Mages and Rogues need a serious nerf.

[realwords]

Hello, my name's Kevin. I'm the brother of the person who all come to know as Georgie (Bryan). Him being home for spring break, I see him playing a game called Windslayer, on his Rogue. It looks pretty fun and addictive so I sign up and give it a whirl. I'm caught on the game instantaneously, deciding to make a Warrior, which I do. I'm happy due to the fact that a game is so simple yet fun, and brings me to the point where I actually buy SparkCash to pimp out my warrior once I start. Hoorah! I'm finally a Warrior! I'm pleased by my substantial HP/MP boost, my handy elemental skills, and my trusty shield which off-puts some strong damage.

I enter my first job advancement PvP room, stay there for a couple hours, and get used to battling other classes, for some reason, there were monks, archers, and other warriors. No Rogues or Mages for some reason.

Out of my curiosity, I decide to find a diverse room with skilled people of all classes.

First encountering a Rogue, I see him hide... "hah", I say to myself, "he'll be no match for me, I see Bryan do this all the time. All I need to do to reveal him is slash everywhere and hope he's hit"... not only don't I see his footsteps hit the ground, but I notice that once he blocks before he hits the ground, footsteps DON'T appear. This is the first step in me stating that Rogues need some sort of change. He hides again after leading me in a cat-in-mouse chase, I run in a direction, slashing... but I get stunned from behind... BAH! Why is this stun lasting so LONG? I imagine if a Mage was right behind me to hit me again with his 350+ damage freeze and melt (fire) combo for another 500+ damage... Nice hit, my friend. I see him start hitting me with his weak attacks... no big deal. Then I see him top off the combo with a poison skill. Another no big deal, it should wear off soon and I should still have general health. Again was I wrong, his poison wears me down all the way to red.

He does the same combo after running again.

I am dead this time.

General Breakdown:

Nor does it make no sense to see a Poison skill wear down a 2STR:2SPR Warrior down to extremely low health by itself, but to see a stun skill last long enough for a Rogue to re-use hide and re-use it again is both unfair and imbalanced.

Suggestions:
Decrease the Hide Duration
Decrease stun duration by 1-2 seconds.
Decrease Poison damage to that of the Sniper's Poison skill (16 damage ticks for the same duration of Rogue Poison instead of 24 damage)
Increase duration between end of stun and end of hide, and make the hide cooldown start after the Rogue is un-hidden, not while the Rogue is hidden.

Furious by this crazy and unskilled combo that ticks me for insane damage, I leave this room and find one with little to no Rogues. I find one.

I encounter a mage, who meets me up top.

I hit him with a Freeze Spike and he is frozen, I lick my lips, he is my fresh meat, my combo-starter, my extra WSP points.

I'm wrong again.

He runs down the bridge, me not knowing that he will cast a Fireball spell that hits me for 350 damage. Me being caught off guard, I attempt to run back... but no, I am hit with a Ice Bolt that freezes me in place.

Okay, I think to myself... it's time for me to get back in the game, knock him back, and freeze combo...

I'm wrong again, he sets up a Stone Guard that brings me to my knees after the severe 1000+ damage plus the damage I took before, going from a healthy yellow... to a critical red... to death.

General Breakdown:
A Mage's severe damage does not suit them, they are not much squishier than other Ranged DPS classes like the Archer and Priest... yet their damage has the ability to take out classes with mid health dragged down to red.

Suggestions:
Decrease damage and increase cooldown time on Firebolt and Ice Bolt, if that doesn't suit, feel free to tweak it.

Extra Note: Trying to block most skills off-puts 3-4 damage. Fireball regularly hits me for 349 damage, blocking it does 346... what's up with that?


THIS THREAD IS MY OPINION, FEEL FREE TO DISCUSS and flame me (I really like to hear suggestions). Rogues and Mages, it's time to step your game up and let's discuss this like the mature people we are.

[isamusx]

I'm sorry, but these claims are invalid. Warriors are much easier to control physically then mages and rogues. Rogues specialize in hiding and taking down their prey with poison. Mages should be expected to be powerful because of their severe lack of strength and stamina. No class on Windslayer is overpowers or unbalanced... they are just different. The makers of the game are assured that the classes fit. You can't blame a lack of skill on the "cheapness" of another class. Everyone has their opinion on their least favorite classes in PvP, and the most you can really say about any class is that they are "annoying". Don't try to get a class nerfed because they beat you. It doesn't sound like you've been playing for very long, so work on your skills and you will be able to beat a mage or rogue. Nerfing calsses isn't the answer, because who says warriors shouldn't be nerfed. It's a difficult topic to talk about without getting flamed...

