The Protect Buff and the Prestige Change

[nemesis333]

I have noticed that the skill NPC at Aberstol Ruins shows that the Protect party buff is only for the Holy Knight. This must be a mistake right? The reason I say this is because most of the other skills including the Resist party buff and the aoe heals are shared between both trans classes. Additionally, Guardians are supposed to be party-oriented, so why would they be deprived of the most important party buff for clerics?

I would really appreciate it if a GM or some member of the OS administration give an answer as to why the Guardians do not get the improved Protect buff after levl 100. As it stands, the Holy Knight seems like the more attractive option and leaving Guardians without the Protect buff just tips things in favour of the Holy Knight

[lenore_lurks]

This is why the choice for either HK or Guardian is killing me.

HK get protect, endure, and some awesome new moves. But I think they don't get an increase in END after the job change.

Guardians get upgrades to heal and rejuve, which are going to be vital skills if this game really does go to lv150.

There's going to be alot of HK's and hardly any Guardians.

[SweaterMittens]

guardians get that hot revive skill thingy.

[drigr_x]

Yeah. My friend said he was gonna be a knight for damage and such but I prefer support so I was gonna be a gaurdian. However I used one of my alby scrolls to look at the prestige skills... I decided that, Gaurds get regular heal, however , all the others are for both. Yet the def/dmg buff is for knight. All around I liked the knight's skills more.

[YoshimaruOrona]

This is why the choice for either HK or Guardian is killing me.

HK get protect, endure, and some awesome new moves. But I think they don't get an increase in END after the job change.

Guardians get upgrades to heal and rejuve, which are going to be vital skills if this game really does go to lv150.

There's going to be alot of HK's and hardly any Guardians.

Guardians get the crap end of the skill list.

But I'm going that way anyway. I prefer having sexy heals over having uber buffs. And I'll be damned if I don't get that self-revive.

But yeah, I'm really not liking how OnsOn split HK's and guardians up. HK's undoubtedly have the better skill set. The only way this evens out is if the heals become epic later. As of now, I don't see a huge difference happening, but it makes sense, since the cap is only 5 levels after the prestige job change.

Only way to know for sure which class is worth playing lv100+ is to wait til the next cap raise, but nobody's going to intentionally do that, I don't think.

[joecracker]

u would think it should be reversed knight get hammer guard get mace

[nasgax]

Guardians get the crap end of the skill list.

But I'm going that way anyway. I prefer having sexy heals over having uber buffs. And I'll be damned if I don't get that self-revive.

But yeah, I'm really not liking how OnsOn split HK's and guardians up. HK's undoubtedly have the better skill set. The only way this evens out is if the heals become epic later. As of now, I don't see a huge difference happening, but it makes sense, since the cap is only 5 levels after the prestige job change.

Only way to know for sure which class is worth playing lv100+ is to wait til the next cap raise, but nobody's going to intentionally do that, I don't think.

Did you expect anything less from an unbalance game? LOL. Just quit while your ahead.

[Andromeda]

As of now HK are easily better BUT as the levels gradually go further it will gradually make Guardian more playable/wanted possibly making them more wanted than HK.

This may not happen until Lv 140ish but when it happens Guardians will come out to shine they will simply have the better heal which would be essential in a Thornbush Cave Raid.

From Lv 129 Guardians have the strongest weapon in the game (You heard me) to somewhat even out the lack of attack skills it has to HK.

Think of it like Hellgaits Knights can the Hellgait Axe but gradually in the later levels it will become more effective to use the weapons designed for their class.

[xNimue]

IMO, if you've got epic protect buffs for your party, you won't need those new heals. Besides, thats what heal empowerment is for. ;p

[Ren-sama]

I want teh rebirth skill.... it would be great for pt and solo.... but without no new endure, cant imagine how to expect after that... We cleric lvl up with the anticipation of a new tier of Endure skill... After changing class to guardian and get rebirth... what else can we look forward to... :(

Aaaaaaahhhhhh!!!! DILEMMA!!!!!


