Bring the Hard Hitters/Alphas to the East Eir maps.. [Archive]

D-Styles

04-19-2009, 12:42 AM

I think the non existence of hard hitters/Alphas has gone on long enough.

well for one thing, its pretty annoying when you play a class meant for soloing and that there is always people taking the whole entire map when you are trying to grind, especially since i can now only solo in places that dont have any hard hitters whatsoever.. With hard hitters around they wont be pulled (or pulled as much) and it'll at least leave some mobs for everyone.

Soloing pretty much is going obsolete.. Due to the fact that the tankers pretty much take all the mobs, and not leaving as much for solo class players, It feels as if the experience is all being handed to mobbers/tankers because they can pull a lot more. You wonder why Rangers and Wizards are falling behind on the leaderboards? (Aside from the fact that a few of them have assist AOEd)

Thirdly, i've seen people nearly thirty or even forty levels apart trying to mob the same map.. its get pretty chaotic and its not proportional. At least with Hard hitters/Alphas, people were around the lvl and right maps they should be.. it worked with the ice maps, and it has worked with all the desert maps. So Ive always wondered why the alphas are absent in these maps..

Anyone old enough remember Edine Plains? it was the only map with no hard hitters in the ice maps, and guess what happened, it got cluttered and the aspas were converted to hard hitters..

Anyone else agree with me? I know im gonna be blasted by tankers/mobbers, but i dont care, the existence of alphas give mob control.

bobalitos

04-19-2009, 01:35 AM

as solo killer i agreee..... >< give us mobs to solo please ^^

yea you can tell us to join aoe and assist but really... who wants an archer for assist? =/ (warriors genetically hate archers due to pvp, and add that to the fact that wiz assist aoe is more efficient)
(PM ME BTW IF YOU NEED ARCHER BINDER)

please force the tanks to leave us a few monsters here and there

PS. of course im bound to say this, im archer ^.^

Kayarine

04-19-2009, 01:47 AM

I totally agree with you. I might be a Wiz, but I don't get aoe party 24/7... So I solo when I have no party (I prefer being in party though, even if it's just for regular killing), and in Amorica there's almost always 1-3 aoers...
They sweep the whole map and I have to wait for respawns, which usually are full of aggros and I have to wait for the aoers to take most of them in order to continue solo (these are the times I wish wizzes had some skill like Snake Shot xD).

SiL3NCe

04-19-2009, 03:08 AM

I'll also agree to this statement, It has happend to me countless of times on my ranger. I'd be in a map, say big apple, soloing for a couple of hours, where aoers would come and begin their aoe taking the whole map, leaving not a single mob for me to kill. I don't wanna fight with the aoers for mobs, so I go back a map, and guess what, another bunch of aoers mobbing the whole map. It really has gone out of hand, thus I conclude rangers have become obsolete in the new maps being the least needed class in my general opinion. So I'm with you DJ, lets makes signs and creative chants and protest ;] "What do we want? Alphas! When do we want it? Now!' [or a patch sometime in the not so distant future ^^;]

ggBuRNe

04-19-2009, 04:06 AM

i agree with you guys.. they should put hard hitters from from the Graveyard maps up to Amorica.. Sins even the nub sins are overcrowding the maps and high def warriors/warlords as well.. For example, Amorica is meant for 140+ but you will see 11x or 12x sin mobbing more than half a map in a party with another 2 tankers of 11x and 12x who collected the other half.. Sometimes they kill hella slow and have to wait a while to get respawn.. Heck, even 13x or 14x players should not be able to mob whole maps.. It is unfair to solo killer.. I feel sorry for solo killer which includes ranger and wizard.. There should be hard hitters in every map just the same as in desert and such..

bobalitos

04-19-2009, 04:13 AM

wait dont do it yet... let me catch up on warrior first! :3

dune117

04-19-2009, 05:14 AM

That's an affirmative on the aoe mob domination frustration thing. I hate cruising loren or chant, then here comes a thundering herd absorbing all mobs in the area. I'll never kill steal, but it is tempting at the moment. Isn't it?,,lol

TheDarkSenshi

04-19-2009, 06:53 AM

I havent been in the new maps lately (at least 3 weeks) but i know what ur talking about. every mob just about is aoeable. what about the rest who don't aoe right? Well, I for one support ya DJ. Great thread. You address some important issues.

But I also wonder.... if maybe they made these maps with no hard hitters at all.... maybe for a reason... maybe becuz of all those complaints back in the day about aoe. o.O ever think of that? just a guess. But I do see where ur coming from. Maybe they made these maps the way they are to hush up aoe'ers... never know XD. But hard hitter's would be a nice idea to balance out for all those solos out there. They need love too you know D: Good luck for the voices out there! <333

poochyenarulez

04-19-2009, 01:43 PM

bloodly-chan

04-19-2009, 02:27 PM

I think a whole map full of 'hard hitters' would be really cool. Sorta like. By the time you can get enough def for that map, it's already unaoeable. Or those maps with only one aoeable mob. Sorta like the desert maps? But keep some maps full aoeable. That'd be pretty cool, I think.

poochyenarulez

04-19-2009, 02:35 PM

idk y people that can aoe amer, don't aoe sleepless grave, almost same def right?..

TRXSTA

04-19-2009, 02:56 PM

Ton more HP, no exp in comparison?

Mm, new maps are a joke. Library without being fully aggro is what they are, lol. Too easy.

D-Styles

04-19-2009, 02:56 PM

can we just take away aoe >.>
every day some1 complains about an aoer taking the whole map, or "stealling" some1s map or something
theres like 3 topics about aoe on the first page of general section..

i fail to see the threads, pretty ironic coming from someone who wants the healer class to have an attack aoe, give me a break.

idk y people that can aoe amer, don't aoe sleepless grave, almost same def right?..

No, not the same defense, and anyone knows a dungeon gives less then half the exp than a regular map, not to mention the time it takes to kill them.

AzNRuthLess

04-19-2009, 03:10 PM

wardomic

04-19-2009, 03:22 PM

I think the idea of all hard hitter maps would be a good idea, but limit to only 2 or 3 maps like the one before amorica or something. Also put at least one hard hitter in some of the other maps and leave the rest all aoeable. That way you have grab them all maps, maps with a hard like people are used to, even two hard hitters in one or two maps just for a challenge, leaving another map or two completely populated with hard hitters so that people don't have to have an aoer problem all the time. This is coming from a lvl 93 knight who has an interest in making an archer, maybe even ranger in the future.

CyberPhoenixSlayer

04-19-2009, 04:08 PM

They should really put Hard hitters on the east eir maps, no joke there too much people that get easily to amorica w/o problems now and maps get overcrownded. Agreed with the posts above too.

Daft_Brat

04-19-2009, 04:13 PM

Thirdly, i've seen people nearly thirty or even forty levels apart trying to mob the same map.. its get pretty chaotic and its not proportional. At least with Hard hitters/Alphas, people were around the lvl and right maps they should be.. it worked with the ice maps, and it has worked with all the desert maps. So Ive always wondered why the alphas are absent in these maps..

Anyone old enough remember Edine Plains? it was the only map with no hard hitters in the ice maps, and guess what happened, it got cluttered and the aspas were converted to hard hitters..

Agreed. Hard hitters should be implemented on most of those maps, if not all. At least then some of those aoers will head back to the old maps that are meant for their level and even out the traffic on them. >.>

</3 DJ :p

Propanol

04-19-2009, 06:46 PM

I think new additional maps with many hardhitters and range attackers of same lvl as templar~amorrica wud be nice. Thinking about blackmail~sherwood path, people barely aoe in those maps due to a lot of hardhitters and range attackers.

agha_torab

04-19-2009, 10:44 PM

AnimePimp66

04-20-2009, 12:14 AM

lol yeh man i was so exited taht there was no ranged mobs like the first few days bangle was my soloing heaven lol. then the aoe comes.... i would still b happy if they just made one or two of the mobs hard hitting at least i wouldnt have to worry about an aoer comeing and spam aoe around all the mobs i intend to kill Dx as long as they had to worry about damn alphas :D

ggBuRNe

04-20-2009, 12:49 AM

I dunno DJ, I realy like single killing with my archer in the desert with no respawn. :P

J/k I agree too. Getting to a high level is supposed to be a challenge, and I don't feel that it is anymore. All I have to do is follow and heal, I barely even use Spirit at all. When I AOE in Amorica, I can check my email, listen to music, feed my kids, all kinds of things. I had a harder time getting to 11X before these new maps than I did getting to 136 afterwards.

lol ! you can even feed your kids.. darn it !! haha

there are no challenge for tanker to get their level straight up to 150 especially warlord. LAME !

*shhh ! can i ask for more def or remove 7 hit from magic shield :3 i wana tank whole map tooo LOL*

himoses

04-20-2009, 07:40 AM

bakuyaa

04-20-2009, 08:01 AM

The new maps are really bias towards tanker classes. There isnt a single map that any ranger/wizard can solo and enjoy their solitude. Traditional grinding parties have become extinct and replaced with aoe parties. There for no healer wants to duo with a ranger and rather be in aoe party for more experience.

Our class has become obsolete, and rangers are retiring left and right. Of course that wont stop me from grinding and proving my worth, but dieing 5-6 times a day and eating up all my pendants has grown tiring. I've tried to aoe with my limited defense but without mogras helmet its just not possible. So I urge outspark to release the mogras game once again or change the concept of the new maps and release a variety of monsters, so all the classes out there are able to enjoy the benefits.

This isnt a petty complaint its a major concern so please take it seriously and do something about it.

Thanky You!

Orangeman21

04-20-2009, 08:40 AM

Ever since they added defense mask/bell and mogras people have been aoe crazy I remember when most tanks quit after lvl 101 because they couldn't aoe anymore and even when emp and aser were released very few tanks were brave enough/had enough defense for them before defense mask. Now everyone and their grandma has +6/+7 gears and aoe maps 30+ levels higher than them.

I think they should make all the maps 2/3 hard hitter or 3/3 hard hitter at higher level cause then the game is more challanging to level also would like to see ranged hard hitters to make it fair to both.

ggBuRNe

04-20-2009, 09:09 AM

but i dont want to deal with capru or cadon type damn !!! lol.. ok ok.. lets have cadon version instead of capru x.x ranged hard hitter ftl lol!.. Actually the develepor can make a mob in each map in east eir a hard hitter just like they made to aspa in edine last year.. aspa wasn't a hard hitter in the beginning but they made it a hard hitter later on.. I hope they can make one mob in east eir a hard hitter or maybe 2 hard hitters in amorica and bangle since both maps should be around level 140+ It is lame where 11x or 12x can tank them pretty easily..

NeoQueenElyse

04-20-2009, 11:51 AM

*slaps DJ* OK, now that I got that out of the way...

I completely agree with you DJ. To be honest, I prefer to do 1 by 1 and help kill with a ranger/archer or wizard. I find AoEing tiresome and repetitive. I did enjoy when Sirebrus would grab like 5 mobs and we'd blast the heck out of them and watch them die, while I spammed Major Heal. I find that to be fun and much more exciting. I was really trying to get my final levels before priest and it seemed like we'd have many mobs to pick from to kill, then all of a sudden an AoEr would come sweeping in take everything and only leave us with the one we were killing at that moment. At the very least they could have been considerate enough to leave the mobs close to us available for us to kill instead of being so greedy and selfish.

bobalitos

04-20-2009, 12:59 PM

this idea is actually better than giving us higher lvl bramble.

xyangster

04-20-2009, 01:13 PM

I feel bad when I see rangers or wizards soloing in the map where I am aoeing. I try to give a fist up if I'm on priest.

I would like for hardhitters to be added because they're a major test of skill for both tanks and healers. Since my primary chars are tank and healer, I benefit a lot from non-alpha maps. But it's really no fun if all I'm doing is clicking red dots or just keeping up buff. And I've seen binders in party that just stand afk for five minutes while the tank and healer run ahead. It's kind of ridiculous. For a healer, coordinating stuns and knowing when to run and where to run are such important skills, and now they are almost obsolete. Binders don't side kill or bother much with protecting the healer. *Sad ._.

bakuyaa

04-20-2009, 01:23 PM

Bring back the Alphas! Bring back the Alphas! shout it through all of xen :)

D-Styles

04-20-2009, 02:16 PM

Apparently, we just need more maps.

This sort of thing comes up every time a map is made without a hard hitter. The ranged attack people complain. I think the best solution is just to make more maps with some containing all hard hitters or 2/3 hard hitters like the desert maps. However, the desert maps are actually biased towards the ranged classes since most of the maps have 1/3 aoeable monsters. The earlier ice maps are more biased to the tankers.

I am not for a correction of the current maps. Instead, I would like to see a map added between each of the new aoeable maps with all hard hitters or 2/3 hard hitters. I think it is a joy to aoe maps without hard hitters like the caves, mines, library, and lost brynhild. When I get tired of easiness, I go solo or take some risks on the 1/3 maps which is quite fun.

I can totally understand the ranged classes wanting the same type of experience offered in East Eir without the hassle of dealing with respawn. While my scout is not a high enough level to experience any problems, most of my archer friends say it gets worse the higher the level you get. Nevertheless, lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I think the game is plenty hard enough (in terms of time required to play) to get to a high level. Why take away some of the tank’s joy? I say you can have your cake and eat it to. Keep the current maps as is and release additional maps with hard hitters in between even if you have to copy the same mobs and maps.

If you want more challenge, just play without Sparkcash. Missing 31 extra defense will make it much harder and give you a much better challenge. Then the pet and wing quests will be that much more popular and expensive adding additional challenge.

Poeple need to stop throwing out that "We need more maps" excuse. You forget, this game is adapted after xenepic and there isnt that many more maps, In fact the other day i ran through the desert maps to Turmeit and almost every map from Phildevilt up was almost completely empty. Theres enough maps for everyone, but it doesnt help when people clutter a map or try to suicide AOE a particular map (usually the hardest ones). That to me just tells me you just want the exp all handed to you, which is too easy with the east eir maps.

And you are wrong about the hardhitters. In the Ice and Desert maps, the Hardhitter/aoeble ratio in MANY maps are 2/4, which is very fair all around. The high level desert maps are more biased toward tanks because almost all of them had a Ranged mob except Turmeit. Alphas of course were annoying, but it still brings the challenge of protecting your healer and yourself, seems more like a lazy job than more challenging like it should be.

have maps with no hardhitters whatsoever is Truly biased toward Tanks, i would expect the same complaints from you if these maps were all made Hardhitters instead of non Hard hitters

poochyenarulez

04-20-2009, 05:00 PM

map with no hard hitters, easy for aoers, hard for long range attackers(when alot of people are aoeing)

maps with hard hitters, easy for long range attacker, hard for aoers..

keep it with no harder hitters, its alot easier and safer u ask me..
anyways, just take the bells out of sc, that would keep some people out of higher maps

and i thought u guys didn't like hardhitters, but now complaing about theres not any?..
hmm, but u guys also wanted more kron and xens and we seen how that turned out... (xmas event, kill deer and get xens, and the kron exploit)

saiguru

04-20-2009, 05:52 PM

Heres the root of the problem that causes the clutter on the final maps in the game: certain players that enjoy spending thier time playing the markets that create insanely souped up warrior gears so that theres a giant influx of them storming the new maps 20 levels earlier than they would be able to otherwise.

I enjoy watching a warrior who doesnt even have fireswing able to take every mob on the third to last map meant for levels 130 and up.

Its not the root of the problem really, its just stupid, like cleric aoe.

D-Styles

04-20-2009, 06:07 PM

map with no hard hitters, easy for aoers, hard for long range attackers(when alot of people are aoeing)

it isnt hard when theres nothing to kill...

maps with hard hitters, easy for long range attacker, hard for aoers..

No it is not easy, because we still have to watch for aggros and respawns still, that and it will also prove a challenge that's always been in the game for Mobbers (Hard Hitters). its Fair ALL AROUND.

keep it with no harder hitters, its alot easier and safer u ask me..
anyways, just take the bells out of sc, that would keep some people out of higher maps

let me ask you.. why should it be safer? The higher level and farther you explore should be more challenging every step, stop trying to be babied the whole way. "Hey lets go to the hardest map in the game, its just like a walk in the park!"

and i thought u guys didn't like hardhitters, but now complaing about theres not any?..
hmm, but u guys also wanted more kron and xens and we seen how that turned out... (xmas event, kill deer and get xens, and the kron exploit)

i can understand why a tanker wouldn't like a hard hitter, but i assure you it wouldn't be coming from many other people. Cant handle it then you don't belong there, go make a solo class if the hard hitters are bothering you that much, but not being able to deal with any kind of mob is worse.

Your posts' so far have proven the least relevant of anything. Why are you even bringing up the X'mas events? Dont even get me started there..

agha_torab

04-20-2009, 06:21 PM

poochyenarulez

04-20-2009, 07:05 PM

It's not a matter of making it easier for one type of player or another, its about presenting a challenge to those of us who have worked hard to reach a high level. I dont even train my healer at all anymore, it's too boring.

and its a challenge to train in amor because of respawns and stuff for soloer

and having hard hitters will make it an even more challenge to aoe amor, and if them aoers are like u and like challenges, THERE WILL JUST BE MORE AOERS!

can we just not have amor, and another map only hardhitter, both same lvl monsters, win, win since all the aoers will be in amor and every1 else will be in the all hardhitter/non aoeable map?

agha_torab

04-20-2009, 10:29 PM

Training in Amor is not a challenge, imo

Like I said, I can do things like feed the kids when I aoe there. For the ranged attackers that single kill, having a hard hitter won't really affect them that much, unless it's a skill user. It'll just make it harder for the AOErs, which I'm all for.

himoses

04-21-2009, 08:13 AM

I know the game is BASED on Xenepic. SOTS, as you already know, is quite different than Xenepic in many ways since it is customized to the American gamer.

Desert maps with more than 1 aoeable monsters: 3/11
Ice maps with more than 1 aoeable monsters after Edine (later ice maps): 0/11 (ice dungeon maps have 1 aoeable mob I am aware of on each floor)

The later desert maps and later ice maps mostly have one aoeable mob. I am not wrong. Earlier maps have 2/4 and 3/4 which is think is a good balance and challenge as well. Anyone who has played those maps knows that the few maps like Chant and Edine that only have 1 hard hitter are very competitive to aoe. People literally fight over these maps all the time and it is really quite annoying. Go 1-5 maps past there and those maps are almost always empty. Any of the new maps made 1/3 will make any other map that has less hard hitters more competitive without additional maps.

So now we are getting to the REAL argument. First, a few people that have played the game a long time and are hardcore are not happy about people catching up to them due to the availability of easier to aoe maps (easier exp). Second, many feel that the game should be getting harder as the game progresses. The trend of this game has been to get easier as we go along (like the dark lord quest and newbie quests). The introduction of ranged hard hitters was a nice challenge even though many tank classes quit due to
“inability” to aoe any more. Fortunately, there have been corrections that have been made to keep the game from getting too easy like adding a 24 hour cooldown to the unknown book quest (which has slowed the explosion of 96+ players) and adding hard hitters to Edine.

So far, the argument that I am reading is basically stating that the new maps are too easy and lower level players are leveling too quickly. In addition, ranged classes are getting left out of this since they generally cannot aoe. I already discussed that people wanting more challenge can use lower level gears or not use sparkcash. Not much response to that as I don’t think people like that concept. People want the best gears and want to be on top. Is there anything wrong with that? I personally don’t think so. Lets call a spade a spade people.

Since I am a CASUAL gamer, I like getting more experience for less work. I don’t want an easy game, but I would like to stand a chance of making the final class in a year if I play casually (I should not be catered to). .01 exp a kill will not get me there unless I increase my playing. Raising experience would take away from the higher levels achievements and may make the game too easy. That is why I like the new maps. They appear to be much easier but still require people to work for their levels. However, they do seem to be a drop off in difficulty from the ice and desert maps. That is why I support hard hitter additional maps. Preferably they would have some hard hitters and a boss (like a super hard giant zombie class type boss -maybe that would be a fun addition to the new maps instead of hard hitters). If there were all or ¾ hard hitter maps, there would be very little worry of aoers and ranged classes could solo without getting mobbed by respawns AND the tanks would still be ecstatic to have no hard hitters. Unfortunately, I concede that new maps would not solve the diminishing gap between high level hardcore veteran players and gaining level newer players.

Long post summarized, maybe add 1 hard hitter to each map AND a boss type creature and see it it works(maybe a boss only to the last map). I would like to see the boss drop some cool rare stuff like 3 leathers, xens, fairy powders, etc (instead of an insanely hard boss that gets you nothing like the clock and hobgoblin). Hopefully, the boss would definitely increase the challenge. Outspark might lose quite a few gamers by catering to the veterans like this. It’s not like Outspark would ever institute class specific dungeons in SOTS.

Maybe there is a better solution?

Is it wise to cater to the higher level veterans like this (hard hitters on existing maps instead of new maps with hard hitters)? It probably is since they helped make the game what it is.

Something must be done quickly to support our ranged classes. The cheap and easy way out is adding hard hitters and that is what we will probably get. Any solution needs to be quickly implemented before people get too accustomed to the way things are now.

bakuyaa

04-21-2009, 08:58 AM

himoses

04-21-2009, 12:06 PM

The problem isn't lower level tank class players catching up to the hardcore grinders, but the fact that long range classes simply have no were to train. Try going into a map were you intend to solo and find yourself competing for monsters with two tankers that together can pull the entire map. It simply is not possible and that is whats going on this instant.

The ranged classes are being sand bagged and forgotten especially the ranger class. Do we simply quite after achieving our last and final class change, ranger? And the wizard class having to rely on assist aoe to level. Are we not allowed to explore our class further and unlock the hidden secrets it holds? Having no map to train in means no progression! Go and try soloing or forming a party in the new maps and see what it feels like.

There are plenty of places for lower level scouts and archers to train. I have a 6x scout and have been mentored by a 10x level archer as to good maps to level. My poor lazy warrior takes 50+ damage on new maps so I tread cautiously, clutching my 7% pendants closely to my chest. I am familiar with respawns from the tank and non-tank classes. There are not good places for rangers from my understanding of what I have heard and what is on this thread. If you read my whole obnoxious long post, you will see that I begrudgingly support new maps to help our higher leveled ranged classes. I would also support 1 hard hitter and a boss on the current new maps if no additional new maps are going to be released to help our ranged classes meet their full potential. I have always supported balance in the game, even if it is to my main character's disadvantage. I am not enthusiastic on Outspark's quick response to release new maps (or quick response to anything non-sparkcash related) so I think hard hitters will be coming eventually to new maps. If that is what it takes to keep our ranged classes firing away, then I will begrudgingly support it. Hopefully, the other tankers will understand.

Particular love to the Wizards of the game. You all get the shaft the most... far more than the bow users.

Fingers crossed for a Wednesday update...

Eitaro

04-21-2009, 12:33 PM

I think the real problem is the availability of all these defense enhancing gears being released and in the SC shop. It just means now warriors can max their defense enough to AoE even the hardest maps. Adding mogras helm or other similar item will allow rangers to aoe too and exacerbate the problem by crowding the last maps near Bangle and Amorica even more since everyone will have better defense if they want.

This added with the rampant suicide AoEing strategy everyone is adopting means that AoEing is the best way to level. Solo'ers are a dying breed unless you have maps where mobs are doing at least 100-150 damage above the maximum armor that the best aoer can get. Even then, as the AoEr levels up and gets better gear, that gap will diminish and the same problem happens again.

I think the best solution is to have alternating maps with Alphas and 3/3s so that both types of players can thrive. I really don't mind solo'ing in Bangle even when there are AoE going on there all day. I've learned to adapt to it. I don't mind the respawns since I can handle them or know how to time it so I can warp at the right time. The only thing that can get irritating is when AoEr has no regard for you and pull all the mobs in the zone even though they know you are leveling there near the safezone. Then I end up having to chase them to get ahead just grab a mob.

