Suggestion for Helgas Tomb solution. [Archive]

HeroicAce

05-08-2009, 10:04 PM

All the weapons were nerfed, well why not do the same to helga?

-nerf Helga by 60%

-nerf Helgas spawn time 60%

-nerf the regular monsters in Helgas Tomb by 60%

End Result:

-More helgaits

-helga is easier, but not a total push over

-more people would have an opportunity to not only take part in raids, but to actually have a helgait of their own.

Really I dont see any problem with this idea, but hey, thats just me ;D

- nerfing helga 60% makes him a lvl 50 mob. for a boss class monster if they did that they might as well make him a slime. helga or his mobs do not need nerfing. if you want to kill him then go lvl higher.

- nerfing spawn time isnt a bad idea in order to limit drops, but since he will be a super rare mob there will be many fights over who gets to kill him. and fights were the whole reason he was closed in the first place.

- more hellgaits is a bad thing, not good. they are supposed to be the rarest class of weapon in the game and in my opinion we already have entirely too many. if anything they should be harder to get.

-getting a hellgait is one of those things that should be like an end game goal. it should take raids upon raids to get one unless you just get really lucky. making them easier to get will just make them like blues are now.

- all in all i like that you took the time to offer a solution but really you are thinking about this the wrong way. helga was closed because of the fights over his spawn time, and many people getting multiple weapons. making him easier and more weapons is not the way to fix those.

piepiepiepie

05-08-2009, 10:15 PM

helga was closed because of the fights over his spawn time, and many people getting multiple weapons. making him easier and more weapons is not the way to fix those.
To my understanding Helga was closed because of the fights and because a FEW people were getting all the helgaits. I know of people who had 20+ while others who went to just as many raids didn't even have one. I think they closed the tomb to figure out a way to make helga still killable and yet break those few people's monopolization of helga

HeroicAce

05-08-2009, 10:20 PM

To my understanding Helga was closed because of the fights and because a FEW people were getting all the helgaits. I know of people who had 20+ while others who went to just as many raids didn't even have one. I think they closed the tomb to figure out a way to make helga still killable and yet break those few people's monopolization of helga

well while i have heard that, it didnt exactly happen that way on our server so i stated what i knew cause i didnt want to risk using bad info. for us in teva it broke down to guild raids and the guilds just got lots of weapons. some gave them out while others it was whoever picked them up kept them, so it was a bit more spread out but still the general problem. some people got the kill him and force others away.

FlashBoom

05-08-2009, 10:21 PM

All the weapons were nerfed, well why not do the same to helga?

-nerf Helga by 60%

-nerf Helgas spawn time 60%

-nerf the regular monsters in Helgas Tomb by 60%

End Result:

-More helgaits

-helga is easier, but not a total push over

-more people would have an opportunity to not only take part in raids, but to actually have a helgait of their own.

Really I dont see any problem with this idea, but hey, thats just me ;D

terrible idea, there are way too many hellgaits as it is.
they should

-raise helga's stats by 50%

-make helga spawn time 1week(like it is supposed to be, they made it 1day for event, and seen how much $ they made from it, so left it 1day -.-)

-leave HG monsters the same

-lower helga's drop rate to a 50% chance of 1 hellgait drop.

hellgaits are supposed to be kinda rare and hard to get, thats y they are so powerful. if they made em easier to get wth is the point of lv90,95,100 weapons?

helga was ment to be really hard, but when you have alot of sc pots and 70% charms, helga is really weak. you mix that w/ hellgait weps/shields, helga would die in like 1-2mins. because @ 89cap raise apoline was able to beat helga in like 5-10mins

spheris

05-08-2009, 10:22 PM

- nerfing helga 60% makes him a lvl 50 mob. for a boss class monster if they did that they might as well make him a slime. helga or his mobs do not need nerfing. if you want to kill him then go lvl higher.

- nerfing spawn time isnt a bad idea in order to limit drops, but since he will be a super rare mob there will be many fights over who gets to kill him. and fights were the whole reason he was closed in the first place.

- more hellgaits is a bad thing, not good. they are supposed to be the rarest class of weapon in the game and in my opinion we already have entirely too many. if anything they should be harder to get.

-getting a hellgait is one of those things that should be like an end game goal. it should take raids upon raids to get one unless you just get really lucky. making them easier to get will just make them like blues are now.

- all in all i like that you took the time to offer a solution but really you are thinking about this the wrong way. helga was closed because of the fights over his spawn time, and many people getting multiple weapons. making him easier and more weapons is not the way to fix those.

Ok so kill the nerfing Helga and his mobs idea, cause really now that I think about it if someone with my def can act as a tank in there Helgas fine as is.

-if helgaits are supposed to be the rarest why not increase the lv it takes to use them then?

Anyways the idea behind having more would be so people like myself could actually defend themselves against a helgait onslaught.

I don't know what server you're on but on Epith some of the few who do have helgaits make it impossible for someone like myself to go into the abyss anymore, and you have to tip toe around the ones with foul attitudes or risk a war -.-"

-then theres always the idea of making it an instance dungeon like DT

-or maybe make multiple helga tombs scattered about? like have the one in forrest of slumber, maybe make one in burning rock, swamp of dawn, and Alberstol, and make it so that only one or two of the helgas drop a helgait.

Anyways keep the constructive ideas comming people :O

spheris

05-08-2009, 10:27 PM

spheris

05-08-2009, 10:32 PM

terrible idea, there are way too many hellgaits as it is.
they should

-raise helga's stats by 50%

-make helga spawn time 1week(like it is supposed to be, they made it 1day for event, and seen how much $ they made from it, so left it 1day -.-)

-leave HG monsters the same

-lower helga's drop rate to a 50% chance of 1 hellgait drop.

hellgaits are supposed to be kinda rare and hard to get, thats y they are so powerful. if they made em easier to get wth is the point of lv90,95,100 weapons?

helga was ment to be really hard, but when you have alot of sc pots and 70% charms, helga is really weak. you mix that w/ hellgait weps/shields, helga would die in like 1-2mins. because @ 89cap raise apoline was able to beat helga in like 5-10mins

Wether theres "too many" helgaits really depends on the server.

