non-flame critics thread

[Dragonfly77]

Let's try this again, kay? OS closed off the other critics threads because of flames, so before you post something that sounds like it's going to spark a flame war, is insulting, whatever, read over your comment and edit it before posting it. It is possible to make a post that isn't aimed to degrade..*koff*

And don't flame. If you really want os to listen to your comment, make it bearable and readable.

And to make a point, I wanna get back to my comment that got lost in a thread that was locked down.
I like Fiesta..it's a fun game and has a great community. But the game is broken, and pointing out that a customer is not satisfied with their product is only constructive criticism. (except for whining threads that do nothing but whine. Everyone hates those)

Sure, maybe os can't do everything; they aren't the producers of Fiesta, but they're supposed to make sure the game runs smoothly and do what they can in their power. They do a pretty good job with answering to requests. We asked for an official statement of bugs and glitches, Nekopon set up a thread. Silky and Joker are haunting the forums, popping up and answering questions. They did fix a chunk of lag.

But the game is still bugged up and unbalanced. And I think patches are only supposed to fix bugs, and not make new ones. O.o

/discuss
rawr

[bigj3234]

I was literally typing a response when that one was deleted....

Anyway, OS (or OOS, whatever) needs to test these patches before they implement them, so as not to cause bugs by fixing bugs. I'm with the one guy that said a patch every week is too much.

OS should get the current bugs fixed without adding content, items, etc. and then go back to doing it every other week (still maintenance for other stuff, just not a patch every week). Perhaps that will give them time to properly test things.

I am also HIGHLY upset that Teva is not getting compensation for the 24 hours of downtime. Is it really so much to ask that we get a CS extension?

On a positive note, I am pleased with the recent attempts at player communication. There is still much room for improvement, but you have to start somewhere.

[AParadiseLost]

I agree with you Dragonfly77, recently there has been a marked improvement in the communication between Outspark and the consumers. At the same time whether this marked improvement is satisfactory, promising, deserved, or even consistent are all still yet to be seen.


My main contention is that there is a huge disparity in what the consumer wants in communication from Outspark, and what the reality of the communication is.

Somewhere in between these two points, is the "satisfaction" of the consumer. Be it in the form of continuing to pay, continuing to advertise, continuing to play, or what have you, satisfaction varies from individual to individual.

While the forum, as the game, consists of various individuals - who have differing opinions, especially when they have different experiences in join dates, play times, level, experiences in various MMORPGS, F2P/P2P, etc., - and a seemingly endless supply of complaints, there is a commonality here.

It is the communication between Outspark and the consumers. Most of the critics are softening their stance as a result of Nepo, and her as of yet consistent feedback. When Alden started the feedback thread - it was well received.

There will always be discussions on balance - both in cash shop and in game. That doesn't invalidate future discussion, nor does it make it moot.

There will always be discussions on exactly what role Outspark play in the developmental aspects of Fiesta, in addition to how handle hosting it. That doesn't invalidate future discussion, nor does it make it moot.

Ideally for the consumer - if there is a question, it can be directly answered by the staff.

For example, what the experience I remember the most between Celtic_Princess, either right before or right after she became a CL - was when I posted on the forums inquiring as to whether or not anyone else had an issue with purchasing from the spark cash store. My question was not a basic question that could be found in a database - and furthermore, answering it required time on the responder's part. Celtic purchased something, and answered my question. What I appreciated about her role, wasn't just that she responded, she responded to an issue whose answer could be found without effort.

Now, answering each individual question asap is not practical. Time, confidentiality, not knowing, and other factors prevent this. Communication is not just about answers, it comes in the form of answers, responses, or just satisfaction.

Basically when I talk about communication from the staff, its about the three current modes of contacting the staff. Be it in game, through threads or through tickets, there has been consistent complaints regarding how they are handled.

The forums are littered with discussions on how threads are laid to the wayside, staff in game are non responsive, and tickets are not duly responded nor are the pre formatted responses (or PFR's as alden likes to call them) appropriate.

Stop - and take a minute to reevaluate that last statement. I think both parties can acknowledge that the forums have these threads, and that these incidents do occur. Now - why these incidents occur, thats another discussion.

Outspark needs to address the perception that these issues exists, and if it can't change the reality of it, then in however fashion it can find to change this image should be a goal.

Of course - who is to say that all of this grief is not an intentional damage that Outspark is banking on that will allow them to focus more on viral advertisements and in recruiting more users.

[Celtic_Princess]

I hear a lot about staff/player communication and everyone seems to have varying ideas of what it involves. Could you elaborate on what you expect from staff in terms of communication?

[WolfAngel9414]

>.< I wasn't that picky about the original price of avatar items... but I was about enhancing. I rarely enhanced because it always ended up costing more than I could afford; friends would finish the +9 for me. NOW it's even MORE expensive? Are you kidding? lol :/ People bought stacks upon stacks of eyes and now they're going to be paying double for the same thing. Enhancing is already hard...

I, personally, will not be purchasing extenders until the prices go back down (if ever they do). It was about $7-8 for a 30 day extender before, now it's a little over $10-11 .. and I can buy so much more with that. I really loved my extenders, but I don't have the money to fling around for something that didn't used to be that pricey. Seriously, the game crashes and there are a million & one bugs...and the prices go up? .-. explanation pl0x ...

If this is considered flaming let me know and I'll make it sound more cheerful.

[defcom]

Hmm I really like the fact that the GMs are posting patch notes and addressing the player concerns via forums. Even their short time IG is nice every now and then.

Basically, its not so much as quantity/length of their forum posts that I'm looking for when it comes to communication. What I'm looking for is the feeling that their presence is felt. I don't need a long detailed discription of every little thing they are doing to the game to try to fix/improve/add things (though it maybe very nice to have, but not neccesary). In fact, I bet many people wouldn't know the inner workings of the game, so best to let the GMs do their thing.

GM Nekopan is doing a wonderful job...why? B/c she pops into the forums and leave small comments. It doesn't matter if she can't fix something right away...what matters is that her presence signals the effort of the collective staff to fix what was wrong and to address a concern. I want to stress that GMs aren't all uber professional computer programers that can write hundreds of pages of game code to fix a problem.

I wasn't a huge forum goer until recently when i found the urge to type to my heart's desire, but the time i do spend on the forums I've been able to spot several GM posts on threads that players have made. So GM communication isn't as bad as many people make it out to be.

[bigj3234]

I hear a lot about staff/player communication and everyone seems to have varying ideas of what it involves. Could you elaborate on what you expect from staff in terms of communication?

Well, case in point, the downtime over the 4th. I get that it's a major holiday and all. I really didn't expect it to be fixed until Monday. However, the lack of anyone saying ANYTHING since it came back up is disconcerting.

Now, I don't think we should get a detailed list of what failed and why, but certainly at least an answer to whether or not we get reimbursed for the time during which it was impossible to use our CS items. Or perhaps an EXP boost. Or something.

It is nice that Neko and Straega have a list going, but how about using Daevor's (sorry if I spelled your name wrong) suggestion and make a locked thread that simply lists the current known issues.

[defcom]

>.< I wasn't that picky about the original price of avatar items... but I was about enhancing. I rarely enhanced because it always ended up costing more than I could afford; friends would finish the +9 for me. NOW it's even MORE expensive? Are you kidding? lol :/ People bought stacks upon stacks of eyes and now they're going to be paying double for the same thing. Enhancing is already hard...