Eitaro

04-21-2009, 12:42 PM

Thinking some more on it, the only way ranged soloer can lvl in any similar capacity or speed to an AoE build player is if there are monsters which give much more experience, but at the same time, hit for much much harder (cannot be AoE'd). Otherwise, even for ranger and archmage, aoe'ing will become the best way to level. Because in the end, it is about xp gained/hr whether you are a ranged player or an AoE player. This important number has to be the same for both classes of equivalent level if there is to be balance.

comp4ssion

04-21-2009, 01:24 PM

Let's see here....there are 5 graveyard maps and 7 jungle maps, and all are 3/3 maps...

Frankly (and flame me if you must, I'm simply stating opinions and not mentioning specific people), the 3/3 maps are a joke. Yes, it's possible to level like a weed if you can get into the right party....as a healer or a tank, that is. But racing against Rangers who are just trying to find something to kill in order to maximize the size of your mob while leaving said Ranger with nothing at all to kill? Sad. If not outright rude.

I noticed something else here....Has anyone else seen the number of new healers who don't know what Spirit does, who don't know how to handle hard hitters, who probably have never cast Guardianship even once in their entire healing career? (And believe it or not, yes, there are some active and leveling healers who have NEVER had to cast Guardianship or Spirit. Not once.) I think this is an outrage. Duoing with archers and Rangers (for the most part) is what GOT me to Priest in the first place. I was only 120% from Priest when the new maps came out, and I got that last 120% in Bangle and Amorica single-killing with Rangers. Before that, every single map I ever AOE assisted in (minus the library which was BORING as HELL) had hard hitters that you had to stun, kill, taze, beat with a crowbar, laugh at, or otherwise dispose of. 8x Clerics nowadays can wander around freely in the graveyard, buffing and healing. And doing absolutely nothing else. 8x Clerics BEFORE the 3/3 maps not only had these two simple responsibilities, but stunning hard hitters, guarding in the event of mass hard-hitter aggro, evading stunned hard hitters (which were often just as fast as you were) and keeping a close eye on following distances from tanks. Oh yeah....did I mention that all of this was for just under half the EXP?

I feel that with 12 3/3 maps, all of which can now be AOEd, that Priesthood has lost its meaning. Disagree if you want, I'll dare any 7x or 8x Cleric who's used to being coddled by the new maps to go pull a marathon stint in Aseraphel and stay there or in Turmeit with Archers until their mid-90s, like I and so many other Priests before me did.

So away from the ranting and back to the meat and potatoes here...there are 12 new maps. TWELVE. Even if three of these 3/3 maps were made into 2/3 maps, and three more were made into 1/3 maps...I still think that would do the trick. How many non-retired Rangers do we have now? A handful? Probably about as many as we'd see on any given evening in Turmeit a few days before the new maps came out? These Rangers would have three times the room to run around and blast critters freely without the threat of AOEr invasion, and earn twice the EXP they did in Turmeit. The 2/3 maps? They're AOEable, sure. Might see a Ranger in them every now and then too. But tanks would at least need to bring along a good and trustworthy healer who knows what things like Guardianship, Spirit, Ghost, and Fury are for. The healery have-nots, would be able to continue partying in the six maps left over.

This way, regardless of who you are and your skill level, you'd still have a chance to level up.

And Wizzy-types, don't feel ignored by the wording of this post. I know and took into account (albeit not verbally so) that you fellas and ladies like to kite critters just like your arrow-happy counterparts, and I feel that this solution works well for you too. Besides, when you get sick of soloing, odds are that one of the maps next to yours will be one of those 2/3 or 3/3 maps where someone just might want a good binder.

All this having been said (and with great verbosity, for which I apologize), I will once again state that this is all just my opinion. You can like it, you can hate it, but it's mine and I'm entitled to it. Thanks for reading, and good day.

dakidda913

04-21-2009, 03:03 PM

like everything in this game,once you implement something that is easy and take it out, especially over a long period of time, it gives an unfair advantage to all those people who obtained 4th class already grinding those maps. My solution would be to maps maybe south of Jot with all hard hitters for ranged classes to grind in, instead of making it difficult and unfair to the new people who almost ready to grind the east eir maps. Perhaps make south jot maps 3/3 and ALOT more exp than the east eir maps.

Maybe the reason people invest in souped up gear is that the next "Aoeable" map is emperonie (A lvl 115) or Templar Gorge(A lvl 118 map). Map's up to there are all hard hitters 1/3. Now DJ, if I'm not mistaken, Turmeit runs at 131. now turmeit is also a 1/3. I see no problem here. And by the way, those people that can aoe the new maps have invested a lot of hard work farming for there gears. And this also includes real life cash. I'm done ranting.

agha_torab

04-21-2009, 05:40 PM

Templar is the equivalent of Turmeit in level, but there's just no hardhitters. It ran at the same time for me. It seems lower because you dont have Storms and Cadon's beating the crap out of you.

TRXSTA

04-21-2009, 06:56 PM

I agree! Take off the cooldown on library quest!

... Not.

NeoQueenElyse

04-22-2009, 06:30 AM

Very well said Compassion. I have been playing this game since Closed Beta and started on day 1 of Open Beta and have worked very hard for my level. It seems to come in spurts where something will come out that will help people level super fast and then they get very high and don't know what the heck they're doing with their class, then end up quitting because they get bored since they leveled so fast. I was disgusted by how people that had been playing for about 3 weeks suddenly end up getting priest! I was very upset and disheartened because I had been playing for over a year when the new maps came out and I hadn't made it to my third class change yet (mostly because I'd take breaks here and there and just dealing with having a busy life outside of Solstice lol). I felt like I had accomplished something when I got to priest, but it seems like everyone wants to be as high as possible as soon as they start. I'm sick of people asking to be power-leveled and asking if they can leech--if you can't contribute to the killing then why the heck are you out here? I was seeing acolytes in Templar and beyond. Most of them die in one hit and only have level 2 bless and fist. Why would you be in a place that's so far above your level? Yeah the experience I'm sure is great and all, but you're not learning much of anything that way. I don't know I guess it bugs me because I worked hard and it seems like they can get 96 in no time with no problems. I remember when Eir first came out and when AoEing first started. I'm sorry if I'm rambling lol. I am at work and am trying to do a million things at once. -_-

hoanghiep

04-22-2009, 08:15 AM

How are you everyone?
Nicely said compassion, I couldn't agree with you more. That was an awesome speech you made and it hit all the key points. I couldnt have put it together any better than you did.
As one of those "handful" rangers you mentioned of, I wanna say something too. It's already a pain being in a map with aoers, like in Turmeit or whatever, where I used to train all the time. Cause of major respawn and lack of mobs to kill, but the Jungle map, especially Amorcia IS 10 times worse. Why you ask?
In turmeit, there were only a few people who actually mob and aoe. Even if they do, they can only gather 20-30 at a time, because of all the hard hitters and also...whatever that pancake monster is, their atk can stun you. In amorcia, there are mobbers everywhere and they are like on drugs all the time lol. Pulling as much as you can, it's like a competition over there at amor all the time. This lead to overmobbing and many time...people die, leaving behind...yeah <<
On the other hand, people mob everything! there's no mob left for party who is killing one by one or soloer, such as ranger and some wizzie. And BAM out of no where came a massive respawn that kill you in less than 5 secs.
And yesh, I totally agree on the "lvling so fast they don't know crap." comment. I have met a few healer and wizzie, even tanker that know absolutely nothing. All they know is aoe, and whine. Especially the healer, which sadly to say....some of them can't even get the rebuff timing right. I have been in this party with 3 healers, i repeat 3 healers. and they focus all healing and buff on the mobbers. Not one of them turn around and buff the other, not one of them guardianship the mobbers, and not one of them seem to have a clue what to do when something unexpected come.
My guild party a lot at Amorcia, we aoe sometimes, but often we kill one by one. Even if we do aoe, I always shout killing and always limit my mobber to a certain number of mobs, we never ever attempt to pull like half a map and kill everyone with respawn. That's selfish. Yesh in my opinion, all of you who are pulling the entire map, not shouting when kill, leechers, are selfish individual.
Move on to the leechers and plvlers. I don't know how many time I have said this. You simply do not learn anything without actually train for those exp!!! So wut if you're a high lvl priest, wizzie, warrior, templar, ranger or assasin? if you don't have the skill to back it up, it doesnt' mean anything. I played this game for a year, I trained hard and have been to every single map there is in this game and I'm proud of myself. I don't find it boring cause, heck I got used to it already and 0.005-0.01 per kill to me is not even an issue anymore. I know for a fact there are people out there who would scrreeeeam if they get 0.01 per kill lol.
Please respect each other and all share. I don't think it's that hard of a thing to do. And leecher or people who ask for plvl, stop. You're only ruining yourself. Dr. Sexy is the lastest example of "you got no recognition from me". Strengthen your skill, as far as I know, Synergy (sowwy for other who party there if I offend you) is, was and still is the only party in Amorcia that kill one by one. (we do aoe here and there but most of us prefer one by one) And according to Moreoner, we're the best non-aoe party. I don't think we would have ever get that compliment if we aoe all day and nothing else.

D-Styles

04-22-2009, 10:50 AM

Maybe the reason people invest in souped up gear is that the next "Aoeable" map is emperonie (A lvl 115) or Templar Gorge(A lvl 118 map). Map's up to there are all hard hitters 1/3. Now DJ, if I'm not mistaken, Turmeit runs at 131. now turmeit is also a 1/3. I see no problem here. And by the way, those people that can aoe the new maps have invested a lot of hard work farming for there gears. And this also includes real life cash. I'm done ranting.

Lol, ok first of all....

Both Emperonie and Aser are 2/3 aoeable ratio, while Cretino and Turmeit are 1/3 ratio. so no.. those maps are NOT all hard hitters, that's a fair placement if you ask me.

second..

i know of many people 3rd class and up, that haven't farmed for a single 6ap gear or other items they possess, but because they have taken advantage of glitches, exploits, scams etc. Just look at how many people shout for items that can drop if you just grind regularly.. That and i really dont understand your last statement, because me including many others have worked hard farming our own gears as well plus the fact that i too spend money on this game.

agha_torab

04-22-2009, 12:10 PM

I think Siph was suggesting that the single killers can stay in Turmeit until it runs at 131. But the whole point of being ranged is that you can fight red monsters.

bobalitos

04-22-2009, 12:15 PM

hopefully they do something about this like they did the library quest.

siruschaos

04-22-2009, 12:54 PM

Ok time for my input...and first of all, I would certainly love to have the alphas aka hard hitters back in all high level maps. I simply want that challenge back in order to enjoy this game more. Something that actually puts me on the edge and really take some focus and technique. These maps feel like the Brynhild Trisects for "high levels", who can simply aoe, no actual map level required.

Putting back in alphas would help control the aoeing and benefit the soloists, cause I know first of all not barely many can even tolerate such grinding constantly. Those aoers who tank as much as they can to the full map are nothing more than thinking with greed. Even I know its not effcient to take everything in sight...I take alot perhaps, but if I see a nearby party or person trying to find some mobs to kill, I'll skip over or go an opposite direction if able. Though with all the clutter with aoe that goes on nowadays...its hard for me not to lag and keep full control. Another thing that happens mostly from being able to pull so many mobs.

I personally would like to relinquish this benefit of 3/3 aoe in order to bring more ease to not only to the soloists, but to myself. Bring back that meaning of challenge and achievement, I say. Because even with it, I will still continue to grind and even aoe...just adapt to the right amount that's meant to be.

The only thing I find "hard" now in this game, is dealing with all the rest of the gambling factors that plague this game as if it were a casino...no skill, only luck. Ugh.

bobalitos

04-22-2009, 01:37 PM

it seems to me that all classes are in favor of this, even those who are most likely to oppose the idea (tanks).

there shouldnt be any reason why this change should not happen

Request: please don't make the alphas a long range mob >.<

dakidda913

04-22-2009, 10:47 PM

yes, that is what I meant, but still personally, It bugs me that all the people complain after getting 4th class or 131+, I agree with making some of those maps have hard hitters, or at least, make those birds eat your items in graveyard maps. Perhaps place hard hitters in big apple,harding,mardigras, and amorica because of the way the map flows.

Euphie

04-22-2009, 11:17 PM

Lower warriors' def build :P

bloodly-chan

04-23-2009, 02:45 PM

I noticed something else here....Has anyone else seen the number of new healers who don't know what Spirit does, who don't know how to handle hard hitters, who probably have never cast Guardianship even once in their entire healing career?

I feel that with 12 3/3 maps, all of which can now be AOEd, that Priesthood has lost its meaning. Disagree if you want, I'll dare any 7x or 8x Cleric who's used to being coddled by the new maps to go pull a marathon stint in Aseraphel and stay there or in Turmeit with Archers until their mid-90s, like I and so many other Priests before me did.

Might see a Ranger in them every now and then too. But tanks would at least need to bring along a good and trustworthy healer who knows what things like Guardianship, Spirit, Ghost, and Fury are for. The healery have-nots, would be able to continue partying in the six maps left over.

Nice rant, Comp. Took me a few times to totally get all the points.
I have to dissagree slightly on the last point that you've made. I've done my fair share of aoe of the new maps, and I don't think many tanks need a "trustworthy healer" who knows how to play the healer class to the max anymore. I've had to relocate my game playing to a computer that is sligtly laggy, and none of the tanks that I've aoed with thus far have a problem. Except those who have taken me before my movement.

For example, I aoe with my good friend Michi quite often. She's a HA so she has her [uberhax] AG. Aka autohealing. The damage she takes in our map is perfect, really. Something around 15 damage. So there's really not much for me to do other than to follow and buff, and gs every one and then if the need arises. However, there really ISN'T much of a need unless she gathers a huge mob, which hardly ever happens. There's no need for me to spirit anything, and she does a great job of keeping the agros off me. I can essentially afk for 2 minutes at a time [well of course she needs bless xD'] and nothing bad will happen as long as I'm not agroed.

But besides that, everything else I agree 120% on. Especially the other bolded parts. It's just not the same with all aoeable mobs.

I think the real problem is the availability of all these defense enhancing gears being released and in the SC shop. It just means now warriors can max their defense enough to AoE even the hardest maps. Adding mogras helm or other similar item will allow rangers to aoe too and exacerbate the problem by crowding the last maps near Bangle and Amorica even more since everyone will have better defense if they want.

This added with the rampant suicide AoEing strategy everyone is adopting means that AoEing is the best way to level. Solo'ers are a dying breed unless you have maps where mobs are doing at least 100-150 damage above the maximum armor that the best aoer can get. Even then, as the AoEr levels up and gets better gear, that gap will diminish and the same problem happens again.

This, I think, leads to bad healers as well. When someone's suicide aoeing, all I personally do as a healer is to spam cooling, and try to get in a bless every 2 and a half minutes. There's really no time to stun hard hitters, or to do anything else. And once, I feel, these 'suicide clerics' get out of suicide aoe, they're in for a rude awakening.

it seems to me that all classes are in favor of this, even those who are most likely to oppose the idea (tanks).

there shouldnt be any reason why this change should not happen

Request: please don't make the alphas a long range mob >.<
long ranged alpha mob = uber hurt. </3 Please no more camels.

xyangster

04-23-2009, 04:50 PM

Request: please don't make the alphas a long range mob >.<

Slightly off-topic: As a tank, I love ranged alphas. They are easy to pick out and easy to outrun. They also make it easy for me to tell when my healers aren't paying attention.

As for suicide aoe, it annoys me to no ends when I see non-AG templars or warriors trying to mob maps where they take 17-20+. It's not at all safe for anyone one else in the vicinity, including their healer, and they are able to do this only because they don't have to stop and deal with alphas.

I and all the tanks before me had to deal with the 101+ gap, when Edine was already running and def wasn't quite enough for Emperonie and beyond (though that changed with halloween mask and cowbell). I had to aoe maps like Simpson, where only one mob was aoe-able, and there were two alphas, one of which was ranged. I see tanks today shouting to suicide aoe the new maps without putting in the effort to learn how real mobbing actually works (passing straight from library to Templar Gorge) or investing in their def. When it doesn't go well, they get frustrated and start shouting for "competent" healers who can spam heal. As someone that has played both a tank and a healer in Simpson+ ice maps and Emperonie+ desert maps, I find it hard to understand or respect the people that rush to suicide aoe.

bobalitos

04-23-2009, 05:08 PM

Offtopic:

As cleric and archer i have uber hate for long range alpha (T_T) Especially those icemap monsters who were/are always out to get me :( As well as the "illusion quake" mobs in the desert >.<

But as tank, yes they are easy to leave behind/stun. But they can annoy.

agha_torab

04-23-2009, 09:13 PM

I always liked them as healer for the same reason Kremie mentioned. So easy to pick off the tank.

Kayarine

04-23-2009, 09:58 PM

Oh c'mon guys, they're asking for hard hitters so long ranged can solo, and you're saying long ranged mobs are okay? Long ranged classes vs. long ranged mobs don't really match well togheter. xD Gotta spam HP (rangers) or MP (wizzes) pots while you're soloing those... D:

Just my opinion though. xD

ggBuRNe

04-24-2009, 12:00 AM

2/3 hard hitter like turmeit for all east eir map. bwahahaha !

Off Topic : Actually, who cares if they take 20-100 suicide aoe damage.. Everybody wants fast exp.. If I wasn't suicide for 40+, I wouldn't reach archmage forever and back then who knew that they were going to release east eir map few months earlier.. OH WAIT! I DO CARE.. You freaking suicide tanker kills the mobs freaking slow and it is hell annoying!!! Slow kill + taking constant high damage is sux.. You are hurting your healer and wasting your overall time for exp! !As for healers : In fact, a REAL good healer is a the one who can handle all kind of grinding conditions including normal aoe up to suicide, duo, or big party and good at using their skills (including spirit and guardianship!!!!) and always hear their party mate or tanker advices and instructions, unlike some big headed smart *** healer (who thinks they are smart).. I hate many healers just for the fact that they couldn't understand what I expected of them and wanted them to do.. Many who are so called good in regular aoe are sometimes sux in suicide which makes them not a complete healer.. Most healers think all players are the same, thus they do the same to others.. However, some players or tankers do not know how to play their class.. If they don't really know what they are doing, leave them and if you are not confident with yourself, just leave the party.. Idk why I rant about this today X.X I just want to say most of you smart *** healer are not good.. Only a few are superb awesome.. I hate when you not so good healer tries to show off your smartass comment because it is just plain annoying.. All I noticed is that most top class healers do not comment much about healing, instead they demonstrate through their actions and don't freaking talk/chat/whisper or pause while healing or under attacked x.x <RANT RANT x.x><Don't take this personally.. I just feel like ranting about healers because everytime i think about their stupidity in healing, it just ticked me off and those tankers who kill slow like a snail!!>

ON TOPIC: Any kind of hard hitters would do.. I just dont like long range and stun.. They are not going to change the mobs from close distance to long range, maybe they would just add attribute and effect to their hit such as stun or curse.. xD

comp4ssion

04-24-2009, 12:27 AM

Nice rant, Comp. Took me a few times to totally get all the points.
I have to dissagree slightly on the last point that you've made. I've done my fair share of aoe of the new maps, and I don't think many tanks need a "trustworthy healer" who knows how to play the healer class to the max anymore. I've had to relocate my game playing to a computer that is sligtly laggy, and none of the tanks that I've aoed with thus far have a problem. Except those who have taken me before my movement.

For example, I aoe with my good friend Michi quite often. She's a HA so she has her [uberhax] AG. Aka autohealing. The damage she takes in our map is perfect, really. Something around 15 damage. So there's really not much for me to do other than to follow and buff, and gs every one and then if the need arises. However, there really ISN'T much of a need unless she gathers a huge mob, which hardly ever happens. There's no need for me to spirit anything, and she does a great job of keeping the agros off me. I can essentially afk for 2 minutes at a time [well of course she needs bless xD'] and nothing bad will happen as long as I'm not agroed.

But besides that, everything else I agree 120% on. Especially the other bolded parts. It's just not the same with all aoeable mobs.

It appears to me that you misunderstood part of my post slightly...my intent was to convey that said trustworthy healer would need to be brought along if hard-hitters were added to the new maps. Other than that, though, it is always good to see that I'm on the same page as my fellow healers. And you're absolutely right, it's just...not the same.

agha_torab

04-24-2009, 04:41 AM

I of course haven't fought long-ranged alphas on my magic user, but I have absolutely no problem with them on my archer at all. My attack reaches further than their's so I just need to keep a good distance while killing.

I agree about the healers too. There aren't very many that I fully respect and consider "good" at their class.

bobalitos

04-24-2009, 04:46 PM

Euphie

04-24-2009, 07:03 PM

o____________________________O

this might come as a surprise for some people but i agreee with foger wholeheartedly =P

1. aoe suicide taking so slow to kill is annoying (use assist aoers more!:p)
2. Good healers adapt to all the situations very well
3. not so good healer talking about how to be a good healer= FAIL :3

JUST PLEASE GIVE US SOME HARD HITTERS :3!
OT: I suck at healer then. D:

bobalitos

04-24-2009, 07:58 PM

OT: I suck at healer then. D:

what is you talking about :3
you liez XD

holli_hobbi

04-25-2009, 12:40 PM

I agree, add hard hitters to the new maps. Not only will it make it possible for ranged characters to solo there, it will also help keep the really low lvl chars out. My main is a cleric, and I busted my rear to get my levels. I didn't go heal on maps way to high for me. Two days ago I went and healed for a warrior on the new maps for the first time, expecting to pry die. It was way too easy and almost boring. I almost felt like a defense pet, just following along casting bless once in a while and helping pick up drops. AND it made my ranged friends mad that I would help one of those aoers take the whole map.

s2galm

04-26-2009, 12:06 AM

Anyone Like Sushi? xD

AnimePimp66

04-26-2009, 12:29 AM

grrr long range mobs i remember solo fine in asser then outa knowhere it like a high lv priest come and try to pk me outa nowhere(caperu xD) if caught at wrong time iwth low mp it easy kill for the capa ! xD but i dont care really if ranged that one more reason to make a complete safe non selfish pt to aoe lol.

Turbo-X-

04-26-2009, 12:54 AM

Make the last 3 maps of east eir maps ALL hardhitters muahahah.. no aoe for joo. Now that would be a challenge, a map with all hard hitters XDD

ggBuRNe

04-26-2009, 02:36 AM

Make the last 3 maps of east eir maps ALL hardhitters muahahah.. no aoe for joo. Now that would be a challenge, a map with all hard hitters XDD

then some peepo tankers will make a new thread about overcrowding of aoers/tankers in tincrush and lower east eir maps.. fair enough for HA

poochyenarulez

04-26-2009, 07:38 AM

make sleepless grave drop rare items, or quest item or something, then high lvls will aoe there, and not amor...

bakuyaa

04-26-2009, 08:39 AM

Almost all the dungeons are not worth grinding in. I don't know why they bother releasing incomplete dungeons. Dungeons are supposed to have quests involved so there worth going to.

OmegaTrooper

04-26-2009, 09:17 AM

I think they should just raise the required defense on the mobs I mean they are 150+ mobs balance the game like people below 130 are aoeing there all the time it gets ridiculous there are the lower maps that can be aoed and no one even bothers using turmiet or desert maps.

QueenPixie

04-26-2009, 09:42 AM

Wow I don't even play anymore but I support ya:D LOL@nubaoers

TRXSTA

04-26-2009, 10:01 AM

SC defence at its finest. 8D

agha_torab

04-26-2009, 01:10 PM

The dungeons do have quests. Just not for Rangers and Holy Avengers. :P

bakuyaa

04-26-2009, 01:25 PM

Dungeons have specific quests and drop unique items like the library. All the dungeons in xenepic drop a unique items that prove useful. I don't consider class change quest a dungeon quest.

agha_torab

04-26-2009, 01:32 PM

So you want another library type quest?

D-Styles

04-27-2009, 01:13 AM

The heck, i dont see how making Dungeons give special drops and quests are gonna help. The only thing that will do is make it "the high level version of Lost Byrn", "or the library", and will only encourage a few farming here and there, then people can spam sell/buy those items. But still terrible for grinding overall, even if they curved the exp higher, the amount of time to kill dungeon mobs for their lvl isnt worth it..