[Zenco]

i really dont like rouges stun attack, -.- insivable and stun combo is pretty cheap ya it makes it hard, archers that dont really jump around alot i dont have trouble with but rouges and there cheap tatics what makes things hard

[realwords]

I'm sorry, but these claims are invalid. Warriors are much easier to control physically then mages and rogues. Rogues specialize in hiding and taking down their prey with poison. Mages should be expected to be powerful because of their severe lack of strength and stamina. No class on Windslayer is overpowers or unbalanced... they are just different. The makers of the game are assured that the classes fit. You can't blame a lack of skill on the "cheapness" of another class. Everyone has their opinion on their least favorite classes in PvP, and the most you can really say about any class is that they are "annoying". Don't try to get a class nerfed because they beat you. It doesn't sound like you've been playing for very long, so work on your skills and you will be able to beat a mage or rogue. Nerfing calsses isn't the answer, because who says warriors shouldn't be nerfed. It's a difficult topic to talk about without getting flamed...

First, your first claim. If you're saying physical reasons as in the fact that I have more HP, or run speed... whatever... it doesn't seem that matters in the game.

Rogues specialize in hiding and taking them down with poison, but there's an extent to where that gets simply... wild and unethical. Getting stunned by a Rogue is almost a 50% HP warrant these days. This isn't the first time I'vep layed, I also gave the GnG version and got to 20 as a Warrior.

Never did I state the "cheapness" of a class, I've come from a deep MMO background, starting from EQ, EQ2, WoW, AoC, ALMOST every F2P MMO out there, etc.

The diversity of classes does not change the fact that a class has unfair damage output, and little does their HP matter if they're standing on the back of a bridge pouring out two skills that do 500 damage a pop with little cooldown time or casting time when at a certain range.

It's not just my opinion, I'm sure many other players would agree on the unfairness of these two classes. I understand, it's a relatively new game, a young one at that, there is still time to make changes.

My brother Bryan has been playing for a looong time, written many guides, and has tried to be a keynote member of the community and he will agree that even on his Rogue, and playing other players on his 52 Counter that their damage output is just too high.

"Nerfing calsses isn't the answer, because who says warriors shouldn't be nerfed. It's a difficult topic to talk about without getting flamed.."

Making changes to a game is a OUTSTANDING reason to whether members stay or not. If Warriors should be nerfed, they should explain it in the same manner as me, and see if the developers will address what should be changed or not. There's a difference between flaming and discussing the topic in a mature way, whether a user wants to bash absentmindedly or as I stated before, act mature... we'll see who's ready to address those two manners.

[doki_]

Suggestions:
Decrease the Hide Duration
Decrease stun duration by 1-2 seconds.
Decrease Poison damage to that of the Sniper's Poison skill (16 damage ticks for the same duration of Rogue Poison instead of 24 damage)
Increase duration between end of stun and end of hide, and make the hide cooldown start after the Rogue is un-hidden, not while the Rogue is hidden.


No point of decreasing Hide,Stun due to it all being related to STD .
Go look at your stats in STD and everyone HAS THE SAME STATS.

Decrease Rogue's poison as Sniper's? . . Ew ?
If they decrease Rogue's Poison EVERYONE's Poison would need to be decreased as well.
It would make more sense to decrease everyone's poison,too.Since Rogues use that as ONE of THEIR BASIC ROGUE'S ATTACK. NOT TRAPPER OR ASSASSIN attacks.

Increase Hide+Stun ? Then what do Rogues do ?
Just simply become a weak imitation "Warrior" with our daggers . . Whats the use of "Rogue" title if Rogue gonna fight like "Warriors" now . . . What a disgusting image to picture of myself fighting with a dagger
Then we'll. . Run ? Block ? Run and wait for their cooldown to finish and repeat ?
Any other things to do ? Oh,yeah!We can just chat or better yet become DeathStone !



My brother Bryan has been playing for a looong time, written many guides, and has tried to be a keynote member of the community and he will agree that even on his Rogue, and playing other players on his 52 Counter that their damage output is just too high.