Like on Epith, theres helgaits, but no telling how many though since very few people admit to having one.

And I've only seen like four or five being sold, and they never do cause someones always trying to charde like 999 gem, and no I'm not joking :P

Anyways if they powered up helga by 50%, I dont care who you are, at lv89 you would die, end of story.

__________________________________________________ ________________

EDIT: New idea :O

Might be horrible, might not.

keep everything the same, except for the spawn time

Make helga respawn every hour, BUT not every one will drop a helgait.

That way theres loads of helgas for everyone to have at, while at the same time preserving the rarity of helgaits, and breaking those certain peoples ability to monopolize helga because theres no way they can be at helgas tomb for every respawn :O

FlashBoom

05-08-2009, 10:40 PM

Ok so kill the nerfing Helga and his mobs idea, cause really now that I think about it if someone with my def can act as a tank in there Helgas fine as is.

-if helgaits are supposed to be the rarest why not increase the lv it takes to use them then?

Anyways the idea behind having more would be so people like myself could actually defend themselves against a helgait onslaught.

I don't know what server you're on but on Epith some of the few who do have helgaits make it impossible for someone like myself to go into the abyss anymore, and you have to tip toe around the ones with foul attitudes or risk a war -.-"

-then theres always the idea of making it an instance dungeon like DT

-or maybe make multiple helga tombs scattered about? like have the one in forrest of slumber, maybe make one in burning rock, swamp of dawn, and Alberstol, and make it so that only one or two of the helgas drop a helgait.

Anyways keep the constructive ideas comming people :O

what do you mean raise the lv of them lol? and what does that have to do with rarity?
definition of rare is something not easy to obtain, or in limited supply.

uber lv wep @ 91. or uber lv wep @ lv 100. either way, it would just make the 100 abyss like the 90 abyss for you. it would just delay the same effect for later. if they make weps lv 100, they would increase damage/aim to according to lv100weps.

helgaits are supposed to be lke lv50 and lv70blues.(tho through glitch 70blues are not rare at all)
but think of lv50 blues, like maybe 10 on each server lol?

Wether theres "too many" helgaits really depends on the server.

Like on Epith, theres helgaits, but no telling how many though since very few people admit to having one.

And I've only seen like four or five being sold, and they never do cause someones always trying to charde like 999 gem, and no I'm not joking :P

Anyways if they powered up helga by 50%, I dont care who you are, at lv89 you would die, end of story.

__________________________________________________ ________________

EDIT: New idea :O

Might be horrible, might not.

keep everything the same, except for the spawn time

Make helga respawn every hour, BUT not every one will drop a helgait.

That way theres loads of helgas for everyone to have at, while at the same time preserving the rarity of helgaits, and breaking those certain peoples ability to monopolize helga because theres no way they can be at helgas tomb for every respawn :O

apoline has over 100 helgaits currently, and sell for 20-50g

YoshimaruOrona

05-08-2009, 10:41 PM

but if they did that there wouldn't be any point to reopening Helgas Tomb @.@

Helga's Tomb had a purpose? O.o;;

Oh, you mean it was supposed to house an uber tough boss that dropped the godliest weapon in existence?

-Helga dies in 5 minutes-

....I sense fail >.>

(Off-topic: Props go to Teva and Apo for getting the job done prior to the release of the 70%, 90%, 100%, and 1337% charms)

Anyways wheres the fun in getting a Helgait super easy like that >;D

And the fun is in not getting utterly raped by hellgait owners :>

Anyway, if that idea is bad, for w/e reason, then best option so far is the instance dungeon plan.

Only other thing I can think to do is when helga dies, everything in the tomb dies, and chests spawn all over the tomb. Everybody gets 60 seconds to find a hellgait. How many hellgaits should be hidden? No more than 4 or 5, I'd think. This plan does have a couple of loopholes though. People can just sit around and just wait for helga to die, then look for the wep/shield. To prevent this, might I suggest a lv lock on the tomb? Lv80 and higher sounds within reason to me. Leeching will still be a problem, but lower lv'd players would have no chance at it until they're within the level requirement for the tomb.

HeroicAce

05-08-2009, 10:43 PM

Ok so kill the nerfing Helga and his mobs idea, cause really now that I think about it if someone with my def can act as a tank in there Helgas fine as is.

-if helgaits are supposed to be the rarest why not increase the lv it takes to use them then?

Anyways the idea behind having more would be so people like myself could actually defend themselves against a helgait onslaught.

I don't know what server you're on but on Epith some of the few who do have helgaits make it impossible for someone like myself to go into the abyss anymore, and you have to tip toe around the ones with foul attitudes or risk a war -.-"

-then theres always the idea of making it an instance dungeon like DT

-or maybe make multiple helga tombs scattered about? like have the one in forrest of slumber, maybe make one in burning rock, swamp of dawn, and Alberstol, and make it so that only one or two of the helgas drop a hellgait.

Anyways keep the constructive ideas comming people :O

- increasing lvl doesnt make a drop rarer, only harder to use. decreasing drop rate and increasing boss difficulty makes a weapon rarer.

- if there were less weapons (like there should be in my opinion) there would be no onslaught. one or two people would have hellgaits, and then they would earn their title as orange class drops.

- i just dont fight in wars. if someone wants to kill me go ahead as long as im not in a map i lose xp on. yes hellgaits are good for wars, and yes people can abuse them, but the same thing could be said of blues when they were the best class of weapon.