Dx

[nemesis333]

IMO, if you've got epic protect buffs for your party, you won't need those new heals. Besides, thats what heal empowerment is for. ;p

You may be right now but what about when people are able to able to hit 20k plus HP and you are fighting monsters that hit you for 8 and 9k damage, strong Guardian heals would be important then. Look at it this way, can a level 70 cleric effectively keep you alive at shadows? The short answer is no.

They have made it so that HKs can solo and they look really attractive right now, but I seriously think it is messed up that for Guardians who will be so party-dependent they don't get the Protect buff. I really am guessing that this is a mistake because there is no other way to explain why a party-oriented
class is deprived of an important party-based skill.

[xNimue]

If you look at the amount of HP guardians can heal in comparison to HK's, the increase isn't that great. And if you're a good enough cleric, you can still look after your party with slightly lower levelled heals. I guess it's all up to how you play your character.

[drigr_x]

I don't understand why endure is made as an HK only skill either... I made my cleric (at first) for the sole purpose of being able to buff, both myself and others, now I may end up a level 140 Gaurdian sitting there yelling "Buff Pl0x?" once again. Thankfully I am only level 54 and not an uber leveler that I more than likely wont even be close to prestige before next cap raise.

[Chaola]

I think what Nemesis is trying to say is this :

Heal (Cleric or higher)
Instantly heal yourself or a friendly target.Lv. 3213 Sec

Next Skill Level : Lv. 9, 15, 21, 27, 33, 39, 45, 51, 57, 63, 69, 75, 81, 87, 93, 99, 105, 115, 122, 129

At level 130, a Gardian will have 4 upgrades from his Heal, with HK won't have any.

Min increase by lvl 8x in Heal Uprade is 100HP, so that will be 400. Plus 50 from the empowerment, 200, so a Gardian will be able to heal more by 600 HP minimum compared to a HK.

Seeing how our HP increase, with the sets, END in build and gears etc, at level 130, the heals needed might be too big for a HK to perform good.

I think the skills repartition is very very weird :confused:

[drigr_x]

When you have 20k+ HP I don't think 600 in a heal matters much. Not to mention there are like 4-6 total different heals. If you need to maker up for that 600 then hit a different heal.

[firebolt126]

They shouldn't really seperate the skills into class, especially if those skills are already learned. Instead, add new skills with greater effects. Like a new aoe, buff, or heal.

[Chaola]

When you have 20k+ HP I don't think 600 in a heal matters much. Not to mention there are like 4-6 total different heals.

We'll have more HP, but mobs will hit harder too.

Everything will increase.

But we don't know, and we have no details on the skills upgrades. 600 in the MINIMUM HP difference, it might be way more, I don't know.

What about Rejuv, do HK get the upgrades too ?


If you need to maker up for that 600 then hit a different heal.

And no need to be insulting, this is a discussion and everyone is intitled to give their view on the topic.

[Andromeda]

Rejuvenate upgrades are for Guardian only so I can see this coming in real handy for boss fights where bosses are going to hit extremely hard.

[Chaola]

Rejuvenate upgrades are for Guardian only so I can see this coming in real handy for boss fights where bosses are going to hit extremely hard.

Oh.

In KQ too, where you switch target and use Rej to heal someone else while your heal is in CD.

This is bothersome.

Rejuvenate (Highcleric or higher)
Instantly heal a large amount of the target's HP.Lv. 411310 Sec

Next Skill Level : Lv. 47, 53, 59, 65, 71, 77, 83, 89, 95, 101, 115, 125

Also, it's only 2 upgrades till level 130. So only 400 (still minimum) difference.

I'm also thinking that if the game post-90 stay the grind feast that it is... When I see guildies tanking 50 gargoyles, heals AND buffs will be important.

To divid them like this is... incomprehensible.

[nemesis333]

If you look at the amount of HP guardians can heal in comparison to HK's, the increase isn't that great. And if you're a good enough cleric, you can still look after your party with slightly lower levelled heals. I guess it's all up to how you play your character.

