STOP SPAM BUFFS, write your congressman

[wizardbob]

Some of my friends have been developing tactics and strategies that go beyond the basic game play. One of these strategies is to use buffs for purposes other than simply increasing a stat or stats. The problem is, there are a lot of buff spammers who randomly, arbitrarily and without consultation, modify the buff status of others.

Why would anyone not want a buff? To many players, buffs are unqualified benefits which increase the power of the player. But there are several circumstances in which they interfere with the player's game experience and impose a distortion to it. One example of this is buffs on level 1 characters.

A friend related the story to me about how she had created a new character and while still doing the baby-steps quest, got an endure[2] buff. Her first thought was that she had been killed, as her HP bar graph went from 100% to nothing in a flash. But this is an experience player so she soon realized what had happened, the HP had remained constant at 10 but the bar when from 10 to 500. Her next reaction was annoyance. How long would she have to sit in her house waiting for the bars to fill? The buff spammer had interfered with the player’s schedule. Actually she didn't wait for the bars to fully charge and only waited a minute or so and began the series of visits to NPCs that the quests demanded. Within a minute or two she had leveled up and with level 2 came full HP and SP bars. "Great," you might say but the fact is the player could throw all caution to the wind, not worry about defense or healing stones or any such concerns. And there is the problem: instead of learning about HP management and the use of stones to avoid dying she was having an experience of easy success. The foundation upon which she would build her playing skills had been weakened. Of course she is an experienced player so the harm was minor but the point is that new players need to experience the failures along with the successes to learn the game and to enjoy the experience more fully.

Another reason people give for not wanting a buff is that they are trying to lose experience to forestall leveling up. Each 1% of experience that the player wants to lose requires dying once. Many times the player will want to erase 10-30% which means she wants to die quickly and rapidly. Getting "buffed" between one death and the next adds a lot of delay to the process and makes the playing experience much less enjoyable. Once again, the player’s schedule is changed without their consent.

There are some “purists” too, players who want to play the game using only their wits, developing optimized tactics for the purpose without the use of external “help.” They consider buffs to be analogous to steroids in the real world and, just as they choose to avoid steroids in real life, they choose to avoid buffs in the game life. When they receive an unsolicited buff they must choose between taking a detour to abyss or FBZ to die quickly (and lose experience in the process) or to stop what they are doing and sit for an hour while the buff wears off. Either way, their schedule is hijacked from them and they must adapt to artificial influences.

Besides these obvious reasons that buffs are unwanted, there are some clever players who have devised advanced uses for buff. I don't know all the detailed because these people consider them to have tactical advantages so they want to maintain secrecy around them but I do know them involve the use of buffs as timers and semaphores.

Clerics almost always say that they buff to help others. In their defense, it is true that most people consider a buff to be a blessing. But surprisingly, when told that random buffing doesn’t always help others, some of them get angry.

Sometimes they say “I’ll buff whoever I want to.” So much for the helping motive. Sometimes they say “I am keeping you from dying.” But good players don’t die without buffs, they do fine on their own and find it condescending and patronizing that someone else has no faith in them. The buffing skill seems to evoke a power trip in the minds of the cleric, a sort of megalomania. Or maybe it’s the kind of rationalization that a drug pusher uses when he provides drugs to his victims; listen to the calls of the addicts, “Need a buff near Shutain, pl0x.” Buffed from level 1, many players are fearful of going off the drugs.

One fact that shoots holes in the “helping cleric” argument is the “buff density” factor. Buffs are helpful to people who are out in the field fighting mobs and doing quests, yet the vast majority of spam buffers are in the cities of Elderine and Roumen. I have lost count of the times I have been buffed while standing around for long periods in town. Maybe I’m cleaning out my inventory or maybe I’m working on an alchemy skill, yet despite such things, I’m getting buffed! Clearly this is convenient for clerics, to stay in town. I don’t know, maybe they’re bored or off their ADHD meds or something. But buffs at such times don’t really help anyone so the cleric’s true motive is unclear. They might think its harmless but a growing number of people is finding annoying.

Some buffs are worse than others too. Higher level buffs cannot be overridden by basic Endure[1]. This is especially troublesome when the buff spammer attacks 40-50 minutes before a King’s Quest. The player cannot get a rebuff prior to the KQ easily and frequently goes into the KQ with a stale buff which runs out early. Adding insult to injury, some paladins have been known to use this attack deliberately. To get an idea of the problem for yourself, shout that you do not want a buff, “please do NOT buff me,” and see how long it takes for a malicious cleric to find you and buff you contrary to your expressed wishes.

I have heard of two drastic solutions that have been suggested: One calls for every player to have the ability to remove buffs at will, and the other calls for an option to be added that blocks buffs from being applied. Either way, control over the player’s stats and schedule gets returned to him. Unfortunately both of these require the developer to intervene. It seems unlikely that another solution can work however. For instance, asking clerics to only buff people who have expressed a desire for a buff needs the compliance of all the clerics and although most will probably cooperate, it only takes a few to make their efforts meaningless.

[malak_alleil]

this is useless and too much writing and if u dont want buff dont shout i dont want buff just be quiet and no one will buff u simple and simply cuz u dont like it .. someone els do

[e966890]

I think buffs are a good thing, no matter how you put it. Although a cleric buffing a low level character (i.e. level 1) as you say isn't very helpful to them in the learning experience, at the same time it's showing them that buffs actually help you by increasing the hp bar. I think sitting in a house isn't going to waste a lot of time, you're probably sitting in there for like a minute or two.

[drigr_x]

Stopped reading half way through. I will NEVER buff someone again, I vote all clerics follow in my foot steps. If someone is rude to you for it, tell them that someone on the forums said to stop buffing. We'll see how much people complain that they GOT a buff when they don't have them anymore...

[Icetra]

Funny thing is...

When I'm buffed, I actually die more easier. 0.o

[mulberry]

Wow...all that typing and you could have just said, "Please don't buff anyone unless they ask."

Anyways...wizardbob, since buffs seem to bother you so much, list your char names and server so that we don't buff you ever.

[yucina]

I agree with mulberry above me~

Personally, I go through Eldy/Roumen in hide mode, and I come out with a buff. and didn't realize it.
and personally...
I like it. :)

Makes me feel good that a cleric is doing a thankless job. <3

Thanks to all the clerics out there! <3333

and woot! 1k posts! <3

[busybia]

i stopped reading bout half way too.. when i was a noob and got randomly buffed, i couldn't figure out how it happened and trust me, i still managed to die going up against hero slimes, mushie fighters, king crab, and the big ratman guy (i already forgot.. ratman knight? in FoM? LOL) to name a few. i used to pray my hp bar would "magically" go up.

as for people who want to die, it also doesn't take that long. if anyone is seriously complaining about how long it takes to die after they get a buff, they have too much time on their hands.

[monkeyman-ownsyou]

complaining about us being helpful? How kind of you...will you complain if we stop healing you? Sine to many a cleric's heals are considered a buff... I buff lower level people to help them, because i know it can be hard to quest without assistance. We try to be nice yet you complain. Nobody else gets annoyed with a buff >.< It's a skill, meant to help others, deal with it or quit the game. Outspark's other games don't have buffs, why don't you go play one of those. Feel free to list your character names and your server so we can all make sure to never buff you again...or heal you...or revive you, since cleric's helpfulness seems to annoy you. Good day.

[flashrom]

Wow want it both ways. Don't want buffs at lower LV, don't want higher LV buff because "This is especially troublesome when the buff spammer attacks 40-50 minutes before a King’s Quest.".

I was buffed many times ( on all my char) at lower lv's and never asked for one. Didn't hurt me a bit with HP management. As for the health and sitting in your house to heal it. Don't sit in house if they die even with a buff and didn't get healed they lose the buff. This seems more a rant because you got buffed when you didn't want it.

Ok I will stop buffing people unless asked very very very nicely. I will never random buff. That also mean when you are about ready to die or you need a cure I will not cure or heal you in passing. That will make my life easier, save stones and save me a lot of time while hunting. Might make it harder on everyone else but you get what you ask for.

So we don't get this with the mages also I will tell my wife not to remove curses unless asked nice.

[shreanin]

Sorry but this is really useless, If you dont want a cleric to help someone then say "GTFO I WANNA PLAY THIS GAME WITHOUT HELP".

there is no need to right a whole novel on why geting a buff is bad.. :cool:

im sure those low levels like to get buffed, it helps them level up. and if they want to die quickly then just dieing once will get the buff off.

[drigr_x]

Yeah. Just cause you get a buff, you're HP can be like 100K but it doesn't mean you go charge Helga at level 1. You're still a nub with horrid DEF. Honestly, I'll go through times where I buff everyone in sight (a bit easier in Uruga since there isn't the spam) and even when I do "Buff Parties" in Elderine I've NEVER had someone tell me they don't want them. Not to mention, and FBZ(1) death is fast and doesn't make you loose Exp.

[monkeyman-ownsyou]

I guess it means i should not buff the OP's characters...which are as follows...

Teva: Pixie_ , Pixie_of_Teva , Princess_Magic , __Pixie__

Apoline: BoyzToy , Chitsu , kyouteki

[drigr_x]

Its also funny. If it was SO bad nto to be buffed... When do like 20+ people sit around Shutian at any given time looking for a buff and wont leave till they get it. Oh yeah, they also spam "buff plz buff plz buff plz buff plz"

[ego_trip]

The point is well taken, allbeit a long-winded one.

I see the reason why some people don't want to have one, and why lvl 1 players 'fresh off the boat' shouldn't have one. We have already seen a huge rise in the amount of people depending on buffs, and plvl, and the tower to throw them up so many levels, that they're now lvl 40 and don't know the proper tactics for their class.

But, since we're on the topic of clerics complaining... for the love of pete mages, stop using lifetap so damn much! I'm gonna stop healing you, seriously.

[flashrom]

The more I read this the more it gets on my nerves. I believe you can have your opinion but very rarely I don't get a TY when I buff someone random. We cleric have to deal with junk all the time now we get this. We are bad clerics because our rez don't have a .00009 sec cd, we are bad clerics because our PT splits up and we can't heal everyone, we are bad clerics because everyone thinks they are superman because we can heal, and now you want buffs only when you want them. I will say this feel lucky you get a buff at all. Getting sick of some of the attitudes of people on here.

[Nephthys]

I have never heard someone say they didn't want a buff, but I hear all the time complaints about how clerics are not doing our job when we don't buff.

HP management should be common sense. DEF has more affect on that than a helpful buff.

Wait in your house? Usually when a cleric buffs you, he/she will heal you.

And seriously, even if someone didn't want a buff, how the heck are we supposed to know? We are not and never were mind readers.

[bikiwa]

this is useless and too much writing and if u dont want buff dont shout i dont want buff just be quiet and no one will buff u simple and simply cuz u dont like it .. someone els do

What planet are u on? Spam buffs are those u get w/o asking. U seem to have missed the point altogether. A bit self absorbed, are we?

[bikiwa]

Sorry but this is really useless, If you dont want a cleric to help someone then say "GTFO I WANNA PLAY THIS GAME WITHOUT HELP".

there is no need to right a whole novel on why geting a buff is bad.. :cool:

im sure those low levels like to get buffed, it helps them level up. and if they want to die quickly then just dieing once will get the buff off.

Too many words? Overwhelms ur poor little brain? I'm sympathetic, poor thing. But get this, spam buffs are unwanted, are not a prerogative of clerics and its sad u dun get it.

[drigr_x]

Yeah... I know life tap is a ncie skill and all, but I HATE it when they decide it over a stone WHILE fighting. Sorry, but I heal fighters first, archers next, then mages. Why? Often times I find myself trying to keep a mage alive (this is only applying to KQs) but I heal once and that HP is gone before my CD is even through.

Does anyone else feel like its a bit hot in here...?

[bikiwa]

I guess it means i should not buff the OP's characters...which are as follows...

Teva: Pixie_ , Pixie_of_Teva , Princess_Magic , __Pixie__

Apoline: BoyzToy , Chitsu , kyouteki

VERY GOOD! It's a start, dun buff my characters either, please.
The ones I can remember are : Biki, _Pixie_, Pixie_Princess, Chibusa, tyvm

[nicolehere]

The more I read this the more it gets on my nerves. I believe you can have your opinion but very rarely I don't get a TY when I buff someone random. We cleric have to deal with junk all the time now we get this. We are bad clerics because our rez don't have a .00009 sec cd, we are bad clerics because our PT splits up and we can't heal everyone, we are bad clerics because everyone thinks they are superman because we can heal, and now you want buffs only when you want them. I will say this feel lucky you get a buff at all. Getting sick of some of the attitudes of people on here.

I agree with you 100%. I hate it when people call me a bad cleric because they ran off on their own and I didnt follow the ONE person in the party that decided they wanted to take a detour...

[flashrom]

Spam heal, spam cures, spam rez what else should we stop doing spam? Spam is good with crackers though but I don't think that is the point. This post has a point but more of a rant about a point. If a lower LV gets a LV1 buff ( 1 hour max) they will have to learn HP management sooner or later. Like talking about the little mouse (buffs) in the house when it comes to hp management when you have a elephant (tower) sitting on your bed. Don't care what LV you are you will either learn to manage your HP and SP or you will not make it far in the game.

[cecelia]

Wow...all that typing and you could have just said, "Please don't buff anyone unless they ask."

Anyways...wizardbob, since buffs seem to bother you so much, list your char names and server so that we don't buff you ever.

100% agree here

***i cant believe i read half of his/her wall of texts T~T***

[bikiwa]

I think buffs are a good thing, no matter how you put it. Although a cleric buffing a low level character (i.e. level 1) as you say isn't very helpful to them in the learning experience, at the same time it's showing them that buffs actually help you by increasing the hp bar. I think sitting in a house isn't going to waste a lot of time, you're probably sitting in there for like a minute or two.

Buffs are like drugs (steroids) and spam buffers are like drug pushers. If u think that is helpful then why not ask who wants them? I'm not against buffs, only against the unsolicited ones that intrude on the other players game experience.

[nilathiel]

tl;dr

If you don't want your buff, go suicide. Takes it out easily, doesn't it? :]

[bikiwa]

100% agree here

***i cant believe i read half of his/her wall of texts T~T***

LOL, is knowledge painful to u? The OP took the time to make the case in sufficient detail that 90% of the ppl could relate. For those of u in the other 10%, reading is an acquired skill.

[drigr_x]

Buffs are like drugs (steroids) and spam buffers are like drug pushers. If u think that is helpful then why not ask who wants them? I'm not against buffs, only against the unsolicited ones that intrude on the other players game experience.
Wow! I've NEVER heard of someone relate it to drugs! Normally people sit there and SPAM us for buffs and COMPLAIN when we DON'T!
LOL, is knowledge painful to u? The OP took the time to make the case in sufficient detail that 90% of the ppl could relate. For those of u in the other 10%, reading is an acquired skill.
Also, quit flaming other before I report you and ask this thread be closed...

[pockitpwns]

I'm a so terribly sorry for trying to help people out. Please forgive me sir.

[shreanin]

Too many words? Overwhelms ur poor little brain? I'm sympathetic, poor thing. But get this, spam buffs are unwanted, are not a prerogative of clerics and its sad u dun get it.



A buff, in no way can be bad. If someone who just started saw that they got there HP to go up, they would propobly see the cleric that did a magical power looking thing. if they are normal, they will ask what it is. If they arent and just go on with it then its their fault. stop acting like a 40 year old and get a job if you are going to call people on the internet "Poor, Little things"

[bikiwa]

I agree with you 100%. I hate it when people call me a bad cleric because they ran off on their own and I didnt follow the ONE person in the party that decided they wanted to take a detour...

