Dictatorship and information control

[wunamon]

Why is it that when threads are started that in a way seem to exposes a greedy side of Outspark it is simply closed and eventually removed? This phenomenon makes me feel like i am being told to shut up and play. and if i dont like it i can can leave. I feel that this should not be the case. Upon closer look at these threads that end up being closed the majority seem to be those that in one way or another affect profits and financial interests if Outspark. I kinda makes me wonder what the purpose of the forums are. Is it there to gain traffic for outspark? Is it there for the amusement of members of Outspark relevant staff? I have seen the ToS of outspark countless times and if u read closely u will find out that in between the lines they are effectively telling u that upon their discretion any content they "feel" is subject to removal or closure based on whether or not admistrative members approve of it. It is like saying that "A breach of common sense is a breach of the rules" that is the most ambiguous rule in existense.
Ayway this is my take on the situation.

[luckywalker07]

Ok hate to break this to everyone, but I feel it's necessary to point out the following facts:

1) After reaching a higher lvl, a player is less likely to quit AND more likely spend more on sc Once you pass lvl 70 Outspark has somewhat hooked you, when your a lvl 10 noob, it's easier to say "I'm bored of this".
2) Outspark is a company (a.k.a. a business) that platforms multiple games, with Fiesta and Secret of the Solace being they're most profitable. In order to keep Outspark afloat it most make money, and with 2 out of 5 games being the big money makers, they have to keep higher prices.
3) We're currently in a economic depression. Your not about to get BIG SAVINGS from OS because they need the money. 100's of businesses are declaring bankruptcy. Even the race on Cypion, 3mil sc will be given away, but millions more will be spend just getting 3 players to 105 "quickly".
4) Most gamers with review a game forum before playing a game. Threads get close/removed because they reflect OS in a negative light and that has the potential to lower their recruitment.

You mention "shut up and play". Well I suggest you do it. because complaining on this forum has/will not accomplish anything. I personally don't think there's a "situation" because Outspark is acting like any other company would.

That being said, yeah i wish my sc items were cheaper....

[drigr_x]

Ok hate to break this to everyone, but I feel it's necessary to point out the following facts:

1) After reaching a higher lvl, a player is less likely to quit AND more likely spend more on sc Once you pass lvl 70 Outspark has somewhat hooked you, when your a lvl 10 noob, it's easier to say "I'm bored of this".
2) Outspark is a company (a.k.a. a business) that platforms multiple games, with Fiesta and Secret of the Solace being they're most profitable. In order to keep Outspark afloat it most make money, and with 2 out of 5 games being the big money makers, they have to keep higher prices.
3) We're currently in a economic depression. Your not about to get BIG SAVINGS from OS because they need the money. 100's of businesses are declaring bankruptcy. Even the race on Cypion, 3mil sc will be given away, but millions more will be spend just getting 3 players to 105 "quickly".
4) Most gamers with review a game forum before playing a game. Threads get close/removed because they reflect OS in a negative light and that has the potential to lower their recruitment.

You mention "shut up and play". Well I suggest you do it. because complaining on this forum has/will not accomplish anything. I personally don't think there's a "situation" because Outspark is acting like any other company would.

That being said, yeah i wish my sc items were cheaper....

Uhhhh..... I'm with him... It seems no one has anything good to say about OS nowadays. Really... No one on forums seems to show OS any respect, yet they expect it in return? I remember last summer playing someone made a thread for the sole purpose of congradulating OS and their staff. (btw I believe it was closed still for not having a real purpose) Now all I see are threads about how much OS <pretty word> people off. I think they do a great job. We are playing ONE of their MANY games. They have to pay for these less popular games SOMEHOW. If you think SC is too expensive/not worth it, the answer simple: Don't buy it.

[lordalden]

Why is it that when threads are started that in a way seem to exposes a greedy side of Outspark it is simply closed and eventually removed? This phenomenon makes me feel like i am being told to shut up and play. and if i dont like it i can can leave. I feel that this should not be the case. Upon closer look at these threads that end up being closed the majority seem to be those that in one way or another affect profits and financial interests if Outspark. I kinda makes me wonder what the purpose of the forums are. Is it there to gain traffic for outspark? Is it there for the amusement of members of Outspark relevant staff? I have seen the ToS of outspark countless times and if u read closely u will find out that in between the lines they are effectively telling u that upon their discretion any content they "feel" is subject to removal or closure based on whether or not admistrative members approve of it. It is like saying that "A breach of common sense is a breach of the rules" that is the most ambiguous rule in existense.
Ayway this is my take on the situation.

I just feel compelled to reply to this.

The majority of the threads you make this implication on are closed for ulterior motives almost every time, i.e. flaming, harassing, attacking staff members, or any other range of disrespectful activity and/or actions that disregard the Forum Rules set in place.

To answer your question about the purpose of the forums, it's to discuss the game, the servers, classes, items, and any feature in Fiesta Online, as provided by Outspark, in a respectful and courteous manner. Criticism is welcomed, but there's a difference, a vast difference between criticism and harassment, and that's a line that is too often crossed. Of course we're going to close threads if they can't stay respectful and courteous, we CL's are here to enforce that.

As for invoking that clause of the ToS, I can't really find any point in my posting career when I can say that is the reason for something being closed. It's every time been a breach of proper respect or courteousness, and this comes from before CL's were implemented, all the way till now. That's not to say I couldn't have missed something, but given the trend in why threads are closed I'm going to be the first to say that it's doubtful.

Also, if you would like to critique any of the rules enforced on the Forums, or would like to place suggestions regarding them, it would definately be in your best interest to contact the CSR Department with your concerns and/or inquiries, that's going to be the best place for you to get answers.

Sincerely,

lordalden

Edit: Not my fault you were thinking the same thing as me! XD

[Shadowic2]

The majority of those types of thread usually end up spiraling downward and cluttered with flamish posts, not only towards Outspark, but towards other members of the Community.

Closing or removing these posts are in no way an attempt to stifle or silence anyone, it's simply to enforce the Terms of Service and Forum Rules. And if you read the closing posts to these threads you'll see exactly why they were closed.

The CL team and Outspark have no problem with threads that sort of criticize Outspark or any of the games here, so as long as it's done in a civil manner. We view these threads as feedback and believe it or not, they do help Outspark improve. But if there are too many posts just bashing Outspark/community and not accepting other views, then we'll go ahead and close it before things get out of hand and in an attempt to keep things here a positive environment.

If you ever have a question about the closing or removal of a particular thread, feel free to PM a CL and we'll gladly discuss it with you if we can.


As for that little excerpt in the Terms of Service you've mentioned, I believe that is there so that if Outspark decides they do not want to allow something on their services (Maybe due to something new that was added and they notice abuse, or something that was allowed in the past but has been causing too much trouble) they can do that. That's just my take on it, you may want to consult a CSR for an exact definition on that little quip.

*Edit* Alden, you're haxing mah ninja skills!

[joecracker]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3034/2853280894_3420af8ff3.jpg?v=0


:)

they have the right to close and delete any thread they want

[TheCentrix]

to be honest here I think Outspark cashshop items are cheap compared to other game-publishing companies lol

Ive seen where you have to pay $50 for a stupid mount or $25 for a pet... which btw doesnt do anything, no stats, nothing.

[YoshimaruOrona]

There have been threads that have questioned the game's structure and threads that discuss staff issues/concerns before and remain open.

I recall one thread in particular. I'm too lazy to search it but I remember a part of the threads title: "....and why for hardcore this game is dying" or something to that effect. Massive thread, lot of discussion between the game, OutSpark, and the developers themselves.

The reason it got closed was because one of the OP's major concerns were dealt with when the 105 cap was added. Once it was taken care of, the OP requested the thread's closure.

CL lordalden and CL Celtic_Princess will back me up on those points, since I know for a fact they both observed and participated in that particular thread.

And I only mention it because that thread was closed recently. Maybe 2 months ago? Don't remember the exact date, sorry.

But if you read it through (it's a stupidly long thread), you'll see a number of times where the following are bashed: the game, OutSpark, or OnsOnSoft.

Never got closed though until the OP asked.

[drigr_x]

to be honest here I think Outspark cashshop items are cheap compared to other game-publishing companies lol

Ive seen where you have to pay $50 for a stupid mount or $25 for a pet... which btw doesnt do anything, no stats, nothing.

I was talking about this today with one of my friends. He plays another game that I used to play. Once my premium time (being a "member" vs F2P) I quit that and moved here. This game is so much more fun as a F2P to me than ANY OTHER F2P OUT THERE. He asked me today "If you get the money will you be member again and come back?" I simply said, "No. I can spend $30 to be a member on there for 3 months or I can spend $30 here and get Suits or something for 4-6 months."

[KateeHellen]

WARNING!!! WALL OF TEXT

Hmmm... about main topic of this thread i could write an essay "Outspark and freedom of expression on his game forum between 2007 and 2009", but that will be frankly pointless effort from my side <good thing if 0.009% forum participants will read> but what makes me really sad to watch is how this community become more and more xenophobic toward other MMOs egsisted on the internet nowdays...
Once i thinking as well that Fiesta is one of the bests MMO but then started events witch put that view at the big question and in the end bring me to the point and another MMO where i am now.
I admit, Fiesta was novum when i start <Kingdom Quest idea for example was unique in comparing to other games> but then something start to broken up when comes to overall gameplay.
All i watched was how monsters in areas like Moonlight Tomb or Collapsed Prison become weaker and weaker so in times when u was on the move to other game even lvl 32 without any kind of +X enhanced gear or weapon can easy kill Harkan without burning huge amount of HP pots or stones <my brother (lvl 32 fighter) tested this at fife Harkans in row> but i think ultimate signal that there is something wrong whit game is when Hellga Raids become successfull.
Second subject witch i want little analizing <taking aside all technical issues> is Fiesta graphic in general.
Fiesta is one of the sand box type games <where you can move inside very strict set up map area> and i have no doubt that almost all players saw famous "This area is not accessable".
Except monsters Fiesta nature is plainly dead.
No animals walking on the grass, almost no birds<i saw something what should pose as bird in FoM flying whit hypersonic speed over my head>, rivers or sea are off limit for entry as well < in SoG i saw something what only whit really good dose of imagination can be counted as fishes>.
But on the other hand if you look at Fiesta technical requirements.
They are illogically high if you compare them to Fiesta graphic level but such CPU and memory power is not needed to generate "pretty nature views" but to generate more and more fancy costumes wearing by players.
Right now when i look at all those costumes i have felling that Fiesta is slowly turning in some kind "Comedy del Arte" or creator of those costumes spend too much time in Venice during carnival...
I am not computer graphic expert but even i can imagine that such costumes do not go unnoticed for CPU and each of them must be counted.
To concluded.
Right now Fiesta can defend thier egsistence on top MMO games ONLY because some gameplay content <back to KQ idea>, but in field of graphic <and i believe this is one of the crucial aspect for player to chose game> she fail more and more behind new generation MMOs witch focus large effort at the enviroment graphic.
And to end one more aspect i want to rise.
I read in couple threads about lack of class skills.
Some posters say that quote "Outspark is not obligated to implement any skills over current already implemented egsisting in other versions of Fiesta".
Well, obligated he is not <by the way i find that "Outspark is not obligated..." is used at this forum way too often> BUT let me ask, CAN Outspark really let yourself to sit down and do nothing when comes to upgrade character skills for example?
IF Outspark want to be view as honest and truly devoted to game publisher then staff should move heaven and earth in order to get best possible updates just in order to keep players IN GAME.
Latest clash between Hades_Sith_Lord and CLs over lack of cleric skills is good example how bad in this field situation is.
Can you really blame him that he lost nerves?, i remember countless promises made by staff members about adding new features <about cooking and mini homes i heard since 79 cap rise> but always when comes to crucial updates like bugged skills or lack of them only answer Outspark gives was "Comming soon".
Hmmm... i could dig this theme like F. Castro his speeches but it is time for final conclusion.
Looking at Fiesta as independent observer i must very strong say that Fiesta AD 2009 IS driving throught blind street ended whit red brick wall whit GAME OVER word on him when competition driving faster and faster at large highway of MMO development.
It is sadly for me as former Fiesta player to say but Outspark really miss couple oportunites to leave this blind street and comeback to competition but staff subornes to admiting that they made mistakes during those two years only show me that this was hopeless expectation from my side...

EDIT:
I known that my post turn in plain off topic but to be honest i do not see any base for debate about this topic without risk of ignition heavy flame war, "attack" of some part of Outspark supporters whit only one goal. "Close this thread by all costs" or just pop up so called community leaders <?> and closing up after giving "We are not allowed this..." excuse.
I just saw end post made by GM Silkypico in thread about capped players and i must say that this was only a matter of time when something like this will happend and knowing that soon or later staff will send a official message that thier level of tolerance is at the end and no further critic is allowed here.
*sigh...* I really miss old days community where no one was scarred to say anything just because risk of hurting overgrown ego of someone whit GM sign and compromising his/her own account egsistence...

[wunamon]

i hear what everyone is saying.

[Wolfdevil007]

I agree with most of the post and opinions in here, but also CL should admit -even tho i know they wont- sometimes they do close/erase threads of existence , even if there isnt flaming, no war, no ofensive insults, but contains the tru about outspark behaviour, and thats part of their job, keep players shuted up if it goes against the company.
Manipulation of Information i shall call it.

[drigr_x]

I agree with most of the post and opinions in here, but also CL should admit -even tho i know they wont- sometimes they do close/erase threads of existence , even if there isnt flaming, no war, no ofensive insults, but contains the tru about outspark behaviour, and thats part of their job, keep players shuted up if it goes against the company.
Manipulation of Information i shall call it.

I was agreeing with you until I got to that part...

[Wolfdevil007]

i think they do, as well been withness of it, there was even a thread where one of the CL asked who could bring some prooves about what we were claiming, as soon i said i could and would be a pleasure to, they not only closed it, they deleted it, when it had NO flaming, no war, no ofensive contains, it just had to prooves about Favoritism, anyways that was only 1 of the thousands of Threads that has been closed to keep people shutted their mouths, once and again, they manipulate information, and let the rest read what they want, and if it goes out of their hands, is just erased of the history records

[drigr_x]

Then why didn't that peron make a thread with their proof?

[Wolfdevil007]

becuase the person was withness of favoritism, and he didnt have the guts to post it, so when the CL asked for prooves -in a sarcastic way asking for some imposible request- i told him, that i have prooves and to let me post them, 3 minuts later the Thread was simply deleted from the historial

[drigr_x]

I have seen OS take critism more than once and have seen them called out countless times... Untill you can proove they play favorites, I'm done arguing with you.

kthnxbai

[Wolfdevil007]

i have the prooves but OS wont let me show it, and i have done reports about it, Yes about Silkypico favoritism, as well actions against players that are Fan of Dakkon, if you want me to turn this into a flamable thread or let you listen what you wanna hear, you are wrong, we are all humans, and favoritism is so evident, so far in Teva, it really is.

Kthnxbai ;)

[Kizuku]

I have a solution. We'll cause a mutiny, kill all the staff and hire PERFECT human beings. IT'S THE PERFECT PLAN! It's what you all want, after all, isn't it?

[Shadowic2]

We actually do not delete threads unless they are some sort of Spam bot advertisement, user spam, or if it's requested by the OP. Usually if you see a thread disappear it's been moved to a place to be reviewed by the Staff for violations.

When we remove a thread, there is always good reason for it. It has nothing to do with favoritism or some conspiracy to keep things from you guys. We don't play favorites, and neither do the Staff.

The thread you described sounds to me it was removed probably due to Blacklisting. If there are screenshots you want to share that could be showing anyone in a negative light, whether that be a Staff member or a fellow player, that needs to be taken up privately with Outspark, not publicly on the forums.

There are several reasons why a thread will be closed or removed that doesn't involve Flaming and such. Many of those can be seen in the Forum Rules.

As I said before, if you ever have any questions about a thread that has been actioned, please feel free to PM one of us about it.

[drigr_x]

I have a solution. We'll cause a mutiny, kill all the staff and hire PERFECT human beings. IT'S THE PERFECT PLAN! It's what you all want, after all, isn't it?

Sarcasm or not... Thats not really cool.. Or funny...

[yourmojo]

Admin brown-nosers have figured out that creating spam/flames in a thread they don't like will cause it to be closed and forgotten with little to no punishment on their accounts.

[j0hnny_tsunami4116]

There have been threads that have questioned the game's structure and threads that discuss staff issues/concerns before and remain open.

I recall one thread in particular. I'm too lazy to search it but I remember a part of the threads title: "....and why for hardcore this game is dying" or something to that effect. Massive thread, lot of discussion between the game, OutSpark, and the developers themselves.

The reason it got closed was because one of the OP's major concerns were dealt with when the 105 cap was added. Once it was taken care of, the OP requested the thread's closure.

CL lordalden and CL Celtic_Princess will back me up on those points, since I know for a fact they both observed and participated in that particular thread.

And I only mention it because that thread was closed recently. Maybe 2 months ago? Don't remember the exact date, sorry.

But if you read it through (it's a stupidly long thread), you'll see a number of times where the following are bashed: the game, OutSpark, or OnsOnSoft.

Never got closed though until the OP asked.


random but definition of OP please?

[Wolfdevil007]

in the thread i mentioned before, was about Favoristim in Teva , And the very selective way Silkypico reactions, i have done the reports as well i got no answer answer beyond the -repeatly answer- where they tell you they will take actions, like showing no interest about it.
in the mather of the prooves i got about favortism of banning NONE cs Users inmidiatly and the CS users even after showing prooves of braking ToS , they havent gotten a single day of jail or penalty, I spoke about this in the thread, yet there was not a single blacklisting, just got deleted because i said i had the prooves and gladly would show it to everyone.

[CSR_Joker]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3034/2853280894_3420af8ff3.jpg?v=0


:)

they have the right to close and delete any thread they want

LMAO

this is hilarious! nice pic Joe! lol

[YoshimaruOrona]

random but definition of OP please?

Original Post or Original Poster (Person who started the thread), depending on the context of the sentence xD

[Wolfdevil007]

Anyways keep trying make an Elephant fly is just imposible, good luck with the Thread, as well with the Manipulation of Info ^^

[KateeHellen]

Anyways keep trying make an Elephant fly is just imposible, good luck with the Thread, as well with the Manipulation of Info ^^

Well in 1989 no one expected that couple years later Soviet Empire will collaps, however sometimes even something what might look impossible at the beginning might happend.
But let us look at this thread... off topic forces are on the move <sadly lead by one of the staff representative> and soon or later this thread will be turned in to meaningless debate giving CLs green light to him closed down...

[CSR_Joker]

in the thread i mentioned before, was about Favoristim in Teva , And the very selective way Silkypico reactions, i have done the reports as well i got no answer answer beyond the -repeatly answer- where they tell you they will take actions, like showing no interest about it.
in the mather of the prooves i got about favortism of banning NONE cs Users inmidiatly and the CS users even after showing prooves of braking ToS , they havent gotten a single day of jail or penalty, I spoke about this in the thread, yet there was not a single blacklisting, just got deleted because i said i had the prooves and gladly would show it to everyone.

We have responded to similar allegations in the past and I'm pretty sure this will also be ignored again but for the sake of new readership here goes......

CS (or cash shop for those who are wondering) has no effect on applying penalties, you can ask many players. What we do behind the scenes is not something we advertise. Penalties are handled in a private manner between Outspark staff and the users in question. These issues will remain private and will not be discussed on the forum. The public is not aware of the information we have during the investigation(s) and they do not know what penalty was assessed.

Jumping to conclusions is a dangerous game, yes even if the parties involved are saying nothing was done, they may be telling you this on purpose, you don't know what was done so please consider this factor as well.

These matters again are PRIVATE. We have our processes and guidelines and we apply them on everyone, no exception. You need to trust the system. I'm going to leave it at that.

Enjoy your weekend everyone!
Joker

[Kizuku]

Sarcasm or not... Thats not really cool.. Or funny...
I know, I know. I have a bad sense of humor, however, it honestly seems like what half these accusers want. No one ever seems to let Outspark make a mistake and it really makes me mad. I didn't really do a good job of saying where I stood on the issue by being sarcastic, but I pretty much completely agree with your first post on here. A lot of the people on here don't give these hard-working people the recognition they deserve and just would rather treat them like enemies.

[Hades_Sith_Lord]

you know why we dont believe in private stuff? because player with heave spark cash use, at least most of them have special care, and no matter how bad they do, they wont be banned, or punished, and it will be nice that CSR joker coudl explain us all why you focus on making this game so unplayable for non heavy cash shop users..
doing things on public makes the things clear for all, and eventually OS may get our trust again, so far i may we all can see just preferential treatment for preferred players, and the worse part giving the players a very unbalanced game, where is very curious that the most spark cash consumer class have almost all balance or overpowered, fighters

and you may i ask if i have proofs?
yes i have a GM insulting players and it hadn being banned, even if he/she have a **** star name
Or one of your players of the month sharing accounts, i still see him on game =)

i have all the screenshots to backup this, but they never worked if i send them to CSR thing

[silksilk]

All i gotta say is this thread right here, you wanna see control and dictorship lol here it is to the fullest, some of you may not read the entire thing but scan through and read silkys comments and player rebuttals, why was this thread closed again????????


http://outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205324

[lordalden]

All i gotta say is this thread right here, you wanna see control and dictorship lol here it is to the fullest, some of you may not read the entire thing but scan through and read silkys comments and player rebuttals, why was this thread closed again????????