Anyway, you want something done to dungeons, go make a new thread about it... dont talk about it here foos

yanane

04-27-2009, 02:09 AM

Almost all the dungeons are not worth grinding in. I don't know why they bother releasing incomplete dungeons. Dungeons are supposed to have quests involved so there worth going to.

Dungeons have specific quests and drop unique items like the library. All the dungeons in xenepic drop a unique items that prove useful. I don't consider class change quest a dungeon quest.

Looks like you're contradicting yourself :)
Each dungeon has its quest with its specific items, doesnt it ?
Mythril mines -> punitive expeditions quests
Cobalt Cave -> Eroded souls quest and new ordeal quest
Pirate Ship -> Sea people pages
Lost Bryn -> Bones quests
Library -> Books quests
Sleepless Grave & Ice dungeon -> instantly killed at entrance atm so dunno
Eaglerentin chapel dungeon -> too noob to get in atm :'(
Or do you mean the boss from each dungeon should drop a unique special item like an accessory ? I agree that it would be cool cause I was a little dissapointed for not getting anything after killing the Ghost Captain in pirate ship ^^.

there are the lower maps that can be aoed and no one even bothers using turmiet or desert maps.
No one is aoeing those maps because those cannot be aoed, or are a royal pain to aoe. But desert maps arent that desert... You do see some brave archers soloing the place.

I do think it would be fair to bring hard hitters to East Eir map since some people really are greedy about map sharing and wipes all the mon in their way, when some other would leave 3-4 mon behind them when they meet a party or a soloer... But I also want to aoe those place HH free when I get the def to :P

And since you guys are talking about adding hard hitters, Im gonna ask another thing : please remove at least one hard hitter from south Edine maps. I think it would only do some good to the game...
- Those maps are empty, so it wont hurt anybody
- People from lvl 96 to 110 with crappy gears like me would have a place to aoe for better gears
- I really think that would lower the price for warrior gears and any 96-102 gears, because I feel there is a gap in the availability of those gears, since the maps where they drop arent aoeable. Or was it meant to be this way ?

That could be easily done I think by just turning aspa back to being a aoe monster ( and make coplance the HH, which would make more sense in someway since he's the biggest mon of the map :) ) and tweak the rest of south Edine maps in the same way...

ggBuRNe

04-27-2009, 03:13 AM

But I also want to aoe those place HH free when I get the def to :P

And since you guys are talking about adding hard hitters, Im gonna ask another thing : please remove at least one hard hitter from south Edine maps. I think it would only do some good to the game...
- Those maps are empty, so it wont hurt anybody
- People from lvl 96 to 110 with crappy gears like me would have a place to aoe for better gears
- I really think that would lower the price for warrior gears and any 96-102 gears, because I feel there is a gap in the availability of those gears, since the maps where they drop arent aoeable. Or was it meant to be this way ?

That could be easily done I think by just turning aspa back to being a aoe monster ( and make coplance the HH, which would make more sense in someway since he's the biggest mon of the map :) ) and tweak the rest of south Edine maps in the same way...

you are just the same as those greedy tankers. you just want a whole map. can't you just tank small or hell, try solo killing sometimes. it's not like the end of your grinding world without taking whole map or aoe..

saiguru

04-27-2009, 04:50 AM

ggBuRNe

04-27-2009, 05:17 AM

This is sweet!

while you guys argue the logistics of who the game isnt fair to i've been taking whole maps and getting exp!

There is no greedy. The point of the game is to get the most exp as fast as possible and if i gotta screw a few rangers over by taking everything in sight, then good!

hahahaahaha.

unless its dj, id leave one mob for him. this is all, of course IF i culd even take a whole map. I dont know, im not greedy.

true though.. the point of this game is to get all the exp as much but who doesn't hate overcrowding of maps, aoers and such.. I'd wish to hold a map many times.. but of course i couldn't.. anyway, the point of the thread is to introduce hard hitters to east eir maps to allow range users or other parties to enjoy the map. xD

saiguru

04-27-2009, 05:49 AM

Eh, you know me foger, i'm never on topic.

I am all for anything up to and including adding hard hitters to these maps that would allow for the discouraging of walking accounts as low as level 70 through these maps to haunt SZ's and beg for parties they can join where they cant do anything but make levels from thin air. So, if adding some hard hitters can allow DJ to enjoy a map more as well as reduce my urge to lave one mob around a lil ill defenseless low level so i can watch them run in panic trying not to die and lose thier free exp. then bring hard hitters!

and rangers fairness and all that blah blahblah blah.

I also want the maps to be more sunny, i think the lighting is bad, and they dont have enough trees, some of the later ones anyway.

yanane

04-27-2009, 06:26 AM

you are just the same as those greedy tankers. you just want a whole map. can't you just tank small or hell, try solo killing sometimes.

Dont be so aggressive :eek: ! And please dont classify me as 'greedy' if you havent seen me playing... No wonder you're the Bad And Meany Fogger :D !

Of course I want a whole map :D ! If no one is there, it wont harm anybody.
But I dont mind duo or sharing if someone arrives, even leave the spot if I've been there for like an hour. When I meet a party or a solo killer, I do leave some monsters behind. Which sometimes lead some healers assisting me to think that I didnt see those monsters...
In a general way, I always tried to respect that 'AOE etiquette' that has been unofficialy established by the players. All this because I want to enjoy the game and help making it enjoyable to everybody...
As for the way I tank, I never solo tank whole maps, only half to third, not because Im not greedy :), but because it's faster gathering, faster killing (no mob lock) and of course faster exp. And you know what ? After dying a couple times from mob lock in my first noobish aoe sessions(I was collecting whole maps:D), I went to seek knowledge in the forum and learned this from a post that was written by... you lol !
And about solo killing...
Till I hit lvl 51, I cant remember how many poyos I've solo killed...
Also, being usually xen poor, I cant afford satisfaction gears that people sell, so my only option left is to try to farm those from solo killing... Why do you think I know so well that the desert maps and south Edine maps are empty ;) ?

Anyway, no hard feelings, I can understand you as I know many of my fellow Warriors are just blind and mindless killing machines wiping everything in their way :D, which makes all Warriors labelled as greedy to you...

agha_torab

04-27-2009, 07:44 AM

you are just the same as those greedy tankers. you just want a whole map. can't you just tank small or hell, try solo killing sometimes. it's not like the end of your grinding world without taking whole map or aoe..
I've actually ran into Yanane's knight twice now in Acidbath on my archer, and partied up with her and single killed mobs all the way up to Taq.

ggBuRNe

04-27-2009, 07:49 AM

Anyway, no hard feelings, I can understand you as I know many of my fellow Warriors are just blind and mindless killing machines wiping everything in their way :D, which makes all Warriors labelled as greedy to you...

ahaaa

yeah that is true, many of them are greedy, some are not, some are nice whatsoever.. Really some are very nice and I respect them (eg ashkai) However, for you to ask for no hardhitter in empty map is idk what to say though, is just not right.. That provoked me to think that you want to grab whole map to kill them all.. This is contradicting with what you had just said on your last post.. Why would you want a whole map if you were generous enough to left the mobs behind or killed only 1/2 or 3/4 of them ?? Hmm, I think I get what you meant.. You just want them not to be HH for smooth aoe.. However, if that was implemented, all tankers would ask for all maps not to have a single HH and that would promote more overcrowding of aoes on each map and lead to depletion of range classes (rangers and mages).. Do you see me now?

Anyway, lets go back to the point of the thread.. which is to introduce hard hitters to east eir map shall we? xD

ggBuRNe

04-27-2009, 07:52 AM

I've actually ran into Yanane's knight twice now in Acidbath on my archer, and partied up with her and single killed mobs all the way up to Taq.

i don't know that. I was just saying why would she asked for a whole map not to be HH even if it is empty. That was enough for me to think that she is greedy. I may be wrong but that was the conclusion of what i got from her words. No hard feelings XD

tazsbigtoy

04-27-2009, 08:30 AM

Was she asking for them to remove all hard hitters? I thought she just wanted them to maybe turn one hard hitter in each map to an aoeable mob. I think most of those maps past edine have only one aoeable mob and often only 7 or 8 of them. I think maybe those maps were intended for party grinding rather than aoe or solo grinding. Especially with the magic using mobs. I don't really see anything wrong with making them more aoe friendly. It might make them more popular and pull some of the people out of the new maps as well as Chant, Edine, Morpheus, and Daniella. I kind of like Edine the way it is though, with the map being 2/4 but becoming 3/4 when your defense goes up. Almost noone uses those maps now and as crowded as the rest of the maps are that is a waste.

ggBuRNe

04-27-2009, 08:55 AM

mann.. that is true.. those maps are empty because there are new maps with far better exp.. that would promote the tankers to ask all maps to have less HH or no HH at all and lead to depletion of range classes.. In fact, I don't think that will remove people from new maps to that.. We all know those lvl 130+ maps have all better exp even if u tank whole map of south edine.

yanane

04-27-2009, 09:04 AM

bobalitos

04-27-2009, 09:29 AM

i bet if they made the maps with 1/3 aoe monsters without long range mobs, party aoe would be encouraged. suicide aoe (0/3 or 1/3 aoe monsters) would require tanks to ask for more and more wiz and healer help and archers will have monsters to kill solo.

OR they could make 2/3 aoe map but increase the HP of the 2 aoeable monsters so they will die so slow if tanks don't bring mages to help kill, but leave the 1/3 alpha with enough HP for archer to solo good enough--but give these alphas a stun skill or something so the tanks don't take advantage of them. o___O

tanks will pull, magic class will assist and archer class will be soloing.

Just a shame it didnt really get popular back in the sherwood days. Ive seen it work really well...
friggin tanks!! go to icemaps, and take some mages/wiz to help you keeel :( *end rant*

*PLEASEEEE GIVE US ALPHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA *

ggBuRNe

04-27-2009, 09:33 AM

*on topic*
I really dont mind if they put HH to the east Eir maps since I can somehow manage HH when I aoe, so when I get to aoe those maps it wouldnt be any different from what I usually do. It's just that it is so much fun to aoe a map that doesnt have any HH like in lost bryn.
Just dont make the same error as desert map or south Edine maps. There should be 2 AOE monster for 1 HH, and not 2 HH for 1 AOE monster... I think this way everybody should be satisfied.

*off topic though kind of still on topic*
You misunderstood me Foger ^^, I didnt say remove all HH from south Edine, but make it a 1HH/3 ratio instead of a 2HH/3 ratio. 2 HH on a map is just too hard.
If those maps were intended for party grinding, the problem would then be that nobody does grinding party past lvl 66. Grinding party sure are fun, but the exp less fun...
If you removed all hard hitters from south Edine, the maps would be instantly crowded and you would have the same problem that started this thread :D

Hmm, that south edine maps (till sherwood) are equivalent to desert map up until Taq.. People doesn't go there anymore because there are better maps in east eir with no hard hitters.. Therefore, the only way to push lowbies out is to introduce HH in east eir.

Btw, it is not an error for 2/3 or 2/4 hardhitter maps. It is a challenge. I was able to pass through turmeit 2/3 up until 131. Charon and some others were able to pass through 2/3 up until 12x -131, so it is not an issue not to able to grind right? yeah it is fun without a single HH, no wonder more people are overcrowding east eir. Once a tanker passes 100+, most of them would go straight to east eir.. Hmmmm wait! 1/3 would still cause trouble to party or range users just like in emprione and aseraphil.. 2/3 or 2/4 is the way to go xD lol ! Remember how good phil was? turmeit? yeah 2/3 is more preferable. 1/3 or 2/3 as long as there are hardhitters.

Aww man, why I keep saying tankers ! Let me rephrase, tankers + low level players would jump straight to east eir maps for fast exp.. You know sai, those players won't leave even if they put 2/3 like turmeit but it would be fun to see them die many times bwahahha !

OK ! We are discussing about introducing of HH in east eir.. I believe if you want a removal of a HH, please make another thread.. I'm not against your idea but here is not the place to discuss about it.. I don't want to throw tomatoes onto DJ if this thread failed ! LMAO ! :D

Btw, when I said tankers, I meant those low level tankers who are leveling at the wrong map not according to their level and normality.. I respect those who work their asses the right way, from step to step, not just jump straight to 20-70 maps above them :D especially unknown faces who suddenly appears out of nowhere asking for aoe, pt, or jump straight with a healer aoe, and causing overcrowding.

PS: Please show some respect to the OP. This is getting annoying with irrelevant and out of topic stuffs. Please stay on topic.

TRXSTA

04-27-2009, 09:39 AM

Introduce hard hitters. Then take out defence masks and double the SC cost of defence cloak. Ahaha. Problem solved for everyone.

Archers can solo, tanks with the defence to AOE is greatly reduced, single kill parties can exist and Outspark loses minimal money. Everybody wins except the tanks who suck and eventually quit. Wahaha.

himoses

04-27-2009, 12:54 PM

I am not quite sure why people are stating that changing the hard hitters on some of the south edine maps is NOT related to the issue at hand about adding hard hitters to East Eir maps. Adding hard hitters to East Eir while eliminating some hard hitters in other maps would be an adequate tradeoff for many tank classes in terms of map balance. It would be easy and cheap for Outspark to put into practice and would help alleviate some log jams in maps like Edine, Chant, and East Eir. Otherwise, only adding hard hitters would cause tank threads about how the game is biased towards rangers and archmages. That would be a funny change given the preferential treatment the tank classes historically receive (and not unnecessarily unwarranted since tanks vastly outnumber ranged classes).

tengokuken

04-27-2009, 01:03 PM

Tbh, could the reason be why people can jump map so fast would be cause of the sc deff gears... I mean, were those counted when they initially did the game? Just a thought... deff pet doesn't help though...

On Topic: I'm totally for hard hitter! As a Priest, I find no challenge in healing tankers who mobs 1-2dmg aoe. The only way for me to be busy and entertain is by doing some heavy dmg aoe like 12-18. To most of you, it seems greedy to do aoe with high dmg, but of course, people who mob high dmg like that will never mob all map! That's how I like it.

As a former Archer, I'd say those maps are hell for all of us solo/duo/party people. I haven't played my Artea in those maps yet cause I'm still at Turmeit. However, I see other Ranger trying to play and everytime I see them I try to buff them on my Priest. Kinda my way to say, don't give up.

While as a tanker, I'm far from those maps. Though, I don't see why someone would build reflex to deal with HH to just after when they get 110+ forget them... Idk, I might not be qualify to say that.

Edit: The reason why Archer and Wizard used to reign supreme is that Ice maps and Desert Maps were all 1/3 (except some maps). That environment favored long range kill and not tanker who see AoE as there only way to lvl. Now if we get a map where, let's say, are 2/3, It'll be much more balance than the other 2 options imo. Though, I was thinking, for Jot's maps. How about all HH Ftw? xD It'd be more party wise and less aoe. Something that wouldn't be bad for the players in sos. Playing in cooperation?

Leerteer

04-27-2009, 01:09 PM

yanane

04-28-2009, 01:59 AM

I will say it again, I do accept a hard hitter to be added to east Eir maps. I dont really care because I cant tank those maps atm, and I know it will make long rangers happy, while making tankers a little less happy but not that much...

So bringing only 1 HH to east Eir will do it. Not 2. Let me explain my point...
If I understand, some of the maps south Edine were 2/3 instead of the actual 1/3 ? Then they modified the game to add one more hard hitter so the maps wouldnt be aoeable ?
If that's the case, then this was the error I was talking about. That should never have been done. I really believe it broke the game balance.

Why ?
Everyone will agree that almost all the 6AP gears, xen, and now wing quest items come from aoe. Just take a look at people's shop : lots of lvl 80+ gears from Lost Bryn and Library and lately lots of lvl 110-130 gears from Templar. But where are lvl 96+ gears ?? Many the lvl 9x I know are having hard time finding their gears or pay great amount of xen for it.
Reason to that is simple : there is actually no map to aoe for that lvl range :
At lvl 96, most tankers have 270-280 def which isnt enough to aoe Templar safely.
Do you know any decent aoeable maps (not dungeon) for people with a def ranging from 280 to 320 ?
The result is that the supply of lvl 96+ gears suffers a lot from that. And no, there's not enough solo archers or mage who grind lvl 96+ maps, not enough to supply the market with gears.
If south Edine maps really were mostly 2/3 because the developpers originaly made it this way, then it should have stayed this way.
So bring 2 HH to east Eir and it's just going to do the same wrong. It will just worsen the economy, and I'm pretty sure prices for lvl 110+ will increase like crazy...

So leave east Eir maps aoeable, bring hard hitters if you want, but leave those maps aoeable. Yea yea, fighters are greedy and all, but also, remember that aoe is vital to the game economy, which isnt at its best right now...

techno-viking

04-28-2009, 02:25 AM

I will say it again, I do accept a hard hitter to be added to east Eir maps. I dont really care because I cant tank those maps atm, and I know it will make long rangers happy, while making tankers a little less happy but not that much...

So bringing only 1 HH to east Eir will do it. Not 2. Let me explain my point...
If I understand, some of the maps south Edine were 2/3 instead of the actual 1/3 ? Then they modified the game to add one more hard hitter so the maps wouldnt be aoeable ?
If that's the case, then this was the error I was talking about. That should never have been done. I really believe it broke the game balance.

Why ?
Everyone will agree that almost all the 6AP gears, xen, and now wing quest items come from aoe. Just take a look at people's shop : lots of lvl 80+ gears from Lost Bryn and Library and lately lots of lvl 110-130 gears from Templar. But where are lvl 96+ gears ?? Many the lvl 9x I know are having hard time finding their gears or pay great amount of xen for it.
Reason to that is simple : there is actually no map to aoe for that lvl range :
At lvl 96, most tankers have 270-280 def which isnt enough to aoe Templar safely.
Do you know any decent aoeable maps (not dungeon) for people with a def ranging from 280 to 320 ?
The result is that the supply of lvl 96+ gears suffers a lot from that. And no, there's not enough solo archers or mage who grind lvl 96+ maps, not enough to supply the market with gears.
If south Edine maps really were mostly 2/3 because the developpers originaly made it this way, then it shouldnt have stayed this way.
So bring 2 HH to east Eir and it's just going to do the same wrong. It will just worsen the economy, and I'm pretty sure prices for lvl 110+ will increase like crazy...

So leave east Eir maps aoeable, bring hard hitters if you want, but leave those maps aoeable. Yea yea, fighters are greedy and all, but also, remember that aoe is vital to the game economy, which isnt at its best right now...

^ this.

i'd also like to add that changing it now will probably cause more of an imbalance due to the fact that people have gained alot of levels aoeing those maps, and adding hard hitters now will slow the rest down and cause a large level gap to form, which will annoy lots of people and most likely make them more greedy when it comes to aoeing whats left of the maps.

as for the maps past edine, i have made a suggestion in the feedback section that simpson valley - nordis valley be made aoeable to ease the strain on the newer maps.

D-Styles

04-28-2009, 03:01 AM

i'd also like to add that changing it now will probably cause more of an imbalance due to the fact that people have gained alot of levels aoeing those maps, and adding hard hitters now will slow the rest down and cause a large level gap to form, which will annoy lots of people and most likely make them more greedy when it comes to aoeing whats left of the maps.

i would have to disagree strongly with this.

As i take it, there are around 13 maps from the graveyards up to Amorica, and making at least 1 mob a hardhitter in each map will not make a gap whatsoever. It'll just challenge you to something that's always been there.. Hard Hitters, Just like in the early ice maps. People who aoe the ice maps have been doing fine and will continue to do so because these maps are fairly balanced. And so what if it annoys you, its an obstacle that has to be dealt with ever since the beginning of this game. Like i keep saying before, its not supposed to get easier... And there is no way people can greedy up 12 maps, that's much more lenient than the high desert maps which people have fought over before.

techno-viking

04-28-2009, 05:13 AM

i would have to disagree strongly with this.

As i take it, there are around 13 maps from the graveyards up to Amorica, and making at least 1 mob a hardhitter in each map will not make a gap whatsoever. It'll just challenge you to something that's always been there.. Hard Hitters, Just like in the early ice maps. People who aoe the ice maps have been doing fine and will continue to do so because these maps are fairly balanced. And so what if it annoys you, its an obstacle that has to be dealt with ever since the beginning of this game. Like i keep saying before, its not supposed to get easier... And there is no way people can greedy up 12 maps, that's much more lenient than the high desert maps which people have fought over before.

fair point mate. personally im used to aoeing maps with hard hitters(i solo aoe simpson valley sometimes), so it won't bother me in the slightest challenge wise. I haven't really traveled past the first 3 new maps so i don't know how busy they get. however if you spend some time in templar gorge/cele you will see that the maps are pretty much full 24/7/365 with party aoers. now i've been in a couple of these parties and the xp is lousy to say the least, so adding hard hitters will make the xp even more lousy and instead of parties of 6-8 it will more than likely be parties of 4 or 5 meaning someones gonna lose out....unless they SZ kill of course, which i'm pretty certain is what will happen if hard hitters are added.

Anyway i just don't want to see people losing out, it's pretty hard to get parties on some of those maps as it is, and trying to convince a healer to run to the desert maps as an alternative is near on impossible :P so just as long as any changes made take into consideration and protect all the players so they can carry on playing as close to normal as possible, then it's all good.

finally, this is a long shot, but is it possible they want people leveling up a lot faster, so they can pressure the devs to release more content quicker?

tazsbigtoy

04-28-2009, 05:20 AM

If I understand, some of the maps south Edine were 2/3 instead of the actual 1/3 ? Then they modified the game to add one more hard hitter so the maps wouldnt be aoeable ?
If that's the case, then this was the error I was talking about. That should never have been done. I really believe it broke the game balance.

.

No I don't think the maps from Blackmail to Sherwood have been modified. Edine originally did not have a hard hitter and people fought over it even worse than now, so they made the aspa a hard hitter.

holli_hobbi

04-29-2009, 02:30 AM

Is it such a crime to have some maps that are hard or impossible to aoe? Not everyone wants or likes to aoe. Its nice to have a few maps where a party can just go grind and have fun. Cause last time I checked... this is a game.. which by definition is suppose to be fun. You guys are all in such a hurry to level, but what happens when you do? Enjoy the process.. enjoy the people.. have fun! :)

LewCfurPrime

04-29-2009, 11:03 PM

Definitely agree with DJ....every other aoeable map has the Alphas......and pretty sure the new maps on the Xenepic game have hardhitters all through the maps....I even heard that ALL of the enemies there are hardhitters^^. Kinda neat to think that there, in pretty much the same layout, those maps were created just FOR soloing/partying, and here they were made just for aoeing!
Anywho, may as well put hardhitters in the maps; imo, all the maps are good for now is powerlevelling anyone that can get there(which imo, also, is the lamest frigging thing to ever happen to any game). But whatever floats people's boats, ya know? I haven't changed how I play the game much since the addition of the new maps, and when I do solo there, it is the best experience of any other map-set in the game.
I just hope that new maps come out soon, since a lot of the older characters in the game(and some of the newer ones) are going to quickly outlevel(or already have) even Amorica.

And when was the last town released? Because that would be an even better addition, with a new 2 or 3 dozen maps^^(hint, hint).

Tatsumiko

04-29-2009, 11:38 PM

Maps with all Aoe-able mobs = boring
Maps with 1-2 Alphas = Nice =^.^=
Maps with all Alphas = Fun
New town with new maps = Woot!!!

That's all~

yanane

04-30-2009, 02:17 AM

Maps with all Aoe-able mobs = boring

Well it depends on who you partying with.
I've been doing Lost Bryn and then Library for a pretty long time and got into many parties, so I can tell you it really depends on who you're playing with. Some are the type of people to aoe silently for hours, some just keep the party chat alive and fun, which make aoe parties very enjoyable.
But if you join a party where you have to listen to the whining of a lvl45 pot boy who died cause he was afk while he went to store for 1hour and lost that precious 7% from the 500% he freely leeched.... I believe that party might be boring... or annoying.

