more faster than you could ever imagine...i think maybe a minute or 2



Sorry, but I don't understand your argument :( My point was that if there was no schedule, as soon as you organized your Helga party either Helga would have been dead already, or some big guild would already be waiting in front of the gate till the next spawn time. The schedule actually gives smaller parties the ability to either plan in their raid on a free day or to talk to a guild to trade spots, avoiding the scenario above.
first of all how many so called small guilds find a spot in the schedule?
secondly, still big guilds take up almost 25 days of a month while the remaining server gets 5 days is that justified?and inorder to get a slot you need to prove your strength first and you can't ally with your really nice friends from the so called guilds in schedule


I assume this messageboard would be filled with your posts complaining about that guild ;)
that's the reason why the thread was started.

[Kyo_Sama]

It's not true, the time it takes for a party to kill Helga depends on many factors. If the amount of available people is the problem, smaller guilds can cooperate. Basically, killing Helga in a timely fashion depends more on the presence of strong skilled players than on the actual number of people involved.


No, the schedule is created as to maximize the amount of times Helga can be beaten in a certain time period. It has nothing to do with the time guilds actually want available.

You've got to be <Removed> kidding me. Numerous factors.

Lets just stick to facts. Fact if you have more players involved helga dies quicker. Fact 5 is less than 50. Fact a Team of 5 will kill helga slower than a team of 50, it doesnt matter the class make up or builds.

Again i've proven with post from actual players that this is just an excuse for them to justify there monopolizing of HT.

[bithun86]

Didn't want to bring up such an old post XD, but couldn't resist the temptation as it was being targeted at me...
Again, as I said, we know we aren't in charge of any of you. To be honest I could care less about what anyone does because I know the rules and can easy hit the Print Screen button and report. Leaving 5 days open a week would cause more problems than you would even want to deal with, and again the stronger guilds would again get all the weapons which therefore leads people back to complaining.
1>Well as per your schedule at times there is a difference of 12 hrs after the helga spawn for the scheduled guild to raid. Incase, helga is killed in that period I don't think you would be complaining or having an issue with it. Because it was fair and there wasn't any violation of ToS
2>I don't see how leaving 5 days a month is solving the problem either the stronger guilds still get all the weapons. Because they end up having 25 days a month.
3>I repeatedly have spoken in favor of the server wide raid wherein the whole server goes on the raid irrespective of guild. The only way such problems will arise is when we bring GUILD into account
As for the issue of the leaving and joining guilds, we are giving everyone an equal opportunity (once again). No one asks anyone to leave their guild and "Oh hey while you're at it join mine".
First of all, outside help is not allowed as per your schedule.
Secondly, me and my wifey(both being capped) have received 8 to 10 invitations to leave our guild and join a bigger guild so that we can take on helga and be a part of the raid.
Thirdly, few of my really good friends from the so called big guilds in the schedule can't join me either in the raid coz by doing so they would be going against the rules of the schedule.
I just find the whole system set up by you guys dividing the whole server on the basis of guilds. Not just that, you even curb the freedom of player and his or her relationship with another player on the basis of guild.

Also I don't believe it's much of ruining the economy, I underprice all my Hellgait weapons and even give some to my friends which ask to remain to be nameless. If people share them throughout big guilds and friends, then I see no honest problem in the economy with them. People can do what they wish of selling their items. It's up to the people that buy them that really set the standards.
How many players in the game are benevolent enough to act the way you do. Neither is it a part of the rules for the guilds who have signed up to be benevolent and helpful to other players in the server.
Every other day i see a helga weapon in a store overpriced and at times selling for gems.

I don't wish to accommodate the other 2000 players considering most of the people who come to free raids aren't even 8x. Maybe when they become a level to actually use them I'll feel for them. A level 6x begging to be in a party which they will get killed anyways is not worthy of an item 30+ levels ahead of them. Including if the stats itself are higher than the users actual level. Again I'm not the law of Fiesta and it's not my job to care about who gets what weapons.
It doesn't matter what you wish or what you don't because you have already stated that you are not the law of fiesta. Secondly, i mentioned that if even 1 player from the 2000 guild is able to take on a kallap and by saying so, i didn't mean what you have interpreted on your part. Morever it was just a theoretical explanation. Thirdly(but most importantly), i find the statements arrogant on your part and demuring for lower level players in the game.

If you didn't hold any grudges then why make a big ol` rant about his supposed method to killing Helga. You do realize NO ONE has to follow it. There is always going to be drama even in an organized method and that cannot be helped no matter which way you put it. Just think of it this way, we are greatly LESSENING what the affect could be. I think you in fact are not understanding what I meant with the miscommunications. The women who we had the tussle with does not naturally speak English so therefore she is not supposed to know everything about the rules. We all apologized and the issue is forgotten about [for the most part].

There is a difference between presenting an argument or a counter argument and holding a grudge.
What you consider as ranting i feel is presentation of my argument or counter argument. Grudge to me would rather be a feeling of hatred or malevolence against certain player in a personal level that would deeply affect our in game relationship and behavior. I don't think i have it against anyone. i.e. i won't deny anyone of buffs, heals or help in anyway in the game be it you or meek or anyone unless and until it is against certain principles that affects in a negative manner.
I just want the whole server to be a family instead of being divided in terms of guilds etc.

Last time I checked, when you do to report someone you do not get a category that is entitled "Guild War Rules". Those rules were made by a GM who was fired.. I think that says it all. When you sign up for Fiesta it does not ask you to read the Guild War Rules created by a GM who was fired, no it asks you to read the TOS and have a general understanding of it.

So according to you the violation of so called obsolete guild war rules won't have any impact in terms of the action taken by OS against the guilds or players who violate the same.
In that case, if possible i'd inquire the same from a more authentic source i.e. the CSRs or GMs. As far as my knowledge is concerned i have seen 2 or 3 guilds get banned because of the reason similar to the violation of the Guild war rules.

Again I have no control over who does what, I can simply tell them that people will be very upset if they intentionally come into Helga's Tomb threatening to ruin their time and KS. That's an easy report and that's the end of the subject. Whatever happens to them is in charge of the CSR team.
Well it would hold good too if a certain group of people make it to helga's tomb before the scheduled guild does and take the first hit. i Don't think the scheduled guild should be complaining.
For about the 20th time, I again am not [as well as anyone] FORCING people to follow the rules. We just suggest it as a better method than all out chaos and tearing us all apart. We are a community and we should act that way instead of a bunch of power hungry idiots.
I highly appreciate the effort you have been and you still are putting into the whole issue, kudos to you guys. But i also find it to be opposing the whole concept of uniting the community or the server rather the only ones who are united are the members of a common guild.

[FuSiOnStealth]

If that was truely a fact we wouldnt be having a heated discussion in which certian people think they were robbed.

No... I think the video of you...erm... loitering around and deciding to wait til the last possible second to start your attack on Helga with complete disregard to the other group that was in the process of killing it is what feeds the recent 'heated discussion' .

As for the point my post was attempting to make, that was simply stating the obvious. If you have trouble seeing the obvious, maybe you should not waste your time trying read my contributions. Otherwise have fun and I hope you enjoy reading them as much as I enjoy writing them ^^

[Kyo_Sama]

No... I think the video of you...erm... loitering around and deciding to wait til the last possible second to start your attack on Helga with complete disregard to the other group that was in the process of killing it is what feeds the recent 'heated discussion' .

As for the point my post was attempting to make, that was simply stating the obvious. If you have trouble seeing the obvious, maybe you should not waste your time trying read my contributions. Otherwise have fun and I hope you enjoy reading them as much as I enjoy writing them ^^

k, whatever. loitering around, waiting till the last possible seconds... from a video that show what again ?

i watched that video quite frankly your accusations are just wrong. Not only that i was dead. so if i waited around your either blind or just want to ramble on cause you feel you got shafted.

On a side note, i love how your saying we were loitering, as if we arent allowed to be on said map. We were there doing a raid. Your group came in the dungeon to do one as well. Simply put we didnt say anything to you, but we recived countless death threats, as seen in your video your guild even was going to war over it, pretty petty. To busy flipping out not enough killing. 50 people lost a drop to 1 fighter.

As an aftermath when your guild leader runs off saying we're a noob guild he may as well say the same for his own since your top 50 couldnt out DPS 1 fighter. Pretty sad IMO.

[FuSiOnStealth]

k, whatever. loitering around, waiting till the last possible seconds... from a video that show what again ?

i watched that video quite frankly your accusations are just wrong. Not only that i was dead. so if i waited around your either blind or just want to ramble on cause you feel you got shafted.


Hi again Kyo_Sama, to each his own with regards to video, I describe your (and you group members) behavior as loitering. You can describe however you like. Others can go look and make their own determination ^^.

As for getting shafted... Not at all ^^. I'm in BIIR silly, not in Milky.


On a side note, i love how your saying we were loitering, as if we arent allowed to be on said map. We were there doing a raid.


Please note that in no way do I imply that loitering means that you 'arent allowed to be on said map'. If you bothered to read/understand any of my posts you'd realize that I'm one of the people that feel that everyone has a right to be on any map (TOH in this case) as long as they adhere to standard game play rules (e.g., no KS'ing, no training, ...).


Your group came in the dungeon to do one as well. Simply put we didnt say anything to you, but we recived countless death threats, as seen in your video your guild even was going to war over it, pretty petty. To busy flipping out not enough killing. 50 people lost a drop to 1 fighter.

If what you say is true, these would be the things you'd report. Again what I saw in the video was a group of players working up the left wall, pulling Helga, taking him back to the gate, and killing it (mostly). I saw no battling over the pull nor over the majority of the battle with Helga. It was clear that the guild that did the pull was in control of the mob and was doing a good job of killing it off.


As an aftermath when your guild leader runs off saying we're a noob guild he may as well say the same for his own since your top 50 couldnt out DPS 1 fighter. Pretty sad IMO.

By the way, its last hit not DPS (where you probably meant total damage), and BIIR has no problem working Helga with two fighter and 3 support people (lol and we manage to do the pull and ALL the damage all by ourselves ^^).

[neonlovesyou]

You've got to be <Removed> kidding me. Numerous factors.

Lets just stick to facts. Fact if you have more players involved helga dies quicker. Fact 5 is less than 50. Fact a Team of 5 will kill helga slower than a team of 50, it doesnt matter the class make up or builds.

Again i've proven with post from actual players that this is just an excuse for them to justify there monopolizing of HT.


Did we not try to kill helga with a HUGE group of people and we failed?

Remember, Quality>Quantity.

Kyo, would you be ranting like you are now if you were in one of the guilds alloted in the slots at the moment?