I am not entirely disagreeing with you because HKs heals will be sufficient at this cap raise and maybe even the next, but that is exactly my point. They have made HKs seem a much more viable option. I don't mind that HKs get the increased endure and stronger bash, but my main concern is the Protect party buff. Such an important party buff should not be stripped from a Guardian, which is a party-dependent class.

I understand most things that were done for the trans class where clerics are concerned. I understand that HKs get boost in their damage, improved bash to do more damage, improved endure to make up for weaker heals, critical buff again for the damage and so on. I understand that Guardians get improved defense, improved heal and rejuvenate, rebirth buff and so on all because they are party-oriented.

Now, could someone, anyone please explain and rationalise why the Protect buff is only given to the HKs when the other party buff (Resist) is shared between both classes. The only way I can explain this is that it is a mistake and it MUST be fixed otherwise Guardians would be a rare breed in Fiesta.

[zues8844]

Hold up, didn't OS say there were releasing more content like in July?

Lets wait a bit and see :3

[Temari_and_Gaara]

they did? oo fuuun ^^

[Roseanna]

See this is the problem. We're guinea pigs for a while. Who knows what future cap raises will bring, what the mobs will hit like, what the next skills will be like, etc. We don't know if OOS made a typo somewhere (heal amount) or a mistake (protect being HK only). My archer's husband (cleric) and I have been debating this and we almost wonder if he might just not class change for a while, until he knows more. (If you can do that, I'd imagine that quest wouldn't ever disappear right? xD) To make such an important decision at level 100... that can have unknown affects on your future... >.< Though knowing OS, they'll probably release a level 100 class change switch pill or something in the cash shop.

[nemesis333]

I know the GMs usually lurk the forums so I would be interested to hear Silky or one of the other GMs take on this issue.

[Sepheera]

u would think it should be reversed knight get hammer guard get mace

That was my thinking too. I do alot of soloing and I've always used a hammer. But now I'm wondering if the skill points I assigned to 'Trip' are going to end up being lost.

[endlessly_unwielding]

They shouldn't really seperate the skills into class, especially if those skills are already learned. Instead, add new skills with greater effects. Like a new aoe, buff, or heal.

qft, I do hope an OS rep can come in here and add to this -- I would like to be able to pick at their info, see why these things were decided as they were

[Jessav]

Remember people, the prestige class division IS SUPPOSED TO BE A DILEMMA. Otherwise everyone would choose the better class.

We mages have to choose to improve our AOE skills or our 1 on 1 skills. And that also sucks because I like to do both, depending on if I solo or if I party.

Lucky me... I'm only lvl 61 at the moment so for me to reach 100 will take a lot of time, so I'll be seeing how people do with both wizard or warlock.

For those of you that are 90+, just consider all options and think on the long term like some said already. Don't think just about level 105, but level 120+. I totally agree at first the Guardian heal will be just a little better than the HK's, but in the long term it will be better.

[endlessly_unwielding]

even if they divided up the skills evenly, there would still be no 'better' class, not when it comes to cleric. It solely depends on what kind of cleric you like to be -- clank or party healer -- which most people know by level 20 what sort they want to be. However, as most of us are saying, the division of the skills seems to be done wrong, so that the party skills that should go to either the party healer, or both classes, seems to be going to the clank (who usually doesn't like to party with other people).

[Myn19]

even if they divided up the skills evenly, there would still be no 'better' class, not when it comes to cleric. It solely depends on what kind of cleric you like to be -- clank or party healer -- which most people know by level 20 what sort they want to be. However, as most of us are saying, the division of the skills seems to be done wrong, so that the party skills that should go to either the party healer, or both classes, seems to be going to the clank (who usually doesn't like to party with other people).

I thought clank was support >.>,clank is short for cleric tank,isn't the tank supposed to sacrifice damage for defence?If you spam heal you can keep aggro,at least it worked for me when I needed it lol.And isn't someone who is likely to die last the more reliable healer?