Holli, I'm not complaining about the fact that I cant level up fast :)
In fact, I have only got 2 lvl since I got lvl 96 3-4 weeks ago, so believe me lvling is not my priority though I can still aoe Edine (been doing pet quest to get my parrot, grinding desert maps to find some gears, worked on the wings, and now the pet mounts ^o^ ).
The main reason I want aoeable maps is only because there's no place aoeable that drops lvl96 gears. Only one map would be enough ! Been solo/duo(with archers only) desert maps for more than three weeks now... been unbelievably lucky cause I got a 6ap sword in phildevit :D, but not anything else... And it's hard for squires to do solo kills cause we get hit all the time unlike long ranges players.
You know I like solo kill grinding parties, but few are the healers who still wants to do those. Just look at the shouts like 'lvl 50 aco looking for pty in temp pm me nao plzzzz !'... Most healers now are tracked at places like Amorica or any big aoe spot, and dont want to lose that track, so when you ask for a non-aoe party to chanterey and beyond they usually dont want to go. Or if they do go with you and die during the party, then duo is over because they didnt track and cannot come back cause you went too far away...

I want to add that a map with all hard hitters would be rubbish. It's basically the same as an all aoeable map. Believe me, some people have insane defense and could just aoe them so same problem. I remember seeing a knight girl aoeing Templar while getting hit 1s and 2s... she had all her gears +7 :)

Remember : AOE is your main source for gears ! I'm wondering who's buying all that excess lvl130+ gear you see in shops >>, well good thing somehow because they'll be super cheap when I'll reach that level :D !

Tatsumiko

04-30-2009, 03:57 AM

My AoE party mostly consist of 2-4 AoErs, 1-2 healers and the rest are leechers that complained how hard it is to level alone/boasting how many levels they get from leeching. And almost all my regular partners quitted T_T

And getting a healer to Chant is like walking alone to Taq on a level 16 aco.

*waits for a Helm of Independance 6ap to be sold for 1mil*

yanane

04-30-2009, 05:46 AM

And getting a healer to Chant is like walking alone to Taq on a level 16 aco.

A lvl 50 aco could easily go to Chant... even if he's on his own. Just take a look at templar, the maps leading to that place are harder than the ones leading to Chant, but lvl50 people still manage to get there on their own....

Tatsumiko

04-30-2009, 08:43 AM

I mean no one wanna go to Chant anymore to accompany this lonely tempy... T_T

TRXSTA

04-30-2009, 11:28 AM

holli_hobbi

05-01-2009, 08:56 AM

You know I like solo kill grinding parties, but few are the healers who still wants to do those. Just look at the shouts like 'lvl 50 aco looking for pty in temp pm me nao plzzzz !'... Most healers now are tracked at places like Amorica or any big aoe spot, and dont want to lose that track, so when you ask for a non-aoe party to chanterey and beyond they usually dont want to go. Or if they do go with you and die during the party, then duo is over because they didnt track and cannot come back cause you went too far away...

Me! Pick Me! Rofl! I would much rather single kill in a duo or party. My guildies and me have been single killing past Blackmail hunting for gears. Next time ask to join, Yanane. We are all pretty good about sharing the drops with whoever in the party needs them. And with three to five us all over lvl 75 (and no leechers, yeah!) we kill pretty fast.

poochyenarulez

05-01-2009, 02:14 PM

hollowjak

05-05-2009, 02:53 AM

hehehehahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

holli_hobbi

05-06-2009, 10:14 PM

same, i like aoe pts, but i prefer duos or small pts, usually if i shout for a pt or duo, some1 pms me asking me to join a aoe pt in temp+...

I don't think I've ever shouted for a party. Usually have too many peeps asking for me as it is.. hehehe. Had to make a few alts just to have some quiet time occasionally. LOL Seriously tho, I love being a healer and I'm glad people seem to think I'm doing a good job. :)

Propanol

05-06-2009, 10:29 PM

Well I hope they bring some hard hitters to the new maps after the maintenance.

poochyenarulez

05-07-2009, 02:30 PM

I don't think I've ever shouted for a party. Usually have too many peeps asking for me as it is.. hehehe. Had to make a few alts just to have some quiet time occasionally. LOL Seriously tho, I love being a healer and I'm glad people seem to think I'm doing a good job. :)

i usually have to beg people to pt me >.>

Ayanami

05-07-2009, 02:44 PM

Guess I'll just preach to the choir here... I agree we need hard hitters. They don't need to put them on EVERY new map, but I would like at least one of the later maps to be aoe-free, or at least aoe-lessened.

I don't typically complain about aoeing on the forums, and I understand that it's a great way to get exp. But as a ranger, it's getting really old for me in Amorica running around looking for mobs when there are none....and then all of a sudden BAM, surrounded by aggros.

The aoers are not typically being rude (I bet many of them would shout warnings for me if I asked); the problem is that ALL the mobs are being taken up by the 2-6 aoers that are on the map at any given time.

And yea, while I can still usually get a healer for a duo, it's way harder now than in turmeit, where I had healers BEGGING me to party. I've even made a "buff slave" alt for when I can't find a healer that I leave near the sz on my laptop. And oh man the teasing I get from my bf for being that dorky and surrounding myself with 2 computers just to play SoS. >_<

So I know I'm just repeating what's already been said. Sorry about that, I just feel like being opinionated tonight.

So my two cents in summary: add hard hitters to many (maybe not all) of the new maps, and give maybe one or two of the later maps 2 or more hard hitters to prevent serious aoeing. Meanwhile, you remember the old desert maps and ice maps past edine? Take a few of the ranged and/or hard hitting mobs OUT of there so at least the mid level aoers can move there instead of trying to suicide aoe the east eir maps.

And guys, stop whining for new maps. It ain't happening any time soon. We're gonna have to work with what we got for now.

Arkova

05-07-2009, 03:31 PM

To be honest, I don't think merely adding alphas would impact aoe in my opinion. Mabye this could have been applied successfully to say...the SoS of one year ago. From cliff maps to Turmeit to east Eir maps; ever since last summer the concept of suicide aoe has gradually evolved into what it is now. Excessive defense+HP and level 112+ healers would probably make a lesser inconvenience of alphas. I even dare to say it might make aoe more exciting for some aoe groups.

Alternative solution? How about maps consisting of only alphas that do waytoomuchdamage. Hahaha..then again people may still try to aoe..except they'll die all the time lol!

OmegaTrooper

05-07-2009, 03:51 PM

Selenityhime

05-09-2009, 09:54 AM

Me! Pick Me! Rofl! I would much rather single kill in a duo or party. My guildies and me have been single killing past Blackmail hunting for gears. Next time ask to join, Yanane. We are all pretty good about sharing the drops with whoever in the party needs them. And with three to five us all over lvl 75 (and no leechers, yeah!) we kill pretty fast.

ROFL Holli. :D

The people I usually play with are mostly grinders not aoers. We had not gone to Templar much, but yesterday we got a party together and went out. We went out a bit of ways not finding a single monster, then suddenly got surrounded by respawn, most of which were aggro. There was no shout. I'm told I'm a good healer, but there was no way I could keep up and we were decimated. A couple of more tries didn't turn out much better.

There were no less than 5 aoers on the board, and not a single one shouted. Not that it would have mattered, because as far out as one has to go to try to find a monster, it would be impossible to reach the sz in time. And with the size of the mobs the aoers are pulling, respawn comes out at the equivilent of a tidal wave. I support bringing hard hitters in, because it would force some regulation to the maps. Right now its chaos to anyone who is not aoe or aoe party.

I also agree that its a little frustrating to see so many people who are leveling to high levels without doing a single thing. They sit in the sz and wait for the aoer to come, then run out for the xp. I don't even understand why they are playing.

Anyway, thats my two cents.

holli_hobbi

05-09-2009, 01:48 PM

I think there are actually two things that need to be done. First, bring hard hitters to the new maps, but in addtion... add a dungeon (maybe in Jot?) like Lost Bryn or the Library for the over lvl 100 crowd that has a similar require def as the new maps. That would make both the aoer's and the single killers happy.

poochyenarulez

05-09-2009, 02:10 PM

they need to add quest items at sleepless grave so people will aoe there more, and not amor..

holli_hobbi

05-10-2009, 08:56 AM

they need to add quest items at sleepless grave so people will aoe there more, and not amor..

Oh yeah... I forgot about Sleepless Grave... that would be cool! Though the layout of Sleepless isn't very good for healers in an aoe party there. Used a little neo to sneak through there once just to see the sights. Not sure there is even a sz in there.

poochyenarulez

05-10-2009, 09:15 AM

it will be just like the mines i guess~

OmegaTrooper

05-11-2009, 05:46 AM

Oh yeah... I forgot about Sleepless Grave... that would be cool! Though the layout of Sleepless isn't very good for healers in an aoe party there. Used a little neo to sneak through there once just to see the sights. Not sure there is even a sz in there.
No that's even worse people will be fighting for sleepless grave and aoeing and they should just put hard hitters amorica and other maps, the aoers are getting ridiculous greedy and respawns getting soloing parties killed they leave no mobs they are below 150+ should not be aoeing there anyways better solution is just to lower the defense or higher the defense required for map and add the hitters.

yanane

05-11-2009, 05:12 PM

No that's even worse people will be fighting for sleepless grave and aoeing and they should just put hard hitters amorica and other maps, the aoers are getting ridiculous greedy and respawns getting soloing parties killed they leave no mobs they are below 150+ should not be aoeing there anyways better solution is just to lower the defense or higher the defense required for map and add the hitters.

I dont understand why you're saying that people shouldn't be aoeing here... If people want to suicide aoe, it's their own problem. If they die, they will be losing exp, not you right ?
So you have to be level 150+ to aoe Amorica ? Then Charon should be the only one aoeing Amorica since he's the only one who has reached that level :D (except a funny paladin GM who is level 180... but np since healers dont have aoe attack skill, huh poochy ^^ ?)
I remember that each time I had new gears and could move on to aoe new maps, the monsters name were bloody red to me, meaning the map's level was way higher than my own level. But since I was only getting hit 1s or 2s I just went for the uber awesome exp !
People who worked hard to get three incubators or their gears to +6 or +7 have the right to aoe maps way above their own level. It's just the reward they get for all that hard work.
Also, I could tell you the same thing : if you cannot handle respawns, then you shouldn't be soloing here.

My final tought on this will be : the game conceptors decided that east Eir maps should be free of hard hitters so be it. I believe they already did a lot of brainstorming and thinking about that and their decision is most probably the best.

Ayanami

05-11-2009, 08:34 PM

My final tought on this will be : the game conceptors decided that east Eir maps should be free of hard hitters so be it. I believe they already did a lot of brainstorming and thinking about that and their decision is most probably the best.

Ehehehehe no, I bet they didn't. Why make all the desert maps and later ice maps insanely hard to aoe, and then put ZERO hard hitters in the new maps? You end up with a huge map level gap in terms of defense needed to aoe. If they had their reasons, I honestly would kinda like to know, 'cause I'm really quite baffled at the new maps vs. the "old new" maps.

Considering they actually made Aspas hard hitters in Edine after the fact, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that they might listen to our feedback.

From what I gather from the thread, the majority of players (even the aoers!) want some hard hitters on the new maps.

But then again, Outspark has ignored a whole lotta feedback too... >_<

yanane

05-12-2009, 03:43 AM

OmegaTrooper

05-12-2009, 05:09 AM

I dont understand why you're saying that people shouldn't be aoeing here... If people want to suicide aoe, it's their own problem. If they die, they will be losing exp, not you right ?
So you have to be level 150+ to aoe Amorica ? Then Charon should be the only one aoeing Amorica since he's the only one who has reached that level (except a funny paladin GM who is level 180... but np since healers dont have aoe attack skill, huh poochy ^^ ?)
I remember that each time I had new gears and could move on to aoe new maps, the monsters name were bloody red to me, meaning the map's level was way higher than my own level. But since I was only getting hit 1s or 2s I just went for the uber awesome exp !
People who worked hard to get three incubators or their gears to +6 or +7 have the right to aoe maps way above their own level. It's just the reward they get for all that hard work.
Also, I could tell you the same thing : if you cannot handle respawns, then you shouldn't be soloing here.

My final tought on this will be : the game conceptors decided that east Eir maps should be free of hard hitters so be it. I believe they already did a lot of brainstorming and thinking about that and their decision is most probably the best.
That just shows how unbalanced the game is plus when an aoer dies and they hold all the mobs usually the person near it will die usually parties.

CyberPhoenixSlayer

05-12-2009, 07:23 AM

:rolleyes: nice post, but...

I think I can give you the reason why it is so.
Maybe because aoers and suicide aoers are the ones that use SC the most ;) (cloak, cowbell, SC pots, HP buffs... )
That only reason is good enough to make the maps all aoeable. Hosting a mmorpg costs a lot of money after all.

From what I heard in this thread, Aspas were made hard hitters because people were fighting over Edine map and couldn't get along... People are asking for maps with hard hitters, but when Outspark gives it to them, nobody goes there because it's too hard :S. Or maybe they dont go there anymore because the new maps that came out have better exp ? Then they're just as exp greedy as the aoers...
I already pointed the fact that if those insanely hard maps were made more aoe friendly, people who are currently suiciding aoe east Eir maps would move there. Dont say they wouldn't because exp isn't as good. I would prefer to do safe aoe rather than suicide aoe even if the exp wasn't as good. And I'm sure many people would do the same as me.

We dont need hard hitters. I think this thread has already done some good. On the last grinding party I did to Amorica, we met several aoers on the way and almost all of them left monsters behind them for us to play with. Even the so-called greedy aoers in Amorica left us lots of monsters to play with, so maybe they're not that greedy. Maybe if you aren't nice to them, they wont be nice to you ? I wonder...
So instead of having people who dont know anything about game mechanics make crazy suggestions like making maps all hard hitters, if people were a little more willing to share, and many already are, we could all enjoy the game. Just that simple...
Well actually, most of the high level people I met so far were nice people. There's just a couple of arrogant and hateful people out there, but from what I saw they're already known for being like this, and what's most sad about it, is that they're actually proud of it :S

But somehow, I also would like to know what GMs or Outspark think about that... Or they could do a poll, like how they did for the perm we would buy ;)

...mind if i said my point? Why they release new thing in game that give def if are lucky?(pet buff, wings with def, new acc with def and pet mount with def). The GMs might change that once they release new maps. Once a map become too easy for everyone to aoe and we complain and get too much overcrownded, that's happen. The Aspa we're a aoeable monster before the map get overcrownded with aoers and decide to make it hard-hitter. So if they decide to change it, they will do it and not tell us before they do it.

I hear a GM saying before they will change that once they release the new contents in the game and the next dungeons. But until then, enjoy what u got while u can before they change
this. Im sure many oldies could be agree with the fact that once something change, a lot of complain happen in a new thread, right? :rolleyes:

Don't underestimate a GM, i know they can do it if they want to tell the DNC about this, maybe they have already did and didn't tell us earlier.

You could be surprised if they decide to change that in the next few weeks or in a month with new contents.

From the korean version, these monster are all hard-hitters, they might reverse it for all hard-hitters instead of all aoeable. ;)

Ayanami

05-12-2009, 07:23 AM

I think I can give you the reason why it is so.
Maybe because aoers and suicide aoers are the ones that use SC the most ;) (cloak, cowbell, SC pots, HP buffs... )
That only reason is good enough to make the maps all aoeable. Hosting a mmorpg costs a lot of money after all.

If this were true, then why didn't they make the desert maps and maps past edine aoeable?

From what I heard in this thread, Aspas were made hard hitters because people were fighting over Edine map and couldn't get along... People are asking for maps with hard hitters, but when Outspark gives it to them, nobody goes there because it's too hard :S. Or maybe they dont go there anymore because the new maps that came out have better exp ? Then they're just as exp greedy as the aoers...

Outspark overdid it with the hardhitters in the desert and ice maps. Only a handful of maps can be aoe'd there AT ALL. And solo killers like mages and archers avoid those maps because of the ranged mobs they put in.

So we are left with overcrowded maps east of Eir and nearly ABANDONED desert and ice maps. That doesn't sound like game balance to me.

I already pointed the fact that if those insanely hard maps were made more aoe friendly, people who are currently suiciding aoe east Eir maps would move there. Dont say they wouldn't because exp isn't as good. I would prefer to do safe aoe rather than suicide aoe even if the exp wasn't as good. And I'm sure many people would do the same as me.

I agree. Again, I don't understand why they don't rebalance the maps but adding some hard hitters to the new maps and removing some from the older maps.

We dont need hard hitters. I think this thread has already done some good. On the last grinding party I did to Amorica, we met several aoers on the way and almost all of them left monsters behind them for us to play with. Even the so-called greedy aoers in Amorica left us lots of monsters to play with, so maybe they're not that greedy. Maybe if you aren't nice to them, they wont be nice to you ? I wonder...
So instead of having people who dont know anything about game mechanics make crazy suggestions like making maps all hard hitters, if people were a little more willing to share, and many already are, we could all enjoy the game. Just that simple...
Well actually, most of the high level people I met so far were nice people. There's just a couple of arrogant and hateful people out there, but from what I saw they're already known for being like this, and what's most sad about it, is that they're actually proud of it :S

I've never said that any aoers have been rude or greedy. The problem is OVERCROWDING. I've had to grind in Amorica with no less than SIX people aoeing around me. At this point everyone was grabbing whatever mobs they could.

And I don't want to make ALL maps filled with ALL hard hitters. I would be happy with just one hard hitter per map (maybe two or three on ONE of the later new maps), and this wouldn't even have to be on every map. That way aoers would leave the hard hitters behind for us rangers/wizzies.

I'm sure there is some happy middle ground in between "Let's be able to aoe everything!" and "All hard hitters everywhere! No more aoeing!"

yanane

05-12-2009, 08:58 AM

Outspark overdid it with the hardhitters in the desert and ice maps. Only a handful of maps can be aoe'd there AT ALL.

Maybe at that time people were complaining so hard that Outspark's staff got full of it :)
'So you guys want hard hitters ? All right then, we are gonna give you hard hitters !!!'
Maybe it was their way to poke moaners in the eye, who knows :D ?

holli_hobbi

05-13-2009, 10:54 AM

I am kind of beginning to think all maps should be either 2/4 or 1/4 for hard hitters, so that every map is suitable for aoe and single kill. Because there are no aoeable maps where lvl 96 gear drops... it is almost impossilbe to find that lvl gear at a reasonable price. So, yeah, make the ice/desert maps more aoeable, and add a hard hitter to the new maps. Keep the game balanced for ALL the lvls.

wardomic

05-13-2009, 12:29 PM

Ayanami

05-13-2009, 05:20 PM

At least 1 hard hitter should be put into the new maps. Also, People with defence pets and whatnot and are at a low enough level could aoe those hard hitters in the desert and ice maps since hard hitters in the map or 2 after edine, and the map after chant hit just as hard as the monsters in templar. If those aoers weren't so busy leveling, they could easily aoe those other maps in hopes of farming those rare items and possibly bring more lvl 96 gears into the market. I can't do it yet but i plan to when i'm able to(poor in xens and no defence pet or defence accessories or incubators)

I think you are forgetting that nearly ALL these maps have ranged mobs, which are very dangerous for healers and support aoers. In addition to hard hitters, they really overdid it with ranged mobs on these maps too. :(

Also, are you sure the hard hitters won't run from the aoers at this point? That's what I've generally found is the case. By the time you have good enough gear to take an entire map with alphas, everything starts running from you. :( I've also found that if someone has good enough gears to take alphas on a lower lvl map, they prefer just to aoe that higher lvl map instead, as they'll gain more exp.

wardomic

05-13-2009, 05:41 PM

It would be a little suicide, i'm lvl 96, no defence pet, no aco, and they hit me for about 35-40 on the 2nd map. I'm only useing ap6 +5, and 1 +4 gears, perm green bell and perm cloak of love, no incubators or defence accessories. With blaze for extra hp and only taking a smaller portion of the map, using wild swing to gather since taking everything it should be alright, i solo suicide these places myself, taking in about 15 things on my own using sc pots. so with bless and a healer, preferably cleric its even more possible. Chant shouldn't run til lvl 101, and the maps after that a few later, and there is time to increase my defence even more. So all in all it is possible to aoe those maps for gears. Espececially with the new defence pets and defence mounts. All i'm saying is it's possible now to aoe those hard hitters.

Edit: Not everyone prefers to go to the higer level maps, I've seen people aoe hard hitters(tho not recently) and i have had my share of doing it myself even before i got wild swing. In fact i aoed hard hitters in ivo before they ran. It's fun to aoe hard hitters, and if you can do it in maps where it's normally impossible, that's even better.

yanane

05-13-2009, 06:01 PM

From the korean version, these monster are all hard-hitters, they might reverse it for all hard-hitters instead of all aoeable. ;)

I noticed that many people think that monsters in Xenepic are all hard hitters. Lot of things are different between Xenepic and SotS. One big difference is the amount of HP and the way damage and attack are dealt.

Check this video :
Attack on Jotunnheim (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO5GsC8bDac)

The strongest monsters in SotS usually dont hit more than 350 damage, but here you can see people getting hit for over 3000, or a long succession of 300-500 before they finally die ! That means they have a lot more of HP than we do.
So I guess when you see people in Xenepic getting hit around 50 or 70, which would make you think they're getting hit by a hard hitter, it might actually be equivalent to us getting hit 1 or 2 :D

That was totally off-topic, but I just wanted to clear this out ^^

Ayanami

05-18-2009, 09:32 AM

I thought I would bump this thread with some good news...

There's a Solstice Council meeting this week and Toasty wants opinions/information on this subject.

So yay. :)

yanane

05-18-2009, 01:24 PM

Very good news indeed !

So I will summarize what I think would be best :

East Eir maps :
Turn all the maps from 3/3 to 2/3.
Keeping some maps 3/3 won't do it because they will be favorites and overcrowded.
Or maybe just keep a couple of maps 3/3. I suggest that Templar and Amorica stay 3/3 maps. I guess it must be hard to level up at 150+, that's why I think Amorica should stay 3/3... until we get harder maps ;).

South Edine and Desert maps :
Turn all the maps from 1/3 to 2/3.
Keeping some maps 1/3 won't do it because they will be... deserted :D ! Just take look at the current situation.
Turn some spell casters to close range hard hitters, best would be all of them. It will encourage healers and mage to go to those maps.
Turn Edine back to a 4/4 map ? Turn the last three maps of south Edine to 3/3 ? Turn Chantery and Turmeit to 3/3 maps ? I wasn't there at that time, but I think lot of things have changed since the time people fought over Edine. In Templar/Celephane/Eaglerantin you sometime have 3 different party aoeing on the same map, but people do get along since there's so many monsters that everyone somehow get their share. Maybe we could increase the number of monsters in those maps that would be turned to 3/3 maps ?

Why should we make all the maps more aoe friendly ?
- To supply the market with lvl 96-103 gears, hence decreasing the price of those.
- More people aoeing will bring more xens, pet enhance/wing quest items... It will help the economy I think :S ???
- To spread the aoers who are currently all aoeing Templar and beyond, and boycotting south Edine and Desert maps. Maybe that's why so many people are having lags in Templar ? I usually never lag, except in Templar/Celephane...

I hope this meeting will bring some changes. Many players, including me, have great expectations from it ^^.

poochyenarulez

05-18-2009, 01:58 PM

amor should be 1/3
bangle 3/3
big apple 3/3
temp 3/3

the rest should be 2/3
that way non aoers and aoers can be happy~

Ayanami

05-18-2009, 08:26 PM

Yea my thoughts are pretty similar, no real major differences.

East Eir:

2/3 in general for all. Maybe one or two 1/3 and 3/3's along the way for variety.
3/3 map(s): I'm hesitant to suggest ANY 3/3 maps, as I feel they lead to overcrowding and fighting over maps. Maybe make a couple maps with the WORST layouts 3/3 maps (making them less tempting to fight over, and harder to solo aoe).
1/3: I would like amorica or bangle to be a 1/3 map (although as a ranger this is maybe a little selfish).

