Level Restrictions in Instance Dungeons

[FennecFox]

Okay, forum dwellers, this has me scratching my head...

In the dungeons and the abysses, it seems to be generally thought that the level restrictions aren't narrow enough. The high end of the limit makes it much too easy to farm bosses/pk/etc to the detriment of other parties/individuals. The instance dungeons, however, much like the KQs, have a limited number of people in them at any given time. You're only there with your party and any other parties are (in effect) in a different dungeon while they play. So much like players in KKP A can't kill mobs in KKP B, players in an instance dungeon are unable to act in a way that is detrimental to anyone else's party. But the instance dungeons are level restricted.

Doesn't this seem a bit backwards? It makes more sense to limit levels where people could be jerks and allow a wider range of levels where they can't. I simply don't see the benefit to limiting the levels of the instance dungeons rather than imposing stricter limits on the abysses and the dungeons.

[someguy1010]

It wont matter there differcent floors depending on your lvl and how long it will it take to get to the top you will be there for a while also maybe the boss wont drops weapons which i doubt

This will be epic a group of lvl 20 with +9 armor and wep charms and everything
dieing on the first floors fun eh

[oakrivermark]

I don't exactly understand what is being said here (and heck I am 40 years old), but it sounds like you don't think there should be Lvl restrictions on the the new dungeon. It also sounds like you're saying that we won't be able to figure this out for ourselves and we need your professionalism for help, because we are "NOOBS". If this is not what you are trying to say please forgive me, I apoligize for any inappropriate comments, but if that is what you mean then:
Let me learn not to be a so called "noob". I think some how we will manage; and if we can't, then we will ask for your expertise.

[AParadiseLost]

I don't exactly understand what is being said here (and heck I am 40 years old), but it sounds like you don't think there should be Lvl restrictions on the the new dungeon. It also sounds like you're saying that we won't be able to figure this out for ourselves and we need your professionalism for help, because we are "NOOBS". If this is not what you are trying to say please forgive me, I apoligize for any inappropriate comments, but if that is what you mean then:
Let me learn not to be a so called "noob". I think some how we will manage; and if we can't, then we will ask for your expertise.

Fennec is talking about the purpose of level limits.

Within the context of level limits for balanced pvp and pve - Fennec is pointing out that it is silly to be placing level limits on the Instance Dungeon as opposed to reevaluating the existing level limits in the abyss and dungeons.

Fennec is saying that the max level limit is too wide in the abyss and dungeon. As in - for the 3x dungeon - the closer one is to 46 (ignoring the academy glitch) the higher the chances are of one being able to dominate that area in both pvp and pve. This domination may - and has - led to the abuse of pking, boss farming, etc.

Now - contrast the level limits with the instance dungeon. An area where - as Fennec brought up KQ's as an example - there is not competition within the environment. A successful KQ is a success for everyone involved, ignoring the quests within that quest.

Instance dungeons removes even that potential conflict of interest by presenting an environment with only one party with one goal.

So . . . Fennec reiterates by saying -


Doesn't this seem a bit backwards? It makes more sense to limit levels where people could be jerks and allow a wider range of levels where they can't. I simply don't see the benefit to limiting the levels of the instance dungeons rather than imposing stricter limits on the abysses and the dungeons.

Fennec is saying that imposing level limits when there is not a potential for exploitation of the environment or other players should not be considered when preexisting environments are exploitable in both pve and pvp when utilizing the existing upper level limits.

Please correct me if I am wrong Fennec.

[oakrivermark]

I stand corrected, thanks for clarifying. I am after all 40 years old. The mind is a little feeble at times lol.

[YoshimaruOrona]

If we had to pick between stricter abyss/dungeon limits or stricter instance dungeon limits, I'd easily choose abyss/dungeon.

However, we've pleaded our case on that for several months and there has been no action or confirmation regarding the possibility of the original limits being re-instated.

[drigr_x]

And if they don't restrict Instance limits we'll ave 8x's+ farming it for their low friends/acad mems/guildies.

[legendking3]

Okay, forum dwellers, this has me scratching my head...

In the dungeons and the abysses, it seems to be generally thought that the level restrictions aren't narrow enough. The high end of the limit makes it much too easy to farm bosses/pk/etc to the detriment of other parties/individuals. The instance dungeons, however, much like the KQs, have a limited number of people in them at any given time. You're only there with your party and any other parties are (in effect) in a different dungeon while they play. So much like players in KKP A can't kill mobs in KKP B, players in an instance dungeon are unable to act in a way that is detrimental to anyone else's party. But the instance dungeons are level restricted.

Doesn't this seem a bit backwards? It makes more sense to limit levels where people could be jerks and allow a wider range of levels where they can't. I simply don't see the benefit to limiting the levels of the instance dungeons rather than imposing stricter limits on the abysses and the dungeons.

the level limit on instance doungens is so you wont have capped players farming it and bringing along a low lvl to make the last hit so there will be drops. the limits here are placed for a different reason than the limits on abyss

[ego_trip]

I agree about instance level limits, as do most of you.

I ALSO agree that for the same reasons you need those limits, you need tighter limits on abyss dungeons.