<Removed>

No, the matter was explained by Silky with mention of the information backed in logs primarily, and what DID happen in the thread you're wanting to redirect to is a case of lashing out at the Staff.

You were given a way to report your discontent or even report misconduct on the part of Staff Members. This information when investigated I can tell you will almost immeadiately be reported to the individual or multiple individuals' supervisors.

This sort of thing is not an issue to keep re-hashing under the belief the thread was closed arbitrarily. You can read the reason it was closed as posted by Silky if you can provide a link, and I would ask that you no longer bring this up in way you did so there.

Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.

Sincerely,

lordalden

[silksilk]

i dont think so buddy this **** has gone on for too long.

If the GMs can disobey there own ToS how can they tell the players to abide by it. Almost like crooked cops.


He gave a bad name to a Player that pays his salary and then lied about it. The players must know about this ****.

[wunamon]

nice. i like this. Keep the contributions coming. Please do well to avoid violent speech ok.
anyway it seem some people dont get what this thread is all about. I pls advise that you take ur time to read and understand the purpose of the thread. If it seems ambiguous pls let me know so i can elaborate further. I am saying this because the way things are going i am afraid that my thread will be closed down.

By the way what do u think of my sig. It is simple but fits my character a lot :D

[KateeHellen]

@Alden.
Did you read carefully last post made by GM Silkypico?
He give VERY CLEAR signal that time of free speech here comes to end and makes me really sad to see that you contributed in this movement as well.
Let me ask you.
IS this green name witch you have really so precious for you that you turn blind eyes over some very alarming signals coming from staff side?

But to be honest... i ask myself why i do even bother to fight again Outspark windmills?
I am no longer Fiesta player so i should have not a spark of interest what will happend whit her...
But Fiesta will always have place in my memory as my first ever MMO witch introduced me to world of Online gaming.

[lordalden]

@Alden.
Did you read carefully last post made by GM Silkypico?
He give VERY CLEAR signal that time of free speech here comes to end and makes me really sad to see that you contributed in this movement as well.
Let me ask you.
IS this green name witch you have really so precious for you that you turn blind eyes over some very alarming signals coming from staff side?

But to be honest... i ask myself why i do even bother to fight again Outspark windmills?
I am no longer Fiesta player so i should have not a spark of interest what will happend whit her...
But Fiesta will always have place in my memory as my first ever MMO witch introduced me to world of Online gaming.

He did not give a clear signal of anything you're implying here, not in the least bit, and nor am I 'helping that message'. If that was the case, I'd arbitrarily close threads. I by all means ask you to look through my post history and report to the CSR Team any inconsistencies with my activity on administration of threads. I'm not above being punished for doing something I'm not supposed to.

As for the thread that is in all liklihood being referenced here, that thread was closed due to Staff Harassment. I can go into that thread, and multi-quote, copy and pasty everything Silky said, as well as go through his post history and send you that as well(even though you have access to that) if you're still unconvinced of him having said anything like that.

Also, the color of my name or the implications of the duties I uphold do nothing for my sense of clarity or the like. If there's something I disapprove of I don't go to the forums to harass members of the staff or the forums. I file my reports privately to the CSR desk, the same way all users should, but most don't.

I've said this time and time again, reporting this stuff to the CSR Desk is your first and best option, hands down, and period. If you don't for whatever reason you wish to come up with, at that point, it becomes a personal responsibility.

I'm not forcing you to stop that report, nor is any member of the Staff, and nor do I seek to infringe upon a persons' ability to criticize or discuss something, so long as it abides by the rules I am tasked to enforce. If I was going to do that, I wouldn't venture into the discussions and involve myself in them in the first place.

So to recap, I'm going to tell you guys this, and I would like it if you would please take it into further consideration: Your criticisms are welcome, your thoughts and suggestions are welcome, but they need to abide by the forum rules, and if you have something you want to report, it needs to go to the CSR Team. The CSR Team will be the ones who give your reports to where it needs to go.

Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.

Sincerely,

lordalden

[fireyair]

@Alden.
Did you read carefully last post made by GM Silkypico?

I know I did, and your accusations are totally baseless.

He give VERY CLEAR signal that time of free speech here comes to end and makes me really sad to see that you contributed in this movement as well.

Obviously, it wasn't THAT clear. As a matter of fact, I've seen several Nostradamus followers that make these sorts of "obvious" interpretations. Perhaps you would be so kind as to explain how you managed to derive these facts from his posts.

Let me ask you.
IS this green name witch you have really so precious for you that you turn blind eyes over some very alarming signals coming from staff side?

What the hell are you trying to do? Are you actually accusing a CL of corruption? In case you didn't realise, this is just a game. I think you've been watching too many conspiracy theorist films.

But to be honest... i ask myself why i do even bother to fight again Outspark windmills?

...What kind of a simile is that?

I am no longer Fiesta player so i should have not a spark of interest what will happend whit her...

So keep out. It's not that difficult, just follow the yellow brick road.

Blah blah blah, my replies in bold.


Peace:cool:

[Hades_Sith_Lord]

i thou that a community lear was the one choosen by the community to represente us, not the emissary of the law to silence our ideas.. nothing personal lord, but i think your work should be to look up for community improvement..

[lordalden]

i thou that a community lear was the one choosen by the community to represente us, not the emissary of the law to silence our ideas.. nothing personal lord, but i think your work should be to look up for community improvement..

If you are wholly dis-satisfied with what I do I by all means encourage you to file a report to the CSR's regarding my legitimacy or the like. As I've said in an earlier post, I'm not above punishment for actions that do not reflect what I am here for.

Although, for what it's worth, I try to remain objective, learn about both sides of a problem and try to inherently improve upon an idea when and where I can. If that too is wrong by your book, I encourage you also to send me a Private Message on the forums with your feedback regarding my activity or your thoughts on my activity.

I can't promise I'll change based on your feedback, but I will definately give it the consideration it is due. I try to help others, and that includes correcting information that may not be necessarily true, keeping the forums in a friendly manner, and discussing with you guys certain problems you see(so long as they remain forum-friendly).

I also take any feedback the players may have, including suggetions for the games, forums, and otherwise, and process it properly to the Outspark Staff. Any legitimate concern I see I flag down a Staff Member regarding, and any private message with concerns for a system in place will get the same treatment.

[fireyair]

i thou that a community lear was the one choosen by the community to represente us, not the emissary of the law to silence our ideas.. nothing personal lord, but i think your work should be to look up for community improvement..

I rather not have our administration selected by the community. In real life, we don't vote for cops, and there's a reason for that.



Peace:cool:

[Myn19]

I rather not have our administration selected by the community. In real life, we don't vote for cops, and there's a reason for that.



Peace:cool:

but we do vote for political leaders,does that mean we should have a say on GMs instead?:D
Game and life aren't the same thing...

[KateeHellen]

@Fireyair.
No i do not watch conspiracy movies but i can read words between words.

What I will not tolerate is staff harassment.

For me definition of staff harassment can be very easy stretch at all posts witch will putt Outspark staff in negative light.
We can argue till end of the world if he mean what he mean but everything is only a matter of interpretation.

CLs issue.
I presumed that Community Leaders were elected both by Outspark staff <first and second "generation of CLs> or by forum participants to become bridge between staff and game community but what we see now ?
CLs become nothing more as another staff members.
Thier work now have nothing to do whit what should be but do i have any right to judge them?... of course No.
They simply chose stronger side because that was thier own choice.
Beside corruption have many "faces", physical< financial corruption> or moral <greed, jealousy, hate, racism> and in many cases we do not noticed when we become corrupted by something negative because we do not see any changes in dayly behavior but people who will observe us will noticed that something was changed.

About windmills... apparently you did not bother to read classic literature <too much text?> but "Fight whit windmills" is a synonym of fighting pointless battles whitout chances of success.

So keep out. It's not that difficult, just follow the yellow brick road..

Do not worry i will leave you in your "prefect" game but before i go i must say that one day you might wake up in shattered world full of ruins of once great game and you will be alone because there will be no one who will lisening to you and help you because if something will go wrong staff will be first who will "disappear in mysterious circumstances"...

[Hades_Sith_Lord]

lol silky is the leader of player kicking, he/she can say anything and insult players and wont be punished, and if you say something is either staff harassment or blacklisting, so no matter what staff can do whatever they want..
If community leaders are not what that name means, then they should be called, community pacifiers, or OS order squad, or something that suits they actually work now

[Celtic_Princess]

Of honourable reckoning are you both;
And pity 'tis you lived at odds so long.

Katee, you should know that we do what we do because we want to help, we want to make things better, and this is how we feel we can.

We were chosen based on our ability to help and our level of activity. Back when you first met me, you used to support me. Has your opinion of me suddenly changed now that the color of my name has as well? I should like to think that it hasn't, but it wouldn't be the first time. Silencing you is not our goal, and Outspark is not the enemy. We, as CLs, try to improve communication between the two in addition to making sure that your concerns are voiced. We are players that want to give back. This is my first MMORPG too, this is my home. I want to see it become the best that it can be.

A lot of these threads that get 'shut down' are shut down not because of what they say, but how they have been said. Just like I would close a thread if a player is harassing another player, I would close a thread if a player is harassing a staff member. They are human as well and their job title doesn't exclude them from having feelings.

Even as a CL its unnerving to step into a thread thats already filled with hate and agression, to wonder if you should voice a response or not and risk taking heat because your views might be different. To know that your views are not going to be taken as your own unless you post on an alternate account. We're people, and yeah...I have been hurt by some of the things that get said to me simply because I'm a CL. It doesnt stop us from doing our jobs though, and we come back each day to try and make a difference. I put a lot of time, and a lot of effort and a lot of who I am into doing this. If you don't believe me ask my boyfriend, whos had to delay going out to a party because someone needed help, and who's had to listen to me talk about why something upset me on here. Or ask my parents, who saw me near tears from frustration and lack of sleep the night before my final exams because I had a lot of material to cover...but someone was starting flames here. Ask my boss, who allows me to use the work computers to keep up with the forums all day. I make a concious choice to be here as much as I can to help. Is it so unthinkable to ask that people post in a respectful tone?

Hades. I assure you that one of Alden's biggest goals is to improve this community and improve your enjoyment of the game. He works incredibly hard to make sure that your ideas and your concerns are heard. All of the CLs care about the community, after all we're part of it. I'm nothing more than a player, and my concerns are often similar to the ones voiced on the forums. It is part of my job to read the forums and keep them in good order so that those ideas can be easily accessible to staff.

What it boils down to is that this is not a situation where we should be standing on different sides of the fence. We are not each others enemy. You have to understand that in some situations Outspark really cannot do anything without OnsOn. Its not an excuse, its a reality. In other situations, they really do try to listen and they do try to make it better. They can push really hard to get your ideas through to OnsOn...and OnsOn can still say no. It doesn't mean that they didn't try.

Quoted from Serrics Siggy: "Do not raise your voice, improve your arguement".

Yelling, arguing, harassing, etc. It doesn't make any situation better...it only creates negative feelings. So lower your voices and say what you have to say.

[wunamon]

All i am trying to portray in this thread is that Outspark must wake up. Since it is not allowed to reference other games in outspark forums i will use my favourite soccer team as an example of what the future for outspark will be if they dont review the way they run things. Arsenal F.C is an English club that has been in the Barclays Premiere league for a good number of years. They are fun to watch and despite their downfalls, fans have always stayed true to the Arsenal course. In recent years though their standards are falling and they have started to lose revenue. The adopted a method of maney making by raising young player to stardom from nothing and then selling them for good amount of cash. This idea was good for Profit (short term). what they failed to notice was that by getting rid of the young stars for money, the teams performance kept reducing and they have not won any trophies for close to 5 years now. Fans (fiesta players) made it known to the Arsenal administration (outspark) that they needed to "buy" players and stop selling them in order to win trophies that will generate more income (long term) than selling players for money (short term). they refused and for the first time in a long history Arsenal FC were struggling to stay in the top 4. This past season was the straw that broke the camel's back. A huge chunk of Arsenal fans have officially quit the club, another section are boycotting the club till they see change. This action from the fans has caused sales of tickets and team items such as jerseys and boots to drastically drop impacting on the mainstream profit generator of the club. Now the Owner's of the club are nearing bankruptcy and are at the brink of selling.
Now u may be asking, what has this got to do with outspark? the answer is everything. Only third party stakeholders (that includes all players of outspark games) can really assess a situation and give u an unbiased assessment. Usually pride gets in the way of seeing this truth. Most of the administrators of Outspark including GM's are degree holder and even more. Why would they take the advice of 15- 20 yr olds who have less of a fraction about what they know? One thing they fail to remember is that knowledge can be sought anywhere even from a student to the teacher. Ancient Chinese scholars studied animals to learn a thing or two about the things they know.
I might seem to Outspark that they have gotten players hooked to fiesta online so they will complain and do nothing about it. I am only saying that it is ok when only a handful complain but when it becomes a regular thing, you are sure to lose the bulk og ur profits from on last mistake. Take a lesson from companies that have gone down this way. EGM (Electronic Game Magazine) and Enron are just a few example that show that outspark is on the same trail to destruction if they dont do something. We all know foesta is their biggest income earner and so by saving it they might save themselves.

Note of advice to Outspark: Go check the forums for when Outspark did something to fix what the community wanted. You will notice that there was an increase in sales from cash shop and increase in new members and also there were lots of good and appreciative remarks made.
Therefore I plead with outspark to think ahead and stop thinking about their profits and do their best to keep players they already have and in the process gain new ones.

[silksilk]

Too many words very little explanation.


I do not know where the the staff was harassed in that thread, Silky just made a mistake and hes not man enough to admit to it, rather he gives us some out of this world reason about him being harassed???????????????????????????

I lol'd

all anyone wanted was an apology. but no. and you the CLs are making no sense, you are just throwing big words and twisted grammar to make it seem like you are saying something, but you really aren't, Read silkys posts then read the players post, YOU tell me where the players were wrong?????????????

[wunamon]

silksilk are u referring to my reply or to Celtic_Princess. Pls try to quote who u referring to ok :). But to play devils advocate, i think harassment will be paramount to interpretation.
Just like spanking in some cultures is discipline and in others it is abuse. Everything is based on interpretation. so if he says he was harassed it only boils down to your word against his. :D. read my reply at the top hehehe. It is long but it is worth the read.

[silksilk]

silksilk are u referring to my reply or to Celtic_Princess. Pls try to quote who u referring to ok :). But to play devils advocate, i think harassment will be paramount to interpretation.
Just like spanking in some cultures is discipline and in others it is abuse. Everything is based on interpretation. so if he says he was harassed it only boils down to your word against his. :D. read my reply at the top hehehe. It is long but it is worth the read.

lol when i started posting your post wasnt up still =P so you had finished makign yours before i hit send

[KateeHellen]

@Celtic.
My conclusions comes from rater long time of observation how behavior of <at least> some of CLs turned from community supporters to unofficial staff members whit power to shut down threads.
Your post is something what i once hoped to achieve from side of official Outspark members.
Believe me, if Outspark will show in the past more willingness to lysening our concerns i highly doubt if we will be in current situation where insults are way too easy thrown up in both directions.
I really admire your determination to move on as CL against all odds because i known myself how stressful can be real life... and i doubt if i will be in your position i will be so strong to continue.
*Sigh...* in this forum is way too much bad water between community <and i known that my post does not help to clear her as well> but like i post in other thread, Fiesta was also my first MMO and despite fact that i moved to other game i really do not want her to fail.
My post might sound harsh and sometimes hurt but like my "sensej"* who introduce me to world of political opposition say "Truth might sometimes hurt but can be as well beginning of the new journey to our inside to examin if everything is really so certain as we assume".
At that time i was very pro govermental and deny any informations that there is something wrong around me untill he opened my eyes.
Please do not treat my post as attack at you <or any other CL> but as voice of concern about way witch this forum and game overall is moving.
I really wish you all best despite all issues :).

*I am not from Japan but i love that term :)

[Celtic_Princess]

To the OP: I understand that you, and several others, are unhappy with how certain things are being done. Could you be more specific? What would you like to see improved? Do you have any suggestions or ideas on how to improve them?

Its one thing to say 'I'm upset', its another to say 'I'm upset, here's why'. Telling us why you're unhappy gives us an area to focus on, a starting point so to speak. :)

[Hades_Sith_Lord]

we have a lot of ideas, u can check them here at my post,
http://outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205569
but so far not even CSR joker can hold his word and speak with the community, he just ran, like the rest of the staff did.. they cant face the truth or speak with it, its like something forbidden around here..

[wunamon]

To the OP: I understand that you, and several others, are unhappy with how certain things are being done. Could you be more specific? What would you like to see improved? Do you have any suggestions or ideas on how to improve them?

Its one thing to say 'I'm upset', its another to say 'I'm upset, here's why'. Telling us why you're unhappy gives us an area to focus on, a starting point so to speak. :)


this means that u read my most recent reply. I am only one person and so my complain wont mean anything unless others contribute their grievances. That is why i opened this thread so that others con contribute. I just hope they are polite with their statements but i cant blame them because they have been ignored so much they feel that their efforts are useless and it seems only hate posts are those that attract attention.

[Celtic_Princess]

Actually Joker just replied in that thread. But look at your posting style, you insult him even in here. Would you want to engage in a conversation with someone who is publicly bashing you before you even get there? I would rather listen to the people and the posters who take the time to post respectfully and thoughtfully. But hey, thats just me.

For a while your first thread on the 95 cleric skill was going along those lines, flaming started and the thread was closed. You were encouraged to create a new one to continue the topic. No one silenced you, they stopped the flames and asked you to continue your conversation.

Wunamon, I understand that, but you've also posted this because you have some reason to be upset. Others should be heard as well yes, but you may have something to say that others are experiencing too.

LordAlden has a suggestion thread up. I can understand being hesitant to post in such a large thread as it can be easy to be overlooked. I welcome your suggestions and ideas, if you feel you are not being heard in your thread PM me. I'll come check it out, discuss it with you, and bring it to staff attention if need be. Its what we're here for.

[Shadowic2]

If you have any feedback for us or Outspark, go ahead and share it. Even if no one agrees or supports your opinion, it doesn't mean that your opinion isn't less valid or important than anyone else's ^^. If there's anyway we can improve we're all ears.

*Edit* Rookie is stealing my ninja skills too <.<

[wunamon]

@ Celtic_Princess:Thanks.
@ Fiesta community: let ur grievances be heard in a more polite mode.

my problem is that i love fiesta online so much i wont want it to go down under because administration is too proud to take advice from players and concerned stakeholders to improve game and add features that will make the game better than the other versions. Outspark can request from the publisher custom features that can set them apart from other versions. Also the dealing with core issues behind closed doors without giving players any information is not acceptable. we are very much as part of this company as the C.E.O. We dont want to know the finances of Outspark and how many members they have got. we just want an open ended relationship between Us (game community) and Outspark. Let us know why we cant have a skill. let us know why we cant have a feature found in other versions. At least if we know these things we wont waste our time in discussions which will bear no fruit.
Thank u :D

[grummin]

For me definition of staff harassment can be very easy stretch at all posts witch will putt Outspark staff in negative light.
We can argue till end of the world if he mean what he mean but everything is only a matter of interpretation.

Indeed it is- and it's pretty easy to interpret what is meant by the declaration "staff harassment" when that statement is made by a man in a thread where someone has declared to him "You, sir, are a liar."

About windmills... apparently you did not bother to read classic literature <too much text?> but "Fight whit windmills" is a synonym of fighting pointless battles whitout chances of success.

The actual term is "tilt with windmills," where "tilt" is an archaic term for what is more commonly called jousting. And back to that "it's all about interpretation" part, Don Quixote's battles were not pointless because they were against real foes who were invincible.

The battles were pointless because Quixote would, in modern terms, be called "legally blind." He couldn't see clearly a foot past his own nose. The monsters (which were, literally, windmills) he thought he was fighting didn't exist outside his own mind.

So with regard to interpretation, it would be fair to say that anyone who is "tilting at windmills" is making up nonexistent foes to fight.

Perhaps you should stick with similes from Le Morte d'Arthur rather than tilting at windmills. At least King Arthur's enemies were real rather than existing only in his fevered imagination- the only place where Don Quixote's windmill "dragons" existed.

[Hades_Sith_Lord]

me being bashed celtic? i think you need to read again, and start to think that community leaders are not here to oppress players, but to help them express problems to higher instances, like CSR gms or anyone.
Im not insulting anyone, im just pointing why they hadn respond, and if the lack of interest on achievement of promises is an insult then thats not my problem,and i cant say who is the other person because thats blacklisting and this will be closed again, and no matter what, that gm wont be punished

[Celtic_Princess]

So, to make sure I understand you...you'd like to see more interaction from staff. More communication about what we will and will not be getting?

