3:2 int:sp ??

[LennaCakes]

what the heck does that mean? major noob here xD i dont get that whole ratio thing or whatever, anyone care to explain it to me? cause everyone makes it seem like they get 5 skill points, but i only get 1? o_O

[Ducksoon]

rofl for every 3 int you put 2 spr

[Doncer]

What Ducksoon means put in a more polite and easier to understand way, is that as you lvl you will always only gain the 1 pt except when you arrive at a bonus lvl. When that time comes if you're doing a 3:2 build you keep track of how many of each type you've put in and try to keep it roughly at a 3:2 advantage of one stat over the other.

BTW I personally highly disagree with mages having a 3:2 INT:SPR build or ANY build for that matter that includes SPR. (Currently at least) tier 1 skills for mages do more dmg thanks to the cooldown issue than higher tier versions of the skills. As a result you should never run out of mana until ages have past even without adding any points to SPR. Dmg tests and calculations have been done and even out to 100th lvl the SPR builds will always fall behind the full INT build. The only possible reasons for adding SPR as a mage is if you want to regen your mana in house mode faster and/or if you want to regain more sp back while using sp stones.

[Liala]

Adding Spr isn't just to increase SP. It also increases criticals which you will love more and more the higher your lvl gets, as well as magic def.

I am doing a 25 spr (5% Critical) and rest Int build, and it is working beautifully.

[Doncer]

If you really believe that, Liala, you don't have a clue about the SPR build versus a non-SPR build final result.

Even just doing 25 SPR and not going further since SPR bottoms out at that point and gives less, you're still in worse shape than if you went pure attack stat until much later in the game.

Critical hits do 2x the dmg as regular hits. A 5% crit chance increase means that out of 100 attacks 5 will have 2x the dmg you would've otherwise gotten. So that means 95 times you will get normal non-plussed dmg, and 5 times you will get 2x non-plussed dmg. For those same 25 points you will gain 30 dmg every single hit. 30x100= 3,000 total extra dmg. In order for the 25 put into SPR to be better it would have to do 3,000 dmg beyond normal hits in just 5 attacks or an extra 600 dmg every single attack that critted of those 5 times.

Wake me up when you find someone that can deal 600 dmg at lvl 25 with every single attack they use which is what you would need for the crits double dmg to make up the difference lost by not starting out full int. Of course 'eventually' a character can do that much dmg with their attacks every cast which makes people starting out full int and later adding some spr for kicks a decent idea. But during the early lvls anyone that adds spr instead of INT as a mage is just being naive.

PS: And it gets even worse for the SPR builders after you make that stat +25 since from then on you only get back half the crit % which means for every bit of SPR instead of INT you put on after +25 the higher your normal non-crit dmg has to be in order to make up for the lost INT dmg.

Let's say some poor fool +75 their SPR setting. This would make their crit % be 10% which means 10/100th of the time they would do 2x dmg. Meanwhile the pure int build would gain 80 dmg every hit. 80x100 = 8,000 dmg needed to be made up in 10 crits or in other words the pure spr would have to be able to do 800 dmg every single cast to make the extra crits dmg just equal to the same amount of dmg the pure INT gained.

Now if the skills weren't bugged in regards to cooldown times a player of that level would have no problem doing that at the cost of high amounts of mana being used up. Unfortunately they ARE bugged and so a lvl 1 magic missle is what you will be using most often as your spell so THAT is the spell dmg you need to calculate out that needs 800 dmg before the crit build becomes feasible.

[Soul.of.Trance]

what the heck does that mean? major noob here xD i dont get that whole ratio thing or whatever, anyone care to explain it to me? cause everyone makes it seem like they get 5 skill points, but i only get 1? o_O

That would mean "3 for every 2 respectively" or in other words, in your case, for ever 3 int points, add 2 SPR points.

[Soul.of.Trance]

Oh and by he way, that pure spr, character wouldn't be a poor fool, He'd a be a mage Matk Tank.

[Liala]

I'm pretty sure it has already been mathematically proven in several threads that a 25 Spr rest in Int, is the most powerful build for mages in the long run.

But apparently, you are much wiser then me in this, as you are atleast 20 levels lower.