I like the dillema,gives something to think about ^^,thoguh I'll probably never reach that level ^^''.What I want is a mace,decent heals and def.The self revive would be pretty useless to me because I really don't die that often.
I think the protect skill should stay on HK skill list,think about it,they buff ppl and then get left in the dust for guardians,they wouldn't get parties if it weren't for this skill.

[drigr_x]

Yeah. If I can get 100 before next cap raise, I'll just choose not to prestige yet. Save it for later and only get the skills that are for both (that have Pally req instead of HK/Gaurd)

[kouturoq]

I'm so glad I capped mage after my cleric last cap... I saved myself from this problem. xD

I'll just leave cleric on hold while I lvl magey<3 Wizard here I come. x]]]]

*Cough* I really don't understand why only HK get protect. x.x; I hope for all you clerics, its a boo-boo on OOS's behalf.

[drigr_x]

I think we are all hoping boo-boo. Sure, I can udnerstand the HK would want it for solo because of the fact it increase dmg (kills faster) and increases def (lives longer). But if they really wanted to do a buff like this for HK it should NOT be the party buff we've had since like level 12 and is one of our only 2.

[nemesis333]

I think we are all hoping boo-boo. Sure, I can udnerstand the HK would want it for solo because of the fact it increase dmg (kills faster) and increases def (lives longer). But if they really wanted to do a buff like this for HK it should NOT be the party buff we've had since like level 12 and is one of our only 2.

HKs already get skills to improve their damage like improved bash and the crit buff which is understandable but to make the Protect buff specific to the HK is incomprehensible.

I am still waiting for a GM to shed some light on this issue.

[alcatraz2k0]

The Protect Buff is not the only thing that seems to be a little wrong with the Guardian. I am still puzzled as to why the Holy Knights (the solo cleric) are the only ones that have the Endure buff when that buff is essential to parties.

I also don't understand why there is such a small difference in the improvement of the Guardian heals. If you look at the improvement in the Bash skill that the Holy Knights get, it drastically improves from the pre-prestige Bash.

Another thing I have noticed is that the level 99 Heal heals for the same amount as the level 100 Guardian heal. This again must be a mistake.

Having said all this, it seems at least for now that the Guardian skills are bugged. I would really like to hear a GMs perspective on this.

[zoey199]

Well hold on....

What if its looked on like this....

Yes Guardians will be the favored healers eventually but then where does that leave HolyKnights? Noone will want a holyknight in their party if a Guardian can handle it all...

So possibly HolyKnight has that skill to keep it a desired party player.

Its not fair or right but it does make sense.

[drigr_x]

I thought the HK was supposed to be the time when a cleric can effeciently solo... Like I said earlier... We can only see 5 levels into prestige skills right now. Who knows how they change in the future. Even if I do make it to 100 before next cap raise, I'll stick with Pally and upgrade the Pally+ skills until I can see more.

[alcatraz2k0]

Well hold on....

What if its looked on like this....

Yes Guardians will be the favored healers eventually but then where does that leave HolyKnights? Noone will want a holyknight in their party if a Guardian can handle it all...

So possibly HolyKnight has that skill to keep it a desired party player.

Its not fair or right but it does make sense.

I don't mind if they want to give it to the Holy Knights but for the Guardians who are supposed to be reliant on parties, I honestly don't understand why they would not be given one of the most important party buffs.This must be a mistake because as of right now it is pointless to have a Guardian in party over a Holy Knight for the following reasons:
1. The Holy Knights have the stronger protect buff which makes the entire party stronger;
2. The Holy Knights can give better Endure buffs which makes your HP looks sexier;
3. There is a 100 HP difference in the strength of the heal for the Guardian and the Holy Knight; and
4. The Holy Knight can give the nifty crit buff.