That seems fair enough. Usually, if a skill is omitted its because of a decision made by the developers based on how it affects game balance in their version. Why its such a pain here is because (like others have said) we are not the original version. Things that have already been changed or tweaked affect game balance in a way that the Korean devs don't always see or understand. For example, the level 95 skill that Hades created a thread about seems crucial in our version. In theirs, PvP really isn't that big...so it may have seemed unnecessary.

I will be happy to put that concern in front of staff.

[salman.pisces]

GMs or CLs,please reply to these queries(maybe many queries:D).

Please also note that that following my advise below will surely make Outspark more profitable and would ultimately benefit players as well.Outspark will have more staff(better salaries) and thus have better customer support.Please note that I have never purchased sparkcash even though I have played Fiesta for almost a year.

1)What is OnsOnSoft's relation with Outspark?Does Outspark have to ask OnsOnsSoft for permission before altering Fiesta or does Outspark have to ask OnsOnSoft to do the updating itself?Or is Outspark completely independent of OnsOnSoft?

2)Why are Premium Items not tradeable?Wouldn't it be better for Outspark to make them tradeable too?Many kids dont have access to credit cards and SparCash cards are not available everywhere.I mean if a guy trades a sparkcash item for in-game currencey,wouldn't it be more profitable for Outspark?I mean,People still do that!They give people ingame cash and ask them to gift then SparkCash items in return(though its EXTREMELY risky for the person giving the in-game money)

3)Wouldnt it be better if SparkCash items were cheaper?(Personally,I have never bought SparkCash)What if the Permanent Briefcase was half its price?I'm pretty sure more people will buy it because it would be very cheap then.And Outspark might even get more more profit.There might be players out there who think that that Briefcase is worthless since it it is very expensive.

4)Why doesn't Outspark sell ingame currency to get real money?Many games do that and i'm sure Outspark should do that too.No,it wont make things difficult or unfair for other players.The SparCash items have already done that.Maybe the spammers have done that aswell(They do offer to do this).I'm pretty sure this is more profitable for Outspark and would surely get rid of those spammers.

5)Why can't players change their e-mails?Many players have reported problems about tons of spam mail after using the 'free sparkcash' service and can't do anything about it.I for one get spam mail(though VERY little).But its not just any spam mail.Its about ADULT stuff.You know,18+, drugs, etc. Outspark says it tries to keep our members safe.I'm pretty sure that the spam I get is NOT 13+.Event though it is possible that I get it because of using some other service (which is not Outspark's fault) I do blame Outspark for this since I cannot change my e-mail in Outspark's database.I'm 16 and I am pretty mature but there are kids out there(13 and below) who get such mail because of Outspark and are in danger(though I might be exaggerating when I say 'danger').Allowing players that is pretty simple i think.Almost all sites allow that.

In my opinion,tradeable SparkCash goods will definitely make Outspark very profitable since players will know that they have the chance to get such items afterall.

No offence:cool:

[salman.pisces]

The suggestion thread really works!Although its possible that my suggestions were put into effect because many people might have asked for the same thing.What I don't like about the suggestions is that people ask for stuff like 'please give more skills/better skills/more hp/etc to xxx class but hey,thats just my opinion.

no offence:cool:.(again)

[Hades_Sith_Lord]

what i mean Celtic with all the respect, is more consideration from staff to players, and together build a better game were all can enjoy and earn money as any company does.

what i think here is needed more is transparency, being honest and in resume, keep the all the community informed and consider us i maybe not decisions, but with some game content yea, if we are so proud to be a different version then lets make this one a better one than the others, not the worse one, the shame of the Fiestas versions..
and for what i mean with clerics missing skill, the developer decided to keep it as skill because its at the official site, or international site of Fiesta, and i dont think its 2 much to ask staff to look into it

i dont ask any extras, at least not yet lol.. just what its meant to be in game

[wunamon]

GMs or CLs,please reply to these queries(maybe many queries:D).


2)Why are Premium Items not tradeable?Wouldn't it be better for Outspark to make them tradeable too?Many kids dont have access to credit cards and SparCash cards are not available everywhere.I mean if a guy trades a sparkcash item for in-game currencey,wouldn't it be more profitable for Outspark?I mean,People still do that!They give people ingame cash and ask them to gift then SparkCash items in return(though its EXTREMELY risky for the person giving the in-game money)

3)Wouldnt it be better if SparkCash items were cheaper?(Personally,I have never bought SparkCash)What if the Permanent Briefcase was half its price?I'm pretty sure more people will buy it because it would be very cheap then.And Outspark might even get more more profit.There might be players out there who think that that Briefcase is worthless since it it is very expensive.

4)Why doesn't Outspark sell ingame currency to get real money?Many games do that and i'm sure Outspark should do that too.No,it wont make things difficult or unfair for other players.The SparCash items have already done that.Maybe the spammers have done that aswell(They do offer to do this).I'm pretty sure this is more profitable for Outspark and would surely get rid of those spammers.


In my opinion,tradeable SparkCash goods will definitely make Outspark very profitable since players will know that they have the chance to get such items afterall.

No offence:cool:

I see some of ur suggestions but upon a closer look most of them are a bit impractical. Selling permanent storage for half price is a good idea. Not for their profits. I agree with ingame trading of store items to those of us that are not so fortunate to afford or have access to them. I mean it will stimulate richer players to buy more SC items and encourage non SC players to farm and develop their prod skills more in order to make money. ( do say that it is will cause a rift in the game economy. It ownt even graze it. People sell godlies for 30g+ when it is not enhanced and even more when it is +9)it has always been if u have money and u think it is a fair trade, u buy. if not u move away. After all the seller bought it with real money and as such can decide what price to put on it. They would want to sell so they will do well to make the price as reasonable as possible. this will effectively reduce complains of people running off with people's money and not delivering. (if outspark want to argue that it will cause an imbalance, they can make allow only certain key items such as 50% exp cards and 50% hp+sp extendors not to be tradeable but their lower versions will be.
Outspark selling in-game money for real money will greatly undermine the purpose of farming and gathering. so there i cant agree with u.

[Celtic_Princess]

what i mean Celtic with all the respect, is more consideration from staff to players, and together build a better game were all can enjoy and earn money as any company does.

what i think here is needed more is transparency, being honest and in resume, keep the all the community informed and consider us i maybe not decisions, but with some game content yea, if we are so proud to be a different version then lets make this one a better one than the others, not the worse one, the shame of the Fiestas versions..
and for what i mean with clerics missing skill, the developer decided to keep it as skill because its at the official site, or international site of Fiesta, and i dont think its 2 much to ask staff to look into it

i dont ask any extras, at least not yet lol.. just what its meant to be in game

Hades, what I bolded needs to go both ways. Its not just respect from company to customer its respect from person to person. I can quote you many a post where the things said to or about staff members have gone above and beyond any flaming that players have said about each other.

Several of you have asked for more communication from staff, and I will present the lack of communication as a concern in my reports. But remember that the site you are referencing is not specific to this version. It is linked to all of the versions of Fiesta, as such some of the content and information is innaccurate. We may receive skills later, with a higher cooldown or lower damage or we may not receive them at all. Thats not really Outsparks call. OnsOn determines what skills they want to send over based on how their game is balanced.

Like I mentioned earlier what works right on paper for them may not work right in practice here. Your feedback threads let us know what changes need to be made to make the game better. That feedback is reviewed and then passed on to OnsOn. From that point, it is still OnsOn's decision whether or not they want to release that content to this specific publisher.

To Salman- I cannot answer all of your questions, as I do not know the answer to some of them myself. The subject of making SC items exchangeable in game has been floating around for a while.

However I can answer one of them. OnsOn is a Korean based company that developed Fiesta. They hold the rights to license the game to any one that they wish. Outspark is a privately held publishing company based in Cali. They have a contract with OnsOn for the rights to publish Fiesta in the US, Mexico, and Canadian regions. However, OnsOn retains the right to alter the game however they see fit. In many cases that includes changing weapon powers, withholding skills, etc. Usually their changes reflect what they feel needs to be changed in order to balance the game. The problem with that is that so many things have been changed already that their game is not an accurate reflection of ours.

OnsOn provides the patches and bug fixes for this version of Fiesta. The problems are investigated and then sent to OnsOn. They come up with a fix to the problem and its sent back to Outspark to be put in during a patch. This is why fixes on problems can take a while sometimes.

[zues8844]

Boston cream pie.

Quite frankly, I've given up on trying to change things at OS. Just lay back and enjoy the random comments. Takes a lot off your mind :3.

Dum dee dum :)

[Hades_Sith_Lord]

sorry to keep the bothering but, as u seen the post has been there for a while, what about someone telling us, like Hey im the (no matter who) in chargue and ill look into it, or it wont come out, we will inform you or something, what its really important here is to keep the community informed and let us know we are being heard, so far even with all this complains i just see CLs working, and i dont want to insult you but you are not the ones to gives us answers because u cant, those things are ment for GMs or higher, they should took 1 minute and say something to us, but real, no fake promises or evading repetables answers like " we wont say anything until next patch"

[wunamon]

The suggestion thread really works!Although its possible that my suggestions were put into effect because many people might have asked for the same thing.What I don't like about the suggestions is that people ask for stuff like 'please give more skills/better skills/more hp/etc to xxx class but hey,thats just my opinion.

no offence:cool:.(again)

i looked at ur character list and i see that ur highest character is currently below lvl 60. therefore u are enjoying the fiesta at its best so u might not see what the others are complaining about. Imagine having to grind 300,000,000 when the highest mob can give close to 20k. the good thing about us complaining now is so that by the time u reach lvl 70+ the game will be much bearable. people are asking for skills that should be in the game already not conjuring some dreamy skill that doesn't exist.

[lordalden]

Seems I was offline a bit longer than what I wanted. Time to play catch up!

GMs or CLs,please reply to these queries(maybe many queries:D).

Please also note that that following my advise below will surely make Outspark more profitable and would ultimately benefit players as well.Outspark will have more staff(better salaries) and thus have better customer support.Please note that I have never purchased sparkcash even though I have played Fiesta for almost a year.

1)What is OnsOnSoft's relation with Outspark?Does Outspark have to ask OnsOnsSoft for permission before altering Fiesta or does Outspark have to ask OnsOnSoft to do the updating itself?Or is Outspark completely independent of OnsOnSoft?

Not 100% sure on the details, so I can't really answer that.

2)Why are Premium Items not tradeable?Wouldn't it be better for Outspark to make them tradeable too?Many kids dont have access to credit cards and SparCash cards are not available everywhere.I mean if a guy trades a sparkcash item for in-game currencey,wouldn't it be more profitable for Outspark?I mean,People still do that!They give people ingame cash and ask them to gift then SparkCash items in return(though its EXTREMELY risky for the person giving the in-game money)

Great reasons for this actually. This kind of system super-inflates economies, and makes the rarity of certain cash items non-existent. Essentially there's more to it than that, but let's just say it's not a good idea. Some games are literally closing down due to a similar cash shop accessability.

3)Wouldnt it be better if SparkCash items were cheaper?(Personally,I have never bought SparkCash)What if the Permanent Briefcase was half its price?I'm pretty sure more people will buy it because it would be very cheap then.And Outspark might even get more more profit.There might be players out there who think that that Briefcase is worthless since it it is very expensive.

They're already quite a bit cheaper than what other gamves offer. That's not to say there can't be improvements(there can), but such a thing needs more support behind suggestions to get somewhere. Support in this scenario doesn't mean pitchforks and torches(although I doubt that was your intent =P).

4)Why doesn't Outspark sell ingame currency to get real money?Many games do that and i'm sure Outspark should do that too.No,it wont make things difficult or unfair for other players.The SparCash items have already done that.Maybe the spammers have done that aswell(They do offer to do this).I'm pretty sure this is more profitable for Outspark and would surely get rid of those spammers.

Many of these games make near to nothing in profits because of this system, hence why their games sink. That's the beauty of F2P vs. P2P. F2P has to make money somehow, or it crashes. Some companies have interestingly enough forgotten that.

5)Why can't players change their e-mails?Many players have reported problems about tons of spam mail after using the 'free sparkcash' service and can't do anything about it.I for one get spam mail(though VERY little).But its not just any spam mail.Its about ADULT stuff.You know,18+, drugs, etc. Outspark says it tries to keep our members safe.I'm pretty sure that the spam I get is NOT 13+.Event though it is possible that I get it because of using some other service (which is not Outspark's fault) I do blame Outspark for this since I cannot change my e-mail in Outspark's database.I'm 16 and I am pretty mature but there are kids out there(13 and below) who get such mail because of Outspark and are in danger(though I might be exaggerating when I say 'danger').Allowing players that is pretty simple i think.Almost all sites allow that.

This is something I have communicated with members of the Staff based on past incidents with this as a security issue, as then and now I can see it a legitimate concern, but things like this may take some time should it have been chosen to be implemented.

In my opinion,tradeable SparkCash goods will definitely make Outspark very profitable since players will know that they have the chance to get such items afterall.

No offence:cool:

Replies in bold my good man/woman.

sorry to keep the bothering but, as u seen the post has been there for a while, what about someone telling us, like Hey im the (no matter who) in chargue and ill look into it, or it wont come out, we will inform you or something, what its really important here is to keep the community informed and let us know we are being heard, so far even with all this complains i just see CLs working, and i dont want to insult you but you are not the ones to gives us answers because u cant, those things are ment for GMs or higher, they should took 1 minute and say something to us, but real, no fake promises or evading repetables answers like " we wont say anything until next patch"

I want to ask you a very important question here, and I mean no offense in it, none at all. Regardless of how important this all is to you, if they're going to report it or try to get things taken care of one way or another in the methods they must use, then I must ask:

What does it matter if the person in charge tells you or not? Just because they're in charge of specific features doesn't mean them saying it'll be looked into is going to have any more of an effect than any other employee telling you the same thing. My apologies, but this seems like to me an egotist approach.

As for the last part, I'm going to say something very important. A company cannot legibly communicate everything, or near everything with their consumers as often as the consumers would like. There are reasons for that, but first off:

You certainly don't hear about this new product coming out from your favorite fast food restaurant every time but do you call them and complain about that? Probably not.

The above isn't meant to sidetrack your concerns, and so I'll get right back to them. Maybe the Staff should communicate more with the players, but I'm going to be 100% clear with you. No matter how much you bring it up on the forums, that's not going to make a vast difference. They read the forums but that's not where they want this kind of feedback.

If you want the difference to be made, make it by using the proper channels. Give them feedback where they want it at, the CSR Helpdesk. It's there for Technical Support and misbehavior reports, yes, but it's also a Feedback gathering area.

As some users have mentioned, they must read this, it's part of what they do during their daily routine(whatever on earth THAT may be), so rather than risk you getting in trouble for statements that are less than friendly, I again encourage you guys to use the proper method of showing your concern.

There's more I hope to accomplish in this thread than simply sound like a broken record(I'm sure I do), so I'll continue to monitor this thread and reply as I am able to. I will hereby not moderate this thread myself as with as much involvement as I have shown it would be a conflict of interest and my decision may be made via personal bias.

Sincerely,

lordalden

[fireyair]

Do not worry i will leave you in your "prefect" game but before i go i must say that one day you might wake up in shattered world full of ruins of once great game and you will be alone because there will be no one who will lisening to you and help you because if something will go wrong staff will be first who will "disappear in mysterious circumstances"...

Again... TOO many suspense movies for you, can't you even realise how idiotic you sound?

Please leave me to my "prefect" world, Nonsensical rattling is quite irritating.


Peace:cool:

[Kurayamiblack]

I'm personally quite satisfied with Outspark and Fiesta as a whole. Most of the changed I propose may be radical in terms of the effort that may be needed to impliment them but as fars as money, rules, and other stuff go, I believe they've done a good job.

My only issues are with:
1) Class balance in PvP
2) Map Set-up
3) Overall, just making things make more sense (like why is Sand Hill so underused as a location to recieve quests, yet it has a Warp scroll? and Why are Sand Hill and Goblin Camp neighboring locations of the same desert but with not linking gate?)

As far as SparkCash goes, I'm happy with it. I don't HAVE to pay for it even if they do sort of nudge me towards the idea the farther I level up. I've seen games that make you pay a predetermined amount of money every month. Fiesta is FREE and the money you do spend on it is optional AND even the amount of money you spend is optional as well! The way I see it, instead of forcing you to pay money just to have the game, Outspark lets you choose when you want to give them money, how much you're willing to spend in 1 spending session, and choose what you're going to get back for spending that money. Unlike WoW which I'm pretty sure doesn't give you anything for your monthly payments besides 1 more month of playing, Outspark gives you unlimited play time with in-game bonuses for choosing the pay! Now THAT's an MMO and a company I can get behind!

Basically, we decide wether we appreciate Outspark enough to pay them money. That's part of what makes Fiesta great. When people complain about sparkcash, as far as I'm concerned I SHOULD be hearing "I feel comfortable giving my money to these people. OUTSPARK YOU ROCK! Here's $25, and thanks for the Crit suits I get for doing this" but instead, all I hear is "OMG! I love crit suits more than I appreciate what Outspark has done for us players! Lower your prices b/c I don't love you enough to spend money as long as I can the pwn noobs harder". =/

Sorry, I think I got a bit emotional just now '_'

[zizzister]

Katee, you should know that we do what we do because we want to help, we want to make things better, and this is how we feel we can.

We were chosen based on our ability to help and our level of activity. Back when you first met me, you used to support me. Has your opinion of me suddenly changed now that the color of my name has as well? I should like to think that it hasn't, but it wouldn't be the first time. Silencing you is not our goal, and Outspark is not the enemy. We, as CLs, try to improve communication between the two in addition to making sure that your concerns are voiced. We are players that want to give back. This is my first MMORPG too, this is my home. I want to see it become the best that it can be.

A lot of these threads that get 'shut down' are shut down not because of what they say, but how they have been said. Just like I would close a thread if a player is harassing another player, I would close a thread if a player is harassing a staff member. They are human as well and their job title doesn't exclude them from having feelings.

Even as a CL its unnerving to step into a thread thats already filled with hate and agression, to wonder if you should voice a response or not and risk taking heat because your views might be different. To know that your views are not going to be taken as your own unless you post on an alternate account. We're people, and yeah...I have been hurt by some of the things that get said to me simply because I'm a CL. It doesnt stop us from doing our jobs though, and we come back each day to try and make a difference. I put a lot of time, and a lot of effort and a lot of who I am into doing this. If you don't believe me ask my boyfriend, whos had to delay going out to a party because someone needed help, and who's had to listen to me talk about why something upset me on here. Or ask my parents, who saw me near tears from frustration and lack of sleep the night before my final exams because I had a lot of material to cover...but someone was starting flames here. Ask my boss, who allows me to use the work computers to keep up with the forums all day. I make a concious choice to be here as much as I can to help. Is it so unthinkable to ask that people post in a respectful tone?

Hades. I assure you that one of Alden's biggest goals is to improve this community and improve your enjoyment of the game. He works incredibly hard to make sure that your ideas and your concerns are heard. All of the CLs care about the community, after all we're part of it. I'm nothing more than a player, and my concerns are often similar to the ones voiced on the forums. It is part of my job to read the forums and keep them in good order so that those ideas can be easily accessible to staff.

What it boils down to is that this is not a situation where we should be standing on different sides of the fence. We are not each others enemy. You have to understand that in some situations Outspark really cannot do anything without OnsOn. Its not an excuse, its a reality. In other situations, they really do try to listen and they do try to make it better. They can push really hard to get your ideas through to OnsOn...and OnsOn can still say no. It doesn't mean that they didn't try.

Quoted from Serrics Siggy: "Do not raise your voice, improve your arguement".

Yelling, arguing, harassing, etc. It doesn't make any situation better...it only creates negative feelings. So lower your voices and say what you have to say.



I do the exact thing(even though I am not a CL.) I help those in their time of need XD

[wunamon]

What does it matter if the person in charge tells you or not? Just because they're in charge of specific features doesn't mean them saying it'll be looked into is going to have any more of an effect than any other employee telling you the same thing. My apologies, but this seems like to me an egotist approach.

1) simple. If a junior nurse tells u that u are going to be alright after a surgery, will u be relaxed as compared to the doctor? It is not egotist i just feel tha people feel a bit mire secure when a person in authority gives assurance. The presidents P.A might know what will happen next in the economy, but no one is going to pay the P.A any heed unless it is the president himself. There is a reason for that and it ain't egotism. :)

As for the last part, I'm going to say something very important. A company cannot legibly communicate everything, or near everything with their consumers as often as the consumers would like. There are reasons for that, but first off:

You certainly don't hear about this new product coming out from your favorite fast food restaurant every time but do you call them and complain about that? Probably not.