I, personally, will not be purchasing extenders until the prices go back down (if ever they do). It was about $7-8 for a 30 day extender before, now it's a little over $10-11 .. and I can buy so much more with that. I really loved my extenders, but I don't have the money to fling around for something that didn't used to be that pricey. Seriously, the game crashes and there are a million & one bugs...and the prices go up? .-. explanation pl0x ...

If this is considered flaming let me know and I'll make it sound more cheerful.

I have to agree with you about the enhancing :( I don't go about enhancing all my equipment. In fact I rarely ever do it and the one time I did...it was quite difficult and expensive. I also needed help from my IG hubby and he was only able to get the BK xbow to +6.

I really don't know why they've raised the prices of enhancement stones and kept success rates so low. I get that the higher grade an item is, naturally it'd be more challenging to do, but if it takes a person like $40-50 worth of RL cash just to get one item enhanced all the way...thats waaay expensive.

The main things that I ever spend on are outfits and assesories that look cute, but even now I'm reconsidering making future purchases cuz I'd just feel guilty taking chunks out of my wallet for only a few days worth of quality entertainment. Especially now when the game isn't in top condition.

I've also never used extenders :/ i really want to try it out for my archer cuz she's so squishy, but I guess that day won't come if things keep going the way they are.

[WolfAngel9414]

Extenders are addictive and more than just USEFUL ... >.< My squishy pr str fighter can solo SO MUCH better with them..but when his 30 day extendies run out..well he's just screwed :x not buying him more. He's sexy, but not worth it :x

[bigj3234]

I have to agree with you about the enhancing :( I don't go about enhancing all my equipment. In fact I rarely ever do it and the one time I did...it was quite difficult and expensive. I also needed help from my IG hubby and he was only able to get the BK xbow to +6.

I really don't know why they've raised the prices of enhancement stones and kept success rates so low. I get that the higher grade an item is, naturally it'd be more challenging to do, but if it takes a person like $40-50 worth of RL cash just to get one item enhanced all the way...thats waaay expensive.

The main things that I ever spend on are outfits and assesories that look cute, but even now I'm reconsidering making future purchases cuz I'd just feel guilty taking chunks out of my wallet for only a few days worth of quality entertainment. Especially now when the game isn't in top condition.

I've also never used extenders :/ i really want to try it out for my archer cuz she's so squishy, but I guess that day won't come if things keep going the way they are.

I don't enhance because I've always thought they were too expensive. When I want a +9 I buy it pre-enhanced or find someone to enhance for me. My purchases generally revolve around vending, although I have stocked up on liberty mounts. I might buy a perm mover for my Archer after the liberty mounts run out.

As for extenders... it's a waste of money for me to buy the 1/7/30 day versions since I don't get to play for any stretch of time. I like the 2 hours ones (I bought two stacks first time they were Catch of the Day). They work nicely for when I need for KQ, or I want to solo in a particularly difficult area.

All in all, I would like to see the 5% crit suits lower priced.

[Celtic_Princess]

Ah, Bigj I was out of town on the fourth, it sounds like I missed some things. I can certainly understand wanting at least some sort of staff communication (at least to alert you that its being worked on) in that situation.

So, from what I'm understanding so far...in terms of staff communication you all would like more communication not about whats coming...but about whats being fixed and when?

[bigj3234]

Ah, Bigj I was out of town on the fourth, it sounds like I missed some things. I can certainly understand wanting at least some sort of staff communication (at least to alert you that its being worked on) in that situation.

So, from what I'm understanding so far...in terms of staff communication you all would like more communication not about whats coming...but about whats being fixed and when?


Neko was very helpful, as far as I can tell (she was up all night) even though she was unable to fix it. She was still checking it, trying to contact those that could fix it, and posted several times throughout the night. However, no answers to several threads after the fact.

I personally would much rather be told about what needs fixing, and, when possible, when they plan on fixing it. I would be okay if they left the "when" out, since 23498710283 flame threads would pop up if they missed the "deadline".

It seems the problems now are all bug-related, not content-related. Everyone except 7x and 9x+ seems to have plenty of content.... now only if said content was bug free....

[AParadiseLost]

Ah, Bigj I was out of town on the fourth, it sounds like I missed some things. I can certainly understand wanting at least some sort of staff communication (at least to alert you that its being worked on) in that situation.

So, from what I'm understanding so far...in terms of staff communication you all would like more communication not about whats coming...but about whats being fixed and when?


A conversation.

It's nice to know whats coming, its better to know whats being fixed and when, its best to know that we are hearing each other.

[cercia]

So, from what I'm understanding so far...in terms of staff communication you all would like more communication not about whats coming...but about whats being fixed and when?


This is correct.

As bigj said, Nekopon posted that she was aware of the problem and trying to make headway into fixing it. Even though she wasn't able to personally, it was excellent, and you can see the fanthread that she has now.


To elaborate on some of the things I'd like to see in terms of staff communication:

1) a bit more of their plans.
This is mostly when it is obvious action is going to be taken (see 45 purples), and all we really want is to know just what action is going to be taken, and the specifics thereof.

2) a list of bugs with whether or not they've received a patch for it.
I admit this one is an ideal, and probably stupid. Considering I do programming/debugging myself, I can see how such a list would be a hassle to maintain. However, all I'm asking for is something along the lines of:
Glitch/Status
Shutian "Stronger" quest not showing up/duplicated; awaiting fix
to be replaced with
Shutian "Stronger" quest not showing up/fix 1 received; in queue for testing
then
Shutian "Stronger" quest not showing up/testing fix 1
maybe
Shutian "Stronger" quest not showing up/faulty fix 1 sent back; awaiting fix 2
and finally
Shutian "Stronger" quest not showing up/bug to be removed in upcoming patch

Again, I think that's pretty much as far from information that they want to give out as you can get, but it is what I would like to see. Note that not a single date for release/finishing testing is mentioned, because I think such information would generate too many flames (as was also mentioned).

[kouseketra]

Dragonfly77, thank you so, so, so much for making this thread. I sincerely hope this one doesn't end up derailed or flamed. I'm currently trying to boil all my concerns, concerns I see mirrored by my friends and peers, down and condense them into one fairly reasonable, digestible novel essay. I'm deciding that when completed, even if it doesn't make a difference, as long as I've actually aired out my concerns in text, and know it was read, I'll feel better.

Writing things out can be so therapeutic.

Peace and <3

[Celtic_Princess]

A conversation.

It's nice to know whats coming, its better to know whats being fixed and when, its best to know that we are hearing each other.

Sounds reasonable, but remember that there are thousands of us...and less than 50 of them. It makes addressing everyones concerns a bit more difficult. Would it be fair to say that you want an increase in communication but that you don't expect every thread to contain a staff response?

Also, is there a better way that we can report bugs so that its easier for staff to see the feedback that you leave? Even checking bug reporting there's a large number of threads on the same topic to go through. Checking them all takes a lot of time. How can this be improved?

[bigj3234]

Sounds reasonable, but remember that there are thousands of us...and less than 50 of them. It makes addressing everyones concerns a bit more difficult. Would it be fair to say that you want an increase in communication but that you don't expect every thread to contain a staff response?