- making multiple helgas does not work story wise. he is one of the only boss monsters we even have in the game, why would there be copies of him? helga is not a normal mob, and his drops arent normal drops. just making more and at different locations would only detract from the epic boss he is supposed to be.

-an instance would work but i would say you increase the instance size to 10, maybe 15, people and you lower drop rate to .5~1%. instances can be reset and redone without waiting for a spawn time. if he didnt have a low drop rate then a good party loaded with sc could farm him 15+ times a day, and without a low drop rate that might mean hundreds of hellgaits cause 30+ raids could be going at once.

- and to flash, no we dont need an increase in dmg on hellgaits. they are now scaled to our version probably as close as they can be. the old stats were in relation to the korean version which runs on numbers roughly double of what ours does. at most i would recommend another 5~6% increase just to make them truly worth being called an orange drop, but that 5~6% isnt necessary its only a personal preference.

- *edit* btw yoshi, they are not usable 29 lvls early. hellgaits have always been lvl 91, and im not talking about our version. the korean version released helga at the lvl 99 cap, as a lvl 120 boss that was almost an end game feature, and he dropped lvl 91 weapons that were orange class drops. if you've ever seen a pic of one of the first hellgaits gotten on fiesta then that is what the korean hellgaits looked like when they came out..... only written in korean.

FlashBoom

05-08-2009, 10:50 PM

- increasing lvl doesnt make a drop rarer, only harder to use. decreasing drop rate and increasing boss difficulty makes a weapon rarer.

- if there were less weapons (like there should be in my opinion) there would be no onslaught. one or two people would have hellgaits, and then they would earn their title as orange class drops.

- i just dont fight in wars. if someone wants to kill me go ahead as long as im not in a map i lose xp on. yes hellgaits are good for wars, and yes people can abuse them, but the same thing could be said of blues when they were the best class of weapon.

- making multiple helgas does not work story wise. he is one of the only boss monsters we even have in the game, why would there be copies of him? helga is not a normal mob, and his drops arent normal drops. just making more and at different locations would only detract from the epic boss he is supposed to be.

-an instance would work but i would say you increase the instance size to 10, maybe 15, people and you lower drop rate to .5~1%. instances can be reset and redone without waiting for a spawn time. if he didnt have a low drop rate then a good party loaded with sc could farm him 15+ times a day, and without a low drop rate that might mean hundreds of hellgaits cause 30+ raids could be going at once.

- and to flash, no we dont need an increase in dmg on hellgaits. they are now scaled to our version probably as close as they can be. the old stats were in relation to the korean version which runs on numbers roughly double of what ours does. at most i would recommend another 5~6% increase just to make them truly worth being called an orange drop, but that 5~6% isnt necessary its only a personal preference.

when did i say they should have damage increase? XD

HeroicAce

05-08-2009, 10:52 PM

when did i say they should have damage increase? XD

you said stats, and i assumed that meant dmg, mdmg, aim and what not. did you mean END, DEX, SPR kind of stats?

FlashBoom

05-08-2009, 10:54 PM

you said stats, and i assumed that meant dmg, mdmg, aim and what not. did you mean END, DEX, SPR kind of stats?

that was in response to the lv usage requirement of a hellgait.
if they raise min lv to use it, they would have to raise the dmg/Mdmg/aim on them to make it proportionate.

HeroicAce

05-08-2009, 10:55 PM

that was in response to the lv usage requirement of a hellgait.
if they raise min lv to use it, they would have to raise the dmg/Mdmg/aim on them to make it proportionate.

ah ok i got it now and yeah your right, raise lvl = raise dmg/aim.

YoshimaruOrona

05-08-2009, 11:05 PM

- *edit* btw yoshi, they are not usable 29 lvls early. hellgaits have always been lvl 91, and im not talking about our version. the korean version released helga at the lvl 99 cap, as a lvl 120 boss that was almost an end game feature, and he dropped lvl 91 weapons that were orange class drops. if you've ever seen a pic of one of the first hellgaits gotten on fiesta then that is what the korean hellgaits looked like when they came out..... only written in korean.

Poor choice of words on my part xD

Anyway, I've been trying to establish some string of logic as to why a level 120 boss would drop level 91 gears, godly or otherwise.

~Dungeon bosses drop weapons for X0 (ZK = 30, GGK = 40, TK = 50, etc.)

~Honeying, KKP, and GM kq's bring blues into the mix. Abyss also drops these blues but EXTREMELY rarely. Honeying = Lv50 blues [within reasonable range]. KKP = Lv70 blues [within reasonable range]. GM = Lv70 blues [late, but still within a semi-reasonable range].

~And then we have helga, a lv120 boss that drops level 91 weapons. Huh ... I don't get it (the level difference). For argument's sake, let's say that a bunch of level 91s go into HT, decked out in +9 godlies up the booty hole. They still wouldn't kill him. How about level 100's? Doubt it still. =/ 110's? Maybe. 120's? Yeah, I think so.

Sparkcash is the only reason hellgaits even exist on this game right now. Ergo, the string of logic that has been in the game thus far, level wise, has been broken by greed, partnered with the art of mental manipulation. Then again, people took the bait, so it's a double fault ~_~ Fail on the players end, and fail on the developers end.

Hope that cleared up what I meant a little bit =p

spheris

05-08-2009, 11:08 PM

Helga's Tomb had a purpose? O.o;;

Oh, you mean it was supposed to house an uber tough boss that dropped the godliest weapon in existence?

And the fun is in not getting utterly raped by hellgait owners :>

Well personally I thought the enviroment of Helgas tomb was rather pleasent.

And I've already had the pleasure of being wholloped by helgait users, as well as being ostracised by members of a certain group, and I have my own personal helgait weilding stalker @.@

- increasing lvl doesnt make a drop rarer, only harder to use. decreasing drop rate and increasing boss difficulty makes a weapon rarer.