The worst clerics are those that don't care what others want. I tell you I dun want a buff and u say u dun care, most ppl say TY. Well, I'm telling u IT STINKS, THE GAME IS NOT FOR U. What clerics ALWAYS say is they're helping: like KSrs help, since it is "help" that disregards the wishes of the helpee.

I think it's a maturity thing. Little children are totally self centered and ego centric and as ppl mature they develop empathy, the ability to care about others and their wishes. Clearly a great many clerics are spoiled children who prolly aren't old enuf by the ToS to play.

[ameliz]

Wow guys this Post has gotten WAYYY outta hand.... << Mage and cleric... i know how both parties feel bout the buffs and the healing ^ ^ ... but come on 99.9% OF ALL SERVERS (NOOBS) at lvl1 ARE ASKING TO BE BUFFED ^^ hello watch the chat more and ull see like 50 ppl spamming BUFF PLZ BUFF PLOX and so on.... i cant get on without seeing it every other person who speaks in game ^ ^... most of the NOOBS that are playing ARE PPLZ ALTS SO GUESS WHAT THATS HOW THEY KNOW BOUT BUFFS AND ASK FOR EM^^ anywho... This thread should be closed before we get some ppl on here who get really upset and end up saying or doing something they shouldn't... LET IT BE.. CLERIC'S JUST DONT HEAL NO ONE OR BUFF EM UNLESS IN UR PTY OR ASKED FOR IT VERY NICELY... and if u see the person who got this whole thing started ^ ^ DONT BUFF HEAL OR REV HER/HIM EVER AGAIN let her/him die all the time.. well i said wat i wanted to say so <3 EPITH<3
Ames 8xMage
lxl_Pepper_lxl 7xCleric!! <EPITH> LOVE BEING A CLERIC I DONT DIE ^ ^ AND MOST OF U DO BUT THEN GET MAD CAUSE U DIED... NOT CLERICS FAULT SINCE UR COMPLAING BOUT BUFFS... DONT LIKE IT O WELL...

[imeel]

lmao, someone can reduce that first post book in just a few words? D;

[busybia]

Buffs are like drugs (steroids) and spam buffers are like drug pushers. If u think that is helpful then why not ask who wants them? I'm not against buffs, only against the unsolicited ones that intrude on the other players game experience.

where are all the buff pushers when i need one? x.x

whenever i'm playing an alt, i never fail to appreciate my cleric (and other clerics as well <3) that much more than when i'm looking for a buff before kq or going to a dungeon.

i simply find it very difficult to believe that a buff would hinder anyone's game experience so drastically that they would wish to not be buffed. the ONLY time i have ever wished i wasn't buffed was when i was getting ready to set up shop and i knew the buff was going to be wasted :(

[nicolehere]

The worst clerics are those that don't care what others want. I tell you I dun want a buff and u say u dun care, most ppl say TY. Well, I'm telling u IT STINKS, THE GAME IS NOT FOR U. What clerics ALWAYS say is they're helping: like KSrs help, since it is "help" that disregards the wishes of the helpee.

I think it's a maturity thing. Little children are totally self centered and ego centric and as ppl mature they develop empathy, the ability to care about others and their wishes. Clearly a great many clerics are spoiled children who prolly aren't old enuf by the ToS to play.

Well if someone really doesnt want a buff, and tells me that beforehand then I won't buff you I'll just walk away and get on with my life. I dont see the big deal there. If you dont want the help, oh well its not hurting me any.

[N00d1e5]

The worst clerics are those that don't care what others want. I tell you I dun want a buff and u say u dun care, most ppl say TY. Well, I'm telling u IT STINKS, THE GAME IS NOT FOR U. What clerics ALWAYS say is they're helping: like KSrs help, since it is "help" that disregards the wishes of the helpee.

I think it's a maturity thing. Little children are totally self centered and ego centric and as ppl mature they develop empathy, the ability to care about others and their wishes. Clearly a great many clerics are spoiled children who prolly aren't old enuf by the ToS to play.

IM a cleric and I hear you. In fact I find it irritating too, I'm a 50+ cleric and I get buffed if I don't avoid those pesky palladins with nothing better to do. All I can say is, I only buff my friends and I don't rev clerics who spam. This is especially fun in KQ when they lie on the ground with M.duck dancing on their heads screaming for rev.

[mulberry]

Perhaps you would be better served by posting this in your own server section, so that the people on YOUR server know not to buff you.

You have chars on Teva and Apoline servers, right? Well, I'm on Bijou, so it does no good for me to know that you don't like buffs. You need to tell your servers.

[drigr_x]

Wow guys this Post has gotten WAYYY outta hand.... << Mage and cleric... i know how both parties feel bout the buffs and the healing ^ ^ ... but come on 99.9% OF ALL SERVERS (NOOBS) at lvl1 ARE ASKING TO BE BUFFED ^^ hello watch the chat more and ull see like 50 ppl spamming BUFF PLZ BUFF PLOX and so on.... i cant get on without seeing it every other person who speaks in game ^ ^... most of the NOOBS that are playing ARE PPLZ ALTS SO GUESS WHAT THATS HOW THEY KNOW BOUT BUFFS AND ASK FOR EM^^ anywho... This thread should be closed before we get some ppl on here who get really upset and end up saying or doing something they shouldn't... LET IT BE.. CLERIC'S JUST DONT HEAL NO ONE OR BUFF EM UNLESS IN UR PTY OR ASKED FOR IT VERY NICELY... and if u see the person who got this whole thing started ^ ^ DONT BUFF HEAL OR REV HER/HIM EVER AGAIN let her/him die all the time.. well i said wat i wanted to say so <3 EPITH<3
Ames 8xMage
lxl_Pepper_lxl 7xCleric!! <EPITH> LOVE BEING A CLERIC I DONT DIE ^ ^ AND MOST OF U DO BUT THEN GET MAD CAUSE U DIED... NOT CLERICS FAULT SINCE UR COMPLAING BOUT BUFFS... DONT LIKE IT O WELL...
I'm glad the people complaining aren't part of our server. I wouldn't buff/heal/rev/cure them even if I was so unfortunate as to be in a PT with them. Want a buff? use a vit scroll. Want a heal? But some potions. Want a cure? There's potions for that too. Want a rev? Well TO BAD! You can WALK back! Already lost the exp anyways.

[imeel]

i always give buffs with my cleric....why? because when my mage and archers were low level, all ppl know how squishy they are..and soloing is...sigh

clerics should support people, like when they ask for help when they need kill 200 mobs...

[Myn19]

I'm one of the purists lol.I've started being anti-buffs when:

-I saw a mage wacking a slime and the cleric just healed when he got low and buffed him instead of explaining how he can use skills...

-when a friend expected me to get a buff to tank in gh,o.0,he was sure it was quite neccesarry,he barely accepted to leave it and he still had doubts until after I did it.

-I was buffed for 3 days,no grinding without,just random buffers,the third my buff ran out and I died,it used to be something I could handle,I got too used to the extra hp and sp,my playing skills took a blow,since then I realised I'm more leet without :3

I don't suicide to get rid of them though,random buffers have the poor habit of buffing people that sit idly,so it expires by the time i go out of town,so really it's just a waste of sp,or maybe they like the light show?
They also buff only people sitting idly,I've been near stone npc for example and 4-5 ppl were idle,I moved a bit around and I didn't get buffed.
Some anyway

“I’ll buff whoever I want to.”

If you’re doing it for your own pleasure then don’t dare and sugest you’re doing it for my own good.

[nicolehere]

I'm glad the people complaining aren't part of our server. I wouldn't buff/heal/rev/cure them even if I was so unfortunate as to be in a PT with them. Want a buff? use a vit scroll. Want a heal? But some potions. Want a cure? There's potions for that too. Want a rev? Well TO BAD! You can WALK back! Already lost the exp anyways.

Lol that sounds good too! ^^

[drigr_x]

IM a cleric and I hear you. In fact I find it irritating too, I'm a 50+ cleric and I get buffed if I don't avoid those pesky palladins with nothing better to do. All I can say is, I only buff my friends and I don't rev clerics who spam. This is especially fun in KQ when they lie on the ground with M.duck dancing on their heads screaming for rev.
So... you'll see a whole KQ fail because you don't wanna rev another cleric...?

[flashrom]

Never had a person ( until now) ask me not to buff them. Now I am not aggravated about this anymore I find this post funny. Relating buffs to drugs. That is so funny. OK stop using scrolls, pots and charms everyone they are drugs also ( if you use buff as an example). Vit and Ment scrolls add more than my buffs lets not let the new players have them either. Stop the Academy's from giving them out as rewards so they can learn HP and SP management. If you don't want a buff sorry if you got one, sorry if I gave you one ( really sorry I read all that rant and let it get to me even a little) but my crystal ball is in the shop and it won't be replaced till next week. I can find many examples for any point I want to make. I can say buffing new people is good because they don't know how to manage their HP and SP well and that will give them time to learn. I can say fighters have so little SP that a buff at any LV can be a godsend. I can say a high LV buff before you need it won't hurt much because at higher LV KQ the clerics can buff you when you lose the old one and lower LV KQ I never needed one ( even on my tank). I can say many things but the point is if you don't want a buff make a char name " no buffs pls" and I will be happy to comply.

[N00d1e5]

Wow guys this Post has gotten WAYYY outta hand.... << Mage and cleric... i know how both parties feel bout the buffs and the healing ^ ^ ... but come on 99.9% OF ALL SERVERS (NOOBS) at lvl1 ARE ASKING TO BE BUFFED ^^ hello watch the chat more and ull see like 50 ppl spamming BUFF PLZ BUFF PLOX and so on.... i cant get on without seeing it every other person who speaks in game ^ ^... most of the NOOBS that are playing ARE PPLZ ALTS SO GUESS WHAT THATS HOW THEY KNOW BOUT BUFFS AND ASK FOR EM^^ anywho... This thread should be closed before we get some ppl on here who get really upset and end up saying or doing something they shouldn't... LET IT BE.. CLERIC'S JUST DONT HEAL NO ONE OR BUFF EM UNLESS IN UR PTY OR ASKED FOR IT VERY NICELY... and if u see the person who got this whole thing started ^ ^ DONT BUFF HEAL OR REV HER/HIM EVER AGAIN let her/him die all the time.. well i said wat i wanted to say so <3 EPITH<3
Ames 8xMage
lxl_Pepper_lxl 7xCleric!! <EPITH> LOVE BEING A CLERIC I DONT DIE ^ ^ AND MOST OF U DO BUT THEN GET MAD CAUSE U DIED... NOT CLERICS FAULT SINCE UR COMPLAING BOUT BUFFS... DONT LIKE IT O WELL...

That's the idea, don't buff unless asked. Better still, clerics should demand payment for service rendered. I think 8-10S is a fair price. But I just sell subscriptions anyway, my subscribers can get buffed upon request whereas strangers don't. It seems to me that buffs are not as much like drugs as they are like sex and I'm not in the game to give it away, duh.

Funny thing too, I don't die. My characters are able to live without buffs. Imagine that! Players who are good enough to be self reliant and not codependent with you!

[nicolehere]

That's the idea, don't buff unless asked. Better still, clerics should demand payment for service rendered. I think 8-10S is a fair price. But I just sell subscriptions anyway, my subscribers can get buffed upon request whereas strangers don't. It seems to me that buffs are not as much like drugs as they are like sex and I'm not in the game to give it away, duh.

Demand payment? Now thats a bit ridiculous.

[N00d1e5]

Funny thing is...

When I'm buffed, I actually die more easier. 0.o

Buffs definitely affect the way players go at the game. That is the OPs point.

[flashrom]

Demand payment? Now thats a bit ridiculous.

Been done on my server. I wouldn't demand payment but seen some people try. I would "spam buff" the person that wanted the buff if I saw someone asking to be paid to get one. Guess I should stop that.

[Icetra]

Payment? Kinda idiotic.

[flashrom]

Servers are back up I think so I am done with this post. I think I will only buff, rez, heal and cure someone when asked from now on ( and asked politely) if I do it then. Maybe stop buffing, rezing, healing, and curing unless in PT, in guild or academy. Gives me something to think about.

[nicolehere]

Been done on my server. I wouldn't demand payment but seen some people try. I would "spam buff" the person that wanted the buff if I saw someone asking to be paid to get one. Guess I should stop that.

Well if someone is really desperate to actually pay for a buff, more power to 'em I guess? lol..

[drigr_x]

Funny thing too, I don't die. My characters are able to live without buffs. Imagine that! Players who are good enough to be self reliant and not codependent with you!
I can live without it too. but I don't HAVE to... >.>

[jonnie_noxville]

Let me be the first to say... this is a blessing in disguise to all players...especially clerics.

currently i play kabal on cypion... and i am a major "drive by buffer".

I buff everyone in sight once i get started.

But mainly i do this because it is impossable to be a cleric lvl47 and above in roumain or eldi... and get anything done!

It doesnt matter if your restoning- comp and decomping-enhancing your weapon- setting up a store-or even just trying to turn in quest... thats all you hear is buff plz.

Me myself, i try to get you before you ask.

But i do agree with one part... dont buff in roumain! PERIOD

It only takes a level 10 charactor to get to eldi through the portal guard...
and if you cant make it to level 10 without a buff...then you definatly need to learn how to play.

and honestly as far as that goes... maybe we shouldnt be buffing anyone below lvl 21... so they can truely be tested doing the level 20 class change.

If you are truely here to help others be better ... then maybe "A LITTLE TOUGH LOVE" is in order.

PLEASE DON'T BE TO MAD AT ME FOR SPEAKING THE TRUTH :(

[Myn19]

I'm glad the people complaining aren't part of our server. I wouldn't buff/heal/rev/cure them even if I was so unfortunate as to be in a PT with them. Want a buff? use a vit scroll. Want a heal? But some potions. Want a cure? There's potions for that too. Want a rev? Well TO BAD! You can WALK back! Already lost the exp anyways.

That's like a fighter that snears a mon in kq.Technicaly it should be ok,but what if the person's melee and trying to get the kill for a quest?
Asuming the player gets mad at the fighter for snearing,what would the fighter do now?Why,refuse to snear at the boss of course.

You're being like this,if you're not going to do your part in the pty you're out if I'm leader,I won't ask for buffs,heals or cures otherwise.If I'm partying a lvl 47 it means I've reached a high enough lvl to know how to play my char and I should actualy have that extra hp and sp.What's good gameplay in making a lvl 5s hp and sp 100x bigger?It's like a cheat.

[drigr_x]

That's like a fighter that snears a mon in kq.Technicaly it should be ok,but what if the person's melee and trying to get the kill for a quest?
Asuming the player gets mad at the fighter for snearing,what would the fighter do now?Why,refuse to snear at the boss of course.

You're being like this,if you're not going to do your part in the pty you're out if I'm leader,I won't ask for buffs,heals or cures otherwise.If I'm partying a lvl 47 it means I've reached a high enough lvl to know how to play my char and I should actualy have that extra hp and sp.What's good gameplay in making a lvl 5s hp and sp 100x bigger?It's like a cheat.
...Er... That statement was directed only at the people complaining about BEING buffed...

[Myn19]

...Er... That statement was directed only at the people complaining about BEING buffed...

I'm one of the purists lol.I've started being anti-buffs when:

-I saw a mage wacking a slime and the cleric just healed when he got low and buffed him instead of explaining how he can use skills...

