More balance please

[Deadmail]

I have played fiesta since two weeks - I dont know - could be three. I am playing MMPORPG to play with each other, but in this game there is a fact, which destroys the balance of teamplay. In my opinion - and that was written in forum and in the head of the most Betatester here: " This game would be really good balanced,if u weak the cleric."
I would try to explain:

"If you are planing to build up a party , of u have simply 1tank, 3dmg dealer and a cleric to get experience like gods.Thats OK - really ok - u easy could fill up party´s with 5 players and the number of gamer is enouth,too...

But if u start a game - you dont know nothing at all about the game... every day i m getting the same question from german players because of my german name.
"Which class is the best one - which is the strongest and which makes most fun? And I have to say:" cleric, but i m sorry " Other questions cut out because they are irrelevant for the discussion)
Why that? Easy - i ve started Fiesta with my meaning of Teamplay. That calls you plan to fight together to get XP - otherwise I would play Offline games if solo was my favorite. But are they all teamable?

Fighter/Archer: sure - everyone who played these chars solo will have ploblems in higher lvl to XP alone(HP Stones and pots are nice O.o) and plan to invite a cleric for heal - totally correct. 100% teamable

Mage: You would experience him very well and get level 20 as fast as possible if u knew about the Power Enhacement and their DRAG&DROP system(not really clear on the first view). After 20 yu are really soloable - but you "must" be really freaky,well prepaired, tricky with kiting and know the spots to do this.
Yesterday i saw one lvl ~30 soloing in cp - respect! 99% teamable

Cleric:In my mind its a general question not just for me - i m really interested in the Gamemade´s thought about that:


" What should a cleric really do in this game? "

Healer or Dmg Dealer?
Team- or Sologame?
With this question you would decide the hole gameplay.

In my point of view a cleric have the task to support and found a party because no one else is a better start of party than a cleric.You hold your party alive and create the possibility for good exerience.
BUT - why should a cleric should do that? He is playing very well solo - just klick a monster and sometimes heal and " Thats it" What should i have to say more? The most cleric doen t know their rule as healer at all. Sometimes they are in party and all the time they get the command to heal... are abused and most logg off?
in theory 80% teamable
in pracise 20% teamable

Yes thats the truth...and i really dont know if this is , what Outspark wants? Thats why these questions about the cleric?

If Outspark really want, that Fiesta should be a "M multiplayer ORPG" instead of a "M soloplayer ORPG" it is really easy to fix. Simply weak the damage table of clerics OR let the player with level20 ChanceJob to be a FIGHT- or HEAL-Cleric with advantages and disadvantages but in the moment this is a All-In-One-Char.

I knew that large groups of players are thinking the same and I really wouldn t know how much players finished lvl 20 without working in party, anyway...

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Please make comments on my post and hold this problem alive to get a better teamplay!!!

[Deadmail]

lalalala bumped :p

[zarlok]

Kiting mobs is highly dangerous when they are much higher than you, which is what that mage was doing in CP, probably with stacked speed potions. You screw up just a hair and you are dead and it takes like a minute to kill something. You really have to be a "master clicker" LOL.

But I'm lost as to what you are trying to find out here. You ask about grouping and then you laucnh into a discussion of various classes solo/grouping ability. A party only really needs a cleric +4 whatever else.

[xTiaNx]

Well, I don't know about other clerics (because there's no reason for two clerics to be in the same party), but personally, I heal more than attack in a full party.

[Deadmail]

could u say me pls which class are u playing? ;) @zarlok

[xTiaNx]

Oh, sorry, I'm a cleric :x

[kerriedoo]

Clerics can be treated badly
if u dont res in time
ure called names ppl always want a cleric i train alone i like to fight not jus heal and be abused

[Deadmail]

@Tian then u re 1:10 handsome clerics who do that

[Nephthys]

I don't really understand what you are asking either. Also, you're saying weaken the cleric, but I have a level 31 cleric and I think she's weak enough. It takes me a little bit longer than other classes to solo, and more than just a few heals if I want really good exp. It's a lot easier for me to party and keep the other four people alive, which GOOD clerics instinctively do.

[xTiaNx]

Clerics can be treated badly
if u dont res in time
ure called names ppl always want a cleric i train alone i like to fight not jus heal and be abused

I'm sorry kerriedoo, but in that case you shouldn't have chosen to play as a cleric. The main role of a cleric in a party is to heal, other members are there to deal the damage.

[zarlok]

could u say me pls which class are u playing? ;) @zarlok

I have a 34 lvl mage and 25th level cleric.

[babykitt10]

BTW are you a cleric??
if your not a cleric then y are you saying that clerics should be Nerfed?
I'm a cleric and i know that clerics has the weakest dmgs ingame...
I'd choose to party anytime than to solo...
It will take a wizmage 3 sec to kill a single monster while a cleric takes 15 - 20 secs to kill it...
and yes at lower lvls clerics chooses to solo than to party y? because they can...
if you want to solo then be a cleric.

but suggesting something like nerfing? *tsk tsk*

BTW IMO fiesta is the most balanced game I've ever played....

[ManRooster]

Very nice, very nice indeed.

It'd be flawless except Clerics hit very low.