Desert Maps and South Edine:

2/3 in general for all. Make the ranged mobs the only hard hitters. No one likes to pull ranged mobs. They get dropped on healers often, and it takes fewer of them to lock you up. Maybe turn a few ranged mobs into melee (if that's possible), but leave some ranged for a variety/challenge.
1/3: Leave Phildevilt and Turmeit as 1/3 maps, as they have no ranged mobs. Mages and archers would train here, like they do now.
3/3: Maybe pick a map or two to make 3/3
Chant: A funny thing...although Chant is a higher level map than edine, and it requires a higher defense to aoe, the exp isn't as good when aoeing. I'm not sure if this is because of layout or number of mobs, but perhaps they could either make Chant a 3/3 or add some more mobs to it.

Edine...Originally it was being fought over because it was the highest level map in the game and was 4/4. It's STILL a very desirable place to aoe, as there is a big gap between it and the next aoe maps. If rebalancing is done, I guess I'm OK with making it 4/4, but I'm not sure there will be a need to.

Dungeons:
Give people more incentive to go into the high level dungeons. Ideas:

Boost exp (duh)
Better drops (see below)

Drop idea: have meridians drop in these dungeons, like in cobalt. Oh, and Outspark, MAKE THESE WORK, geez (I believe the in-game meridians still don't work?). Pibriums too, although of course more rare. But yea, I know Outspark won't like this ("oh noes, we might lose monies!"), so here is my companion idea: Make enhanced pets able to gain levels by further enhancement, since they can't currently. It will spur more merdian/pibrium usage, and make players happy (no one wants a Level 1 ANYTHING pet).

Propanol

05-18-2009, 09:18 PM

I wish the edine~sherwood be the same as it is now. Actually those maps are very good for non-aoe party since there is no aoe'er... especially the ice mountains are nice. My suggestion is: please don't change edine~sherwood path... keep it as it is now. Only the problem is Edine is too far away from any town.

holli_hobbi

05-19-2009, 02:33 AM

The only problem with leaving the Edine-Sherwood maps alone, is that it is one of the few places that lvl 96 gears drop. Since you can't aoe for those lvl gears, it has skyrocketed the price of them.

yanane

05-19-2009, 04:14 AM

1/3: Leave Phildevilt and Turmeit as 1/3 maps, as they have no ranged mobs. Mages and archers would train here, like they do now.

Leave Phildevit and Turmeit 1/3 and those maps will really be desert maps, with no people playing on it. Only a handful of archers and mages actually play on those maps because these are too hard, even for mages and archers, and even if there's no spell casters. Believe me I've been there for quite a long time now, and I've always seen the same 2-3 people there... And most of the time, those people were grinding there out of despair, because they couldn't find or buy their lvl 96 gears on the market...
Also, ranged classes usually go to the hardest maps to get the best exp. That's why they will go straight to east Eir maps, thus leaving Turmeit and Phildevit desert.
A good workaround would be to add a new monster, and make those maps 2/4, both aoers and ranged class will benefit from it. But I guess it'll be much harder for Outspark to do since that would imply to do more than just modifying the actual monster's stats... Or they could do it by putting a monster from another map and naming it differently ;) !

1/3: I would like amorica or bangle to be a 1/3 map (although as a ranger this is maybe a little selfish).

Sorry, but I'm totally against the idea of making Amorica a 1/3 map. Once tankers will reach the level to aoe Amorica, making it 1/3 will just make it harder/impossible for them to level up.
What ranged classes usually forget about us tankers is that we are definitely not made for single killing. Archers and mages hit hard and fast, while fighters are slower with moderate damage. Also, it's less risky for ranged classes, because if they get mobbed, they have binding aoe skill... when us fighters must bravely take in all the damage, spam pots like crazy and most of the time... die ^^. The result of all this is that you spend more on pots than what you get from drops (gears to npc) while leveling at a really slow pace.
However, I think it would be better if we could have some feedback from warlords, just to know what they think about that...

I wish the edine~sherwood be the same as it is now. Actually those maps are very good for non-aoe party since there is no aoe'er... especially the ice mountains are nice. My suggestion is: please don't change edine~sherwood path... keep it as it is now. Only the problem is Edine is too far away from any town.

There's is no aoer... simply because you can't aoe those maps. People usually do grinding party when they want to take a break from aoe or when they get bored... That's why there's so few people doing those at higher level. 2/3, even 3/3 maps are perfect for grinding party. And as I said earlier in my posts, many aoers now leave monsters when they meet a grinding party ;).

Keep in mind that I fight for having all maps aoeable not because I'm a greedy tanker, but because I want to see more gears on the market and decrease the price of those. There will never be enough archers and mages grinding to supply the market with gears and fulfill the current demand. I'ts sad for you guys, but that's definitely the truth, you can only rely on aoers for that matter.

dakidda913

05-19-2009, 04:37 AM

I'm sure they will compensate by adding a few all hard hitter maps for you kiters :p.

Orangeman21

05-19-2009, 08:54 AM

I would love to have hard hitters in east eir maps and not have aoeable maps(one of the reasons I quit is because I am so bored aoeing mobs that are no challange except if you get mob locked which more or less raised my blood pressure.) I miss the time right after changing to warrior I grinded in taq sometimes solo killing/duo or even aoeing hard hitters for fun. The game is more fun and more of a challange with hard hitters.(camel games in emp and taq ftw :3).

Another thing is that I remember Zayki training in taq an archer to lvl 123 fighting long range camels and also I remember Cayden and Amer duoing in taq also getting high level its not impossible to train against ranged hard hitters is my point even for wiz/archer, but no one has skills like that anymore because they are used to having things handed to them like babies. Make the game a challange and force people to make KoS parties again and make the game more fun and maybe bring back more sense of a community. THE GAME SHOULDN'T BE ABOUT AOE AOE AOE UNTIL YOUR BRAINS FALL OUT!

Edit:
Another reason for increasing 96+ gear prices is that there are so many people getting to that level extremely fast its so easy now higher demand and lower supply. Also the gears have always been exspensive(except wiz gears LOL). I was broke after I bought all my s when no tankers played after lvl 101 because they couldn't aoe hardhitters. When I hit warrior gears from archers and mages mostly Sora* *cough* >.>

hoanghiep

05-19-2009, 09:14 AM

I agree with Dipple on the bringing HH back thingi. It's rly no fun to aoe all days and night. Please bring hard hitters back because it makes the game more interesting that way. Whats the point of playing this game if all you ever do is the same thing days after days. Beside, HH is where the training is at, an aoer that can't handle hard hitters is well....just a spammer <<;. Same thing for long ranger, although we already have agros to worry about lol. Please bring the hard hitters back, I don't see a reasons why not to. There're so many aoers in the new map that it's getting ridiculous. AND Yana...what are you talking about o_O. You think putting HH in amor and bangle gonna kill the aoer? heeeck no lol. Seriously have you ever been to amor? sure the long ranger can solo there, but there's one problem. THERE'S NO MOB LEFT TO KILL!!! If you have ever been to amor, there's always 2-3 aoers there, so it's an absolutely nightmare for long ranger to solo there. They always mob the whole map, leaving not a single dust grain to kill, then HUGE respawn come and long ranger have no choice but to run, cause we don't have crazy defense like someone. It is TERRIBLE out there for long ranger...just terrible.

And honestly, bringing hard hitters back is the best way right now to balance out this game. Shortage of 96 gears? noooo problem, putting HH in East Eir Map will force people to go to desert map, cause there's no plvling anymore. I know there will be people who complain that it's slow, but you know wut? People before you have done it, and now you even have aid and ton of stuffs, I can't see why you can't bite it. If you don't have the skills and patient, too bad, time to learn it. I'm tired of people who knows nothing else but aoeing all day, then turn arrogant while they don't have an ounce of skills and respect for other.

Bringing HH back to east eir map is bringing sexy back!!! and you know wut? even Charon thinks soo too, and he's the highset lvl aoer in the game. So hurry up and do it!!! It will only do us more good. And for the aoer-without-a-break, try KOS parties...it's way more fun than aoeing, trust me. I have a knight and I can aoe, but I barely train him cause....I always fall asleep aoeing...it's so...boring.

yanane

05-19-2009, 10:34 AM

AND Yana...what are you talking about o_O. You think putting HH in amor and bangle gonna kill the aoer? heeeck no lol. Seriously have you ever been to amor? sure the long ranger can solo there, but there's one problem. THERE'S NO MOB LEFT TO KILL!!! If you have ever been to amor, there's always 2-3 aoers there, so it's an absolutely nightmare for long ranger to solo there. They always mob the whole map, leaving not a single dust grain to kill, then HUGE respawn come and long ranger have no choice but to run, cause we don't have crazy defense like someone. It is TERRIBLE out there for long ranger...just terrible.

Already gave an answer to that.

On the last grinding party I did to Amorica, we met several aoers on the way and almost all of them left monsters behind them for us to play with. Even the so-called greedy aoers in Amorica left us lots of monsters to play with, so maybe they're not that greedy. Maybe if you aren't nice to them, they wont be nice to you ? I wonder...
So instead of having people who dont know anything about game mechanics make crazy suggestions like making maps all hard hitters, if people were a little more willing to share, and many already are, we could all enjoy the game. Just that simple...

And about respawns, I'll say it again, if you can't handle them, it means you're lacking the skill for soloing there. So maybe it's time for you to take a break from soloing and get into a grinding party. We were a party composed of level 80-100 people (so a weak party for such a map) but we handled Amorica's huge respawn without having anyone dying. We also had to deal with some Evil_Ranger who was constantly pulling mobs and bramblewaying it just beside our party, clearly with the intent of killing our little bunch of noobs (though it always failed to kill any of us :D)... Oh, but grinding party (though in Amorica it was more like group suicide aoeing) are not good I guess, since the exp is so bad :S...

People always saying and pretending that HH aoeing is more challenging or whatever, only elite players do it blah blah... but why is there so few people doing it ?
- bad exp
- high chances of death
- too many mp pots to burn (for both the healer and the aoer)
- not enough gears dropping from it
Those kind of party are fun, it's the only thing good about it. So people usually agree to do it just after they have leveled up, so dying won't be bad. But you will never have people willing to do it as a daily training routine. I know people did it in the past, but they didn't have any other choice and most important thing : the game was still in its development phase. Past is past, now there are new maps, so a little change would do some good don't you think ?

Anyway, I'm not gonna brag about me doing suicide aoe because I only did it out of despair, as the only option left, being unable to buy my set of satisfaction gears or getting it from solo killing or kill on sight party.

You could say I'm quite new to the game, only been there for like six months, so I believe my opinion won't weight as much as the one from players who've been there since closed beta. I'm just trying to share my toughts on what I think would be best for all the players.
So fine, just put all HH maps but I'm pretty sure you'll get that result : aoeable maps will be overcrowded, and all HH maps will be deserted. Wait, isn't it the current situation and the reason why this thread was started ?

AzNRuthLess

05-19-2009, 11:01 AM

Another thing is that I remember Zayki training in taq an archer to lvl 123 fighting long range camels and also I remember Cayden and Amer duoing in taq also getting high level its not impossible to train against ranged hard hitters is my point even for wiz/archer, but no one has skills like that anymore because they are used to having things handed to them like babies. Make the game a challange and force people to make KoS parties again and make the game more fun and maybe bring back more sense of a community. THE GAME SHOULDN'T BE ABOUT AOE AOE AOE UNTIL YOUR BRAINS FALL OUT!

Edit:
Another reason for increasing 96+ gear prices is that there are so many people getting to that level extremely fast its so easy now higher demand and lower supply. Also the gears have always been exspensive(except wiz gears LOL). I was broke after I bought all my s when no tankers played after lvl 101 because they couldn't aoe hardhitters. When I hit warrior gears from archers and mages mostly Sora* *cough* >.>

I agree to both positions. Soloing in the desert/ice maps is not as bad as it seems. In the past, the older generation of players were able to do it, without all of the things we have now, such as wings, pet buffs, etc. We managed to do it up till 12X, so how is it not possible for others to do it, now with all of the buffs they are getting from all of these updates? O.o And as stated before, if you cannot handle the respawns, you probably shouldn't belong in that map. And for those who are in the level range for the map, but still have trouble handling respawns, I advise to train yourself a little more, and become more skilled. If anyone has ever noticed, the ones usually complaining and shouting in the maps, are those who aren't even in the level range, or if they are, cannot handle the respawns because lack of skill. I've never heard other high lvl ranged players complain before, NEVER! Cayden, Teiji, we all grinded in Turmeit(forgot the actual name, correct me if I'm wrong ><, its been a while) with constant respawns from Charon, Baten, Varn, and other great tankers, and never once have I heard them shout and complain about respawning.

The older generation of players; me, Cayden, Teiji, Pepsi, Zayki, Amer, Foger, just to name a few, managed to get to 11X-12X just from solo grinding in these maps, with respawns from great tankers of the time, and still great tankers today.

Putting in HH into east eir maps will be a good resolution, but the problem comes when there are a few maps left with no HH. Those maps will then cause another issue with overcrowding, etc. Reducing the number of HH in ice/desert maps will also open up other doors and draw more attention from mid/high lvl players who are in range to aoe/grind these maps, and hunt the gears they so dearly desire.

But the end result, it doesn't really matter what they do, people will usually still go for whatever is in their best interest, whether others like it or not. But, all in all, this discussion has been very good, and hopefully the GM's can do something about it to maybe help us help eachother. Just my 2 cents

BellaAnimorum

05-19-2009, 12:27 PM

First and foremost, I love a challenge and games that give me such, so your enterprise of making the game more difficult is tasteful and agreeable. Anything to force players to think better or become more resourceful deserves an A+ for effort, and I will support it, as a long-standing member of this community. After all, nothing will change unless we take a stand and make our opinions known!

Having said that, though, I have something I would like to share with everyone...

There was a time, long ago (in Solstice and internet time) when the only problems that arose concerning AoE were handled mano-a-mano. Can anyone tell me why that was?

The real problem going on now is relevant to the answer. Players, and the growth of the community.

Sure, Solstice's game engine is well equipped to handle a decently sized player base (500+ people at once is pretty good for a free-to-play) but the game design is strikingly flawed and ill prepared to handle such a vast number of users.

Count the number of maps in the entire game. Now, guesstimate how many maps have at least one player in them at all times. Now, try and think of how many maps are being labelled as "overcrowded".

No, this isn't a push for more maps in the game, but a method to help some people understand the basic princibles of quantity versus space.

Due to the fact that eventually monsters run away from us at certain levels, we are forced to move on to harder maps. This is fine, however, what happens when you throw in the element of 'purchased benefits'? You now have people who have access to areas once thought too difficult, added to the prior ones who choose to enjoy the same (after all, it's a choice to use what's available, and lately no one can really point the finger of "you're not as good a player because you use SparkCash!" anymore because the majority of us have it) all contained within a small area of gameplay.

The result: Many more people located in what was once "empty".

This is natural. It has happened on so many times, I can't even remember if the game was ever never "overcrowded".

I have seen names being thrown out there of players who were dominant in their respective classes, who were constantly grinding away day in and out (whether piloted or not) who had to deal with lesser levelled players coming into the same maps they came to rely on for so long, and as has been said, never complained. (out loud, at least)

To use this term OVERCROWDING, is just a complaint stemming from users who frequent the "highest levelled" maps, at any given time. It happens!

Make some enemies in East Eir maps Hard Hitters? Fine, it's Edine all over again, and guess what, IT WON'T CHANGE A THING!

Don't believe me? I won't try to argue with people who don't think things through, however, just because there would be hard hitters wouldn't change the fact that these map are still the best places to get experience, and the ONLY places for certain players to get experience at all.

The only thing I foresee changing, is possibly fewer lower-levelled players hanging around the maps, but, oh wait, leeching is even more predominant than it was before the desert maps came out. What's to stop people from staying? Nothing, plain and simple.

So ok, we have hard hitters, and people spend more SparkCash to stay ahead, and there are just as many problems. All of you solo-class players may presumptuously rejoice, but you will regret the error in your miscalculations.

How many of you know what Turmeit Desert was like, prior to Templar Gorge opening up? I recall SO many people gathered at the Cretino safe zone, cowering from the constant respawns, and, oh, the complaints. Think you'll have any better a time grinding in these new maps IF there were even one type of enemy that hit even HARDER?! Just imagine the flood of moaning when pullers decide to get a bit 'risque' and pull those too! Now you will have not just a dangerous respawn, but one filled with random hard hitters that will more than likely ensure your death even moreso than before. In the end it will be yet another thread opened up about overcrowding (and I already have my argument for when it comes. >!D)

All in all, the solution to the problem you have addressed doesn't exist, because the only remedy is to reduce the player population, which will never be an action taken by our game provider.

ADDED NOTE: There could be a possible, short term solution, though the implications are something that have been shot down directly by our GMs, and that is CREATE A LEVEL REQUIREMENT BARRIER FOR EACH AND EVERY MAP, SO AS TO FORCIBLY KEEP OUT EXTREMELY LOWER LEVELLED PLAYERS FROM ENTERING AND GRINDING SAID MAPS THUS DRASTICALLY REDUCING COMPLAINTS OF THOSE WHO FULFILL SAID REQUIREMENTS AGAINST THOSE WHO ARE "30, 40, OR EVEN 50 LEVELS" LOWER.

/think!

^.^

Orangeman21

05-19-2009, 12:28 PM

People always saying and pretending that HH aoeing is more challenging or whatever, only elite players do it blah blah... but why is there so few people doing it ?
- bad exp
- high chances of death
- too many mp pots to burn (for both the healer and the aoer)
- not enough gears dropping from it

*Not trying to be an elitist x.x*
Its not that hard to get used to if you have a good healer and a tank that knows his/her limits and the limits of his/her healer or sc pot spammign ability xD. I got better experiance in cret then I did in emp and I was aoeing hardhitters because I was taking smaller mobs and killing quicker (I believe that hard hitters have slightly less HP than low hitters). I was with an extremely laggy healer and if I did get in a bind I would just use butters or juices that I farmed in a like an hour. The chance of death is minimal if you know your limits. I burn about as many mp pots I would burn as if I was in a pt. In the new maps my healer doesn't even use pots she had to repot once in an entire weekend after grinding for at least 8 hours a day. There are a bunch of factors that go into gear drops in teh past it probally would of been worse because we didn't have all these defense items and pets so had to do low level maps. Also its not bad experiance for a tanker to solo kill or udo with a healer killing one by one I did it all the time and got from lvl 96-103 in taq doing it.

Those kind of party are fun, it's the only thing good about it. So people usually agree to do it just after they have leveled up, so dying won't be bad. But you will never have people willing to do it as a daily training routine. I know people did it in the past, but they didn't have any other choice and most important thing : the game was still in its development phase. Past is past, now there are new maps, so a little change would do some good don't you think ?

Anyway, I'm not gonna brag about me doing suicide aoe because I only did it out of despair, as the only option left, being unable to buy my set of satisfaction gears or getting it from solo killing or kill on sight party.

I know a lot of people that did it as a daily thing even when they had another choice including myself and I would do it to level up when other maps were taken without wearing pendant because I never wear them no matter what would rather have extra defense and attack to help keep me alive. Also I have tried aoeing new maps I don't like them its to boring it feels like my life is draining away while I aoe those maps. I actually watch TV while aoeing new maps because I would get bored and it wouldn't add any risk to it. Its like a food that I've tried that doesn't have the same kind of kick as food that I have enjoyed in the past. I used to party with Retribution in Phil and we did a party aoe with awesome experiance and low chance of death. The way we did it is was have the tanks go gather a few mobs and run back to the healers spamming Major Heal and then the tanks woudl start killing. Then the archer would go around and gather mobs and bring them back to the kill zone and bramble and go out and gather more mobs just continously till we had to rp. And we were all in 8x 9x level range at the time. It doesn't have to be suicide aoe.

You could say I'm quite new to the game, only been there for like six months, so I believe my opinion won't weight as much as the one from players who've been there since closed beta. I'm just trying to share my toughts on what I think would be best for all the players.
So fine, just put all HH maps but I'm pretty sure you'll get that result : aoeable maps will be overcrowded, and all HH maps will be deserted. Wait, isn't it the current situation and the reason why this thread was started ?

Your opinion has the same weight as someone that has been here from CB and its awesome having new opionins in the forums instead of the same ones over and over again. xD I just disagree with your opinion this time :P

But the end result, it doesn't really matter what they do, people will usually still go for whatever is in their best interest, whether others like it or not. But, all in all, this discussion has been very good, and hopefully the GM's can do something about it to maybe help us help eachother. Just my 2 cents

Agreed

poochyenarulez

05-19-2009, 02:21 PM

just add hard hitters to the atleast every other map
that way soloers can have there own map, and aoers can have there map >.<

the main reason people train more in temp, than desert maps is cause, which do u rather go to? turmeit, that is 21 maps away, or temp that is 4 maps away from town(about same lvl monsters i think)?

AzNRuthLess

05-19-2009, 02:44 PM

just add hard hitters to the atleast every other map
that way soloers can have there own map, and aoers can have there map >.<

still doesn't solve anything. aoers will just overcrowd the no HH maps. and a new complaint thread will come out of it. after aoers have had enough with overcrowding, they will move onto maps with HH anyways. result will still be the same. adding HH is a good idea, but to solve this issue at hand, as said before, there really is no resolution. its up to the players themselves to give or take. adding a HH to every other map, wouldn't change much, ppl who grind in those maps will still grind in those maps. i will have to disagree with this idea.

the main reason people train more in temp, than desert maps is cause, which do u rather go to? turmeit, that is 21 maps away, or temp that is 4 maps away from town(about same lvl monsters i think)?

if you go to item store, the item merchant sells something called a Tracker and a Warp Scroll. Not sure if you have heard of those, but yeah, whether 1 map away or 100 maps away, with the click of your mouse, your character will go poooof and go to that map. *sorry, couldn't resist*

if you were to think of that, why not think of this.

Do you want to train in a map thats 4 maps away with constant respawns, no mobs to kill, crowded with other players with (example) .05% per mob, where you get to kill maybe 5 mobs, before a tanker comes and sweeps up the map and then have to wait another 3 minutes or so before another mob appears your way?

OR

Do you want to train in a map thats 21 maps away, but you can use the magical tracker/warping scroll idea i had up above, and train in a map where it is not crowded, mobs are plenty, your exp is constant, you never have to worry about a tanker coming to sweep your mobs, grinding at your own pace, with about the same exp per mob? O.o

Kendrah

05-19-2009, 02:56 PM

I'm all for HH's. I just wish they'd re-work the ice/ desert maps to only have one HH each or at most two normal, two HH. I didn't even look at the new desert maps when I was training my Sin. Why fight for higher lvl maps when I have these perfectly good maps right here?

Now it's like the new, stronger maps hit me as hard as the HH in the maps around my level. Since most of the mobs in the old maps ARE HH's, why should I train there? I'm getting more EXP there for the same risk. Why SHOULD I train in my old ice/ desert maps? (and yes, there is an exp difference, I've tried both.)

So I say add in HH to the new maps, but fix the other maps as well! It would solve a whole lot of congestion!

Ayanami

05-19-2009, 03:22 PM

Yaaay look at all this discussion! I'll pick out just a few quotes to reply to, 'cause man you guys all typed a lot today. >_<

Sorry, but I'm totally against the idea of making Amorica a 1/3 map. Once tankers will reach the level to aoe Amorica, making it 1/3 will just make it harder/impossible for them to level up.

Two points:

1) Amorica and Bangle are very similar in mob level. I only suggested making one or the other 1/3. Making Amorica 1/3 really wouldn't be much different than making Bangle 1/3.

2) Even 1/3 maps can be mobbed effectively, you just need to adapt your aoeing strategy. See Dipple's and others' posts about how it's done. Charon aoed Turmeit (a 1/3 map) until the mobs RAN from him. Heck, back when Edine was the highest map, even when mobs ran, the high level tanks would just recruit some good binders to keep the mobs in place!

Leave Phildevit and Turmeit 1/3 and those maps will really be desert maps, with no people playing on it. Only a handful of archers and mages actually play on those maps because these are too hard, even for mages and archers, and even if there's no spell casters. Believe me I've been there for quite a long time now, and I've always seen the same 2-3 people there... And most of the time, those people were grinding there out of despair, because they couldn't find or buy their lvl 96 gears on the market...
Also, ranged classes usually go to the hardest maps to get the best exp. That's why they will go straight to east Eir maps, thus leaving Turmeit and Phildevit desert.