-when a friend expected me to get a buff to tank in gh,o.0,he was sure it was quite neccesarry,he barely accepted to leave it and he still had doubts until after I did it.

-I was buffed for 3 days,no grinding without,just random buffers,the third my buff ran out and I died,it used to be something I could handle,I got too used to the extra hp and sp,my playing skills took a blow,since then I realised I'm more leet without :3

I don't suicide to get rid of them though,random buffers have the poor habit of buffing people that sit idly,so it expires by the time i go out of town,so really it's just a waste of sp,or maybe they like the light show?
They also buff only people sitting idly,I've been near stone npc for example and 4-5 ppl were idle,I moved a bit around and I didn't get buffed.
Some anyway


"I'll buff whoever I want"

If you’re doing it for your own pleasure then don’t dare and sugest you’re doing it for my own good.

.-. if this isn't it I don't get it ^^''

[Myn19]

In fact,I'm starting to see that endure really should be partywise.Have fun ptying and reptying low lvls trying to get the buff to stick lmao,about time they learned how to play,if they can't then they'll have to pay >=D(for pots and scrolls).No more hassling for buffs,no more invites in pties and then kicks when you buff the pt,no more arrogant tower clerics that don't buff lower lvl pt members,no more soloing for high lvl clerics,no more sp costs.

[drigr_x]

I wouldn't mind this. But what about being the only (or highest) cleric in you guild...? It would suck to not be able to buff your whole guild/acad.

[Myn19]

I wouldn't mind this. But what about being the only (or highest) cleric in you guild...? It would suck to not be able to buff your whole guild/acad.

The fact that you are part of a group doesn't make it an exception,the same things apply,mostly everyone is in an acad or guild.
There are other ways to show your love XD

[pikafanisvocal]

Well, what to do? There are always people who are ungrateful to those who are kind. One being the OP.

[Myn19]

Well, what to do? There are always people who are ungrateful to those who are kind. One being the OP.

That's it I'm getting a sig with:"Do read my posts!"
That should draw attention :mad:,I've always noticed how people with a sig get more respect and attention =[

Sorry for off topic

[Asheer]

I remember that there was once a debate (looong time ago) about payment for cleric service but entire idea was very quick turned down as ridiculous.
And for the OP's post.
I don't known what logic he use but it's totally missplaced.
Somewhat i do have fellings that he will soon post that random buffing is against ToS because can be counted as harassment :rolleyes:.
And to end this.. too bad that OP's courage end somewere in middle of this thread because i have weird fellings that after revealing of his characters OP simply switch to alternative account.
Perhaps i am wrong but somethings tells me that i am not ;).

One final word to OP.
I wish you good luck in your leveling without so despised buffs and making himself Enemy of the state for cleric is not a good way to achieve final goal in any MMO.

[silksilk]

lol'd @ OP, hes a bit new seems like, let him be =P

[fireyair]

Can someone explain to me what harm a little extra HP can do?

If you are going to give me the crappy steroid argument, don't. Please, there is no problem in finding a challenge after being buffed. You could try going to a higher level area, or just not raise your HP above the original mark. It's not so hard to only heal halfway.

Sheesh, next thing you know, some one's going to complain about random rezzing in KQs. I mean, losing a heart would provide more of a challenge.

I fully support random buffing. Heck, I would love being able to buff over the chat-box. If you think buffs are 'cheats,' then you need to lighten up. Having skills is also like cheating, not to mention weapons. Everyone should just walk around naked and punch mobs to death. That way, we'll be living life on the edge.

This is worse than guys who maintain "common courtesy" by letting everyone pass them on the freeway without realizing they are causing more delayed traffic than there would be without their "common courtesy."

[drigr_x]

Can someone explain to me what harm a little extra HP can do?

If you are going to give me the crappy steroid argument, don't. Please, there is no problem in finding a challenge after being buffed. You could try going to a higher level area, or just not raise your HP above the original mark. It's not so hard to only heal halfway.

Sheesh, next thing you know, some one's going to complain about random rezzing in KQs. I mean, losing a heart would provide more of a challenge.

I fully support random buffing. Heck, I would love being able to buff over the chat-box. If you think buffs are 'cheats,' ten you need to lighten up. Having skills is also like cheating, not to mention weapons. Everyone should just walk around naked and punch mobs to death. That way, we'll be living life on the edge.

This is worse than guys who maintain "common courtesy" by letting everyone pass them on the freeway without realizing they are causing more delayed traffic than there would be without their "common courtesy."
Its funny. They try and call a cleric skill that is much sought out a "cheat" last I checked, 99.9999999% of the cash shop is a "cheat". That TINY % being statless perm items. Last I checked, an extender boosts your HP for WAY more than a simple Endure buff.

[Blaxcalibur]

..................................a rant about being buffed? *literally facepalmed*

[gena_konstantin]

I dont really care about buffs although I say thanks to the person who randomly buffs me :o
I prefer using the t1 scrolls I spent time and money on making although t1 buffs boost my hp to 2k which i like to see :D
Seriously, buffs r nice but it wasn't necessary to rant about buffs. Every game has it, you can't go to every game and say to every person who buffs you "Immature" lol

Off Topic: This is gonna sound rlly noob but how do u get a signature? .___. I cant find the option anywhere TT^TT

[Cherushi]

Buffs are like drugs (steroids) and spam buffers are like drug pushers. If u think that is helpful then why not ask who wants them? I'm not against buffs, only against the unsolicited ones that intrude on the other players game experience.


Ohhh, that's rather interesting point of view. I'm a drug pusher irl... so it shows in game. :) Hohoho. ^^ I have a bit of suggestion to your big problem.

(1) When a nearby cleric comes, shout: DONT BUFF PLZ!
(2) When you get buffed, go die. Sorry for the loss of exp but if you hate the buff so much, maybe it's no big deal, after all it's more important to lose the ominous buff that RUINS your game experience? :S

You and the OP must be friends. I like your thinking. At least you defined your arguments why you didn't want it.

I read that novel. I was entertained highly. XD Too bad you're not in Bijou, I will spam buff you just to irritated you. :)

Yes, sadly, I'm one of the immature clerics that is most of the times bored so I ninja-buff people. :3 I'll go level a cleric at your server just for you. :3 Spam buffer at your service! 8D

I will not argue against your points since you are the type who will not listen who goes on the defensive mode by insulting others. There's no point in having a rational and supposedly fun discussion. I applaud the OP for a well written rant.

Thank you for the amusing read. You've entertained me in my times of frustration as I'm lagging badly at the moment. XD

Can someone explain to me what harm a little extra HP can do?

If you are going to give me the crappy steroid argument, don't. Please, there is no problem in finding a challenge after being buffed. You could try going to a higher level area, or just not raise your HP above the original mark. It's not so hard to only heal halfway.

Sheesh, next thing you know, some one's going to complain about random rezzing in KQs. I mean, losing a heart would provide more of a challenge.

I fully support random buffing. Heck, I would love being able to buff over the chat-box. If you think buffs are 'cheats,' ten you need to lighten up. Having skills is also like cheating, not to mention weapons. Everyone should just walk around naked and punch mobs to death. That way, we'll be living life on the edge.

This is worse than guys who maintain "common courtesy" by letting everyone pass them on the freeway without realizing they are causing more delayed traffic than there would be without their "common courtesy."

I love your post. <3 Thank you for bothering :3

And I won't stop ninja-buffing. :3 Stay away from Bijou, if I find you don'twant buff XD I'll buff you more. I'm ebil immature kid <3

[oakrivermark]

I appreciate every random buff I get, but I kinda I agree with OP about buffing new players at low levels. If a low level with 10 HP receives, say a 500 HP, buff they never have to worry about monitoring their HP, therefore not really learning how to play effectively. Then when the buff does run out, they run around demanding another one.

This might sound like a dumb idea, but maybe a player should have to reach a certain level, like maybe 20, before they can receive a buff. That way they might learn to also rely on scrolls, potions, and stones as well as learning appreciation for any future buff they may receive. Besides buffs aren't needed at low levels, if they were, Clerics would have the skill at those levels.

Again I am thankful for every buff I receive, and try not to waste it(people who spam "bufplz", get one and them spend it dancing in front of shutian for 50 minutes, then spam "rebufplz"). There are times I don't want one.

One time I was killing my character in Concealed Peak(wasn't ready to level), when a cleric came in and buffed me. I thanked them for the buff and proceeded to explain what I was doing, they respond "Oh, OK". So off I go and die again, spawn back in and they buff me again, I explain again I don't really want a buff right now, but would appreciate one after I die about 30 more times. Off to die again, spawn back in and guess what buffed again. This carried on a few more times until I finally just switched characters and did something else. Lesson I learned, when I'm trying to kill on of my characters as soon as I see a cleric I switch to a different character and do something else.

[Myn19]

Can someone explain to me what harm a little extra HP can do?

If you are going to give me the crappy steroid argument, don't. Please, there is no problem in finding a challenge after being buffed. You could try going to a higher level area, or just not raise your HP above the original mark. It's not so hard to only heal halfway.

That's not my problem with it,once you get buffed you love it,sometimes a little too much,you adjust to the new hp and sp and need it constantly to survive because your reaction time is slowed accordingly.I'm not going to go out of my way,if I was questing I'll continue,the majority of buff addicts attack mons their lvl because they're easier,they're not looking for a challenge,they're looking for a cheat,you won't see ppl buffing themselves to attack higher lvl mons,they ask high lvls for plvl if they want better exp fast =_='''.

Sheesh, next thing you know, some one's going to complain about random rezzing in KQs. I mean, losing a heart would provide more of a challenge.

[Lol,since we're on the subject I like tanking without a cleric,epic experience in robo when everyone was dead or running and i was fighting both mobs and robo,in all those over 50 tried I finaly got the kill :D

I fully support random buffing. Heck, I would love being able to buff over the chat-box. If you think buffs are 'cheats,' ten you need to lighten up.

Lol,you lighten up when you see fail tanks that can't tank without a buff when they should be able to easily,you lighten up when in pvp you finaly reach the mage and do a full number on him and get him for a quarter of his hp,you lighten up when no one in your pty can survive without a buff in the tower past 13th floor and you get to be the lucky person that waits for everyone.EDIT:i forgot to add,they die both with and without ^^,I wait for them to come back up every floor haha

Having skills is also like cheating, not to mention weapons.

Like I mentioned before,don't **** with me,you know as well as I do that the game is designed around them,they're not extra,they're definetly needed,they're the entire point of leveling to rpgers,strategies and interactions are built around them.If having X amount of hp and sp over the normal is what you live for fine.Have fun asking someone to press a button for you to make you insta-happy.*presses button*happy now?8D
I wish I was so easy to please.

Everyone should just walk around naked and punch mobs to death. That way, we'll be living life on the edge.

Everyone should just walk around with weps and armor with 2x the def and dmg,with equip with +12% crit,with special scrolls that give 50% def and dmg and one hit everything and everyone.
*gasp* It's already happening,perfect world ^-^

This is worse than guys who maintain "common courtesy" by letting everyone pass them on the freeway without realizing they are causing more delayed traffic than there would be without their "common courtesy."

You're like the nice boy that's just helped the poor granny cross the street,except she was waiting for her bus there,but it's the thought that counts :>



In Bold^

10char

EDIT:Btw,as long as I don't quote him I'm not adressing the op,I agree with the idea but I don't like the way he expressed himself.
EDIT 2:Oak,I sugested that endure should be a party skill.It's on 6th page.
EDIT3:waiting for someone to post so i don't double post..nah,not really=P,checking everything about the other posts so i don't miss any good opportunities >:3 for when i do post

[Jandalyn]

Buffs are like drugs (steroids) and spam buffers are like drug pushers. If u think that is helpful then why not ask who wants them? I'm not against buffs, only against the unsolicited ones that intrude on the other players game experience.

And how about the cleric's game experience that gets intruded on by someone running up while there fighting something wanting a buff and proceeds to kill what the cleric is fighting because THEY don't want to wait till the cleric is done?

[sychosis]

TL;DR: LOL



A friend related the story to me about how she had created a new character and while still doing the baby-steps quest, got an endure[2] buff. Her first thought was that she had been killed, as her HP bar graph went from 100% to nothing in a flash. But this is an experience player so she soon realized what had happened, the HP had remained constant at 10 but the bar when from 10 to 500.

This is an embellishment, plain and simple. No "experienced player" assumes they died while walking in Roumen, sorry.

Her next reaction was annoyance. How long would she have to sit in her house waiting for the bars to fill? The buff spammer had interfered with the player’s schedule.

Completely false. Your friend was under no obligation to fill their HP bar. None.

Within a minute or two she had leveled up and with level 2 came full HP and SP bars. "Great," you might say but the fact is the player could throw all caution to the wind, not worry about defense or healing stones or any such concerns.

Again, false. HP boost or no, when your HP drops, you heal. That's the only lesson you need to learn about stones. Low = bad, high = good. The delay between stone use is longer, but to assume Endure makes for invulnerability is nothing short of ludicrous. You don't use a stone, the imp gang is going to curb stomp you.

Another reason people give for not wanting a buff is that they are trying to lose experience to forestall leveling up. Each 1% of experience that the player wants to lose requires dying once. Many times the player will want to erase 10-30% which means she wants to die quickly and rapidly. Getting "buffed" between one death and the next adds a lot of delay to the process and makes the playing experience much less enjoyable. Once again, the player’s schedule is changed without their consent.

Yet again, false. Endure does not modify the current HP value, only the maximum. It takes no longer to die with Endure than it does without unless you are healed. And really, I would love to see you ask clerics to stop healing. I really would.

There are some “purists” too, players who want to play the game using only their wits, developing optimized tactics for the purpose without the use of external “help.”

Quit playing massively MULTIPLAYER RPGs then, is all I can say. It's completely illogical to assume you can play an MMORPG and have 0 interaction with other players.

They consider buffs to be analogous to steroids in the real world and, just as they choose to avoid steroids in real life, they choose to avoid buffs in the game life.

The ridiculousness of this comparison is staggering. Do I really need to go into detail?

When they receive an unsolicited buff they must choose between taking a detour to abyss or FBZ to die quickly (and lose experience in the process) or to stop what they are doing and sit for an hour while the buff wears off.

Or go to FBZ1, be killed quickly (plenty of people would help :D) and lose nothing.

Besides these obvious reasons that buffs are unwanted, there are some clever players who have devised advanced uses for buff. I don't know all the detailed because these people consider them to have tactical advantages so they want to maintain secrecy around them but I do know them involve the use of buffs as timers and semaphores.

You know, I have a timer too. I call it a "watch." There's one built into Fiesta too!

Clerics almost always say that they buff to help others. In their defense, it is true that most people consider a buff to be a blessing. But surprisingly, when told that random buffing doesn’t always help others, some of them get angry.

Probably because we're sent an unending stream of mixed signals. "YOU BUFFED ME! BAD CLERIC!" "BUFF ME YOU STUPID CLERIC!" "HEAL PLZZZZ!" "I'M A PURIST AND I NEED NO HEALS!"

Sometimes they say “I’ll buff whoever I want to.” So much for the helping motive. Sometimes they say “I am keeping you from dying.” But good players don’t die without buffs, they do fine on their own and find it condescending and patronizing that someone else has no faith in them.

That sounds like a personal problem. When I buff someone, the vibe I send out is "hey man, good hussle, here, you deserve it *slaps butt in a manly way*"

The buffing skill seems to evoke a power trip in the minds of the cleric, a sort of megalomania. Or maybe it’s the kind of rationalization that a drug pusher uses when he provides drugs to his victims; listen to the calls of the addicts, “Need a buff near Shutain, pl0x.” Buffed from level 1, many players are fearful of going off the drugs.