Written Guide . . ? Nothing here is written BY someone unless they took it from the Original GnG or Wikia .
Only ones who I've seen "Written" something is Battleon and Nameless .
Thats it.Nothing more or less . If there is anymone else out there that didn't use Original GnG or Wikia's Help and iDidn't list you.Could have been that iHaven't come across it at the moment.

[ameyzing]

Actually speed and agility matters in the game .
First of all each class is made with a weaknesses and strengths.
One must know this before anything if one wants to actually win in pvp.
If one just stands around in the field thinking that their attacks will magically hit an opponent then they have seriously miscalculated. One must learn how to cover one's weaknesses and increase their strengths as well. If you just stood there hitting air and not moving hoping that you will eventually hit someone then that is just poor pvp playing. I've seen only a few good warriors as they are the only ones intelligent enough to find how to efficiently use warriors high hp and strong melee attacks.
Im basically saying that this game is not a normal mindless slash and kill game one must learn to use strategies. If a rogue were to go head on with a mage and the rogue makes a small mistake in his combo this could become a lethal flaw thus timing is important. We could say the same for mages as they need to time their attacks perfectly as well or it could easily be countered.
In the end the game is basically a matter of strategy.

[deoxys114]

As you get more used to the game, Rogues become easier to handle. All classes can do the guard before landing trick to not make dust, but hey that's only needed for Rogues. But here is the catch. Just because you can't see them, or see the dust they make when they land, there are two key things to think about. 1. When they jump, they do make dust. 2. You can still hear them. When I'm faced with rogues, I sit in the corner and just listen. If you listen close enough, you can hear them coming closer, and then BAM! Hit them. One person said I must be psychic because I seemed to always know where he was.

But what I would to change about the Rogue class is that the Stun cooldown should be longer. That is the only thing I see wrong. Everything else should stay. Including the damage.

For Mages, you say that with a single hit of fire we do 500+ damage. That is not correct. Fire only does at most 400 damage. And get this. A Rogue's stun cooldown and it's poison cooldown combined are still shorter than a Mage's fire cooldown. So our fire shouldn't have a longer cooldown. In every MMO I've played, and have seen played, Mages are meant to be as ppl call it "Glass Cannons." Yes we hit quite hard, but if we are caught off guard...heheh, well...we pretty much screwed. Our attack speed for the skills are also the slowest in the game. You think that Mages can just easily hit you with any attack they have. But listen to this. In your example, you said nothing about you jumping. A target that doesn't jump is like heaven to a Mage in PvP. It's amazingly easy to hit. But when they do jump, we Mages need to make sure we time everything PERFECTLY. If anything is wrong with our combos, it could be the death of us.

There shouldn't be anything changed about Mages. They are completely balanced.

You should try PvPing a bit more so you can get the hang of the game. Because all of the things you listed could be easily countered. Learn the skills. Learn the ways to counter the skills. After that, you should be awesome at PvP.

Gl, and happy lvling and PvPing. ^^

[doki_]

Actually speed and agility matters in the game .
First of all each class is made with a weaknesses and strengths.
One must know this before anything if one wants to actually win in pvp.
If one just stands around in the field thinking that their attacks will magically hit an opponent then they have seriously miscalculated. One must learn how to cover one's weaknesses and increase their strengths as well. If you just stood there hitting air and not moving hoping that you will eventually hit someone then that is just poor pvp playing. I've seen only a few good warriors as they are the only ones intelligent enough to find how to efficiently use warriors high hp and strong melee attacks.
Im basically saying that this game is not a normal mindless slash and kill game one must learn to use strategies. If a rogue were to go head on with a mage and the rogue makes a small mistake in his combo this could become a lethal flaw thus timing is important. We could say the same for mages as they need to time their attacks perfectly as well or it could easily be countered.
In the end the game is basically a matter of strategy.
Lets not forget 'bout LAG.
Lag may sometimes support you or be your worst rival . . .

[realwords]

As you get more used to the game, Rogues become easier to handle. All classes can do the guard before landing trick to not make dust, but hey that's only needed for Rogues. But here is the catch. Just because you can't see them, or see the dust they make when they land, there are two key things to think about. 1. When they jump, they do make dust. 2. You can still hear them. When I'm faced with rogues, I sit in the corner and just listen. If you listen close enough, you can hear them coming closer, and then BAM! Hit them. One person said I must be psychic because I seemed to always know where he was.

