Benefits of the rarely used equips?

[Drizzt-]

I've been playing fiesta for awile now and I've always wondered yet never gotten a good answer on this topic.

What are the benefits of using a:
-Mace vs. Hammer
-2h sword vs. Axe
-Bow vs. xBow
-Staff vs. Wand

Based on stats and damage, I can't see any reason to use a mace, 2h, bow, or staff. Why do people use them other than because of "looks"?

[zues8844]

If I got a blue mace, I'd rather use it than a green hammer, neh?

If I get a free +9 bow, rather use that than my +0 crossbow, huh?

Maybe it has a nicely worked lic, or amazing stats.

Duh.

[Celtic_Princess]

I'm a little too busy at work to hunt down the post for you but someone did the math on maces vs. hammers a while ago and found that with the lower attack time they actually get more total damage output. Of course, this was done by comparing two NPC weapons and not statted weps.

[drigr_x]

I'm a cleric. I have used hammer until (well, when i get there) level 50. My current hammer is just godly to me, 15 end and 8 base crit (without lic) on a level 40 hammer. But I will be switching over to a mace when I hit 50 and have that same mace for a while. Level 50 mace with 20 end 21 str and 17dex. When I can afford it I will +9 it and possibly use it until level 70. The main thing is that other weapons are faster even though they hit lower. Of course, if it takes you 5 secconds to kill a monster and it has 1k hp and you do 500 every hit and it is 2.5 secconds per hit on an axe and then your 2h does 90 every 1 second the speed doesn't really matter because the 2h takes longer (this is just a dumb example to show a possible reason)

[grannysboy]

Im not exactly about the other classes, but i feel a 2h is almost useless. Yes it has a faster attack rate, but attack rate doesnt matter to fighters. We have the ability to spam all of our attack skills non-stop. This makes attack rate useless.There are a few fighters that will argue that 2h are a good weapon , but i just dont see its value. The only reason ive ever equipped a 2h is because it is the best looking wep for a fighter.

[zues8844]

The price range is also quite nice for them >.>

[HateUchiha]

The benefit is the attack rate.

/thread

[c8itlyn]

Some simple maths can be applied
(Note ~ these values are for NPC white weapons for Lv50 Clerics using only the higher end of the Damage value for examples sake and don't take anything other than this value into account i.e stats, build, DEF of opponent, aim, crit)

After 1 hit on a mob you get:~
Mace = 197 Damage in 1.1 secs (Approx 215 Damage in 1.3 secs)
Hammer = 329 Damage in 1.3 secs (Approx 303 Damage in 1.1 secs)
After 10 hits on a mob you will get:~
Mace = 1970 Damage in 11 secs (Approx 2149 Damage in 13 secs)
Hammer = 3290 Damage in 13 secs (Approx 3037 Damage in 11 secs)
After 50 hits on a mob :~
Mace = 9850 Damage in 55 seconds (Approx 10745 Damage in 1 min 5 secs)
Hammer = 16450 Damage in 1 min 5 secs (Approx 15185 Damage in 55 secs)
After 100 hits:~
Mace = 19700 Damage in 1 min 50 secs (Approx 21490 Damage in 2 mins 10 secs)
Hammer = 32900 Damage in 2 mins 10 secs (Approx 30370 Damage in 1 min 50 secs)

This suggests that hammers way out damage maces over time.
Edit ~ By damage I don't mean the actual true damage of the weapon (the HP that is taken from the mob with each hit) I mean the statistical damage increase that you gain from having the weapon equipped. If your base damage stat is 100 and you equip a weapon with 300-400 damage you get a 300-400 statistical increase per hit.

The same math can be applied to 2 Hands v Axes, Bows v Xbows and Staffs v Wands.

Based on stats and damage, I can't see any reason to use a mace, 2h, bow, or staff. Why do people use them other than because of "looks"?

SO based on these numbers that is a very good question. Why do people bother to use them?

Though At the Lv100 (105?) job change the reasoning behind which weapon you choose can will be much more varied. and the damage over time output of the weapons may become secondary deciding factors to other influences. I cant comment on that however as I know very little about the different job branches.