Actually a consumer has the right to inquire whether or not a product is coming out if they see that product in the same franchise but in a different area. An example is KFC in South Africa. When hot spicey wings was started in the US and UK branches, South African costumers where no offered that option. The few that had been to the US and UK found out and then requested it. KFC in order to cater their costumers needs introduced it first as a sample then as a trial and then monitored the impact on sales and costs. As long as there are other versions of fiesta online with features more than ours people are going to request for those services and it is up to outspark to tell us whether we will receive it or not and explanations as to why it is so. If u check the US trade laws as well as international trade laws (outspark is trading a service so they fall under that law) u will see that every company or institution is obligated to inform their stakeholder and shareholders of decisions that affect them directly. Outspark is in clear violation of that. We are not asking for the accounts of outspark, that is shareholders business. we wanna know more about what we are dedicating our time and sometimes money into.

The above isn't meant to sidetrack your concerns, and so I'll get right back to them. Maybe the Staff should communicate more with the players, but I'm going to be 100% clear with you. No matter how much you bring it up on the forums, that's not going to make a vast difference. They read the forums but that's not where they want this kind of feedback.


There is a reason why people post their grievances here instead of sending a ticket. Nothing is been done about it. So if outspark claims they receiving no such complains it is because CR department is overlooking some complains. even still if Outspark really want to improve their service they can pay just 2 people to look through the forums for threads that are supposed to be in CRS section. All major companies and businesses that want to stay in business do. If outspark keeps acting on their own they "will" end up as EGM did. Go read about them. A sad story there and i see that as an eminent future in this game i love.

If you want the difference to be made, make it by using the proper channels. Give them feedback where they want it at, the CSR Helpdesk. It's there for Technical Support and misbehavior reports, yes, but it's also a Feedback gathering area.

Answer as above

As some users have mentioned, they must read this, it's part of what they do during their daily routine(whatever on earth THAT may be), so rather than risk you getting in trouble for statements that are less than friendly, I again encourage you guys to use the proper method of showing your concern.

Answer as above

There's more I hope to accomplish in this thread than simply sound like a broken record(I'm sure I do), so I'll continue to monitor this thread and reply as I am able to. I will hereby not moderate this thread myself as with as much involvement as I have shown it would be a conflict of interest and my decision may be made via personal bias.

Sincerely,

lordalden

Answers in bold blue

[wunamon]

I'm personally quite satisfied with Outspark and Fiesta as a whole. Most of the changed I propose may be radical in terms of the effort that may be needed to impliment them but as fars as money, rules, and other stuff go, I believe they've done a good job.

My only issues are with:
1) Class balance in PvP
2) Map Set-up
3) Overall, just making things make more sense (like why is Sand Hill so underused as a location to recieve quests, yet it has a Warp scroll? and Why are Sand Hill and Goblin Camp neighboring locations of the same desert but with not linking gate?)

As far as SparkCash goes, I'm happy with it. I don't HAVE to pay for it even if they do sort of nudge me towards the idea the farther I level up. I've seen games that make you pay a predetermined amount of money every month. Fiesta is FREE and the money you do spend on it is optional AND even the amount of money you spend is optional as well! The way I see it, instead of forcing you to pay money just to have the game, Outspark lets you choose when you want to give them money, how much you're willing to spend in 1 spending session, and choose what you're going to get back for spending that money. Unlike WoW which I'm pretty sure doesn't give you anything for your monthly payments besides 1 more month of playing, Outspark gives you unlimited play time with in-game bonuses for choosing the pay! Now THAT's an MMO and a company I can get behind!

Basically, we decide wether we appreciate Outspark enough to pay them money. That's part of what makes Fiesta great. When people complain about sparkcash, as far as I'm concerned I SHOULD be hearing "I feel comfortable giving my money to these people. OUTSPARK YOU ROCK! Here's $25, and thanks for the Crit suits I get for doing this" but instead, all I hear is "OMG! I love crit suits more than I appreciate what Outspark has done for us players! Lower your prices b/c I don't love you enough to spend money as long as I can the pwn noobs harder". =/

Sorry, I think I got a bit emotional just now '_'

From the way u are speaking are definitely a player below lvl 70. therefore u haven't reached the part of the game where u will start to complain. I think u need like 300000exp or so to lvl or 800000. when u get to high lvl where u need 300,000,000exp to get to next lvl i will be here waiting to see u complain how the game indirectly make CS items compulsory. It is up to us higher lvled player to complain to get a change so that u can enjoy. go ask any player who has player for about how hard it was to get from 1- 30. they will tell u 2 weeks constant playing. Now u can do it in a day. I even created an archer and got it to 22 in less than 15hrs to prove a point. if u notice only lower lvl players are fans of Outspark till their eyes open at lvl 70+

[lordalden]

1) simple. If a junior nurse tells u that u are going to be alright after a surgery, will u be relaxed as compared to the doctor? It is not egotist i just feel tha people feel a bit mire secure when a person in authority gives assurance. The presidents P.A might know what will happen next in the economy, but no one is going to pay the P.A any heed unless it is the president himself. There is a reason for that and it ain't egotism.

You bet I'll be relaxed. I've been through that surgery and had that simple staff nurse tell me I was doing fine, and I believed her 100%. She knew more about my recovery and health than I did. The fact of the matter resides is that people are wanting the highest on the ladder to condescend to the lowest on the ladder.

That's some more blunt terminology than I prefer to use, but it's the truth. Quite honestly, it's not necessary. The time it takes for the higher ups to answer you is time better devoted to them seeking a reasonable resolution to whatever problems there may be.

That's why there's a chain of command in the military and in commercial business. The big wigs only come out when it's absolutely necessary, otherwise it is oftentimes percieved as a waste of what could be productive time. Labelling it egotism on the part of the one seeking the person in power is a brash way of putting it, but only being comforted by someone higher on the ladder is a form of self-flattery.

Summary: I'm going to believe the words of anyone who knows more about the situation than me if they're in it. Doesn't matter if they're head of their department or a simple worker bee, they're actually THERE, I'm not. That's their qualification.

Actually a consumer has the right to inquire whether or not a product is coming out if they see that product in the same franchise but in a different area. An example is KFC in South Africa. When hot spicey wings was started in the US and UK branches, South African costumers where no offered that option. The few that had been to the US and UK found out and then requested it. KFC in order to cater their costumers needs introduced it first as a sample then as a trial and then monitored the impact on sales and costs. As long as there are other versions of fiesta online with features more than ours people are going to request for those services and it is up to outspark to tell us whether we will receive it or not and explanations as to why it is so. If u check the US trade laws as well as international trade laws (outspark is trading a service so they fall under that law) u will see that every company or institution is obligated to inform their stakeholder and shareholders of decisions that affect them directly. Outspark is in clear violation of that. We are not asking for the accounts of outspark, that is shareholders business. we wanna know more about what we are dedicating our time and sometimes money into.

This is a bad example actually, and my words touching up on that were what's consdiered a form of a trap in debate. I proposed that knowing full well any reply would be inaccurate. The fact of the matter is that you can't inquire about what you don't know. The KFC in Africa thing is a perfect example. If nothing came out, they wouldn't know what to be outraged for.

Same thing goes here. You don't know what's coming out, neither do I, unless they tell you, so why get angry pre-maturely if you don't know? Is it to just be angry in general?

As far as your interpretations of the law are concerned I'll make no comment. I am not well versed in law, and so have no right discussing it here in the very least, however I am going to say maybe you should re-read Terms of Service and other documents.

There is a reason why people post their grievances here instead of sending a ticket. Nothing is been done about it. So if outspark claims they receiving no such complains it is because CR department is overlooking some complains. even still if Outspark really want to improve their service they can pay just 2 people to look through the forums for threads that are supposed to be in CRS section. All major companies and businesses that want to stay in business do. If outspark keeps acting on their own they "will" end up as EGM did. Go read about them. A sad story there and i see that as an eminent future in this game i love.

I'm afraid I'm not inclined to believe this paragraph. I sure know you can't talk on behalf of others, but given the reluctancy many users show in submitting tickets in the first place, no, nothing can be done when people don't submit tickets.

It's amazing how that works, because I know I've recieved PM's from older and newer users alike who have said "I didn't know I should contact the CSR's about x/y". The only genuine example of what you've described is possibly in the thread regarding the enhancing bug, but even that is actually getting processed, so that becomes a moot point eventually too.

I'm going to say something now, that needs to be listened to as much as you can possible bring it upon yourself to hear out the words of this message.

Complaining all day does nothing when you make exscuses not to submit tickets. You not making tickets is not their fault, that's your fault.

If you want to make a change, and I certainly want you to, heck, I TRY to help with that most of the time, then you need to actually make the right efforts here. You can say it doesn't do any good, but that's just a way to sugar-coat you not actually putting one in. Make the right efforts, then you may get the right results.


Replies in bold.

From the way u are speaking are definitely a player below lvl 70. therefore u haven't reached the part of the game where u will start to complain. I think u need like 300000exp or so to lvl or 800000. when u get to high lvl where u need 300,000,000exp to get to next lvl i will be here waiting to see u complain how the game indirectly make CS items compulsory. It is up to us higher lvled player to complain to get a change so that u can enjoy. go ask any player who has player for about how hard it was to get from 1- 30. they will tell u 2 weeks constant playing. Now u can do it in a day. I even created an archer and got it to 22 in less than 15hrs to prove a point. if u notice only lower lvl players are fans of Outspark till their eyes open at lvl 70+

Wait, so he can't discuss what he percieves as problems legitmately because of his level? You're not helping yourself on supporters here, because regardless of the experience a player may have with something you disagree on by virtue of being those levels, that does not mean they have no experience with it if their levels are not in that range. The arguement of "I've been here longer, you have to be this level" etc., all fail in matters where level is not the true concern or pre-requisite, especially in cases like this.

Also, I was playing back when 59 was the cap, and before the Cash Shop was introduced. I can tell you hours of grinding back then didn't necessarily amount to much(in the 40's), but that's not what makes me a fan.

Summary: Please stop being prejudiced based on criteria that means nothing for the sake of his concerns.

[fireyair]

Ahh, if only we could deal with bureaucracy haters like Louis XIV did.

To the guillotine with them!



Peace:cool:

[wunamon]

Actually they know what to expect from fiesta. there almost 6 different versions of it. Therefore it is not like they sit in their rooms and say to themselves " hey guys why is it that we have wings but we cant fly with them? lets complain about tit to fiesta." they actually see these. Many people knew about the prestige class even b4 the new lvl cap. we know that fiesta has a cooking system. we know that the is a house and furniture feature all of which are not included in this version. therefore by not including it in this version u are bound to get people asking questions.
With respect to the issue of higher ups. It is nice to know that that u trust low level employees. I personally advice u not to do so. They are known to make mistakes. And when they do, high levels are held responsible. There is a reason why they are the doctors and they are the nurses. the doctor is not going to discuss details like that with a nurse unless it is necessary. U gave an example of Military. Do u think that all soldiers are given the same information about the war. No offense to to you :) but information coming from CL is generally considered grapevine (gossip) it is unofficial. If we hear CSR Joker say that every player will get 200 sc on monday we can hold outspark up to the task if they dont deliver. But if you or any CL make that same comment, reasonable players will hold u to ransom unless u make reference to a GM or CSR, no one will take u seriously. I have contacted 20 of my friends to send tickets to CSR's. we will wait and see now.

[fireyair]

Actually they know what to expect from fiesta. there almost 6 different versions of it. Therefore it is not like they sit in their rooms and say to themselves " hey guys why is it that we have wings but we cant fly with them? lets complain about tit to fiesta." they actually see these. Many people knew about the prestige class even b4 the new lvl cap. we know that fiesta has a cooking system. we know that the is a house and furniture feature all of which are not included in this version. therefore by not including it in this version u are bound to get people asking questions.
With respect to the issue of higher ups. It is nice to know that that u trust low level employees. I personally advice u not to do so. They are known to make mistakes. And when they do, high levels are held responsible. There is a reason why they are the doctors and they are the nurses. the doctor is not going to discuss details like that with a nurse unless it is necessary. U gave an example of Military. Do u think that all soldiers are given the same information about the war. No offense to to you :) but information coming from CL is generally considered grapevine (gossip) it is unofficial. If we hear CSR Joker say that every player will get 200 sc on monday we can hold outspark up to the task if they dont deliver. But if you or any CL make that same comment, reasonable players will hold u to ransom unless u make reference to a GM or CSR, no one will take u seriously. I have contacted 20 of my friends to send tickets to CSR's. we will wait and see now.

We also know Fiesta's cap in other games is 129, why not demand a cap raise?

As a matter of fact, many Fiesta fans know the max level is 150, why don't we start rioting to get it now?

The answer is simple: Because Outspark chooses when and how to implement game functions, not us.

Take a look:

Originally posted by Terms of Service

You agree that Outspark owns all rights and interests in the Virtual Assets and retains the absolute right to modify its Virtual Assets. You acknowledge that Outspark has been, is, and will be constantly making changes to its games. You further acknowledge that Outspark can and will, in its sole discretion, modify features, functions or abilities of any element of the game or any Virtual Assets (which may, among other things, make the Virtual Assets substantially more effective or functional, or less effective or functional, more common or less common, or eliminated entirely).

THEY decide what to put in, or take out of, the game. You may make suggestions, but you cannot force your wishes upon any member of the Outspark service team.



Peace:cool:

[wunamon]

I hear u but then it seems that u miss the point here. We are not saying that they should implement features by force. we suggesting them. also if ur read carefully you will realise that there is no clause that states that we cannot inquire from them the reasons for omission of of some game features. these terms and conditions only work when there are still people playing outspark games. the purpose of complains and suggestions as well as criticisms it to enable outspark know what is going on and to do something about it. If not probably u and GM's along with hopeless cases addiction to MMO's will be left playing this game.
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF "WORD OF MOUTH" it can ruin a business and it all starts like this. if they do the right thing they win because we the players will get out friends to join but if they do otherwise well.......

[fireyair]

I hear u but then it seems that u miss the point here. We are not saying that they should implement features by force. we suggesting them. also if ur read carefully you will realise that there is no clause that states that we cannot inquire from them the reasons for omission of of some game features. these terms and conditions only work when there are still people playing outspark games. the purpose of complains and suggestions as well as criticisms it to enable outspark know what is going on and to do something about it. If not probably u and GM's along with hopeless cases addiction to MMO's will be left playing this game.
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF "WORD OF MOUTH" it can ruin a business and it all starts like this. if they do the right thing they win because we the players will get out friends to join but if they do otherwise well.......

Actually, the final clause of the ToS, if I remember correctly, states that any right not given to you in the ToS is hereby reserved by Outspark. That means: if they didn't tell you you can, then you can't.

Also, don't threaten to destroy Outspark by "word of mouth," since neither I, nor any other Fiesta fan, will support your campaign.



Peace:cool:

[wunamon]

Actually, the final clause of the ToS, if I remember correctly, states that any right not given to you in the ToS is hereby reserved by Outspark. That means: if they didn't tell you you can, then you can't.

Also, don't threaten to destroy Outspark by "word of mouth," since neither I, nor any other Fiesta fan, will support your campaign.



Peace:cool:
I will never lead a revolt against outspark. it is not necesarry. Revolution starts with individual resolve. Little by little drops of water will make a mighty ocean.

Wow i just read the ToS again and damnnnnn!!!!! if i read correctly this post is against TOS. Infact any thread that is made with a complaint is against Terms of Service. they even say u cant leave ur account open when u are away. what???? this sooo justifies my thread. Dictatorship.
If i am correct, ToS ultimately implies that "if u have nothing good to say just shut up." The ToS greatly diminishes the purpose of the forums. It is like giving soldiers a tooth pick each to fight a way against aliens form Independence day.
Outspark can effectively ban you for typo's if they deem it inappropriate.


On a personal note who is the lawyer for Outspark? He is a genius. He found the perfect way to shut hater's up. I wanna meet him *looking up at him/her in awe* he /she is awesome.

[Hades_Sith_Lord]

looks like we have a guy here that just want to sit back, dude if you dont like the post dont answer it, u just look forward to minimize player efforts,if there is a rule that says all should bow down and wait for OS to do whatever they want, then it is wrong, and we should be doing something to try fix it, we never try to destroy outspark, they are doing that themselves, and if they are adding a new cap they should do it right.

CL Lord, im not saying that CLs word dont worth, i just meant that if we have a Gms, Csr word it will be at least something because they are employees, and CLS as volunteers cant give info they cant support, i know your possition i have been there

[wunamon]

BY USE OF THE OUTSPARK SERVICE YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU AGREE TO THESE TERMS AND WILL FOLLOW THEM IN THEIR ENTIRITY. YOU AGREE THAT THESE TERMS WILL APPLY TO ANYONE WHO HAS ACCESS TO YOUR OUTSPARK ACCOUNT. THIS INCLUDES ACCESS VIA YOUR APPROVAL, PERMISSION, OR BY OTHERWISE HAVING ACCESS TO YOUR OUTSPARK ACCOUNT OR OUTSPARK ACCOUNT INFORMATION (IN WHOLE OR IN PART). YOU FURTHER AGREE THAT YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE AND LIABLE FOR ANY AND ALL CONSEQUENCES WHICH MAY INCLUDE, (BUT ARE NOT RESTRICTED TO) WARNINGS, SUSPENSIONS OR TERMINATIONS OF YOUR ACCOUNT BASED UPON VIOLATIONS OF THESE TERMS BY ANY PERSON.

Does this mean that account sharing is legal but u cannot complain when something goes wrong?

[wunamon]

OUTSPARK MAY FIND IT NECESSARY TO ALTER, RESET, OR OTHERWISE CHANGE CERTAIN PARAMETERS OF, AN ON-GOING PRODUCT OR SERVICE IN ORDER TO REALIGN THE PRODUCT OR SERVICE WITH MARKET DEMAND. THESE MODIFICATIONS OR RESETS MAY AFFECT IN-GAME ASSETS, AVATARS, IN-GAME PERSONAS OR OTHER ITEMS, AND MAY REGRESS THE PRODUCT OR SERVICE.

THESE RULES MAY BE MODIFIED, AMENDED, OR OTHERWISE CHANGED AT ANY TIME. YOU AGREE TO VISIT THE OUTSPARK SERVICE TO REVIEW ANY CHANGES TO THESE RULES/TERMS WHICH MAY HAVE BEEN MADE. YOU AGREE TO CAREFULLY READ THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS.

This context here effectively supports the notion that players can complain about anything they dont like and that Outspark may implement these demands. If ur fail to notice. "Market" refers to us (game community)
But then i am caught between a rock and a hard place. there are so many laws in fiesta that i dont know what to write and comment about any more. The above statement can be removed at anytime if it inconveniences outspark. therefore something legal can be made illegal instantly at a whim. Now with that said tell me that u don't smell dictatorship here.

How long will my account last since i am evidently in violation of ToS from the beginning.

[lordalden]

I will never lead a revolt against outspark. it is not necesarry. Revolution starts with individual resolve. Little by little drops of water will make a mighty ocean.

Wow i just read the ToS again and damnnnnn!!!!! if i read correctly this post is against TOS. Infact any thread that is made with a complaint is against Terms of Service. they even say u cant leave ur account open when u are away. what???? this sooo justifies my thread. Dictatorship.
If i am correct, ToS ultimately implies that "if u have nothing good to say just shut up." The ToS greatly diminishes the purpose of the forums. It is like giving soldiers a tooth pick each to fight a way against aliens form Independence day.
Outspark can effectively ban you for typo's if they deem it inappropriate.


On a personal note who is the lawyer for Outspark? He is a genius. He found the perfect way to shut hater's up. I wanna meet him *looking up at him/her in awe* he /she is awesome.

Your sense of business is not very keen I can see. Outspark is the bad guy here to you, by virtue of what you've posted. Ever hear of that little clause "reserving the right to refuse service"? Almost every business has this, I don't see you commending the 'dictatorship' of those businesses, so I am curious as to why you'd hold a double standard here.

looks like we have a guy here that just want to sit back, dude if you dont like the post dont answer it, u just look forward to minimize player efforts,if there is a rule that says all should bow down and wait for OS to do whatever they want, then it is wrong, and we should be doing something to try fix it, we never try to destroy outspark, they are doing that themselves, and if they are adding a new cap they should do it right.

CL Lord, im not saying that CLs word dont worth, i just meant that if we have a Gms, Csr word it will be at least something because they are employees, and CLS as volunteers cant give info they cant support, i know your possition i have been there

I understand what you're saying, but have you read what I've said in the past regarding this? The best way to get answers isn't the forums regarding genuine concerns with the goods/services. The Helpdesk is 9/10 times. That is a process that because someone says it does no good, is simply ignored every other time.

If you want to talk to the Staff, contact the Staff. The forums are more of a player on player area. The Helpdesk is for contacting the Staff and the various functions they serve.