Oh lawdy! I is a drug pusher! Heaven help meh!

One fact that shoots holes in the “helping cleric” argument is the “buff density” factor. Buffs are helpful to people who are out in the field fighting mobs and doing quests, yet the vast majority of spam buffers are in the cities of Elderine and Roumen. I have lost count of the times I have been buffed while standing around for long periods in town. Maybe I’m cleaning out my inventory or maybe I’m working on an alchemy skill, yet despite such things, I’m getting buffed!

Firstly, I never ask for buffs. Ever. Ok, there was this one time I asked for a buff from saint_attila on my already higher level cleric for the lulz, but that was it. Every time I get one via ninja buffing, it motivates me to do something with it, because unlike some, I appreciate the monetary and time investment the cleric makes to make killing that little bit easier.

Clearly this is convenient for clerics, to stay in town. I don’t know, maybe they’re bored or off their ADHD meds or something. But buffs at such times don’t really help anyone so the cleric’s true motive is unclear.

To help people that have returned to town to hand in quests/restone, etc.? ~_~

They might think its harmless but a growing number of people is finding annoying.

Well, technically yes, going from 0 to 2 is a growing number. Congratulations! d-(^_^)z

Some buffs are worse than others too. Higher level buffs cannot be overridden by basic Endure[1]. This is especially troublesome when the buff spammer attacks 40-50 minutes before a King’s Quest. The player cannot get a rebuff prior to the KQ easily and frequently goes into the KQ with a stale buff which runs out early. Adding insult to injury, some paladins have been known to use this attack deliberately.

Were you NOT just arguing "buffs are bad, mmmkay?" What does it matter if it expires?

To get an idea of the problem for yourself, shout that you do not want a buff, “please do NOT buff me,” and see how long it takes for a malicious cleric to find you and buff you contrary to your expressed wishes.

People have various ways of asking for buffs. Some spam BUFF PLZ. Some ask politely. Some have been (to my own disgust) trained to dance for buffs. That, my friend, jumps out at me as reverse psychology. Don't want a buff? Just walk on by.

I have heard of two drastic solutions that have been suggested: One calls for every player to have the ability to remove buffs at will, and the other calls for an option to be added that blocks buffs from being applied. Either way, control over the player’s stats and schedule gets returned to him. Unfortunately both of these require the developer to intervene. It seems unlikely that another solution can work however. For instance, asking clerics to only buff people who have expressed a desire for a buff needs the compliance of all the clerics and although most will probably cooperate, it only takes a few to make their efforts meaningless.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a bit, when I see you, or your friend in Apoline, I am going to T4 Endure your brains out. And because I can, I'll wear my safe set too :3

[elementangel]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a bit, when I see you, or your friend in Apoline, I am going to T4 Endure your brains out. And because I can, I'll wear my safe set too :3

LMFAO god bless you x3

And personallyy.. I think that this is messed up. If you have enough time to write a novel on why buffs are BAD, then you clearly have no life. You think it's alright to yell about a cleric buffing people who don't want it? Well guess what, the majority of people DO want it.
Why don't you waste your time yelling at archers for kiting your mobs, mages for AoEing your mobs, or fighters for mocking your mobs? But for Christ's sake, don't yell at CLERICS for BUFFING.

[pikafanisvocal]

That's it I'm getting a sig with:"Do read my posts!"
That should draw attention :mad:,I've always noticed how people with a sig get more respect and attention =[

Sorry for off topic

Sorry, but you are too insignificant for me to pay attention to.

Don't worry, it's not personal though. I treat everyone who goes nitpicking about the negative impact of having extra health for 1 hour the same way.

[globule]

TL;DR: LOL


<snipped>

Again, false. HP boost or no, when your HP drops, you heal. That's the only lesson you need to learn about stones. Low = bad, high = good. The delay between stone use is longer, but to assume Endure makes for invulnerability is nothing short of ludicrous. You don't use a stone, the imp gang is going to curb stomp you.

<snipped>


Having passed thought that I understand the OP's point, and sadly do not agree with you.
At a low level with 500 HP, yes you need to heal again, but you will NEVER use stones. You will kill the imp gang very easily, plus the King Crab and a few others, and when your HP will be low enough you will shroom.

Then you will repeat and continue leveling.

Once the buff runs out [and you may be now not lv1 anymore but more lv15],
your HP is back to normal and you can die in a few hits from mobs. And you are surprised! How can I survive? I cannot kill it before dieing!

The normal time to learn to use stones and to get a feel of your character's strength and weakness is usually between lv 1 and 15.
In particular you realize that as a cleric you have a heal that is usefull, as a mage that you are fragile and should attack from far away, etc.

A buff moves that period in the lv 15+ where it is harder to learn as you have been leveling already easily without having to consider your HP really much and you are already developing a playing style and have already gotten a feel of your character's strength and weakness - but a biased one.

Mostly for this I agree on the particular point that, from my point of view too, buffing low-level players is not necessarily helping their play in the longer run.
[But mind, I think that too for Izyel tower making 20-50 leveling a snap with the same effect long term, but that is another story :)]

[drigr_x]

Like I mentioned before,don't **** with me,you know as well as I do that the game is designed around them,they're not extra,they're definetly needed,they're the entire point of leveling to rpgers,strategies and interactions are built around them.If having X amount of hp and sp over the normal is what you live for fine.Have fun asking someone to press a button for you to make you insta-happy.*presses button*happy now?8D
I wish I was so easy to please.


....Us clerics STRIVE to achieve 47 and see that the "Endure Skill" is no longer shown as unlearnable... We hit that and its like "Yes! Fianlly! People will WANT to party me!"

[Andrewnester]

Buffs happen, whether a player wants one or not, they might get one.
And I stopped reading after your friend, and how she joined as a level 1?
Let me say:
You must be new to the game.
Go level on a slime, once you level. your HP and SP are completly filled.
It's not harassment.
Stupidness ._.

Don't hate on us clerics!!
not cool....


There are many different types of Clerics.
I happen to be a PvP cleric. I don't bother leveling much.
I am the heals behind a PKing party ^^<3
/offtopic

[Myn19]

Sorry, but you are too insignificant for me to pay attention to.

Don't worry, it's not personal though. I treat everyone who goes nitpicking about the negative impact of having extra health for 1 hour the same way.

ok,but don't you dare complain if you get spam asked for buffs by the buffaholics you made.
on the other hand,please do,that'll be my revenge ^^,it would be hilarious :3

[bigj3234]

lol I stopped reading because it's silly. I am totally gonna find this guys chars on my lvl47 cleric (which I made specifically because I wanted to buff people) and just follow him, rebuffing every 5 minutes. Healing too! Oh Gosh no!!!!!

OMG ARE YOU SERIOUS?!!! - Weekend Update ftw.

[globule]

....Us clerics STRIVE to achieve 47 and see that the "Endure Skill" is no longer shown as unlearnable... We hit that and its like "Yes! Fianlly! People will WANT to party me!"

I would be surprised that, because you suddenly have endure, people will want to party with you. Normally they should want to party with you because you can heal [a lv 3 skill if I remember].

However for sure they will want you to ENDURE them... but for party, endure would not be the trigger for that.

[FlaredanceR]

Okay, truth be told buffs can help a bit at lower levels when you need to kill the 'boss' mobs (i.e., Mushie Fighter, Hero Slime, Ratman Fighter etc) and think, if mages didn't get a buff for the lv 20 job thing, do you have any idea how hard it would be? >.> Another thing, scrolls are buffs. Do you nominate not using those either? I got a few laughs out of this. Thanks :3 lol

[Andrewnester]

LMFAO god bless you x3

And personallyy.. I think that this is messed up. If you have enough time to write a novel on why buffs are BAD, then you clearly have no life. You think it's alright to yell about a cleric buffing people who don't want it? Well guess what, the majority of people DO want it.
Why don't you waste your time yelling at archers for kiting your mobs, mages for AoEing your mobs, or fighters for mocking your mobs? But for Christ's sake, don't yell at CLERICS for BUFFING.
^She said it all.
@OP:
Why would you complain about being buffed?
The soul purpose of you creating this thread is just for negative attention, obviously you don't get any positive attention.
I don't understand why you would complain about a cleric, how about us? Getting Spam asked "Buff pls"
Really annoying, I don't buff people anymore unless they say something more compasionate like: "Forb, buff me please" or "Can I get a buff?"
Its better than "Buff pls"
._.

[FlaredanceR]

TL;DR: LOL


I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a bit, when I see you, or your friend in Apoline, I am going to T4 Endure your brains out. And because I can, I'll wear my safe set too :3

xD
10char .-.

[drigr_x]

I would be surprised that, because you suddenly have endure, people will want to party with you. Normally they should want to party with you because you can heal [a lv 3 skill if I remember].

However for sure they will want you to ENDURE them... but for party, endure would not be the trigger for that.
Heal + Endure > Heal. A cleric with Endure will find a PT much easier than one without.

[Myn19]

....Us clerics STRIVE to achieve 47 and see that the "Endure Skill" is no longer shown as unlearnable... We hit that and its like "Yes! Fianlly! People will WANT to party me!"

You..party….someone under 20 lvls?Why would they pt anyway:
buff please :3
*buffs*
*person goes away*
o.0,and wouldn’t they want to pt you for something else than enduring?if not then sorry but you’re not that good of a cleric.
I’m not trying to demean the value of endure,what I meant was that in no way are skills and equip less valuable than endure.




Heal + Endure > Heal. A cleric with Endure will find a PT much easier than one without.

If you say so,actually,I think it’s because they’re better clerics overall because they’re more experienced(higher lvl).Endure just seems to be the tombstone for everyone to think the cleric went from noob to pro.




[SIZE="5"]




"I'M A PURIST AND I NEED NO HEALS!"


Hold on,I don't ask for buffs until I get in a pt with a 47 cleric,and I'm not ptying for plvl either.I just don't like relying on temporary things,can you blame me?If I got used to endure then I'd have to ask 3-4 clerics every hour,they despise me for asking and I feel better without so why bother?
Like I mentioned I've seen my peers failing without it,I doubt the game developers intended for the game to be unfair so it isn't supposed to be like this.

Idk if purists are supposed to dislike heals but I like going without because I dislike relying on others.I have a cleric myself.
I don't like relying on others simply because they prove to be inadequate,there are plenty clerics that don't heal or have such slow reaction times that you're better off using a stone,there are some that stop healing you at critical moments,so I can't ever let my guard down.
If I use a stone every time the cleric heals and have a big green 0 for heal how does the cleric actualy help me?If the cleric heals me at the end when i already defeated the mon and used a stone what's the point?If the cleric is sabotaging or leaves in an important moment how can I trust any cleric?

That sounds like a personal problem. When I buff someone, the vibe I send out is "hey man, good hussle, here, you deserve it *slaps butt in a manly way*"
XDD

Oh lawdy! I is a drug pusher! Heaven help meh!

Check cleric complaint threads on buff spammers,there are buffaholics

Firstly, I never ask for buffs. Ever. Ok, there was this one time I asked for a buff from saint_attila on my already higher level cleric for the lulz, but that was it. Every time I get one via ninja buffing, it motivates me to do something with it, because unlike some, I appreciate the monetary and time investment the cleric makes to make killing that little bit easier.

I used to log out and save it for kq or close the store because of it,but I've learned they do it for the light show.


Were you NOT just arguing "buffs are bad, mmmkay?" What does it matter if it expires?

If you see so black and white that you don't see a point then you don't deserve much consideration.Neither if you're so set on believing the op is out to get you.He's angry,not manifesting a vendetta.

People have various ways of asking for buffs. Some spam BUFF PLZ. Some ask politely. Some have been (to my own disgust) trained to dance for buffs. That, my friend, jumps out at me as reverse psychology. Don't want a buff? Just walk on by.

That's the thing,there are random buffers.Walking by may get you buffed asking or not.I don't sugest saying don't buff me lol,they will probably follow you

I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a bit, when I see you, or your friend in Apoline, I am going to T4 Endure your brains out. And because I can, I'll wear my safe set too :3

You may think you're inoccent about it,but I doubt the op is just *misguided*



in bold^

10char

EDIT:



Why would you complain about being buffed?
The soul purpose of you creating this thread is just for negative attention, obviously you don't get any positive attention.
._.

Read the thread guys,actualy read it before posting your own intake on the op,read it!=_='''

[speed_grapher]

XD it's called block or hide mode >.>
i seem to rarely buff people that ask normally just random unbuffed people
( and no i didn't feel up to reading everything posted here)

[Cherushi]

i
Read the thread guys,actualy read it before posting your own intake on the op,read it!=_='''

We did read it. :P It must be you who's not getting the pointlessness of the thread. :)

[saharu]

I read the entire thing (the original post, anyway) and I liked it. Lol, don't know why people are getting angry by it though. I personally thought it was just an expression of opinion saying that "hey, some people in game don't like to get buffed, necessarily." So I respect that opinion, especially since it was so well presented. I will never randomly buff people for my own amusement ever again (at least in town) XD

[pikafanisvocal]

ok,but don't you dare complain if you get spam asked for buffs by the buffaholics you made.
on the other hand,please do,that'll be my revenge ^^,it would be hilarious :3

Again, but this time using your head for once?

Buff spammers are just going to ask for them be it you take the initiative to ask for buffs, those are two very different things.


Hold on,I don't ask for buffs until I get in a pt with a 47 cleric,and I'm not ptying for plvl either.I just don't like relying on temporary things,can you blame me?If I got used to endure then I'd have to ask 3-4 clerics every hour,they despise me for asking and I feel better without so why bother?
Like I mentioned I've seen my peers failing without it,I doubt the game developers intended for the game to be unfair so it isn't supposed to be like this.

Idk if purists are supposed to dislike heals but I like going without because I dislike relying on others.I have a cleric myself.
I don't like relying on others simply because they prove to be inadequate,there are plenty clerics that don't heal or have such slow reaction times that you're better off using a stone,there are some that stop healing you at critical moments,so I can't ever let my guard down.
If I use a stone every time the cleric heals and have a big green 0 for heal how does the cleric actualy help me?If the cleric heals me at the end when i already defeated the mon and used a stone what's the point?If the cleric is sabotaging or leaves in an important moment how can I trust any cleric?

Let's see. You don't like relying on clerics to heal you. That's very nice and all, but let me ask you. How does all these claptrap have to do with clerics buffing people who didn't ask for them?

Less red herrings, get on topic for once.

[pikafanisvocal]

I read the entire thing (the original post, anyway) and I liked it. Lol, don't know why people are getting angry by it though. I personally thought it was just an expression of opinion saying that "hey, some people in game don't like to get buffed, necessarily." So I respect that opinion, especially since it was so well presented. I will never randomly buff people for my own amusement ever again (at least in town) XD

Actually, the entire premise is flawed. Having 1 hour of health buff isn't significant enough to sully anybody's playstyle.

If OPed really wanted to get rid of the health buff so that he can renew it, it's not hard to suicide once.

If it's rubbish, no matter how well-presented it is, it remains rubbish - lacking of any human intelligence and morals behind it.

[Myn19]

We did read it. :P It must be you who's not getting the pointlessness of the thread. :)

Nice try ^^,you didn’t read it completely.And it shows in pika’s posts.
You have yet to actually say something constructive so your own posts are null

Again, but this time using your head for once?