[toushirou08]

The below comments was from my point of view , sorry for the poor english written and lengthy message. I hope that this msg would not offend anyone and I do not expect people to accept what i have comment but i am now explaining the facts of fairness.

First of all, I would like to comment that THIS IS JUST A GAME. u guys should be sharing the enjoyment of this game and not quarreling over issue.

No one have to right to say that Helga belong to them and come out with the schedule. From my point of view Helga belong to the people of "TEVA". Everyone should have the chance to participate in the raid just like the first time when "TEVA" organise the event . However, it seem that from a "TEVA" Helga event it change into "SPECIFIC Guild" Helga Event.

This "guild" schedule seem very unfair for the others "TEVA" members.
Only the involved enjoy the process and rewards and it defeat the purpose of what you expect when u first start playing a game

Beginning of game:
1) Everyone is Friendly, helpful, sharing.
2) Work as a party to clear KQ making the effort to make sure it does not Fail.
3) Leveling togather and less KSers
4) even when the person accidentally kill the mob u can hear that person apologise.

As the game goes , it is the greed of human that changes everything:

Everyone(Including me) wan a BK +9 weapon , blue weapon , High End armour, More Income, Boss Item +9 .....
that why when the helga weapon was introduce, everyone would like to own one.

Therefore a schedule was introduced to be fair to those specific guild involve. it seem alright and agreed by the minority but how about the opinion of the majority.

Any of you guys wonder, how come there is no one complain about those people who get their blue weapon from KQ treasure box? It is because whoever get it, everyone know that it is FAIR and LUCK.

FAIR = NEUTRAL = SHARING

suggestion only:
Why dun we members of "TEVA" suggested to GM that let Helga become a KQ system and specific number of people participate per day and the reward is in the treasure box.
Reason : To be fair to everyone and promote harmony and not rages.


PS : We are long term members of "TEVA", and we should behave like one , or else everyone start to leave this game because of our own selfish act.
Do we wan A Busy Town? or A GHOST town?

[Kyo_Sama]

Did we not try to kill helga with a HUGE group of people and we failed?

Remember, Quality>Quantity.

Kyo, would you be ranting like you are now if you were in one of the guilds alloted in the slots at the moment?

Yes i would because unike the majority of big the members of the bigger guilds i recognize the major flaws with this system.

On the same token you would be complaining to if it wasnt your idea and it unjustly shafted you of ingame fun.

[neonlovesyou]

The below comments was from my point of view , sorry for the poor english written and lengthy message. I hope that this msg would not offend anyone and I do not expect people to accept what i have comment but i am now explaining the facts of fairness.

First of all, I would like to comment that THIS IS JUST A GAME. u guys should be sharing the enjoyment of this game and not quarreling over issue.

No one have to right to say that Helga belong to them and come out with the schedule. From my point of view Helga belong to the people of "TEVA". Everyone should have the chance to participate in the raid just like the first time when "TEVA" organise the event . However, it seem that from a "TEVA" Helga event it change into "SPECIFIC Guild" Helga Event.

This "guild" schedule seem very unfair for the others "TEVA" members.
Only the involved enjoy the process and rewards and it defeat the purpose of what you expect when u first start playing a game

Beginning of game:
1) Everyone is Friendly, helpful, sharing.
2) Work as a party to clear KQ making the effort to make sure it does not Fail.
3) Leveling togather and less KSers
4) even when the person accidentally kill the mob u can hear that person apologise.

As the game goes , it is the greed of human that changes everything:

Everyone(Including me) wan a BK +9 weapon , blue weapon , High End armour, More Income, Boss Item +9 .....
that why when the helga weapon was introduce, everyone would like to own one.

Therefore a schedule was introduced to be fair to those specific guild involve. it seem alright and agreed by the minority but how about the opinion of the majority.

Any of you guys wonder, how come there is no one complain about those people who get their blue weapon from KQ treasure box? It is because whoever get it, everyone know that it is FAIR and LUCK.

FAIR = NEUTRAL = SHARING

suggestion only:
Why dun we members of "TEVA" suggested to GM that let Helga become a KQ system and specific number of people participate per day and the reward is in the treasure box.
Reason : To be fair to everyone and promote harmony and not rages.


PS : We are long term members of "TEVA", and we should behave like one , or else everyone start to leave this game because of our own selfish act.
Do we wan A Busy Town? or A GHOST town?


Sorry but in my opinion O.o the majority agree on this.


Would you have preferred the constant cussing,warring,ToS Violations that happened when helga was being killed via Server Raid only? The Drama was FAR too much. Maybe it would have been for some people "fairer" but they have LESS chance at getting weapons. Which is what everyone wants correct?

[neonlovesyou]

Yes i would because unike the majority of big the members of the bigger guilds i recognize the major flaws with this system.

On the same token you would be complaining to if it wasnt your idea and it unjustly shafted you of ingame fun.

I was one of the people who came up with the idea, and the guild I am, cannot kill helga(Unless by some luck we have a lot of members on, which barely happens). Did you see me complaining? No.


The true of the matter is, we CANNOT make something, thats perfect for everyone, because that does not exist, nothing is perfect. But we did had to make something that the majority agreed on, and little by little keep improving our idea so it can get better.

Would you have preferred for this schedule NOT to have be made, and that the constant drama about who was gonna kill helga kept happening?

[Celtic_Princess]

The situation that occured between the two groups present at the raid yesterday is between them and Outspark, please do not discuss it here. I ask this because to do so would result in flames, where it is quickly heading now.

I say once again, whether you agree with the schedule or not please keep your comments civil to one another. The GW rules that were posted by Dakkon are the property of Outspark and as such are still in effect.

To quote an earlier post I made:

Now, I can understand why some people are in support of this schedule and some are not. However, I cannot understand why instead of coming to a solution that pleases everyone it has, in a number of threads now, been reduced to flaming.

This game was my first MMORPG, and as such Teva feels like home. I have a strong attachment to it and I would prefer that it didn't get ripped apart over the allocation of a single, in demand mob. Personally, I'm proud that this server has come so far as to even try to create a peaceful solution...I'd be thrilled if we managed to work together to come up with a peaceful solution that works for everyone.


I don't know how many of you are starting to see this but friends are becoming enemies over a mob. A single set of pixels that has come to dominate everyones time ig.

Now whether or not you agree with the idea of the schedule, you must recognize that at least someone is trying to make a system that is peaceful. Yes, it has flaws. Kindly point them out and find a way to work around them instead of berating your fellow users and making enemies out of friends. Its simple to point out the flaws in a system:

Cons of the Schedule:
-More difficult for those in other time zones to participate
-Friends can't raid with friends due to 'player rules'
-Large guilds seem to dominate the schedule
-Large guilds are 'excluding' others (individuals) who want to participate. In all honesty this does seem like its heading towards spot claiming.

Solutions to those problems:
-Helga respawns after main. every Tuesday night, Helga could be killed at different times each week to accomodate different time zones
-f you're invited to a raid, you're invited. Regardless of who's where on the schedule.
-Large guilds take 1 or 2 raid dates each month, the rest is left open for anyone and everyone to participate in should they choose to.
-If someone wants to participate, let them.

Cons to the "Free For All Approach":
-Warring (its not allowed, but that doesn't seem to be stopping anyone)
-Arguments over who gets what drop
-Large guilds still have the higher chance of getting all the drops. More people at the raid=more chances to get last hit.
-Less organized. More people=more accidental pulls, more lag, etc.

Solutions to the "Free For All Approach":
-No one should be warring over the spot, or for revenge. 'nuff said.
-I can honestly think of a 'fair' way to distribute drops. If the same people keep getting last hit does it suddenly become 'unfair'?
-This is pretty much luck
-Find someone willing to organize regular server raids, and hope everyone listens.

If you all can think of better ways to solve these problems lets hear them. Change doesn't happen by sitting back and complaining about it, change happens by standing up and doing something about it. So lets hear some suggestions. This is your server, and your chance to make it better. So come on Teva, pull it together.

[Kyo_Sama]

I was one of the people who came up with the idea, and the guild I am, cannot kill helga(Unless by some luck we have a lot of members on, which barely happens). Did you see me complaining? No.


The true of the matter is, we CANNOT make something, thats perfect for everyone, because that does not exist, nothing is perfect. But we did had to make something that the majority agreed on, and little by little keep improving our idea so it can get better.

Would you have preferred for this schedule NOT to have be made, and that the constant drama about who was gonna kill helga kept happening?

Yes honestly, the schedule should have never been made, OS support should be forced to do their job when necessary. Its not the players jobs to create rules its the GM's, the only responsibility a player has is to abide by the rules.

[neonlovesyou]

The situation that occured between the two groups present at the raid yesterday is between them and Outspark, please do not discuss it here. I ask this because to do so would result in flames, where it is quickly heading now.

I say once again, whether you agree with the schedule or not please keep your comments civil to one another. The GW rules that were posted by Dakkon are the property of Outspark and as such are still in effect.

To quote an earlier post I made:


I don't know how many of you are starting to see this but friends are becoming enemies over a mob. A single set of pixels that has come to dominate everyones time ig.

Now whether or not you agree with the idea of the schedule, you must recognize that at least someone is trying to make a system that is peaceful. Yes, it has flaws. Kindly point them out and find a way to work around them instead of berating your fellow users and making enemies out of friends. Its simple to point out the flaws in a system:

Cons of the Schedule:
-More difficult for those in other time zones to participate
-Friends can't raid with friends due to 'player rules'
-Large guilds seem to dominate the schedule
-Large guilds are 'excluding' others (individuals) who want to participate. In all honesty this does seem like its heading towards spot claiming.

Solutions to those problems:
-Helga respawns after main. every Tuesday night, Helga could be killed at different times each week to accomodate different time zones
-f you're invited to a raid, you're invited. Regardless of who's where on the schedule.
-Large guilds take 1 or 2 raid dates each month, the rest is left open for anyone and everyone to participate in should they choose to.
-If someone wants to participate, let them.

Cons to the "Free For All Approach":
-Warring (its not allowed, but that doesn't seem to be stopping anyone)
-Arguments over who gets what drop
-Large guilds still have the higher chance of getting all the drops. More people at the raid=more chances to get last hit.
-Less organized. More people=more accidental pulls, more lag, etc.

Solutions to the "Free For All Approach":
-No one should be warring over the spot, or for revenge. 'nuff said.
-I can honestly think of a 'fair' way to distribute drops. If the same people keep getting last hit does it suddenly become 'unfair'?
-This is pretty much luck
-Find someone willing to organize regular server raids, and hope everyone listens.