[Game_Hermit]

It slows down your exp to party on any class before lv20. After 20 i've found grouping is faster with the right group, even on my cleric. Once stuff starts to agro mages and archers have a hard time because they can't kite, fighters have to rest too much and clerics take forever to kill anything. On my bijou cleric alt i spent the first half of the day in luminous stone with a mage and archer. I spent the second half of the day with a fighter in burning hill. Cleric soloing is super slow once you get past the noob levels. My bijous cleric is lv24 and my apoline cleric is 31 and it's already obvious that things will only get slower the higher i get. That fighter i was with yesterday had a normal 2 hand sword and i have a +3 green mace and he could kill one monster and be almost done with his second before i even killed my first. It sure i can solo well, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to do it. It's better for me to be in a group with damage dealers because it takes me forever to kill anything close to my level. Before level 20 i never group on any of my characters, but after 20 i'm grouped most of the time on all of them. Clerics don't need a nerf. You just need to level some before making comments about this stuff.


Well, I don't know about other clerics (because there's no reason for two clerics to be in the same party), but personally, I heal more than attack in a full party.
Boss fights...

[Kholai]

"If you are planing to build up a party , of u have simply 1tank, 3dmg dealer and a cleric to get experience like gods.Thats OK - really ok - u easy could fill up party´s with 5 players and the number of gamer is enouth,too...


Hm. I'd say the best party is actually 1 tank, 2 damage dealer, 2 clerics. The reserve cleric spends their time attacking normally, but can switch to healing as needed. The downside of a single cleric party becomes obvious if and when the cleric dies.



Fighter/Archer: sure - everyone who played these chars solo will have problems in higher lvl to XP alone(HP Stones and pots are nice O.o) and plan to invite a cleric for heal - totally correct. 100% teamable

Archers are actually the best solo characters. Poison, bleed, retreat until DOT is concluded, rinse and repeat. This is probably a good thing, since archers are incredibly unpopular in parties until late in the game. Damage-focused fighters, who give up large amounts of party-usefulness in exchange, actually perform rather well in solo too.


Mage: You would experience him very well and get level 20 as fast as possible if u knew about the Power Enhacement and their DRAG&DROP system(not really clear on the first view). After 20 yu are really soloable - but you "must" be really freaky,well prepaired, tricky with kiting and know the spots to do this.
Yesterday i saw one lvl ~30 soloing in cp - respect! 99% teamable

Kiting is borderline legally retarded for a mage. Spamming level 1 spells and magic burst is a much better tactic, even for solo. Fearing damage is not going to help a mage survive.



So far, every class mentioned can and does solo in later levels, and can and do so much, much faster and easier than a cleric.


Cleric
In my point of view a cleric have the task to support and found a party because no one else is a better start of party than a cleric.You hold your party alive and create the possibility for good exerience.
BUT - why should a cleric should do that? He is playing very well solo - just klick a monster and sometimes heal and " Thats it" What should i have to say more? The most cleric doen t know their rule as healer at all. Sometimes they are in party and all the time they get the command to heal... are abused and most logg off?
in theory 80% teamable
in pracise 20% teamable


And..... Here's where you start getting silly. You know the number one reason why a cleric will party with someone? Because unless they're a tank (bad idea for a two man party), the time it takes to kill one enemy is reduced by 80%. Why? Because it takes a cleric ten hits to kill an enemy a mage of equal level can one-shot. Because that lengthy period of time without a party wastes so much more SP just healing without bashing (which is even more expensive) that the cleric might as well just go home.

Yes, that's the truth... Clerics are simultaneously awesome and terrible at solo. They can solo enemies that no other class their level can - slowly. They can solo for long periods of time - but kill about the same number of enemies in that time.

What else about clerics? Their buffs. Protect makes the difference of 10 effective damage when the cleric is alone. Add one more party mate, and that's 2 more damage that the cleric deals. Add four party mates, the damage bonus is closer to 20, and everyone else in the party gets it too - that's +100 damage.

Yes, yes, it might be impressive to watch that level XX cleric waltz around in an area dominating everything in sight, all by themselves against monsters that make your party-tank weep, that cleric is less efficiently levelling than the clerics smart enough to party. That cleric is using more resources for a lesser reward.


Now, on the other hand, I think that every class should be able to solo, though not necessarily on the same calibre of enemy (mages can mow down entire armies of yellows, yet take on a red and get their hat inserted somewhere that hats should not be inserted, clerics can pretty much solo anything and be guaranteed to take the best part of an hour to kill it....). Clerics and tanks are slow yet efficient, damage dealers are explosive yet costly. C'est la balance.

In theory? 100% soloable. In practice? 5%. There's a reason all bots are clerics, and that reason is that bots don't get bored, and have all the time in the world. People don't, they'd sooner not take an hour to gain 5% TNL.

[joecracker]

my first charter i didnt, but as my mage i learned the greatness of a party!

u cant do it alone, no matter what! maybe on the lower levels, but not higher

[Run34]

Clerics already have the lowest DPS so why in hell would you want to make it so we couldn't train without a party XD sometimes a cleric can't find a party.. and that would make clerics quit.. aka.. destory the game.. no more cleric=no more kqs, no more fast training.... don't mess with cleric ^.^ fine as they are.