[numot]

i would tell a secret about the 2H, but that would go against my Bushido.

btw, to poster above, i dont think u can draw conclusions like yours from your "simple maths". unless ran countless trials, what u just posted is doo doo butter.

[c8itlyn]

i would tell a secret about the 2H, but that would go against my Bushido.

btw, to poster above, i dont think u can draw conclusions like yours from your "simple maths". unless ran countless trials, what u just posted is doo doo butter.

Read the post :rolleyes: I eliminated the need for trials by using a constant rather than variables, I explained that in the first paragraph. No matter how many times you run what I have deduced from the numbers I used you will always get the same results. You wouldn't have any reason ever to test what I have outlayed in the above because it is an undeniable fact that those are the answers to the very simple equation of Mace max damage vs Hammer max damage on unstatted white weapons for Lv50 clerics.

[Celtic_Princess]

Some simple maths can be applied
(Note ~ these values are for NPC white weapons for Lv50 Clerics using only the higher end of the Damage value for examples sake and don't take anything other than this value into account i.e stats, build, DEF of opponent, aim, crit)

After 1 hit on a mob you get:~
Mace = 197 Damage in 1.1 secs (Approx 215 Damage in 1.3 secs)
Hammer = 329 Damage in 1.3 secs (Approx 303 Damage in 1.1 secs)
After 10 hits on a mob you will get:~
Mace = 1970 Damage in 11 secs (Approx 2149 Damage in 13 secs)
Hammer = 3290 Damage in 13 secs (Approx 3037 Damage in 11 secs)
After 50 hits on a mob :~
Mace = 9850 Damage in 55 seconds (Approx 10745 Damage in 1 min 5 secs)
Hammer = 16450 Damage in 1 min 5 secs (Approx 15185 Damage in 55 secs)
After 100 hits:~
Mace = 19700 Damage in 1 min 50 secs (Approx 21490 Damage in 2 mins 10 secs)
Hammer = 32900 Damage in 2 mins 10 secs (Approx 30370 Damage in 1 min 50 secs)

This suggests that hammers way out damage maces over time.

The same math can be applied to 2 Hands v Axes, Bows v Xbows and Staffs v Wands.



SO based on these numbers that is a very good question. Why do people bother to use them?

Though At the Lv100 (105?) job change the reasoning behind which weapon you choose can will be much more varied. and the damage over time output of the weapons may become secondary deciding factors to other influences. I cant comment on that however as I know very little about the different job branches.

EDIT: I went back and looked at the quote I'm curious to know why the bolded times are seemingly switched. Why is one counted at 1.3 seconds (a mace, which is 1.1 sec) and the other at 1.1 (the hammer, which is 1.3 sec)

Guess you could say a little more explanation on how the math was worked out would help me understand.
ok ive been working more math and still getting the same results. even using skills and auto attack all assuming 100% accuracy maces will always out dmg hammers if the gap is shorter than 15%. it changes slightly with trip and bleed because you have to go by cool downs instead of attack rate but mace wins out even there. ill try and do bash but more than likely that will require in game testing and i dont have the means to do that so i doubt if ill find anything concrete. but as it stands, if the dmg you do with a mace is within 15% of a hammer then mace is the better weapon for you. i dont think maces are within this number naturally most of the time so it may depend on the stats it has or your build. i can say this though, any blue mace or orange mace because of the 1.0 attack rate will almost surely be better than any green hammer. those maces get 10 hits in 10 seconds while hammers get 7.6 still. so if you go over 20 seconds thats 20 attacks to 15.2.

This shows the mace out damaging the hammer, if you read through the thread theres more explanation. I'm assuming this test is done with NPC weapons so that they're somewhat standardized. The issue is that green weapons, blues and oranges all change that. Not to mention build, mob def, etc.

I have to agree with numot here theres a lot of variables...

[numot]

O RLY!?!?!?


so when i run the test, I wont have to factor in important things like AIm, crit rate, and DMG averages (because u dont hit for the same amount every time obviously), as well as the evasive capability of the target and its defense. Not to mention the build in question. Some 2bit data can't have any relevance to a hands on situation unless u run a lot of hands on trials.