[drigr_x]

I don't mind if they want to give it to the Holy Knights but for the Guardians who are supposed to be reliant on parties, I honestly don't understand why they would not be given one of the most important party buffs.This must be a mistake because as of right now it is pointless to have a Guardian in party over a Holy Knight for the following reasons:
1. The Holy Knights have the stronger protect buff which makes the entire party stronger;
2. The Holy Knights can give better Endure buffs which makes your HP looks sexier;
3. There is a 100 HP difference in the strength of the heal for the Guardian and the Holy Knight; and
4. The Holy Knight can give the nifty crit buff.

Crit buff? I thought there was a skill that was like bash but did like 4.5k crit dmg, not a whole buff... Or is this sill later on? *thinks about his end/spr build + crit buff* *drools*

[zoey199]

I don't mind if they want to give it to the Holy Knights but for the Guardians who are supposed to be reliant on parties, I honestly don't understand why they would not be given one of the most important party buffs.This must be a mistake because as of right now it is pointless to have a Guardian in party over a Holy Knight for the following reasons:
1. The Holy Knights have the stronger protect buff which makes the entire party stronger;
2. The Holy Knights can give better Endure buffs which makes your HP looks sexier;
3. There is a 100 HP difference in the strength of the heal for the Guardian and the Holy Knight; and
4. The Holy Knight can give the nifty crit buff.

And Guardians will be useless till next cap raise.

[Okachobi13]

Lol its funny how there are no guardians yet...but lets wait and see

[alcatraz2k0]

And Guardians will be useless till next cap raise.


This is unfortunate but true. It is interesting though how OS would be doing things like nerfing HGs for "balance" and something as important as class balance, namely this Holy Knight and Guardian imbalance, is not being addressed. I would really like to hear a GM respond to this issue. When are they going to fix the Guardians?

[drigr_x]

Hmmm... Maybe they're doing this on purpose? Try to force out one prestige class now and then switch it later to try and make an even amount of both in the future?

[xNimue]

I really don't think there is anything to fix. The way I see it, the two classes are balanced out.

Holy Knights ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guardians
Higher protect ------------------- Higher heals
Crit rate buff -------------------- Instant rez
Higher levels of bash ------------- Ability to Wield hammer
Dispel Purge --------------------- Dispel Pillar
Purification ---------------------- Dispel Field

I think the dilemma with the two classes is what direction you want to go in: be a pvp orientated cleric (HK) or be a pvm party based cleric (Guard). It's prestige. Time to make your minds up guys. Besides guys, it's not like you lose your 9x party buffs is it?

[drigr_x]

Isn't the "crit buff" just a one time use for the HK only (well until CD of course..) and the instant rev is only for use on guard (not another pt memeber for either skill)?

[ah_ikeepsitreal]

1. Guardians get rebirth
2. Guardians get the hammer which means more dmg if they choose to solo
3. Guardians get Higher level skill upgrade: Heal and Rejuvinate
4. Guardian's also get higher level upgrade on hammer skill which translates into Guardian's having higher single target dmg when using Benediction etc( duh no more bash upgrade:rolleyes:).

In this sense Guardian's solo as effectively if not better than Holy-Knights. Patch on extra def and str boost (<--protection, Endure-->) as well as Hp buff and wa-la....

*Looks at Holy-knights and notices a distinct minority, puts down Holy-Knight support banner and raises a new one in support of Guardian's*

Turning a new leaf :rolleyes:

Guardian's do not have enough. I don't understand why the support class Guardians doesn't get deadly blessing. I mean if you can cast it on others isn't this a support skill. We had protection since lvl 12 if I recall correctly and endure at lvl 47, why do we lose endure skill at 53 lvl's later. I don't want a dilemma in choosing my class, the best of both world is fine. Give me give me give me cookie cookie cookie

If the purple section of this post sounds like whining....

It is.