I would like to see how you feel with your pure Int build, once you get to Uruga and are having to kill red monsters with lvl 1 spells.

or

How much silver you have to spend on SP stones while doing some heavy duty grinding.

In lower lvls Int is more important. But once you get higher, to the point were you are fighting red monsters most of the time, you will fully begin to appreciate Spr. I agree, a full Spr build doesn't seem much good, that is why I advise only 25 Spr.

[Doncer]

-_- I am not basing the INT/SPR debate entirely off my low lvl toss-off mages that I built just for farming. I have taken the time to ASK people around me what their builds were and what their damages were. I have taken the time to bother to do the math which 90% of the people in this game are too thoughtless to actually do.

In the LONG run as in after lvl 50 at the earliest (I haven't botherred to check what the stick dmg is for the lvl 50 mage but I doubt it'll be enough.. probably lvl 60 at earliest to be truthful) SPR will 'start' to be 'slightly' beneficial. But every single lvl until you have high enough dmg stick IS NOT USEFUL to have ANY spr added in when it comes to dmg. You actually wind up doing less dmg until such time as your tier 1 magic missile can do at least 600 dmg on monsters you train against. So, yes, sooner or later a mage would probably want to add in a little SPR. But telling people to do it from the start is at best naive and at worst stupid.

Until such time as you can do 600 dmg or more on every single cast (and thus 1200 on criticals) 25 spr or less free stat is LOSING dmg to the int build. Until such time as you can do 800 dmg or more on every single cast (and thus 1600 on criticals) the 75+ spr is LOSING dmg to the int build.

And Trance? You really have no clue of dmg rates if you think that.

The ONLY way that SPR build would finally do what people THINKS it does is if they fixed the cooldown on higher tier spells to make them cost effective in dps over the tier 1's. The tier 1s simply do not do enough dmg per cast to overpower the lost magic attack from extra crit rate.

Do the math people or if you can't be bothered go read my post again where I've crunched the numbers down for you.

[Liala]

If you only use you mages to farm, like you say, then why are you pretending to know what your talking about?
You bothered to ask people..
I've bothered to actually lvl up my mage, I have 2 others I experiment with, and I've researched the builds.

You've apparently made this some sort of crusade so there is really no reason to argue with you as you won't change your opinion, but your rude attitude has provoked me to respond anyways.

Hopefully new players will ignore you, as so they don't ruin their characters.

It's cute that you actually think you will be doing 600 dmg, you'll be in for a big surpise then when your fighting reds with damage drops and doing a minisule 100-200 damage. You'll be praying for crits.

I never recommended that anyone add 25 spr first, just that adding 25 spr is a good investment.

Here's some numbers for you.

Me VS a Full INT Mage
---------------------
At lvl 40
(I'm not lvl 45 yet and want to play with even numbers)

you will (on paper) do:
573-688 Magic Damage Base which is an average of 630.5

If your a full INT Build (+45 INT),
You can add 54 damage to that.. 54 + the average = 684.5

If you're me, you will have + 25 INT
so I add 30 damage to that... 30 + the average = 660.5

Now lets add the Crits....

If the Full INT mage is a Wand user...
they will have +3% Crit from their Wand
they have 0 Spr. so no bonus from that.

A 3% chance of double 684.5 averages out at an extra 41.07 damage every hit. The result being that the average damage per hit for a full INT mage is 725.47.

Now me.
at lvl 40.. +25 INT +20 SPR (25 at lvl 45) I am a Wand User.
I have +3 Crit from my Wand.
I have +4 Crit from 20 SPR

Giving me a 7% chance of double 660.5 average out at an extra 92.47 damage every hit. The Result being that the average damage per hit for My build at lvl 40 is 752.47

Which is lets see
752.47 (me)
-725.47 (INT)
--------
27 (Me > INT)

Meaning, INT +25, SPR +20 gives 27 more damage average per hit then a Pure INT mage of the same lvl.


:cool:

Now.. Off paper and into reality, once you get to about this lvl, you will not be doing this kind of damage as higher lvl Monsters have damage drop.

You'll be lucky to do 200 your average will more then likely be in the low 100s.
This is why Crits become so desirable.