- if there were less weapons (like there should be in my opinion) there would be no onslaught. one or two people would have hellgaits, and then they would earn their title as orange class drops.

- i just dont fight in wars. if someone wants to kill me go ahead as long as im not in a map i lose xp on. yes hellgaits are good for wars, and yes people can abuse them, but the same thing could be said of blues when they were the best class of weapon.

- making multiple helgas does not work story wise. he is one of the only boss monsters we even have in the game, why would there be copies of him? helga is not a normal mob, and his drops arent normal drops. just making more and at different locations would only detract from the epic boss he is supposed to be.

-an instance would work but i would say you increase the instance size to 10, maybe 15, people and you lower drop rate to .5~1%. instances can be reset and redone without waiting for a spawn time. if he didnt have a low drop rate then a good party loaded with sc could farm him 15+ times a day, and without a low drop rate that might mean hundreds of hellgaits cause 30+ raids could be going at once.

- and to flash, no we dont need an increase in dmg on hellgaits. they are now scaled to our version probably as close as they can be. the old stats were in relation to the korean version which runs on numbers roughly double of what ours does. at most i would recommend another 5~6% increase just to make them truly worth being called an orange drop, but that 5~6% isnt necessary its only a personal preference.

- *edit* btw yoshi, they are not usable 29 lvls early. hellgaits have always been lvl 91, and im not talking about our version. the korean version released helga at the lvl 99 cap, as a lvl 120 boss that was almost an end game feature, and he dropped lvl 91 weapons that were orange class drops. if you've ever seen a pic of one of the first hellgaits gotten on fiesta then that is what the korean hellgaits looked like when they came out..... only written in korean.

-I never had any problems with blue users, just people who were literally 20 levels higher than me back when I first started out.

-really I'd be fine with removing all current helgaits, making Helga more accesable by making the tomb an instance dungeon, and lowering the chances of getting one so that they're just a wee bit rarer than the 50 blues.

HeroicAce

05-08-2009, 11:17 PM

Poor choice of words on my part xD

Anyway, I've been trying to establish some string of logic as to why a level 120 boss would drop level 91 gears, godly or otherwise.

~Dungeon bosses drop weapons for X0 (ZK = 30, GGK = 40, TK = 50, etc.)

~Honeying, KKP, and GM kq's bring blues into the mix. Abyss also drops these blues but EXTREMELY rarely. Honeying = Lv50 blues [within reasonable range]. KKP = Lv70 blues [within reasonable range]. GM = Lv70 blues [late, but still within a semi-reasonable range].

~And then we have helga, a lv120 boss that drops level 91 weapons. Huh ... I don't get it (the level difference). For argument's sake, let's say that a bunch of level 91s go into HT, decked out in +9 godlies up the booty hole. They still wouldn't kill him. How about level 100's? Doubt it still. =/ 110's? Maybe. 120's? Yeah, I think so.

Sparkcash is the only reason hellgaits even exist on this game right now. Ergo, the string of logic that has been in the game thus far, level wise, has been broken by greed, partnered with the art of mental manipulation. Then again, people took the bait, so it's a double fault ~_~ Fail on the players end, and fail on the developers end.

Hope that cleared up what I meant a little bit =p

i understand this reasoning and let me try my best to clear it up. ill use a game that everyone has at least heard the name of as my example (namely cause my friend made me a walking database of it even though ive only played once), <Removed>. in that game they have several bosses that are much higher lvl than the players. my friend was telling me about this boss whose lvl was 100, and i said wait a minute i thought the cap was 80? he proceeded to explain to me that the lvl of the monsters and bosses are higher than the players so that it is a challenge to kill. if a boss was lvl 80 then probably any two lvl 80s could kill him and thus there would be no challenge. so to add challenge the bosses are 10, 20, 30 lvls higher than the players, but they still drop lvl 80 weapons. this is because it makes no sense to get a weapon you cannot use, so the rarer the weapon, the harder and higher lvl the boss. so just because a boss lvl is a certain number it does not mean he was meant to be killed by someone the same lvl.
*edit* and as a side note id be willing to bet some people with 95 +9 gear, and 95 BKRs would stand a chance of killing him without pots and charms. it would be tough but i know one or two groups that might have that skill.

now granted in our game its kinda messed up. they release helga in the 79 cap and therefore there would be weapons we cannot use, but when he was released in the korean version im pretty sure they were thinking along the same lines and the bosses in WoW. the cap was 99 so they made a boss at 120 to provide a really good challenge, and to reward players that killed him they released lvl 91 weapons that out classed everything else in the game to that date.

hope that explains things a bit better, and sorry if it doesnt. im getting tired and im afraid my thoughts might not be coming out straight. if you have any questions just let me know and ill check and try to write a reply that is understandable when i check the forums tomorrow.

FlashBoom

05-08-2009, 11:20 PM

-I never had any problems with blue users, just people who were literally 20 levels higher than me back when I first started out.

-really I'd be fine with removing all current helgaits, making Helga more accesable by making the tomb an instance dungeon, and lowering the chances of getting one so that they're just a wee bit rarer than the 50 blues.

you know y you never had a problem w/ blue wep users? because they are REALLY common now. every single lv70 on each server has one lol.

think of a lv50 in 50abyss that has lv 50 wep or lv50shield? they would be really uber for that lv too. and be able to pwn you like nothing in 50abyss. but they are so rare most ppl have never even seen them.

idk if you were there for 79cap, but ppl who had lv70blues were the top of the top on the server, just like hellgaits are now to this cap raise.