[zoey199]

o-o i use a bk staff b/c of the stats... 40 end 24 dex 40 int...
unless a bk wand user has over like 15 int or something like that on their wand i hit harder o-o.
Really it all depends on the weapon, i'd use a godly over a lame green any day

[c8itlyn]

EDIT: I went back and looked at the quote I'm curious to know why the bolded times are seemingly switched. Why is one counted at 1.3 seconds (a mace, which is 1.1 sec) and the other at 1.1 (the hammer, which is 1.3 sec)

Guess you could say a little more explanation on how the math was worked out would help me understand.


This shows the mace out damaging the hammer, if you read through the thread theres more explanation. I'm assuming this test is done with NPC weapons so that they're somewhat standardized. The issue is that green weapons, blues and oranges all change that. Not to mention build, mob def, etc.

I have to agree with numot here theres a lot of variables...

Ok. The bold numbers are switched so you can compare what the damage is over the same amount of time between the weapons (what damage a mace would do if the attack rate was the same as the hammer and vice versa).

The math is simple. I have taken ONLY the max damage of the weapon (in this instance the damages are Mace = 142~197 and Hammer = 263~329. I used only the max damage of both weapons for ease of comparison (Mace = 197 and Hammer = 329). And simply worked out how much damage would be accumulated after a set amount of hits. Mace ~ 10(hits) X 197(damage) = 1970...... 100(hits) X 197(damage) = 19700.

And your right to assume that the tests are done with NPC weapons but in my post I do say ~ (Note ~ these values are for NPC white weapons for Lv50 Clerics using only the higher end of the Damage value for examples sake and don't take anything other than this value into account i.e stats, build, DEF of opponent, aim, crit).

Thanks for taking the time to ask me about my numbers in a civilised way. Not like the following

Edit ~ These numbers aren't done with me taking the weapons out for a spin. They are taken from the stated values on the weapon. I dont mean to insinuate that the numbers will be the amount of damage done to the mob. Just the base numbers for working out the equation that gives the true damage (by true damage I mean the number you see above the mob when you hit it)

O RLY!?!?!?


so when i run the test, I wont have to factor in important things like AIm, crit rate, and DMG averages (because u dont hit for the same amount every time obviously), as well as the evasive capability of the target and its defense. Not to mention the build in question. Some 2bit data can't have any relevance to a hands on situation unless u run a lot of hands on trials.

I see you didn't go back and re read the post:mad:. I clearly say this
(Note ~ these values are for NPC white weapons for Lv50 Clerics using only the higher end of the Damage value for examples sake and don't take anything other than this value into account i.e stats, build, DEF of opponent, aim, crit)

There is no need for a hands on trial because THERE ARE NO VARIABLES. JUST 1 CONSTANT FOR EACH WEAPON.... THE MAX DAMAGE ON THE WEAPON. Im trying to show that the most influential number in the overall equation is way better on a hammer. You can use my :mad:"2 bit data":mad: as a base before you begin factoring in the other things like crit, aim, evade... whatever else.

[fireyair]

C8itlin, what about the aim difference?



Peace:cool:

[c8itlyn]

C8itlin, what about the aim difference?



Peace:cool:

*Jumps up and down*

(Note ~ these values are for NPC white weapons for Lv50 Clerics using only the higher end of the Damage value for examples sake and don't take anything other than this value into account i.e stats, build, DEF of opponent, aim, crit).

Ima gonna edit my original post and make this bit bold lol.

[fireyair]

O.o

Sorries.


Peace:cool:

[c8itlyn]

O.o

Sorries.


Peace:cool:

Ah no worries ^^ you only asked right lol.

[spookyiness]

*Jumps up and down*

(Note ~ these values are for NPC white weapons for Lv50 Clerics using only the higher end of the Damage value for examples sake and don't take anything other than this value into account i.e stats, build, DEF of opponent, aim, crit).