Don't like my opinion submit a ticket. Hint: Disruptive posting

[Andromeda]

1. Guardians get rebirth
2. Guardians get the hammer which means more dmg if they choose to solo
3. Guardians get Higher level skill upgrade: Heal and Rejuvinate
4. Guardian's also get higher level upgrade on hammer skill which translates into Guardian's having higher single target dmg when using Benediction etc( duh no more bash upgrade:rolleyes:).

In this sense Guardian's solo as effectively if not better than Holy-Knights. Patch on extra def and str boost (<--protection, Endure-->) as well as Hp buff and wa-la....

*Looks at Holy-knights and notices a distinct minority, puts down Holy-Knight support banner and raises a new one in support of Guardian's*

Turning a new leaf :rolleyes:

Guardian's do not have enough. I don't understand why the support class Guardians doesn't get deadly blessing. I mean if you can cast it on others isn't this a support skill. We had protection since lvl 12 if I recall correctly and endure at lvl 47, why do we lose endure skill at 53 lvl's later. I don't want a dilemma in choosing my class, the best of both world is fine. Give me give me give me cookie cookie cookie

If the purple section of this post sounds like whining....

It is.


Don't like my opinion submit a ticket. Hint: Disruptive posting

Guardians lose the Bash skill upgrades so Guardians will never be able to solo as good as HKs.

[ah_ikeepsitreal]

Guardians lose the Bash skill upgrades so Guardians will never be able to solo as good as HKs.


If you look at the amount of HP guardians can heal in comparison to HK's, the increase isn't that great. And if you're a good enough cleric, you can still look after your party with slightly lower levelled heals. I guess it's all up to how you play your character.


I think if you look at the amount of dmg a Holy-knight can dish out in comparison to a Guardian on a single target, the decrease or lost of the bash skill at this point isn't that great. If you are a good enough cleric you can still kill slightly as effective as a Holy-knight. (:eek::eek::eek:)

Note: Yes, the focus of the topic is party skills, however this directly relates to soloing, y? Holy-knights...

Turned a new leaf: Go Guardians!

[Andromeda]

I think if you look at the amount of dmg a Holy-knight can dish out in comparison to a Guardian on a single target, the decrease or lost of the bash skill at this point isn't that great. If you are a good enough cleric you can still kill slightly as effective as a Holy-knight. (:eek::eek::eek:)

Note: Yes, the focus of the topic is party skills, however this directly relates to soloing, y? Holy-knights...

Turned a new leaf: Go Guardians!



In this sense Guardian's solo as effectively if not better than Holy-Knights. Patch on extra def and str boost (<--protection, Endure-->) as well as Hp buff and wa-la....

You're the one who said it :)

[autchiewicz]

guardians should have a buff that increases stats instead xD,"Power of Guardian Love"

[devilia]

I skipped over a couple of post *cough* Chill Pill *cough*. I really think that Guardian's should share protection and endure and only the new skills should be split. I'm not sure about bash and trip however. To me Cleric's buff and heal and once in a while throw a few punches.

[ah_ikeepsitreal]

You're the one who said it :)




In this sense Guardian's solo as effectively if not better than Holy-Knights. Patch on extra def and str boost (<--protection, Endure-->) as well as Hp buff and wa-la.... <-- sarcastic statement


I apologize Sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet, I sincerely apologize. I'm not being sarcastic at all, I am sincerely sorry.

[Andromeda]

I apologize Sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet, I sincerely apologize. I'm not being sarcastic at all, I am sincerely sorry.

Funny thing is I ignored that sentence and only looked at the first 4 points you wrote before replying

Wouldn't make a difference Hammers are so easily over rated and Maces are so under estimated.

The extra STR boost would have to be very significant if Guardians were about to solo as "effectively" as HKs

[darthnish]

ah ok well imo:

HKs are build to heal squishies, better def and hp, help archers and mages and since they have a lower hp better heals and reju arent needed, so if you find yorself in a duo with an archer or mage go HK

Guardians on the other hand are the heavy healers of tanks, any tanking party should have a guardian on board, i'm assuming they will get the better def and hp , so can hold their own if tank looses aggro, also a tank would naturally have a high hp and def, so a little more from endure or protect wont matter that much, what they would benefit from is the better heals.

