Full INT or INT/SPR ?

[Twinkle]

I am currently a level 25 full INT mage with 90 INT(+30). I'm not sure if I should continue to be a full INT mage, or start getting my SPR up to 25. Suggestions ?

[SpeedBurner]

A bit of SPR never hurts.

[Liala]

add 25 Spr. You'll thank me later. ;)

[PsychoticEnigma]

Stay on the full INT course. Getting a critical is all about luck. So you're leaving your fate in the hands of Lady Luck and let me warn you, she is NOT fair. Rather than throwing your points into SPR and getting a minor critical bonus, about 125 SP, and a little bit of extra M. Defense, you should pump up INT. Besides, even without SPR its not like you can't just buy equipment to enhance your critical rate. Good luck with that.

[Liala]

25 SPR rest INT mages do more damage on average then full INT mages, they also have more sp, higher magic def, and save money on sp stones/pots.

Buying +spr rings, as far as I am aware, doesn't actually raise criticals.
However buying +INT rings raises magic damage.

So you are better off with +25 Spr at a higher lvl, which if the poster starts now will be lvl 50 (ouch)

[PsychoticEnigma]

Unless you have proof of 25 SPR then INT Mages doing more damage than a pure INT Mage, your statement should be completely disregarded. SPR rings do not enhance your critical rate. All they do is give you more SP. Not entirely sure about M. Defense though. Trust me, I used to have 25 SPR then the rest into INT and I noticed that a friend of mine of nearly the exact same level who went pure INT was doing far more damage than me. Not to mention within about a week or so she was already level 51.

[Liala]

I can do proof.

Copied from a post of in another thread.

"Me VS a Full INT Mage
---------------------
At lvl 40
(I'm not lvl 45 yet and want to play with even numbers)

you will (on paper) do:
573-688 Magic Damage Base which is an average of 630.5

If your a full INT Build (+45 INT),
You can add 54 damage to that.. 54 + the average = 684.5

If you're me, you will have + 25 INT
so I add 30 damage to that... 30 + the average = 660.5

Now lets add the Crits....

If the Full INT mage is a Wand user...
they will have +3% Crit from their Wand
they have 0 Spr. so no bonus from that.

A 3% chance of double 684.5 averages out at an extra 41.07 damage every hit. The result being that the average damage per hit for a full INT mage is 725.47.

Now me.
at lvl 40.. +25 INT +20 SPR (25 at lvl 45) I am a Wand User.
I have +3 Crit from my Wand.
I have +4 Crit from 20 SPR

Giving me a 7% chance of double 660.5 average out at an extra 92.47 damage every hit. The Result being that the average damage per hit for My build at lvl 40 is 752.47

Which is lets see
752.47 (me)
-725.47 (INT)
--------
27 (Me > INT)

Meaning, INT +25, SPR +20 gives 27 more damage average per hit then a Pure INT mage of the same lvl.




Now.. Off paper and into reality, once you get to about this lvl, you will not be doing this kind of damage as higher lvl Monsters have damage drop, especially in Uruga and aew.

You'll be lucky to do 200 your average will more then likely be in the low-mid 100s.
This is why Crits become so desirable."

[CursedMagus]

Words are words. That would not hold up in Court. I want photographic evidence of two level whatever Mages, one with 25 SPR then the rest into INT and another Mage who's pure INT attacking the same mob. And I want them to both take a screenshot. But at the same time they've got to have the EXACT same equipment. Otherwise there's something one could have that the other doesn't that could affect the outcome of this "debate". Personally, I say pure INT is the best especially in the lower levels. And if my friend can breeze right past me and do more damage than me then obviously she's doing something right. And by the way, I was using a Wand and she was using a Staff.

[futurefate]

i go with INT/SPR becouse Im one. excuse the spelling:rolleyes:

[Seikas]

Those extra damage numbers seem to be twice what they should be >_>

((93*660.5)+(7*(2*660.5))-(100*660.5))/100
((93 shots of normal damage + 7 shots of double damage) - (100 shots with no criticals, base damage)) / 100 shots = 46.24 extra damage per shot = 706.74 average damage

((97*684.5)+(3*(2*684.5))-(100*684.5))/100
((97 shots of normal damage + 3 shots of double damage) - (100 shots with no criticals, base damage)) / 100 shots = 20.54 extra damage per shot = 705.04 average damage

A difference of 1.7 average damage, but this calculation doesn't take into account the damage reduction (MDef, level difference adjustments, etc.) of the target...