Ima gonna edit my original post and make this bit bold lol.

yes, but the base stat aim/dex of maces is higher than the hammer, so you do get more hits for your dollar vs misses.
if you actually do the test, rather than the math, they are equal - where the hammer causes more dmg per hit, over more time, you get more misses, and the mace offers less dmg, over less time, but with a much more accurate hit-rate.
i've actually tested it before, and for different circumstances, different weps offer different results - a good rule of thumb we used though was in pvp, maces were better, in pve hammers were better, healbot = mace, killbot = hammer.

just because you're using whites, and not taking build into account, doesn't mean the base stats of the weapon are not different, the mace (and the 'faster attack rate' of all the classes) has a higher aim built in

[fireyair]

yes, but the base stat aim/dex of maces is higher than the hammer, so you do get more hits for your dollar vs misses.
if you actually do the test, rather than the math, they are equal - where the hammer causes more dmg per hit, over more time, you get more misses, and the mace offers less dmg, over less time, but with a much more accurate hit-rate.
i've actually tested it before, and for different circumstances, different weps offer different results - a good rule of thumb we used though was in pvp, maces were better, in pve hammers were better, healbot = mace, killbot = hammer.

just because you're using whites, and not taking build into account, doesn't mean the base stats of the weapon are not different, the mace (and the 'faster attack rate' of all the classes) has a higher aim built in

Truth be told, now that I think of it, the aim difference can't possibly overcome the damage difference.


Peace:cool:

[mredlodge]

O RLY!?!?!?


so when i run the test, I wont have to factor in important things like AIm, crit rate, and DMG averages (because u dont hit for the same amount every time obviously), as well as the evasive capability of the target and its defense. Not to mention the build in question. Some 2bit data can't have any relevance to a hands on situation unless u run a lot of hands on trials.

I have done alot of hands on tests and could not agree more. :D

*Jumps up and down*

(Note ~ these values are for NPC white weapons for Lv50 Clerics using only the higher end of the Damage value for examples sake and don't take anything other than this value into account i.e stats, build, DEF of opponent, aim, crit).

Ima gonna edit my original post and make this bit bold lol.

I used to look at this kind of math and believe it myself. Look at Xbows for example. No matter what level, they seem to have more than double damage enhanced or not over a bow of same level or degree of enhancement. I know the descriptions on all the weapons are decieving but take them out and attack the same target and look at the actual damage. Then plug them into the same formulas and you will understand what numot is talking about. It won't be just a little different, it will surprise you. :)

[mredlodge]

Truth be told, now that I think of it, the aim deifference can't possibly overcome the damage difference.


Peace:cool:

Aim is not the key...it's actual damage to a real target.

[c8itlyn]

yes, but the base stat aim/dex of maces is higher than the hammer, so you do get more hits for your dollar vs misses.
if you actually do the test, rather than the math, they are equal - where the hammer causes more dmg per hit, over more time, you get more misses, and the mace offers less dmg, over less time, but with a much more accurate hit-rate.
i've actually tested it before, and for different circumstances, different weps offer different results - a good rule of thumb we used though was in pvp, maces were better, in pve hammers were better, healbot = mace, killbot = hammer.

just because you're using whites, and not taking build into account, doesn't mean the base stats of the weapon are not different, the mace (and the 'faster attack rate' of all the classes) has a higher aim built in

I'm not trying to do any of that stuff. Simply put, the damage that the hammer can do over a given amount of hits is better than the mace BEFORE you take into consideration anything else. That is what I said I had done. Just looked at the max base damage that is stated in the weapons description. It's all well and good saying that I haven't factored in aim or crit or def or whatever else but the fact is I wasn't trying to. I didn't want to. That's not what I was trying to show.

Besides the fact that the slower weapons have a Higher CRIT which I think can be considered as a welcome substitute for the slightly lower aim. When you add all the other possible factors in then you have to take into consideration things like a T1 Aim scroll to even up the Aim on the hammer to match the maces is only 100c whereas if you wanted to match up the damage and crit of the mace to the hammer then your gonna need a 200s ish T3 STR/CRIT pot.

Edit ~ Also with a hammer you would would have to have a whopping 30% miss rate without getting a single crit before the mace catches up.