Sorry, but a level 80 archer has ZERO business going to the East Eir maps unless they are in a big party. More likely, they are just leeching if you see them there. I would say 96+ bare MINIMUM for trying to solo east eir maps. I'm sure I'll get lots of replies from people bragging about how they can solo here as a SCOUT, but whatever.

Anyway, Phildevilt and Turmeit is a very viable option for archers/mages/wizards from levels 80 to 100 or so.

How many of you know what Turmeit Desert was like, prior to Templar Gorge opening up? I recall SO many people gathered at the Cretino safe zone, cowering from the constant respawns, and, oh, the complaints. Think you'll have any better a time grinding in these new maps IF there were even one type of enemy that hit even HARDER?! Just imagine the flood of moaning when pullers decide to get a bit 'risque' and pull those too! Now you will have not just a dangerous respawn, but one filled with random hard hitters that will more than likely ensure your death even moreso than before. In the end it will be yet another thread opened up about overcrowding (and I already have my argument for when it comes. >!D)
^.^

I was in the desert maps throughout all my archer levels (80-112+) and I have NEVER complained about the setup of those maps. Near the end, Turmeit got a little crowded, but the respawn and lack of free mobs was NEVER as bad as Amorica or Bangle.

The people complaining back then will always complain as long as aoe is allowed in the game. You can ignore those people. I think with the East Eir maps, there are now new complainers. Really, I complain, but honestly I could give a crap about the respawn. What really drives me crazy is walking across the whole map and not finding any mobs!

Many aoe parties are VERY considerate, shouting and leaving mobs, and some even buff me as they pass. But sadly, many aoe parties are completely oblivious. I often have trouble with the aoers HITTING and AOEING my mobs because they're not paying attention. Not just once in a while...I'm talking about repeatedly, every time they pass by. I don't think it's an overt act of rudeness, but it's REALLY obnoxious.

And I talk about Amorica and Bangle in particular, but the situation is the same on every East Eir map. It's not like I could just go back a map or two. What if I went all the way back to Turmeit? I think at this point I'd be getting less than 0.01% per kill.

ADDED NOTE: There could be a possible, short term solution, though the implications are something that have been shot down directly by our GMs, and that is CREATE A LEVEL REQUIREMENT BARRIER FOR EACH AND EVERY MAP, SO AS TO FORCIBLY KEEP OUT EXTREMELY LOWER LEVELLED PLAYERS FROM ENTERING AND GRINDING SAID MAPS THUS DRASTICALLY REDUCING COMPLAINTS OF THOSE WHO FULFILL SAID REQUIREMENTS AGAINST THOSE WHO ARE "30, 40, OR EVEN 50 LEVELS" LOWER.

I um, really like this idea. My future exp-booster Xenian will be sad, but for the good of SoS I would totally support this.

It would also give people more to look forward to when they level up!

yanane

05-19-2009, 08:08 PM

1) Amorica and Bangle are very similar in mob level. I only suggested making one or the other 1/3. Making Amorica 1/3 really wouldn't be much different than making Bangle 1/3.

If I remember from last time I party there, there's quite a big difference in exp, even if the monsters or drops level are quite the same. And this is the only reason why people gather in Amorica.
If you really want a HH in Amorica, then it should be 2/3. 1/3 maps are really desert. Even if a few people like them, the majority doesn't. And I'm not making any guess, those are things that I observed while playing.
Anyway, even if Amorica was made all HH, there would be a time when tankers would have to aoe it because they would not have any place higher to level...

2) Even 1/3 maps can be mobbed effectively, you just need to adapt your aoeing strategy. See Dipple's and others' posts about how it's done. Charon aoed Turmeit (a 1/3 map) until the mobs RAN from him. Heck, back when Edine was the highest map, even when mobs ran, the high level tanks would just recruit some good binders to keep the mobs in place!

As I said, those times of doing suicide aoe are in the past, we now need to look forward. There's no more need to use some game hacks such as sz killing to level... If they did it this way it's just because they didn't have any other choice. I'm pretty sure that if they had east Eir maps coming out at the same time as desert maps back then, they would have jumped straight to those maps.

ADDED NOTE: There could be a possible, short term solution, though the implications are something that have been shot down directly by our GMs, and that is CREATE A LEVEL REQUIREMENT BARRIER FOR EACH AND EVERY MAP, SO AS TO FORCIBLY KEEP OUT EXTREMELY LOWER LEVELLED PLAYERS FROM ENTERING AND GRINDING SAID MAPS THUS DRASTICALLY REDUCING COMPLAINTS OF THOSE WHO FULFILL SAID REQUIREMENTS AGAINST THOSE WHO ARE "30, 40, OR EVEN 50 LEVELS" LOWER.

Not a good idea. What about grinding parties ? A good party of 4/5 lvl 80-90 people can easily make it to Amorica (personal experience). Putting level requirement on maps would just kill the fun of playing party. If such a party had to stop, for example, at Odalisque, it would really be unfair and people would feel like playing in a party would be totally rubbish.
Also, I know plvling is quite unfair to the people who work hard their level. I remember joining a party in lost brynhild in which a pot boy was boasting how he got so easily to knight... It's kind of sad when I think that at that level I was doing reflection aoe or mindless solo/party kos for hours, and never joined a lost bryn or library party until I was able to at least help killing.

As for the issue concerning the number of players on a server, it would help if Outspark had an indicator on server population like in Fiesta. Well, it's not gonna resolve anything, but new players would at least have an idea on where they should go if they want to have some monsters to grind :)

AzNRuthLess

05-19-2009, 10:57 PM

As I said, those times of doing suicide aoe are in the past, we now need to look forward. There's no more need to use some game hacks such as sz killing to level... If they did it this way it's just because they didn't have any other choice. I'm pretty sure that if they had east Eir maps coming out at the same time as desert maps back then, they would have jumped straight to those maps.

Wow, this just kind of caught my attention. Game hack? for SZ killing? When did this become a "hack"? I think this is probably one of the most beneficial and harder skills to learn when you're a tank. Sure, those who do not know how to execute it, will kill their fellow comrades, or other players who are by the SZ where they are. But how is this a hack, if it's not using some sort of 3rd party software/device/etc. or rewriting codes/patches to make the gaming easier?

(computing) To make a quick code change to patch a computer program.

That is the definition of hacking, and apparently, if the SZ is there ingame for us to use, and it does what it does, how is this considered hacking?

Well either way, I'd have to say honestly, at the mid/high levels, SZ killing is one of the best if not the best technique to learn and really take advantage of. By learning to execute this technique to its fullest, it is rather one of the quickest ways to level. I used it for my warrior from Inkwell till lvl 97, when Morph/Dan. started running, then I finally ran off to Emp. And each map, I would do until the mobs ran, so exp is rather quicker this way, then picking off only 2/3 of the map, when you can grab 3/3 of the map and still safely kill.

catry

05-20-2009, 12:05 AM

ggBuRNe

05-20-2009, 12:59 AM

Look at the bright side Sak, it could be viewed as a compliment that the techniques older players developed just to get 1 level are now considered "hacks" by the newer players who never got to learn what *real* leveling was about =P

true !!!! rawr ! It was fun to learn. i even tried sometimes just for fun in turmeit since the hard hitters hit 1 damage under magic shield in sz xD. It was hard and definitely helps the tankers to learn how to deal with hard hitters even 2/3 maps. That's how charon and other players got their level in turmeit.. "hacks" ?? wthell~ Nowadays, newer players are babied with so many good updates. It is so easy to get to 3rd class and even 4th is not as hard as it used to with all the def and attk stuffs. *points at someone - 116 in 1 1/2 month* rawr !

yanane

05-20-2009, 04:30 AM

From Wikipedia :
a "hack" can refer to a solution or method which functions correctly but which is "ugly" in its concept, which works outside the accepted structures and norms of the environment

I call it hack, because I don't think the game developers ever tought that players would find a way to turn HH to aoe mon :D

Hacking a software program is totally different from cracking it ;)

But let's not point out that too much or it might get fixed on the next updates ^^;

Kendrah

05-20-2009, 05:01 AM

From Wikipedia :
a "hack" can refer to a solution or method which functions correctly but which is "ugly" in its concept, which works outside the accepted structures and norms of the environment

I call it hack, because I don't think the game developers ever tought that players would find a way to turn HH to aoe mon :D

By your definition, AOEing in general is "hack" and thus, a self-righteous person such as yourself shouldn't partake in it, no? Why do you think we HAVE HH? They weren't in the originally. The game developers never meant for anyone to AOE in the first place.

The only redeeming thing to do is for you to stop AOEing, right? ;)

yanane

05-20-2009, 05:31 AM

Please don't make me say things I haven't said yet :)
AOE is part of the game. AOE skills and killing existed way before SotS ever came out. I ran into many aoe videos on youtube from other mmorpg.
East Eir maps are 3/3 because Outspark definitely wanted us to aoe there.
I even think that the reason why HP and damage are dealt are so different from Xenepic is because they wanted to make AOE easier for us.

But here are the rules of the game concerning sz :
Once in sz, you cannot use your skill and to make things fair, monsters cannot use their 'skill' either. A HH have a regular attack, which hit as hard as an aoe mon, and a 'skill' attack which hits hard. So keeping the mob in sz while you are in combat zone is somewhat 'unfair' to the game's rules, since you can use your skill, but monsters cannot, it's like... cheating (please don't take that last word too seriously). That's why I called it a hack. But a software program won't whine so who cares :D

Anyway I won't call it a hack anymore since it seems to hurt older players, let's say it's a fabulous trick, because I use it too when aoeing ;)

Now please, let's get back on topic :)

Kendrah

05-20-2009, 06:27 AM

ggBuRNe

05-20-2009, 06:34 AM

But here are the rules of the game concerning sz :
Once in sz, you cannot use your skill and to make things fair, monsters cannot use their 'skill' either. A HH have a regular attack, which hit as hard as an aoe mon, and a 'skill' attack which hits hard. So keeping the mob in sz while you are in combat zone is somewhat 'unfair' to the game's rules, since you can use your skill, but monsters cannot, it's like... cheating (please don't take that last word too seriously). That's why I called it a hack. But a software program won't whine so who cares :D

Anyway I won't call it a hack anymore since it seems to hurt older players, let's say it's a fabulous trick, because I use it too when aoeing ;)

Now please, let's get back on topic :)

First of all, there are no rules concerning sz. Second, you are a newb and now you have become a noob with your smart *** comments. Some of your comments are true and some like this above, is just plain stupid and reflecting yourself as a newb or rather a noob!

yanane

05-20-2009, 06:42 AM

If aoeing isn't part of the game, why do aoe skill exist to begin with ??? Aoe skills are definitely there for doing mass killings.
They definitely knew people would be reproducing what they've been doing in other games.

From what you're saying, HH were introduced, just because of people's greediness :S
So it's even more sad to know that since they couldn't reason some people, they had to take measure : HH.

I would almost be tempted to ask for making all maps HH free since it was how it's been originally made XD
Too bad we have to pay for what just a handful of players are doing wrong.
GREED, GREED...

But here are the rules of the game concerning sz :
Once in sz, you cannot use your skill and to make things fair, monsters cannot use their 'skill' either. A HH have a regular attack, which hit as hard as an aoe mon, and a 'skill' attack which hits hard.

Fogger, please prove to me that what I'm saying here is wrong. If you haven't noticed that yet, then you're definitely the noob lol !
I might be a newbie to the game, but that game isn't that complicated too, isn't it :D ?
Well, that's one of the reason why I chose to play it. It has its cute chars and all, and you just have to click with you mouse and hold down function keys... As for the game rules (or mechanics, call it whatever you want), they are pretty simple too. It's not like we're playing some kind of city-building simulation game where you have to deal with tons of functions, icons, economics and all those boring stuffs :D

AzNRuthLess

05-20-2009, 07:31 AM

*points at someone - 116 in 1 1/2 month* rawr !

remember when your pointing at someone, your pointing 3 fingers back at yourslef... :D

Kendrah

05-20-2009, 07:42 AM

remember when your pointing at someone, your pointing 3 fingers back at yourslef... :D

QQ I wanna be 116+ in a month and a half. Dx

himoses

05-20-2009, 07:56 AM

QQ I wanna be 116+ in a month and a half. Dx

Ick. :eek:

Why would you possibly want to be that big of a nerd with no life?

How much would you have to play to get 116 levels in a month and a half? 8 hours a day? 12?

Kendrah

05-20-2009, 08:02 AM

Ick. :eek:

Why would you possibly want to be that big of a nerd with no life?

How much would you have to play to get 116 levels in a month and a half? 8 hours a day? 12?

I know. My natural laziness trumps any need to "be the best". Rawr~

AzNRuthLess

05-20-2009, 08:05 AM

Ick. :eek:

Why would you possibly want to be that big of a nerd with no life?

How much would you have to play to get 116 levels in a month and a half? 8 hours a day? 12?

LOL!! I wonder if that person really has that much time. I'm sorry if it seems that way, but I hear that person only grinds anywhere from only 3-5 hours a day on the weekdays, cuz of work, and errands to run. Then the weekend is the time for him/her to shine, but of course there are days where that person might want to run off to the park and relax and bbq, and just random stuff.

It's not that hard really, it's all about time management. Learn how to grind, when to grind, where to grind, and use/manage your time for grinding to the best possible schedule you can to get the most out of it. :D

yanane

05-20-2009, 08:24 AM

Ayanami, forgot to ask you that, but when will that coucil meeting be ?
I guess they won't be doing any modifications in today's server maintenance...

Ayanami

05-20-2009, 09:33 AM

Ayanami, forgot to ask you that, but when will that coucil meeting be ?
I guess they won't be doing any modifications in today's server maintenance...

The meeting is scheduled for tonight.

And no, there probably won't be any modifications in tonight's server maintenance. I'm looking forward to a housing update, but given that we've been treated to all sorts of new stuff lately (wings, accessories and enhanced pets), I'm OK with the past few weeks with no updates.

You know I wonder how much power the GMs/Outspark have to change the game without DNC's involvement. I know they can alter experience and drop rates (and I think they can control how many mobs are on a map), spawn items/mobs at will, warp, drop items on people, jail and ban people, and change around store items and pricing. I wonder if changing the damage that mobs do is something simple that Outspark can do at will, or if it's something that needs to go through DNC first (and must ultimately be released as a patch). It's probably the later case.

BellaAnimorum

05-20-2009, 10:41 AM

You know I wonder how much power the GMs/Outspark have to change the game without DNC's involvement. I know they can alter experience and drop rates (and I think they can control how many mobs are on a map), spawn items/mobs at will, warp, drop items on people, jail and ban people, and change around store items and pricing. I wonder if changing the damage that mobs do is something simple that Outspark can do at will, or if it's something that needs to go through DNC first (and must ultimately be released as a patch). It's probably the later case.

Indeed, as they have told us already, anything having to deal with the game coding is something that must be dealt with by DNC first and foremost, then Outspark decides if they want to include it with a game update.

ON TOPIC: There should be monsters that can damage us on a no-matter-what basis, such as the mobs in the various lairs that have come out. These enemies, though their attacks do get dampened by having a higher defence, are ultimately capable of killing even the strongest player because their damage simply ignores our defences. By creating such monsters with a generally high amount of damage capability and setting them throughout certain maps, you present the challenge of mobs that simply cannot be collected en masse (without the high risk of dying.) That way, even the safe zone trick doesn't help and there would be a very high chance that mobbers will stun/ignore said enemies, leaving them for target practice by our long-range comrades and thus solving the issue of "there is never anything to kill when tanks grab the whole map".

^.^

poochyenarulez

05-20-2009, 02:17 PM

yanane, have u ever thought about another class that doesn't aoe to gain lvls?

u seem to only care about aoe, and thinking its the only way to lvl
most classes have to single kill monsters to gain lvls, and if all maps were hard hitter less, there would never be anything to kill cause the aoers have taken all the monsters for aoe~
we need hh in maps and quest drops in sleepless, that way, we will get monsters to kill in maps if some1 is aoeing, and people woun't overcrownd amor, since most will be in sleepless, aoeing

tazsbigtoy

05-20-2009, 02:42 PM

Well I am for adding hard hitters to the new maps to help out the ranged classes and to make them a bit more or a challenge. And I am for altering the maps past chant and blackmail to make them more aoe friendly, but I don't really think that is going to help much with crowding in the new maps. People in this game rush to the maps they think will give them the most experience quickest and that is the new maps. Even increasing the aoeable mobs in the maps past Edine and Chant probably won't pull people out of those maps because the experience isn't going to be as good, but it might give people outleveling Edine and Chant other places to go before hitting those maps, increase the amount of rare gear in the market , and give people not wanting to deal with the overcrowded new maps some options.

yanane

05-20-2009, 04:36 PM

I don't know for the other people, but I will go there. I currently have the def to aoe from blackmail to simpson. Have tried simpson, but it's a real pain. You have 3 HH out of 2 that are aggro. Yes 3 out of 2 ^^ ! I have to repot every two round, and I usually carry 50 mp and 250 hp... If those maps should ever become more aoe friendly, I would be one of the first to jump straight to those because suiciding in Temp is starting to get really dangerous :(

Poochy, let me explain a couple things to you. If you would have read more carefuly my previous posts in this thread you wouldn't have to ask me those questions.

yanane, have u ever thought about another class that doesn't aoe to gain lvls?

u seem to only care about aoe, and thinking its the only way to lvl

I'm pretty sure you're talking about archers, mage and acos (though acos have it easy now with templar maps...)
The big difference between melee classes and long range classes is that long range can 'KIT'. So if they're skilled at it, they can solo to the highest map where their bind skill will work and get sometimes around .30 exp per mob, which at higher level is AWESOME exp, while leveling safely. Melee cant do this, because they have to take in all the damage, thus using lots of kron with high chances of dying. And on maps where they can solo without taking an excessive amount of damage, they usually get 0.02-0.03 exp per monster. Even if you could get as many SC pots as you want, I don't think even you would like to solo kill 3,000 to 5,000 monsters to level...
That's why we do aoe.

Also, as I explained, I'm not asking for aoeable maps only because I want to level. Must be the around the 5th time I'm saying it ^^; , but we need aoe to provide the market with lvl 96-103 gears. Just take a look around you in the shops opened by players. Tons of lvl 70-80 gears from lost bryn and library, and recently lots of lvl 112+ gears from Templar and beyond. Very few lvl 96-103 gears, and if there are, at very very high prices. Well, you'll just see it yourself once you'll reach the level to wear those gears... You will even have trouble finding the skill books...

So I'm not asking for aoeable maps only out of selfishness, I'm also trying to help the community, and the game economy.

most classes have to single kill monsters to gain lvls, and if all maps were hard hitter less, there would never be anything to kill cause the aoers have taken all the monsters for aoe~

Well it depends on people... Ayanami said that when she was soloing people would leave her monsters and the healer would even buff her. Same things happened to me when I was grinding in a party. But sadly, some would just don't even care about you and wipe everything on the way. It's all about sharing. You meet nice people, you meet bad people. Just depends on your chance.

we need hh in maps and quest drops in sleepless, that way, we will get monsters to kill in maps if some1 is aoeing, and people woun't overcrownd amor, since most will be in sleepless, aoeing

I never said I was against putting HH, please refer to my propositions of maps layout 2-3 pages back.
As someone already explained to you Poochy, Sleepless grave is a DUNGEON. What's different between that dungeon and Amorica ? Something important enough so that everybody is not going there : EXP.
To summarize, why are people not going to Sleepless grave instead of Amorica ?
- bad exp compared to Amorica
- monsters with a lot more of HP
- I don't know about the drops, but they're probably not as interesting as Amorica's

If you want to get a better idea of why I'm asking for more aoe friendly maps in south Edine and desert maps, just read all my previous posts.

ON TOPIC: There should be monsters that can damage us on a no-matter-what basis, such as the mobs in the various lairs that have come out. These enemies, though their attacks do get dampened by having a higher defence, are ultimately capable of killing even the strongest player because their damage simply ignores our defences. By creating such monsters with a generally high amount of damage capability and setting them throughout certain maps, you present the challenge of mobs that simply cannot be collected en masse (without the high risk of dying.) That way, even the safe zone trick doesn't help and there would be a very high chance that mobbers will stun/ignore said enemies, leaving them for target practice by our long-range comrades and thus solving the issue of "there is never anything to kill when tanks grab the whole map".

^.^

Pretty good idea. Actually, I think it's the case in Xenepic. I've seen a video of a warlord in pirate ship that was getting hit around 30-50 by the monsters (when in Solstice he would get only hit 1s and 2s, I'm not even sure the skeletons would aggro him :D). Even if they have much more HP than us, probably more than 5000, it's harder to appreciate how many monsters you could tank. Also, you won't get as many missing hits, thus getting mob locked easier. People would then have to mob small. But in return, I heard from a GM that you get more exp from monsters in Xenepic.

poochyenarulez

05-20-2009, 04:59 PM

I never said I was against putting HH, please refer to my propositions of maps layout 2-3 pages back.
As someone already explained to you Poochy, Sleepless grave is a DUNGEON. What's different between that dungeon and Amorica ? Something important enough so that everybody is not going there : EXP.
To summarize, why are people not going to Sleepless grave instead of Amorica ?
- bad exp compared to Amorica
- monsters with a lot more of HP
- I don't know about the drops, but they're probably not as interesting as Amorica's

thats y i said add quest items there lost bryn has bad exp, but people aoe there for the bones aka quest items~

and since it has so much more exp, people will get 2 or 3 aoers there, that is 2 or 3 less aoers that will be in amor, that way, mages, archers, and clerics can have an easier time there

OmegaTrooper

05-20-2009, 05:35 PM

And about respawns, I'll say it again, if you can't handle them, it means you're lacking the skill for soloing there. So maybe it's time for you to take a break from soloing and get into a grinding party. We were a party composed of level 80-100 people (so a weak party for such a map) but we handled Amorica's huge respawn without having anyone dying. We also had to deal with some Evil_Ranger who was constantly pulling mobs and bramblewaying it just beside our party, clearly with the intent of killing our little bunch of noobs (though it always failed to kill any of us )... Oh, but grinding party (though in Amorica it was more like group suicide aoeing) are not good I guess, since the exp is so bad :S...

That was a bad assumption how can you even say this about players if you don't even know them and
Alot of them have been in the game for a long time and are higher level then you they went through alot to get their level , another thing you havent been to amor you have no idea how ridiculous the respawns are, sure we can bind them but we have cool downs on our skills then we die before we can cast and long ranged players have low defense no matter how good the gears most of us range from lvl 11x-13x at those maps its the highest map and we get around .3-.1 or less you guys complain about not having enough mobs when you guys basically get alot of drops and get tons of exp more then 1% sometimes from aoeing so yeah.

yanane

05-20-2009, 05:58 PM

another thing you havent been to amor you have no idea how ridiculous the respawns are

... have you even read what you quoted from me..?

And it's definitely YES, you shouldn't be SOLOing there. If you can't handle Amorica's huge respawns, then it's time for you to forget about soloing and getting into a party. I do take binders in my aoe parties, mage or archers, I don't care.

Time for you to find your own partymates in Amorica, to get your share from the absurd amount of loots dropping from a mob...

ps: please add some punctuation in your posts, they are kind of hard to read...

holli_hobbi

05-20-2009, 06:05 PM

We've had a lot of discussion about this topic now, and I was wondering if its possible to add a poll to the thread, or if we would have to make a new thread to do that. I think it would be interesting to get a tabulation of those in favor of adding HH to the new maps, and another to see how many would be in favor of making the ice/desert maps more aoeable to increase the gear drops for that lvl range.

joshiasi

05-20-2009, 06:07 PM

solo to the highest map where their bind skill will work and get sometimes around .30 exp per mob, which at higher level is AWESOME exp, while leveling safely. Melee cant do this, because they have to take in all the damage, thus using lots of kron with high chances of dying. And on maps where they can solo without taking an excessive amount of damage, they usually get 0.02-0.03 exp per monster. Even if you could get as many SC pots as you want, I don't think even you would like to solo kill 3,000 to 5,000 monsters to level...
That's why we do aoe.