Also, is there a better way that we can report bugs so that its easier for staff to see the feedback that you leave? Even checking bug reporting there's a large number of threads on the same topic to go through. Checking them all takes a lot of time. How can this be improved?



It would be too much to ask for them to respond to EVERY thread, or even half of them. It's easy to tell which are the "hot topics" and would be nice to see responses on half of those.

Perhaps they could give us a reporting form of some kind, accessible through the Forums. I personally have had issues with submitting tickets. Or, present us with a standard format for a bug report thread. Other than that, all the really big bugs are spewed forth everywhere in General Discussion and it can be difficult even for players to decipher.

Maybe when creating a thread in Bug Reporting you only fill out the form... or something... only half-finished thoughts on that one. From a programming perspective it shouldn't be too difficult.

[AParadiseLost]

Sounds reasonable, but remember that there are thousands of us...and less than 50 of them. It makes addressing everyones concerns a bit more difficult. Would it be fair to say that you want an increase in communication but that you don't expect every thread to contain a staff response?

Also, is there a better way that we can report bugs so that its easier for staff to see the feedback that you leave? Even checking bug reporting there's a large number of threads on the same topic to go through. Checking them all takes a lot of time. How can this be improved?



I have not asked for every thread to contain a staff response - my first post in this thread explains it.

There have been plenty of great and peaceful threads that go unanswered here. It has been claimed that they go unanswered but not unread.

It is extremely frustrating to begin the cyclical cycle of where OS begins to improve, only to fall short of the mark, and decline even further. Only to have Outspark come back later and use an excuse. I posted a parody of how the discussion occurs in threads between staff and posters and got a mouthful from someone, so I don't even know if I can reiterate myself.

To be honest - satisfying the consumer should be a priority of Outspark.

And if it wasn't so painful, I would find it humorous - that you ask for suggestions from the public, when the forum is literally littered with input. And the driving force behind all these people are that they feel unheard. And you are here asking how Outspark can make these individuals be heard.

Having your feed back on this specific topic is cathartic at best now. The role of a CL has never been adequately explained. While CL's are quick to offer reasons why things happen to counter critics, they are even quicker to at the same time offer that they are just regular people with no powers. Why speak for someone, and at the same time claim no relation?

Specific questions while effective in trouble shooting, really just hinder this "airing" of grievances.

I usually found it less than helpful when Alden would enter threads with the polite stick, and you with the suggestion stick.

If someone is crying foul on their tickets being sent in - and demanding a duly responded answer on it, I don't think it helps the situation when that person is asked to "rephrase" their post to increase their chances for a response, nor is it helpful to ask them for suggestions on how to improve the response time and appropriateness of the response. And even less so when the post isn't coming from the entity to whom the ticket was sent to.

Now - I would have no problem if this is what the description of a CL is. To keep forums clean from "abrasive" posts, and to encourage suggestions, but it is a role that I do not believe can coincide with claiming no power in enabling change and simultaneously posting their "opinions" on subjects.

I know you preface your statements that you are speaking as a "player" only Celtic, but the rule for Marines not wearing their uniforms in public, their mere image or status of one's role will alter perception of ones words can be applied here. It is not fair to shoot down critics, derail with asking for fluff or suggestions in one breath when at the same time claiming an inability to enact change and having no inside knowledge all while promoting the image of encouraging suggestions while the real constructive and flame free threads die.

[lordalden]

I have not asked for every thread to contain a staff response - my first post in this thread explains it.

There have been plenty of great and peaceful threads that go unanswered here. It has been claimed that they go unanswered but not unread.

It is extremely frustrating to begin the cyclical cycle of where OS begins to improve, only to fall short of the mark, and decline even further. Only to have Outspark come back later and use an excuse. I posted a parody of how the discussion occurs in threads between staff and posters and got a mouthful from someone, so I don't even know if I can reiterate myself.

To be honest - satisfying the consumer should be a priority of Outspark.

And if it wasn't so painful, I would find it humorous - that you ask for suggestions from the public, when the forum is literally littered with input. And the driving force behind all these people are that they feel unheard. And you are here asking how Outspark can make these individuals be heard.

Having your feed back on this specific topic is cathartic at best now. The role of a CL has never been adequately explained. While CL's are quick to offer reasons why things happen to counter critics, they are even quicker to at the same time offer that they are just regular people with no powers. Why speak for someone, and at the same time claim no relation?

Specific questions while effective in trouble shooting, really just hinder this "airing" of grievances.

I usually found it less than helpful when Alden would enter threads with the polite stick, and you with the suggestion stick.

If someone is crying foul on their tickets being sent in - and demanding a duly responded answer on it, I don't think it helps the situation when that person is asked to "rephrase" their post to increase their chances for a response, nor is it helpful to ask them for suggestions on how to improve the response time and appropriateness of the response. And even less so when the post isn't coming from the entity to whom the ticket was sent to.

Now - I would have no problem if this is what the description of a CL is. To keep forums clean from "abrasive" posts, and to encourage suggestions, but it is a role that I do not believe can coincide with claiming no power in enabling change and simultaneously posting their "opinions" on subjects.

I know you preface your statements that you are speaking as a "player" only Celtic, but the rule for Marines not wearing their uniforms in public, their mere image or status of one's role will alter perception of ones words can be applied here. It is not fair to shoot down critics, derail with asking for fluff or suggestions in one breath when at the same time claiming an inability to enact change and having no inside knowledge all while promoting the image of encouraging suggestions while the real constructive and flame free threads die.

We are not completely out of contact with Outspark, we have had, and continue to have some correlation with members of the Staff. I don't think at any given time it would be accurate to say otherwise, we're the handpicked few so to speak, so it wouldn't make sense that we have the inability to communicate with them, although I can see where that may be percieved.

We don't simply 'shoot down' critics, or, as I've said in the past: A lot of threads that stayed up would be out of here. We have an inability to enact change because we're not OnsOnSoft, and nor is Outspark. Assuming either we CL's or Outspark can 100% make all the changes the community wants is a very mistaken stance to take. We try hard simply to make it so you guys can be heard when you are concerned.

True, some great constructive threads die out, but it's typically not a matter of us our Outspark making it that way. Users will simply see less reason to discuss the topics of that particular thread. I myself dislike to let any feedback or suggestion based thread or topic die out because I feel it's important to Outspark, and the Community. Neither Outspark, nor the Community, have expressed that my stance on that is incorrect, and so I simply act on it.

There's more to answer here, and I'm sure I'll have another reply to make later, but as it stands, I'm a bit pressed for time, but I'll be watching.

[Celtic_Princess]

I ask for suggestions on how the current set up for bug reporting can be improved so that its becomes clearer for everyone involved where those bugs stand in terms of if they've been looked at, if others are experiencing it, and so that there can be one place where staff can respond and say 'hey, this is being checked into...should have a clearer response soon'. Basically, so that it can enable more efficient communication between staff and user.

Earlier, someone suggested creating a thread to update the status of specific bugs. I think thats a good idea but I'd like to hear what others think. I ask for suggestions because I represent a community not an individual. I'm sorry that you feel that its unhelpful.