If you all can think of better ways to solve these problems lets hear them. Change doesn't happen by sitting back and complaining about it, change happens by standing up and doing something about it. So lets hear some suggestions. This is your server, and your chance to make it better. So come on Teva, pull it together.



Amen to that kat D:

In other words, nothing can be perfect. People complained when they did server raids, that only the party that the main tanker(or tankers) were always getting the last hit/hence they get the weps.

Then people would complain that the same people are getting the weps, which would be WORSE right?

Now everyone has a fair outright chance to get helga weps. There are some that they are in (little guilds). Just ask someone if you could attend or get a spot and done. Complaining will not get you nowhere really. And, when people are saying that "the majority" dont like this schedule, they are wrong.
Don't talk for other people, talk for yourself.

I, myself think there are some flaws in the schedule, but its the closest thing to good we've got at the moment. It surprises me, and like in everything in the worlds, it applies here. For example, when a President is elected, people will always complain about the things he does, and that will happen each and every time. 100% of the people will NOT agree on the same thing.

[neonlovesyou]

Yes honestly, the schedule should have never been made, OS support should be forced to do their job when necessary. Its not the players jobs to create rules its the GM's, the only responsibility a player has is to abide by the rules.

They already made the rules.

And if you have not noticed, Outspark has let it for us, to solve this on our own. And let it get to your head, these are not RULES, they are merely rules that are suggested. Will you get banned if you break them? No. You are free to do whatever you want, now, if in the process you break one of the rules of the ToS then that's Outspark's move to do something about it.


Think of it as a democracy.

[toushirou08]

i am not pointing out to the organiser of the scehdule of this helga event.

If i have offended you all , please accept my apologise.

What i am referring to in my last msg is to let everyone have a chances to participate in the event and not restricted to approval or anything because no one own Helga.

Majority refer to the rest of TEVA.

From another point of view, for this drama issue, is it very important to let everyone enjoy the game or restrict them from enjoying ?

This is a game. it sound too politic like controlling and restrain . should this be happening ?

[King_Obito]

Didn't want to bring up such an old post XD, but couldn't resist the temptation as it was being targeted at me...

1>Well as per your schedule at times there is a difference of 12 hrs after the helga spawn for the scheduled guild to raid. Incase, helga is killed in that period I don't think you would be complaining or having an issue with it. Because it was fair and there wasn't any violation of ToS
2>I don't see how leaving 5 days a month is solving the problem either the stronger guilds still get all the weapons. Because they end up having 25 days a month.
3>I repeatedly have spoken in favor of the server wide raid wherein the whole server goes on the raid irrespective of guild. The only way such problems will arise is when we bring GUILD into account

First of all, outside help is not allowed as per your schedule.
Secondly, me and my wifey(both being capped) have received 8 to 10 invitations to leave our guild and join a bigger guild so that we can take on helga and be a part of the raid.
Thirdly, few of my really good friends from the so called big guilds in the schedule can't join me either in the raid coz by doing so they would be going against the rules of the schedule.
I just find the whole system set up by you guys dividing the whole server on the basis of guilds. Not just that, you even curb the freedom of player and his or her relationship with another player on the basis of guild.


How many players in the game are benevolent enough to act the way you do. Neither is it a part of the rules for the guilds who have signed up to be benevolent and helpful to other players in the server.
Every other day i see a helga weapon in a store overpriced and at times selling for gems.


It doesn't matter what you wish or what you don't because you have already stated that you are not the law of fiesta. Secondly, i mentioned that if even 1 player from the 2000 guild is able to take on a kallap and by saying so, i didn't mean what you have interpreted on your part. Morever it was just a theoretical explanation. Thirdly(but most importantly), i find the statements arrogant on your part and demuring for lower level players in the game.



There is a difference between presenting an argument or a counter argument and holding a grudge.
What you consider as ranting i feel is presentation of my argument or counter argument. Grudge to me would rather be a feeling of hatred or malevolence against certain player in a personal level that would deeply affect our in game relationship and behavior. I don't think i have it against anyone. i.e. i won't deny anyone of buffs, heals or help in anyway in the game be it you or meek or anyone unless and until it is against certain principles that affects in a negative manner.
I just want the whole server to be a family instead of being divided in terms of guilds etc.



So according to you the violation of so called obsolete guild war rules won't have any impact in terms of the action taken by OS against the guilds or players who violate the same.
In that case, if possible i'd inquire the same from a more authentic source i.e. the CSRs or GMs. As far as my knowledge is concerned i have seen 2 or 3 guilds get banned because of the reason similar to the violation of the Guild war rules.


Well it would hold good too if a certain group of people make it to helga's tomb before the scheduled guild does and take the first hit. i Don't think the scheduled guild should be complaining.

I highly appreciate the effort you have been and you still are putting into the whole issue, kudos to you guys. But i also find it to be opposing the whole concept of uniting the community or the server rather the only ones who are united are the members of a common guild. [/SIZE]

I've wasted my time reading your wall of text like 3 times now. When you have a new argument instead of rewording the same things you said last time, then reply back to me.

[neonlovesyou]

i am not pointing out to the organiser of the scehdule of this helga event.

If i have offended you all , please accept my apologise.

What i am referring to in my last msg is to let everyone have a chances to participate in the event and not restricted to approval or anything because no one own Helga.

Majority refer to the rest of TEVA.

From another point of view, for this drama issue, is it very important to let everyone enjoy the game or restrict them from enjoying ?

This is a game. it sound too politic like controlling and restrain . should this be happening ?

Would you enjoy it with daily drama?

[Kyo_Sama]

Now everyone has a fair outright chance to get helga weps. There are some that they are in (little guilds). Just ask someone if you could attend or get a spot and done. Complaining will not get you nowhere really. And, when people are saying that "the majority" dont like this schedule, they are wrong.
Don't talk for other people, talk for yourself.

I, myself think there are some flaws in the schedule, but its the closest thing to good we've got at the moment. It surprises me, and like in everything in the worlds, it applies here. For example, when a President is elected, people will always complain about the things he does, and that will happen each and every time. 100% of the people will NOT agree on the same thing.

IF eveyone had a fair outright chance, the schedule would be perfect, as you yourself have stated nothing is perfect, Furthmore you acknowledge flaws. Thefore its safe to say not everyone has a fair outright chance.

But to each there own, your project your vested intrested to watch it flourish.

I've offered solutions but no one seems to read that, solution get offered its right back to lets praise the high and might schedule for it is god.

[Kyo_Sama]

Would you enjoy it with daily drama?

We wont know unless we have daily drama. My vote yes.

[King_Obito]

We wont know unless we have daily drama. My vote yes.

We already had daily drama. You are the biggest hypocrite too btw, you say Milky was spot claiming, would you like me to go back through your posts where you clearly stated something like "We were in the Tomb before Milky even stepped foot into it".

[neonlovesyou]

We wont know unless we have daily drama. My vote yes.

Uhh... where you even here when people started doing server raids?

People were making "secret" raids, and sometimes, 2 guilds planned to do raids at the same time. Guild[A] warred Guild[B] on a alt guild just so other people could not heal them and to just plain bother them.

That's just one of the things that happened.


Unless you are a drama lover, you wouldn't like that now would you?

[Celtic_Princess]

IF eveyone had a fair outright chance, the schedule would be perfect, as you yourself have stated nothing is perfect, Furthmore you acknowledge flaws. Thefore its safe to say not everyone has a fair outright chance.

But to each there own, your project your vested intrested to watch it flourish.

I've offered solutions but no one seems to read that, solution get offered its right back to lets praise the high and might schedule for it is god.

The only solution I have seen you propose is that it revert back to an all out server raid. Which, for all intensive purposes can be done now. I've noted some flaws in that suggestion as well as with the schedule. If you have posted something else, I must have missed it. Could you please repost it so that we can read it over again?

To be honest, it seems that everyone here is open to hearing suggestions as to how the situation should be handled but between all the insults flying from both sides no ones ideas are being heard. Like the old saying goes "you get more flies with honey".

Perhaps if we can all set aside the personal dramas, we can focus on how to make this fair for everyone. This not referring to the schedule but to the sharing of Helga.

[Nipah]

duhhramaaaa~

[toushirou08]

you wan to be in the helga raid and you got to prepare what is the worst situation.

Just enjoy. whether win or not? it is the process of enjoying the GAME.

Last sun raid was an example. yes, there are a lot of choas and drama but did we manage to kill helga? Yes! and so let the drama flow and our gaming life will be more interesting rather than just grind and grind and grind

Isn't this thread already show that there a drama going on and u have to reply to so many thread . why not sit down relax and enjoy the drama ??

[bithun86]

The situation that occured between the two groups present at the raid yesterday is between them and Outspark, please do not discuss it here. I ask this because to do so would result in flames, where it is quickly heading now.

I say once again, whether you agree with the schedule or not please keep your comments civil to one another. The GW rules that were posted by Dakkon are the property of Outspark and as such are still in effect.

To quote an earlier post I made:


I don't know how many of you are starting to see this but friends are becoming enemies over a mob. A single set of pixels that has come to dominate everyones time ig.

Now whether or not you agree with the idea of the schedule, you must recognize that at least someone is trying to make a system that is peaceful. Yes, it has flaws. Kindly point them out and find a way to work around them instead of berating your fellow users and making enemies out of friends. Its simple to point out the flaws in a system:

Cons of the Schedule:
-More difficult for those in other time zones to participate
-Friends can't raid with friends due to 'player rules'
-Large guilds seem to dominate the schedule
-Large guilds are 'excluding' others (individuals) who want to participate. In all honesty this does seem like its heading towards spot claiming.

Solutions to those problems:
-Helga respawns after main. every Tuesday night, Helga could be killed at different times each week to accomodate different time zones
-f you're invited to a raid, you're invited. Regardless of who's where on the schedule.
-Large guilds take 1 or 2 raid dates each month, the rest is left open for anyone and everyone to participate in should they choose to.
-If someone wants to participate, let them.

Cons to the "Free For All Approach":
-Warring (its not allowed, but that doesn't seem to be stopping anyone)
-Arguments over who gets what drop
-Large guilds still have the higher chance of getting all the drops. More people at the raid=more chances to get last hit.
-Less organized. More people=more accidental pulls, more lag, etc.

Solutions to the "Free For All Approach":
-No one should be warring over the spot, or for revenge. 'nuff said.
-I can honestly think of a 'fair' way to distribute drops. If the same people keep getting last hit does it suddenly become 'unfair'?
-This is pretty much luck
-Find someone willing to organize regular server raids, and hope everyone listens.