0.30 per mob!!! thats awesome exp!!! and to say that solo killing 3000-5000 mobs is not an option so thats why we aoe... think of the rangers that dont even get to aoe all the time.... most of the aoe parties in amor consist of tank and healer.... i am happy that i get to aoe at times for a ranger...

but for us... solo killing is the way to go... getting 0.02 per kill is normal to me... i was even levelling when phil was the highes map getting 0.005 per kill... u guys have it easy... so u just dont know how it is like to kite all the way from 0-100% to lvl... but we do

OmegaTrooper

05-20-2009, 06:16 PM

... have you even read what you quoted from me..?

And it's definitely YES, you shouldn't be SOLOing there. If you can't handle Amorica's huge respawns, then it's time for you to forget about soloing and getting into a party. I do take binders in my aoe parties, mage or archers, I don't care.

Time for you to find your own partymates in Amorica, to get your share from the absurd amount of loots dropping from a mob...

ps: please add some punctuation in your posts, they are kind of hard to read...

lmao wow that hurt no. Look You don't change topic to punctuation look I can solo there and the thing is greedy aoers take all the mobs but then I've seen lots of people die from respawns suicide aoers mostly. Like you said .3 is good exp but try soloing .01 exp from turmiet and .02. Doesn't matter if you take binders that's not gonna change anything. I party with my guild and I get enough drops. But I don't think you'd understand.

yanane

05-20-2009, 06:31 PM

Joshiashi, I guess now you're talking about another problem.
At your level aoeing would be best for leveling... and I understand the problem about you not being able to find an aoe party all the time. When I aoe, if I get hit 1s and 2s, I don't really need a healer. I would take a healer just to make it easier, though I could perfectly do it solo. Same goes for binders, it makes killing way easier, but they're not essential.

Someone already pointed that out : tanker/healer/binder parties are not favorites anymore. The best solution to that could be Varn's proposition about monsters that would hit hard no matter what def you have. People would then have to make those kind of parties.

Another solution could be a different exp curve for ranged classes, but I guess that would be kind of hard for Outspark to do...

OmegaTrooper : I guess you're definitely not reading and understanding what I'm trying to tell you... So I give up.

poochyenarulez

05-20-2009, 06:58 PM

... have you even read what you quoted from me..?

And it's definitely YES, you shouldn't be SOLOing there. If you can't handle Amorica's huge respawns, then it's time for you to forget about soloing and getting into a party.

i'll pt up to 3 archers at once, all lvl 110+ we still get killed by respawns

and your keep saying, u should aoe, aoe, aoe, don't single kill, aoe!
personly, i prefer single killing

not everyone likes to aoe >.<

OmegaTrooper

05-20-2009, 07:03 PM

Btw where do you think Respawns come from they come from aoers. We as Long ranged have no control over respawns we aren't causing them the AoErs are do you think that is fair. The AoEers themselves are killing us with respawns.

holli_hobbi

05-21-2009, 01:37 AM

Now, I'm friends with Yanane, but I do have to ask... who is in this hypothetical party the archers and mages should be in for single killing? The tankers are all busy aoeing, so that leaves archers, wizards, healers and maybe rogue/assassins. Of those four, the only ones who MIGHT have the def to take a respawn mob is the rogue/assassin. And even that would only be with a really good healer to spam heal them. I mean, thats the reason aoe etiquette includes shouting your kills... because respawns are dangerous. Not just on the new maps, but on any map. I have noticed there is almost no aoe etiquiette observed on the new maps. People rarely shout their kills. And they do take the WHOLE map. Is it really so horrible to share and be polite?

In Yanane's defense, she truly is good about having other people in her party to heal, bind, etc, even if she doesn't HAVE to have them.

yanane

05-21-2009, 03:15 AM

Holli, I have a couple of idea about some of the reasons why aoers do not shout their killings :
- suicide aoers have so much stress on them that they don't have the time to shout, or they would get killed by their mob
- aoers that were alone on the map and haven't seen the new people coming.
- on overcrowded maps, you know there's two or more other aoe party, so you know they can handle it. Well actually, they are just waiting for that respawn.
- extremely rude people complaining so much that... well the aoer just get full of it and doesn't care anymore about shouting the kill (each time I went to Amorica, someone was there complaining).
- people that just don't care about the aoe etiquette. It's not in the TOS, you don't have to shout killings, that is just something that was decided between players.
- no more white eggs...
- they simply forget to !

And that's pretty true Holli. In a party without a Templar or a Fighter, only the sin/rogue has the life saving skill (sandstorm) that could save the party if it shall be overwhelmed by the respawn.

Poochy, Making a party with three archers in a map that's 40-30 level above their level, obviously knowing there would be respawns is just... well how could I say it... suicidal ? If you're going at some place where you know that aoers won't shout their kills, and you know you won't be able to change anything about it, then just prepare yourself a little better, get a better party. I know you shouldn't have to, that those greedy aoers should be the ones to change, that they should be banned... But you know what, even in real life, life is pretty unfair, and only the strongest/wealthier are right :'(

This is how we were handling respawns in Amorica. We were one healer, one rogue, an archer and myself, all level 85-100. As soon as the first monsters start respawning, we immediately go into alert mode, trying to get into a corner or any good spot where we wouldn't suffer much from the respawn. We would regroup, I would blaze, the healer would buff us all then just spam major heal like crazy. We would start killing only the aggro one by one. If more than 3 aggro, and it was the case most of the time, I would immediately spam wild swing to tank all the monsters. When I'm on blaze I have around 900 HP which allows me to tank 6-7 monsters while getting hit around 80-90. The rogue would then circle trap, taking some monsters off of me, and the archer would do the usual brambleway and reticle trap. While doing this, if the archer would get hit, the rogue or me would immediately stun that ennemy, then we would go back to our aoe skill spamming. If we felt that the conclusion to this would be inevitably death, then the rogue just knew he had to do one thing : sandstorm... bye bye exp... But he actually rarely had to do it since we ended up victorious most of the time ^^.
Edit : You need an extremely skilled healer for that, he must be able to switch very quickly from major heal to single healing his partymate who's in the worst condition, while keeping an eye on buff timers. Also, the other partymates must watch each other, and use all of their stun skills at their best and at the right time. Something that is simply impossible for plvled players...

Whenever I get in a map with a party, and that the map is empty, I obviously know that an aoer is there, so I just warn my partymates to watch out for respawn. I have never ever complained about a respawn. Those are part of the game for me. They are part of the fun, excitement, challenge... If I shall I die from a respawn, then that means I wasn't good enough. If I die from a respawn in a map that's 20 or more level above my own level, I would blame it only on my noobiness for playing in such a hard map and just laugh about it. Not gonna blame it on the aoer.

I don't know anything about solo playing on higher leveled maps because I simply can't solo there. I have no other choice but to rely on teamwork to save my life.

Ayanami, could you give us some feedback from the coucil meeting :) ?

Ayanami

05-21-2009, 09:32 AM

Holli, I have a couple of idea about some of the reasons why aoers do not shout their killings :
- suicide aoers have so much stress on them that they don't have the time to shout, or they would get killed by their mob
- aoers that were alone on the map and haven't seen the new people coming.
- on overcrowded maps, you know there's two or more other aoe party, so you know they can handle it. Well actually, they are just waiting for that respawn.
- extremely rude people complaining so much that... well the aoer just get full of it and doesn't care anymore about shouting the kill (each time I went to Amorica, someone was there complaining).
- people that just don't care about the aoe etiquette. It's not in the TOS, you don't have to shout killings, that is just something that was decided between players.
- no more white eggs...
- they simply forget to !

I know that people in the high level maps don't shout much...I've kinda gotten used to it, so I don't complain about it. But at the same time I don't really see why people can't just do it to be polite.

To respond to some of your hypotheses:

If someone is so suicidal in their aoe that they (or another party member) can't take the time to shout an egg for fear of DEATH, I think they have little business being on that map.
Usually in Amorica there is at least one solo killing party at any given time. I think it's be fair to say that most aoers KNOW or ASSUME someone else is on the map.
Map overcrowding...I really think this is a BIG reason why people don't shout. The other day in Amorica, one aoer (who had been shouting) whispers to me "this other aoer isn't shouting warnings, so I'm not going to either" to warn me. This implies that if he shouted, the other aoer would take advantage of this and time his gathering to collect all the respawns.
People complaining...I think this is a big reason also. I agree that there are many complainers, so it gets very easy to ignore them. But when doing this, you ignore the legitimate complaints as well.
I think that people not caring about etiquette is a significant reason too. They aoe so much, that a white egg is just an extra boring step to take.
Out of white eggs....forget to shout...these are lame excuses.

Poochy, Making a party with three archers in a map that's 40-30 level above their level, obviously knowing there would be respawns is just... well how could I say it... suicidal ? If you're going at some place where you know that aoers won't shout their kills, and you know you won't be able to change anything about it, then just prepare yourself a little better, get a better party. I know you shouldn't have to, that those greedy aoers should be the ones to change, that they should be banned... But you know what, even in real life, life is pretty unfair, and only the strongest/wealthier are right :'(

Please go and make a ranger, then come back here and tell me the same exact thing. I'll wait. :)

A map that's "our level" might be waaaay back in the desert maps. Like I said, Turmeit would give me less than 0.01% now. So, where are we supposed to train then? Should we be FORCED to beg our way into aoe parties? Or should we form HUGE parties where the experience ends up sucking because it's split between 8 people? Aoe may be the most efficient way for a melee character to gain exp, but for high level ranged characters, usually soloing/duoing is most efficient.

Amorica and the East Eir maps are PERFECTLY soloable for a 100-110+ ranged character WHEN THERE ARE NO AOERS around. But when an entire map gets DUMPED on you with no warning, things are different. While a 130 warlord or shadow master might be in fine shape to handle it, a 130 ranger or archmage may still have trouble.

Whenever I get in a map with a party, and that the map is empty, I obviously know that an aoer is there, so I just warn my partymates to watch out for respawn. I have never ever complained about a respawn. Those are part of the game for me. They are part of the fun, excitement, challenge... If I shall I die from a respawn, then that means I wasn't good enough. If I die from a respawn in a map that's 20 or more level above my own level, I would blame it only on my noobiness for playing in such a hard map and just laugh about it. Not gonna blame it on the aoer.

Respawn is an artificial condition created COMPLETELY by the aoer. One would hope that the aoer would acknowledge this and at least shout a warning.

But like I said before. I can deal with respawn. It's annoying, sure; but FAR more obnoxious is when you run around the entire map looking for mobs to kill.

Ayanami, could you give us some feedback from the coucil meeting :) ?

Actually, it ended up being canceled. :( Outspark actually LOST POWER during the meeting. I guess Murdock logged in from an internet cafe to tell everyone the meeting would be rescheduled.

yanane

05-21-2009, 06:59 PM

If someone is so suicidal in their aoe that they (or another party member) can't take the time to shout an egg for fear of DEATH, I think they have little business being on that map.

Well, many tankers, like me, don't have much choice at the moment... That's why I'm asking for a fix on the 1/3 maps. I know I'm even annoying some of the aoers there that have the required def to aoe those maps. But you also have to keep in mind that we can't kit and kill as fast as long range classes.

This implies that if he shouted, the other aoer would take advantage of this and time his gathering to collect all the respawns.

Forgot to talk about those... And it's not only in Amorica, I had to deal with this problem many times in Chantery and Edine. But to resolve this, you would have to make people change.... a thing that's impossible to do.

Out of white eggs....forget to shout...these are lame excuses.

I know, I know... I was just trying to add a little fun in the discussion, won't try again ^^; (I should have put emos :o)

Please go and make a ranger, then come back here and tell me the same exact thing. I'll wait. :)

I would really like to make one (to finally get some wins in pvp :D), though I would actually prefer to try to make a healer ^^. But I really don't have the time, just my warrior is taking all my free time, so I will trust your words on long range classes.

A map that's "our level" might be waaaay back in the desert maps. Like I said, Turmeit would give me less than 0.01% now. So, where are we supposed to train then? Should we be FORCED to beg our way into aoe parties? Or should we form HUGE parties where the experience ends up sucking because it's split between 8 people? Aoe may be the most efficient way for a melee character to gain exp, but for high level ranged characters, usually soloing/duoing is most efficient.

Once long range class will reach Amorica's map level, I guess it will get the same exp as the tankers, and I think soloing is gonna be pretty hard. Even though they kill relatively fast, I still think they will need lots of patience. And beside joining an aoe party, I don't know if long range classes will level efficiently... But tankers and long range classes have different views on what is leveling efficiently and how you level efficiently.

So what to do ?
Make Amorica 1/3 ?
Fair to long range classes, but quite unfair to Tankers.
Make Amorica 2/3 ?
Fair to tankers, but still unfair to long range classes. I also think the respawns will still be dangerous for them...
Make Amorica 2/4 ?
Good solution I think, but then I don't know if Outspark could easily add a new monster in the map... most probably impossible to do.
It might also lead to some hard mob grabbing competition between tankers.

The best solution would definitely be Varn's solution about making the monsters hit a certain amount of damage no matter the def. That would limit the mob size that people would pull and thus decrease the size of the respawn while leaving monsters for long range classes to kill. It will also greatly change the way people will have to play, and the tanker/healer/binder party will become popular once again (though I did lots of those in lost bryn and library). But given the current exp curve, leveling might become pretty hard and long... I don't know if many people will appreciate it. Unless Outspark changes the exp per monster to compensate this... but that's probably never gonna happen.

I'm running out of ideas now... I really don't know what feasible solution could be fair to everyone.
If changes shall be made, I guess I will just have to deal with it :)

Actually, it ended up being canceled. :( Outspark actually LOST POWER during the meeting. I guess Murdock logged in from an internet cafe to tell everyone the meeting would be rescheduled.

Bad news :(
I hope this meeting will really bring some change to the current layout of the maps.

Selenityhime

05-22-2009, 12:44 AM

First to yanane, although I disagree with you, I commend you for sticking to your convictions, and most of all for your patience and good attitude. :)

Part of the reason for my support for hh in the east eir maps is because they offer the best xp in the game. Either hh should be introduced to make it fair and accessible to all players, or more preferrably, the xp should be brought down. I really don’t care if there are hh-less maps. It would be kindof nice for the aoers to have somewhere to go so they’re not always taking over the other maps. Many a player, including myself, get tired of the lag, respawn, and empty maps, even with fair and polite aoers sometimes.

And yes I think it’s a fair complaint, since aoeing by nature often requires the aoer to be working a map beneath his or her lvl. It’s kindof like the 6th graders taking over the 3th graders playground. Saying that they shouldn’t be there if they can’t handle the respawn is not a fair statement. Only an aoer with an insane amount of defense, on a board several lvls beneath him, could survive an onslaught of 6-10 aggro respawn by himself.

This is not to say I have never aoed. I have a few friends who are aoe, and I have healed for them, but quite frankly, I personally don’t see the appeal.

I am a healer who enjoys going to the hardest maps my party can push to (which is why I wanted to play in East Eir). I love the thrill of getting mobbed and somehow coming out alive. I love challenge. I fight as well as heal, and I love balancing the two in a good battle. I would be really disappointed if the Edine maps were made easier. Instead, I hope they would just add those drops to other maps.

“Then why do you not like respawn and aoers?” you ask. Automatic mob, right? That’s honestly not too bad as long as its just one aoer, and they leave some monsters. But they do often cause lag, and in the life and death situations I like to be in, nothing is more frustrating than lag from an aoer. Another reason is because, until that respawn happens, there often is not much else on the board to hit. It can take several minutes for an aoer to kill, and the wait gets boring. Then they come and take everything all over again.

But the most current and pressing problem is simply, there are too many aoers. With more and more aoers, and less and less maps for me to challenge myself in as I level (not to mention they are ridiculously far to get to), there just isn’t too much to choose from. I don’t mind sharing a board with an aoer, but when there are only so many boards, and one person, maybe two or three (8 is NOT common except in East Eir), are taking over a whole map intended for several people at once, how is that fair? :confused:

Maybe yanane is right. Maybe they did make the new maps hh-less on purpose to give the aoers a place to aoe, and maybe that’s why the xp is so high, for large parties. But the xp is too high.The east eir maps are creating these aoers very, very fast in a level quick environment, while soloers and grinding parties do not have a place to level so quick, so there are not so many. These higher level aoers, who learned their poor etiquette of aoeing in east eir, are in turn spreading out to other maps, overcrowding them. The way some of them stake their claim is laughable. I’ve seen so many shout fights over “their” map. I’ve even walked onto a map and had someone run up and say, “This map is taken”, and another, “This map has aoe”. Oh really? What if I don’t want it to have aoe? Do I get a say? You don’t see me running up to an aoer and saying “This map has grinders”. So many aoers now do not shout their kills, do not ask at all.

To all you fair and considerate aoers out there, I do apologize. I know not everyone is so rude. It does only take a few unfortunately. Problem is, that number is growing quick, as there are more and more aoers, and only so many hunting grounds on maps that were originally designed for many people at once.

As for lvl limited maps, I must say I’m against this, at least on a broadscale, both because I wouldn’t be able to get to those hard maps I enjoy, and because I have friends over many different lvls I wouldn’t be able to party with. I would, however, favor lvl limited dungeons, with only a range of lvls, say 10 or so, allowed in.

himoses

05-22-2009, 07:07 AM

There is always the option of people announcing their presence on the maps and asking for the aoer to shout. That is my policy when I am on my ranged classes. It works about 40% of the time. When I am aoeing, I could be on a map for 3 hours with no one even passing. Suddenly, I get a complaint to please shout when killing in the 3rd hour as someone just entered the map.

Some possible solutions: Post a message that x-person has entered a map. Another option is to have mobs flash for ten seconds after respawn where they would not attack. When I am on my ranged classes, I will typically have a warp or return scroll handy once respawn occurs if I am on a map I cannot handle respawns.

tazsbigtoy

05-22-2009, 07:33 AM

[QUOTE=Selenityhime;2342375]

And yes I think it’s a fair complaint, since aoeing by nature often requires the aoer to be working a map beneath his or her lvl. It’s kindof like the 6th graders taking over the 3th graders playground. Saying that they shouldn’t be there if they can’t handle the respawn is not a fair statement. Only an aoer with an insane amount of defense, on a board several lvls beneath him, could survive an onslaught of 6-10 aggro respawn by himself.

QUOTE]

I am not understanding what you are saying here. You say aoe often requires working a map beneath the aoer's level, but in this game monsters with white names are considerred level appropriate. Thanks to items such as defense cloaks, bells, horror masks, hockey masks, defense pets, ect. many people can now aoe mobs pink to bright red to them, although if their attack is not sufficient they may take forrever to kill the mob. Attempting to aoe mobs that are grey to blue, in other words of a level below the aoer is generally impossible as unless the mobs die from the first hit, they will usually run before they are half dead. It might be possible to use a binder to kill mobs but considerring the poor experience and drops, this would probably only be done if the purpose of the aoe was to get a special drop, say ssf, which even then would probably be more trouble than the poor drop rate would justify. Your also say that only an aoer with insane defense working a map well below his level could handle 6 to 8 respawn. Again, if you are on a map with mobs with white names, that map is your level. If your are mobbing the map, excluding suicide aoe minimobs, obviously you can handle 6 to 8 respawn. My confusion is why you think aoers are on maps below their level, I guess.

siruschaos

05-22-2009, 09:04 AM

I am not understanding what you are saying here. You say aoe often requires working a map beneath the aoer's level, but in this game monsters with white names are considerred level appropriate. Thanks to items such as defense cloaks, bells, horror masks, hockey masks, defense pets, ect. many people can now aoe mobs pink to bright red to them, although if their attack is not sufficient they may take forrever to kill the mob. Attempting to aoe mobs that are grey to blue, in other words of a level below the aoer is generally impossible as unless the mobs die from the first hit, they will usually run before they are half dead. It might be possible to use a , the highest level so far...haha, I'm actually not rushing cause I can live on maps that are [binder to kill mobs but considerring the poor experience and drops, this would probably only be done if the purpose of the aoe was to get a special drop, say ssf, which even then would probably be more trouble than the poor drop rate would justify. Your also say that only an aoer with insane defense working a map well below his level could handle 6 to 8 respawn. Again, if you are on a map with mobs with white names, that map is your level. If your are mobbing the map, excluding suicide aoe minimobs, obviously you can handle 6 to 8 respawn. My confusion is why you think aoers are on maps below their level, I guess.

This being said, is one of my biggest issues I am having now with all this outside defense gained without leveling up to earn the better gears. Too many are actually aoeing blood red maps and feel like "They just have to". Its already enough spoiling once you feel you cannot actually step down a Map just because you have the "defense" rather than actually going by your level. If you actually worked hard up to my point, you'll realize how much of a sham this balance is in the game. Solstice really has suffered due to so many temptations that toy with a human's control on thier greed.

I have three maps left for myself to actually aoe if I want to farm things like Sirius' Stars and Silkions...its why I grind still mostly, not to rush and level unlike so many others. Amorica Forest, Bangle Valley, and Madigras Valley. All three get plagued by aoers who feel like "I (My guild) own the map, I gotta wipe the map clean, etc." Anyone who has seen me aoe knows I first of all never, wipe the map clean. It's stupid and selfish if its just you and a healer (especially if you can solo aoe). Even with a big party...be considerate! Leave mobs especially for the soloists and aoers who are sharing a map, someone please turn the other direction instead of trying to race ahead with your mob to out aoe the other person. I hate when I'm aoeing and poof, another aoer appears and keeps trying to out run me rather than just kill his/her mob.

Defense already is like overpowered (for leveling maps, not pvp) and the aoe outbreak is creating way more hostile enviroments. There needs to be more level limits on defense gained if this is how its gonna be with aoe. My suggestion is space the Level Requirement of enhancing more so players actually have more reasons to level and not reach such defense so quickly to rule maps farther ahead so soon. It's simply not a must have to level constantly on Blood Red Maps, for the White level mobs are supposed to be good enough to level on.

It's a proven fact everyone's excuse is just to rush in leveling to aoe a higher map. Seriously, ever thought though why should to rush closer and closer to 180? The way its looking, we're gonna have nothing but pvp once you achieve that. Before you even question me since I know I'm the highest level, I first of all will say I'm not spending my time on the map that always gives the best exp to level. I solo aoe alot for drops which is what gets me to level still...and I certainly have no complaints on whatever map I can have that gives me the least competition, and more importantly the least lag.

You're all rushing for nothing in the long run. Part of the biggest problem with this game now is "I gotta have it now"...we as humans will always have this greed thought in our hearts. It's up to us to control it however, and realize we should enjoy what we have and as long you don't quit, you'll eventually earn better rewards. Yes you want the 4th class, the skills, all that stuff but you gotta realize what should be the most important point to playing this game should be. I got to lv150+ because while I have lost some friendships due to this game changing overtime, I still had those I could call upon to keep going and enjoy my time here. I'm not doing it to hold some highest level title grip in order to boast (though it is a little neat to enjoy something first I won't lie about that. But honestly, its not worth the frustrations that come with it).

I know for certain I don't gloat about my level even when, say I have squires praising me in awe. I just let them know to keep on playing and they will get there too someday. I would like to see more respectful players for once amongst my class so this is the advice I give being the highest level. I really wish I could be a better role model, but too many people are letting this game change them and their outlook on others so easily. It's very hard now to uphold good relationships and being the highest level is ALWAYS gonna get haters and bad talk on your character than positive...the slightest issue in a scuffle can leave a permanent bad scar. But I certainly shouldn't be forced to stop playing what I am enjoying personally.

All in all, rushing is what is killing this game. It's just a game first of all...with no real objective whatsoever except what you make your own. Enjoy this game with all the people you'll meet. Nobody in the long run will care about your in-game achievements. They will know you by the actions on how you show yourself to be! Take it easy and relax, make friendships over enemies, and most importantly have fun and help others enjoy this game too. This game is meant to be a simple portion of enjoyment in our actual lives.