BY USE OF THE OUTSPARK SERVICE YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU AGREE TO THESE TERMS AND WILL FOLLOW THEM IN THEIR ENTIRITY. YOU AGREE THAT THESE TERMS WILL APPLY TO ANYONE WHO HAS ACCESS TO YOUR OUTSPARK ACCOUNT. THIS INCLUDES ACCESS VIA YOUR APPROVAL, PERMISSION, OR BY OTHERWISE HAVING ACCESS TO YOUR OUTSPARK ACCOUNT OR OUTSPARK ACCOUNT INFORMATION (IN WHOLE OR IN PART). YOU FURTHER AGREE THAT YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE AND LIABLE FOR ANY AND ALL CONSEQUENCES WHICH MAY INCLUDE, (BUT ARE NOT RESTRICTED TO) WARNINGS, SUSPENSIONS OR TERMINATIONS OF YOUR ACCOUNT BASED UPON VIOLATIONS OF THESE TERMS BY ANY PERSON.

Does this mean that account sharing is legal but u cannot complain when something goes wrong?

Account sharing is not legal. I'm fairly certain you're aware of this, if not, I sincerely apologize. Trying to find miniscule differences and trying to say "because it says here it means its ok" is not going to work.

Edit: So long as this 'conspiracy theory' and 'omg dictatorship' stuff goes on, this remains my last post here and on future such topics. It's becoming crystal clear to me you'd rather find inconsistencies and call them lies than discuss something truly relevant in the game or forums at this point.

[Hades_Sith_Lord]

yea account sharing is illegal but just for some players others that are 'friends' for the staff wont get banned, i have proofs of several heavy users doing account sharing did the report to CSR and never did anything, that's why i don't trust the private messages thing should go public so they cant protect them from being punished

[wunamon]

See exactly the reaction I expected. Can u honestly say that I am wrong to make such a conclusion based on that information.Lordaden i only asked because i have read and re-read the ToS and i see so many conflicting sides to it. I am not starting a conspiracy theory. the title of this discussion is Dictatorship and information control . Dictatorship according to (WordWeb 2005) is defined as a form of government in which the ruler is an absolute dictator* (not restricted by a constitution or laws or opposition etc.) Most at times when GM wants to emphasis a point they usually refer to a part of the ToS. which is simply what i just did.
In relation to reference to reserve rights, i am aware that other businesses have that used in their ToS also. That reserving the sole right to something is not a business concept but actually a legal issue. Believe me when i tell u i am well versed in the ways of business. Anyway I humbly request that u and anyone who cares to keep in mind the definition of dictatorship and then read the ToS again. It was last updated by August 2008. After u have done that pls tell me that i am wrong for implying that i sense some form of dictatorship. I attest to the fact that i have already agreed to these terms. But i feel that these laws are too strict given that they are binding and are not flexible enough for the ga,es community to actually do anything about it,
In all this there is one good thing i can truthfully say about Outspark. They have been lenient to the community. Me being very grateful to that seeing as they can at anytime hold us to ransom for our many violations of the ToS.


*Dictator according to (wordweb 2005) is defined as a ruler who is unconstrained by law.

[fireyair]

I will never lead a revolt against outspark. it is not necesarry. Revolution starts with individual resolve. Little by little drops of water will make a mighty ocean.

So the Americans revolted against the British with "individual resolve"? Last I checked, 56 colonists got up and decided that the colonies needed liberation. They didn't hand out fliers, and they didn't wait for all the little farmers to finish their tea parties. They got up and made a statement. Anyways, back on topic.

Wow i just read the ToS again and damnnnnn!!!!! if i read correctly this post is against TOS. Infact any thread that is made with a complaint is against Terms of Service.

Nowhere does the ToS even imply this, you've obviously not read correctly. Additionally, I'm quite disappointed at the fact that you actually complained without even reading the ToS before, what did you think it was there for?

they even say u cant leave ur account open when u are away. what???? this sooo justifies my thread. Dictatorship.

That's right. Outspark is attempting to take over the world using free games. If you remain on the forums any longer, we will trace you and have you killed in the name of the upcoming regime.

If i am correct, ToS ultimately implies that "if u have nothing good to say just shut up." The ToS greatly diminishes the purpose of the forums.

You are not correct. The ToS says "Outspark is the boss, and you are not here to try to make an ideological point, so get used to it."

It is like giving soldiers a tooth pick each to fight a way against aliens form Independence day.

My apologies, but this simile is completely ridiculous. You are not here to "fight" Outspark or anyone else. You are here to play a game, so calm down.

Outspark can effectively ban you for typo's if they deem it inappropriate.

But they won't. Just because they can, doesn't mean they will. These rules enforce their authority, so that players don't decide to start suing for lost game content.

On a personal note who is the lawyer for Outspark? He is a genius. He found the perfect way to shut hater's up. I wanna meet him *looking up at him/her in awe* he /she is awesome.

I imagine you must be exhilarated at the sight of a man who managed to ward off idiots from Outspark. In case you didn't notice, these Terms of Service are standard in ALL MMOs, not just Fiesta Online, or even Outspark in general.

Bolded replies, yada yada yada.

BY USE OF THE OUTSPARK SERVICE YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU AGREE TO THESE TERMS AND WILL FOLLOW THEM IN THEIR ENTIRITY. YOU AGREE THAT THESE TERMS WILL APPLY TO ANYONE WHO HAS ACCESS TO YOUR OUTSPARK ACCOUNT. THIS INCLUDES ACCESS VIA YOUR APPROVAL, PERMISSION, OR BY OTHERWISE HAVING ACCESS TO YOUR OUTSPARK ACCOUNT OR OUTSPARK ACCOUNT INFORMATION (IN WHOLE OR IN PART). YOU FURTHER AGREE THAT YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE AND LIABLE FOR ANY AND ALL CONSEQUENCES WHICH MAY INCLUDE, (BUT ARE NOT RESTRICTED TO) WARNINGS, SUSPENSIONS OR TERMINATIONS OF YOUR ACCOUNT BASED UPON VIOLATIONS OF THESE TERMS BY ANY PERSON.

Does this mean that account sharing is legal but u cannot complain when something goes wrong?

It means, if you share accounts and get scammed or hacked, it's your fault.



Peace:cool:

[wunamon]

wow dude. i have gone and read as many of ur posts and i have noticed something. U like to destabilize discussions with witty comments . then i noticed ur siggy. zues8844 way 100% right about u. one thing though. I wont fear u hahahahahahahahahahaha ^_^. My advice is for u to stop doing that especially in real life. That's how people end up getting broken-off. The safety of forum doen't apply there. Anyway i laughed when i found out how right zues8844 was. it is disconcerting!

[fireyair]

wow dude. i have gone and read as many of ur posts and i have noticed something. U like to destabilize discussions with witty comments . then i noticed ur siggy. zues8844 way 100% right about u. one thing though. I wont fear u hahahahahahahahahahaha ^_^. My advice is for u to stop doing that especially in real life. That's how people end up getting broken-off. The safety of forum doen't apply there. Anyway i laughed when i found out how right zues8844 was. it is disconcerting!

I think I've lived long enough to make decisions about social relationships by myself, thank you.

This is derailing your own thread, and if it continues, it will be closed for going off-topic. Of course, you will then start the usual crud about information control, and try to convince the community that Susan Cho is a communist. So let me just tell you now: Give it up. You're not first to start these threads, and they all spiral the same way eventually. Just stay on topic, and reply to posts, rather than evading them and giving the posters mental coaching. The Dr. Phil charade is silly, I neither need nor want your advice, so keep it to yourself.

As to Zues's quote: if you can't tell the difference between a friendly joke and a C.I.A profile, just lay off, 'kay?

Anyways, after that "Hahahahahahaha" in the middle of your post, you've convinced me. You REALLY need some rest, and green tea.


Peace:cool:

[yourmojo]

BY USE OF THE OUTSPARK SERVICE YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU AGREE TO THESE TERMS AND WILL FOLLOW THEM IN THEIR ENTIRITY. YOU AGREE THAT THESE TERMS WILL APPLY TO ANYONE WHO HAS ACCESS TO YOUR OUTSPARK ACCOUNT. THIS INCLUDES ACCESS VIA YOUR APPROVAL, PERMISSION, OR BY OTHERWISE HAVING ACCESS TO YOUR OUTSPARK ACCOUNT OR OUTSPARK ACCOUNT INFORMATION (IN WHOLE OR IN PART). YOU FURTHER AGREE THAT YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE AND LIABLE FOR ANY AND ALL CONSEQUENCES WHICH MAY INCLUDE, (BUT ARE NOT RESTRICTED TO) WARNINGS, SUSPENSIONS OR TERMINATIONS OF YOUR ACCOUNT BASED UPON VIOLATIONS OF THESE TERMS BY ANY PERSON.

Does this mean that account sharing is legal but u cannot complain when something goes wrong?No, it means if someone, anyone, is in possession of your account, for whatever reason, and they do something stupid to get it banned...Then the blame goes to you no matter what. I believe they also state that it's your responsibility to keep your account details private and not to share an account.

[silksilksilk]

i dont even understand why you guys are arguing with the CLs, they have less information than Players them selves lol, the reason they are CLs is because they spend more time on the forums rather than the game =/ so arguing with them wont help any, the GMs dont listen to them the players cant respect them. just end it. and if they happen to post something just ignore it.

[fireyair]

i dont even understand why you guys are arguing with the CLs, they have less information than Players them selves lol, the reason they are CLs is because they spend more time on the forums rather than the game =/ so arguing with them wont help any, the GMs dont listen to them the players cant respect them. just end it. and if they happen to post something just ignore it.

In case you didn't realise, they're Outspark employees. All OS employees must be indemnified by yourself and all other members of the Outspark community. They are your administrators, so show some respect.

Also, this is pointlessly knocking the thread further off topic, that post was stupid and uncalled for.



Peace:cool:

[Hades_Sith_Lord]

*sigh* its not agains the CLS again, they are here to enforce the rules Os maded, please read again, CLs are not the ones to blame for this

[wunamon]

To all who wish to post here. Again I advice u read carefully b4 posting to this thread. There are no conspiracy theories here. I am not arguing with CL's. All i am asking is that in a bid to protect their interests and legal safety, outspark has implemented some really strict rules and regulations. This thread was made to request to outspark to review their ToS and the try and make a much flexible ToS. So if u are here to post hate mail and soil the image of this thread I may ask a Cl to remove ur post in order to save my thread.
@ fireyair i plead with u to avoid the kind of replies and posts u give. It seems that sometimes u dont read the post to understand it. In my reply where i said giving soldiers a tooth pick to fight in a war it was made as a figure of speech.
Once again pls try to avoid starting anything considered as conspiracy theories.
Also i would like to make aware to all CL GM and CSR out there that this thread was not made to victimise any of you. If in anyway or form u have been disrespected, I on behalf of those responsible apologise.

[silksilksilk]

In case you didn't realise, they're Outspark employees. All OS employees must be indemnified by yourself and all other members of the Outspark community. They are your administrators, so show some respect.

Also, this is pointlessly knocking the thread further off topic, that post was stupid and uncalled for.



Peace:cool:

Employees get paid =/, Volunteers are not employees, therefore lets just wait for the big wigs to say some shall we??? =/



For the record i did not disrespect any of the volunteers here, i simply made a statement. let me elaborate.


CL- Community Leader - to lead the forum community.
GM - Game Master

CL - Sir I am noticing that there are so many complaints against such and such matter, i have a suggestion regarding this situation.

GM - I am thankful you have some advise for this matter, we will look into it and consider you advise.

Thats what they tell the Players also, so how is a CL different than a Player????
There is no difference except one plays the game less and has control over the forums and over people who disprove of these rules P E R I O D.

[fireyair]

I repeat: The ToS is a standard document which is nearly identical in ALL MMOs. This isn't an Outspark invention, it's the norm.

@ Wunamon: I apologize if my posts overly intimidated you, but I do believe that certain lines should not be crossed.


Peace:cool:

[silksilksilk]

lol who told you that

dont spread rumors plox

[lordalden]

CLs get paid. Don't post your silly rumors here.



Peace:cool:

When have I gotten paid? I really did miss that part.

So there's no confusion, we are fully volunteers. No pay here, we do it outta the goodness of our heart(in some cases, I can't be sure about Celtic). =)

[fireyair]

Ooops, deleted then.

Anyways, all the more reasons to respect CLs.


Peace:cool:

[wunamon]

@ silksilk please refrain from arguing with fireyair. this will deviate this topic towards being off-topic.

@ fireyair person who freely enlists for service is reffered to by (wordweb) as a volunteer. Can I politely ask u to refrain from starting arguments with players because it seems as if u are doing this for fun.

[zoey199]

x3 Firey relax on him lol

I understand your point of view and personally i think this thread is a waste of time

But seeing as it hasn't been closed let the guy have a chance to see for himself what will become of his efforts.

Sometimes... Stopping it before it dies only makes the person more determined to try it again.

And alden :O keep it hush hush but celtic takes large bribes lol

[fireyair]

@ fireyair Can I politely ask u to refrain from starting arguments with players because it seems as if u are doing this for fun.

I wouldn't call that polite, but whatever.

I WILL debate any offense to Outspark's staff made on this thread, and I believe that it is an obligation, seeing as I agreed to the ToS, and that includes the Idemnification clause.



Peace:cool:

[silksilksilk]

You can brown nose all you want, in the end it just smells bad =/

[wunamon]

If this thread is eventually closed i wont really care because i am content as to how far it has come. Thank you all who contributed. I hope for ur involvement in my future threads.

[zoey199]

If it becomes a obligation to defend Outspark i can agree you are well within your rights..

For now just watch futile efforts come and go . . . this shall pass like all before it did and all after it will..

Thats the fun... Os doesn't precisely care that people complain... this isn't losing them money and all companies apply censorship where it suits them. Nothing will change let them beat their heads on what refuses to listen.

[silksilksilk]

For now just watch futile efforts come and go . . . this shall pass like all before it did and all after it will..

This Zoey Char speaks the truth in this one sentence.

[zoey199]

mmm you think i would speak without thinking through with what im saying?

Fireyair is loyal to Os, What his motives are i do not know, maybe he wants to be a Cl, maybe hes just a nice guy who feels sympathy for the company.

At any rate he does have the right to defend Os's honor if he feels it is being slandered, same as you have the right to complain about Os.

On that note question for Wunamon

What has this thread accomplished?

What is it going to change?

[wunamon]

If it becomes a obligation to defend Outspark i can agree you are well within your rights..

For now just watch futile efforts come and go . . . this shall pass like all before it did and all after it will..

Thats the fun... Os doesn't precisely care that people complain... this isn't losing them money and all companies apply censorship where it suits them. Nothing will change let them beat their heads on what refuses to listen.

The sound of lost hope. Very sad indeed. They might not listen to us or even act on what we suggest. But that only makes the demise even more sweeter to watch and to say I told you so. And u know what I will have a smile on my face. I might feel sad for Silky and Snappo but that will not be the case because those are some smart guys right there. Enron and EGM were once big names. Even bigger than outspark but one day it all came crubling down like a house of cards . I do this because i love Outspark and the friends i have made playing their games. It is for their sake i do this and i think that is why others also make complains and send suggestions. I took lordaldens advice and for every thread i create i make sure i have sent Ticket to CSR team first. this thread is simply for interactions of other players to know something of what might be.

[allyyCORE]

The CL team and Outspark have no problem with threads that sort of criticize Outspark or any of the games here, so as long as it's done in a civil manner. We view these threads as feedback and believe it or not, they do help Outspark improve. But if there are too many posts just bashing Outspark/community and not accepting other views, then we'll go ahead and close it before things get out of hand and in an attempt to keep things here a positive environment.

This is precisely why I have a problem with lots of Forum active members.
They criticize but they do so in a manner that is not only rude, but also doesn't contribute to the solution of whatever the problem may be.

[zoey199]

The sound of lost hope. Very sad indeed. They might not listen to us or even act on what we suggest. But that only makes the demise even more sweeter to watch and to say I told you so. And u know what I will have a smile on my face. I might feel sad for Silky and Snappo but that will not be the case because those are some smart guys right there. Enron and EGM were once big names. Even bigger than outspark but one day it all came crubling down like a house of cards . I do this because i love Outspark and the friends i have made playing their games. It is for their sake i do this and i think that is why others also make complains and send suggestions. I took lordaldens advice and for every thread i create i make sure i have sent Ticket to CSR team first. this thread is simply for interactions of other players to know something of what might be.

The sound of lost hope?

mmm tsk tsk you make me sound like im depressed lol

No what i mean is look around the other MMO's

Enron and EGM i've never heard of and as of yet i've not heard of a F2P game that has gone out of business.

Perhaps your right and Os will go down...

But every other gaming company in the world functions close to or exactly the same, very rarely is there a exception except for in small pay to play games...

Meaning if you think there is a problem then there is a problem in all the companies....

And i for one... doubt people will give up on their drug of choice... Even when oppressed... they just go to a different game... and gamers just cycle through these games... eventually some give up and stop but by then usually 3 or more people have joined due to that one....

In conclusion... What might be... may never be... yet the world goes on... just smile and have fun lol

[wunamon]

mmm you think i would speak without thinking through with what im saying?

Fireyair is loyal to Os, What his motives are i do not know, maybe he wants to be a Cl, maybe hes just a nice guy who feels sympathy for the company.

At any rate he does have the right to defend Os's honor if he feels it is being slandered, same as you have the right to complain about Os.

On that note question for Wunamon

What has this thread accomplished?

What is it going to change?

Actually what is expected to change is so big that the impact of this thread is insignificant. I explained in earlier posts what i was aiming to achieve.

All i can say to answer ur last question is that little drops of water make a mighty ocean.
Galileo was denounced and put under house arrest for making and suggesting statements such as the world was round. That didnt stop astronomers from pursuing that truth.

[zoey199]

Aye it didn't but theres already been many of these such threads may i ask why this ocean has not formed?

Who truely pursues this cause anyways?

Most give up after being ignored by Os over and over.

If you choose to try i wish you the best but there have been many "battles" and nothing has come of them.

I respect your efforts but all the same i do not see you accomplishing anything.

[wunamon]

The sound of lost hope?

mmm tsk tsk you make me sound like im depressed lol

No what i mean is look around the other MMO's

Enron and EGM i've never heard of and as of yet i've not heard of a F2P game that has gone out of business.

Perhaps your right and Os will go down...

But every other gaming company in the world functions close to or exactly the same, very rarely is there a exception except for in small pay to play games...

Meaning if you think there is a problem then there is a problem in all the companies....

And i for one... doubt people will give up on their drug of choice... Even when oppressed... they just go to a different game... and gamers just cycle through these games... eventually some give up and stop but by then usually 3 or more people have joined due to that one....

In conclusion... What might be... may never be... yet the world goes on... just smile and have fun lol

Exactly my point. I love it here on fiesta online. It is my first. MMO. i am a FPS gamer. I dont spend much time playing fiesta. It is taking me close to 2 to reach lvl 85. my alts were created to prove a point that low lvls are now easier than when we started. Enron was a major energy company in the US which went bankrupt due to some questionable practices in which one of the Big Boys committed suicide. EGM was one of the oldest video game magazines. they stuck to old and traditonal printing and editorial practices which eventually lead to their closure in the recent economic crisis. I used these examples because because it is not ethical to mention other games names here. I havent played fiesta since december 12. i just like the way the game plays and i feel that if avenues for suggestions are open, if decisions made that affect players are adequately communicated and some suggestions are implemented i feel that Outspark will have a happy and a long living community. thats all i wish for. I will take up ur advice and have fun instead of worrying. But i will take any opportunity available to make sure this game doesnt meet an unfortunate end.

[zoey199]

Lord Alden was kind enough to supply a new player suggestion thread although sadly Os removed their Feedback and Player Suggestion threads.

Perhaps a Csr report to bring to their attention these threads have disappeared and are greatly requested back are in order?

Also sometimes its best to be quiet and watch until you know enough to make use of knowledge.

Careless actions cause people to loose faith in the words you speak and sometimes will kill your cause before it begins.

And now i will remove myself from forum *yawns* trying to finish a anime series that i was enjoying until i noticed this overly drawn out and arguementive thread causing a eyesore still.

[wunamon]

good night and thanks for ur advice.

[drigr_x]

Yeah... I stopped reading and catching up on page 5 so correct me if I missed something... But I don't understand why people get so worked up over this game and this website. Its here for fun. You don't HAVE to cap. You don't have to level at all. You can use it for what it is, a game with people. I find myself in Fiesta more than with my friends because I have a bigger voice with my fellow friends over the internet. I'm normally shy in person but when I get here I can go talk to people and not worry...

As for something that have been said... GMs are people. They have an account with different priviledges and a different collored name... Would you hate on them if they came here using a different account. I bet half of you wouldn't know who is a GM/CL/CSR and who isnt. Honestly, the staff bashing makes me sick nowdays... If someone were to come up to you on here and start talking crud about you you would want them to stop right? Same with the staff... And I haven't seen any abuse of power at all really... I have, more times than one, called out a GM or someone with no ill happening. Someone accidently purchased a bogo bundle the wrong way once and felt scammed by OS. Silky basically said she was SOL and shoulda read better. I stepped in and told him he was being rude and he should show more consideration. Guess what, he did. You have to treat them like people if you want respect out of them. Something my dad always says to me. Respect isn't something you can just demand, you have to earn it. If you want to be respected you should show respect too. Everyone at OS works really hard for us. We are not the only game that they run so its not the best possible, but for what they do it is amazing.