Using the data from http://www.outspark.com/forums//showpost.php?p=97771&postcount=25
The damage reduction seems to be constant for mages of the same level against the same monster.
(MAtk + Int Bonus - Damage Reduction) = Damage to target

Against that specific monster:

An INT 0 SPR 45 mage would do:
(630.5 + 0 - 455) = 175.5 damage and 8% crit, for an average of 189.54 damage.

An INT 25 SPR 20 mage would do:
(630.5 + 30 - 455) = 205.5 damage and 7% crit, for an average of 219.89 damage.

An INT 45 SPR 0 mage would do:
(630.5 + 54 - 455) = 229.5 damage and 3% crit, for an average of 236.39 damage.

Formula to know how much damage is needed for INT/SPR hybrid to match pure INT wearing the same equipment, assuming a base critical rate of 0%: 600+(EquipmentCrit%*6)-INT*1.2

With a bit of number crunching, it seems that 25 SPR hybrids only catch up to full INT when your average damage, against monsters worth fighting, is greater than 594 (for level 40) or 577 (for level 59) at 3% equipment crit. So, unless you're fighting something with very low MDef, the 25 points moved from INT to SPR isn't worth the MAtk loss.

P.S. Assuming the base critical rate to be 0% only helps the INT/SPR hybrid to compete against pure INT... as the critical rate increases, the gap between INT and INT/SPR grows.

[ultraraven]

you have one thing wrong with your math magic damage that is form INT that you added from your lvl up points is added after minus form defence and is also not show in your magic damage stat on your character window.

PS: this also is how str from lvl up stats too

[CursedMagus]

you have one thing wrong with your math magic damage that is form INT that you added from your lvl up points is added after minus form defence and is also not show in your magic damage stat on your character window.

PS: this also is how str from lvl up stats too

Err... defense is completely negated against magic. Magic Defense, however, is not. But the Magic Defense of Fighters, Archers, and Clerics is pretty weak. Besides all these numbers being thrown around are nothing more than mere assumptions and guesses.

[Skape87]

ya id say 25 spr just top get that lil better chance for cryt then rest into int

[Seikas]

I don't see how giving up 30 average damage (25 INT * 1.2 MAtk) is worthwhile for +5% increased damage / final average damage (25 SPR * 0.2 Crit%) unless you are hitting enemies for 600ish, making up for that 30 MAtk drop.

[Twinkle]

Thanks for all your input everyone, but I've decided to stay on the full INT path.

[SpeedBurner]

Words are words. That would not hold up in Court. I want photographic evidence of two level whatever Mages, one with 25 SPR then the rest into INT and another Mage who's pure INT attacking the same mob. And I want them to both take a screenshot. But at the same time they've got to have the EXACT same equipment. Otherwise there's something one could have that the other doesn't that could affect the outcome of this "debate". Personally, I say pure INT is the best especially in the lower levels. And if my friend can breeze right past me and do more damage than me then obviously she's doing something right. And by the way, I was using a Wand and she was using a Staff.

That's the worst thing you could possibly say. Words are words, but numbers are numbers too. The whole point of all this math is so we don't waste a couple of days levelling up a character that's going to be no good later on.

I know some people have the time and enjoy making test characters, but, seriously. Many others don't.

[NinjaBaker]

I think full Int. is the way to go.

Once you reach lvl 20 and equip a wand and some earings that raise critical hit rate by 1 youll be owning

[Luna_Moore]

Are there any equips that would raise INT by 25 to make up for a 25 SPR input? Could you just add 2 rings or something?

PM me, I won't check the forum.

[Corrin]

I go 2:1 int:spr i don't know if that's a good thing but that's what i do.....



http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpgTake the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz. (http://www.wizards.com/magic/playmagic/whatcolorareyou.asp)

[Haiyastan]

follwo this and be enlightened
http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19713
GOOD LUCK

[Xadien]

Those extra damage numbers seem to be twice what they should be >_>

((93*660.5)+(7*(2*660.5))-(100*660.5))/100
((93 shots of normal damage + 7 shots of double damage) - (100 shots with no criticals, base damage)) / 100 shots = 46.24 extra damage per shot = 706.74 average damage

((97*684.5)+(3*(2*684.5))-(100*684.5))/100
((97 shots of normal damage + 3 shots of double damage) - (100 shots with no criticals, base damage)) / 100 shots = 20.54 extra damage per shot = 705.04 average damage

A difference of 1.7 average damage, but this calculation doesn't take into account the damage reduction (MDef, level difference adjustments, etc.) of the target...