I wonder what made you insult me :3,are you friends with fireyair or something?Otherwise I don't see why you would take it so personaly

Buff spammers are just going to ask for them be it you take the initiative to ask for buffs, those are two very different things.

Mmmm,I wonder why i said this:

That's not my problem with it,once you get buffed you love it,sometimes a little too much,you adjust to the new hp and sp and need it constantly to survive because your reaction time is slowed accordingly.I'm not going to go out of my way,if I was questing I'll continue,the majority of buff addicts attack mons their lvl because they're easier,they're not looking for a challenge,they're looking for a cheat,you won't see ppl buffing themselves to attack higher lvl mons,they ask high lvls for plvl if they want better exp fast =_='''.

Let's see. You don't like relying on clerics to heal you. That's very nice and all, but let me ask you. How does all these claptrap have to do with clerics buffing people who didn't ask for them?

When you comment on someone response to another person’s post you should read the post it’s responding to as well.The forums will suddenly make much more sense.or maybe you did read and conveniently left out that fireyair brought on that comment,hmmmm


"I'M A PURIST AND I NEED NO HEALS!"


Less red herrings, get on topic for once.

Lol,you seem to miss the fact that I’m not the op,I will discuss whatever aspect of buffing I want.
Whenever I get bad feedback for what or how the op presented the idea I don’t feel like I’ve made a mistake or that I should stop.I asked you to read the whole thread so that you may see my other posts,the responses and understand what do I want exactly,why my posts aren’t rubbish,and that I like debating,as long as I have something to say against you I will no matter if you’re a figure ig or the forums.
But I’ll make it simple,when you randomly buff a noob you may be introducing them to buffs,that buff lasts them through all their quests,they shroom and then continue,
but oh no,their buff ran out,the game is way too hard D:,
asks for buff from cleric,they happily return to questing,they join kq,they died 3 times D:,
I need a better buff,goes up to t3,4 buffer,buff plox,
awww,aren’t they cute?*buffs*,
join kq again,wins :D,buffs are amazing! :D,
doesn’t go out of town without buffs until 20,*has to do job change but buff ran out,
can’t find clerics,tries on their own for the first time,fails,tries again,searches for buffer,can’t find,tries again,nothing ._.,
buys t2 scrolls,finishes easily =D,
sees buffless person tank and hears a friend complete job change without buff:OMG,NO WAI!
*tries*,fails,*returns to buffs
Have fun tending to them the rest of your cleric lives.They’re the people I have to play with =_=’’’’.

Why I insist endure should be a party skill I’ve already mentioned,but you failed to read that too.
*changes sig*

[jasonthe13]

i love people who randomly buff they are nice
hp management is a lame excuse~
i am sure people want buff rather than not
well maybe you dun need it as much in the lower lvls but it seem so usefull in the later games~

[missdeena]

i randomly buff all the time ^_^ i enjoy it. if i buff a low level i make sure to gradually restore health so hp isn't really a problem. i'm grateful for when i get buffs i don't often get buffs so when i do im overly appriciative

[Cherushi]

Nice try ^^,you didn’t read it completely.And it shows in pika’s posts.
You have yet to actually say something constructive so your own posts are null


Okay, my apologies for being lazy. :) Others were so kind to point out the things I wanted to say, with better words and explanation so I never bothered. I'm the type of poster who will not post something that has already been said. You seem to be forgetting the other arguments presented to all issues of buffing. That's why I said you're the one who's not getting it.

Now since you challenged me to say something I shall reply to your latest post which by the way are highly entertaining to read especially this last one:


I’ll make it simple,when you randomly buff a noob you may be introducing them to buffs,that buff lasts them through all their quests,they shroom and then continue,
but oh no,their buff ran out,the game is way too hard D:,
asks for buff from cleric,they happily return to questing,they join kq,they died 3 times D:,
I need a better buff,goes up to t3,4 buffer,buff plox,
awww,aren’t they cute?*buffs*,
join kq again,wins ,buffs are amazing! ,
doesn’t go out of town without buffs until 20,*has to do job change but buff ran out,
can’t find clerics,tries on their own for the first time,fails,tries again,searches for buffer,can’t find,tries again,nothing ._.,
buys t2 scrolls,finishes easily =D,
sees buffless person tank and hears a friend complete job change without buff:OMG,NO WAI!
*tries*,fails,*returns to buffs
Have fun tending to them the rest of your cleric lives.They’re the people I have to play with =_=’’’’.


You may think I'm biased because I'm a buffer for fun.

But here's my take on your, I must say, very creative view of things. A scenario that really happens only .. rarely in my observation. You are putting the blame on wrong thing (the buff and buffer). If they are lazy enough to sit in town idly, and not do their job quest, kingdom quest or any quest for that matter without a buff, they are simply lazy and possibly a noob. There's no way the endure buff is causing that mentality. LOL. :P I say majority of the people who DO ask for buff play their characters well. What does that say then? Is it endure that really causes this funny scenario you speak of? :P Have you been to high level maps my friend? Do you see majority of the high level players spamming for buff?

No, eventually people learn that they need to play without buffs. There are some STILL that do not learn this unfortunately. Some do ask politely but will STILL go on their merry way to questing or what have you even if they do not get one. Why because simply they are smart enough to realize if they idle around because of not having a buff, they will not level or simply waste their precious time in game. If what you say is true, that it is endure that causes these noobs to be lazy and all, why, something must magically happen when they level as they learn to suddenly play the game without a buff. Btw, clerics at higher levels buffs randomly more! Uh-oh.. (chuckles).. Why? Because higher levels don't tend to spam us asking for endure. :P If MAJORITY of them didn't turn out as you said they would, what does that say to your point of view of how noobs become more nooby because of a little buff?

Why do I say MAJORITY of the points presented AGAINST random buffing does not make ANY sense? The OP along with those who takes= buffing randomly so badly, are taking things seriously and are too narrow minded to see that noobs will always be noobs with or without a buff.

Also, I don't agree with your point as to how endure should be exclusive to parties only. There are party buffs and there are not. Why is this? Party buffs were designed to encourage some to party and to reward those that do grind in parties. However, even if this is an MMORPG, you can not force people to party. Shall you leave them behind then? If a game is not fun for solo, doesn't have to be equally fun as in party but if it's not fun and extremely hard then that can cause problems for players. The endure buff is not necessary, but it's a way of helping those that prefer soloing. Gives clerics a way to fulfill their role even outside parties.

Do not throw your silly scenarios of how it causes someone to be overly dependent, ends up not knowing how to play their character, ruining other people's experience etc etc etc. It doesn't affect gameplay too much.

However, they may be times they will get overconfident when they have a buff or what not, but I assure you, if that person is NOT a noob, he/she will learn to learn the limits of a buff and also learn to play the game without it.

You like debate eh? I'm presenting to you that your logic is flawed in the sense you put the blame on the wrong source of the problem you speak of.

What you are saying: Noobs are overpopulating and growing in Isya because of the random buffs that spambuffers give

What I'm saying: It's not the buffs that TURN them to noobs. They are already noobs with or without it if they don't manage to figure out how to play the game without it. And when I mean noob, it's either they're lazy or donot know how to play the game well (I.E. not earning enough money to buy scrolls or pots or worse they don't know the existence of pots and scrolls).

When you're looking at the wrong source of the problem, you will end up solving nothing. After all, all this arguing we all want a better game play experience correct? My stance, it's not the random buffs that cause this disruption, it's the noobs, being noobs. That's all there is to it. :)

What else can I point out, oh, have you noticed this is the first time we've seen someone complained about getting buffed? Few were valid points like buffing L1 -15 perhaps, but most are nonsense for me. What does it say that only now after almost 2 years of Fiesta did a thread pop up like this ? This means, MAJORITY of the players find buff helpful. And no, they are not turning to noobs as you dread.

:)

[djanimeuk]

Excellent post. About time I had something decent to read. The slight problem here though is: You're posting on this forum, and most readers have a very small attention span, or are unable to read properly.

You shouldn't be given a buff without having been spoken too first. It appears helpful to the cleric who buffed you, and in all but the most extreme cases, it is.

Actually. Your post was so interesting that I'm going to gift you. Choose something (in the singular) up to the value of 10,000sc, then grab me in game.

=)

Arklight : Teva

[lisaleggs]

Actually, the fact that I'm a LVL 92 Paladin aside, the biggest thing out of ALL of this that stands out the most is 2 fold.

1) ~ How overly well written the original post is
2) ~ The original poster never re-posted

Additionally the original poster has several characters on 2 servers all under lvl 47 and not one of them is a cleric.

Just an observation. :p

[Cherushi]

You beat me to it. I wanted the OP to post, I liked his original post too. It was extremely well-written albeit I don't agree with his points. XD

[lisaleggs]

Actually reminds me of a course in college several friends took which required this type of interaction and recording of responses.

[Myn19]

Okay, my apologies for being lazy. :) Others were so kind to point out the things I wanted to say, with better words and explanation so I never bothered.

The way you expressed yourself(to me) :
*giggle* I'm right and you're wrong,
I just am XDD

You didn't quote anyone and neither put forth a neutral response,you basicly called me out:

We did read it. :P It must be you who's not getting the pointlessness of the thread. :)

I'm the type of poster who will not post something that has already been said. You seem to be forgetting the other arguments presented to all issues of buffing. That's why I said you're the one who's not getting it.

Be kind enough to quote them or tell me the post number,you don't need to show me the exact phrase either,I'll search.If it’s anything new other than :
“everyone loves buffs,you don’t?OMG”
let me know.
Anything that would contradict my statement that endure doesn’t belong in other enviroments than 47+ or of you find anything interesting ok
I sadly haven’t noticed those parts


Now since you challenged me to say something I shall reply to your latest post which by the way are highly entertaining to read especially this last one:

Lol,I see,if you think that’s the extent of my intelligence you’re wrong.That’s the cause of trying to talk with people like you

You may think I'm biased because I'm a buffer for fun.

Not really,the way you respond is enough.

But here's my take on your, I must say, very creative view of things.

Before you say I lie and ask for proof I’ll ask for proof that I’m not right.if only I had taken pics every time it happened ._.

A scenario that really happens only .. rarely in my observation.

Your argument values as much as mine,it’s just observation.

You are putting the blame on wrong thing (the buff and buffer). If they are lazy enough to sit in town idly, and not do their job quest, kingdom quest or any quest for that matter without a buff, they are simply lazy and possibly a noob. There's no way the endure buff is causing that mentality. LOL. :P I say majority of the people who DO ask for buff play their characters well. What does that say then? Is it endure that really causes this funny scenario you speak of? :P

I admit I was impressed you noticed that but you’re wrong if you think I haven’t,I can’t convince the noobs,not with words anyway,but I can definetly talk with the buffers,you would think they’d be more responsive when they’ve been unhappy with it to the extreme at times and it would actually benefit them.Ask me what benefits them and I will have proof that you didn’t actually read the thread =P
Why does this actually concern me?Yet again if you had read my posts you’d know that my own gaming experience is influenced because I inadvertedly interact with such people.

Why do I say MAJORITY of the points presented AGAINST random buffing does not make ANY sense? The OP along with those who takes= buffing randomly so badly, are taking things seriously and are too narrow minded to see that noobs will always be noobs with or without a buff.

True,but once obliged they can’t really continue can they?If I can take one thing that helps them continue being the way they are I will.
Buffs are slowing down their progress.

Do not throw your silly scenarios of how it causes someone to be overly dependent, ends up not knowing how to play their character, ruining other people's experience etc etc etc. It doesn't affect gameplay too much.

However, they may be times they will get overconfident when they have a buff or what not, but I assure you, if that person is NOT a noob, he/she will learn to learn the limits of a buff and also learn to play the game without it.

As people have said time and time again the noob population is definetly growing.

You like debate eh? I'm presenting to you that your logic is flawed in the sense you put the blame on the wrong source of the problem you speak of.

Even another quote would work here but I won’t dignify you,it’s in my response to fireyair,fifth paragraph.Now tell me,can I influence that in the slightest?No

What you are saying: Noobs are overpopulating and growing in Isya because of the random buffs that spambuffers give

What I'm saying: It's not the buffs that TURN them to noobs. They are already noobs with or without it if they don't manage to figure out how to play the game without it. And when I mean noob, it's either they're lazy or donot know how to play the game well (I.E. not earning enough money to buy scrolls or pots or worse they don't know the existence of pots and scrolls).

When you're looking at the wrong source of the problem, you will end up solving nothing. After all, all this arguing we all want a better game play experience correct? My stance, it's not the random buffs that cause this disruption, it's the noobs, being noobs. That's all there is to it. :)

:)

Now,imagine they couldn’t take shortcuts,they would either evolve or leave ^___^

What else can I point out, oh, have you noticed this is the first time we've seen someone complained about getting buffed? Few were valid points like buffing L1 -15 perhaps, but most are nonsense for me. What does it say that only now after almost 2 years of Fiesta did a thread pop up like this ? This means, MAJORITY of the players find buff helpful. And no, they are not turning to noobs as you dread.




Because everyone likes buffs of course,it doesn’t directly affect anyone badly making it unnoticeable,why would you hate having extra hp and sp?If you miss having one just go by a cleric and ask ^^
Nevermind the hilarity of having hp and sp 100x more than normal,not being able to face anything without or having to abide by another person’s rules.





up there ^

[pikafanisvocal]

up there ^

I do hope you aren't a psychoanalyst, working as a profession somewhere along that line, or are considering to work as one, because if you did, the perfectly sane people would end up in the mental hospital while those that aren't are free to roam around.

[Antony_Aravind]

Finally read all posts atooke mor ethan half hour

bahhh u dunt want buffs ? ( go get anti endure shield)

And i dun believe that no ppl want no buffs here

[Myn19]

I do hope you aren't a psychoanalyst, working as a profession somewhere along that line, or are considering to work as one, because if you did, the perfectly sane people would end up in the mental hospital while those that aren't are free to roam around.

:D.....:p........http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc177/Tobi-Sama/Other%20Anime/moro_laugh.gifhttp://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll286/wildanimelover220/th340625th8w5d40o41.gif

[pikafanisvocal]

:D.....:p........http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc177/Tobi-Sama/Other%20Anime/moro_laugh.gifhttp://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll286/wildanimelover220/th340625th8w5d40o41.gif

What a cute wolf <3.

[jasonthe13]

I think my eyes hurts X.X
walls and walls or words

[saiyou8]

...I just read the first post and,

Are you kidding me?
First you noobs spam for buffs 24/7, cuss at afk clerics when they won't buff you (Cleric went afk in the toilet -> Kinda hard to reach keyboard from there and buff your squishy ***.)
You shout at Elderine there is no one buffing at Shutian, hurry clerics we need buffs!
Then you stalk one cleric from Roumen to Uruga just because you want a buff, spamming every chat you can BUFF PLS PLZZZZZZ PLZZZZZZ MEEEEEEE PLXX BUFF ME and the cleric is about to tell you to gtfo.

...Now you're saying clerics should stop buffing random people, because it is too much work for you to use a HP stone/rest/use a potion?

If you got no time to rest for 1 minute so your HP gets full, or you're too lazy to move your finger from the left side of the keyboard to the right side, Honestly, Quit the game.
I wonder how do you have time to type in all the clichéd phrases ''Buff me plzzzz I need it for kq pls'' with ridicilous excuses, but you don't have one damn minute to rest.

And if you refer to noobs who get buffed and without buff they feel like they can't do anything, you're making me laugh.
You can choose scroll production skill and make some Vitality/Defense scrolls or just buy a few scrolls from vendors- I can assure you there is MANY vendors in Roumen, Elderine and Uruga selling scrolls from t1 to t5.