Edit: if they ook out current hellgaits, it would make alot of ppl who spend 100s of dollars getting quite made lol. i think 25 of fiesta population would quit, breaking a huge chunk in OS funding.

hostess619

05-08-2009, 11:26 PM

artboi

05-08-2009, 11:27 PM

spheris

05-08-2009, 11:29 PM

you know y you never had a problem w/ blue wep users? because they are REALLY common now. every single lv70 on each server has one lol.

think of a lv50 in 50abyss that has lv 50 wep or lv50shield? they would be really uber for that lv too. and be able to pwn you like nothing in 50abyss. but they are so rare most ppl have never even seen them.

idk if you were there for 79cap, but ppl who had lv70blues were the top of the top on the server, just like hellgaits are now to this cap raise.

I started playing way before blues became as common as they are now :P

Yes, I was there for the 79 cap, and I still contend that I had no problem against blue users.

I must contest though, comparing 70 blues to helgaits is a bit out there,

70 greens, for example, are not all that much weaker than 70 blues.

With helgaits though, the lv90 weps simply dont compare, for that matter not even the lv100 weps compare :P

FlashBoom

05-08-2009, 11:34 PM

plain and simple this is how you fix helga....
change spawn time to 6 hours or 12 hours so all guilds dont fight over killing helga
weapons are already nerfed hardcore so why is it still closed????
i know you guys wanna open it back up helga was a cash cow for you guys makes no sense that its still closed

what would that do lol?
on my server my guild would go there every 6hrs then. we have helgait shields so would could take helga with 1 party easy.

it would just make hellgaits not rare, just like lv70blues....

idk y they made it 1day in the 1st place, again they only though about themselves and about money. it should have stayed 1week...

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(combined posts, as to not double post)

I started playing way before blues became as common as they are now :P

Yes, I was there for the 79 cap, and I still contend that I had no problem against blue users.

I must contest though, comparing 70 blues to helgaits is a bit out there,

70 greens, for example, are not all that much weaker than 70 blues.

With helgaits though, the lv90 weps simply dont compare, for that matter not even the lv100 weps compare :P

lv100 weps are 100damage difference, 20aim difference. most hellgaits dont have stats either lol.

95bk weps are like 200damage difference, and like 50-100aim difference

the 70blues were like 20% more damage, had stats, more aim, and faster attack rate.

70 blues @ 70cap will be greater then HG @ when most ppl are 105 lol

did you do no research before posting????

yes, i agree with artboi, your just jealous you dont have one, please stfu....

HeroicAce

05-08-2009, 11:35 PM

I started playing way before blues became as common as they are now :P

Yes, I was there for the 79 cap, and I still contend that I had no problem against blue users.

I must contest though, comparing 70 blues to helgaits is a bit out there,

70 greens, for example, are not all that much weaker than 70 blues.

With helgaits though, the lv90 weps simply dont compare, for that matter not even the lv100 weps compare :P

70 blues are in fact 10 lvls better than 70 greens. just look at a 80 green.

oranges are a step beyond blues. therefore if a blue is 10 lvls beyond a green then an orange should be at least 20 lvls better than the greens of the same lvl. therefore a hellgait should be as good as a lvl 110 weapon, and in the actual korean version they are in the middle of 110 and 120.

if you've ever seen a screenie of the orange ring or necklace you will know how good they are supposed to be. the ring is a lvl 60 drop and yet has 3x/2x/2x/3x/2x stats, that is how amazing an orange normally is. to complain that a hellgait is better than a 100 weapon is crazy. you should be jumping for joy that they didnt make it like how it should be and be as good as a 110 wep.

spheris

05-08-2009, 11:36 PM

Bad idea. OP did not put any insight in his idea, he is just thinking about himself and is envious that he doesn't have one.

Helga is the hardest boss of the game. Why make him easier for everyone? People spent money to be able to kill it with ELITE groups of players for the single purpose to get a helga weapon.

You cry about people abusing you in abyss? Don't go there.

Making Helga easier will destroy the game balance in a week.

EDIT:
@Hostess

The cash cow can back-fire on their company.

If you think about it, have a lot of people roaming around with Helga items in the future, will only motivate people to quit the game.

Excuse me no?

I'm thinking of everyone who is being HARASSED by those with helgaits who choose to ABUSE a weapon thats supposed to be exceedingly rare.

Now if you wanna call the people who spend thousands to +9 everything, and stay max charmed 24/7, by all means please do because as far as I'm concerned ANYONE can do the same with the right amount of money.

And fyi, its not just the abyss dude, its EVERYWHERE.

Care to guess why? Because I dared to speak out against the so called "elite" players hoarding the weapons they couldn't possible have gotten on their own ;P

YoshimaruOrona

05-08-2009, 11:41 PM

i understand this reasoning and let me try my best to clear it up. ill use a game that everyone has at least heard the name of as my example (namely cause my friend made me a walking database of it even though ive only played once), <Removed>. in that game they have several bosses that are much higher lvl than the players. my friend was telling me about this boss whose lvl was 100, and i said wait a minute i thought the cap was 80? he proceeded to explain to me that the lvl of the monsters and bosses are higher than the players so that it is a challenge to kill. if a boss was lvl 80 then probably any two lvl 80s could kill him and thus there would be no challenge. so to add challenge the bosses are 10, 20, 30 lvls higher than the players, but they still drop lvl 80 weapons. this is because it makes no sense to get a weapon you cannot use, so the rarer the weapon, the harder and higher lvl the boss. so just because a boss lvl is a certain number it does not mean he was meant to be killed by someone the same lvl.
*edit* and as a side note id be willing to bet some people with 95 +9 gear, and 95 BKRs would stand a chance of killing him without pots and charms. it would be tough but i know one or two groups that might have that skill.

now granted in our game its kinda messed up. they release helga in the 79 cap and therefore there would be weapons we cannot use, but when he was released in the korean version im pretty sure they were thinking along the same lines and the bosses in WoW. the cap was 99 so they made a boss at 120 to provide a really good challenge, and to reward players that killed him they released lvl 91 weapons that out classed everything else in the game to that date.

hope that explains things a bit better, and sorry if it doesnt. im getting tired and im afraid my thoughts might not be coming out straight. if you have any questions just let me know and ill check and try to write a reply that is understandable when i check the forums tomorrow.