If you all can think of better ways to solve these problems lets hear them. Change doesn't happen by sitting back and complaining about it, change happens by standing up and doing something about it. So lets hear some suggestions. This is your server, and your chance to make it better. So come on Teva, pull it together.



lol i'll present a simple solution that outspark can take up ( from my other thread)
1> the helga respawn time is reduced to half an hr O_O
result - a>helga drops are no longer rare..so they won't be priced too high either
b>people loose interest in helga O.o
c>the notion that people would be fighting over it still won't hold good because noone will be getting charmed every half n hr just for killing helga whose drops are really common O_O

2> the helga drops are rarest(most of the times they don't even drop)
people loose interest in helga though the price of the already available hellgait weapons touch sky O_O


3> outspark comes of with an all new awesomeness, more smexy monster...everyone runs over to kill it leaving helga(bah helga sux...xxxxx monster rocks XD)..leading to an evolution of a new soap opera(with future potential of drama, flames etc.) feat the all new smexy awesome monster :3

[King_Obito]

you wan to be in the helga raid and you got to prepare what is the worst situation.

Just enjoy. whether win or not? it is the process of enjoying the GAME.

Last sun raid was an example. yes, there are a lot of choas and drama but did we manage to kill helga? Yes! and so let the drama flow and our gaming life will be more interesting rather than just grind and grind and grind

Isn't this thread already show that there a drama going on and u have to reply to so many thread . why not sit down relax and enjoy the drama ??

Because not all of us a pessimists who like drama. Also we've had plenty of server raids and the main guilds (MA, BIIR, and HVG) always get the drops so isn't that still unfair for the server raids?

[Kyo_Sama]

We already had daily drama. You are the biggest hypocrite too btw, you say Milky was spot claiming, would you like me to go back through your posts where you clearly stated something like "We were in the Tomb before Milky even stepped foot into it".

And you arent a hypocrite yourself ?

And ill do you one better than that
the post you're refering to http://outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2247462#post2247462

B][R post http://www.outspark.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2236588&postcount=1026

Now then the summation that draws the post together

http://outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2247305#post2247305
http://outspark.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2247566&postcount=37

Personal agendas and biases blind your judgment. But yet Im totally a hypocrite for pointing out all of the flaws. Pot / Kettle much ?

[neonlovesyou]

lol i'll present a simple solution that outspark can take up ( from my other thread)
1> the helga respawn time is reduced to half an hr O_O
result - a>helga drops are no longer rare..so they won't be priced too high either
b>people loose interest in helga O.o
c>the notion that people would be fighting over it still won't hold good because noone will be getting charmed every half n hr just for killing helga whose drops are really common O_O

2> the helga drops are rarest(most of the times they don't even drop)
people loose interest in helga though the price of the already available hellgait weapons touch sky O_O


3> outspark comes of with an all new awesomeness, more smexy monster...everyone runs over to kill it leaving helga(bah helga sux...xxxxx monster rocks XD)..leading to an evolution of a new soap opera(with future potential of drama, flames etc.) feat the all new smexy awesome monster :3


And that monster will be named Olga.

[bithun86]

I've wasted my time reading your wall of text like 3 times now. When you have a new argument instead of rewording the same things you said last time, then reply back to me.

lmao i reworded the whole thing because no matter what i write/post you are never able to understand or interpret the same...try reading it few more time it might make sense :P
and if you still don't want to waste your time...i won't force you either

[defiant_saim]

Incase the whole server works together for the raid, Helga could be killed more faster than you could ever imagine...i think maybe a minute or 2
Sorry, but you're not getting my point :( The time it takes to kill Helga is irrelevant, I was talking about the number of times Helga can be killed per period of time. To give an example:

- without the schedule, Helga can be killed 4 times a week
- with the schedule, Helga can be killed 7 times a week

This means that with the schedule, on a weekly basis, 3 more parties would be able to get their Helga drops. It's a mutual benefit.


first of all how many so called small guilds find a spot in the schedule?

All can find a spot in the schedule.


secondly, still big guilds take up almost 25 days of a month while the remaining server gets 5 days is that justified?

You have the misconception that the schedule is static. The schedule is about dividing the time between the parties that can kill Helga, if more parties can kill Helga, the schedule is changed. Everybody is fine about the idea of adding more free days, but what is the purpose of adding more free days when the interest for the current free days is so very small?


and inorder to get a slot you need to prove your strength first and you can't ally with your really nice friends from the so called guilds in schedule
That's also a disadvantage for the members in those guilds. And this rule is implemented to avoid guild abuse, ironically the very thing you are complaining about.

[King_Obito]

And you arent a hypocrite yourself ?

And ill do you one better than that
the post you're refering to http://outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2247462#post2247462

B][R post http://www.outspark.com/forums/showp...postcount=1026

Now then the summation that draws the post together

http://outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2247305#post2247305
http://outspark.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2247566&postcount=37

Personal agendas and biases blind your judgment. But yet Im totally a hypocrite for pointing out all of the flaws. Pot / Kettle much ?

First of all one of your links doesn't even work. Second I don't see the point in your ranting and battering on people. Lastly.. do those links even make sense? I read them about 5 times now and I don't see the point in you providing those links. Even when I read the posts from the thread you made I didn't see the point, it's just you whining for no apparent reason.

[toushirou08]

from the start to the end of the message that i have send,
i have been saying that u guys should let us enjoy the game and who care whether we get the item or not ? it really depend on our luck. i have been playing 2 years in the game not even a rumen ring drop for my character . The person who got the ring of isya. Dun u think he/she is lucky?
btw sorry for any inconvenience/misunderstanding/misleading/annoying that i have caused throughout my message.

very appreaciate that u guys reply . Thank you very much.

[Kyo_Sama]

First of all one of your links doesn't even work. Second I don't see the point in your ranting and battering on people. Lastly.. do those links even make sense? I read them about 5 times now and I don't see the point in you providing those links. Even when I read the posts from the thread you made I didn't see the point, it's just you whining for no apparent reason.
The original post has the working links now. go read and tell me your not monopolizing in game content with the schedule as it currently stands

[Kyo_Sama]

The only solution I have seen you propose is that it revert back to an all out server raid. Which, for all intensive purposes can be done now. I've noted some flaws in that suggestion as well as with the schedule. If you have posted something else, I must have missed it. Could you please repost it so that we can read it over again?

To be honest, it seems that everyone here is open to hearing suggestions as to how the situation should be handled but between all the insults flying from both sides no ones ideas are being heard. Like the old saying goes "you get more flies with honey".

Perhaps if we can all set aside the personal dramas, we can focus on how to make this fair for everyone. This not referring to the schedule but to the sharing of Helga.


And since you asked, this will be the 3rd time its been posted, whether they be player solutions or not they are feasable solutions.

http://outspark.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2247258&postcount=11

My biggest complaint is players trying to become GM's here and tell others how to play, when to play. If anything needs to be done its more GM intervention and interaction. These issues would be alot less frequent that way.

[King_Obito]

The original post has the working links now. go read and tell me your not monopolizing in game content with the schedule as it currently stands

Okay? So.. the post shows that Helga is respawning at 2:40am.. and? How in the hell does that prove that anything?

[Kyo_Sama]

Okay? So.. the post shows that Helga is respawning at 2:40am.. and? How in the hell does that prove that anything?


Wow you are a dense one. I think ill refrain from discourse with you from here on out since you obviously didnt take the time to read or analyze anything.

[TheRealSasukeUchiha]

you are just now figuring this out ._.

as you can clearly see, she wants to defend the schedule because she gets whatever drops she wants and sells freely not keeping a guild storage like i saw HVG do. please correct me if im wrong. But she said "why not just keep them" seems to me she is defending the schedule off of greed ;o

[Celtic_Princess]

Stop arguing please, its accomplishing nothing more than users leaving the thread with bad feelings toward each other.

Kyo- I like the idea of perhaps suggestions 2/3 combined. However, making it an instance dungeon would take time as it would require Outspark to get approval from OnsOn to change their programming. Also, perhaps a shorter cooldown, like 2 weeks would be more acceptable. I feel that putting a cooldown on guilds would result in players 'guild hopping'.

Tbh, I'd like to see it become an instance dungeon. I'd also like to see accept/deny on wars so that warring for revenge or for spot claiming becomes completely negated.

[TheRealSasukeUchiha]

i dont remember there being this much trouble when we had server raids regularly. you can say this was a potential solution, but its clearly not a solution. I am really tired of seeing the same thing about "meek and neon worked so hard" hard work isnt the issue... i can work all day all night on something that is wrong. does that make it right? and the majority of people are ok with this? not even a nearly accurate statement

[thedark17]

i dont remember there being this much trouble when we had server raids regularly. you can say this was a potential solution, but its clearly not a solution. I am really tired of seeing the same thing about "meek and neon worked so hard" hard work isnt the issue... i can work all day all night on something that is wrong. does that make it right? and the majority of people are ok with this? not even a nearly accurate statement

It's a matter of being polite, they did work hard and should be recognized for what they did.

Even if their solution is causing "problems".

[The_Mafioso]

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/4/14/128842068015705428.jpg

ahem >.>
i feel bad for the op since....it was his/her wish for this not to turn into flame...

[Kyo_Sama]

It's a matter of being polite, they did work hard and should be recognized for what they did.

Even if their solution is causing "problems".

Then instead of being defensive when people post criticism of their "Hard Work"
they should listen step back look at it as if they were a 3rd party not involved in either side of the issue. Instead both Meek and Neon absolutely refuse to proper acknowledge that there plan has several short comming that need to be fixed, and when they question why you cant do it there way and you give them legitimate reasons your instantly outcast by those who the schedule blatantly favor.

Here's to them for doing hard work.

As a Professor of mine said. "Work smarter not harder" - Ron Carswell as quoted in Forbes magazine.

[neonlovesyou]

Then instead of being defensive when people post criticism of their "Hard Work"
they should listen step back look at it as if they were a 3rd party not involved in either side of the issue. Instead both Meek and Neon absolutely refuse to proper acknowledge that there plan has several short comming that need to be fixed, and when they question why you cant do it there way and you give them legitimate reasons your instantly outcast by those who the schedule blatantly favor.

Here's to them for doing hard work.

As a Professor of mine said. "Work smarter not harder" - Ron Carswell as quoted in Forbes magazine.

Sigh, you obviously havent been since day 1 when this started.

Meek and me said we were OPEN to ANY suggestion to make this IDEA better. WE BOTH know this IDEA has FLAWS.