[alcatraz2k0]

I really don't think there is anything to fix. The way I see it, the two classes are balanced out.

Holy Knights ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guardians
Higher protect ------------------- Higher heals (the Protect increase is significant, the Heal increase is not)
Crit rate buff -------------------- Instant rez
Higher levels of bash ------------- Ability to Wield hammer
Dispel Purge --------------------- Dispel Pillar (Dispel Purge has a 3 minute cooldown while Dispel Pillar has a 5 minute cooldown)
Purification ---------------------- Dispel Field

I think the dilemma with the two classes is what direction you want to go in: be a pvp orientated cleric (HK) or be a pvm party based cleric (Guard). It's prestige. Time to make your minds up guys. Besides guys, it's not like you lose your 9x party buffs is it?

Gin you are being a little hypocritical here if you don't mind me saying so because if you go back to an earlier post you made you yourself said that there is not big a difference between the HK Heal and the Guardian post prestige Heal. You said words to the effect that the HKs weaker Heals wouldn't matter if you know how play your character and even pointed out that the disparity in the healing amount is not that great to put the HK at a disadvantage.

The same cannot be said for the post prestige HK skills. The damage increase of Bash is significant and the Protect Buff increase is significant post-prestige and it is ridiculous to think that 9x protect buff will continue to be sufficient.

My primary concern is not the Bash and not even so much the Endure buff. I am however concerned that the Protect Buff was not given to the Guardians (the party based cleric) and also the fact that the HKs get a significant increase in their Bash skill but the Guardian get a measly 100HP increase in the Heal strength post-prestige.

You still think the Guardians aren't broken? I understand that you are an HK and would have a biased perspective but if you analyse it more closely the Guardians need fixing and need it fast. It is no coincidence that there are currently 3 HKs on my server and I have yet to hear of 1 Guardian on any server. I myself am on the verge of the prestige and I would not mind going HK or Guardian but it just seems right now that the HK is the ONLY class to pick because all the pros are stacked in favour of the HK.

[darthnish]

i honestly would prefer a guardian in the party, they can take on mutiple roles, from healer, support and to tank.

[drigr_x]

I should go Guard just cause no one else will... When I get there as the only one, everyone will want me. HK's get Endure.. "HK pt me pl0x?" *gets pt* "buff pl0x" *gets buff and leaves pt for guardian that can heal more of his buffed hp. We still do have a level of endure as Guards... And besides... We get that increaed end right? Making guards better for clanking ^^

[HeroicAce]

well speaking as a mage i will be partying with guardians and not even worrying about holyknights. they just arent what i need, and i have a cleric partner that i know is going guardian so ill be set when the two of us reach there.

[darthnish]

as a mage i;d advice getting a hk buddy, better def+hp is vital for a mage, and you guys have the lowest hp so heals wont be a problem

[HeroicAce]

trust me. i want heals and def from my cleric. i have my reasons even if it seems odd, but im pretty sure im not the only crazy mage with these thoughts. at least not on teva.


*edit* just realized it sounds odd when you read heals and def, so to clarify i mean i need a tougher cleric and one with better heals.

[Okachobi13]

Well Holy Knights get the protect buff and endure as a replacement of not getting new heals and rejuvinate. People that think this is unfair would u want protect and endure instead of heal and rejunvinate if so... choose to be Holy Knight... :)

[darthnish]

ah well one way i see this would work out is if she pulls abd holds aggro while you nova + inferno, since guardians get hp and def bonuses they will make strudy tanks

i'm getting my wifey to go hk cause kiting wise i would prefer better def and hp,however guardian armour is sexier, chocies,choices Dx

[HeroicAce]

yeah for archers id say you need an HK. my reasons are that me and my cleric both tank. either i pull and she heals me for tons, pulls a small bit, and then kills them while healing both of us. the other thing is she will pull and then ill go stir crazy with attacks. both cases result in her needing good def and lots and lots of heals. the amount of hp from endure or def from protect i get doesn't matter nearly as much as how much of the load she can take off me and keep us both healed. right now im 88 and she is 89 so we arent exactly sure how it will all play out, but we do know what aspects of our characters we use and really need.