Actually, this clears things up a lot. Thanks =)

That being said, I drop my argument on the lv requirement.

But 5 minutes for helga to die .... eh.

FlashBoom

05-08-2009, 11:42 PM

spheris

05-08-2009, 11:42 PM

what would that do lol?
on my server my guild would go there every 6hrs then. we have helgait shields so would could take helga with 1 party easy.

it would just make hellgaits not rare, just like lv70blues....

idk y they made it 1day in the 1st place, again they only though about themselves and about money. it should have stayed 1week...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(combined posts, as to not double post)

lv100 weps are 100damage difference, 20aim difference. most hellgaits dont have stats either lol.

95bk weps are like 200damage difference, and like 50-100aim difference

the 70blues were like 20% more damage, had stats, more aim, and faster attack rate.

70 blues @ 70cap will be greater then HG @ when most ppl are 105 lol

did you do no research before posting????

yes, i agree with artboi, your just jealous you dont have one, please stfu....
If you cant keep civil I suggest you simply ignore this thread, no ones looking for a fight, just a solution to a problem while avoiding future monopolization,

and fyi, I can, whenever I darned well please +9 as many gears/weps as it takes to sell so I can buy a helgait, CAUSE I GOT THE MONEY TO DO THAT, I just opt not to.

so no I'm not jealous :P

70 blues are in fact 10 lvls better than 70 greens. just look at a 80 green.

oranges are a step beyond blues. therefore if a blue is 10 lvls beyond a green then an orange should be at least 20 lvls better than the greens of the same lvl. therefore a hellgait should be as good as a lvl 110 weapon, and in the actual korean version they are in the middle of 110 and 120.

if you've ever seen a screenie of the orange ring or necklace you will know how good they are supposed to be. the ring is a lvl 60 drop and yet has 3x/2x/2x/3x/2x stats, that is how amazing an orange normally is. to complain that a hellgait is better than a 100 weapon is crazy. you should be jumping for joy that they didnt make it like how it should be and be as good as a 110 wep.

actually I meant that lv100 weapons were pretty much nothing compared to a helgait

HeroicAce

05-08-2009, 11:45 PM

Actually, this clears things up a lot. Thanks =)

That being said, I drop my argument on the lv requirement.

But 5 minutes for helga to die .... eh.

i have to agree, without sc helga would probably be one of the most epic boss fights ever. as it is though, 5 minutes and hes down. if i were to have my way i would get Ons On Soft to rewrite the code for HT to cancel out all sc items except for suits, and maybe even remove the crit or half the crit on them. make it a sc less room and a truly epic boss fight. then there would be no need to fight over who kills him, cause 99.9% of players couldnt even stand in the room, and it would also keep the drops to a bare minimum. that idea will never happen but its what id like.

*edit* 100 weps arent nothing to a hellgait. i think its like 400 dmg difference and thats not a whole lot when you consider thats only about 50 actual dmg. but 100 weapons should be nothing to a hellgait. a 100 wep is only 9 lvls higher than a hellgait so if they are going to be that close then they should change the lettering from orange to blue.

spheris

05-08-2009, 11:46 PM

see there you go

you are not mad about the HG weps and their power.

you are angry ppl spend lots of sc, pk in abyss.

you just want hellgait so you stand more of a chance against them w/o sc, why did you not just say that........

@.@ I buy spark cash regularly actually, and not paultry amounts either.

Aslo, I'm a PK advocate, I support PKing even though I don't PK.

Also, even fully charmed, if you go against a charmed helgait user ou're still gonna die, especially if its the axe :P

Andromeda

05-08-2009, 11:48 PM

FlashBoom

05-08-2009, 11:48 PM

If you cant keep civil I suggest you simply ignore this thread, no ones looking for a fight, just a solution to a problem while avoiding future monopolization,

and fyi, I can, whenever I darned well please +9 as many gears/weps as it takes to sell so I can buy a helgait, CAUSE I GOT THE MONEY TO DO THAT, I just opt not to.

so no I'm not jealous :P

actually I meant that lv100 weapons were pretty much nothing compared to a helgait

offtopic much? what does you having money to +9 have anything to do with you OP, my post, or anything to do with this lol?

and if u actually read my post, the damage difference form lv100 -> helga weps is like 100. is that really that much damage difference????

and i have seen somewhere before
"Dont raise you vioce, improve your argument"

so getting mad/yelling does nothing for your point.

EDIT:

@.@ I buy spark cash regularly actually, and not paultry amounts either.

Aslo, I'm a PK advocate, I support PKing even though I don't PK.

Also, even fully charmed, if you go against a charmed helgait user ou're still gonna die, especially if its the axe :P

ummm common sense?
if your both charmed, the charms cancel out.

so its basically you probably lv89 still?
vs a person w/ hellgait, ofcourse your going to lose........

2nd EDIT:

Increasing the spawn time for Helga will benefit more than decreasing it. That would work on the Korean version but Outspark became well aware that having a spawn time set to 1 week would not work on this version due to the much increased population. If anything setting the spawn time back to 1 week would make the guild wars much nastier since Hellgaits would be more scarce and not enough to cover the population of the servers on this version.

well if they made helga respawn 1week.
made it 50% chance of a drop.

my guild would not even waste our time trying to monopolize the drops lol.
if they made it short time, and same drop rate we would..

lordalden

05-08-2009, 11:56 PM

I've been watching this topic for a while. Earlier in the thread things were rather civil, and now they're spinning around a bit. Let's please stay on topic, and I'm also asking that things be discussed further in a respectful and courteous manner or I'm going to have to close this thread.

Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.

Sincerely,

lordalden

HeroicAce

05-08-2009, 11:57 PM

Increasing the spawn time for Helga will benefit more than decreasing it. That would work on the Korean version but Outspark became well aware that having a spawn time set to 1 week would not work on this version due to the much increased population. If anything setting the spawn time back to 1 week would make the guild wars much nastier since Hellgaits would be more scarce and not enough to cover the population of the servers on this version.

i cant find any actual proof but i have heard that on bright kingdom and shine that the respawn is 1 day and that our 1 week time was probably a bug. i have looked and looked to try and confirm that on the korean version but have been unable to do so. the only thing i could find is on the patch notes when they changed the time it said this: fixed helga respawn. if i ever find proof ill post it but basically i wanted to put it out there that just maybe the 1 day respawn was not just some change to make more money. however i wont argue that they certainly did make money off that change.

spheris

05-09-2009, 12:04 AM

first thought: why did my other post disappear O.o?

Second thought: anyone who monopolized helga would most likely be feircely against this thread :P

lordalden

05-09-2009, 12:05 AM

first thought: why did my other post disappear O.o?

Second thought: anyone who monopolized helga would most likely be feircely against this thread :P

Your post disappeared for two reasons. It was severly off-topic and could be considered insulting, and I would like to give this topic a second chance at the topic to be discussed.

Also, I've never been to Helga, nor even near a level approachable for Helga. ;-)

Andromeda

05-09-2009, 12:06 AM

i cant find any actual proof but i have heard that on bright kingdom and shine that the respawn is 1 day and that our 1 week time was probably a bug. i have looked and looked to try and confirm that on the korean version but have been unable to do so. the only thing i could find is on the patch notes when they changed the time it said this: fixed helga respawn. if i ever find proof ill post it but basically i wanted to put it out there that just maybe the 1 day respawn was not just some change to make more money. however i wont argue that they certainly did make money off that change.

I already knew the Korean Version has a respawn time of 24 hours I never said they had it at 1 week I said setting it to 1 week on the Korean Version would work since their version has a really really low population and the highest level person on the Korean Version are a few Lv 11xs. No one on their version has even done the 3rd class change job yet.

FlashBoom

05-09-2009, 12:10 AM

Excuse me no?

I'm thinking of everyone who is being HARASSED by those with helgaits who choose to ABUSE a weapon thats supposed to be exceedingly rare.

Now if you wanna call the people who spend thousands to +9 everything, and stay max charmed 24/7, by all means please do because as far as I'm concerned ANYONE can do the same with the right amount of money.

And fyi, its not just the abyss dude, its EVERYWHERE.

Care to guess why? Because I dared to speak out against the so called "elite" players hoarding the weapons they couldn't possible have gotten on their own ;P

you want hellgaits to become easier to get. you get pwned by ppl who have em. so you want one.
if you want what you cant get, it means you are jealous lol

and everything about that quote says how jealous you are. and that you dont like people who spend lots of money to buy sc items.

i myself dont buy much sc. none of my armor is +9. The reason i got one was my guild is really strong, and we care about each other. so instead of ppl keep lots of them/selling them. they gave them to others in the guild.

i dont rly like the sc abusers either, they think they are better and have the high and mighty attitude, but have like no skill.

but wanting the HG weps to be as common as lv70 blues?
i actually like having something good, and something to give me edge over who spend lots of money on sc who dont have one.

and since my guild owns like 60-75% of HG stuff on server, there isnt much abuse.
the other guild that owns like 15-20% of helga weps, do abuse them however. and those few who bought them, or were in neither guild and got lucky do too.

HeroicAce

05-09-2009, 12:15 AM

first thought: why did my other post disappear O.o?

Second thought: anyone who monopolized helga would most likely be feircely against this thread :P

well since your calling me out why not?

im lvl 86 and for the record i DO have a hellgait. however im not an sc junky as i have bought 0 sc pots, and only 2 stacks of 20% charms in my life. i still have one stack as it turns out i didnt need the second for raiding. i was in the first major server raid on teva, i came again at the first successful raid, to the one after that, and the one after that. i joined a guild to try and get a weapon while raiding but instead missed 3~4 weapons (could never find out exactly what one drop was so i dont know if a fourth existed or not). then i ended up in another guild and when they decided to raid i jumped in. after 4 and a half months of raiding since he was first killed on the server i finally got my weapon, but even then i didnt pick it up. it was given to me by my guild for my hard work in the raids. if all that can be called monopolizing then i guess i did, but to me that is how a hellgait was meant to be earned. by blood sweat and tears so to speak.

im against this thread (if you can even say that, i think im more against the ideas and not the thread itself) because i dont think the ideas put forth will solve anything beyond giving everyone and their dog a weapon that should be one in a billion.

spheris

05-09-2009, 12:19 AM

Your post disappeared for two reasons. It was severly off-topic and could be considered insulting, and I would like to give this topic a second chance at the topic to be discussed.

Also, I've never been to Helga, nor even near a level approachable for Helga. ;-)

This is why I shouldn't stay up to the early AM, That aside I have another idea @.@

Keep Helga the same, keep the mobs the same, open everything up as it was, but make helgaits non-sellable, only tradable.

That would eliminate the urge to monopolize anyways.