Kthxbai.

[lightningmystix]

Hmm, sorry if the points I'm going to offer below are already mentioned, I haven't read through all ten pages of this thread yet haha. @_@

First of all, addressing the fact that players who are buffed at a low level will not learn to function without a buff.
That point is moot. Buffs don't last forever. Unless the player is continuously buffed throughout their entire play life (er, maybe they have a higher leveled cleric slave? o_o), which is highly unlikely, they will lose their buff at some time. It is then that they are able to learn how to function without buffs. Moreso, the penalty for dying at let's say, level 30 is much more than level 10. They will, for sure, learn how to play without being buffed.

Second, people who want to lose exp are stalled in their efforts by a buff.
I would have to say, can this person losing their exp think outside the box for a second or two?
To die easily, all you have to do is attack a monster, then stand by and wait to die. This process is easily hastened by removing armour.
Thinking back to the days when I played my archer, a monster at around 7x will hit for about 200 per hit. Buffs usually give around 500-700 hp (too lazy to confirm actual numbers TT__TT). Take off your armour, and you will get hit for probably around 300-400 per hit. End point is, you will still die if you have a buff, quickly enough. The buff makes next to zero difference.
Also, clerics are not mind readers. They don't know whether you want a buff/saving or not. If I was a cleric, and I saw some guy dying, I'd help out on the assumption that he/she is lagging. If you don't want the cleric's help, then politely tell them so. Is it seriously their fault if they try to help out by buffing?

As for purists, I only have one suggestion.
For every cleric that comes up to buff them, politely tell them to not buff them again because they would like to conquer the game without other's help. Soon, enough clerics will know that they do not desire buffs and will stop buffing them. Slow, tedious, and annoying for these purists, yes, but there's no other way. Like I said above, clerics can't be blamed for buffing because they are merely trying to help. They don't know whether you want a buff or not.

So you may ask me why clerics don't just stop random buffing in general since they don't know whether their target would like a buff or not?
Imo, the people who desire buffs largely outweigh those that do not. There are many more people who would be happy to get a buff than be unhappy.
And also, by stopping a cleric from random buffing, you're denying them of one of their classes' funs too. I know a lot of clerics like to go on buff rampages around Fiesta when they get to lvl 47, which is a good experience for many of the people they help and themselves (I got my first buff this way).

I am not one to ask for buffs (I always think I'm disrupting a cleric when I do this, haha...), so random buffs are always a pleasant surprise for me. If all the clerics in Fiesta suddenly stopped random buffing one day, I'd wonder where all the kindness went, since I associate random buffing/rezzing with cleric kindness.

I'm not sure how much sense my post made (probably not much), but my end note is saying that random buffs should remain. I don't play a cleric over level 47, so I can't say what it feels like as a cleric giving off random buffs, but as a receiver of buffs, I'm always happy. For those that don't like random buffs, I suggest them just telling the cleric they would prefer to not receive one.

[Myn19]

Check the last 3 pages guys,or even since 6th.

[Chaola]

Check the last 3 pages guys,or even since 6th.

Your posts made my day, thanks <3

I understand what you're trying to say, and I quite agree.

I think there is a reason as to why the buffs are only availables at level 47.
When you look at the amount of HP gain by a T1 Endure, when your level is near T2 endure, it's becoming not worth it. What I mean is that, if you're not in the level range of the buff, it's not for you. Be it higher, or in the case of newbies who need to learn how to play, lower level.

It's like always keeping a child away from a hot oven. You are protecting him, but there is a time where you won't be there, and he'll burn his hand. In the end, the lesson thaught with the burn is more important than the constant protection. He'll know not to ever touch a hot oven ever again =)

I have no opinion about the idea of a party endure. What if someone wants to solo a boss ? They won't be able to get a buff anymore =/

I am guilty of having buffed newbies before. Because I leveled my mage, after I capped my fighter and got to see how hard it was to kill those gang imps -_-
But it's then that the buff takes away the meaning of party, like cookies/charms do.

[sun_mattman1995]

Buffs are perfectly okay. Be happy we have them.

[sychosis]

You will kill the imp gang very easily, plus the King Crab and a few others, and when your HP will be low enough you will shroom.

That's all they need to learn. That low HP needs to be restored, and high HP means you're ready to fight. What they use to restore their HP is of little concern. When the time comes, they'll utilize what they have available to them. Really, I'd argue that 0 exp loss at earlier levels is far more detrimental than an hour long Endure. Endure spaces out stone usage by making them require fewer stones to kill something, but still enforces the idea that you cannot kill forever without healing yourself. 0 exp loss teaches them dying has no consequences.

Hold on,I don't ask for buffs until I get in a pt with a 47 cleric,and I'm not ptying for plvl either.I just don't like relying on temporary things,can you blame me?If I got used to endure then I'd have to ask 3-4 clerics every hour,they despise me for asking and I feel better without so why bother?
Like I mentioned I've seen my peers failing without it,I doubt the game developers intended for the game to be unfair so it isn't supposed to be like this.

Idk if purists are supposed to dislike heals but I like going without because I dislike relying on others.I have a cleric myself.
I don't like relying on others simply because they prove to be inadequate,there are plenty clerics that don't heal or have such slow reaction times that you're better off using a stone,there are some that stop healing you at critical moments,so I can't ever let my guard down.
If I use a stone every time the cleric heals and have a big green 0 for heal how does the cleric actualy help me?If the cleric heals me at the end when i already defeated the mon and used a stone what's the point?If the cleric is sabotaging or leaves in an important moment how can I trust any cleric?

That's all well and good, but that wasn't my point.

Check cleric complaint threads on buff spammers,there are buffaholics

I've already commented on the ridiculousness of comparing Endure to drugs. If you want me to be more in depth, just say so.

I used to log out and save it for kq or close the store because of it,but I've learned they do it for the light show.

Because they totally can't just keep recasting it on themselves. :rolleyes:

If you see so black and white that you don't see a point then you don't deserve much consideration.Neither if you're so set on believing the op is out to get you.He's angry,not manifesting a vendetta.

I want some consistency is all. "Buffs = Bad," and "Buffs are acceptable unless you buff me at the wrong time," are two very different arguments and looks more to me like the OP was grasping at straws. I don't know what you're talking about concerning vendettas. Pika's assessment of you coming across as some backwards psychoanalyst is strangely spot on.

That's the thing,there are random buffers.Walking by may get you buffed asking or not.I don't sugest saying don't buff me lol,they will probably follow you

My point is you're less likely to be buffed if you keep to yourself than if you shout to Elderine that you are currently unbuffed.

You may think you're inoccent about it,but I doubt the op is just *misguided*

wat

[pikafanisvocal]

That's all they need to learn. That low HP needs to be restored, and high HP means you're ready to fight. What they use to restore their HP is of little concern. When the time comes, they'll utilize what they have available to them. Really, I'd argue that 0 exp loss at earlier levels is far more detrimental than an hour long Endure. Endure spaces out stone usage by making them require fewer stones to kill something, but still enforces the idea that you cannot kill forever without healing yourself. 0 exp loss teaches them dying has no consequences.



That's all well and good, but that wasn't my point.



I've already commented on the ridiculousness of comparing Endure to drugs. If you want me to be more in depth, just say so.



Because they totally can't just keep recasting it on themselves. :rolleyes:



I want some consistency is all. "Buffs = Bad," and "Buffs are acceptable unless you buff me at the wrong time," are two very different arguments and looks more to me like the OP was grasping at straws. I don't know what you're talking about concerning vendettas. Pika's assessment of you coming across as some backwards psychoanalyst is strangely spot on.



My point is you're less likely to be buffed if you keep to yourself than if you shout to Elderine that you are currently unbuffed.



wat

Stop being mean to people who post pictures of cute wolves. /frown

[Myn19]

Your posts made my day, thanks <3

-- :o --

I understand what you're trying to say, and I quite agree.

I think there is a reason as to why the buffs are only availables at level 47.
When you look at the amount of HP gain by a T1 Endure, when you're level is near T2 endure, it's becoming not worth it. What I mean is that, if you're not in the level range of the buff, it's not for you. Be it higher, or in the case of newbies who need to learn how to play, lower level.

It's like always keeping a child away from a hot oven. You are protecting him, but there is a time where you won't be there, and he'll burn his hand. In the end, the lesson thaught with the burn is more important than the constant protection. He'll know not to ever touch a hot oven ever again =)

I have no opinion about the idea of a party endure. What if someone wants to solo a boss ? They won't be able to get a buff anymore =/

Idk if you neccesarily need a buff,it usualy takes a few more levels to be able to do it even without.

I am guilty of having buffed newbies before. Because I leveled my mage, after I capped my fighter and got to see how hard it was to kill those gang imps -_-

I log on 30 mins before kq,lvl to 5,get gang imps quests,get upped to 10,get new equip and skills and pwn the imps.

But it's then that the buff takes away the meaning of party, like cookies/charms do.

It's the same for soloing bosses,the imps are an elite after all.Having a party endure and an endure that can be active only on one person at a time would be interesting though.



Ok,I've made a breakthrough with this,now I just need to:

-convince os to change mon aggro back to what it was

~There was a time when I was terrified of slow slimes lmao,they were clustered together and it took me 5-6 deaths until I figured I had to carefuly aproach them and wait for one to aggro.And it was a cleric!

+I want it because it would make more succesfull kqs,newbs are going through what I went with the bosses in mara.Bad place to make mistakes =_=,makes for better reflexes too =]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

-convince buffers to channel their good will into being a master

~I have a friend whose master is very friendly and nice from what he told me,but instead of relying on his master he asks me when he has a question.Some masters don't actualy take care of their aprientices,to them if their aprientice gets stuff every 10 lvls they did their part.Some either ignore questions or don't even say hello after accepting monarch.

+It's obvious why I'd want it,drisjr here's a way to show your love =P
It's also useful if making endure a party skill wouldn't cause an uproar upon sugestion.

Btw drisjr,if you don't mind being creepy you could follow the person,healing,invincing and curing as neccesary.A friend did it to me once,she was on an alt so i didn't know it was her.I remember asking wth?!lol

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

-convince os to make pvp an actual feature,with rewards and drawbacks

prequisite(met):convince people pking isn't a sin
prequisite 2:get people to care enough to demand it

+I want it because pvp will become important enough to make it sc-less




EDIT:Have no fear!I will comment on your posts guys.I've had a blast thinking on my response XDD,I haven't giggled so much on the forums before.

[Myn19]

That's all they need to learn. That low HP needs to be restored, and high HP means you're ready to fight.

>>.....you're one of them :eek:
What happened to putting hp/sp stones on quickslot for easy acces in emergency situations,when to use a stone so you don't waste or use too late,how many hits you can take before death and the ratio of hp stone/pot to be used calculation?(When you're tanking you really need to be prepared)

What they use to restore their HP is of little concern. When the time comes, they'll utilize what they have available to them. Really, I'd argue that 0 exp loss at earlier levels is far more detrimental than an hour long Endure. Endure spaces out stone usage by making them require fewer stones to kill something, but still enforces the idea that you cannot kill forever without healing yourself. 0 exp loss teaches them dying has no consequences.

But they don't need to use a a pot or stone,all they need is shroom:confused:
Oh,now you're talking about the difference between 20+ and -20 chars.

That's all well and good, but that wasn't my point.


Probably because we're sent an unending stream of mixed signals. "YOU BUFFED ME! BAD CLERIC!" "BUFF ME YOU STUPID CLERIC!" "HEAL PLZZZZ!" "I'M A PURIST AND I NEED NO HEALS!"

Blue:If you had a thing called observation you'd notice that there are clerics that love buffing,clerics that will make fun of you for it,clerics that despise you for asking and clerics that have personal rules for it.It's only fair that we get to do the same.

Orange:There was a point?:D Other than trying to say I'm ridiculous?

I've already commented on the ridiculousness of comparing Endure to drugs. If you want me to be more in depth, just say so.

That's a fun term I use to describe people that beg,cuss,harass and basicly do everything in their power to get a cleric to buff them.
If that isn't desperate enough for something uneccesary to be called that ok.And then there's the addictiveness,why would they do that otherwise?o.0....If you want to discuss it in more detail feel free,but this thread isn't about drugs.

Because they totally can't just keep recasting it on themselves. :rolleyes:

You're right!Why didn't I see it before?They do it for the fuzzy feeling,buffing idle people actualy makes sense now that I think about it.Technicaly the people could move anytime so they still get the fuzzy feeling and they don't get *swarmed*,then again why would they hate that.....nvm,probably a weird buffer thing *shrugg*
Hey!I know why they don't buff in fields but towns!They want an audience to see them doing their *good deeds*,suddenly buffing idle and not moving people makes a little more sense too,after all you draw more apreciation for doing a thankless job ^^b


I want some consistency is all. "Buffs = Bad," and "Buffs are acceptable unless you buff me at the wrong time," are two very different arguments and looks more to me like the OP was grasping at straws.

I understand,too much diversity for you,allow me to apologise for both of us.

I don't know what you're talking about concerning vendettas

Some buffs are worse than others too. Higher level buffs cannot be overridden by basic Endure[1]. This is especially troublesome when the buff spammer attacks 40-50 minutes before a King’s Quest. The player cannot get a rebuff prior to the KQ easily and frequently goes into the KQ with a stale buff which runs out early. Adding insult to injury, some paladins have been known to use this attack deliberately.

Sychosis response to above^

Were you NOT just arguing "buffs are bad, mmmkay?" What does it matter if it expires?


If you had seen past your misconceptions you would’ve seen that the op made a point on how inoportune random buffing can be even to people who do like them.It seems you think he can’t think past: “all buffs are bad,period!”
When really you couldn’t see past your own prejudice the moment you heard he doesn’t like buffs.

. Pika's assessment of you coming across as some backwards psychoanalyst is strangely spot on.

I do hope you aren't a psychoanalyst, working as a profession somewhere along that line, or are considering to work as one, because if you did, the perfectly sane people would end up in the mental hospital while those that aren't are free to roam around.

You mean it wasn’t a compliment?D: I thought he meant I’m so skilled I could make a snake seem fluffy and cute and a rabbit bloodthirsty and scary.I mean,imagine how many people I would need to fool for that.

What a cute wolf <3.

Well there goes the theory that he’s agreed to be my minion as long as he remains free ._.

My point is you're less likely to be buffed if you keep to yourself than if you shout to Elderine that you are currently unbuffed.

I see,I'm sorry for your loss(common sense)

wat

You think you’re doing something very funny and that people appreciate you for it.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c194/SaukaKumagae/anime%20pics/Bleach/10936902.gif





You know the drill^


Ok,I can't hold it in anymore:GYAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[pikafanisvocal]

You know the drill^


Ok,I can't hold it in anymore:GYAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I disapprove of your rebuttal because you did not post any cute animals.

Try again, but with a cute animal this time.

[Myn19]

I disapprove of your rebuttal because you did not post any cute animals.

Try again, but with a cute animal this time.

Here -->http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p6/XXBreakDance__/Tiny%20stuff/gift_bear.png

Are you traumatised or something? o.- Are you that scared to really post lmao?

[pikafanisvocal]

Here -->http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p6/XXBreakDance__/Tiny%20stuff/gift_bear.png

Are you traumatised or something? o.- Are you that scared to really post lmao?

Like I said, hopefully you aren't in the psychiatric circles.

It's not uncommon to find people who have a weakness for cute things and critters.

That's cute, but not cute enough. More, please.

[Myn19]

Like I said, hopefully you aren't in the psychiatric circles.