[darthnish]

ah well i love the rebirth skill, it would have like so much uses in guild wars and kqs, like it took you for ever to kill that fully charmed fighter dude and when he died he was insta reved and you have to do it all over again :3

[HeroicAce]

true that. if i was a cleric id quicken and use that skill on the two most annoying fighters i know...... and then watch as people started shouting insults into the air as they rose from the dead.

[darthnish]

ah the possibilities 8D

[alcatraz2k0]

I think a lot of you are missing the point. Why did they make the Protect party buff class specific but the other Party buff (Resist) is available for both classes. This to me does not make much sense. They might as well make both party buffs available for both classes.

Another thing is that the post prestige HK upgrades like Bash show a dramatic increase befitting of the prestige change. On the other hand, the Guardian Heal strength only increases by 100HP? I know some of you have said you would go Guardian for stronger heals but a reality check here, that big upgrade you are looking forward to is a measly 100HP increase.

Who still thinks the Guardians aren't broken? As it currently stands there is no balance between the HK and Guardian which is why it is no coincidence that all the clerics who have done the prestige change on my server and the other servers are ALL HKs.

Come on Silky or one of you other GMs I would really like your take on this issue.

[zoey199]

Possibly this is just how their designed?

I'm just going to plvl a cleric to lvl 100 when i cap and go Guardian just to have one lol.

[drigr_x]

Well if you think about the upgrades from full empowerment... Guards may get a lot higher of a + to their heal than the HK does to their bash. And I don't think the difference in your buff's will matter much when you're that high of a level. Keep upgrading your heals so you can keep any tank alive or keep upgrading your buffs so much that your meager 9x heal can't even keep him at full health? Once the tank has been buffed they really have no reason to PT with an HK over a Guard cause the Guards has a MUCH better chance on keeping them alive.

[Thasmudyan]

Few thoughts:

- I think people are underestimating how useful Rebirth could end up being. We won't know for sure until there's a Guardian, but if it prevents exp and/or buff loss, I can't imagine anyone in a party who'd rather have increased defense and HP over the security of a one-use get out of death free buff. Even if the death does cost EXP and scrolls, at least the dead player will revive in time to get exp from the pull, and the cleric won't have to stop healing the rest of the party in order to revive.

- The combination of Rebirth + bigger heals will mean that a party can take bigger risks with a Guardian healing than with a Holy Knight. Sure, a competent HK won't struggle to keep a party alive, but larger heals and instant Revives will give a Guardian a larger margin for error.

- Holy Knights do not gain some magical ultra-solo ability. They'll solo about as well as clerics do now. Which is to say, one mob at a time. Slower than archers and fighters, but faster than mages. Guardians will be able to solo about as well, since hammers tend to be more damaging to the kinds of mobs clerics solo against. Still, I'd say HK ends up being the better solo cleric due to having Bash upgrades.

- Both cleric types are support characters. Guardians are primary healing support, Holy Knights are buff support (with Endure, Protect, and Deadly Blessing) and secondary healers. Both will be useful in parties and parties will want one of each if they get 2 clerics.

- Holy Knights do look like the better class, at least for this cap raise, because there's not much to fight that really challenges level 100+ characters yet (and therefore not much need for the extra healing and the rebirth ability of Guardians).

- I still can't decide which class I'd rather be, and that to me says they split the skills pretty well.

[drigr_x]

I'm thinking about more of a Guard now... As I try and fight my side, I prove that Guards are pretty good. As for bash upgrade being more than heals... Well bash is now with a mace for prestige (with lowwer base damage) and the bleed is less than trip.... So with the other things I said on heals, it really seems that the Guardian will be a better PT helper and also in the long run.