And I don't think you never answered me. You said that we have NOT tried the idea of server raiding everyday, because you have not seen the "daily" drama. Well, just so ya know, this idea was made on consequence of all the drama that was happening. A lot of people wanted something DIFFERENT to happen.


Have you ever heard the term, if it ain't broke don't fix it? Turn it the OTHER way around, if its broke, fix it (:

[sa-pharrah]

God this is so retarded why aren't the GM's stopping this BS. Since when did Meek and Neon become part of Outspark staff to be running the game. Everytime there is a raid I'm asked to quit my guild and join why should I have to leave my lil ones and join another Guild to help out. Schedule guild day give me a break if I was a fighter instead of a cleric I'd sooooo go in and kill it everyday with an outrside party. Any capped fighter out there in need of a capped cleric I'm all yours I say we form server parties all guilds welcome cuz this is BS!! What's next ohhh mighty Meek no one allowed in TR cuz you have a lower leveled player and want all the drops there too why not GHS and the abyss while your at it. This whole thing is stupid it's spot claiming and it's against the rules simple as that I don't care how long it took to put together it's wrong. So you can take your schedule and shove it I'll help anyone that wants to raid on any given day without leaving my guild thank you very much.

[mredlodge]

Well, i've had enough of this. Let's try a week of server raids open to everyone. We cram all 500 of us on the schedule already at the gate and wait for the others to pull Helga to us. There's no such thing as Ks'ing Helga anyways, right?

Let's give it a try.










.

[neonlovesyou]

God this is so retarded why aren't the GM's stopping this BS. Since when did Meek and Neon become part of Outspark staff to be running the game. Everytime there is a raid I'm asked to quit my guild and join why should I have to leave my lil ones and join another Guild to help out. Schedule guild day give me a break if I was a fighter instead of a cleric I'd sooooo go in and kill it everyday with an outrside party. Any capped fighter out there in need of a capped cleric I'm all yours I say we form server parties all guilds welcome cuz this is BS!! What's next ohhh mighty Meek no one allowed in TR cuz you have a lower leveled player and want all the drops there too why not GHS and the abyss while your at it. This whole thing is stupid it's spot claiming and it's against the rules simple as that I don't care how long it took to put together it's wrong. So you can take your schedule and shove it I'll help anyone that wants to raid on any given day without leaving my guild thank you very much.

First, Please control your language, whoever you are. Second, we are NOT running the game, would you please read before opening your mouth? Thank You. Second, the schedule was merely a SUGGESTION for all teva to choose, and most of them AGREED with the idea, so we put it into play.


Who said you need to leave your guild? You don't have to leave your guild =/ You can join other raids if you wst, Please control your language, whoever you are. Second, we are NOT running the game, would you please read before opening your mouth? Thank You. Second, the schedule was merely a SUGGESTION for all teva to choose, and most of them AGREED with the idea, so we put it into play.


Who said you need to leave your guild? You don't have to leave your guild =/ You can join other raids if you wish without leaving your guild.

I think meek and I left that very clear to everyone, now if you have not read everything, then get your facts straight, and come back to me.ish without leaving your guild.

I think meek and I left that very clear to everyone, now if you have not read everything, then get your facts straight, and come back to me.

[neonlovesyou]

Well, i've had enough of this. Let's try a week of server raids open to everyone. We cram all 500 of us on the schedule already at the gate and wait for the others to pull Helga to us. There's no such thing as Ks'ing Helga anyways, right?

Let's give it a try.




.

Lol yea, we can do that since SOME people hate the schedule.


Then they'll prolly say they arent distributing the weps properly(Like it has happened before) And people will still be complaining.

Lol...sometimes people don't view the whole picture, they just point out the damn flaws.

But lol yea I like the idea, and I'm so gonna bish at the people who complain if we do that xD

[boomdude111]

The flaming is becoming ridiculous people. Look, if you are gonna criticize the schedule, then at least do it nicely please, no reason to just flat out bash it and use foul language. And blaming Meek and Neon.....not their fault, they offered a solution, never said it was perfect. Whether you want to admit it or not, the idea of the schedule worked, guilds/parties are getting on the schedule, they are killing Helga, and we are fighting over it like all the other servers. Til now...

You all want a server raid cause you want weapons right? Well first off I say stop being greedy, cap is about to raise and there will be more Hellgaits then any server can handle, thus making them non important in the first place. And second, ok, think about it, you want a server raid right? Guess what that means, every big guild you don't want there, will be there, every day, and they are bigger guilds so they will have more people, more people means better chance of actually getting drops(50+people, could in reality be hundreds. with 2 drops, you do the math lol) and decreasing your chances. But you know what, for now, I could care less about Helga, gotten no drops, never wanted any, cause stuff like this happens. Cap is gonna raise, i've never raced so i'll be workin on that. Have fun, go all out server raid everyday, when you get no drops maybe you'll see both sides and not just bash one.

EDIT: Isis, I must admit, I saw that pic and just laughed lol

[Marck]

God this is so retarded why aren't the GM's stopping this BS. Since when did Meek and Neon become part of Outspark staff to be running the game. Everytime there is a raid I'm asked to quit my guild and join why should I have to leave my lil ones and join another Guild to help out. Schedule guild day give me a break if I was a fighter instead of a cleric I'd sooooo go in and kill it everyday with an outrside party. Any capped fighter out there in need of a capped cleric I'm all yours I say we form server parties all guilds welcome cuz this is BS!! What's next ohhh mighty Meek no one allowed in TR cuz you have a lower leveled player and want all the drops there too why not GHS and the abyss while your at it. This whole thing is stupid it's spot claiming and it's against the rules simple as that I don't care how long it took to put together it's wrong. So you can take your schedule and shove it I'll help anyone that wants to raid on any given day without leaving my guild thank you very much.

u could say your opinion not talking like that first thing!
second none ever sayd u have to leave your guild, none sayd u can't sign up for a day with a group of friends!
third scheduled be done to prevent the farm of only 5 people on it... like u sayd if u was one fighter that can manage helga and had friends with who raid all days u was going there all days to kill it! well without schedule was going to happen like other servers... just 1 guild get all helga dropps and keep kill helga all days & all others people out of that guild being reported and suspended by game for ks... is that better than try a way to share helga in whole server?!

[bithun86]

The flaming is becoming ridiculous people. Look, if you are gonna criticize the schedule, then at least do it nicely please, no reason to just flat out bash it and use foul language. And blaming Meek and Neon.....not their fault, they offered a solution, never said it was perfect. Whether you want to admit it or not, the idea of the schedule worked, guilds/parties are getting on the schedule, they are killing Helga, and we are fighting over it like all the other servers. Til now...
First of all most of us tried to present the faults in the schedule in a pretty appropriate manner..until the so called players supporting the same kept repeatedly saying that the whole schedule thing is best without even understanding what we are tryin to say or point out, etc. etc.
I won't consider it to be a fault had it just been a solution or a suggestion...instead i see few players are just being adamant to the fact that the schedule is the best and needs to be followed no matter how many suggestions we give, neither are they ready to accept any changes to it....
secondly we are still fighting over it like all other server simply means that the so called schedule is a big failure.

You all want a server raid cause you want weapons right? Well first off I say stop being greedy, cap is about to raise and there will be more Hellgaits then any server can handle, thus making them non important in the first place. And second, ok, think about it, you want a server raid right? Guess what that means, every big guild you don't want there, will be there, every day, and they are bigger guilds so they will have more people, more people means better chance of actually getting drops(50+people, could in reality be hundreds. with 2 drops, you do the math lol) and decreasing your chances. But you know what, for now, I could care less about Helga, gotten no drops, never wanted any, cause stuff like this happens. Cap is gonna raise, i've never raced so i'll be workin on that. Have fun, go all out server raid everyday, when you get no drops maybe you'll see both sides and not just bash one.
first an the foremost thing i rather find the people who want to stick to the schedule being more greedy...reason: some of the guilds and players already have 10 hellgaits but still they don't want to give up...they still want 5 days in a month....as of us, supporting the server wide raid simply proves that we ain't being greedy...helga weapon was never an issue for me either, whats the issue for me is a certain group of people hoarding the drops, that is why on contrary we are trying our best to stop these people from being greedy....i again highly appreciate the very few who sell their hellgaits at a cheaper price or give em away to their friends but thats only a handful of them......

Finally, few reasons why i don't think the schedule is the best(i have repeated em over and over again) because:-
1> the number of players who are against the schedule is turning out to be more and more everyday compared to the number of players supporting it.
2> The schedule hasn't provided any solution because players are still fighting among themselves in the forum. Though it hasn't affected the in game helga raid to that extent coz everyone who has been against the schedule have tried their best to keep the argument just to the forum(i seriously doubt that now because In the time to come, most of the rebels together will try to kill helga before the scheduled guild even reaches the spot and immediately after the helga respawn.)

[Kyo_Sama]

Sigh, you obviously havent been since day 1 when this started.

Meek and me said we were OPEN to ANY suggestion to make this IDEA better. WE BOTH know this IDEA has FLAWS.

And I don't think you never answered me. You said that we have NOT tried the idea of server raiding everyday, because you have not seen the "daily" drama. Well, just so ya know, this idea was made on consequence of all the drama that was happening. A lot of people wanted something DIFFERENT to happen.


Have you ever heard the term, if it ain't broke don't fix it? Turn it the OTHER way around, if its broke, fix it (:
I've been in game longer than you ever have... yes that includes your already banned mage.

as for its broke so fix it, No problem Every day is a server raid, theres no group of players Monopolizing and spot claiming since it would be open to all.

Rules of KSing wouldnt apply since its open to all, anyone pissed off that guildwars for whatever reason will be reported Under the guildwars rules.

That is the simplest and most effecient system. Theres no need for you, meek, or others to pretend to be GM's and as a nice side bonus you two can both hush about being so stressed over your "idea".

[bithun86]

u could say your opinion not talking like that first thing!
second none ever sayd u have to leave your guild, none sayd u can't sign up for a day with a group of friends!
third scheduled be done to prevent the farm of only 5 people on it... like u sayd if u was one fighter that can manage helga and had friends with who raid all days u was going there all days to kill it! well without schedule was going to happen like other servers... just 1 guild get all helga dropps and keep kill helga all days & all others people out of that guild being reported and suspended by game for ks... is that better than try a way to share helga in whole server?!
(i have already repeated it nth times)
Well everyone who has invited us to join the helga raid has asked us to leave our guild and join there's because it is against the rules of the helga schedule to gt outside help.
Secondly, we can't have our best friends(benevolent ones, who never have any issues with who got the helga weapon etc. just like us) join us, just because the schedule prevents em to do so.
Thirdly, i think there's already has been lot of flame and drama, i even have lost few of my friends just because of this whole schedule episode.

helga indeed is the toughest monster to kill is see that now, not because it is strong, but because it also carries the potential of affecting the relationship among players in the game, to enliven the worst sins of mankind in the players namely greed, anger, gluttony,pride & envy and further more the capability to divide the whole server.