I say this because there are certain benchmark levels which change the game. For instance, low 43 has deva. 60 has nova. 47 has cleric buff. When these come around they drastically change the way kq's and dungeons are run. Take MD kq for instance, now that a lvl 60 can get in, that means there's a chance of nova, which in the right circumstances can sway the game alot.


Basically what I'm saying is this: Don't just slap a 15 lvl limit on all dungeons without looking at each of them individually, and analyzing why that limit is there, and what is going to change gameplay by putting those caps on.

[drigr_x]

Doesn't Nova in MD help though? And I hardly see anyone in MD that is 60. Maybe 1 person every day or two...

[zephyr_wind]

Doesn't Nova in MD help though? And I hardly see anyone in MD that is 60. Maybe 1 person every day or two...

I think she meant that having someone level 60 in MD can determine the chances of fail or success. Having a level 60 mage with nova would help a lot with mob control, which is usually( in my experience) when things go down hill. That it's one level, but it can make a big difference. The same principle can apply with abysses and dungeons. Certain classes get certain skills that can give them a big advantage in an abyss in which they are higher level than most of it's inhabitants.

[drigr_x]

Yeah it is. We failed MD right before maint because our only level 51 archer decided to leech at the end so mob control was left to the overwhelmed tanks... Which just happened to be clerics...

[doritosbandito]

if everyone would do their jobs in kq instead of a cleric or archer trying to tank then maybe i mean i dint know but just maybe more kq's could be won

[ego_trip]

It was just an examle drig. Just saying having/not having certain milestones in dungeons/kqs can change the way they are run.

Just plain level number shouldn't be a broad cutoff for everything. a 15 lvl difference in the 4x dungeon doesn't matter as much as it does in the 2x dungeon, etc. Each one should be analyzed for it's differences, and adjusted individually, not just throw a dart at a board and change all dungeons to whatever number you hit.

[doritosbandito]

hmmm havent seen spookiness on here in some time but drigr_x acts just like her just wonder if they are the same person.............if so to all trying to outdo that person good luck they know it all and cant learn anymore

[link8265]

lol lets get back on topic ppl this isnt a kq forum :P and yea ppl need to DO THIER JOBS!!!

[drigr_x]

if everyone would do their jobs in kq instead of a cleric or archer trying to tank then maybe i mean i dint know but just maybe more kq's could be won
Well when there are no fighters that can survive MD's attacks the 55+ clerics have to take the slack.
It was just an examle drig. Just saying having/not having certain milestones in dungeons/kqs can change the way they are run.

Just plain level number shouldn't be a broad cutoff for everything. a 15 lvl difference in the 4x dungeon doesn't matter as much as it does in the 2x dungeon, etc. Each one should be analyzed for it's differences, and adjusted individually, not just throw a dart at a board and change all dungeons to whatever number you hit.
Yeah. I understand that. Isn't BoD like a 50-66 dungeon? That means that it wraps around a job change where new skills are added and can really chage who can do the dungeon better.

hmmm havent seen spookiness on here in some time but drigr_x acts just like her just wonder if they are the same person.............if so to all trying to outdo that person good luck they know it all and cant learn anymore
Hmm... For one, I am not spookiness. And I'm still lost on if you're trying to insult me or not...

[doritosbandito]

wasnt trying to insult anyone,,, but if i did take a closer look maybe what i said fit you.just saying. however i wasnt trying to offend no one

[drigr_x]

I have no idea who you're even compairing me to >.>

[resigood]

i dont understand, how can a lvl 20 go against lvl 50 mobs?
what lvl are the mobs anyway?
they the same lvl as the highest lvl in your pt?

if the mobs are all like lvl 45 - 50 then god knows why lvl 20s are allowed in
i've only been in dragon tomb once and the mobs were HARD as hell -.-
if this 1 is even close to being the same, you'd need more than good luck

[rivenil]

The problem with an unresricted dungeon is this. Basically you give a licence to exploit the leveling system i.e. Unabated pleveling which for me takes a LOT of the fun out of the game. I believe this one dungeon has so far been nothing but a way to baby the noobs by leveling them WAY too fast. I went in on the back of a party that was already inside just to take a look around I had accepted only 1 of the quests I'm level 38 and I took one of the zombie quests along I killed the zombies nearly alone and recieved 75k! just for like 6 zombies! to me that was ridiculously generous. So the argument for level restrictions becomes this...Make it fair and challenging for everyone and don't allow someone to cakewalk through because they have lev 9x friends who are willing to waste time handing the dungeon to them on a platter. I would like to see a restriction on the dungeon of level 40 then make another dungeon for 41-60, 61-80 81-105 etc. and allow ONLY the levels it was designed for in NOONE over or under may pass. Make the players work for all of that crazy exp. =)


RIVENIL level 3X Mage Epith

[ego_trip]

The odd part of the dungeon right now is that it's new, which means at lvl 45, you can get all 20something quests at once. This obviously isn't how newer players will have it. They will get a quest every couple levels, which will not jump them up 3 levels in a trip as it does to us now.

As for level 20 fighting a lvl 50 monster... well they don't have a quest to kill the boss until lvl 40. They can go in, do their quests, and either leave, or test their luck trying harder monsters until their dungeon time expires.