As for what a CL does, in addition to basic moderation of the forums (removing advertising threads, keeping things tidy, helping out where we can, keeping threads polite...yes...polite when they start to get out of hand), we direct users to the appropriate staff members or channels of communication (like tickets), and we act as 'go betweens' for the community and the staff. I often include links to specific threads that staff can review for more information on the subject when I speak to someone.

In terms of actual power, we don't have much. We don't have influence over who stays or goes. We don't have the ability to issue infractions. We say that we are players because, well...we are. I've been playing this game for a long time now and I feel a lot of the same frustrations that you all do.

Also, when I preface a post with "the following is my opinion as a player" it means that I don't want users to take it as official word from Outspark. I could log onto an alternate account and voice my opinion, but it seems unnecessary.

I don't claim an inablity to enact change. Merely making the suggestion to staff is an action that could create change is it not? However, it is not a guaranteed change...because as Alden mentioned above me we are not part of the party that makes the final decisions. I'm truly sorry that you feel my posts are 'fluff', but I would prefer to hear about whats bothering people, what the easiest ways to enable faster and more efficient communication are, and what they would like to see done. After all, its important for the customer to be happy, right?

[WolfAngel9414]

I'd like to see something flashing in game "For an update on the current in game issues, visit -insert specific forum category here-" 'Cause most ppl blew a fuse over the 45 purples, when all they had to do was look at forums and say "Oh hey, they're gna nerf them o:"

[AParadiseLost]

@celtic and Alden - Ill come back to what you guys said - in a KKP.

But Celtic - if I wrote that I think all your posts are unhelpful or fluff - I didn't intend it. I was talking about specific threads where I feel like its just voicing an opinion to an ear. And the fluff wasnt directed at you.

The fluff is a waste of time imo. Its contrasted to what I feel the forums have trained the posters for. "Nice" threads, the ones without "flames" largely go unresponded to. So why would I put in the effort to be "nice" when its the "flame" threads that get attention. And sometimes, negative attention is better than no attention.


bbl

PS - contrast the posts by Alden and Celtic. Two very different responses on what relationship is shared by the CL and the staff. Confusing to anyone else?

[Dragonfly77]

*checks back on thread*

o.o

Walls...

of...

text...

x.x

>.< (squints and reads)

[Celtic_Princess]

PS - contrast the posts by Alden and Celtic. Two very different responses on what relationship is shared by the CL and the staff. Confusing to anyone else?

Take your time ^^ I'll be going out tonight so this may be my last post on here until the morning. However, if you read our posts we both mention that we have a fairly steady contact with staff members. We do report to them, we do voice concerns, and we do pass on the things that you say.

I'm not entirely sure where we've differed on what we said, I went into more detail about what being a CL actually involves...but then again its been a long day and I may have missed something. Feel free to PM me if you care to elaborate it further to me :) I have my slow days (those are the days without coffee).

I do agree there should be more communication and I feel, personally, that lately there have been better attempts at doing so. Its not perfect yet, but continued feedback and continued efforts will eventually get it there.

Its my own personal belief that customer feedback is one of the most essential ingredients in a successful business. Why? Because it allows the business to get a better view of what its target market wants. As such, I encourage feedback, criticisms, comments, suggestions, etc.

So far the biggest issues that I have seen have been:

1. Communication between staff and players
2. Changes in SC prices without warning (although Lenore is correct in a previous thread that while the extenders went up things like costumes went down)
3. Glitches/Bugs/Issues as a result of patching

Are there any other major issues that I am missing here?

[Takimi]

Maybe have a GM specific to bugs? You send in a PM with your issue, screenie and any required information, they add it to a closed stickied thread so all can see what's known.

The earlier idea of having status updates on a closed thread would work with this idea- That way the player can get a personal response from the GM back that, yes, this has been acknowledged and link them to the thread to prove that it's been added and/or updated.

Ionno, this is just something I came up with on the spot. Maybe not even a GM, initiate a CL or CLBug_*insertrandomname* who would be willing to do that.

[Celtic_Princess]

Maybe have a GM specific to bugs? You send in a PM with your issue, screenie and any required information, they add it to a closed stickied thread so all can see what's known.

The earlier idea of having status updates on a closed thread would work with this idea- That way the player can get a personal response from the GM back that, yes, this has been acknowledged and link them to the thread to prove that it's been added and/or updated.

Ionno, this is just something I came up with on the spot. Maybe not even a GM, initiate a CL or CLBug_*insertrandomname* who would be willing to do that.



I wouldn't suggest having a CL do it as we aren't in San Fransisco with the company. We would still have to discuss it with a staff member in order to get the updates for the threads. However, its still a good idea.

Personally, I like CLBug_Squasher...btw.

So for bug reporting what I'm seeing is that it may be easier to have a staff member specifically assigned to addressing bugs/responding to users and to have a standard format for what to report. Anyone else have suggestions to add?

[Bueawa]

Celtics, I wanna see you in-game!

Yeah, and tell OS GM's to increase the success rate of enchancing... I've spent 3 stacks of T3's to get an item to +6.... Not fair, I could do that in one stack o.O

[Stacey]

I was literally typing a response when that one was deleted....

Anyway, OS (or OOS, whatever) needs to test these patches before they implement them, so as not to cause bugs by fixing bugs. I'm with the one guy that said a patch every week is too much.

OS should get the current bugs fixed without adding content, items, etc. and then go back to doing it every other week (still maintenance for other stuff, just not a patch every week). Perhaps that will give them time to properly test things.

I like this idea. Maybe we'll have fewer bugs this way. I agree that patches should be tested before they are implemented. So why not get a test server? Do they even have one? Would it be too much to ask for one?

On a positive note, I am pleased with the recent attempts at player communication. There is still much room for improvement, but you have to start somewhere.

Me, too. I am very pleased with the way CM_Oracle once replied to my pm about why some of us feel the way we do about OS. I honestly expected another automated reply or a reply that would shoot me down. But, no. Although she was limited to what she could tell me, her reply was very detailed and reassuring. It really showed that Oracle cared. So, good job CM-Oracle! :)






Hmm I really like the fact that the GMs are posting patch notes and addressing the player concerns via forums. Even their short time IG is nice every now and then.

Basically, its not so much as quantity/length of their forum posts that I'm looking for when it comes to communication. What I'm looking for is the feeling that their presence is felt. I don't need a long detailed discription of every little thing they are doing to the game to try to fix/improve/add things (though it maybe very nice to have, but not neccesary). In fact, I bet many people wouldn't know the inner workings of the game, so best to let the GMs do their thing.

Some people prefer detailed posts rather than short ones. Yes, it's nice to know that they can post here. But it might not be satisfying to have a short vague answers. Some of us pay for this game and we want to know what's being done so we know if this game is worth spending. I would want to know what they are fixing, rather than what's coming up with the Cash Shop.

Sometimes, short and vague answers are all they can give us, perhaps due to privacy and such. But that's fine, too. I guess it depends. I personally don't mind these short answers, but it should be a good one with some thought. :)

GM Nekopan is doing a wonderful job...why? B/c she pops into the forums and leave small comments. It doesn't matter if she can't fix something right away...what matters is that her presence signals the effort of the collective staff to fix what was wrong and to address a concern. I want to stress that GMs aren't all uber professional computer programers that can write hundreds of pages of game code to fix a problem.

Yep. Neko pawns, lol. Much pleased with her posts. :)




Replies in red and bold :D.

