View Full Version : Confirmation Mail Not Sent Yet!!
jomarsantos73
11-03-2007, 11:27 PM
I just recently joined, it's been approximately 30 minutes and I haven't received a confirmation email.
SirVivor
11-12-2007, 08:12 PM
I have the same problem. No confirmation email. I requested it to be re-sent several times, and checked my junk mail, as well as checking my email address and re-entered it twice just in case it contained non-printing characters or anything like that. Still no confirmation email.
SirVivor
11-14-2007, 02:44 AM
No, nothing like that. I can receive mail from anyone on the Internet.
I just tried it again, and again it said it re-sent the validation email, and again I didn't receive anything.
Terranwolf
11-14-2007, 01:29 PM
This is a common problem among users registering at vBulletin forums.
I have people PMing me because they have that problem sometimes.
I think that it's a anti-spam related issue with your ISP's mailer daemon.
TheCretz
11-15-2007, 11:20 AM
I have a few suggestions that may help with receiving your validation email:
• Double-check that your account information is accurate
• Turn off any spam filters or firewalls that may be restricting the email being sent
If you are still unable to receive the validation email, you can manually have it resent by following these steps:
1. Login to your account at www.outspark.com
2. Click on “My Account” located in the upper-right corner
3. Click on the “Edit” button
4. Click “Re-send validation e-mail”
If none of these suggestions were of help to resolve this issue, I would recommend creating a new account and using a different email address.
CSR_Cretz
Lyraz
12-06-2007, 07:19 AM
Hi, I'm new and I've got the same problem.
I've already resent the validation e-mail to several e-mail-adresses, even to the second one of someone who has already got it.
I even created a new account, but it still doesn't work. Is there any possibility to get the mail by a GM or can anyone else help me?
I really want to play!!!
Apends
12-06-2007, 08:10 AM
I've tried everything you said cretz, but im still not receiving a validation mail, plz assist
Gobbo
12-06-2007, 06:49 PM
It's been more than an hour since I've registered, but still no validation email.
And I'm sure it's not one of the problems mentioned above.
muvo1337
12-08-2007, 06:09 AM
same here :(
Meisterleo
12-09-2007, 06:42 AM
well i registerd today (9 dec) and i'm still waiting for the confirmation email, it's been over 2 hours already and im getting kind of bored =D
also none of the solutions worked and im pretty sure that neither an isp nor an spam filter problem ;D
Strong316
12-09-2007, 12:54 PM
Ya i cant even get my confermation and its been 1 week and i probably cliked that resend button 500 times:confused::(
bownerz
12-11-2007, 02:37 PM
i have been on the forums for a lil while and no one that has brains has tried to help... if this many ppl are having problems including me its no us... it is the mail server either its down or it is not routing the mail right... please change this... it might even be a sonic wall from the mail server well thanks anyways hope someone can figure this out... i need help maybe you could send me a private message with the link... so that i may download the game client???? thanks anyways...
HellKnight42
12-11-2007, 03:03 PM
i have had my account for about 2 days and it still has not come:mad::mad::mad::mad:
wellrounded9
12-13-2007, 07:28 PM
this seems to be a problem with feista not us because i have no fire wall and wat not so i believe that should make it fiestas fault
ps not blaming i just want to help let u know its ur prob not ours
Lagprince
12-14-2007, 05:43 PM
Hello all my other account was Lagking.....I started a new account with msn...which is @live.ca ..and got the confirmation right away! now to the downloading it's not going good my first attempt was with download.com and it was corrupted
sheckler1996
12-17-2007, 09:52 AM
The same thing is happening to me, its been like 18 hours!!! I turned off my firewall and everything and still, no mail. Did you guys ever get it figured out?:mad::confused::eek:
Rajodr
12-17-2007, 12:57 PM
my friend is having the same problem, he was playing on his brothers account, but once i started playing he went to make his own so we could team, but didn't get the email
Strong316
12-18-2007, 06:27 AM
To me this is stupid i mean i cant belive that feista isnt helping us at all:mad::mad::mad::(
lucasmj
12-19-2007, 12:44 PM
im having the same problem....maybe the admins or anyone else could sent a message with the link or activate our account manually.....
just a suggestion
Altimadale
12-19-2007, 05:46 PM
Just wanted to say, Comcast.net email accounts aren't receiving the verification email, switched to one of my gmail accounts and it worked just fine. :)
Porrast
12-20-2007, 07:40 PM
I have the same problem.... HEY where is someone in charge who have to figure this problem out???...