[WinterClown]

Lol think i got like 10 quotes now x.x
It's not unfair, it's an advantage and direct result of working together and hence being able to optimize the amount of times Helga can be killed over a certain amount of time (by any party). I don't see the need of "optimizing". Helga spawns every 24th hour..Forevaaaaah 8D!


Sorry, but I don't understand your argument :( My point was that if there was no schedule, as soon as you organized your Helga party either Helga would have been dead already, or some big guild would already be waiting in front of the gate till the next spawn time. The schedule actually gives smaller parties the ability to either plan in their raid on a free day or to talk to a guild to trade spots, avoiding the scenario above.
My argument was that since helga has a respawn time of 24 hours, u have 24 hours to get ready for a raid. And in my opinion that is well enough time to get scrolls/SC for the raid. And it's a serverwide message everytime it's killed, so big guilds can't be "secret" about it. I dont think a guild will be there 24/7 forever ever ever, so one day, some other guild/party/group will get there first.

I assume this messageboard would be filled with your posts complaining about that guild ;) My point was that this schedule does in no way prevent a guild/group/whatever from farming it.


Sorry but in my opinion O.o the majority agree on this.
You think you're the majority, we think we're the majority. And we can't see what is correct anyway (since not every single person on Teva visit forums/speak english/care about this etc...), so let's just skip that argument.

Would you have preferred the constant cussing,warring,ToS Violations that happened when helga was being killed via Server Raid only? The Drama was FAR too much. Maybe it would have been for some people "fairer" but they have LESS chance at getting weapons. Which is what everyone wants correct? As zephyr said, Bijou does pretty well with their server raids.

Amen to that kat D:

In other words, nothing can be perfect. People complained when they did server raids, that only the party that the main tanker(or tankers) were always getting the last hit/hence they get the weps.
(I think they are worth it)
The tanker party doesn't always get last hit?

Then people would complain that the same people are getting the weps, which would be WORSE right?
I don't see how that is worse than the schedule. From my point of view, only the "big guilds" get the weps, i.e. "the same people".

Now everyone has a fair outright chance to get helga weps. There are some that they are in (little guilds). Just ask someone if you could attend or get a spot and done. Complaining will not get you nowhere really. And, when people are saying that "the majority" dont like this schedule, they are wrong.
Don't talk for other people, talk for yourself. We don't experience that small guilds have a fair chance.

Sorry, but you're not getting my point :( The time it takes to kill Helga is irrelevant, I was talking about the number of times Helga can be killed per period of time. To give an example:

- without the schedule, Helga can be killed 4 times a week
- with the schedule, Helga can be killed 7 times a week

This means that with the schedule, on a weekly basis, 3 more parties would be able to get their Helga drops. It's a mutual benefit.
I think what he/she (cant remember who u quoted xD) meant, was that with that system, a big guild (since they apparently kill it faster?) has to kill it day 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6, in order to make it spawn "in time" the 7th day. Which cuts us down to one server/small guild/whatever group raid per week.


All can find a spot in the schedule. I have a hard time finding one. Weekdays im usually in school when helga spawns. Weekend it spawns too late for me (around 4-5am). The only possible day for me would be right after maintenance->wednesday, but there we have HvG atm. Which leaves me with wednesday free days, around 1 day/month? 1 opportunity/month is waaaay too low. And what if i'm busy that only day? :(

You have the misconception that the schedule is static. The schedule is about dividing the time between the parties that can kill Helga, if more parties can kill Helga, the schedule is changed. Everybody is fine about the idea of adding more free days, but what is the purpose of adding more free days when the interest for the current free days is so very small?
It's nice with free days and all, but we're against the schedule as a whole.

i dont remember there being this much trouble when we had server raids regularly. you can say this was a potential solution, but its clearly not a solution. I am really tired of seeing the same thing about "meek and neon worked so hard" hard work isnt the issue... i can work all day all night on something that is wrong. does that make it right? and the majority of people are ok with this? not even a nearly accurate statement I didn't experience that either. Nice post btw.

[SIZE="1"]First, Please control your language, whoever you are. Second, we are NOT running the game, would you please read before opening your mouth? Thank You. Second, the schedule was merely a SUGGESTION for all teva to choose, and most of them AGREED with the idea, so we put it into play.


Who said you need to leave your guild? You don't have to leave your guild =/ You can join other raids if you wst, Please control your language, whoever you are. Second, we are NOT running the game, would you please read before opening your mouth? Thank You. Second, the schedule was merely a SUGGESTION for all teva to choose, and most of them AGREED with the idea, so we put it into play.


Who said you need to leave your guild? You don't have to leave your guild =/ You can join other raids if you wish without leaving your guild.

I think meek and I left that very clear to everyone, now if you have not read everything, then get your facts straight, and come back to me.ish without leaving your guild.

I think meek and I left that very clear to everyone, now if you have not read everything, then get your facts straight, and come back to me.
Sorry, just thought all the "seconds" were funny xD

And to answer your post: It's clearly alot easier to join an already scheduled guild than apply with your own. Since you can chose a time that suits you, you know you have a new chance every week etc.

Btw, you typed everything twice? o-O

[WinterClown]

lol wow, i read through it all, and when i post some comments, i already have a whole new page to read through @@
helga indeed is the toughest monster to kill is see that now, not because it is strong, but because it also carries the potential of affecting the relationship among players in the game, to enliven the worst sins of mankind in the players namely greed, anger, gluttony,pride & envy and further more the capability to divide the whole server.
Poetic x)

[Kyo_Sama]

Second, the schedule was merely a SUGGESTION for all teva to choose, and most of them AGREED with the idea, so we put it into play.


Define the following for me...

Who is them, who is most.

And when exactly did we have a public poll asking every player of this server if they supported schedules ?

Hell i remember Tempest threads many people shot her idea of schedules down, which by the way came well before yours. So in honesty you plagiarized an idea claimed it as your own, and pretended it to was hard work. Then the moment people complain you default to the nicest logical fallacies ever, Appeal to Popularity, Argumentum ad Ignorantiam, and Slippery slope.

http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146623
http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146331
http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146624

so really how unique was your suggestion ?

Point being here that most of Teva doesnt care for the way you and your followers tout this to be the best and only solution. Here's proof that its been tried and failed. Now your's has tried and also failed. You know it as well as everyone else here.

So instead of saying theres no other solutions why dont you sit down and go read through what others have said.

[defiant_saim]

Lol think i got like 10 quotes now x.x
I don't see the need of "optimizing". Helga spawns every 24th hour..Forevaaaaah 8D!
The optimization is realised by cooperation, hence being able to plan in time frames in which Helga can be killed in order for him to be respawned the next day at a certain time. Without a schedule it could happen that Helga would be spawned already for hours without any party going after him or it could be that some party arrives at Helga only to find out he's already dead. By making sure that within 2 hours after it spawns Helga is killed by a party, the schedule makes it possible to kill Helga more times a week, hence satsifying more parties.


My argument was that since helga has a respawn time of 24 hours, u have 24 hours to get ready for a raid. And in my opinion that is well enough time to get scrolls/SC for the raid. And it's a serverwide message everytime it's killed, so big guilds can't be "secret" about it. I dont think a guild will be there 24/7 forever ever ever, so one day, some other guild/party/group will get there first.
Wasn't BusouRenkin there every time Helga spawned for a while before the schedule was implemented? I believe on Bijou, there is actually one guild doing precisely this, getting all the Helga drops. To be honest, I'm not sure one of the big guilds on Teva could pull this of on their own, but if two of the major guilds decide to cooperate and share the Helga loot, you can be sure there will be a guild party there every time Helga spawns. Good luck organizing something when you are in a smaller guild.


My point was that this schedule does in no way prevent a guild/group/whatever from farming it.
Indeed, but only if a guild/group/whatever decides not to follow it. If everybody follows the schedule, drops are equally divided between the parties that can kill Helga.

[defiant_saim]

To address the argument that the schedule only benefits the bigger guilds and is something they use to keep other guilds at bay. The very fact alone that this schedule exists and is publicly available proves the contrary.

Suppose there wasn't such a public schedule, this evidently wouldn't stop the bigger guilds from cooperating with eachother. Hence, in stead of that it would be very clear now at what time Helga is killed and when he would respawn, this vital information would become only available to these guilds. As getting enough people there at any time of the day is proven to be not a big issue, it's then just a matter of making arrangements between the guilds on when Helga should be killed by who to assure that no other party would be able to kill Helga ever.

To conclude, the argument that this schedule only benefits the bigger guilds is invalid. If the bigger guilds would cooperate without disclosing it, they would actually get more drops.

[neonlovesyou]

I've been in game longer than you ever have... yes that includes your already banned mage.

as for its broke so fix it, No problem Every day is a server raid, theres no group of players Monopolizing and spot claiming since it would be open to all.

Rules of KSing wouldnt apply since its open to all, anyone pissed off that guildwars for whatever reason will be reported Under the guildwars rules.

That is the simplest and most effecient system. Theres no need for you, meek, or others to pretend to be GM's and as a nice side bonus you two can both hush about being so stressed over your "idea".


Lol... First of all, I did not ask you if you were playing before me, and you DONT even have to mention my mage. If you were playing before me, good for you.

Rules of ksing DO apply, because if someone is there killing helga already, and some noob/noobs come in to hit him, then that IS ksing. Isn't every map open to all? Ksing is Ksing.

And wth, we're not pretending to be a GM, GM's don't even bother to do something like this for the "community". Like Meek and I said and please make your mind to understand this, we are just giving out a suggestions. NOT our fault if a lot of people (even if they say the schedule has flaws) like this suggestion.
Define the following for me...

Who is them, who is most.

And when exactly did we have a public poll asking every player of this server if they supported schedules ?

Hell i remember Tempest threads many people shot her idea of schedules down, which by the way came well before yours. So in honesty you plagiarized an idea claimed it as your own, and pretended it to was hard work. Then the moment people complain you default to the nicest logical fallacies ever, Appeal to Popularity, Argumentum ad Ignorantiam, and Slippery slope.

http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146623
http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146331
http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146624

so really how unique was your suggestion ?

Point being here that most of Teva doesnt care for the way you and your followers tout this to be the best and only solution. Here's proof that its been tried and failed. Now your's has tried and also failed. You know it as well as everyone else here.