Ok, post was a bit more personal thought based but just wanted to get some of my thoughts out. This community has to get along more if it wants to survive however... x.x

----

Side rant to past discussion: Oh and to the TALK ABOUT SZ AOEING BEING A CHEAT, you can shove it cause that seriously insults me. That was some true aoe skill at work and I don't care what anyone says just because I got ahead with it. Makes me really enjoy my Warlord knowing how much harder I worked for it than any other Warlord. I care alot more about that work I did than being known as the 1st Warlord itself.

BellaAnimorum

05-22-2009, 10:12 AM

Makes me really enjoy my Warlord knowing how much harder I worked for it than any other Warlord. I care alot more about that work I did than being known as the 1st Warlord itself.

OFF TOPIC: Excuse me? You had some relevant points up to here, but this is the real insult. You used SparkCash just like the rest of us, in fact, when you started playing there were way better maps for experience out than some of us who REALLY worked our way from the bottom up.
Thank you, keep the paranoia to yourself.

CyberPhoenixSlayer

05-22-2009, 10:13 AM

I really think rushing in this game has become a serious problem now that new items and quest has been released and even so, that problem has begun since the hard desert and ice maps has been implemented in the game(Chant/Blackmail and above). People dosen't even realize that this game is a grindfest and not a game with a lot of quest(not anymore since they put the new houses items quests, but even so...). Some people think that the best way to be a high lv character is to rush in the hardest maps thinking that they will level up much faster this way? Im sorry to say it, but a lot of people i see playing this game has retired theirs characters because they have:

-either rush too fast to lv up and get bored because they feel there nothing left to do in this game.
-either they are not be able to buy their gears at the level they are because it's too expensive to buy them.
-either they want to be powerleveled and dosen't care about the character they use to receive comment like: you're the worst aoer i have never seen, you are the worst healer of this game, no one want u anymore on this game, ur a leecher or u are a annoying person that want just attention and shout like he was permitted to do everything that he want on the hardest map.

There a another point that i want to mention:

There again we have a thread about the fact there no hard hitter on the East eir maps and a lot of complains that the maps get overcrownded by aoers that some dosen't even care about the others and think they own the maps(what this? wow, aoers that want to cause troubles). If a aoer or some cause trouble on these maps or even harrassing the others, u know what to do. There a little button called ''Print Screen'' on your keyboard to take a screenshot, just press it few times if the player want to play ''im the Big Boss, i own everything, so get lost!''
and do trouble to the others and report the noobcake that too stupid to understand there rules to respect on this game and must respect it.

No joke, but seriously, they really need to put hard hitters on east eir maps to balance this:
-There no challenge at all on these maps to start(first mistake the DNC did by sending the patch at Outspark)
-Aoers have it too easy now and pick all the mobs of the maps, because there no hard-hitters(what about the ranged class that want to solo these maps if they want to level up there because they feel comfortable on these maps to level up? no mob, can't aoe by themself because their def dosen't allow them to mob and feel rejected by some others that dosen't need them anymore on the pt, result:some quit and retired).
-low levels that have access on these maps too easily now(ouch!!! they want a plvl, fine! they come out of the sz and wait that the aoer come with the mob to overkill the begger or the player that want a plvl, after the player that want to be plvled report the aoer that have mob him because he want to be plvled. There aoers that hate a lot beggers and the players that want a plvl.(I already see that situation happen few times in the east eir maps and can tell, the result is ugly at the end).

What i see now is a serious priblem that keep going and one day, that will be a pain(already happen now).

Lv rushing to level 100+and above in less than 1 month=no challenge=no enjoyement of this game=get bored of the game= retired from the game for good.<-----I see that a lot 2 months ago happening in this game.

The post of Siriuschaos in part prove how he work hard to get this level and i say congratulations, but...

But those that rush on these maps, either:

-They receive too much complain about how there not good healers or whatever class u are now that use badly his class and dosen't know how to use some skill usefull on these maps.

or

-They are too lazy to level up on their own on maps that they should level up on the level they are currently.

So now if i find the post made by someone, here it is:

As for lvl limited maps, I must say I’m against this, at least on a broadscale, both because I wouldn’t be able to get to those hard maps I enjoy, and because I have friends over many different lvls I wouldn’t be able to party with. I would, however, favor lvl limited dungeons, with only a range of lvls, say 10 or so, allowed in.

I should say this, if the DNC has to come with this solution to solve this problem of rushing in the game too fast, they will do it even if the players don't want that. If they want to put level restriction on certain maps like any others game have on certain maps(they should have done that earlier), they will do it.

Bring Hard Hitters on the maps should be a good solution now. As for the players rushing in the game too much they should put lv restriction maps.

Oh, last thing! I don't want to see the comment like: I do what i want! I see that too much that comment now on this game and the problem can't be ignored anymore about these maps.

End of the rant, now i wait the replies...:p

Selenityhime

05-22-2009, 10:25 AM

And yes I think it’s a fair complaint, since aoeing by nature often requires the aoer to be working a map beneath his or her lvl. It’s kindof like the 6th graders taking over the 3th graders playground. Saying that they shouldn’t be there if they can’t handle the respawn is not a fair statement. Only an aoer with an insane amount of defense, on a board several lvls beneath him, could survive an onslaught of 6-10 aggro respawn by himself.

QUOTE]

I am not understanding what you are saying here. You say aoe often requires working a map beneath the aoer's level, but in this game monsters with white names are considerred level appropriate. Thanks to items such as defense cloaks, bells, horror masks, hockey masks, defense pets, ect. many people can now aoe mobs pink to bright red to them, although if their attack is not sufficient they may take forrever to kill the mob. Attempting to aoe mobs that are grey to blue, in other words of a level below the aoer is generally impossible as unless the mobs die from the first hit, they will usually run before they are half dead. It might be possible to use a binder to kill mobs but considerring the poor experience and drops, this would probably only be done if the purpose of the aoe was to get a special drop, say ssf, which even then would probably be more trouble than the poor drop rate would justify. Your also say that only an aoer with insane defense working a map well below his level could handle 6 to 8 respawn. Again, if you are on a map with mobs with white names, that map is your level. If your are mobbing the map, excluding suicide aoe minimobs, obviously you can handle 6 to 8 respawn. My confusion is why you think aoers are on maps below their level, I guess.

You got me there. :D I am someone who spends as much time as possible on maps with monsters who are well over blood red. But it doesn't change that there are too many aoers, and not enough maps for them.

tazsbigtoy

05-22-2009, 10:50 AM

You got me there. :D I am someone who spends as much time as possible on maps with monsters who are well over blood red. But it doesn't change that there are too many aoers, and not enough maps for them.

Oh, I won't disagree with you on that point. Was really just trying to understand your whole post.

Selenityhime

05-22-2009, 02:49 PM

Oh, I won't disagree with you on that point. Was really just trying to understand your whole post.

Sorry it was 3:00 in the morning. I really should ban myself from the forums between 1:00 and 5:00 am. I would be less confused that way. :p

yanane

05-22-2009, 02:59 PM

Side rant to past discussion: Oh and to the TALK ABOUT SZ AOEING BEING A CHEAT, you can shove it cause that seriously insults me. That was some true aoe skill at work and I don't care what anyone says just because I got ahead with it.

Ahem, shove it yourself... If you would have read more carefully :

So keeping the mob in sz while you are in combat zone is somewhat 'unfair' to the game's rules, since you can use your skill, but monsters cannot, it's like... cheating (please don't take that last word too seriously).

I should have SIZE/B/U/I first I think...
So no need to get on your high horse. For me sz killing will definitely be a hack/trick/cheat/skill (choose, add or invent any term that will suit you best).
There is a big difference between saying something is like, and something is. A cheat would be a third party program that would modify the game. Here I said it's like cheating against the game rules (or mechanics or whatever you would call it).
If you want me to picture this, it would be like both of us playing a game : who will get knocked out first. I will hit you once, then you will hit me and I will hit you again, and so on, so on... But I would use a baseball bat when you would only be allowed to use a chopstick... Who would be cheating in this case ?
Do you get my point now ?
And I'm absolutely not jealous at any point of any player that would be higher level than me, I don't see why I would be either :S. I for myself, have been using sz killing a couple times in my desperate search for gears in desert maps, and have been laughing at myself each time I used it, thinking 'omg that game is so full of bugs/misconception (whatever you want) !'.
You guys really need to cool it down a little bit, or decrease your testosterone rate... I know there's a lot of people in the game that need such hard words to be reasonned, but just because there's a handful of people like that, everyone isn't necessarily like that. From my general attitude so far, I have tried not to flame anybody because I don't want this post to be closed. I want the discussion to go on so that Outspark really feels like something needs to be done. And it did work actually, since a coucil meeting was scheduled concerning this matter. I am now waiting for changes.

That being said...

Many of you are complaining about people rushing to level. But when you think about it, isn't it the main purpose of the game ? Reaching higher level is the only key giving you access to new gears, skills, quests, dungeon, wings, pets... So it is quite understandable that people would rush to level up, be it by working hard their level or by asking for power leveling.
Asking for a level requirement to access new maps has so many bad points.
- Long range classes will not be able to access maps higher than their level, thus leveling would even be slower than how it is now. This would automatically lead to the creation of a thread where long range classes would complain about it.
- Aoers would even rush more to level, becoming even more greedy since they would not be able to reach maps where their def would allow them to aoe. There would be even more overcrowding. Respawns wouldn't be dangerous anymore since they would be automatically taken by the numerous aoers fighting on the map. And guess what long range classes would say about that...
- Playing in a party would become totally uninteresting. Imagine a party a 5 level 50 people that would only be allowed to play on a level 50 map. Where would be the fun ? Where would be the challenge ? Everyone would then play solo, you could basically remove the party system from the game since it would become rubbish.
- You would see people gathering at sz, begging for things like : 'I only need 3 levels to get to next map, can you plvl me please, I have boost, I will pay you 5 xen etc, etc...'. And you would see that at any sz where you would have a level requirement to access the next map.
Shortly said, people would be even more rushing to level up to get access to new maps.
In fact, putting a level requirement to maps, would actually backfire at those who asked for it.

And about your complaints on how people are getting level so easily now because of all the SC stuffs or new ingame items or pet buffs... I played the game for a month or two when it was still in open beta. If I remember there was no cloak (not sure, I think it was already there), cowbell, exp books and aid books, enhanced pets... It was around the time when one of the rare advanced pet owner was Ferria with her fairy, the pet quest guide wasn't even completed at the moment. My computer broke and then I came back a little more than six months ago and was astonished by the quantity of new stuffs that was brought in. It really did make the game better, funnier and more interesting than how it was when I first played it.
When you guys complain about how hard you worked to get your level, and how unfair people are leveling so fast now because of those new items, it almost feels like you guys are asking to the new players to level up the way you guys did back then... Who do you think would do that ? Nobody, as even you would expect.
Even now, people are making suggestions on new stuffs to ease the gameplay or make it funnier. And some of you currently complaining might have been among the ones asking for such items when they didn't exist. More and more stuffs will come out, to make characters even stronger, to make leveling even faster and easier. And even you veteran players are using these new SC items, or ingame enhanced pets or mounts... so why couldn't new players use them too ?

I played with a lot of players that did not know how to use their chars, most of them being obviously plvled players... but I never flamed them or treated them of plvled noobs... On the contrary, If I felt like they were trying their best, I gave them advice on how they should use their chars, how they should move when I'm aoeing, how they should use their skills at the right time. But it's true that some just want to level up their char, and don't even care about knowing how to play it, I just kick those out of my party... And it's true that they should have gotten their skills through training and not plvling... It was their error for getting plvled, but you can be a little forgiving too, if they recognize it and are now willing to try their best ? It's never too late to catch up and get the knowledge you're lacking. It's not because they don't play their character efficiently that it means they will never be able to learn. Also, don't forget that you are sometime dealing with younger teens... I would not like to have some of you working in a kindergarten...
And when I think about it, aren't high leveled players those that invented power leveling first ? Like from lazyness of leveling a farmer char ? Or leveling another high level friend's alt char ? Younger ones always learn things from their elders...

BellaAnimorum

05-22-2009, 03:32 PM

You guys really need to cool it down a little bit, or decrease your testosterone rate... I know there's a lot of people in the game that need such hard words to be reasonned, but just because there's a handful of people like that, everyone isn't necessarily like that. From my general attitude so far, I have tried not to flame anybody because I don't want this post to be closed. I want the discussion to go on so that Outspark really feels like something needs to be done. And it did work actually, since a coucil meeting was scheduled concerning this matter. I am now waiting for changes.

That being said...

Many of you are complaining about people rushing to level. But when you think about it, isn't it the main purpose of the game ? Reaching higher level is the only key giving you access to new gears, skills, quests, dungeon, wings, pets... So it is quite understandable that people would rush to level up, be it by working hard their level or by asking for power leveling.
Asking for a level requirement to access new maps has so many bad points.
- Long range classes will not be able to access maps higher than their level, thus leveling would even be slower than how it is now. This would automatically lead to the creation of a thread where long range classes would complain about it.
- Aoers would even rush more to level, becoming even more greedy since they would not be able to reach maps where their def would allow them to aoe. There would be even more overcrowding. Respawns wouldn't be dangerous anymore since they would be automatically taken by the numerous aoers fighting on the map. And guess what long range classes would say about that...
- Playing in a party would become totally uninteresting. Imagine a party a 5 level 50 people that would only be allowed to play on a level 50 map. Where would be the fun ? Where would be the challenge ? Everyone would then play solo, you could basically remove the party system from the game since it would become rubbish.
- You would see people gathering at sz, begging for things like : 'I only need 3 levels to get to next map, can you plvl me please, I have boost, I will pay you 5 xen etc, etc...'. And you would see that at any sz where you would have a level requirement to access the next map.
Shortly said, people would be even more rushing to level up to get access to new maps.
In fact, putting a level requirement to maps, would actually backfire at those who asked for it.

And about your complaints on how people are getting level so easily now because of all the SC stuffs or new ingame items or pet buffs... I played the game for a month or two when it was still in open beta. If I remember there was no cloak (not sure, I think it was already there), cowbell, exp books and aid books, enhanced pets... It was around the time when one of the rare advanced pet owner was Ferria with her fairy, the pet quest guide wasn't even completed at the moment. My computer broke and then I came back a little more than six months ago and was astonished by the quantity of new stuffs that was brought in. It really did make the game better, funnier and more interesting than how it was when I first played it.
When you guys complain about how hard you worked to get your level, and how unfair people are leveling so fast now because of those new items, it almost feels like you guys are asking to the new players to level up the way you guys did back then... Who do you think would do that ? Nobody, as even you would expect.
Even now, people are making suggestions on new stuffs to ease the gameplay or make it funnier. And some of you currently complaining might have been among the ones asking for such items when they didn't exist. More and more stuffs will come out, to make characters even stronger, to make leveling even faster and easier. And even you veteran players are using these new SC items, or ingame enhanced pets or mounts... so why couldn't new players use them too ?

I played with a lot of players that did not know how to use their chars, most of them being obviously plvled players... but I never flamed them or treated them of plvled noobs... On the contrary, If I felt like they were trying their best, I gave them advice on how they should use their chars, how they should move when I'm aoeing, how they should use their skills at the right time. But it's true that some just want to level up their char, and don't even care about knowing how to play it, I just kick those out of my party... And it's true that they should have gotten their skills through training and not plvling... It was their error for getting plvled, but you can be a little forgiving too, if they recognize it and are now willing to try their best ? It's never too late to catch up and get the knowledge you're lacking. It's not because they don't play their character efficiently that it means they will never be able to learn. Also, don't forget that you are sometime dealing with younger teens... I would not like to have some of you working in a kindergarten...
And when I think about it, aren't high leveled players those that invented power leveling first ? Like from lazyness of leveling a farmer char ? Or leveling another high level friend's alt char ? Younger ones always learn things from their elders...

It's great you have such strong convictions, but this is off topic. The analogies are ok, but they are besides the point. Those of us (including you, since you say you played from the early days of Open Beta) who have been around DID in fact set the standard of "power levelling" but in no way can we be blamed for it. It was simply a matter of course, since there was a serious (if ever a game could truly be felt that way) desire to be recognized as being the top of your class. Call it detatchment from reality, call it irresponsible behaviour, whatever, but the point is we put forth that kind of tenacity and grinded until our eyes hurt, and sometimes until people fell asleep from exhaustion! The only difference now from then is the available maps, and how much effort getting to XX level required. Being "power levelled" has a completely different meaning than "power levelling", and it's those players who want nothing but the former rather than work towards the latter that many of us hard workers DO NOT LIKE.
It doesn't make them bad players, nor should it give them a label; however, when these lazy players make it a point to try and beg us hard workers constantly to allow them to take a piece of our pie, or when they finally reach a point where they can finally AoE in maps they shouldn't have gotten to in the first place and turn around and tell other players that it's "their" map... well, you can understand how that would make 'us veteran' players feel, right?

All that aside, since it's irrelevant to this thread, we have gotten nowhere in our discussing. Some people feel that nothing should be done, some people think that nothing can be done, others believe that something ought to be done, and WAY TOO MANY HAVE REMAINED QUIET for this to be a serious issue.

DJ, if you still check this thread, perhaps you could set up some sort of Poll, listing several options in the matter. Then, and really only then, can change occur, because honestly, this entire discussion is going to be all for naught without some indication that people actually care about the issue.

CyberPhoenixSlayer

05-22-2009, 04:28 PM

It's great you have such strong convictions, but this is off topic. The analogies are ok, but they are besides the point. Those of us (including you, since you say you played from the early days of Open Beta) who have been around DID in fact set the standard of "power levelling" but in no way can we be blamed for it. It was simply a matter of course, since there was a serious (if ever a game could truly be felt that way) desire to be recognized as being the top of your class. Call it detatchment from reality, call it irresponsible behaviour, whatever, but the point is we put forth that kind of tenacity and grinded until our eyes hurt, and sometimes until people fell asleep from exhaustion! The only difference now from then is the available maps, and how much effort getting to XX level required. Being "power levelled" has a completely different meaning than "power levelling", and it's those players who want nothing but the former rather than work towards the latter that many of us hard workers DO NOT LIKE.
It doesn't make them bad players, nor should it give them a label; however, when these lazy players make it a point to try and beg us hard workers constantly to allow them to take a piece of our pie, or when they finally reach a point where they can finally AoE in maps they shouldn't have gotten to in the first place and turn around and tell other players that it's "their" map... well, you can understand how that would make 'us veteran' players feel, right?

All that aside, since it's irrelevant to this thread, we have gotten nowhere in our discussing. Some people feel that nothing should be done, some people think that nothing can be done, others believe that something ought to be done, and WAY TOO MANY HAVE REMAINED QUIET for this to be a serious issue.

DJ, if you still check this thread, perhaps you could set up some sort of Poll, listing several options in the matter. Then, and really only then, can change occur, because honestly, this entire discussion is going to be all for naught without some indication that people actually care about the issue.

Already made one, check to this thread if you want to voice your opinion about it, and this will be a two poll choices only, not 4 or 5.

http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2344043#post2344043

D-Styles

05-22-2009, 08:35 PM

DJ, if you still check this thread, perhaps you could set up some sort of Poll, listing several options in the matter. Then, and really only then, can change occur, because honestly, this entire discussion is going to be all for naught without some indication that people actually care about the issue.

yes i do read this thread everyday to see what you guys are posting. But there are so many arguments that replying to everyone who's post i find debatable are too much. So ill just respond to yours for now Mr. Varny lol, its been awhile btw.

anyway, after reading, i see many options that can be possible solutions, so much in fact that i doubt a poll can fit them all (which will force me to put an "other" choice on the poll forcing someone to post the reason anyway.)

But in one of your earlier posts. I Agree, the only real definite solution will be to take out players to fix the congestion. But that wont happen right? We want the community to thrive and welcome many new people. So... i turn to the next best solution in my opinion :P, and that is game balance by spreading the players around the maps that we DO have. Lets face it, its been that way since we started playing right Varn? Using the maps what we have even if we always did get lower exp, but people aren't doing that anymore and are spoiled with the high defense stuff and red mob exp. So this is when i suggest the addition of Hard Hitters, the same formula used for many early maps. there are many good maps that i see occupied half the time for some Mobbers. If i could, i would move down to those maps except it doesn't fit me for exp, so people more suited to it should grind in those maps right? It's like having many highways but people using a few of them.
Anyway this is the best solution imo that wont have too many negative consequences because what i'm asking for already exists in the game, it wont be sucha drastic change if you ask me.

btw stay on topic Foos!

BellaAnimorum

05-22-2009, 11:38 PM

yes i do read this thread everyday to see what you guys are posting. But there are so many arguments that replying to everyone who's post i find debatable are too much. So ill just respond to yours for now Mr. Varny lol, its been awhile btw.

anyway, after reading, i see many options that can be possible solutions, so much in fact that i doubt a poll can fit them all (which will force me to put an "other" choice on the poll forcing someone to post the reason anyway.)

But in one of your earlier posts. I Agree, the only real definite solution will be to take out players to fix the congestion. But that wont happen right? We want the community to thrive and welcome many new people. So... i turn to the next best solution in my opinion :P, and that is game balance by spreading the players around the maps that we DO have. Lets face it, its been that way since we started playing right Varn? Using the maps what we have even if we always did get lower exp, but people aren't doing that anymore and are spoiled with the high defense stuff and red mob exp. So this is when i suggest the addition of Hard Hitters, the same formula used for many early maps. there are many good maps that i see occupied half the time for some Mobbers. If i could, i would move down to those maps except it doesn't fit me for exp, so people more suited to it should grind in those maps right? It's like having many highways but people using a few of them.
Anyway this is the best solution imo that wont have too many negative consequences because what i'm asking for already exists in the game, it wont be sucha drastic change if you ask me.

btw stay on topic Foos!

OFF TOPIC: Yeah, been a good minute since we used to grind it up, and thinking back to when AoE first showed up with the 2nd classes being released, we were in awe of Haruko and Enix tearing all of the Rudwork mobs up in less than thirty seconds... I can't believe we didn't all foresee these problems arising even then! Of course, our player base was just maybe crossing the 500 mark. And we were all kinda spoiled since the CS came out -_-" well at least those of us who were able to pay, not to mention all the boost weekends and random spawns.. things have changed so it isn't really all that surprising to notice that the players have changed as well as their playing styles.

ON TOPIC: Kats had a great idea she told me, that there should be maps (either existing ones, or perhaps soon-to-be) where the monsters ALL hit hard, in other words, not possible to truly AoE, as a means to re-create the grind party, and give Rangers a means to remember they are long ranged powerhouses for a reason. And by HARD, she was saying they should hit Warlords for like 100+, and while that may be very scary to some, adept players would recognize the beauty in the challenge of survival, plus it would give a whole new meaning to "suicide AoE" because when you AoE, you hit a wide range, which might attract even more mobs, causing extremely higher damage and thus, death. The way she explained it was better, but that's the gist of it. Also they would (or rather should) give great experience because they are so dang tough (0.05 per kill? 0.15?!? o_O)

^.^

yanane

05-23-2009, 04:56 AM

CyberPhoenixSlayer

05-23-2009, 06:01 AM

Did the general discussion really go off topic ?
Bringing hard hitter to east Eir maps is not a problem, it's rather one of the many possible solutions to the real problem which is overcrowding of these maps.
Overcrowding in the east Eir maps truly is the problem that started this thread, and bringing hard hitters to east Eir maps was the solution initially proposed by DJ the original poster. Then people brought in other solutions such as balancing maps, lvl restrictions on maps, all HH maps...
I think if a poll shall be made, its title should rather be : What could the best solutions to resolve the overcrowding of east Eir maps ? The poll made by CyberPhoenix will not give satisfaction in my opinion as it only discuss about one solution.

Off topic
I did play in open beta, but only for a month or two and I wasn't as addicted to the game as now :D. I didn't go far, my char was only around lvl 45 when my graphic card bugged so I don't have any idea on how hard leveling was at higher levels :o.

I know this is quite a simple poll, but actually if u check the answer, we got a pretty good start. Keep going with the poll guys. Also if u check the title of this thread of the OP he talking about bring the hard hitters on East eir map. That why i bring only one subject on this poll not 5 or 6, we can do a poll apart of the one i did about the problem about overcrownding maps, but sticking to the main problem would be the best for now.