Prime0316
12-25-2007, 05:26 PM
Same with me it's been a day already and ive resent it lot's of times
AratoSlayer
12-26-2007, 01:46 PM
its been 9 days since i sent it and i havent gotten the e-mail yet...
chrigugoul
12-27-2007, 04:35 PM
hi there
i had just the same issue with a *@gmx.ch mail addr. But creating a *@gmail.com account and following the steps CSR_Cretz descriped solved it immediately.
greez
Lapppy
12-29-2007, 02:50 PM
If You use a Yahoo acc for email, you probably wont get it like i did. I just tried a diff acount from a different provider
mizzyianne
12-29-2007, 03:01 PM
wow i've been waiting for like 4 hours!! then when i clicked the link that was sent it says access denied!! wth???
i really wanna play
can u pls do somthin' abt. this
kissubang
12-30-2007, 07:26 PM
I tried 3 differant e-mail accounts, even made a new one, and it didn't work. I followed the suggestion of trying out Gmail and it did result in getting my confirmation e-mail successfully. I have to say though, this is a really bad registration setup. It discourages you from wanting to play the game.
aws100
12-30-2007, 07:37 PM
i have also had the same problems..i have no fire wall and have tired to resend multiple times....mabye the server is backed up
aws100
12-31-2007, 12:27 AM
i was having problems reciving my e-mail all day soo i made a a new e-mail at gmail. (thats google mail). and it worked right when i re sent it to that email. so i am confirming that gmail will recive your conformtaion e-mail....good luck
Bonuspack
12-31-2007, 10:45 AM
So then what everyone is saying is that I will never get my confirmation email cause only those with a gmail account are getting them?
Brast0815
01-01-2008, 02:20 PM
i had the same problem when entering my normal email address at gmx.de, the validation email didnt coming even after 10 times clicking resent at my account.
And no, it does not land in the spam folder of gmx.
I solved the problem by using my web.de mail instead, the validation lands in spam folder of web.de at least.
So for all gmx email users, dont use it for the account, somehow gmx eat the return email for the validation and it lands nowhere, very strange but true.
I hope i could help some people
Sorry for my bad english, im from germany.
xecellodor
01-01-2008, 09:22 PM
I'm still waiting for my confirmation e-mail, yet i don't receive anything for more than 7 weeks now. Is there anyone out there could help me of this problem. I'm currently living in the SEA ( Southeast Asia ) area. If permitted, i would like to witness and experience the joy of playing SoS, like the grand-old days of RO...
I hope my plea would not go on deaf ears....
More Hope and Wishes,
:)
advantex
01-01-2008, 11:24 PM
I'm having trouble in varifying my account:(
Sceptile8264
01-03-2008, 03:40 PM
I've had the SAME EXACT problem. My friend has the problem too. It's been a DAY!!! :mad:
uNDerOath107
01-03-2008, 07:11 PM
What is this site using for the automated email daemon?
Reason I ask, they should run the script against wc3 standards and maybe they will find the bug.
Hapitok
01-05-2008, 10:35 AM
the problem has come to me as well,I tried 20 times and nothing has arrived yet
ktostam
01-06-2008, 05:21 AM
"if you want play you must do email on @gmail.com and register with this email:)
confimation email is sent there in 10sec:)
Sorry for my bad english im Poland
Jhanniss
01-06-2008, 06:31 AM
As Ktostam said, gmail is a great email system and its Outspark friendly.
Recently I needed some official documents sent to me by Outspark but was unable to attain them on my current emails. I was able to get a gmail account and the emails went through to it without any problems.
If you are having problems getting emails from Outspark (confirmation, etc), then I'd suggest registering with gmail.
TheCentrix
01-06-2008, 09:46 AM
As Ktostam said, gmail is a great email system and its Outspark friendly.
Recently I needed some official documents sent to me by Outspark but was unable to attain them on my current emails. I was able to get a gmail account and the emails went through to it without any problems.