Using the data from http://www.outspark.com/forums//showpost.php?p=97771&postcount=25
The damage reduction seems to be constant for mages of the same level against the same monster.
(MAtk + Int Bonus - Damage Reduction) = Damage to target

Against that specific monster:

An INT 0 SPR 45 mage would do:
(630.5 + 0 - 455) = 175.5 damage and 8% crit, for an average of 189.54 damage.

An INT 25 SPR 20 mage would do:
(630.5 + 30 - 455) = 205.5 damage and 7% crit, for an average of 219.89 damage.

An INT 45 SPR 0 mage would do:
(630.5 + 54 - 455) = 229.5 damage and 3% crit, for an average of 236.39 damage.

Formula to know how much damage is needed for INT/SPR hybrid to match pure INT wearing the same equipment, assuming a base critical rate of 0%: 600+(EquipmentCrit%*6)-INT*1.2

With a bit of number crunching, it seems that 25 SPR hybrids only catch up to full INT when your average damage, against monsters worth fighting, is greater than 594 (for level 40) or 577 (for level 59) at 3% equipment crit. So, unless you're fighting something with very low MDef, the 25 points moved from INT to SPR isn't worth the MAtk loss.

P.S. Assuming the base critical rate to be 0% only helps the INT/SPR hybrid to compete against pure INT... as the critical rate increases, the gap between INT and INT/SPR grows.

25//20 is me4life

[Vincentx]

Stay on the full INT course. Getting a critical is all about luck. So you're leaving your fate in the hands of Lady Luck and let me warn you, she is NOT fair. Rather than throwing your points into SPR and getting a minor critical bonus, about 125 SP, and a little bit of extra M. Defense, you should pump up INT. Besides, even without SPR its not like you can't just buy equipment to enhance your critical rate. Good luck with that.

Critical is all about luck????
its about percentage, the more % you have the more criticals you do.
25spr gives you 5% critical PLUS! 5% from zk,gk,tk weapons, then earrings with2% crit. you will do criticals often, besides you get INT from good equips.

add 25 spr then full int, using wand :P

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x252/vincentXkam/kam_12.png

[Setokira]

Look people, never go full int, Check These number, ull c a hybrid beats a pure.

im going(by lvl100) 25spr the rest Int
also here is how ur stats effect u and what a pure build looks like for each stat:D :cool:

STATS;
STR = +1.2dmg
END = +.1%block(1~50)/.05%block(51+), +.5def, +5hp.
DEX = +.2%evade(1~50)/.1%evade(51+), +.3%aim(1~33)/.2%aim(34~67)/.1%aim(68+)
INT = +1.2Mdmg
SPR = +.2%crit(1~25)/.1%crit(26+), +.5Mdef, +5sp

If the max level is 100, then this is how a PURE build would look like.

STR = +138dmg
END = +8.25%block, +57.5def, +575hp
DEX = +16.5%evade, +21.2%aim
INT = +138Mdmg
SPR = +14%crit, +57.5Mdef, +575sp
this is assuming that from level 1~100 you get a free stat point each level, and that you received the +5 free stat points from the first job advance, and +10 free stat points from the second job advance.

U have a point with how the crit ratio works out... think of this

1 hit 300dmg with mm1 ok, now lets give me full int ill then hit 438mm1

now for purecritical every 14 hits i WILL do one hit of 600dmg, but for the most part ill be doing 300dmg,

for 14hits an int build does like 6100dmg

now ur unlucky spr mage(with his 1 crtical) does like 4500dmg.

But maybe ur lucky and u get 2 crtical hit then ur doing 5100dmg per 14 hits

maybe u r really luck and u average 3/14 lucky hits then ur doing 5700 dmg, and ppl 3/14 is like 21%... witch is pretty gay.

now throw in all the gear and figure that out your self, next let look at my mage 25spr witch is 5% critcal hits, now i have the rest int witch is 90int and +108 Tech(magic...newbs) dmg so ill hit 408 dmg every time and every 20hits ill get a 800hit. so now per 20 hits
ill do 8550...( my one garunteed crit hit included) a little less than full int masge hitting 438 20times(8760) int mage BUT lets say i get lucky and get like 2 or three hits per twenty then ill be doing 8944dmg, with 3/20 lucky hit's ill do
9336dmg, a bit more than ur full int mage, so ppls going full anything is wack, id go 25spr then the rest int, as u can see here, u WILL ALWAYS do like 300less dmg, but if u get a little luckyer(witch happens everyso often ull hit 500more then full in mage)