So instead of saying theres no other solutions why dont you sit down and go read through what others have said.

Ya know o.o you should REALLY read things more often before opening your mouth :3 Fill yourself with knowledge.


Wanna know when we had a poll regarding if players supported schedules? Here: ;D

http://outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178811

Maybe your undersized brain won't understand this.

In other words this was a thread for PEOPLE to voice out their opinions ^^.

And, like we SAID on one of the earlier threads, when a kind person like you ^^ was comparing our idea with Tempy's. ITS not the same idea, you should read again o:. First, we Acknowledged the fact that she had that idea before, Second, we also pointed out that it was not the same idea, and by THAT time, if you remember, what BIIR did, didnt happen yet, BY that I mean the (Killing helga only 5 people thing) People AT that time thought they needed a MASSIVE group of people, which has now changed. And Tempy wanted to distribute the weps by class.

Just to show you for a fact it was not the same, see her polls, and you'll understand it :3 I HOPE you do, if you want me to make it clearer for you, just ask ^^

The schedule has NOT failed, quite honestly, more or less 10 people have said it has, while 6 or 7 times that have said it hasn't? Tsk Tsk. Get your fact straights.


And for winter: IF we did server raids, it would be the same thing.

Pro: Everyone would participate
Cons: Less chances of getting helga weps, the main tanker's party will have more probablility of getting helga weps. And it will STILL be unfair. People sad it after like the third raid we did~ They were saying,: Oh you should give the wep out to this person or that person. They were calling each other GREEDY because they did not want to hand out the weps + they were bickering about who was gonna kill helga when. The point of killing helga is getting weps right? Unless you want to kill him for pleasure, be my guest.

So if the point of killing helga, is to eventually have a wep, shouldnt we put ourselves in a position where, we have MORE posibilities to get weps?

A suggestion to meek, we should alternate 14 different guilds. 7 and 7, so no one complains about not getting helga. And they can each have a chance each 2 weeks.

[Iffrit]

Lol... First of all, I did not ask you if you were playing before me, and you DONT even have to mention my mage. If you were playing before me, good for you.

Rules of ksing DO apply, because if someone is there killing helga already, and some noob/noobs come in to hit him, then that IS ksing. Isn't every map open to all? Ksing is Ksing.

And wth, we're not pretending to be a GM, GM's don't even bother to do something like this for the "community". Like Meek and I said and please make your mind to understand this, we are just giving out a suggestions. NOT our fault if a lot of people (even if they say the schedule has flaws) like this suggestion.


Ya know o.o you should REALLY read things more often before opening your mouth :3 Fill yourself with knowledge.


Wanna know when we had a poll regarding if players supported schedules? Here: ;D

http://outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178811

Maybe your undersized brain won't understand this.

In other words this was a thread for PEOPLE to voice out their opinions ^^.

And, like we SAID on one of the earlier threads, when a kind person like you ^^ was comparing our idea with Tempy's. ITS not the same idea, you should read again o:. First, we Acknowledged the fact that she had that idea before, Second, we also pointed out that it was not the same idea, and by THAT time, if you remember, what BIIR did, didnt happen yet, BY that I mean the (Killing helga only 5 people thing) People AT that time thought they needed a MASSIVE group of people, which has now changed. And Tempy wanted to distribute the weps by class.

Just to show you for a fact it was not the same, see her polls, and you'll understand it :3 I HOPE you do, if you want me to make it clearer for you, just ask ^^

The schedule has NOT failed, quite honestly, more or less 10 people have said it has, while 6 or 7 times that have said it hasn't? Tsk Tsk. Get your fact straights.


And for winter: IF we did server raids, it would be the same thing.

Pro: Everyone would participate
Cons: Less chances of getting helga weps, the main tanker's party will have more probablility of getting helga weps. And it will STILL be unfair. People sad it after like the third raid we did~ They were saying,: Oh you should give the wep out to this person or that person. They were calling each other GREEDY because they did not want to hand out the weps + they were bickering about who was gonna kill helga when. The point of killing helga is getting weps right? Unless you want to kill him for pleasure, be my guest.

So if the point of killing helga, is to eventually have a wep, shouldnt we put ourselves in a position where, we have MORE posibilities to get weps?

A suggestion to meek, we should alternate 14 different guilds. 7 and 7, so no one complains about not getting helga. And they can each have a chance each 2 weeks.


Lmfao agree much :rolleyes:

[neonlovesyou]

To address the argument that the schedule only benefits the bigger guilds and is something they use to keep other guilds at bay. The very fact alone that this schedule exists and is publicly available proves the contrary.

Suppose there wasn't such a public schedule, this evidently wouldn't stop the bigger guilds from cooperating with eachother. Hence, in stead of that it would be very clear now at what time Helga is killed and when he would respawn, this vital information would become only available to these guilds. As getting enough people there at any time of the day is proven to be not a big issue, it's then just a matter of making arrangements between the guilds on when Helga should be killed by who to assure that no other party would be able to kill Helga ever.

To conclude, the argument that this schedule only benefits the bigger guilds is invalid. If the bigger guilds would cooperate without disclosing it, they would actually get more drops.

Wow saim I see your posts and Q.Q you really know what you're saying xD. I completely agree 100% with you and I would HOPE the PEOPLE that think this schedule fails will understand this.

Why call this schedule greedy, or unfair, or something similar?

If this schedule wasnt implemented, I would see 1 guild going to farm helga every single day, not to call them greedy because they're not, but they could. And what if another guild wants to kill it also the same day Guild [A] decides to kill? War War War War. And Ks. And everything else. Wouldnt THAT be unfair? You would say: Oh but Guild [X] Is killing helga everyday and doesnt give a chance to no one else. These guilds that appointed themselves for the schedule, actually did the most selfless act possible, because, they could have easily not agreed with it and just went each day to kill helga and not give other guilds chance to get weps, hence, LESS chance to get weps.

[defiant_saim]

I think what he/she (cant remember who u quoted xD) meant, was that with that system, a big guild (since they apparently kill it faster?) has to kill it day 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6, in order to make it spawn "in time" the 7th day. Which cuts us down to one server/small guild/whatever group raid per week.

Why would a big guilds kill it faster? I see you use a question mark there too ;)

Currently, I believe it's expected that any party kills Helga in a 2 hour time frame. Now, assuming you organized everything before that 2 hour time span, that's a _very_ long time to kill it.


I have a hard time finding one. Weekdays im usually in school when helga spawns. Weekend it spawns too late for me (around 4-5am). The only possible day for me would be right after maintenance->wednesday, but there we have HvG atm. Which leaves me with wednesday free days, around 1 day/month? 1 opportunity/month is waaaay too low. And what if i'm busy that only day? :(
Everybody has that problem. If you would be part of any guild but HvG you would have the same problem. What I would suggest is to organize a big party that can kill Helga on a certain day, and then go talk with HvG (for instance) to see if you can work something out. Currently, we are in a high demand, low supply situation, which sucks for everybody. As the spawn time of Helga is beyond our control, the only thing we can do to generate more supply is actually a schedule to maximize the amount of times Helga spawns.

[bithun86]

The optimization is realised by cooperation, hence being able to plan in time frames in which Helga can be killed in order for him to be respawned the next day at a certain time. Without a schedule it could happen that Helga would be spawned already for hours without any party going after him or it could be that some party arrives at Helga only to find out he's already dead. By making sure that within 2 hours after it spawns Helga is killed by a party, the schedule makes it possible to kill Helga more times a week, hence satsifying more parties.
i agree with when you say that the schedule definitely allows us to know the time the helga was killed etc. etc. but the point is "the schedule makes it possible to kill Helga more times a week, hence satsifying more parties."
the more parties in the discussion are rather very few.....


Wasn't BusouRenkin there every time Helga spawned for a while before the schedule was implemented? I believe on Bijou, there is actually one guild doing precisely this, getting all the Helga drops. To be honest, I'm not sure one of the big guilds on Teva could pull this of on their own, but if two of the major guilds decide to cooperate and share the Helga loot, you can be sure there will be a guild party there every time Helga spawns. Good luck organizing something when you are in a smaller guild.

I don't think people in those 2 guilds are greedy enough to be doing that, if they do then they are plain greedy.
The guild that does the same in bijou doesn't prevents the players from other guilds who are close enough to be friends to be a part of it.
Organizing a raid doesn't have to do anything with being in smaller guild or bigger guild unless and until u have few very good friends.


Indeed, but only if a guild/group/whatever decides not to follow it. If everybody follows the schedule, drops are equally divided between the parties that can kill Helga.

The drops can also be equally divided if the people who kill the helga are benevolent enough to do that and if parties irrespective of guild come together to do that.(considering everyone knows the other quite closely)

[Kyo_Sama]

Lol... First of all, I did not ask you if you were playing before me, and you DONT even have to mention my mage. If you were playing before me, good for you. You made that relevant to the discussion as soon as you question my playing experience.

Rules of ksing DO apply, because if someone is there killing helga already, and some noob/noobs come in to hit him, then that IS ksing. Isn't every map open to all? Ksing is Ksing. Its now obvious english isnt your primary language. You asked for a suggestion, i said do a server raid where in there is no "KS" because everyone is working for the same goal as a unit.


And wth, we're not pretending to be a GM, GM's don't even bother to do something like this for the "community". Like Meek and I said and please make your mind to understand this, we are just giving out a suggestions. NOT our fault if a lot of people (even if they say the schedule has flaws) like this suggestion.
Then do us all a favor call all the guilds you have on that schedule and tell them its meaningless since its just a suggestion. Ergo since its meaningless anyone can raid helga as they wish. As for you two not tryin to be GM's biggest load of crap ive seen you post thus far.



Ya know o.o you should REALLY read things more often before opening your mouth :3 Fill yourself with knowledge.

Same to you sparky, Knowledge is power... the more you know. Or in your case the more you refuse to acknowledge.


Wanna know when we had a poll regarding if players supported schedules? Here: ;D
http://outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178811
Maybe your undersized brain won't understand this.
In other words this was a thread for PEOPLE to voice out their opinions ^^.

Show me wherein that poll exist a no schedule option. It Doesnt. Whats even more laughable is that you based it on 19 peoples votes not even 1% of the community cared enough to vote or read the topic.

And, like we SAID on one of the earlier threads, when a kind person like you ^^ was comparing our idea with Tempy's. ITS not the same idea, you should read again o:. First, we Acknowledged the fact that she had that idea before, Second, we also pointed out that it was not the same idea, and by THAT time, if you remember, what BIIR did, didnt happen yet, BY that I mean the (Killing helga only 5 people thing) People AT that time thought they needed a MASSIVE group of people, which has now changed. And Tempy wanted to distribute the weps by class. Its the exact same idea, the only change is 1, the spawn timer was reduced, 2 helga was nerfed.