[GM_Straega]

Yes, I'd love to have a bug guy around!

Unfortunately on our end here, we don't always get to learn what's actually being worked on until a bit later, sometimes even last minute.

I'd really like to tell all of you the current status on very specific issues, but sometimes we don't always get that info either.

In case you haven't noticed yet, what I'm starting to do is to make sure that I include all confirmed issues that are being worked on at the end of the patch notes for each week.

I know it may not be extraordinarily elaborate, but as a few people have stated, it's a start, and we're working on better communicating things to our community as well.

[Stacey]

Aw, GM_Straega. We know you're trying. ^^

But wait a minute, if you can't always get the info on issues, then how are you/OS supposed to fix them? O.o Not a technical person, so I'm just curious. :)

[GM_Straega]

Aw, GM_Straega. We know you're trying. ^^

But wait a minute, if you can't always get the info on issues, then how are you/OS supposed to fix them? O.o Not a technical person, so I'm just curious. :)

The developer has to work on them.

[Stacey]

The developer has to work on them.

So when you finally get that info, that's when you start fixing things? Do you just wait for them to give you that info, or do you have to pressure them to get these things done? Are the developers speedy or slow in working on these thngs?

P.S. I appreciate your speedy reply.:)

[CM_Oracle]

You guys are amazing.

1) Thank you for elaborating on your replies, telling us what you'd like to see improved upon, and keeping your replies civil. We appreciate it and it makes it soooo much easier to bring topics that are well thought out and well worded to the team.

2) For keeping this on topic.

You guys are an amazing community!

[Dragonfly77]

^^ this community is win <3

[Odrioll]

I do agree there should be more communication and I feel, personally, that lately there have been better attempts at doing so. Its not perfect yet, but continued feedback and continued efforts will eventually get it there.

Its my own personal belief that customer feedback is one of the most essential ingredients in a successful business. Why? Because it allows the business to get a better view of what its target market wants. As such, I encourage feedback, criticisms, comments, suggestions, etc.

So far the biggest issues that I have seen have been:

1. Communication between staff and players
2. Changes in SC prices without warning (although Lenore is correct in a previous thread that while the extenders went up things like costumes went down)
3. Glitches/Bugs/Issues as a result of patching

Are there any other major issues that I am missing here?

Totally agree withe the first two paragraphs. It is clear that your player spirit is still around ^_^

1/ Yet, the feedback, should be going further than it is at the moment. I mean, we are giving you feedback on a LOT of IG things, bugs, lags, gameplay. Sometimes, it's taken into account by you, CLs, or GMs wandering around on forums. Then you're trying to look into this and try to fix it in an undetermined amount of time, sometimes regardless the importance of the problem. Well at least u did take it into consideration. What we do not see as players/customers is that, is that what are the staff priority in those fixes, and we hardly ever hear of how quickly this will be treated, and if it's even treated... So we give feeback, but after that it is rare that we have YOUR feedback before it's actually fixed.

2/ It is clear that this is the biggest mess atm, mixed with game glitches. Some prices have dropped (even though some have been "normalized" like swimsuits to jump from 1.7k sc to 3.5k to get to 3.1k now), concerning suits. But look at the enhancement and the extenders.

Just a little math for 1 month playing :
*suit, hat, 1 t4 enhancement, mount, extender. (which is average 80+ players)
* 3195 + 1745 + (3*4345+3*3465) + 4295 + 7245 = 39910 SC, on 9th of July.
* 3595 + 1745 + (3*3995+3*2995) + 4295 + 5245 = 35850 SC, on 1st of July.

I dont dare to include gold nines.
So 4.1k SC increase. Please don't tell me this is nothing. 35k sc is already SO huge for a game...
I do think you're about to lose a lot of players (not only me xD) according to what i read, what i hear since yesterday/last week.

3/ It is open beta game, so it can be understood that bugs happen. Even big ones. This is not the problem to me. You need to compensate the loss of money due to those game problems. This is like a defective product you buy in wallmart, you can get it fixed without paying any fee, or you get the money back for this broken product. Here we have a defective product and the money injected in it is running out of our wallet.


My last word (of already too long post) will go to the censorship on the forums. I judge the threads about the point 2/ and 3/ written yesterday were relevant for OS, and people were acting quite civilly when you look at how OS care about us recently ^^. Please don't make us believe you want to hear on forums only what you want to hear from us :)


Have fun :D

[Celtic_Princess]

The post wasn't too long by any means :) I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you feel a thread was closed unreasonably please, please message a CL to discuss it. I have heard from a couple of players regarding a thread that was closed yesterday. I am always willing to discuss the matter.

I see a lot of threads that seem concerned that there is a form of censorship on what you can and cannot say. As someone who does the closing of threads, I disagree. If I close a thread it either has to violate the forum rules (like advertising another game) or it has to cross some major lines in terms of flaming. We use our best judgement as people and as fellow community members, what we may think crosses a line or is the appropriate action may not be seen the same way by other users. In this situation we encourage you to message another CL, a CM, or a CSR and we'd be happy to review the thread and discuss the matter with you. We're people and we make mistakes, but we're responsible for our actions.

Another point I want to address on that issue is that there are a few posters who choose to flame staff assuming that its not the same thing as flaming a community member. It is, and it will get a thread closed. So civil responses are encouraged.

As to your other points, like Nekopon said they don't always have feedback to give you before its fixed. However, I can definitely understand as a player wanting what information can be given. I noticed that Nekopon created a thread on bugs and issues that have arised since the last patch. I have not had the opportunity to read through it yet though.

The other issues are ones that I would have to discuss with a staff member in order to really give you a decent answer on what can be done about it. However, I would be more than willing to submit those concerns to staff for them to review and possibly change.

A final note on censorship- Nothing changes if nothing is ever said. I fully encourage, as do the Outspark staff and other CLs, users to give their opinions and feelings about changes made to the game. If you see a thread that doesn't seem to be getting the attention it deserves, please PM me or any other CL the link.

[Odrioll]

Thanks for the response about yesterday's censorship ^^.

But you know about ticket to CL/CSR ? Here is the story that happened to me twice so that i don't send any more tickets except for technical issues.

I sent a ticket to a CL(or CSR) (won't quote, this is not my goal), and then 2 days after, I received my answer : globally saying "We are glad that you're giving us a feedback, but these are the kinds of discussions that should be discussed on the forums with the community". The actual reason why I sent a ticket was because threads were opened and discussed, and nothing had moved from OS. So I and OS and the whole community were just turning around the problem.

This is not a problem to be "blow away" if we can say so. But the fact is that didnt make things change. In the end, a part of the problem was solved, but this could have been way quicker :).
For a matter of censorship as it happened yesterday, I believe I'm not the one who should discuss the closing of the threads in this case, as I wasn't a great actor in these, but I just wanted to let you know that this was quite harsh and repressive, but this is my personnal opinion ^^.

And for the points I highlighted (CS and bugs), I don't have the right to say this is emergency matter for you, but you should look at the community mood more often xD. I know we may be very picky, but polls would still be the best way to test our wills.

~~<3~~

[Celtic_Princess]

Thanks for the response about yesterday's censorship ^^.

But you know about ticket to CL/CSR ? Here is the story that happened to me twice so that i don't send any more tickets except for technical issues.