So i advise u balence. Im goin 25spr and the rest int. Plus i have a little more sp in case i wanna spam like ice bolt then the rest mm. SO like i say id go 25spr the rest int. Im not the only who suggests this lots of mages suggest this build as well(i can think of one other, im sure ther r more) so try it, the odds r good!:cool: :D

[Haiyastan]

guys I ran numbers and I will tell ya this 25 SPR is pretty good yes but there is one condition your damage has to be over 9000 unless that is so full INT will still be a bit more stronger than you and a lot more reliable.
FOLLOW THIS
http://www.outspark.com//forums/showthread.php?t=19713

[Xadien]

im working with 25 SPR////15 Int currently, using a Wand, Not bad at all

[SilverPheonix]

Hi,
I am a lvl 56 mage and i am a hybrid build too. Though till now i have allocated only 20 to spr and rest to Int. Now my damage is around Mdam:1100-1200 solo. This is my mag damage. As mm1 hit vary according to mob. Also i use few green equips which give me Int bonus so i make sure i get INT equips. The added SPR allows me to spam spells and use them at max lvl which gives a little added bonus (Although not much)

I think hybrid build is the idea for a mage. But crossing 25 spr is lame. Also from what i have experienced if ur crit is 4.2% it acts as 5%. I have tried this with 1% and 1.2%. Although it may be pure coincedence.But after lot of experiments i believe it. :D

What i think is they should change thier build according to the equip they own cause some may already have heavy spr equips sp they must go for PURE INT. and so on. Although equip SPR doesnt give CRIT

[agnorak]

In my experience Hybrids have never out damaged a pure Int but it also greatly depends on your gear and license ect.

But now with the Cash shop you have to take into the account of the +crit costumes and the +4 pets. With those going pure Int is probably a way better idea in terms of damage.

[goldenwitch]

yes it may be true that if u go 25spr u get 5% more crit = more dmg, but the key thing really is that u do more dmg OVER MANY HITS!!!! So i think that build is mainly and probably only for boss hunting where u actually do many hits on the same mob.

Otherwise lets say the mob has 1000hp and a full int mage hits it for 350 each time, takes him 3hits ~~ a 25spr mage would hit lets say for 320, takes him 4hits per mob, even if he gets lucky and does 640 on one hit it will still take him 3 hits.

So ppl, u see its not dmg that matters, its the number of hits it takes u to kill a normal monster that really matters, as it decides whether how long u needa keep running and how many hits u take and how fast u train therefore how effective ur mage is.

For that I say FULL INT > 25SPR, INT

[Liala]

I guess theres only one way to settle this then...

Any Full Int Mage want to go 1 vs 1 pvp with me?

I'm Lvl 56 make sure you are the same level.

We can kill each other for an hour and see who wins by the end of it. :cool:

[goldenwitch]

Wouldn't one of u just die in like 2 hits? lol...anyways its hunting that matters, unless ur making a mage specifically for genocide of all other players lol...

[agnorak]

I guess theres only one way to settle this then...

Any Full Int Mage want to go 1 vs 1 pvp with me?

I'm Lvl 56 make sure you are the same level.

We can kill each other for an hour and see who wins by the end of it. :cool:

i would love to, but please hit cap first so its even.

also pm me on the forums what rules or conditions you want if any.

[lordalden]

guys I ran numbers and I will tell ya this 25 SPR is pretty good yes but there is one condition your damage has to be over 9000 unless that is so full INT will still be a bit more stronger than you and a lot more reliable.
FOLLOW THIS
http://www.outspark.com//forums/showthread.php?t=19713

I don't mean this offensively, but that guide of yours is really misinformed on a lot of things, such as your reasons for picking Pure INT. Check out the "WIP: Pure DPS Mage" thread. You'll learn a few things.

[avatar_afan]

yes. i want full my int please teach me
:o

[MohJee]

Of course a 25+SPR:Rest INT mage will be able to kill a Full INT mage due to the increased M.Defense of the former .. but that doesn't mean that they make more damage than them on mobs ..

[-Leona-]

+5% critical always counts, i was to lazy to read the whole thing so if it was already stated ignore this.