Seeing as people on page 5 are saying someone will shut down this thread and it is now 12 pages long, I feel that that is some proof that the staff doesn't silence everything that is said negatively about them.

I'm probably going to have to retype this later, when I'm not falling alseep at the keyboard...

[cvlace]

Those who have proof, why not take ur claim to the next level, ur not gonna get anywhere here.

[Celtic_Princess]

When have I gotten paid? I really did miss that part.

So there's no confusion, we are fully volunteers. No pay here, we do it outta the goodness of our heart(in some cases, I can't be sure about Celtic). =)

I do it for the coffee...


And alden :O keep it hush hush but celtic takes large bribes lol

Preferably in the form of food. I'm craving chocolate cake atm...

good night and thanks for ur advice.

And now would you mind taking a bit of advice from me?

Read back through every page of this thread with a third party point of view. How does this thread appear to you then? Review it without bias, and tell me if you see any posts that may cross the line. Not necessarily your own, but in general.

To clear something up, the Terms of Service that Outspark uses is a standard document. You will find one similar at many other gaming companies.

The issue with account sharing comes up under the sharing of personal information. The terms of service says that account security is your responsibility alone, and that you are not allowed to give out your account information. Account sharing implies that you've told someone else your account information and as such violated the Terms of Service.

[wunamon]

I did read back at the previous posts twice. And twice i re-explained the purpose of the thread. but after 3 pages people went off-topic. I only raised the issue of a piece of ToS document (the one referring to account sharing) on to get a certain response. ( which was spot on). I also noticed that some took the opportunity to bash some volunteers and also OS staff. I have already apologised for these on their behalf. I have encouraged that players with grievances should send tickets to the CRS and should only create threads for player to player discussions. After all i wasnt expecting outspark to make a decision simply based on the thread alone.
I will say this though. The rich are not who they are because they are like the rest. They are because they are different. Laws are amended all the time for various reasons. i am just saying that in order for outspark to get as many people on their side, they should try and formally communicate decisions made that affects us. you will be surprised what a few words from the top can do. i have mentioned already that if any one feels that communication will not solve a problem. Check out the posts that came out when instance dungeons where released and an idea of what to expect was given. Majority actually praised Outspark. Also there was a thread made in which a Gm got involved in u wont believe the number of people who were very grateful and appreciative. even those that had previously posted hateful replies apologized.

[KateeHellen]

To be honest... only future known witch side of this struggle will have right.

And little different subject.
@Zoey199.
So far no F2P game fail <and lets hope that Fiesta will not be the first one>, but i already heard about couple P2P games witch collapsed <PWi is one of them and perhaps the most famous fail SW Galaxies>.
SW Galaxies is now dead because game staff start to act against community, refusing to make any new improvements over what was already added <sound familiar?>.
So gamers say Sayonara to them leaving P2P game plain dead.
PWi was different case because start as P2P game however when staff noticed that there is something wrong and game is at the edge of collapsing they made propably most daring decision and restart entire MMO as F2P <closing last year whit almost 450K$ profit, and thier CS is in compare to Fiesta CS rather poor>.
I highly doubt that F2P game might fail because of money problems <it is become clear now that people pay more cash if they have free choice to do this and not when they are obligated (vide monthly abonament) to do this>.
So only way witch F2P game might collaps lay solemly at the side of game staff and way how they handle game.

About ToS interpretation.
Like i stated when comes to quoted part of GM Silkypico post.
Everything is a matter of interpretation and semantic.
One side will find that certain rule is harmless and just help to maintain "peace and stability", but other side will find this same rule as key to enforcing harsh dictatorship.
Every rule witch leave even a small space for interpretation can be streetch to gigantic size only to favorizing one side of the conflict.
Good example is quoted here rule about account sharing.
We all read this same words but look at the reaction of posters from both sides of the barricade.
Two completely different interpretation of this same words.
"Official side" <CLs, staff and supporters > will always saying that according to that rule account sharing is illegal EVEN if this is not stated whit 100% clear words "SHARING ACCOUNT IS NOT ALLOWED".
Other side will interpreted <what wunamon proves> this same words as allowance for account sharing HOWEVER on your own responsability.
In other words "If you lost your account because of sharing do not comes to us demanding to restoration stealing items".
Both interpretation are correct and 100% legitime, HOWEVER in interpretation fight STAFF vs PLAYER staff will in 99.9 % cases win because of Administrative Authority level.
What bring us once again to Silkypico post and his bolded words.

What I will not tolerate is staff harassment.

However in his anger <rightfull or not is not me to judge> Silkypico by using this simple words without proper explanation what he mean by staff harassment he open gates to actual ban every single posts showing Outspark staff in bad light.
I agree whit wunamon that according to this words all participants of this thread witch posted against staff <me including> should become a subject of suspention <or ban> procedure.
Ridiculous?, not quite because once again all is matter of interpretation.

[wunamon]

OMG!! someone finally understood. thank u soo much KateeHellen. Shame u dont play anymore. I would have gifted u angel wings when i return. hey offer still stands. *hugs*

[KateeHellen]

OMG!! someone finally understood. thank u soo much KateeHellen. Shame u dont play anymore. I would have gifted u angel wings when i return. hey offer still stands. *hugs*

;)I did not say anything new over what was saying already but Thank You very much for your offer and who known... maybe one day i will return.:)

[Celtic_Princess]

q) You may not communicate any player's real-world personal information, in any fashion, including your own, within the Outspark Service. You may not directly or indirectly share your Outspark Account Password or Outspark Account details with anyone, and you will not hold Outspark or its subsidiaries, responsible for any damages that may occur from doing so.

YOU AGREE THAT THESE TERMS WILL APPLY TO ANYONE WHO HAS ACCESS TO YOUR OUTSPARK ACCOUNT. THIS INCLUDES ACCESS VIA YOUR APPROVAL, PERMISSION, OR BY OTHERWISE HAVING ACCESS TO YOUR OUTSPARK ACCOUNT OR OUTSPARK ACCOUNT INFORMATION (IN WHOLE OR IN PART). YOU FURTHER AGREE THAT YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE AND LIABLE FOR ANY AND ALL CONSEQUENCES WHICH MAY INCLUDE, (BUT ARE NOT RESTRICTED TO) WARNINGS, SUSPENSIONS OR TERMINATIONS OF YOUR ACCOUNT BASED UPON VIOLATIONS OF THESE TERMS BY ANY PERSON.


What you are seeing within these two different sections is not actually a contradiction. I understand that coming from me, its going to sound like bias, but at the same time I have a bit of a history with 'legalese'. So, humor me, if you will.

What the first one says, quite obviously, is that you are not allowed to share personal information within the site. This includes your Outspark Password. That ones clear enough. What the second one is saying is that should someone else have access to your account (note: they are not saying its permitted, just that should someone else be on your account) that you are liable for any and all of their actions while they are logged in under your name. Those actions include warnings, suspensions or a ban.

If we're relating this to politics, even the American Constitution is open to interpretation by the authority of the Supreme Court Justices. A lot of legal documents are vague. This isn't to control you, but instead to allow the document to be flexible enough to cover future situations that may not have been forseen. Imagine having to edit a legal document everytime a situation came up. What a pain.

Wunamon, I do understand your concern...I cannot guarantee that you'll get the level of communication you are looking for because of the non-disclosure type agreements that staff has to sign, but it never hurts to ask for as much information as possible. You want to be an informed consumer, and I would be happy to suggest this to staff.

[wunamon]

thank u very much celtic. Anyway, the part with the ToS was not to say that outspark is being illegal. It was made in order to get a reaction which proved a little point i was trying to make. In reality every fiesta player is in one way or another in violation of the ToS. We have no right to complain since we signed. and if we disagree we can simply terminate our accounts.
Pls read post#46 and 86 ( i wrote those) to understand what really i mean by dictatorship and the kind of reaction want here in this thread.

Off- topic: how can i become player of the year :3 . me want that title long time as well as forum mvp :3

[cercia]

However in his anger <rightfull or not is not me to judge> Silkypico by using this simple words without proper explanation what he mean by staff harassment he open gates to actual ban every single posts showing Outspark staff in bad light.
I agree whit wunamon that according to this words all participants of this thread witch posted against staff <me including> should become a subject of suspention <or ban> procedure.
Ridiculous?, not quite because once again all is matter of interpretation.

He declared it staff harassment because that's exactly what it was. He made one comment that was inappropriate, and the next several pages were dominated by players rallying against him.

For one sentence that was inappropriate.

Compare that to one of the earlier weapon skin threads, where Silkypico stated "5% of nothing is still nothing," and I (yes, me) retaliated by accusing him of "thinking we run around unarmed" (read: he thinks we're a bunch of idiots), and thus being idiotic himself for such an implication.

Thread never got closed.

Difference? Two posts (someone else praised me for my post) against his one sentence as opposed to multiple pages.

There's a line between harassment (which gets threads closed), and harsh words. The better we learn which side to stay on, the more we'll convey our emotions without getting threads closed.


I suppose I should mention at this point that the phrase "threads that end up being closed the majority seem to be those that in one way or another affect profits and financial interests" also needs to be applied to the perma-request threads - which, last I checked, were still going strong. Perhaps you meant "negatively affects?"

YoshimaruOrona referenced a thread "Why Fiesta is Dying for Hardcore Gamers," that was a very angry player voicing his dissatisfaction and in which bickering posters went after each other and the staff with varying levels of politeness. Stayed open for a long time, and why? Because every time we got to flames and teetered on harassment, we listened the warnings to cut back and return to business. This thread, by the way, stayed on the front page more than the Stone Tally thread, so any reviewer or new-comer to the game would have seen it. It did not paint a pretty picture of OS. Yet, in a patch shortly after, several of the OP's issues were addressed, and only then, as per OP request ("due to [his] concerns being address"), was the thread finally closed.


Also, as much as we like "yay-sayers," we all know that "nay-sayers" are more important - because they have the guts to tell us what's wrong. A while back, there was a cash shop glitch that resulted in massive reproduction of cash shop items (I don't know how familiar you are with this incident). The threads about this consumed the first page, most going unlocked for quite some time. In there, we had probably the loudest voices in the forums all clamoring for action, and no response from OS for hours, though the game was very clearly broken and requiring immediate attention.

Lo and behold, action happens, probably after several meetings/discussions/bickering.

Consequences of said actions?

Those of us who had been clamoring for action voice our approval or displeasure, and move on. Less than an hour later, there are whiners. Valid complainers. Whiners. People telling the whiners to get over it. People yelling at those people. People sympathizing with those who were valid complainers. Not a single thread was closed for voices against OS's decision, and only a few of them were closed due to being duplication threads.





On a completely unrelated note, read the ToS and License agreement for AOL Instant Messenger.
That is a scary document.
(for the curious and lazy, they basically reserve the right to damage your computer via the software)

[drigr_x]

He declared it staff harassment because that's exactly what it was. He made one comment that was inappropriate, and the next several pages were dominated by players rallying against him.

For one sentence that was inappropriate.

Compare that to one of the earlier weapon skin threads, where Silkypico stated "5% of nothing is still nothing," and I (yes, me) retaliated by accusing him of "thinking we run around unarmed" (read: he thinks we're a bunch of idiots), and thus being idiotic himself for such an implication.

Thread never got closed.

Difference? Two posts (someone else praised me for my post) against his one sentence as opposed to multiple pages.

There's a line between harassment (which gets threads closed), and harsh words. The better we learn which side to stay on, the more we'll convey our emotions without getting threads closed.


I suppose I should mention at this point that the phrase "threads that end up being closed the majority seem to be those that in one way or another affect profits and financial interests" also needs to be applied to the perma-request threads - which, last I checked, were still going strong. Perhaps you meant "negatively affects?"

YoshimaruOrona referenced a thread "Why Fiesta is Dying for Hardcore Gamers," that was a very angry player voicing his dissatisfaction and in which bickering posters went after each other and the staff with varying levels of politeness. Stayed open for a long time, and why? Because every time we got to flames and teetered on harassment, we listened the warnings to cut back and return to business. This thread, by the way, stayed on the front page more than the Stone Tally thread, so any reviewer or new-comer to the game would have seen it. It did not paint a pretty picture of OS. Yet, in a patch shortly after, several of the OP's issues were addressed, and only then, as per OP request ("due to [his] concerns being address"), was the thread finally closed.


Also, as much as we like "yay-sayers," we all know that "nay-sayers" are more important - because they have the guts to tell us what's wrong. A while back, there was a cash shop glitch that resulted in massive reproduction of cash shop items (I don't know how familiar you are with this incident). The threads about this consumed the first page, most going unlocked for quite some time. In there, we had probably the loudest voices in the forums all clamoring for action, and no response from OS for hours, though the game was very clearly broken and requiring immediate attention.

Lo and behold, action happens, probably after several meetings/discussions/bickering.

Consequences of said actions?

Those of us who had been clamoring for action voice our approval or displeasure, and move on. Less than an hour later, there are whiners. Valid complainers. Whiners. People telling the whiners to get over it. People yelling at those people. People sympathizing with those who were valid complainers. Not a single thread was closed for voices against OS's decision, and only a few of them were closed due to being duplication threads.





On a completely unrelated note, read the ToS and License agreement for AOL Instant Messenger.
That is a scary document.
(for the curious and lazy, they basically reserve the right to damage your computer via the software)

I'm agreeing with you. This always happens. We have a problem. People whine about it. They change it. People either whine about it that were oposing the change or those people that wanted the change change sides and whine about the change.

Take the PvP KQ hammer and ice. Once it came out there were countless threads about getting it removed and it being unfair. It got removed after a patch. Half the people were happy that it was gone but now we had threads saying "BRING BACK PvP HAMMER NOW!!!" Guess what, the next patch it was put back and we had people wanting it removed again. OS doesn't have to play ping pong with us and there is NO WAY POSSIBLE that they will please EVERYONE with it all being on one game.

Make Charms/Suits tradabale IG. Those that couldn't PvP stop complaining because nwo they can charm in abyss and KQ. However now we would have people that used to own in PvP upset because they have been paying for charms/suits out the wazoo and they lost that advantage.

There are 2 streets here (actually there are probably about 100) and none of them go in the same direction, they will ALWAYS colide.

[zipiouch]

o-o-o-oooooo i wanna post b4 it gets closed xD

[wunamon]

I attest to the fact that people will always have conflicting views on any issue. Striking a balance in these issues is something that is very difficult. I feel it is okay for outspark to put an idea to the test maybe a month. During that time i think Outspark can get an idea about what is really going on and if they want to implement it full-time it is up to them.
Regarding the hammer issue i guess outspark brought it back to kinda give balance to pvp KQ. In that players who dont have SC can actually have a chance due to one hit kill from hammer and immunity from the ice cubes. That to me is a perfect balance and a way to shut the "i got no SC advantage" cooments.

[Hades_Sith_Lord]

its just fun how convenient things are good or not as they are get more money by doing so check this out lol.

http://outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205687&page=2

Its not ok that high lvls go to dungeon and help academys to complete quests, but its ok that a lvl 76 go to lvl 60 dungeon and kill all players for fun, so we can discuss whats good or not? or shall we be silent again?

[fireyair]

Its not ok that high lvls go to dungeon and help academys to complete quests, but its ok that a lvl 76 go to lvl 60 dungeon and kill all players for fun, so we can discuss whats good or not? or shall we be silent again?

It may not seem morally right, but legally, that's how it must be.

We find some annoying rules like this in real life, like a robber suing the owner of a house for personal injury. It's silly, but that's what rules create.

We can't administrate all cases with moral decisions, so we develop general rules. If somebody gets away with something "on the edge," then we have nothing to do. That's how it is, and that's how it always was. This has nothing to do with corruption, it's like saying the government is biased in the previously mentioned robber's case.



Peace:cool:

[wunamon]

send a ticket to CRS to deal with the issues at hand.

[cercia]

its just fun how convenient things are good or not as they are get more money by doing so check this out lol.

http://outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205687&page=2

Its not ok that high lvls go to dungeon and help academys to complete quests, but its ok that a lvl 76 go to lvl 60 dungeon and kill all players for fun, so we can discuss whats good or not? or shall we be silent again?

That is beyond the scope of this thread, and you should know that. Abyss/dungeon discussions merit their own thread. Besides, that thread remains unlocked and clearly visible.

[Daevor]

It may not seem morally right, but legally, that's how it must be.

We find some annoying rules like this in real life, like a robber suing the owner of a house for personal injury. It's silly, but that's what rules create.

We can't administrate all cases with moral decisions, so we develop general rules. If somebody gets away with something "on the edge," then we have nothing to do. That's how it is, and that's how it always was. This has nothing to do with corruption, it's like saying the government is biased in the previously mentioned robber's case.



Peace:cool:

Your analogy is so far off, even if I was on a whole host of hallucinogens it still would not be applicable.

Allow me to furnish you with an applicable analogy: the authorities of some athletics event suddenly implement a rule where the u19 100m sprinters are allowed to participate in the u17 age group's race. It's not silly, it's completely stupid. Only by using some steroids (buying SC items) can the u17's hope to be competitive against the u19's, and should the u19's use steroids as well (walletful bullies), the u17 don't stand a chance.

Perhaps we can't administrate all cases with moral decisions, but perhaps we can administrate them some common sense.

Common sense :cool:

[KateeHellen]

It may not seem morally right, but legally, that's how it must be.

We find some annoying rules like this in real life, like a robber suing the owner of a house for personal injury. It's silly, but that's what rules create.

We can't administrate all cases with moral decisions, so we develop general rules. If somebody gets away with something "on the edge," then we have nothing to do. That's how it is, and that's how it always was. This has nothing to do with corruption, it's like saying the government is biased in the previously mentioned robber's case.



Peace:cool:

Carefull... such claim is a first step to dictatorsip.
Just because something is written as a law it is not mean that we are obligated to obey that law without a spark of criticizm.
I saw way too many ruined lifes just because some administrative just follow the letter of the law.

Like i say early corruption have many <you have no idea how many> faces and they are not always connected whit financial issues.
perhaps the most dreadfull thing is moral corruption witch very easy attack almost anyone who have even slight power advance over others.
From the highest goverment offices to low level abyss in Fiesta moral corruption IS present and that is something against witch we are truly powerless.
You will ask what abyss have something to do whit this?
Let me explain, if someone near allowed level cap go to +20 abyss and start for example constant spawn kill everyone who enter such abyss then IS what he do wrong from light of ToS?
Of course not because he is allowed to do this according to abyss special status, HOWEVER what he do is wrong from the moral point of view and because he formally exploit such opportunity he become moral corrupted even if he have no idea about this.
Like my sensej once say.
"Position in society plus any kind tools of power are breeding ground for moral corruption.
Of course not all will fail of a prey of this demon but many people will and they will not realize what they have done until usually is too late.
That is why Power without consideration of morality is a weakness and usually lead in primary to system abuse and in the end to rise of dictatorship".

[cercia]

Carefull... such claim is a first step to dictatorsip.
Just because something is written as a law it is not mean that we are obligated to obey that law without a spark of criticizm.
I saw way too many ruined lifes just because some administrative just follow the letter of the law.

A government, according to sociology, is "the institution which has a monopoly on violence."

In the case of OS, said violence is banning, locking of threads, and deletion of said threads.

Now, let me rephrase something that has been said here....

Regardless of whether or not you read or even comprehended the ToS, by creating an account here, you have accepted them.

You have accepted that OS will govern your actions on their private servers.

Breathe.

Let that sink in.

Breathe again.

At the raw, you have forfeited any and all rights to "free speech" (or whatever passes for it) on these boards or in their game, no matter what form it may take.

By accepting the terms of service, you have given Outspark the right to decide whether or not - based upon their own decisions, not yours - something is allowed to remain in public existence.

So, yes, they may be a functional dictatorship. But you agreed to it by creating an account.

If you want something changed or made more public, you must first ask, and they will decide whether or not to deign to give it to you, and how. Some of the more sour of us will say to always expect "no," others will say "wait for it, they might." Ultimately, it is not in our hands. If we cross the lines they have determined, then we become recipients of the "violence" we have agreed to give them the monopoly over.



Like i say early corruption have many <you have no idea how many> faces and they are not always connected whit financial issues.
perhaps the most dreadfull thing is moral corruption witch very easy attack almost anyone who have even slight power advance over others.
From the highest goverment offices to low level abyss in Fiesta moral corruption IS present and that is something against witch we are truly powerless.
You will ask what abyss have something to do whit this?
Let me explain, if someone near allowed level cap go to +20 abyss and start for example constant spawn kill everyone who enter such abyss then IS what he do wrong from light of ToS?
Of course not because he is allowed to do this according to abyss special status, HOWEVER what he do is wrong from the moral point of view and because he formally exploit such opportunity he become moral corrupted even if he have no idea about this.
Like my sensej once say.
"Position in society plus any kind tools of power are breeding ground for moral corruption.
Of course not all will fail of a prey of this demon but many people will and they will not realize what they have done until usually is too late.
That is why Power without consideration of morality is a weakness and usually lead in primary to system abuse and in the end to rise of dictatorship".