It's not uncommon to find people who have a weakness for cute things and critters.

That's cute, but not cute enough. More, please.

Ooooh,you want to derail the thread,I almost fell for it,gj

[pikafanisvocal]

Ooooh,you want to derail the thread,I almost fell for it,gj

Actually, if it means I have pictures of cute animals to "kawaiii desuuu" to, I don't mind derailing the thread, so you are only partially right.

You assume that:

pikafanisvocal wants to derail the thread

Therefore, he is asking for pictures of cute animals.

However, it is the other way round:

pikafanisvocal wants pictures of cute animals

Therefore, he derails the thread.
--------------------------------

As you can see, it is two really different things.

[Aeriex]

Wow. Are you REALLY whining about being buffed?
Coming from a cleric: stfu and be grateful, I hope no one on your server buffs you, ever. This is so pointless.

[autarchaurzel]

just to show you how much of an *** you are i'm going to respond soundly and logically, not to mention rationally to your entire post, enjoy

Some of my friends have been developing tactics and strategies that go beyond the basic game play. One of these strategies is to use buffs for purposes other than simply increasing a stat or stats. The problem is, there are a lot of buff spammers who randomly, arbitrarily and without consultation, modify the buff status of others.

there is no 'hidden strategy' to buffs, clerics buff out of the goodness of their hearts because they want to help people and make their time in game more enjoyable

Why would anyone not want a buff? To many players, buffs are unqualified benefits which increase the power of the player. But there are several circumstances in which they interfere with the player's game experience and impose a distortion to it. One example of this is buffs on level 1 characters.

A friend related the story to me about how she had created a new character and while still doing the baby-steps quest, got an endure[2] buff. Her first thought was that she had been killed, as her HP bar graph went from 100% to nothing in a flash. But this is an experience player so she soon realized what had happened, the HP had remained constant at 10 but the bar when from 10 to 500. Her next reaction was annoyance. How long would she have to sit in her house waiting for the bars to fill? The buff spammer had interfered with the player’s schedule. Actually she didn't wait for the bars to fully charge and only waited a minute or so and began the series of visits to NPCs that the quests demanded. Within a minute or two she had leveled up and with level 2 came full HP and SP bars. "Great," you might say but the fact is the player could throw all caution to the wind, not worry about defense or healing stones or any such concerns. And there is the problem: instead of learning about HP management and the use of stones to avoid dying she was having an experience of easy success. The foundation upon which she would build her playing skills had been weakened. Of course she is an experienced player so the harm was minor but the point is that new players need to experience the failures along with the successes to learn the game and to enjoy the experience more fully.

buffs only last an hour, it's going to take that long for a 'true newbie' to gain a few levels at least, i doubt theyd even be able to pass lvl 6 by then, so what has the buff accomplished in terms of 'unfair advantages'? perhaps it's allowed them to take on hero slime and mushroom fighter without serious damage. so what? there are still countless hard bosses out there that need to be dealt with even at low levels such as angry wolf, king crab, gang/bored imps and sharp/bored boars, that's just to name a few, at some point before level 20 every player will have to learn how to take care of his/her character, and if not the shadow quest will do a good job of that because even with a buff you'll still be taking a hell of a beating.

Another reason people give for not wanting a buff is that they are trying to lose experience to forestall leveling up. Each 1% of experience that the player wants to lose requires dying once. Many times the player will want to erase 10-30% which means she wants to die quickly and rapidly. Getting "buffed" between one death and the next adds a lot of delay to the process and makes the playing experience much less enjoyable. Once again, the player’s schedule is changed without their consent.

buffs do not increase a character's current health, it increases a player's maximum health, a very fine distinction there. unless the player also receives a heal this will not affect the person's gameplay in the slightest, if they do receive a heal it just means the player has to wait an extra 10 seconds to die shocking to waste that much more time i know

There are some “purists” too, players who want to play the game using only their wits, developing optimized tactics for the purpose without the use of external “help.” They consider buffs to be analogous to steroids in the real world and, just as they choose to avoid steroids in real life, they choose to avoid buffs in the game life. When they receive an unsolicited buff they must choose between taking a detour to abyss or FBZ to die quickly (and lose experience in the process) or to stop what they are doing and sit for an hour while the buff wears off. Either way, their schedule is hijacked from them and they must adapt to artificial influences.

fbz doesnt cause you to lose exp therefore you can die in there quite happily and lose the buff

Besides these obvious reasons that buffs are unwanted, there are some clever players who have devised advanced uses for buff. I don't know all the detailed because these people consider them to have tactical advantages so they want to maintain secrecy around them but I do know them involve the use of buffs as timers and semaphores.

i dont see your problem here, buffs used as timers, so what? get a stopwatch and i have no idea how a buff can be used as a hidden means of communication short of one player saying to the other: when i buff myself it means i'm clanking ok and you can start attacking, or something like that (actually that's a good idea, cuts having to talk)

Clerics almost always say that they buff to help others. In their defense, it is true that most people consider a buff to be a blessing. But surprisingly, when told that random buffing doesn’t always help others, some of them get angry.

look at it this way, buffs are helpful, if you dont like it you can very easily remove it by dieing in fbz as i've already stated, further clerics get spammed for buffs at a constant rate and for someone to have the audacity to say that those buffs that are kindly being given out are unwanted it will definately provoke negative emotions

Sometimes they say “I’ll buff whoever I want to.” So much for the helping motive. Sometimes they say “I am keeping you from dying.” But good players don’t die without buffs, they do fine on their own and find it condescending and patronizing that someone else has no faith in them. The buffing skill seems to evoke a power trip in the minds of the cleric, a sort of megalomania. Or maybe it’s the kind of rationalization that a drug pusher uses when he provides drugs to his victims; listen to the calls of the addicts, “Need a buff near Shutain, pl0x.” Buffed from level 1, many players are fearful of going off the drugs.

i was new to the mmo worlds when i started fiesta, i got a buff when i was about lvl 3, i didnt understand anything about it but i happily existed without another buff for about 10 levels before i got randomly buffed again, i never asked for a buff i never expected one but was always happy when i received one, just a little story to show you random buffing is good and doesnt always affect people negatively. as for buffs giving clerics a power trip, do you think it's a power trip to realise that now you're 47+ you're gonna have hordes of people beggind and spamming you for a buff?

One fact that shoots holes in the “helping cleric” argument is the “buff density” factor. Buffs are helpful to people who are out in the field fighting mobs and doing quests, yet the vast majority of spam buffers are in the cities of Elderine and Roumen. I have lost count of the times I have been buffed while standing around for long periods in town. Maybe I’m cleaning out my inventory or maybe I’m working on an alchemy skill, yet despite such things, I’m getting buffed! Clearly this is convenient for clerics, to stay in town. I don’t know, maybe they’re bored or off their ADHD meds or something. But buffs at such times don’t really help anyone so the cleric’s true motive is unclear. They might think its harmless but a growing number of people is finding annoying.

hmmm going out into the fields (apart from the fact that clerics do do that all the time) it's easier to do it in town for these reasons:
firstly the density of players in each field compared to towns is far lower, therefore fewer people would receive a buff
secondly there are established places in each town where buffing occurs and players know they are likely to get a buff there (such as shutian in eld or the fountain in roumen)
thirdly you make it sound like people who do get a buff in town waste half of it going to their questing area, at most they'll lose 5-10 minutes of it, and that's for people who have quests in extreme places like ls2 and cp2, you still have 50 minutes of buff assisted questing, by that time you'll probably need to return to town to empty your inv and hand in quests anyway
fourthly random buffs can help in that receiving a buff can inspire a person who was bored to go level so as not to waste the good fortune s/he's been given, i speak from personal experience from both myself and friends

Some buffs are worse than others too. Higher level buffs cannot be overridden by basic Endure[1]. This is especially troublesome when the buff spammer attacks 40-50 minutes before a King’s Quest. The player cannot get a rebuff prior to the KQ easily and frequently goes into the KQ with a stale buff which runs out early. Adding insult to injury, some paladins have been known to use this attack deliberately. To get an idea of the problem for yourself, shout that you do not want a buff, “please do NOT buff me,” and see how long it takes for a malicious cleric to find you and buff you contrary to your expressed wishes.

now you're contradicting yourself, you say you dont want buffs but now you're complaining about buffs that run out before you finish the kq, you didnt want the buff in the first place and as you've stated 'good players dont need buffs to play' if the buff happened 40-50 minutes before the kq that gives you plenty of time to go kill yourself somehow (fbz?) and get another buff later on, lower tier buffs do not override higher ones simply because it would 'cause more annoyance than good, a lot more

I have heard of two drastic solutions that have been suggested: One calls for every player to have the ability to remove buffs at will, and the other calls for an option to be added that blocks buffs from being applied. Either way, control over the player’s stats and schedule gets returned to him. Unfortunately both of these require the developer to intervene. It seems unlikely that another solution can work however. For instance, asking clerics to only buff people who have expressed a desire for a buff needs the compliance of all the clerics and although most will probably cooperate, it only takes a few to make their efforts meaningless.

both options are a neat idea but superfluous as buffs are not bad or malicious or affect gameplay negatively in any way, and even if they do they can be removed easily and quickly without interference

if buffs still bother you go play a game where there are no buffs, i hear original pong works good on the no buffs front

[Ayano_Kannagi]

Your language and your spelling reminds me of my old guild Heavennhell; such a stark contrast.

[Myn19]

Actually, if it means I have pictures of cute animals to "kawaiii desuuu" to, I don't mind derailing the thread, so you are only partially right.

You assume that:

pikafanisvocal wants to derail the thread

Therefore, he is asking for pictures of cute animals.

However, it is the other way round:

pikafanisvocal wants pictures of cute animals

Therefore, he derails the thread.
--------------------------------

As you can see, it is two really different things.

<removed>
Edited image:http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz346/Myn19/GiantSpiders1.jpg

>:3....I gtg so I'll leave the op to answer to his own responses for once,but if no one responds in 3 days know that I'll be back!

[pikafanisvocal]

<removed>

>:3....I gtg so I'll leave the op to answer to his own responses for once,but if no one responds in 3 days know that I'll be back!

So cute spider <3. More please.

[ahtai]

<removed>
>:3....I gtg so I'll leave the op to answer to his own responses for once,but if no one responds in 3 days know that I'll be back!

LOL, in spider female rock. Poor male got eaten. :D

[Myn19]

LOL, in spider female rock. Poor male got eaten. :D

Actualy I was thinking more in the likes of:"Don't push"
Props to you if you know what I mean.But that's an interesting way of looking at it,he was prey from the start though.Now I'm really gonna be technology-less,where I'm going there isn't internet =_=

[Myn19]

just to show you how much of an *** you are i'm going to respond soundly and logically, not to mention rationally to your entire post, enjoy

Lol,if you're mad at my posts on the others you're taking it out on the wrong person,so far the op has been neutral enough,one post,yeah,i know,not that much to compare XD

there is no 'hidden strategy' to buffs, clerics buff out of the goodness of their hearts because they want to help people and make their time in game more enjoyable

Some of my friends have been developing tactics and strategies that go beyond the basic game play.
....................................
The problem is, there are a lot of buff spammers who randomly, arbitrarily and without consultation, modify the buff status of others.


I see,he quite clearly accused buffers of making malicious plans on how to best disrupt someone's gameplay(sarcasm,just in case)

buffs only last an hour, it's going to take that long for a 'true newbie' to gain a few levels at least, i doubt theyd even be able to pass lvl 6 by then, so what has the buff accomplished in terms of 'unfair advantages'? perhaps it's allowed them to take on hero slime and mushroom fighter without serious damage. so what? there are still countless hard bosses out there that need to be dealt with even at low levels such as angry wolf, king crab, gang/bored imps and sharp/bored boars,

To me they're just more oportunities to ask for buffs,and really not everyone quests,some ppl jump these quests quite easily by kqing and then complete them when they're 4-5 lvls above them,nothing challenging in that.And there are high lvls that ask if anyone needs help with their quests so rlly idc o.0''
The game doesn't get challenging until 20.

that's just to name a few, at some point before level 20 every player will have to learn how to take care of his/her character,

Just how long has it been since you've been in mara and gold hill?o.-
I beg to differ.

and if not the shadow quest will do a good job of that because even with a buff you'll still be taking a hell of a beating.

You're serious?I have a friend that tried 5 times and couldn't do it without a buff,I know some that go until 25ish until they actualy do the job change,now tell me that isn't sad?This never used to happen,and I am pretty sure buffs do ruin some ppls skill.(and the lack of agressive mobs)
The dungeon is exactly the same,I have np passing on any class.The only challenging one is mage,and even that's not impossible or warrants more than one try.

buffs do not increase a character's current health, it increases a player's maximum health, a very fine distinction there. unless the player also receives a heal this will not affect the person's gameplay in the slightest, if they do receive a heal it just means the player has to wait an extra 10 seconds to die shocking to waste that much more time i know

You hate being *swarmed* and yet you go on buffing sprees,you understand that buffing depends on circumstance and yet you don't asume the same of the others.You can quite easily block the buff plzer,and yet you still take offence.

fbz doesnt cause you to lose exp therefore you can die in there quite happily and lose the buff

the player’s schedule is changed without their consent.

It isn't any more okay than it is for a buff plzer to spam you until you have no other choice but block.

i dont see your problem here, buffs used as timers, so what? get a stopwatch and i have no idea how a buff can be used as a hidden means of communication short of one player saying to the other: when i buff myself it means i'm clanking ok and you can start attacking, or something like that (actually that's a good idea, cuts having to talk)

Who said he has to have a problem?o.0 He is taking detours from the subject with these kind of things =/,but I think he added them so ppl like you wouldn't become overly defensive,worked like a charm :rolleyes:

look at it this way, buffs are helpful, if you dont like it you can very easily remove it by dieing in fbz as i've already stated, further clerics get spammed for buffs at a constant rate and for someone to have the audacity to say that those buffs that are kindly being given out are unwanted it will definately provoke negative emotions

If you had a thing called observation you'd notice that there are clerics that love buffing,clerics that will make fun of you for it,clerics that despise you for asking and clerics that have personal rules for it.It's only fair that we get to do the same.

Let's not forget "kindly": "I'll buff whoever I want"

i was new to the mmo worlds when i started fiesta, i got a buff when i was about lvl 3, i didnt understand anything about it but i happily existed without another buff for about 10 levels before i got randomly buffed again, i never asked for a buff i never expected one but was always happy when i received one, just a little story to show you random buffing is good and doesnt always affect people negatively.

Good in what sense?o_o,seems pretty neutral to me,you never got one when you actually needed one,if you did great luck.Idk when he said buffs necessarily turn you into a buffaholic.
When I got one I noticed who buffed,what it did and how much it lasted,I could’ve quite easily have started asking since then.But I didn’t until I saw a couple asking once,I didn’t think I could just ask one and get for free.I’ve had clerics that either *played dead*,ignored,happily buffed and with a smile after thanks and one that buffed their friend and used resist after specifying I wanted it for me =_=’’,like it wasn’t obvious.I’ve typed full sentences before,I usually end up with:
****,where’d he/she go >>
<<

Yes,I do think buffs give some people a power trip and some more of a headache they’d care to get for it.The only reason I used to ask was because you were better with than without,and if you could get one for nothing why not when some offered so readily?
It’s the fact that a lot of the buffers don’t like being asked and that I could actually do things better without endure that made me stop asking,it’s uneccesary,and bugs both me and the buffer.

as for buffs giving clerics a power trip, do you think it's a power trip to realise that now you're 47+ you're gonna have hordes of people beggind and spamming you for a buff?