If you are having problems getting emails from Outspark (confirmation, etc), then I'd suggest registering with gmail.
http://www.gmail.com
I asume this is because Hotmail automatically puts non-SMTP emails in junk/spam (as spam protection). Gmail is more advanced and knows if the e-mail really is spam or not.
dph1960
01-06-2008, 10:27 AM
have resent 11 time ! 5 new email adresses! NO RESPONCE! BUT YOUR EMAIL TELLING ME TO THE STANDARD LINE GOT THROUGH FINE1 what gives tickect #1545.
help..... DO SOMETHING!
IrBeaver
01-06-2008, 06:26 PM
Well I've been waiting 5 days for my confirmation email before I looked in this forum and even with firewalls and spam blockers off aol still wasn't getting the email no matter how many times I manualy resent it. So I made a gmail account by following the link above, told the website to resend the confirmation and what da ya know it worked. So any one else has a problem just get a gmail account (it's free and fast)...:D
Darkgudda
01-07-2008, 08:06 AM
I have been waiting did what was suggested no such luck. Seems they probably need to check there automated server that sends the email out. Could be hiccuping.
TheCentrix
01-08-2008, 02:55 AM
have resent 11 time ! 5 new email adresses! NO RESPONCE! BUT YOUR EMAIL TELLING ME TO THE STANDARD LINE GOT THROUGH FINE1 what gives tickect #1545.
help..... DO SOMETHING!
Please turn off capslock...
I don't understand what you're talking about... can you rephrase that please.
Werewing
01-08-2008, 01:38 PM
cant receive vaildation...any on-site way?
sparkie13
01-08-2008, 02:05 PM
Was unable to receive on my RCN account, but worked fine after I changed to Hotmail. There are no message filters of junk filters running on my RCN account, but for some reason, the confirmation mail was never received.
wolfscout
01-09-2008, 03:57 AM
:mad:this is stooped i have bin wating for 6days and i still dont have the emale.:mad:
akatsuki323
01-09-2008, 04:06 AM
i haad tht problem4
Torricelli88
01-11-2008, 12:43 PM
i have registred an account whit a gmail but the confirm e-mail is not arrive yet >.<
cmg16
01-11-2008, 02:13 PM
how speak to a gm
mysti-chan
01-11-2008, 03:06 PM
I have two hotmail accounts and one gmail account. I have tried sending the validation e-mail many times for each account, I have no firewall or anything else.
I have tried what has been suggested but it is not working.
This is not exactly making me want to play the game.
mikesalim
01-11-2008, 03:15 PM
I've also just registered today...and have been waiting for 2 hrs and no confirmation email sent, I have already tried to change to all my emails but no luck. Can anyone help me?
m2011s
01-11-2008, 03:16 PM
I'm the same one with Mikesalim. Just try to create a new account but yeah...no luck...Please help =) Thanks before
mikesalim
01-11-2008, 03:29 PM
have try to create a new gmail account. previously using gmail account as well..No luck...GM please help
Strang3r
01-11-2008, 03:33 PM
have you checked your junk mail? I had this problem too before. No need to change acounts.
mikesalim
01-11-2008, 03:36 PM
Yes I've check all the junk mail, all the setting of the emails, and turning off the firewall (which I dun think is needed) since my email is web based =) Is it probably they just reset the server yesterday?
KassathraZorn
01-11-2008, 03:42 PM
I signed up 2 or 3 hours ago using my @gmail.com email address and have not yet received my confirmation email. I tried using the resend link. It's not in my spam folder.
Me wants to play :(
mikesalim
01-11-2008, 03:44 PM
same here kassathra, but I think all we can do now is just wait for the GM or CSR to fix this =) be patient =)
KassathraZorn
01-11-2008, 03:46 PM
Oh teehee. I should have read the announcements first. *blush*
http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37384
mikesalim
01-11-2008, 04:02 PM
so all we need to do is just wait right? =)
palidin631
01-11-2008, 04:03 PM
why cant i get a confirmation email either??
mikesalim
01-11-2008, 04:07 PM
same here...so all i need to do is just wait
mikesalim
01-11-2008, 04:12 PM
me neither
KassathraZorn
01-11-2008, 04:15 PM
You can keep yourself busy by watching videos of Fiesta! :D
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rQJQ4RayfzI&feature=related
movax2
01-11-2008, 04:16 PM
im not recieveing any e-mail..even with gmail,hotmail or yahoo somenoe plz help
KassathraZorn
01-11-2008, 04:16 PM
maybe I'll see you in the game... *taps foot impatiently*
movax2
01-11-2008, 04:17 PM
really whats ur name ganna be..and what server u gonna go on?