[firebolt126]

The biggest difference of any weapon I can think of is the fighter 2h sword. They're almost completely useless compare to an axe(skill spamming) dmg and cannot do what the sword+shield combo can do. It may be cheap, slightly faster than the axe, and higher aim, but that does not affect the usefulness of that weapon.

[universalmaster001]

dont insult the mighty broadswords*runs up and cuts you in half* okay to put an end to this disscusion let me say this it would take months or longer to get enoughe data and do enough testing to say deffinitifley which is better and btw i do better with 2h swords than i do with axes

[archaedius]

Ready for FiFi's Awesome Opinion? Are Ya? 8D

I Leik Maces <3

In all seriousness..I had a pretty pwnage 6x Hammer, and I now have a decent statted Blue Mace..it kills..faster..and ironically, I have less damage, but I do more damage over time with the Mace..I..think..*brainfart*

I don't care, honestly, I'm Mace all the way now <3

Saying that I have a Godly GM hammer I wanna use xD [For Newbies, a GM didn't give me it, it means Guardian Master - a Boss]

Anyyyway..I'm orf <3

[ah_ikeepsitreal]

Regarding, the mace, 2h, and bow I think the first post in this old topic maybe useful.

http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196908&page=3


Ironically I agree that the 2h sword is rather useless to a certain degree. However, I also think its uselessness depends on a fighter's build. For instance, I can't fathom a fighter using this build: but for a fighter using full spr build or spr and dex 1:1 can easily be deadly with the 2h sword because of the increased aim and crit. Whereas using +9 gear supplements the lack of end (def).


Simply put, the damage that the hammer can do over a given amount of hits is better than the mace BEFORE you take into consideration anything else.


I agree. Wish Hk's could use both hammer and mace, likewise for -_- Guardian's.

[tamojian]

Regarding, the mace, 2h, and bow I think the first post in this old topic maybe useful.

http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196908&page=3


Ironically I agree that the 2h sword is rather useless to a certain degree. However, I also think its uselessness depends on a fighter's build. For instance, I can't fathom a fighter using this build: but for a fighter using full spr build or spr and dex 1:1 can easily be deadly with the 2h sword because of the increased aim and crit. Whereas using +9 gear supplements the lack of end (def).




I agree. Wish Hk's could use both hammer and mace, likewise for -_- Guardian's.

Aim and crit can be fix with scrolls and SC. Then again, a lot of stuff can be fix with SC...
But yeah, aim isn't a big issue with T3/T4 scrolls. The majority of the mobs/people you hit will have low evasion.

[mredlodge]

All that math is pointless. Have you ever taken any of these weapons out in the field and checked actual damage vs. described damage?

Take any 2 weapons of the same class, level, and degree of enhancement to compare. On the description, the given difference in damage can be 200, 400, even 1k difference. If you were to hit a mob of a similar level to you, do you think the difference in damage is going to be 200, 400, or 1k difference?
Not even close. In fact, I'm almost certain it won't even be 1/10 the difference described on the weapons themselves.


So you have a hammer that says 600 overall damage and you have a same level mace that says 400 overall damage. Let's say you hit a mob with that hammer and do 350 damage with it. If you were to switch to the mace, I would almost be certain the damage would be around 320 or 330. (providing, of course, you have learned the latest versions of both mace and hammer mastery)

I realize you can do all the basic math skills such as adding, subtracting, multiplying, and dividing by looking at all those numbers but it is absolutely useless information when you don't take the def of the mob and other factors into account.

[globule]

All that math is pointless. Have you ever taken any of these weapons out in the field and checked actual damage vs. described damage?

Take any 2 weapons of the same class, level, and degree of enhancement to compare. On the description, the given difference in damage can be 200, 400, even 1k difference. If you were to hit a mob of a similar level to you, do you think the difference in damage is going to be 200, 400, or 1k difference?
Not even close. In fact, I'm almost certain it won't even be 1/10 the difference described on the weapons themselves.