I sent a ticket to a CL(or CSR) (won't quote, this is not my goal), and then 2 days after, I received my answer : globally saying "We are glad that you're giving us a feedback, but these are the kinds of discussions that should be discussed on the forums with the community". The actual reason why I sent a ticket was because threads were opened and discussed, and nothing had moved from OS. So I and OS and the whole community were just turning around the problem.

This is not a problem to be "blow away" if we can say so. But the fact is that didnt make things change. In the end, a part of the problem was solved, but this could have been way quicker :).
For a matter of censorship as it happened yesterday, I believe I'm not the one who should discuss the closing of the threads in this case, as I wasn't a great actor in these, but I just wanted to let you know that this was quite harsh and repressive, but this is my personnal opinion ^^.

And for the points I highlighted (CS and bugs), I don't have the right to say this is emergency matter for you, but you should look at the community mood more often xD. I know we may be very picky, but polls would still be the best way to test our wills.

~~<3~~

Typically they will ask you to discuss certain bugs/glitches on the forums so that information can be gathered that makes it easier to find the source of the problem. I'm sorry that you felt like your message was blown off, and I assure you that if you discuss something with me in PM thats not going to happen. I will look at it, and I will make sure it gets seen. I'm not sure if you included links to the threads that were created on the subject, but I generally send them when I want a staff member to look at something. It makes it easier to locate.

I also pay attention to the mood of the community, it goes through its ups and downs and there are several trends that tend to occur. What kind of polls would you be interested in seeing? Satisfaction polls after patches for new features? Suggestion polls for the CS like sales or new bundles? All of the above?

[cercia]

Yes, I'd love to have a bug guy around!

Unfortunately on our end here, we don't always get to learn what's actually being worked on until a bit later, sometimes even last minute.

I'd really like to tell all of you the current status on very specific issues, but sometimes we don't always get that info either.

In case you haven't noticed yet, what I'm starting to do is to make sure that I include all confirmed issues that are being worked on at the end of the patch notes for each week.

I know it may not be extraordinarily elaborate, but as a few people have stated, it's a start, and we're working on better communicating things to our community as well.

Aw, GM_Straega. We know you're trying. ^^

But wait a minute, if you can't always get the info on issues, then how are you/OS supposed to fix them? O.o Not a technical person, so I'm just curious. :)

The simple answer is, "they can't."

That's probably some of the reason things slip through the cracks; if OOS decides "Hey, we're going to work on the summon abilities," and doesn't tell OS, OS isn't likely to run a test on that. If that results in a broken summon ability, we, as players who hammer constantly at the game, are more likely to find it. Then, as unofficial procedure goes, we yell as OS, and they go, "Huh, what? Oh, darn," and talk to OOS about getting it fixed. Or something. XD

But really, imagine having to check over 420 levels of skills (105 levels per class * 4 classes), plus academy/guild features, plus marriage features, plus 105 levels of quests (yes, I know a good chunk of levels don't actually have quests) each patch. That's a lot of work, and as any computer person can tell you, what works on one box might not work on another (for example, IE and Firefox and Chrome don't always display pages the same way - its the same sort of thing), and with that many things to adjust, things slip through the cracks.


A while ago, I think in the archer subforum, I posted a comment about seeing King Mushrooms die. Woo, big deal, right? Except no one was attacking them. Really, no one was doing anything (for that matter, I was the only player I could even see). The Mushrooms stood around, then aggro on something, then died. Oh, hey, look, in a few patches, a Ranger's Hide skill is released. To me, that experience suggests that someone was seeing if the Hide skill was canceled on an attack (this is pre-invisibility suit, too), and determining that it wasn't.

Those things are why I am hoping for some sort of semi-detailed bug/status report. I like what Straega has done with the patch notes, and do read them, but in the cases of things like the 4th of July Teva disaster, I would appreciate a faster than weekly update. If I remember right, Celtic and someone else made a page that had a list of bugs. Don't know what happened to it, or if it is even still around. I'd love it if we could get something like that from the staff.

[Celtic_Princess]

It was a website actually, its been inactive for a while because I don't have time to keep it up between the forums and the responsibilities of my real life.

[GM_Nekopon]

I agree with many of the things that are send on this thread and I'm glad it got made. It was a lot to read as to first thing in the morning but I'm loving all the input!

There are several things I'd like to have a response on.

Everyone loves new content but fixing the old is just as important. There's a lot of maintenance that needs to be done and we're not going to overlook them. I believe weekly patches are fine as long as they're not full of glitched as bugs and that they actually "patch" things, not always just adding new stuff.

Moreso, there are threads all over the forums about these problems. Many people that believe we've not reading or not listening to. Some even claim that their threads have been closed. I haven't done so before but if that's the case- it's best to talk to a CL to find the reason to why I was closed in the first place. There is usually a good reason behind it.

When there's content that's bugged, we make sure to report it. When it gets back to us and how is another story. The reason why I've made that thread for last week's patch was to gather information just for that maintenance. But now, I feel I need to make a thread just to list ALL the problems that we know about and for people to report on. By no means it should be a CSR thread for reporting hacking, log-in, scam, etc. issues but for in-game content. However, I believe it'd rather be difficult to keep flames out of it.

As for my part, I've personally fallen in love with the forums and would love to inform you all with the information I can and tell you when I can't. I'll try my best not to leave important or "hop topics" threads hanging with no response. Please understand though that you may have times you won't get the answer you want to receive because of privacy issues but it's part of our job. Oh, and there are thousands of you and probably less than 30 of us- so a little patience is appreciated.

Cercia mentioned to have a list for the steps we're taking for each bug. I won't always have this information because that's not my part of the job, programming and debugging that is, but if I get any info on that next time, I'll make sure to post it.

In-game announcements were also made by me personally about the changes in that were going to be made on the next patch (Which was for the one we just did on Tuesday night) but I realized a lot of people missed it. Perhaps I'll try announcing them immediately after I get the info and also when it's peak hours over the [notice] next time. Hopefully, it'll be better this way and also avoid repeating threads.



Edit: I also don't deal with spark cash at all. I won't be able to answer those questions. What I can do is tell you IF there would be future updates AND I think Cool Catch of the Day is pretty useful about now if you're want to save money.

[kouseketra]

(Please remember as I wrote this, most likely many, many posts were made, and I haven't caught up yet as of the time of posting.)

Alrighty, this is going to be an impressively tedious wall of text, if you have the patience, please bear with me.

On July 08th, I created a thread that is now titled ‘Some advice for OS’, and that is now closed. The reason for it’s closure was due to rude, churlish behaviour by some posters, I‘m assuming, as there was no official reason for the closure given as a final post. With that in mind, I want to thank Dragonfly for creating this new thread, which I feel personally is a much needed thing in these forums. My opinion is that one thread on the topic will suffice as long as it’s getting the positive attention and responses that are required, and none of the negativity and crudeness that gets other topics locked down.

So far it’s going well, I applaud our Fiestan community for this effort. After all, how can our game experience improve for the best, unless we’re earnestly attempting to communicate the changes we’d like to see, the problems we’d like addressed, and more?