Just a sticking point with me, as Japanese is one of my primary languages...there is no such word as a "sensej." Do you mean "sensei?"

More relevant to your post:
Moral corruption is a subjective view, and has nothing to do with whether or not OS is a functional dictatorship. Perhaps the quality of the dictatorship, yes, but not if it is.
Also, leave the abyss out of this thread, or it will be derailed into an abyss opinion war.

[wunamon]

hmm exchange of ideologies without involving CL and OS employees. Nice. May i just raise that if you do feel there is a form off dictatorship and would like something to be done about it, u are allowed to send a ticket with the issue and a possible solution to the CRS team. Also for future posters, let us try to be polite and tolerant to others points of view. Who know if we comport ourselves in this thread, OS may even, outside of CRS department act based on what we have discussed here for the betterment of this community we love so much.

@ KateeHellen pls come back :). From what i hear Fiesta has changed a lot since i last played. graphic updates and all :). I would like to meet ur avatar in-game and probably duel :)

[KateeHellen]

@wunamon.
That will depend on at what server you have play <my main characters are from TEVA and my highest is 52 fighter>.

@cercia.
Thank You for correct my spell error :o.
Yes i mean sensei.

Strange... but suddenly this thread become so serious, however that is something what lack here from a very long time and as strange this might sound i want to thank Outspark staff and CLs for let him live despite sometimes harsh opinions here and i only wish to see here is that someone from staff come here and join to our discussion.

Abyss is an serious issue here but right now i do not see any base point for logical debate because one of the sides is not ready to accept fact that what they do IS wrong after all so i can ONLY ask for the sake of this thread to keep this debate as much logical and emotion less as it will be possible.

[lordalden]

It's not that hard of a thing to keep threads open, regardless of how iffy some of the material may at first glance be. I want you to discuss and debate the matters, but a great deal of the time threads that want to do this violate more than one rule in the Forum Rules. We can't keep it open under those circumstances, it's a conflict of interest at that point that we must take action on.

So, long story short, if you want to keep discussion threads open, don't break the forum rules, period. I understand you hate x/y person, thing in the game, or whatnot, but describing your dislike for it is only going to hurt your ability to discuss the matter once a CL finds it. Keep it courteous and respectful, and we can do this kind of thing more often.(Something I'd like to see, by the way.)

[Hades_Sith_Lord]

but what happens when a GM break the rules and is not punished? that's why the chaoes reigns here, because staff can go even against the rules, and some players that are the choosen ones by them, and just a few are the ones who have to follow the rules

[fireyair]

It's getting sillier now.

You can't demand "freedoms," or any other privileges from Outspark. Our ToS is a very standard used by most gaming companies for the sake of defining player/company interactions.

This isn't a "dictatorship," because the point of Outspark and Fiesta is not to actually lead a society. What Outspark and most gaming companies are all about, is creating a community of registered users playing their game and interacting with each other.

The forums are created for the sheer sake of player interaction. It's absurd to demand "rights" or "freedoms" from a company selling it's product. If this was real life, and Outspark was a country, then yeah, this would function as a dictatorship. However, this is not real life, and Outspark is the same as any other company. You can't just spam threads on the forums and demand "freedom of expression" to allow for such behavior. That argument is illogical, and cannot be applied here.

It comes down to a basic point maintained by several people, whether seriously or not, and that is: Fiesta is just a game. There is no need or reason to treat it as real life. Just play the game, have fun, and relax. That's all there is to it.

but what happens when a GM break the rules and is not punished? that's why the chaoes reigns here, because staff can go even against the rules, and some players that are the choosen ones by them, and just a few are the ones who have to follow the rules

First of all, our GMs do not break the rules (aside for the occasional cat YouTube video link), and if you think they did, you should definitely report them, and they WILL be punished respectively

Additionally, you are the only ones required to agree to Outspark rules and regulations, not Outspark employees.

Originally posted by The Terms of Service
All users of the Outspark Service (the "Outspark Members") have to adhere to these Terms at ALL times without exception when interacting with any aspect of the Outspark Service.



Peace:cool:

[Shadowic2]

but what happens when a GM break the rules and is not punished? that's why the chaoes reigns here, because staff can go even against the rules, and some players that are the choosen ones by them, and just a few are the ones who have to follow the rules

Actually since they do not make punishments public, staff members can and will be held accountable for their actions. Though the manner they are dealt with may not be so obvious since it is a private company matter. For all we know they could get their hours/pay cut, or even reports written on them. All punishments, whether they be applied to the community or staff are private. The ones who really know what goes on are the people involved.

[lordalden]

but what happens when a GM break the rules and is not punished? that's why the chaoes reigns here, because staff can go even against the rules, and some players that are the choosen ones by them, and just a few are the ones who have to follow the rules

I've covered this before, and in fact, on the board writing replies I sent to you after you came to mine. I'll say it again: Send a report to the CSR Team regarding this sort of thing. Guess what, the forums won't get a darn thing done about it, because

1.) You're not necessarily making an appeal to anything their supervisors may or may not see, it's not likely you know who they are to begin with.

2.) Those types of threads lead to harassment almost always, which means good bye to that thread.

3.) Even if there was some kind of conspiracy to hide information, you must realize that there's multiple CSR's, so the odds of them all saying "I won't report this" are not very likely.

Summary: Stop doing this on the forums. To be 100% honest, it accomplishes nothing. If you want something done, use the proper resources at your disposal(CSR Ticket).

[wunamon]

but what happens when a GM break the rules and is not punished? that's why the chaoes reigns here, because staff can go even against the rules, and some players that are the choosen ones by them, and just a few are the ones who have to follow the rules

Sorry to tell u this but GM and Outspark employees are not bound by the ToS. they are bound by another rule. It is not our business to know what those are unless they directly affect our adherence of our ToS. As i have mention time and time again. send a ticket with proofs if necessary to the CRS team. You will be suprised that outspark doesn't tolerate anything (be it player or employee) that affects their ability to effectively do their work and to provide a given service. Afterall they are here to make money.

Keep posts clean and constructive. Sycophancy or hate mongering will be discouraged at all turns.

[dizzlin]

trying to shut me up because i speak the truth how many accoutns are you going to ban?????

[Shadowic2]

trying to shut me up because i speak the truth how many accoutns are you going to ban?????

User's are not banned/suspended/punished for speaking their mind, only in the manner of which they speak it.

If you have an issue with a ban or suspension, please take it up with a CSR privately by submitting a ticket rather than derailing this thread.

Thank you.

[wunamon]

It's getting sillier now.

You can't demand "freedoms," or any other privileges from Outspark. Our ToS is a very standard used by most gaming companies for the sake of defining player/company interactions.

This isn't a "dictatorship," because the point of Outspark and Fiesta is not to actually lead a society. What Outspark and most gaming companies are all about, is creating a community of registered users playing their game and interacting with each other.

The forums are created for the sheer sake of player interaction. It's absurd to demand "rights" or "freedoms" from a company selling it's product. If this was real life, and Outspark was a country, then yeah, this would function as a dictatorship. However, this is not real life, and Outspark is the same as any other company. You can't just spam threads on the forums and demand "freedom of expression" to allow for such behavior. That argument is illogical, and cannot be applied here.

Peace:cool:

If u agree that the ToS is a formal agreement then will have to identify that players of Outspark games as well as outspark themselves form a society as well as a community the fact that we aren't physically present doesnt make it any less true. A society is defined as a formal association of people with similar interests.(wordweb 2005). A community is defined as a group of people living in a particular local area interacting with each other. (wordweb 2005). Outspark is the overseer of this community and effectively our leader. The ToS are the laws that govern us. We cannot change the ToS but Outspark can. Just as u can appeal for an amendment of a rule so can we. But the final say lies in the hands of the authorities of Outspark.
Ultimately this thread is so that we can amongst ourselves discuss the possibilities while if you really want change, you are strongly advised to submit a ticket to the CRS team in order for anything to be done by it. If enough people send tickets which are constructive maybe, just maybe Outspark will make some changes that will improve the relations we (gamers) have with the company. Afterall it is us they are there to serve so our happiness is one of their key concerns.


NB: Pls read post carefully before replying to them. some posts may need a proper understanding to even make a comment about.

[fireyair]

If u agree that the ToS is a formal agreement then will have to identify that players of Outspark games as well as outspark themselves for a society as well as a community. A society is defined as a formal association of people with similar interests.(wordweb 2005). A community is defined as a group of people living in a particular local area interacting with each other. (wordweb 2005). Outspark is the overseer of this community and effectively our leader. The ToS are the laws that govern us. We cannot change the ToS but Outspark can. Just as u can appeal for an amendment of a rule so can we. But the final say lies in the hands of the authorities of Outspark.
Ultimately this thread is so that we can amongst ourselves discuss the possibilities while if you really want change, you are strongly advised to submit a ticket to the CRS team in order for anything to be done by it. If enough people send tickets which are constructive maybe, just maybe Outspark will make some changes that will improve the relations we (gamers) have with the company. Afterall it is us they are there to serve so our happiness is one of their key concerns.


NB: Pls read post carefully before replying to them. some posts may need a proper understanding to even make a comment about.

Take a look at the bold, part, and make use of your own advice.

No matter what way you look at it, Outspark is NOT like a real country, and this is NOT real life. Therefor, what applies in real life, does not necessarily apply here.

Why? Well, I explained this several times in previous posts, just take a look.


Peace:cool:

[wunamon]

Take a look at the bold, part, and make use of your own advice.

No matter what way you look at it, Outspark is NOT like a real country, and this is NOT real life. Therefor, what applies in real life, does not necessarily apply here.

Why? Well, I explained this several times in previous posts, just take a look.


Peace:cool:

dude are u sure u understand what i said. If not let me say this slowly... I agree that outspark is not a country, just as a school or office place is not a country. But they have rules which are enforced by those in authority. Dictatorship is not synonymous with tryanny and also not exclusive to countries. Companies and even families can have elements of dictatorship within the laws that are made to govern themselves. We do not have right to demand law changes but we do have an avenue to appeal for amendments of ToS. that is because we (gamers) are real, the laws (ToS) are real and Outspark is real.

[fireyair]

We do not have right to demand law changes but we do have an avenue to appeal for amendments of ToS. that is because we (gamers) are real, the laws (ToS) are real and Outspark is real.

Maybe, but you can't appeal for "freedoms." No gaming company offers such things, so OS doesn't need to either. I don't see what's backing up your argument.



Peace

[wunamon]

Maybe, but you can't appeal for "freedoms." No gaming company offers such things, so OS doesn't need to either. I don't see what's backing up your argument.



Peace

Saying that no game company offers such things is a blatant lie. Due to the fact that we are not allowed to mention games here i cant mentions names of such games but there are many game companies that have reviewed their operations based on the requests from their customers and for ur information these companies are some of the very well know brands.


That aside the point;

we are not appealing for freedoms. we are appealing for some ToS clauses which super restricts players to be relaxed (not removed) we are appealing for some disclosure of information not all information but some. Like we want to know everything a new patch has brought not just a bit. we would like to know more about CS items that will be coming out and their possible applications. We cant demand these but at least appealing for it wont hurt.

Here are some various definitions of appeal from the Wordweb 2005 dictionary.

1) Earnest or urgent request
2) Attractiveness that interests or pleases or stimulates
3) (law) a legal proceeding in which the appellant resorts to a higher court for the purpose of obtaining a review of a lower court decision and a reversal of the lower court's judgment or the granting of a new trial

[zipiouch]

but what happens when a GM break the rules and is not punished? that's why the chaoes reigns here, because staff can go even against the rules, and some players that are the choosen ones by them, and just a few are the ones who have to follow the rules

thts a lie, wat do u think happened 2 dakkon? D:

[fireyair]

we are not appealing for freedoms. we are appealing for some ToS clauses which super restricts players to be relaxed (not removed)

Again, I explained why it will never happen previously, it's just an impossible and unfair request.

we are appealing for some disclosure of information not all information but some. Like we want to know everything a new patch has brought not just a bit. we would like to know more about CS items that will be coming out and their possible applications. We cant demand these but at least appealing for it wont hurt.

Now that's different, if you claim that customer support is too slow, or lacking, then I can't help you there, since I never had trouble with it.

Here are some various definitions of appeal from the Wordweb 2005 dictionary.

1) Earnest or urgent request
2) Attractiveness that interests or pleases or stimulates
3) (law) a legal proceeding in which the appellant resorts to a higher court for the purpose of obtaining a review of a lower court decision and a reversal of the lower court's judgment or the granting of a new trial

We all know what an appeal is, no need to be condescending.


Peace:cool:

[locomotion182]

trying to shut me up because i speak the truth how many accoutns are you going to ban?????

bad outspark!

[wunamon]

bad outspark!
hahahaha :D outspark not do bad :D. Outspark do good very much good :D

[Myn19]

Rules have a purpose,the one with no non-outspark links are for the safety of forum browsing,if it weren't a rule anyone could put a link to a **** site for example =_='',rick roll links lead you to a browser hijacker and a link to youtube featuring a kitten is harmful in what way?
You seem to forget the purpose of the rules,they are simplified to : no non-outpsark links instead of no *harmfull* or bad for business(other mmos) because anyone can claim to have misinterpreted *harmfull*,what is fun for some is awfull for others(why funny pics threads always seem to go down).

The GMs and other authority figures here have the right to *be above the rules*,because they are supervised,a small group of people are easier to supervise than 1 million, and they wouldn't risk their salary or job.They reinforce the rules so strictly because people seem to misinterpret understanding for leniency,I have seen threads that got 2 warnings even before closing.

If you are able to complain in a manner that didn't get the thread closed it must mean you can comprehend this I assume?

What does worry me is the deletion of freshly started threads,that admitedly are complaints against outspark,with no explanation:confused:

They are probably bad for business but still,when other members of the community would be able to input something maybe the thread starter wouldnt be so fanaticly opposed given that hes getting feedback from someone on equal footing.When you are almost foaming at the mouth you wouldnt patiently wait for days to get your answer either XD

If the thread does evolve into a flame war then you can close the thread and come out clean,the flamers will have a reputation worthy of them and wont be taken seriosly in future flame threads.I think its worth the effort unless being a dictator appeals to you o.0''
Just because the thread is started badly doesnt give you the right to delete it on the terms that ''it would've turned out to be a flame thread anyway'' unless the very first post is against the ToS.

I dont think anyones treated prefferencialy,Dakkon was fired because of this from what I hear,I tend to believe this since he had a familiar manner of acting with players that befriending some was inevitable.He was very popular,and yet he truly believed himself above the rules,there are a few people who hated him but were silenced by the fans.

If you do believe players are treated prefferecialy then how do you explain Dakkon leaving?We have a sc costume in his honour remeber?He wouldnt have been fired if it werent absolutely neccesary.People still idolize him and compare him with the GMs of today as in,he was the greatest,todays Gms suck,its very annoying because they dont actualy give arguments.

Oh,and cut the **** with real and ingame comparisons,we are ingame,stay ingame

I forgot about abyss,when will you guys get that it was meant to be a pvp arena,it isnt for grinding,you get to grind if you can survive there.
Harassing and pking are two VERY different things,if you get killed more than once by the same person and its come to the point that you cant leave the abyss and you even asked the person to stop then take pics and report,it is HARASSING.

[zizzister]

Oh,and cut the **** with real and ingame comparisons,we are ingame,stay ingame

I totally agree with you Myn19. I am a guy IRL and possess a female character. Male users possessing male characters want to marry me. After they find out I am a guy IRL, they believe I am homosexual and refuse to marry me. Users need to understand that Fiesta and reality are two distinctive worlds. All users should be familiar with the term RPG(Role Playing Game). Role playing refers to the revising of one's behavior to assume a role. This means you may act in any
form of behavior to any user no matter what gender your character is and your gender IRL. So if I married a male character with my female character and the user is a male IRL, does that mean I am homosexual? NO. Fiesta is a imaginary game and not reality. If I married the male user IRL, does that mean I am homosexual? YES.

[Kizuku]

I totally agree with you Myn19. I am a guy IRL and possess a female character. Male users possessing male characters want to marry me. After they find out I am a guy IRL, they believe I am homosexual and refuse to marry me. Users need to understand that Fiesta and reality are two distinctive worlds. All users should be familiar with the term RPG(Role Playing Game). Role playing refers to the revising of one's behavior to assume a role. This means you may act in any
form of behavior to any user no matter what gender your character is and your gender IRL. So if I married a male character with my female character and the user is a male IRL, does that mean I am homosexual? NO. Fiesta is a imaginary game and not reality. If I married the male user IRL, does that mean I am homosexual? YES.
And yet if you married a female character controlled by a female, people would suddenly care about what your character looks like and still call you a homosexual, so I guess you're kinda stuck...without the sex change item, anyway....

[zizzister]

And yet if you married a female character controlled by a female, people would suddenly care about what your character looks like and still call you a homosexual, so I guess you're kinda stuck...without the sex change item, anyway....

Yes and that too. I have nothing against homosexuality in Fiesta or IRL. I believe homosexuality is completely normal and is nothing to be ashamed of. There are people out there who would be sexually active with the identical sex because they do not find any interest in the opposite sex which is considered normal.

[Myn19]

Um,guys,you're derailing this thread ^^'',I'm glad you agree on that part of my post but what about the rest?>.>

Btw,I've heard that same sex friends married for the love buff so really it shouldn't be an issue.And I knew someone who made a girl char for eye candy lol.
If this subject bothers you so much you should started a thread,a poll on who rpgs and who acts in the game as he would in reality.I'm curious which will be the majority P=
I act differently on each class,I haven't made any male chars yet.

[wunamon]

Yeah,they do seem to put it like that.The starter of this thread seems to think he's the leader of the opressed,either that or a riot starter.


For ur information, i do not view myself as a riot leader or a leader for the oppressed. In fact when i have a grievance with Outspark, i simply send them a ticket to which i always seem to get the answers i need. I have mentions time and time again in this thread to players to do the same when they have got issues. Furthermore the forum is the avenue that has been designed for players to discuss their issues, not a place where we get things done. the purpose of this thread is not to lead a riot but to set an avenue for a healthy discussion about issues relating to ToS where players feel that there is an aspect of dictatorship and also to find out why some threads are closed while others stay open. Please do well to read previous posts in this thread to find out how far the thread has gone. You will find out some really interesting information if u do.

[KateeHellen]

Please keep marriage issues out of this thread because this is not a subject of debate here.

@zizzister.
Why i have fellings that first: You do not even bother to read main subject of this thread, two: Your post was intentional made whit solem purpose to derail this thread and in the end to closing him down permanently?
But let me sheed some light at this subject since you brought him here <and not to be accused of censoring others posts>.
Right now homosexualiy is very touchy subject in global debate and to be honest i do not saw so far any "flame free" debate about this because still majority of population sees homosexuality as something not correct in general.
Beside i do not think so that this forum IS a proper place to discuss something like that.

@Myn19.
After i read your post i find him little unconsequential.
In one paragraph you defend Outspark and thier actions <vide non-Outspark links>, but in next paragraph you go against them when comes to actions what are lay at the foundations of this thread.
I too saw couple closing ups witch have looking like preventive actions without actual reasons but made only because for example initial post indicates in what way whole thread might go <vide another staff critics>.
Dakkons leaving rises many questions untill today <nondisclosure agreement works well in this case>, but let us be honest, you might liked him or not but Dakkon was one of the most interactive GMs in staff and that is why people will still remember him because level of interaction from current staff <by the way i am curious how many GMs is right now in Fiesta? > leave way too many empty space.
Abyss... that place will remain as painfull torn in this community and not because of what abyss is in the first place but level of abuse that feature showing by group of people witch made for themself only goal there to make others life a nightmare.

As i posted in the past so i will repeat once again.
Fiesta so called pvp feature have right now nothing to do whit true PvP, but this subject <as same as early mentioned homosexuality> should not be discuss here <i known that i have bring abyss issue> because they have nothing to do whit topic of this thread.

I really do not known how long this thread can go because i am afraid that soon or later he will be closed up "because of potential flame war risk"...

[Myn19]

For ur information, i do not view myself as a riot leader or a leader for the oppressed. In fact when i have a grievance with Outspark, i simply send them a ticket to which i always seem to get the answers i need. I have mentions time and time again in this thread to players to do the same when they have got issues. Furthermore the forum is the avenue that has been designed for players to discuss their issues, not a place where we get things done. the purpose of this thread is not to lead a riot but to set an avenue for a healthy discussion about issues relating to ToS where players feel that there is an aspect of dictatorship and also to find out why some threads are closed while others stay open. Please do well to read previous posts in this thread to find out how far the thread has gone. You will find out some really interesting information if u do.

Sorry,that wasn't meant for you,I've been reading some *complaint* threads made by someone who doesn't type coherently and speaks in plural.(we)
(I'm very mad because it seems to me that he's convinced the simple minded to agree through his sheer determination and that people will get the wrong view on things.)Switching between threads coupled with 2 exams in one day can do that to you.
I did read the thread,I don't think I've skipped anything but I'll humour you.