KassathraZorn
01-11-2008, 04:17 PM
im not recieveing any e-mail..even with gmail,hotmail or yahoo somenoe plz help
Outspark seems to be having technical trouble that they are working on. There is a message here about it: http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37384
KassathraZorn
01-11-2008, 04:18 PM
really whats ur name ganna be..and what server u gonna go on?
I'll be me -- Kassathra. But I don't know about servers. I've never played. I just saw it and thought it looked cute and wanted to play.
alienpoker
01-11-2008, 04:18 PM
I have several friends waiting for e-mail verification letters all have tried the resend verif. several times NOTHING!
movax2
01-11-2008, 04:21 PM
well u can find me as Mova..or zhaoyun....But i'll probly go with the First or second server i dont know...yea but i really want to play...me sad...me ask GM's me get nothing...lol
mikesalim
01-11-2008, 04:23 PM
yeah we probably will meet in the game...well otherwise we can arrange it in the forum =D
GM or CSR team please help us that desperate to play =) send us the confirmation account email please =) Thanks before
movax2
01-11-2008, 04:25 PM
i'll give u all cookies if u send the e-mail verification ^_^
Mireille.
01-11-2008, 04:34 PM
I'm having issues with this as well. I need to go take a shower atm, so I'll try and make some new Emails on different services to see if I have any luck that-a way~
Info:
Hour or so has pasted and no confirmation email has appeared.
Resent it twice, just resent a third time a few minutes ago.
Using Gmail.
Checked Spam folder.
m2011s
01-11-2008, 04:37 PM
I've tried that before no luck as well..since my original email i put is gmail, i've tried to sent it to hotmail and yahoo...=)
movax2
01-11-2008, 04:41 PM
ive tryed gmail yahoo and hotmal nothing..im gonna try that german one that worked..lol
m2011s
01-11-2008, 04:43 PM
really? is it worked?
movax2
01-11-2008, 04:48 PM
no it hasnt..and the private messenges ive sent to the GM havent been sent to me yet
movax2
01-11-2008, 04:59 PM
This is driving me insane..and someone help us/make an account 4 us with an e-mail
mikesalim
01-11-2008, 05:02 PM
the problem is, this not only happen to us...I guess this happens to all new account =)
movax2
01-11-2008, 05:21 PM
yea really
luigikingx
01-11-2008, 05:23 PM
ya im still waiting i'm gonna make another to check
movax2
01-11-2008, 05:27 PM
anyone have success with getting an e-mail everification
Brassy
01-11-2008, 05:33 PM
No, am not getting an email and have tried 3 different email addys. This game won't last long if this is the kind of service they are giving.
movax2
01-11-2008, 05:37 PM
yea really i was able to sign up 4 the one that doesnt support the Us
shad0w8
01-11-2008, 05:37 PM
Just wanted to say, Comcast.net email accounts aren't receiving the verification email, switched to one of my gmail accounts and it worked just fine. :)
My gmail account wont work with it :(
movax2
01-11-2008, 05:43 PM
gmail isnt working 4 some of the new people..ive even tryed other mail servers and it hasnt worked =(
KassathraZorn
01-11-2008, 06:11 PM
CSR_Cretz posted that all Outspark servers are back online (http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37501). But I'm still not getting a confirmation email. Is that still broken?
Big *hugs* to you if you fix it!
movax2
01-11-2008, 06:20 PM
crs said that he manuelly verified all our e-mails
shad0w8
01-11-2008, 06:23 PM
crs said that he manuelly verified all our e-mails
Mine is still unverified:(
movax2
01-11-2008, 06:25 PM
yea i checked mine to...and im still not verififed =(
ObsydiaN
01-11-2008, 06:29 PM
In this crual world there are the chosen ones and the forgotten ones. I let you choose the one we are.
Server issue isn't a very nice thing...
For Gmail adresses they can be old or new, both don't work.
Anyway see ya in 22 years, I hope this time email server will work.
FORME2POOPONU
01-11-2008, 06:52 PM
I'm also having the same problem.