But what I would to change about the Rogue class is that the Stun cooldown should be longer. That is the only thing I see wrong. Everything else should stay. Including the damage.

For Mages, you say that with a single hit of fire we do 500+ damage. That is not correct. Fire only does at most 400 damage. And get this. A Rogue's stun cooldown and it's poison cooldown combined are still shorter than a Mage's fire cooldown. So our fire shouldn't have a longer cooldown. In every MMO I've played, and have seen played, Mages are meant to be as ppl call it "Glass Cannons." Yes we hit quite hard, but if we are caught off guard...heheh, well...we pretty much screwed. Our attack speed for the skills are also the slowest in the game. You think that Mages can just easily hit you with any attack they have. But listen to this. In your example, you said nothing about you jumping. A target that doesn't jump is like heaven to a Mage in PvP. It's amazingly easy to hit. But when they do jump, we Mages need to make sure we time everything PERFECTLY. If anything is wrong with our combos, it could be the death of us.

There shouldn't be anything changed about Mages. They are completely balanced.

You should try PvPing a bit more so you can get the hang of the game. Because all of the things you listed could be easily countered. Learn the skills. Learn the ways to counter the skills. After that, you should be awesome at PvP.

Gl, and happy lvling and PvPing. ^^

It's not a matter of experience or not, although I'm glad you agree with me on Rogues. It's just that fact that ONE wrong move against any of these classes is bound to get 50% of your HP gone. The Trapper combo... Stun, hit hit, trap, puppet.... wait for other players to get CRAZY amounts of damage up... stun, hit, hit, timebomb or poison... that's just not kosher.

I would expect that a Warrior would be pretty explosive up close, being able to get in some sort of... Battle Cry Stun? A Damage over time? SOMETHING. No wonder so many people don't choose Warrior, they're not even half-decent in PvP.

Monks at least have taunt, weakness detection... not to mention Rogue's array of up close and personal debuffs.

Again, as I stated before, Warriors have little to no good skills for PvP. One good Wind Slash in, 88 damage. One good fire kick? 170+ damage. Berzerker skills can end up hurting the user more than enemies. Paladins are just aurora-whores...

Mages have the the ability to stand behind teammates and put out insane damage, admit it, 350+ damage on Fireball is enough to kill someone with low HP by itself.

[BloodLimit]

Remember that in the end, it doesn't depend on what you can do on STD (Standard) PVP. Everyone is equal to one and other and as a Rogue I've fought with many good Warriors who knew how to play the class to its full potential.

True, a Rogue can kill you with only about three to four stuns but to be able to land these stuns it doesn't depend on the user (Rogue) it depends on the other players flaws in other words their movements. Rogue is fully dependable on their timing directed to their foes movements and if they're target is not completely predictable then the Rogue is stuck watching you till you make a mistake.

Damage wise, you shouldn't judge it from a STD match, but on an Unlimited fight. On a STD match a Priest is able to spam weak attacks and drain your HP to 0 without using their spells. A Priest/Wizard is also able to use a sword and duel you as a warrior. Therefore once you see the difference on a Unlimited match you can see that your HP boost as a warrior will give you the upper hand to the other class. A good warrior build could solo around classes such as Priest, Wizard, Archers, Monks and with a little effort even Rogues. Another thing that you need to keep on mind is that no class is the "best" every class got its pros and cons to the other classes out there. So in the end it doesn't depend on the class-skills but how you can use them.

P.S. If you encounter a rogue who constantly use the Hide skill, that rogue clearly doesn't have any PVP skill. Which i do agree that the skill Hide should be nerfed somehow cause I understand that many rogues abuse this skill to land cheap shots.

[caducus]

YOur HP and stats doesn't matter in STD mode. All players have equal stats and near equal hp and defence(with minor changes).

I would like to see the hide skill changed(in both PvE and all types of PvP) so the CD starts after they unhide from using it.

THought for just STD mode only, the mage's damage is over the top. ALl other damage dealing classes can only hit for about 150 max(with rogues only doing about 60 max with out poison). Mages can range from 250 normal to 500. In STD mode only thier attacks should do around 150 normal to 250 max. Yes, it is still more damage then the other classes but it won't take out a 5th to a 3rd of your life.