So you have a hammer that says 600 overall damage and you have a same level mace that says 400 overall damage. Let's say you hit a mob with that hammer and do 350 damage with it. If you were to switch to the mace, I would almost be certain the damage would be around 320 or 330. (providing, of course, you have learned the latest versions of both mace and hammer mastery)

I realize you can do all the basic math skills such as adding, subtracting, multiplying, and dividing by looking at all those numbers but it is absolutely useless information when you don't take the def of the mob and other factors into account.

That is pretty true.
Following FlashBoom's mage guide,
on my mage I looked at the MagicMissile skill [so MM[1] MM[2]...]
MM[1] has +6-8 damage with 1.8 cooldown
MM[2] has +29-36 damage with 4.0 cooldown

Math-wise MM[2] should beat MM[1]. as
2 * MM[1] => +12-16 damage is less than MM[2]

In practice this did not hold true.
In practice doing MM[1] twice was getting me a bigger overall damage than 1 MM[2] [and that is same weapon of course].
I was quite surprised and I no longer look at these numbers the same way....

[DangerousSharida]

u know... by the time you guys figured all this out.. im capped.. with my hammer O.o i wanna play a game n have fun not calculate and worry if i wouldnt do 3 more damage with a mace O.o XD

BUT! Hammers are smexy so i m all for hammers

[Temari_and_Gaara]

omg i just had to post (to the person who started this thread) UR SIGNATURE IS SO FUNNY!

i ♥ naruto ^_^

[drigr_x]

Something to do with looks? And I dunno if its just a "general" thing or not but it looks like prestige is gear for a specific weapon.

[philiplr]

For my fighter I get sets of 1h/shield, 2h, and axe for each 10 levels. I had 40's, but sold the axe and 2h. Now I have 50's, 60's, and a lvl70 2h. I buy the 2h's to duel other fighters that are afraid of me, to give them more of a chance so they might actually duel me.

I did some testing on harkans when I was level.. I think 44. With an axe compared to a 1h +9, I killed them about 33% faster, but got hit with 50% more damage. This was as a 2/3rd's STR, 1/3rd END build with +9 chest, shield, and helmet armors. When comparing a 2h, I didn't record damage I took, but it seemed to be around 10% slower compared to an axe.

I did do some testing using different skill combinations using the axe and it is actually possible to do more damage over a period of time to a high defense fighter using very well-timed combinations of skills to stack hit (instead of just spamming everything as quickly as possible, which allows for normal swings to hit simultaneously with certain skills). It was not easy to get the timing right with an axe though. I haven't tested with a 2h, but if there is ANY benefit to a 2h compared to an axe, perhaps it's easier to stack with and might end up doing more damage than spamming with an axe (to high defense targets such as +9'ed fighters and bosses).

At the very least though, the lower cost leads to better stated +9 2h's selling for far less than badly stated axes. Killing 10% slower to have better stats and to save some gold might be a good alternative for some fighters if it's all they can afford.

[numot]

Regarding, the mace, 2h, and bow I think the first post in this old topic maybe useful.

http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196908&page=3


Ironically I agree that the 2h sword is rather useless to a certain degree. However, I also think its uselessness depends on a fighter's build. For instance, I can't fathom a fighter using this build: but for a fighter using full spr build or spr and dex 1:1 can easily be deadly with the 2h sword because of the increased aim and crit. Whereas using +9 gear supplements the lack of end (def).



I agree. Wish Hk's could use both hammer and mace, likewise for -_- Guardian's.

I hope no one does....i like being unique. 2H ftw


no build is perfect. you will always have a weakness.

[gargschaos]

At level 50, a +9 2H had just enough aim to prevent me from needing an aim scroll in 60 abyss whilst the axe still 'missed'. Theres just one minor example.