Just to show you for a fact it was not the same, see her polls, and you'll understand it :3 I HOPE you do, if you want me to make it clearer for you, just ask ^^ Her polls ask for when most people will be online so they can kill helga most efficently since she wanted to get 2 raids in a week, this was yet again when helga had a 5 day respawn.

Btw any tell you your an arrogant <Removed> who thinks he's actually more intellegent than he is ?

The schedule has NOT failed, quite honestly, more or less 10 people have said it has, while 6 or 7 times that have said it hasn't? Tsk Tsk. Get your fact straights. so your saying just cause you believe the majority approves its right. Congrats for passing BUSH-logic 101. People believed the war in iraq was right however due to botched intelligence we know we were unjustly sent there. Same token applies here the vocal minority bring up the complaints get shot down and called ugly names. Then the truth comes out later.
[/QUOTE]

You sir can have a nice day. Your 100% right in your assertion that the community loves and supports everything you do. We just open our mouths for 15 minutes of fame because you know, thats what trolls do. /end sarcasm

[Kyo_Sama]

Why would a big guilds kill it faster?

Currently, I believe it's expected that any party kills Helga in a 2 hour time frame. Now, assuming you organized everything before that 2 hour time span, that's a _very_ long time to kill it.



You yourself wrote they have more manpower and resources than the smaller guilds. Now then ask yourself which of these 2 groups has more potential to kill helga faster.

Group A
Clerics x2
Fighters x3

Group B
Fighters x 20
Clerics x 15
Archer x 5
Mages x 5

... seriously if you say A your delusional.

this is my point None of these "Big Guilds" need 2 hours. They should be able to do it in 10-30 minutes easily. But instead when a small guild happened to be raiding they took 30 mins and a big guild came in and interfered sound fair.

then said big guilds wanna tell the small guils to get a time on their schedule and kill helga in 2hrs as its the only way to prove yourself.

How about the big guilds prove themselves if this after all a schedule to increase the drop rates they shouldnt need or use 2 hours. they should be done in 1/4th that time since they have nearly 50+ people. And should it be a full out guild raid of 100 they shouldnt even take 5 minutes.

[defiant_saim]

i agree with when you say that the schedule definitely allows us to know the time the helga was killed etc. etc. but the point is "the schedule makes it possible to kill Helga more times a week, hence satsifying more parties."
the more parties in the discussion are rather very few.....

I'm assuming you see those parties as the guild currently in the schedule? I don't think that's correct however. First of all, this list is open to every party that proves to be able to regularly kill Helga, so all these parties potentially benefit from it too. Secondly, parties that can only kill Helga under specific circumstances, or that just want to try, also benefit as the presence of more time slots gives them more flexibility to pick a suitable one. This can either be by picking one of the suitable free days or by making an agreement with the assigned guild on the schedule.

I've always supported the idea that if there was need for it, the amount of free days should be increased.


I don't think people in those 2 guilds are greedy enough to be doing that, if they do then they are plain greedy.
You only need two guilds that are. Besides that, why would this be greedy? Everybody wants a Helga weapon I guess, if you can obtain one by going through the effort of organizing things and cooperation in stead of cheer luck, why would that be greed? It would be greedy if everybody in the guild would have a Helga weapon and then the guild would continue to farm weapons just so they can control the market, but that won't be the case for a long time.

The guild that does the same in bijou doesn't prevents the players from other guilds who are close enough to be friends to be a part of it.
That doesn't sound like a healthy situation to me.


The drops can also be equally divided if the people who kill the helga are benevolent enough to do that and if parties irrespective of guild come together to do that.(considering everyone knows the other quite closely)
True. But those ideas you have, wouldn't it be possible to incorporate them into the schedule system? Get some "smaller" guilds together, arrange them to work together and share the loot, take one day in the schedule to proof you can kill Helga on a regular basis, and then become part of the schedule as a single party composed of different guilds. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the assumption this is allowed under the current rules?

[Kyo_Sama]

Quote-Wars Attack of the Flame Q.Q

Didn't the OP say please refrain from flames?

How about more constructive ways to find a better way to do helga raids, see'ing as how calling other people "delusional" and such isnt helping ,_,

Just trying to help..

Obvious Troll much ?

your comments are far from helpful,

and ive already posted my contributions which yet again get overlooked because they are not what Meek and Neon think is best for their "hard work"

[thedark17]

Fiiine, ill delete my post :(

All im trying to do is get Teva to work together for what they want, instead of everyone picking sides

Meek+Neon's scheduale is working well-ish , maybe they should remove the guild time slots and have just party's ?

And, BTW your post isnt really helping either I dont see the need to call me a "Obvious Troll" if you want to do that, can you do so in PM or something @_@

[Like 12th edit] That quote wars thing was funny in my head, maybe not to everyone else Dx

[Kyo_Sama]

Fiiine, ill delete my post :(

All im trying to do is get Teva to work together for what they want, instead of everyone picking sides

Meek+Neon's scheduale is working well-ish , maybe they should remove the guild time slots and have just party's ?

Getting Teva to work together wont happen until one of the sides voice finally gets listened to, unfortunately we are instead being censored and criticized for doing nothing more than pointing out flaws and showing that the schedule needs to just go as its nothing but a biased way for the Bigger guilds to farm, monopolize and spot claim.

[thedark17]

Getting Teva to work together wont happen until one of the sides voice finally gets listened to, unfortunately we are instead being censored and criticized for doing nothing more than pointing out flaws and showing that the schedule needs to just go as its nothing but a biased way for the Bigger guilds to farm, monopolize and spot claim.

If your upset please dont take it out on me .__.

there scheduale (mis-spelt i think) has spots were smaller guilds can attempt to kill helga as well, not just the big guilds

Believe me, ive asked many questions about how the scheduale works ;3

[Kyo_Sama]

If your upset please dont take it out on me .__.

there scheduale (mis-spelt i think) has spots were smaller guilds can attempt to kill helga as well, not just the big guilds

Believe me, ive asked many questions about how the scheduale works ;3

Again BS, it has all of 5 "Free days" that have to be claimed by the smaller guilds. The fact is not all of us in the smaller guilds live in a timezone where we can kill helga before the 4 OS time. i know that in the guild im in theres an average difference in time between us of 7 hours. Do the math here

4 OS time is 6pm Central, add 7 hours. 1 am ...you honestly think people are going to be awake at that time when they have college and jobs ?

No one plays this game to let other players determine when they are allowed to go raid which is what the schedule makers want to do.

The very fact is that they refuse to acknowledge that they set a time limit and times that are very unreasonable for a majority of the people that reside in the EU, Germany, Russia, etc..

[defiant_saim]

You yourself wrote they have more manpower and resources than the smaller guilds.
You seem to confuse two different things here. First there are the manpower and resource a guild has available in general and secondly there are the manpower and resources a guild has available at a certain time.

The latter is a dynamic variable. Say, a huge guild composing of only Americans, they would probably have a hard time getting enough people online to kill Helga when their raid time is at 5 o clock FST.

Now there are two things that affect the amount of manpower and resources a guild has to kill Helga at a certain time:

a) The manpower and resources the guild has available in general. Obviously bigger guilds have the advantage here.
b) The flexibility to chose the time of the raid. While big guilds have very little flexibility in chosing the time of the raid, smaller guilds have a lot more. They have the liberty to pick one of the free days or to trade with one of the bigger guild in order to get a time slot about which they know they can get a lot of people online on.

Due to item b, it wouldn't be a surprise if a certain smaller guild could kill Helga in a faster time than a bigger guild.


this is my point None of these "Big Guilds" need 2 hours. They should be able to do it in 10-30 minutes easily.

I don't think anybody needs two hours. Assuming a guild is standing at the gate all organized and ready when the two hours start, if they haven't killed Helga during those two hours, I wonder if that guild would be able to kill Helga at all.


But instead when a small guild happened to be raiding they took 30 mins and a big guild came in and interfered sound fair.

then said big guilds wanna tell the small guils to get a time on their schedule and kill helga in 2hrs as its the only way to prove yourself.
The "proving" is only necessary if you want to kill Helga on a regular basis and get a fixed slot in the schedule. Otherwise, you could either check the schedule for one of the free days or just come to some other agreement switching places with one of the guilds.

I really don't believe big guilds should bully smaller guilds, but on the other hand it's really not very surprising that people would get ticked off very quickly if they go to all the effort of organizing a Helga guild and then see that another guild took their place. That small guild would most likely know the time Helga spawns by using the information available through the public schedule, I don't see it as very fair to reject the schedule, but then happily use the information available through the schedule when it's suitable.


How about the big guilds prove themselves if this after all a schedule to increase the drop rates they shouldnt need or use 2 hours. they should be done in 1/4th that time since they have nearly 50+ people. And should it be a full out guild raid of 100 they shouldnt even take 5 minutes.
I refer to my first paragraph to answer this.

[thedark17]

Again BS, it has all of 5 "Free days" that have to be claimed by the smaller guilds. The fact is not all of us in the smaller guilds live in a timezone where we can kill helga before the 4 OS time. i know that in the guild im in theres an average difference in time between us of 7 hours. Do the math here

4 OS time is 6pm Central, add 7 hours. 1 am ...you honestly think people are going to be awake at that time when they have college and jobs ?

No one plays this game to let other players determine when they are allowed to go raid which is what the schedule makers want to do.

The very fact is that they refuse to acknowledge that they set a time limit and times that are very unreasonable for a majority of the people that reside in the EU, Germany, Russia, etc..

Okay, im just going to stop posting ....

Dont tell me what the issue is, tell meek+neon

But do it calmly ;.;

[Celtic_Princess]

This thread has long outlived its useful life.

I cannot say how disappointing it is that after the first two threads closed for flaming, none of you could refrain yourselves from doing the same in this one.

To be honest, and this is strictly from a player point of view, I am tired of this. Schedule or no there is no reason that you all should be acting this way toward each other. I have edited out language, I have seen people insult other users intelligence and I have seen people in this thread resort to personal attacks on players that were once their friends for what? What did any of you gain from this? Did it solve the problem? No. Did it earn you friends? No...in fact you may have lost a few. So what purpose did all of those personal attacks serve?

I see threads all over the forums about how the community has become so much worse, and yet instead of setting an example, we as older players are at the forefront bickering over a set of pixels. What kind of example are we setting for new players?
[Closed]