[zizzister]

Please keep marriage issues out of this thread because this is not a subject of debate here.

@zizzister.
Why i have fellings that first: You do not even bother to read main subject of this thread, two: Your post was intentional made whit solem purpose to derail this thread and in the end to closing him down permanently?
But let me sheed some light at this subject since you brought him here <and not to be accused of censoring others posts>.
Right now homosexualiy is very touchy subject in global debate and to be honest i do not saw so far any "flame free" debate about this because still majority of population sees homosexuality as something not correct in general.
Beside i do not think so that this forum IS a proper place to discuss something like that.


Maybe you are right about the whole off topic discussion but I was attempting to make a point. Why not talk about homosexuality? At least my discussion was not in full detail to make it sound creepy or disguisting in any way. Besides, you should all understand homosexuality and its ways by now. I mean how old are you guys? under the age of 13? If you are, Outspark is required by law to permanently delete your account if caught under that age.

[KateeHellen]

Maybe you are right about the whole off topic discussion but I was attempting to make a point. Why not talk about homosexuality? At least my discussion was not in full detail to make it sound creepy or disguisting in any way. Besides, you should all understand homosexuality and its ways by now. I mean how old are you guys? under the age of 13? If you are, Outspark is required by law to permanently delete your account if caught under that age.

I am old in off to known difference <born Anno Domini 74 > between hetero and homosexual relationship.
Like i say early i do not think that this forum is a proper place for such very complex discussion.
Reason is not because of censorship but because rather low "maturity" level of some part of this community and in effect very high risk of flame war.
Like Myn19 posted, if you want to learn what this community think about homosexuality you should made own thread whit poll, however there was once thread here whit same sex marriage issue witch was closed down because of flame war if i recall correct.
You must realize that homosexuality is a minority witch will be forced to stand off against gigantic majority of heterosexual society for a very long time.

[wunamon]

pls lets stay on topic. thank you

[wunamon]

Sorry,that wasn't meant for you,I've been reading some *complaint* threads made by someone who doesn't type coherently and speaks in plural.(we)
(I'm very mad because it seems to me that he's convinced the simple minded to agree through his sheer determination and that people will get the wrong view on things.)Switching between threads coupled with 2 exams in one day can do that to you.
I did read the thread,I don't think I've skipped anything but I'll humour you.
so did u see anything interesting. I must also apologize for somehow lashing out. I have had a few people criticize me just like that also because u said " the one who started the thread" I hope i am forgiven.
Have a nice day every1

[Celtic_Princess]

Katee I keep reading over and over in your posts that this thread will get shut down for one reason or another. I'd like to point something out. If I were really going for dictatorship or information control I could have easily shut it down by now, but I have not. Neither have any of the other CLs or staff members. That alone should say something to you.

A number of 'controversial' threads have been kept open until they either a. died on their own, b. were resolved, or c. closed at the request of the OP. In fact I've been active in a lot of them and they still remained open. Certain topics we try to avoid (religion, politics, etc) because the community we have here is so diverse that such topics have lead to flaming, arguing, negative feelings and players being upset in the past.

Like others have said this topic is getting derailed, out of respect for the OP please try and keep it on track.

[mistertears]

This is their site. Fiesta is their game.

I keep hearing kids cry out "FREEDOM OF SPEECH" yet they don't fully understand the 1st amendment. This is the forums, their forums. This is Isya. This isn't "America".

[Myn19]

so did u see anything interesting.Don't push it *glare*,I had read alot more since my first post,I was following the thread,it refreshed my memory on some subjects though. I must also apologize for somehow lashing out.You were entitled to really I clearly insulted you.I have had a few people criticize me just like that also because u said " the one who started the thread" I hope i am forgiven.There aren't any posts :confused:,did they send you hate pms?=_=''Have a nice day every1

Please keep marriage issues out of this thread because this is not a subject of debate here.

@zizzister.
Why i have fellings that first: You do not even bother to read main subject of this thread, two: Your post was intentional made whit solem purpose to derail this thread and in the end to closing him down permanently?
That's harsh,I guess you think you can never be too *cautious*
But let me sheed some light at this subject since you brought him here <and not to be accused of censoring others posts>.
Right now homosexualiy is very touchy subject in global debate and to be honest i do not saw so far any "flame free" debate about this because still majority of population sees homosexuality as something not correct in general.
Beside i do not think so that this forum IS a proper place to discuss something like that.True,reason why I didn't sugest making a poll on marriages.
@Myn19.
After i read your post i find him little unconsequential.
In one paragraph you defend Outspark and thier actions <vide non-Outspark links>, but in next paragraph you go against them when comes to actions what are lay at the foundations of this thread.
You said a few posts before that you can read between the lines,well,so can I,you're basicly saying that you can't figure whose side I'm on so you will just disregard my post.Why see in black and white when there are so many lovely shades of grey?Sure,black and white do contrast nicely but are really simplistic.Did you know grey tends to look like the contrasting colour of the one it's next to.You seem to have a flair for the dramatic,I'm sure you'll have no problem figuring what I mean =P I too saw couple closing ups(I saw threads get deleted,dissapear,no closings,no warning,that is worrying)witch have looking like preventive actions without actual reasons but made only because for example initial post indicates in what way whole thread might go <vide another staff critics>.
Dakkons leaving rises many questions untill today <nondisclosure agreement works well in this case>, but let us be honest, you might liked him or not but Dakkon was one of the most interactive GMs in staff and that is why people will still remember him because level of interaction from current staff <by the way i am curious how many GMs is right now in Fiesta? > leave way too many empty space.

Let us be honest:D,you only added "might liked him" to be diplomatic,no,I never met him so I don't like him nor hate him.What I do know is that a thread a long time ago on his leaving had 1-2 people that didn't like him and got flamed by the supporters.In case you haven't noticed I have pointed out he's popular and did say he interacted with players.(familiar way)English isn't my first language so maybe I didn't express myself well enough,but by the looks of your grammar it's the same for you.(stop being condscending)
Have you thought that the rules may have gotten stricter regarding player-gm interaction since dakkon?they wouldn't want a repeat would they?The threads started lately haven't exactly been friendly towards staff either,I'm impressed that the thread has been kept civil.
Abyss... that place will remain as painfull torn in this community and not because of what abyss is in the first place but level of abuse that feature showing by group of people witch made for themself only goal there to make others life a nightmare.I think you're blowing it out of proportion but nvm this...

As i posted in the past so i will repeat once again.
Fiesta so called pvp feature have right now nothing to do whit true PvP, but this subject <as same as early mentioned homosexuality> should not be discuss here <i known that i have bring abyss issue> because they have nothing to do whit topic of this thread.

I really do not known how long this thread can go because i am afraid that soon or later he will be closed up "because of potential flame war risk"...Good luck,I'm out,unless I need to respond to anything else

The bolded parts ^ ^

[cercia]

As much as I hate to drag Dakkon's actions back from the past, there is one thing I need to clear up.

He was no more or less active than the GLs of the time. In fact, I remember Asp and Nei far better than Dakkon, and also liked them much better. You could even go so far as to say I despise Dakkon because it was a result of his actions that caused the GLs to no longer maintain their status, and the very same actions are why no new GLs will be created. To that end, I bite my thumb at him.

However, in all the threads I've seen that say, "Dakkon ruled!" they are almost always followed by "[insert any current GM here] sucks!"
And people wonder why they get closed. http://forums.gleemax.com/images/smilies/doh.gif
Maybe, perhaps, its the second part of that. You know, the harassment of the company for making a decision that protects its interests?

~sigh~

Which leads me back to a point I made earlier: critique is not the same as harassment. Proper criticism through proper channels gets heard, though we may not see the results immediately, or even hear about them for some time. Forum harassment - of anyone - reaps fast and unkind consequences. This is not an attempt to control information, it is an attempt to curtail rudeness.

[lordalden]

Please keep marriage issues out of this thread because this is not a subject of debate here.

@zizzister.
Why i have fellings that first: You do not even bother to read main subject of this thread, two: Your post was intentional made whit solem purpose to derail this thread and in the end to closing him down permanently?
But let me sheed some light at this subject since you brought him here <and not to be accused of censoring others posts>.
Right now homosexualiy is very touchy subject in global debate and to be honest i do not saw so far any "flame free" debate about this because still majority of population sees homosexuality as something not correct in general.
Beside i do not think so that this forum IS a proper place to discuss something like that.

@Myn19.
After i read your post i find him little unconsequential.
In one paragraph you defend Outspark and thier actions <vide non-Outspark links>, but in next paragraph you go against them when comes to actions what are lay at the foundations of this thread.
I too saw couple closing ups witch have looking like preventive actions without actual reasons but made only because for example initial post indicates in what way whole thread might go <vide another staff critics>.
Dakkons leaving rises many questions untill today <nondisclosure agreement works well in this case>, but let us be honest, you might liked him or not but Dakkon was one of the most interactive GMs in staff and that is why people will still remember him because level of interaction from current staff <by the way i am curious how many GMs is right now in Fiesta? > leave way too many empty space.
Abyss... that place will remain as painfull torn in this community and not because of what abyss is in the first place but level of abuse that feature showing by group of people witch made for themself only goal there to make others life a nightmare.

As i posted in the past so i will repeat once again.
Fiesta so called pvp feature have right now nothing to do whit true PvP, but this subject <as same as early mentioned homosexuality> should not be discuss here <i known that i have bring abyss issue> because they have nothing to do whit topic of this thread.

I really do not known how long this thread can go because i am afraid that soon or later he will be closed up "because of potential flame war risk"...

Your replies here to what was said is fine, but if you don't want things to go off-topic it may help you to not go off-topic and then say "it may get closed or I'm being off-topic".

If you want things to remain on-topic, please discuss it, and know full well that even if the opinions of others on this particular topic do not agree with your outlook that doesn't necessarily mean arguing that their opinions being wrong to you will be necessarily beneficial to the topic at hand, especially in a manner that masks your main concerns(hence your subtle additions about PvP and the like).

The short and simple: People aren't always going to agree with you, and that needs to be seen as acceptable, also, if you're going to make claims of off-topic or a topic getting closed for x/y reasons, it will help tremendously if you can remain within that.

I am old in off to known difference <born Anno Domini 74 > between hetero and homosexual relationship.
Like i say early i do not think that this forum is a proper place for such very complex discussion.
Reason is not because of censorship but because rather low "maturity" level of some part of this community and in effect very high risk of flame war.
Like Myn19 posted, if you want to learn what this community think about homosexuality you should made own thread whit poll, however there was once thread here whit same sex marriage issue witch was closed down because of flame war if i recall correct.
You must realize that homosexuality is a minority witch will be forced to stand off against gigantic majority of heterosexual society for a very long time.

This is off-topic, as is the entire discussion of such things. It adds nothing to the topic as the OP implied with posts after this, and these are the specific topics we CL's tend to close as per them being very quick to be flamed, aggressive, and otherwise.

This is me as a CL talking now: If you post this kind of thing, this thread WILL end up getting closed, as these discussions never end well, so my advice at this point is asking you to stop the discussion of sexual orientation or anything of the sort now. We have to be strict on this one because we've never been able to be lenient on this one.

As much as I hate to drag Dakkon's actions back from the past, there is one thing I need to clear up.

He was no more or less active than the GLs of the time. In fact, I remember Asp and Nei far better than Dakkon, and also liked them much better. You could even go so far as to say I despise Dakkon because it was a result of his actions that caused the GLs to no longer maintain their status, and the very same actions are why no new GLs will be created. To that end, I bite my thumb at him.

However, in all the threads I've seen that say, "Dakkon ruled!" they are almost always followed by "[insert any current GM here] sucks!"
And people wonder why they get closed. http://forums.gleemax.com/images/smilies/doh.gif
Maybe, perhaps, its the second part of that. You know, the harassment of the company for making a decision that protects its interests?

~sigh~

Which leads me back to a point I made earlier: critique is not the same as harassment. Proper criticism through proper channels gets heard, though we may not see the results immediately, or even hear about them for some time. Forum harassment - of anyone - reaps fast and unkind consequences. This is not an attempt to control information, it is an attempt to curtail rudeness.

Also, to this post, and the ones previous mentioning Dakkon, another part of the Forum Rules:

*25. Discussions about past Outspark Employees is not permitted on the forums.

Let's remain on-topic here please. That means being fully on topic, not half discussing your agenda and half discussing the topic, and not getting into bad topics.

[KateeHellen]

@Myn19.
My reply might sound harsh but his post was looking like usual off topic bomb to create chaos.
He might be connect whit topic of this thread IF he will have any base in the past events but except thread about same sex marriage made long time ago and closing down because of derailing and flame war i do recall any threads about this issue posted here.
True,reason why I didn't sugest making a poll on marriages.
Sheeesh... i should really more careful read posts ;), but even such replys like your and mine can be very good reason for another thread "OS community is homophobic" <there was already couple threads accusing Outspark of being racial because everyone in game have "white' skinn>.

About Dakkon.
I think each player witch meet him at least one time have different memory of him.
I personally meet him three times;
1 was during first OX Field event and he send me to jail :rolleyes: because all i have done was saying Hello to my friend in open chat.
<later on he release most of us spawning inside prison horde of MDs :eek:>
Later on during First OS Earth Day <but that was only brief visual contact> and last direct contact was when BR was open for a brief time.
I goes there whit group of +40 players and Dakkon spawned for us couple groups of orcs because regular BR mobs were out of reach for us.
And that was last time when i saw him in game.
Whatever reasons lay behind his leave is now between him and OS alone and to all who will posted here in future please let this so be.

Abyss.
Do i really blow out proportions?
It is true that right now become more quiet about abysses but i really hope that OS did not give a life to idea of auto ban any abyss threads made once here <in form of petition> by some posters.
But until Christmas and little later day by day poped up threads about spawn kills in especially +20 abyss.

English is not my primary language so if you interpreted my words as critic over your writing style so i apologize because that was absolutely not my intention :).

Last thing.
@Celtic.
I really do not want to start arguments over this issue whit you <i have once in off fights whit poisoned about threads closed by staff during IP block crisis>.
To be honest, right now i must admit that situation is improved but i remember well how in the past threads were closed down without a single word of explanation why <and sometimes without legitime reason>.
I personally experienced this when i typed reply in one of such threads and when i push "Post Quick Reply" button, instead of my reply i saw "KateeHellen You are not Authorized to view this thread" thing.
I stared at monitor for good fife minutes thinking "What a ..." because so far as i remember there was no reason for such removing.
But perhaps best example was removing thread witch compared US and EU Fiesta.
I known that OS do not like such comparisions to other games but that thread goes longer and have more sites as this whit very little critics against staff and one day <i used link posted at EU Fiesta forum> instead of thread i landed in restricted zone but day early there was not a slight indications that this thread might be deleted.
But i known that because i cannot prove any part of my claims i will be treat as someone whit too big phantasy <or speaking harsh and simply LAIR> however do not forget that above you are people who might take any sort of actions against this thread and without single word of explanation why because "Outspark is not obligated to inform about reasons of penalty action against this thread".

EDIT:
@Alden.
Whit all due respect but care to explain WHY I AM get lashed because of my replys at the post someone who apparently is hiding at false account?
In your reply i did not noticed a single quote from his post AND if you take notice in previous post before this reply i ask him not to dwell this topic and what i recive in return?
Accusation to be underage and <indirect spoken> being homophobic.
*sigh...* it is started to be clear that time of this thread is running out so do not worry i will not reply here any longer unless this will be really necessary.

[Celtic_Princess]

@Celtic.
I really do not want to start arguments over this issue whit you <i have once in off fights whit poisoned about threads closed by staff during IP block crisis>.
To be honest, right now i must admit that situation is improved but i remember well how in the past threads were closed down without a single word of explanation why <and sometimes without legitime reason>.
I personally experienced this when i typed reply in one of such threads and when i push "Post Quick Reply" button, instead of my reply i saw "KateeHellen You are not Authorized to view this thread" thing.
I stared at monitor for good fife minutes thinking "What a ..." because so far as i remember there was no reason for such removing.
But perhaps best example was removing thread witch compared US and EU Fiesta.
I known that OS do not like such comparisions to other games but that thread goes longer and have more sites as this whit very little critics against staff and one day <i used link posted at EU Fiesta forum> instead of thread i landed in restricted zone but day early there was not a slight indications that this thread might be deleted.
But i known that because i cannot prove any part of my claims i will be treat as someone whit too big phantasy <or speaking harsh and simply LAIR> however do not forget that above you are people who might take any sort of actions against this thread and without single word of explanation why because "Outspark is not obligated to inform about reasons of penalty action against this thread".


I can tell you quite easily why those threads were removed. Discussion of non-Outspark games, and links to non-Outspark games have never been permitted on the forums. That includes other versions of Fiesta.

Generally, if I need to link someone to a different version due to an IP block, I send them to the main fiesta site where they can find a link to each areas version of the game.

The point I'm trying to make by responding is that while you may not see an issue in the thread, that doesn't necessarily mean that there wasn't one. It is our job to see those things, and moderate them appropriately. If you think that a thread was closed or removed inappropriately, submit a ticket to our higher ups and they'll review it.

Also, generally if a thread has enough violations or reason to be removed they do not leave a public notice but instead PM the people involved in the violations. Often, players either lost their temper, didn't know it was a violtation, or just slipped up. Why point this out publicly when I can PM them and discuss it with the user one on one?

The issue the OP brought to the table was about the level of staff communication. Now, I can understand desiring more communication from staff and its not a bad thing to ask for. At the moment, they are under going some staff changes (please welcome GM_Kae) and the forums may not be on the top of their priority list. Once things settle down, I'm sure that you will see more interaction from staff members.

[lordalden]

EDIT:
@Alden.
Whit all due respect but care to explain WHY I AM get lashed because of my replys at the post someone who apparently is hiding at false account?
In your reply i did not noticed a single quote from his post AND if you take notice in previous post before this reply i ask him not to dwell this topic and what i recive in return?
Accusation to be underage and <indirect spoken> being homophobic.
*sigh...* it is started to be clear that time of this thread is running out so do not worry i will not reply here any longer unless this will be really necessary.

You weren't, you just had the most posts on the same page I wanted to discuss. As I said, I'm not going to act as a CL here, even if I will try to inform you a bit. You had a post that masked a secondary agenda after making your rebuttals, which was sandwiched between "let's not go off topic" and "this might start potential flames".

That was an interesting way to discuss matters to me, so I addressed that. The second part I was hoping to avoid bringing up on my end at all, simply on the hope that the discussion wouldn't go any further.

Also, someone hiding on a false account does not make the discussion of sexual orientation somehow become a more lenient one. We have tried to have these discussions in the past and it doesn't work. I also pointed out another posters' reply and gave them a direct excerpt of the forum rules that they were violating.

For what it's worth though, the only reason you got quoted twice was because you had more posts on this page I felt like addressing. Partially lazy on my end, but most of the other discussions came to an end point on this page, meaning coming from the end of what you said was more to the end of the discussion than if I had quoted every last reply. It was a more convenient and simple solution, essentially.

Also, as for the homophobic remark, age nor any of that matters. The discussions I can promise WILL get the thread closed, regardless of how fanatic you or others may feel on it, so as I have strongly urged, I will say again: Please stop before it HAS to stop.

Edit: Also, for the lack of clarity earlier in my posting, and if there is any here, I apologize. My intention is never to offend. What I typed here was typed in haste.

[fireyair]

@Alden.
Whit all due respect but care to explain WHY I AM get lashed because of my replys at the post someone who apparently is hiding at false account?
In your reply i did not noticed a single quote from his post AND if you take notice in previous post before this reply i ask him not to dwell this topic and what i recive in return?
Accusation to be underage and <indirect spoken> being homophobic.
*sigh...* it is started to be clear that time of this thread is running out so do not worry i will not reply here any longer unless this will be really necessary.

O.o

I must have missed something.


Peace:cool:

[wunamon]

tick tock the frequency of of topic discussions further steer my thread to an end which was not intended by me. Anyway i will say as i ahve said in previous posts. Stay on toplic as much as possible. There is no need to explain yourself to another person Unless it is really necessary. Also dont forget that this is a place for discussion and not solutions. If u are looking a form of solution then i advise u to submit a ticket to the CSR team.
Thank u :)

[fireyair]

I think this issue was quite settled. There's nothing left to discuss.



Peace:cool:

[zizzister]

I think this issue was quite settled. There's nothing left to discuss.



Peace:cool:

I would have to agree. The Outspark staff did the best they could to discuss these issues. I believe that this is enough said and the debate should be closed before it gets out of hand.

Thank you Outspark for trying your best to resolve these issues.

[drigr_x]

Not to mention no one is listening anymore. I am also for closing this,

[wunamon]

I formally request that this thread is closed in order not to cause any unwanted discussions. Thank you all that contributed to this thread. I also congratulate the CL's that did their best to keep this thread alive despite a few misdoings by some posters. I hope that all that has been discussed will be taken into consideration by the authorities of Outspark and something done about them. We have had a good run with this thread I once again thank you all.

[lordalden]

Given that this is a request by the OP, I will close it on those grounds alone.