The original reason I felt moved to create my thread was due to complaints I’d overheard from my friends and peers regarding increases in prices on certain fairly essential items in the cash shop. While things like crit suits were reduced, the price hike in other items didn’t balance out with the reductions to our minds, in fact, to many, it went completely unnoticed. Combined with the frustrations from glitches, server lag, and frustration with slower than expected responses to tickets, it was the final straw for several friends, not just myself, and that bothered me.

Perhaps it would be a good move on the part of OS staff if they announced these kinds of price changes, instead of only flooding us with messages in game about the ‘Cool Catch of the Day’ and ‘20% off July 4th items’. Even if it’s just a post on the Fiesta home page, some forewarning would be lovely, instead of no warning. It can leave a customer with a bad taste in their mouth to see these surprises in the cash shop when they’re accustomed to a certain price.

I can completely understand OS is suffering due to the economy - we all are. However, I don’t feel that it justifies this move. Could we have some explanation as to what was behind the decision? As far as business practice goes, in the entertainment industry, when times are tough, you need to appeal to the consumer with lower prices, not higher, to coax the dollars from their wallets. Unfortunately, I don’t think simply discounting Remi’s to be equivalent to the cost of playing Jame’s Forge for a small amount of time, or having these ‘Cool Catch of the Day’ promotions, really makes up for it.

Yes, Remi’s, James’ Forge, Cool Catch of the Day, are all good promotions, they’re well thought out, and can be fun, but I think if you’re looking to draw in more first time SC users, maybe even convince die hard Scless players to convert to making use of the cash shop, maybe try something like a freebie, like say, ‘find a hidden link on one of the cash shop pages to receive a free item’. It could be a small item, maybe a def charm or the like, but searching for a hidden link, for example, to win the prize forces participants to look at the cash shop pages even if normally they would not, and they might see an item within those pages that they want to buy. This applies to regular SC users as well, they might see something they overlooked before and buy it.

The reason this kind of idea would work for trickle down sales (which do add up), is that, unlike redeeming a promotional code for a prize, users will be examining the Cash Shop itself, and exposing them to it’s contents is a good step towards them desiring items enough to buy SC, and then the items they want.

After all, the goal should be to appeal to as many consumers as possible, with prices that are easily afforded by who you state as your target demographic, and the demographic that is prevalent in the community, that is, students, and young people, most of whom have limited resources.

Anyway, yes, I completely comprehend that OS is a business and it’s first priority is staying afloat. However, I believe there are better methods. It’s truly unfortunate but these recent pricing changes are going to lose customers. Between the fact that there was no information regarding it prior to it happening, and the fact that many felt they were either paying enough for their in game items, or too much, in frustration many are saying ‘enough’.

It would be happier circumstances to see OS upgrading servers every couple of months, then to see players leaving, making way for new ones. Why? Because that isn’t growth of a business…that’s a business stagnating, and with the lovely games like Fiesta that OS hosts, that‘s a shame, and it really shouldn’t be.

Before I continue, I’d like to express that I’m in no way attempting to be rude or insulting in my post, I merely wish to bring up my personal concerns and those I see of my friends. I trust that it’ll be read with solemnity and respect, as I am offering respect along with my concerns and advice. I’m avoiding calling it criticism, as that seems a harsh word for the points I am trying to impart.

I will state that I am for the most part satisfied with the responses to tickets I’ve sent in the past for issues that arose in game. The CSR’s were always courteous and obliging, however I did notice that for every ticket I submitted, it was always one of the same two CSR’s responding, proof that OS is far too understaffed to take on the tasks of a community this size in a manner that pleases nearly everyone (as it‘s impossible to please all).

One thing I would like to see, I wonder if it is even possible, that in the event an individual is reported for breaking the ToS, if a follow up could be sent to the submitter of the ticket concerning it, outlining the actions taken. I’m sure it would give the ticket senders peace of mind to know what was done to handle their grievances.

Also, at the risk of sounding nosey, I’d appreciate knowing who closed my thread and exactly why, as no explanation was given. I’ve been approached about it by someone concerned that this is an example of censorship on the forums. I truly hope that isn’t so, as the vast majority of those posts were valid and of import to the original topic, which itself needed addressing. All I can say about that at this point is I’m glad that Dragonfly’s thread exists to revive the topic, and that I’m curious about my thread’s closure.

Moving on, I’d like to stress the fact that I feel more emphasis should be placed on pressuring OnsOnSoft to fix as many bugs as can possibly be fixed, or at least make the emphasis that is on it more visible. I’m happy about GM Nekopon’s thread listing current bugs, it’s good step. If a thread, or a post within a thread, once in a while could state ’we heard from the game devs that such a bug should be fixed by such a date’ that would be exquisite.

Yes, it’s been made clear that there will always be bugs, and yes, that’s the case, because technology is technology, technology fails, because it was created by human hands, that also fail, because they’re human. But, I don’t think we’re asking for a flawless game, just a more stable one. Things like characters getting stuck in ToS when relogging or being summoned shouldn’t happen, especially not when a ticket must be submitted about it, and it takes days to fix, days that waste running times on SC items the person was using, not to mention that it takes the time of the person who must fix the error for the player. If this kind of bug wasn’t in existence, over the long haul, it would save so much of everyone’s time and effort. A stitch in time saves nine…a bug fix now saves GM’s, CSR’s and players from pulling at their hair later.

As I said before in another post, perhaps a patch each week is too much, too fast. It seems a bit like rushing, I mean, sure it would take longer to do all the testing necessary to ensure the patch was as faultless as possible, but, wouldn’t it be worth it? The game devs should be examine the patches on test servers to catch the bugs that can be easily fixed. I’d seriously abhor to think OnsOnSoft is inserting red herrings into their product, but sometimes I have cause to wonder.

Regardless, we all love the game, otherwise we wouldn’t be playing it. We all want to see it succeed not just now, but long term. Obviously, then, the game’s quality must be maintained on a greater level then cash shop items alone, ie, when fixing the bug with inventory items, where was the fix for the inaccuracies on the X, Y, Z plane that continue to go unfixed, resulting in flowers and other articles of foliage, rocks, and objects appearing to float midair? This is a long standing glitch that must throw off those very new to the game, who haven’t grown accustomed to it. The fact that long term players are accustomed to it, in itself, is a little bemusing.

With regard to server lag, is there any chance of OS upgrading and/or expanding their servers to accommodate the vast number of players that now utilize them? It seems a bit unfortunate if it’s expected that the opening of the new server would completely amend the problems through server migration…though migration may help if players are able to transfer their chosen characters to any server, instead of having to leave behind perhaps high level characters they’ve invested months of time into to start anew in another server. It’s clear the lag isn’t wholly to do with the number of people playing, but also the servers themselves are factors. For this reason OS can control the lag, at least partly.

I’m ending for now, if you’ve read this far, thank you for your patience and perseverance with my wall of text.

[Odrioll]

As I said before in another post, perhaps a patch each week is too much, too fast. It seems a bit like rushing, I mean, sure it would take longer to do all the testing necessary to ensure the patch was as faultless as possible, but, wouldn’t it be worth it? The game devs should be examine the patches on test servers to catch the bugs that can be easily fixed. I’d seriously abhor to think OnsOnSoft is inserting red herrings into their product, but sometimes I have cause to wonder.

[...]

I’m ending for now, if you’ve read this far, thank you for your patience and perseverance with my wall of text.