[cercia]

As someone who is in the process of doing the math, here's the formulas and notations I have:

DPS = Damage per second
DPH = Damage per hit
APS = Attacks per second
Crit = decimal form of the percent of crit (ie, 5% = 0.05)
Free = Free stat Str
End = Free stat End
Enh = Enhancement damage bonus
Mas = Mastery damage bonus
Str = Strength (base strength + all strength from gears, but no free stat Str)
r = relationship between damage and defense
Rate = Attack rate
Dmg = damage on the weapon (without enhancement bonus)
Def = target's defense (no free stat End)
f = faster weapon
s = slower weapon

1 - DPS
DPS = DPH * (Crit +1.00) * APS

2 - DPH
DPH = ((Str + Enh + Mas + Dmg) r Def) + (Free - End)

3 - APS
APS = APM / 60

4 - APM
APM = (60 / Rate) + 1

So, that probably isn't very useful. But, anyone with simple algebra should realize that in order to see which outdamages the other, then all you need to do is set the DPS of the faster one to be equal or greater than the slower one, resulting in this equation:

DPHf * (Critf +1.00) * APSf >= DPHs * (Crits +1.00) * APSs

Now, we start getting some interesting things here. Firstly, you'll notice we can do something about the damage - we can isolate it, resulting in the equation:

DPHf / DPHs >= ((Crits +1.00) * APSs) / ((Critf +1.00) * APSf)

This is how the value of 86.5% was determined for Maces/Hammers - by simply plugging in the values for Crit and APS, you can come to the conclusion that the ACTUAL damage dealt by the mace needs to be at least 86.5% of the hammer per hit. If you can do that, then the mace is faster at killing. I believe the 1h and the 2h share the same numbers, as their attack rates are the same as hammers/maces.


The above assumes no missing on either weapon, which can often be accomplished with an easy to get aim scroll.

[c8itlyn]

All that math is pointless. Have you ever taken any of these weapons out in the field and checked actual damage vs. described damage?

Take any 2 weapons of the same class, level, and degree of enhancement to compare. On the description, the given difference in damage can be 200, 400, even 1k difference. If you were to hit a mob of a similar level to you, do you think the difference in damage is going to be 200, 400, or 1k difference?
Not even close. In fact, I'm almost certain it won't even be 1/10 the difference described on the weapons themselves.


So you have a hammer that says 600 overall damage and you have a same level mace that says 400 overall damage. Let's say you hit a mob with that hammer and do 350 damage with it. If you were to switch to the mace, I would almost be certain the damage would be around 320 or 330. (providing, of course, you have learned the latest versions of both mace and hammer mastery)

I realize you can do all the basic math skills such as adding, subtracting, multiplying, and dividing by looking at all those numbers but it is absolutely useless information when you don't take the def of the mob and other factors into account.

Erm was that aimed at me?
If so let me reiterate.
When you are buying a weapon you want it to perform well in all given situations right? Taking into account anything like crit, aim def means that the situations are very varied yes? So if you are going to do all the calculations for all the mobs you will fight for that weapon you will take longer choosing your weapon then you will take to level out of it. As a basis for comparison the easiest and quickest numbers to choose are the ones that don't change. That is the DPS of an unenhanced white weapon (Damage and Hit Rate only) which is also the most influential number and will make the biggest difference in the equation.

If you people want to go and use Aim, Crit, Def, MDef, Build (as well as being very varied some may even use a RNG to ascertain the final figure) then go ahead. I'm not saying that it's the wrong way to go about it, far from it. In fact I agree that it is the right way. What I am saying is it's the long way to go about it. What I do is use my numbers to decide what weapon I am going to choose then I go out and get things like lics and purple boots to increase crit, scrolls to increase stats, buy greens to increase stats, get an enhanced weapon, anything to increase the damage output of that weapon. I haven't wasted my time working it out when I cant be sure how my char will change in gears, buffs, scrolls etc. I say it's just crazy to go any further with the maths than I have for the purpose of choosing a weapon.

Edit ~ Ah.. After looking at my post it seems I may have misled some people with it. I should have also stated that by damage to mobs I don't mean the actual true damage of the weapon (the HP that is taken from the mob with each hit) I mean the statistical damage increase that you gain from having the weapon equipped. If your base damage stat is 100 and you equip a weapon with 300-400 damage you get a 300-400 statistical increase per hit. To save on whitespace and confusion I only used the higher end of the possible statistical increase.

I hope that clears things up and I will edit into the post. :o