Straywind
01-11-2008, 06:57 PM
yet another complaint... hope you can help..
movax2
01-11-2008, 07:06 PM
all these problems and not 1 gm to help its kinda sad
lumaz
01-11-2008, 07:10 PM
they must be at one of their elitist c0cktail parties
ObsydiaN
01-11-2008, 07:13 PM
U see there is 10 pages of ppl who have this problem, regardless of the other thread which is about the same problem. The poor CSR Cretz can't treat all the problem... There is a server issue, what we have to do is to wait that the problem is fixed.
We should try to resend the mail once a day until we got it.
movax2
01-11-2008, 07:14 PM
-.- ummm waiting.....hmmm kinda will get a bad review on help wise
lumaz
01-11-2008, 07:16 PM
you sound so positive for being left out....i give you shiny blue lick and stick star
ObsydiaN
01-11-2008, 07:19 PM
Just that i want to play and i can only wait that Outspark resolve their serv problems. So I wait.
Straywind
01-11-2008, 07:20 PM
hmm i imagin they have thier hands full at this time..
tisk ..
Shoxix2
01-11-2008, 07:22 PM
well yea maybe someone...1 of the Gm's Could post somthing to reassure us that they are working on it u know
lumaz
01-11-2008, 07:26 PM
i think you should get the burning torches and chase them out of their tower
ObsydiaN
01-11-2008, 07:27 PM
This way will not make you recieve the Validation e-mail, but you will be able to download the game client even if your account isn't fully completed.
You can download the Fiesta game client by a few sites and File Planet (http://www.fileplanet.com/) is one of them.
- Go to the File Planet (http://www.fileplanet.com/) website;
- create an account (it's free);
- type "Fiesta" in the search box top on the website;
- select the Fiesta client.
In order to download from File Planet (http://www.fileplanet.com/) you have to be installed their Download Manager. If you haven't you will automaticaly have an install requiest.
Straywind
01-11-2008, 07:27 PM
GRAB YOUR PITCH FORKS AND TORCHES WES HAVIN A LYNCH MOB.. whos bringin the rope?
Poyoy69
01-11-2008, 07:28 PM
*** I Sent One To My Msn Email, My Yahoo Email And My Gmail!!!!! Not One Email Was From Outspark And My Bro Made One Last Week He Got His Msg Right Away
Shoxix2
01-11-2008, 07:31 PM
Its New PLayer Hate i tell ya New Player HATE!!!!.lol
cmg16
01-11-2008, 07:38 PM
Hopefully they'll be able to fix this problem with valiations soon. I've tried at least 3 different e-mail adresses on three different e-mail providers.
movax2
01-11-2008, 07:40 PM
we all have cmg...some of us even 4 or 5
ObsydiaN
01-11-2008, 07:41 PM
If I can help ya I've a solvation in the post #103 (http://www.outspark.com/forums/showpost.php?p=321799&postcount=103).
movax2
01-11-2008, 07:43 PM
that solution isnt really helpful cause when we've dled the game it still doesnt cope with the faq after its all said and dun..we cant play
movax2
01-11-2008, 07:48 PM
well im dling the game so when i do get activated i will not have to wait even longer 4 the Dl...so its a good suggestion
ObsydiaN
01-11-2008, 07:58 PM
Exactly, we will already have the game installed. And when you're waiting if as me you're keen on Star Trek let's watch the first and second episodes (http://www.r4v3n.com/serie/Star-Trek-Enterprise-streaming-saison-1-Episodes-1-a-2-1-3467) of Star Trek Enterprise ! (English Version)
movax2
01-11-2008, 08:08 PM
i dont mind star trek..i i'll just go watch bleach and naruto while waiting...or p[lay some Box head..lol
ArcaneBow
01-11-2008, 08:56 PM
and how do we destory the ISP daemon or register at a different forums???
ArcaneBow
01-11-2008, 08:58 PM
Just wanted to say, Comcast.net email accounts aren't receiving the verification email, switched to one of my gmail accounts and it worked just fine. :)
ima try that thanks for the idea:D:)
ArcaneBow
01-11-2008, 09:32 PM
This way will not make you recieve the Validation e-mail, but you will be able to download the game client even if your account isn't fully completed.
You can download the Fiesta game client by a few sites and File Planet (http://www.fileplanet.com/) is one of them.