For once, I'll keep myself from criticizing how OS is administrating the forums and cash shop to point at this quotation, which is SO TRUE.
I mean, it is normal that OS wish they improved the game so fast that players are never bored. Though, it is necessary for us to have a game that is satisfying to us. For that, if OS doesnt feel ready to release a new feature, it should not be released. It doesn't matter if you decide to have 3 maintenance in a week or, none in 2 weeks.
This is just a problem of having a game that works fine ;-] If there are a lot of bugs and you can fix some of them, just take one hour of maintenance as soon as possible to implement the patch ! I think this will benefit more to the community than leaving people a whole week with a poor gaming experience due to bad lags/dc/glitches...

A schedule is ok as long as something unforeseen doesn't happen...

*Pokes Kouseketra* I've read your post from a to z :o *bleeding eyes*

[Celtic_Princess]

For once, I'll keep myself from criticizing how OS is administrating the forums and cash shop to point at this quotation, which is SO TRUE.
I mean, it is normal that OS wish they improved the game so fast that players are never bored. Though, it is necessary for us to have a game that is satisfying to us. For that, if OS doesnt feel ready to release a new feature, it should not be released. It doesn't matter if you decide to have 3 maintenance in a week or, none in 2 weeks.
This is just a problem of having a game that works fine ;-] If there are a lot of bugs and you can fix some of them, just take one hour of maintenance as soon as possible to implement the patch ! I think this will benefit more to the community than leaving people a whole week with a poor gaming experience due to bad lags/dc/glitches...

A schedule is ok as long as something unforeseen doesn't happen...

*Pokes Kouseketra* I've read your post from a to z :o *bleeding eyes*

The issue of having bugs/glitches that stick around is why I've been asking for suggestions on how we can make bug reporting simpler, faster, and more efficient. I've seen a few good ideas on it, like a standaradized form for reporting. What else can we do to make it easy for you not only to report bugs, but for Outspark to gather information on them?

[GM_Nekopon]

My sticky from the early July patch reporting how now turned into a bug/glitch report thread. If you like, please post them there as me and Straega will both be monitoring that and try to keep you guys posted on what known issues are collected there.

[kouseketra]

For once, I'll keep myself from criticizing how OS is administrating the forums and cash shop to point at this quotation, which is SO TRUE.
I mean, it is normal that OS wish they improved the game so fast that players are never bored. Though, it is necessary for us to have a game that is satisfying to us. For that, if OS doesnt feel ready to release a new feature, it should not be released. It doesn't matter if you decide to have 3 maintenance in a week or, none in 2 weeks.
This is just a problem of having a game that works fine ;-] If there are a lot of bugs and you can fix some of them, just take one hour of maintenance as soon as possible to implement the patch ! I think this will benefit more to the community than leaving people a whole week with a poor gaming experience due to bad lags/dc/glitches...

A schedule is ok as long as something unforeseen doesn't happen...

*Pokes Kouseketra* I've read your post from a to z :o *bleeding eyes*

Haha, thanks for reading it all, and thanks for adding your thoughts on the issue. I love seeing multiple people's opinions on the subject as there are so many of them to be heard.

[Odrioll]

You're welcome xD
This is major problems we have been discussing on forums for some days, so the more OS and the community has points of views, the more efficient this will be treated ^^

I got the glitch thread Nekopon :) But I wasnt stating about how to report you the bugs but how to correct them :3

<3~~

[GM_Nekopon]

You mean how we fix glitches?

[kouseketra]

I'd love to know OOS's process for bug fixes. o.o Or, the average turn-around between the time OS reports to OOS, and a fix is delivered. I always like to imagine Silkypico phones them up and is really brash with them. "Fix this by our next maintenance and stop being fail!" D:< (I realize he most likely doesn't say that, but, to me it's an amusing mental image. >.> )

[Sepheera]

Whether it's fellow players or OS staff members, I'd just like to remind everyone that the majority of comments and criticisms are made with the best of intentions. (Although admittedly some posters need a lesson in grammar and tact to be taken seriously.)

Most of us do care a great deal about this game. We've invested time (and for many of us money) into the game itself and the relationships that we've formed here. We'd like to see things prosper; but to everyone's benefit. Even though this is a business, we want to believe that this game is as much about the community of players as it is about OS/OSS's profit margin. Because after all, without the support of the players the business will ultimately fail.

That is precisely the reason for threads such as these. While there are a few people who do little more than complain constantly and try to create descent, most are just trying to look out for the future of the game that we love. Our suggestions/comments/criticisms are made in an effort to try and ecourage changes that make continuing with this game a rational and economically responsible choice. We don't want to just walk away and abandon it in favor of starting over somewhere else unless/until we feel like it's our only choice.

Effort needs to be made by all to achieve the best success. While players do need to be patient for fixes for bugs and glitches, OS needs to pressure OSS to deliver these fixes in a timely fashion for us. And I would think OS would want to know how people feel about sc pricing. While this is advertised as F2P (and can theoretically be played that way, if not with the greatest enjoyment), their primary objective is the sale of sc. Without it there is no way to fund the game. So if their decisions become an obstacle in their own goals aren't we ultimately doing them a service by letting them know?

So before those that think 'It's just a bunch of complainers' post their criticisms/condemnations of said individuals in an effort to silence them, take a minute to try and understand what it is that people are doing and why. I am frequently an OS supporter/defender. But I will not do so to the point of being a detrement to anyone.

[GM_Nekopon]

I am constantly reminded of this and I remind this to others.
But I am but one person.

As for what I've been doing,
I hope it's been helping you change your image of Outspark.

On a more genuine side of me, I want everyone to benefit equally from this game.
I believe people that are happy with the game would naturally have a better time purchasing SC rather than cringing every time they push that "buy" button.
Equal trade, Happiness for SC?

This is just my personal view.

[Sepheera]

But I am but one person.

As for what I've been doing,
I hope it's been helping you change your image of Outspark.

On a more genuine side of me, I want everyone to benefit equally from this game.
I believe people that are happy with the game would naturally have a better time purchasing SC rather than cringing every time they push that "buy" button.
Equal trade, Happiness for SC?

This is just my personal view.

As a rule my image of OS has not been a bad one. Recent developments have caused me concern, but I'm not about to form a final opinion or make drastic changes until I see how things pan out.

I must say that you have been making a remarkable effort to appease the masses, which I thank you for. And I realize that you have limitations in your ability of what changes can be made. Therefore I ask no more of you than to be an intermediary and emphasize our concerns to those staff members that can make the changes, but aren't in such frequent contact with the community.

And I agree for the most part with your personal opinion. But therein lies the rub. So many people have been frustrated and unsatisfied with the state of the game in general lately. It's made the rise in the sc pricing particularly hard to accept. And given that fact it makes me wonder if a retraction in the price hike might not be necessary to earn the devotion of the players again, regardless of the status of the game glitches.

I still believe that lesser pricing with mass sales is the wiser way to go given the general economy and market base they're dealing with. But in any case, whenever raising prices is considered I feel two basic rules can keep outrage at a minimum:

1) Raise prices in much smaller increments over a period of time.

2) Do it when players are happy and engrossed in the game. When people are actively able to continue persuing their goals they're more likely to be tolerant.

[kouseketra]

Bumping the thread, and thank you Neko for taking the time to listen to us gripe and reply.