IF u have 3%-5% crit on your weapon, with your extra earrings, a crit tux and a fully upgraded license 5% on top of that will make u crit the hell out of your opponent xD.

5% Special Crited Weapon
5% SparkCash Costume
5% If the costume is Crited
5% Critical if your license is maxed out (the critical bonus counts for all mobs including bosses)
2% Earrings (if level 53+ if not just 1% extra)
5% IF U HAVE 25spr

THAT IS A WHOOPING 27% critical rate instead of 22% :/ if anyone says it won't count than hmmm that person is totally ignorant :D

(might be more bonuses than that but i can't think of any right now)

[Firemind]

+5% critical always counts, i was to lazy to read the whole thing so if it was already stated ignore this.

IF u have 3%-5% crit on your weapon, with your extra earrings, a crit tux and a fully upgraded license 5% on top of that will make u crit the hell out of your opponent xD.

5% Special Crited Weapon
5% SparkCash Costume
5% If the costume is Crited
5% Critical if your license is maxed out (the critical bonus counts for all mobs including bosses)
2% Earrings (if level 53+ if not just 1% extra)
5% IF U HAVE 25spr

THAT IS A WHOOPING 27% critical rate instead of 22% :/ if anyone says it won't count than hmmm that person is totally ignorant :D

(might be more bonuses than that but i can't think of any right now)

Well said. BUT: For a full INT it's 22% if anyone is thinking that doesn't count he is totally ignorant.

What I mean is that full INT mages DO score crits, and DO get crit bonus from equipment. The question here isn't if crits are worth it. but:

If +5% crit chance is better than +30 damage per spell. And everybody should take into acount that when an INT mage crits he doubles INT damage too, even if he crits less when he does he scores more damage than a SPR build (full or 25).

Sidenote: magic def and SP bonus is worthles in PvE: Sp bonus is insignificant in comparisson to base SP of mages and M.Def is negligible because of so few monsters using magical atacks.

[Shumirah]

Guys... Seriously, too each their own. 25/20's and full INT's are both great. We are the DD's of this game regardless of own chosen paths. These arguments between which is better between INT/SPR and upgraded and non-upgraded spells need to end and lets just focus on the pros and cons to help others decide what they may want to do, without the fighting among ourselves.

[Shumirah]

SPR adds M.DEF so for PvP I would think should be the better in the match up. Although it could just even it up. Makes an interesting fight I think. Might just be between who has better gear and who is faster with casting, healing at the same time and who chooses spells better. BTW I watched Maiya destroy another mage in Uruga. So if you're going agenst her, you will have a tough fight. ^_^

PS no sparks store bought gear is my suggestion.

[s0uls]

What's better for a mage?

25 spr before lvl25 (after it gives 0.01 to crit)

or just 25 spr max about lvl 40 ?

[flexiblebullet]

so SPR is better for PVP because of the magic defense that it might have to use against other mages in PVP?

[Liala]

The damage difference bettween a +25 spr and a full INT mage is so minute, it doesn't even matter. Atleast going +25 spr, you get an additional 5% crit, added mdef, and more sp.

[violence]

Words are words. That would not hold up in Court. I want photographic evidence of two level whatever Mages, one with 25 SPR then the rest into INT and another Mage who's pure INT attacking the same mob. And I want them to both take a screenshot. But at the same time they've got to have the EXACT same equipment. Otherwise there's something one could have that the other doesn't that could affect the outcome of this "debate". Personally, I say pure INT is the best especially in the lower levels. And if my friend can breeze right past me and do more damage than me then obviously she's doing something right. And by the way, I was using a Wand and she was using a Staff.

the only reason you think was doign more damage is cause kept pulling aggro of you while if you were doing more crits you would still not take aggro for long and do more damage in the long run im lvl 61 and im telling ya 25 spr rest int is the way to go

[Myrmiston]

I started putting some SPR into my build, but I noticed I was getting outdamaged by Archers lower level than me, so I went back to INT. I suppose if SPR is actually that worth it, I'll put a bit more. I'm at Level 23, and I think I have about 7 SPR and the rest is INT.

[slashtrak]

Why not make a SPR/DEX Mage?

That'd be unique, for sure.

Then you wouldn't have to worry if you were optimizing your attack via adding into int or spr!

[Aayden]

i say that the spr really does cause a difrence, as soon as i started adding spr my crit hit rate skyrocketed.

[KireiYosei]

I did +25 SPR, more sp so you don't use as much stones, you get a higher crit rate, and mdefense.