- Go to the File Planet (http://www.fileplanet.com/) website;
- create an account (it's free);
- type "Fiesta" in the search box top on the website;
- select the Fiesta client.
In order to download from File Planet (http://www.fileplanet.com/) you have to be installed their Download Manager. If you haven't you will automaticaly have an install requiest.
Thanks man ur a good help
ObsydiaN
01-11-2008, 09:37 PM
I try to do my best. Fiesta (or SoS) looks to be goods game and I think they merit to get more players. I'm glad to had help ya.
Alustreil
01-11-2008, 09:44 PM
Still no conformation email and its been almost 5 hours i used 2 diffrent emails and nothing please have a look at your site its not sending anything
movax2
01-11-2008, 10:01 PM
i dont know what going on but im not very pleased with the service here..i pmed Gm on the forums and havent gotten 1 responce from anyone of them..im not a happy camper
ObsydiaN
01-11-2008, 10:13 PM
:D
As I said somewhere here all we have to do is to wait, they are working on this fkin issue.
I want to play...:(
movax2
01-11-2008, 10:15 PM
u can only hold being so polite 4 so long..trust i know u get bored with somthing then u just wanna let it go..all the thension of wanting to play so bad.....imma dl Naruto and Bleach....now lol
nedivar_96
01-11-2008, 10:22 PM
who here thinks this game has too many bugs in it
movax2
01-11-2008, 10:23 PM
dont know yet..so far the only bug ive encountered was the E-mail verification bugg
nedivar_96
01-11-2008, 10:25 PM
i've been a member for almost 4 months now there so many bugs i could destroy the game with a quick virus
nedivar_96
01-11-2008, 10:26 PM
it isin't really that hard
ObsydiaN
01-11-2008, 10:31 PM
You should not. It is an open beta version of the game, so not finalized. And I don't think that the game's creators will let their game with those glitches for the final version.
I think that we have to let it chance to Fiesta.
nedivar_96
01-11-2008, 10:35 PM
i know all this stuff about this game yet i only 14 i could make this game so much better it could be the #1 top ranked game in the world by next week
nedivar_96
01-11-2008, 10:38 PM
trying to figure out where these guys went to school
nedivar
01-11-2008, 10:40 PM
now that i'm on my good account i can talk
this account is activated
nedivar
01-11-2008, 10:41 PM
well i'm gonna go play fiesta see ya
movax2
01-11-2008, 11:01 PM
hye rubbed it in being activated..that was wrong im gonna cry now =(
frogfoot
01-12-2008, 12:30 AM
Is there any solution to this beside checking ur spam folder?
movax2
01-12-2008, 01:41 AM
No we just gotta be patient with the Gm's or the Web Site Personal Before anything happens i guess
shad0w8
01-12-2008, 02:51 AM
I've asked the CSR people to manually activate mine and they haven't done it...:( If they don't do anything, people might start to riot, lol. *shivers*
benjiethtan
01-12-2008, 03:55 AM
i can only wait so long before going back to DOMO. i mean people have been complaining since december! goodness
shad0w8
01-12-2008, 04:02 AM
Actually some since October.
Zeo77
01-12-2008, 04:06 AM
October? How could this problem have been around for so long?
shad0w8
01-12-2008, 04:09 AM
Its only because the game is beta and its a lot of work for the staff.
shad0w8
01-12-2008, 04:31 AM
"if you want play you must do email on @gmail.com and register with this email:)
confimation email is sent there in 10sec:)
Sorry for my bad english im Poland
Um... gmail doesn't work...
LunarAves
01-12-2008, 04:54 AM
I use my gmail account and it is not working.
Juxyx
01-12-2008, 04:17 PM
I have a few suggestions that may help with receiving your validation email:
• Double-check that your account information is accurate
• Turn off any spam filters or firewalls that may be restricting the email being sent
If you are still unable to receive the validation email, you can manually have it resent by following these steps:
1. Login to your account at www.outspark.com
2. Click on “My Account” located in the upper-right corner
3. Click on the “Edit” button
4. Click “Re-send validation e-mail”
If none of these suggestions were of help to resolve this issue, I would recommend creating a new account and using a different email address.
CSR_Cretz
resend validation email...make new acc...all i test before...still doest work...