But would probably open up some problems I'm not seeing atm casue I'm tired xD

FlashBoom

05-09-2009, 12:20 AM

well since your calling me out why not?

im lvl 86 and for the record i DO have a hellgait. however im not an sc junky as i have bought 0 sc pots, and only 2 stacks of 20% charms in my life. i still have one stack as it turns out i didnt need the second for raiding. i was in the first major server raid on teva, i came again at the first successful raid, to the one after that, and the one after that. i joined a guild to try and get a weapon while raiding but instead missed 3~4 weapons (could never find out exactly what one drop was so i dont know if a fourth existed or not). then i ended up in another guild and when they decided to raid i jumped in. after 4 and a half months of raiding since he was first killed on the server i finally got my weapon, but even then i didnt pick it up. it was given to me by my guild for my hard work in the raids. if all that can be called monopolizing then i guess i did, but to me that is how a hellgait was meant to be earned. by blood sweat and tears so to speak.

im against this thread (if you can even say that, i think im more against the ideas and not the thread itself) because i dont think the ideas put forth will solve anything beyond giving everyone and their dog a weapon that should be one in a billion.

and thats the truth

well i think im done w/ this thread

kthxbai

HeroicAce

05-09-2009, 12:22 AM

I already knew the Korean Version has a respawn time of 24 hours I never said they had it at 1 week I said setting it to 1 week on the Korean Version would work since their version has a really really low population and the highest level person on the Korean Version are a few Lv 11xs. No one on their version has even done the 3rd class change job yet.

well then there we go. chances are then that Ons On Soft just sent a patch to fix it back to a 24 hour respawn. i do agree though that extending it out a bit would make it less appealing to try and fight over. a week spawn time would certainly scare a lot of people off.

darthnish

05-09-2009, 12:25 AM

boom gimmie a hellgait bow or xbow plox ):

spheris

05-09-2009, 12:26 AM

well since your calling me out why not?

im lvl 86 and for the record i DO have a hellgait. however im not an sc junky as i have bought 0 sc pots, and only 2 stacks of 20% charms in my life. i still have one stack as it turns out i didnt need the second for raiding. i was in the first major server raid on teva, i came again at the first successful raid, to the one after that, and the one after that. i joined a guild to try and get a weapon while raiding but instead missed 3~4 weapons (could never find out exactly what one drop was so i dont know if a fourth existed or not). then i ended up in another guild and when they decided to raid i jumped in. after 4 and a half months of raiding since he was first killed on the server i finally got my weapon, but even then i didnt pick it up. it was given to me by my guild for my hard work in the raids. if all that can be called monopolizing then i guess i did, but to me that is how a hellgait was meant to be earned. by blood sweat and tears so to speak.

im against this thread (if you can even say that, i think im more against the ideas and not the thread itself) because i dont think the ideas put forth will solve anything beyond giving everyone and their dog a weapon that should be one in a billion.

1: How in the world am I calling you out?

2: By monopolizing I mean hoarding nearly all the helgaits on the server (and I'm talking about epith -.-") and selling them for insane prices

__________________________________________________ _____

I dont know how many times I have to say it, I'm not jealous, and have no reason to be, because I can pretty much get the 1h ans sheild whenever I darned well please ;P

BUT, thats not why I posted this thread I posted it to try and come up with a solution that everyone can be content with.

HeroicAce

05-09-2009, 08:42 AM

1: How in the world am I calling you out?

2: By monopolizing I mean hoarding nearly all the helgaits on the server (and I'm talking about epith -.-") and selling them for insane prices

__________________________________________________ _____

I dont know how many times I have to say it, I'm not jealous, and have no reason to be, because I can pretty much get the 1h ans sheild whenever I darned well please ;P

BUT, thats not why I posted this thread I posted it to try and come up with a solution that everyone can be content with.

you called me out when you said you thought everyone against the thread was someone that was monopolizing the tomb. my post was to show that i had done no such thing and was against the ideas for entirely different reasons. i meant no anger or anything like that. i mearly wanted to present my case to let you judge if i was bias or not.

as for solutions i said it before. i like that you took the time to try and think of ideas, but as of yet i think they are still off the needed mark. by all means though, if you come up with any other ideas please post them and i would be happy to continue discussing them with you.

*edit* well now that im awake i reread your post and saw that you said people monopolizing helga would be against the thread, not people against the thread monopolized helga. sorry about that. ill try and not read posts at 3 am anymore, apparently i read them backwards.

viorexx

05-09-2009, 09:08 AM

let turn Helga into a guild instance.
there needs to be something for guilds to do together other then grind and more grinding.

because its a instance each guild has the option to kill helga
the spown rate should be ones a week and the guild can only try it ones. meaning if everyone dies then the instance is over and you cant try it for another week.
this way there will not be a constant farming of helga.

the only problem i see about this is that one person can make several guilds and then farm helga. so there needs to be some kind of wait time before any new member can enter the helga instance.

Celtic_Princess

05-09-2009, 09:08 AM

I like to think of the closing of Helga's Tomb like a mother watching her two kids play. If you cannot share the toy, you cannot have the toy at all.

The problem with Helga's Tomb was the endless accusations of warring, KSing, training, harassment, etc. We as players were incapable of sharing, and having had to close several of the topics on Helga I don't blame them for making the decision they did. It brought out the worst in so many people, and it turned friends into enemies in a heartbeat. All over pixels.

Hellgait drops should be rare. That said, yes I have one and yes it has stats. However, I've only been in two successful raids. I was just lucky. I do not intend to make PvP a focus in my gameplay just because I have the wep...and I'm sure there are others out there who feel the same way. To me, having a hellgait makes my ability to grind more efficient. As a cleric, thats a godsend.

In my own opinion, and with my own experiences I think Helga's dmg/def should be increased to compensate for our stackable charms.

I think the drop rate should be lowered to the point where you might not get one each time. This would cut down severly on the number of people who want to charm up and go dashing in every day.

Like others have said, the fact that Helga is so easy to kill on our version but not on the others means that some sort of change might need to take place. On Teva, we had 5 players killing it daily and in a short amount of time. Kudos to them for creating and working a strategy for that many successes...but a boss that drops Orange weps should not be that easy. Getting past the Kallaps is harder than killing Helga.