XDD,do you hear yourself?Also,you don’t seem to be versed in the fact that there are clerics that ask ppl to dance,speak in a full sentence,(when they wouldn’t know grammar if it bit them in the ***),get off hobby,face them(they don’t notice you if you’re not in front of them),specify both the person and the name of the buff otherwise they will make fun of you instead of ignoring.

hmmm going out into the fields (apart from the fact that clerics do do that all the time) it's easier to do it in town for these reasons:
firstly the density of players in each field compared to towns is far lower, therefore fewer people would receive a buff

Really it’s not like that,the majority of players in town are vendors,prod workers or afking.But I guess it’s easier for you to stay in one spot and just buff the one’s passing by.

secondly there are established places in each town where buffing occurs and players know they are likely to get a buff there (such as shutian in eld or the fountain in roumen)

I guess,I saw a cleric dancing at shutian,there were some hysterical -20s around him lol

thirdly you make it sound like people who do get a buff in town waste half of it going to their questing area, at most they'll lose 5-10 minutes of it, and that's for people who have quests in extreme places like ls2 and cp2, you still have 50 minutes of buff assisted questing, by that time you'll probably need to return to town to empty your inv and hand in quests anyway



fourthly random buffs can help in that receiving a buff can inspire a person who was bored to go level so as not to waste the good fortune s/he's been given, i speak from personal experience from both myself and friends

Not exactly,you do buff idle people more often than you’d care to admit,don’t tell me you stay there 15 mins to see if they move or not.

now you're contradicting yourself, you say you dont want buffs but now you're complaining about buffs that run out before you finish the kq, you didnt want the buff in the first place and as you've stated 'good players dont need buffs to play'

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizardbob
Some buffs are worse than others too. Higher level buffs cannot be overridden by basic Endure[1]. This is especially troublesome when the buff spammer attacks 40-50 minutes before a King’s Quest. The player cannot get a rebuff prior to the KQ easily and frequently goes into the KQ with a stale buff which runs out early. Adding insult to injury, some paladins have been known to use this attack deliberately.

Sychosis response to above^

Quote:
Originally Posted by sychosis
Were you NOT just arguing "buffs are bad, mmmkay?" What does it matter if it expires?
If you had seen past your misconceptions you would’ve seen that the op made a point on how inoportune random buffing can be even to people who do like them.It seems you think he can’t think past: “all buffs are bad,period!”
When really you couldn’t see past your own prejudice the moment you heard he doesn’t like buffs.

It's fairly amusing that all I need to do is copy and paste sometimes,it shows how much some ppls posts should actualy be paid attention to since they didn't have the courtesy to actualy read the whole thread.

if the buff happened 40-50 minutes before the kq that gives you plenty of time to go kill yourself somehow (fbz?) and get another buff later on, lower tier buffs do not override higher ones simply because it would 'cause more annoyance than good, a lot more

Because it's fair that a first tier buffer just got their endure and eagerly tried it on some peeps,some t3 comes by and rebuffs everyone,really nice :)

both options are a neat idea but superfluous as buffs are not bad or malicious or affect gameplay negatively in any way, and even if they do they can be removed easily and quickly without interference

I think they're superfluous too,I want endure to be a party skill.Would do everyone alot more good than a personal option.Lol,yes i can hear you scream in outrage >:3



if buffs still bother you go play a game where there are no buffs, i hear original pong works good on the no buffs front

No,how about you gtfo ^^.The only good thing in your post was sugesting fbz,and that's been mentioned anyway.


I'm back >:3 ^

[mehe25]

Eh, got spammed buffed a lot as a nub and I turned out pretty well....

[jjtenten]

OMG!!! never heard that someone actually complain cleric for buffing. It hard to be a cleric. When u didn't buff someone who ask for a buff , u get scold for not buffing. when u buff someone , people will also complain why u buff? Please tell us wat can we do in order to PLEASE you and those who agree.

Did u ever try to buff someone when u try to set up shop half way and then everyone in the surrounding will come and ask for buff?

Did u ever try to ignore someone when u are busy making scroll and afk and the person just whisper and scold u for not buffing?

Did u ever try to be good to do your job as a cleric to buff someone and in the end, u see such a post in the forum that really confuse you whether to buff or not?

you should understand each class have their own Job to do:

Fighter = tanker
cleric = Buff / heal / rez
Mage = dispel
Archer = poison to keep boss's health to decrease continuously

so least appreciate what is given to you and accept it with sincerity.

Try to be a cleric and you will know actually what problem we are facing.

[drigr_x]

OMG!!! never heard that someone actually complain cleric for buffing. It hard to be a cleric. When u didn't buff someone who ask for a buff , u get scold for not buffing. when u buff someone , people will also complain why u buff? Please tell us wat can we do in order to PLEASE you and those who agree.

Did u ever try to buff someone when u try to set up shop half way and then everyone in the surrounding will come and ask for buff?

Did u ever try to ignore someone when u are busy making scroll and afk and the person just whisper and scold u for not buffing?

Did u ever try to be good to do your job as a cleric to buff someone and in the end, u see such a post in the forum that really confuse you whether to buff or not?

you should understand each class have their own Job to do:

Fighter = tanker
cleric = Buff / heal / rez
Mage = dispel
Archer = poison to keep boss's health to decrease continuously

so least appreciate what is given to you and accept it with sincerity.

Try to be a cleric and you will know actually what problem we are facing.
Yeah. I don't buff anyone I don't know anymore for fear they're gonna turn around and blow up on me because they "didn't ask" for it.

[Myn19]

OMG!!! never heard that someone actually complain cleric for buffing. It hard to be a cleric. When u didn't buff someone who ask for a buff , u get scold for not buffing. when u buff someone , people will also complain why u buff? Please tell us wat can we do in order to PLEASE you and those who agree.

Did u ever try to buff someone when u try to set up shop half way and then everyone in the surrounding will come and ask for buff?

Did u ever try to ignore someone when u are busy making scroll and afk and the person just whisper and scold u for not buffing?

Did u ever try to be good to do your job as a cleric to buff someone and in the end, u see such a post in the forum that really confuse you whether to buff or not?

you should understand each class have their own Job to do:

Fighter = tanker
cleric = Buff / heal / rez
Mage = dispel
Archer = poison to keep boss's health to decrease continuously

so least appreciate what is given to you and accept it with sincerity.

Try to be a cleric and you will know actually what problem we are facing.

It may be harsh but I know exactly what you need,grow aware enough of everything so you're confident that what you know what's best,then grow a spine.

Endure situtations aren't anything new.It's the same thing when you get spammed for rev requests,heal or the likes,the only difference is that it's constant.
When you have a rev spammer and another person,do you give the spammer priority?If you had to choose between an insistent party member and the tank which would you heal?The party member may be entitled to your heals but without the tank not only one person will die.Reving one person and replacing it with another makes no sense.

If the priorities criss-crossed what would you do?Continue healing your pty member and when someone who doesn't have any lives left is asking for a rev?Risk leaving your pty meber and possibly leaving him to die in the process and yet greatly please a less important person.
Even though it may not seem right to risk a person's life for another when it's monumentaly important for one compared to the other you may make a sacrifice.If the other takes offence it's obvious they didn't deserve the consideration of actualy debating this.

If you were to have 5 ppl to rev what would you do?Quickly rev one so they don't start shouting?Panic?Throw a fit and refuse to bother anymore?Become blind to anything else?(ignore dying pty mebers or running tank)
No,you ask them to tell you lives and seconds left so that you may efficiently take care of everyone,and that's only if you're not busy with something else.You don't take instructions from them,they don't know what they want.(the only acceptable argument that can make you give someone priority over the others from the start is if they're a cleric with revive,so they may help,the only one i'm aware of at least)

I am perfectly aware what being a cleric entitles.And I do not see the benefit of endure being castable on anyone but pty members.

Endure is the most simple dilema,you owe no one nothing,as you've said it's your job in a party is to support,in a party,when someone does the damage for you and protects you from mobs.It's in your best interest in a party to use endure on everyone,because it makes your job easier.

Off-topic:Some people attack and clank mobs thinking they're *absolved* from being support,but they miss the fact that they're not designed that way,a cleric has and will always have lowest damage capability,the fact that they can get a +9 and go full str doesn't change it in the least,another class with the same build and equip will do significantly more damage.Given that they don't have good aggro keeping skills they're the backup tank to be used only when a better tank isn't available,really the clanking capabilities help alot in being a succesful support since you're most likely to be the last to die.

Ong topic:The only time it extends is in kq when it's more of a common effort than 5 ppl,because it's in your best interest to have as much help as possible all the way.

I hope you won't take the following personaly,it's an experience I've had in honeying:


It makes no sense to only heal your pty members and reply to a mad tank that it's their fault for not being in your party.Have fun having the tank revolt and making you resort to clanking.Really it wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the fact that it's almost quaranteed that the dds will get aggro quite easily.In honeying the slightest holding back from the dds may fail you the kq so that's out of the question.I've witnessed this as a side fighter so I actualy was the less involved,neither tank,healer or running dd,I got to watch the show,it's frustrating when you know this cost you the kq.




*looks up*woah,I didn't even want to respond at first and then it turned into this o.o

so where can I pick up my medal?Btw,i want it to have : "anti-social 16 year old in summer vacation,i don't have a life >=D" written on the bottom.

[pikafanisvocal]

It may be harsh but I know exactly what you need,grow aware enough of everything so you're confident that what you know what's best,then grow a spine.

Endure situtations aren't anything new.It's the same thing when you get spammed for rev requests,heal or the likes,the only difference is that it's constant.
When you have a rev spammer and another person,do you give the spammer priority?If you had to choose between an insistent party member and the tank which would you heal?The party member may be entitled to your heals but without the tank not only one person will die.Reving one person and replacing it with another makes no sense.

If the priorities criss-crossed what would you do?Continue healing your pty member and when someone who doesn't have any lives left is asking for a rev?Risk leaving your pty meber and possibly leaving him to die in the process and yet greatly please a less important person.
Even though it may not seem right to risk a person's life for another when it's monumentaly important for one compared to the other you may make a sacrifice.If the other takes offence it's obvious they didn't deserve the consideration of actualy debating this.

If you were to have 5 ppl to rev what would you do?Quickly rev one so they don't start shouting?Panic?Throw a fit and refuse to bother anymore?Become blind to anything else?(ignore dying pty mebers or running tank)
No,you ask them to tell you lives and seconds left so that you may efficiently take care of everyone,and that's only if you're not busy with something else.You don't take instructions from them,they don't know what they want.(the only acceptable argument that can make you give someone priority over the others from the start is if they're a cleric with revive,so they may help,the only one i'm aware of at least)

I am perfectly aware what being a cleric entitles.And I do not see the benefit of endure being castable on anyone but pty members.

Endure is the most simple dilema,you owe no one nothing,as you've said it's your job in a party is to support,in a party,when someone does the damage for you and protects you from mobs.It's in your best interest in a party to use endure on everyone,because it makes your job easier.

Off-topic:Some people attack and clank mobs thinking they're *absolved* from being support,but they miss the fact that they're not designed that way,a cleric has and will always have lowest damage capability,the fact that they can get a +9 and go full str doesn't change it in the least,another class with the same build and equip will do significantly more damage.Given that they don't have good aggro keeping skills they're the backup tank to be used only when a better tank isn't available,really the clanking capabilities help alot in being a succesful support since you're most likely to be the last to die.

Ong topic:The only time it extends is in kq when it's more of a common effort than 5 ppl,because it's in your best interest to have as much help as possible all the way.

I hope you won't take the following personaly,it's an experience I've had in honeying:


It makes no sense to only heal your pty members and reply to a mad tank that it's their fault for not being in your party.Have fun having the tank revolt and making you resort to clanking.Really it wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the fact that it's almost quaranteed that the dds will get aggro quite easily.In honeying the slightest holding back from the dds may fail you the kq so that's out of the question.I've witnessed this as a side fighter so I actualy was the less involved,neither tank,healer or running dd,I got to watch the show,it's frustrating when you know this cost you the kq.




*looks up*woah,I didn't even want to respond at first and then it turned into this o.o

so where can I pick up my medal?Btw,i want it to have : "anti-social 16 year old in summer vacation,i don't have a life >=D" written on the bottom.

Growing a spine has nothing to do with being irritated at people who don't appreciate being buffed, namely you. Try to take some lessons on using one's cranial capacity, and you will find that, buffs aren't significant enough to automatically make new players become dumb overnight.

So what if you don't see a need to buff anyone except party members?

Fact is you have no right to tell another person not to buff you because it is game design(aka decided by the development team) that clerics are allowed to buff anyone they see.

It's not a matter of opinion or respect anymore when people like you and the OP start giving crackpot theories about insignificant/non-existent negative socio-psychological impacts just to try and alienate clerics from taking the initiative to help out other players from the bottom of their hearts.

[Myn19]

Growing a spine has nothing to do with being irritated at people who don't appreciate being buffed, namely you.

That's adressed to her,she strikes me as the type who wouldn't know what to do in the situations presented.It isn't an insult but friendly advice,it isn't out of the goodness of their hearts when they get harassed for it.When I hear how easily influenced they are I start to understand why people think it's too much being a cleric.I was extremely nice in not saying use your brain,all of those don't take a miraculous brain capacity,I wasn't trying to show off,I deduced that she didn't know what to do in those situations since she couldn't handle something simpler.If she does know what I told her then I'd ask her not to play damsel in distress.

No,I don't apreciate being buffed unless I needed it but you won't see me scolding or yelling at a cleric because of it lmao.If you're offended because I'm not thankfull either way then I'm going to ignore that remark,you can't be serious.

Try to take some lessons on using one's cranial capacity, and you will find that, buffs aren't significant enough to automatically make new players become dumb overnight.

I think I can use it well enough since I "magicly" managed to argue my point until now.(being succesfull in convincing you is another thing)
What the **** are you talking about?I never insinuated that.If you think I'm exaggerating that much ok then,please,enlighten me,what else has made the mage want to tank,the noob fighter go lure,clerics demand they tank so they're to be left alone,griefers even harder to kill and the tankers argue over who will tank

These are: ignorance of class strengths and weaknesses,too much power too early,arogance and surplus in that order.

You may have noticed I left out the tankers,it's because I didn't know what to call it,the exact situation is like this: (worst memory regarding this)

~In Gold Hill we were at the gate before marlone and the tankers were arguing who was better,the gate opens,they're still there arguing,marlone one hits 2 people,comes further,aoes right in the middle of the people,heal!!!,and again,they finaly notice,but they're dead:REV,I start kiting and really just running around,they get reved and start following:stop running!,i had some nice scrolls on and with these idiots I was afraid I'd end up tanking at robber,without heals I wouldn't survive and I wasn't willing to risk seeing if the clerics reached me in time or not.So I was just running there wishing I had the time to type:go the other way and meet me halfway....
I don't remember if i died or not but I think I made full circle and reached the clerics that were reving or remained at gate,got an invince and started tanking.Problem solved,we reach robber,surely this time they wouldn't do the same.The gate opens,a cleric is running around yelling:Mock!
fighter1:sorry guys I can't tank, I don't have buff anymore
fighter2:*goes up to mon,snears,dies*(2-hit)
me: ........

Idk if we won or not but that was the most annoying kq I've ever had in gh.



There was a similar situation on my cleric but it didn't turn out as bad:

~This time there wasn't anyone offering to tank,I use the selection feature from the patch and switch targets every time marlone does,much less people died,but he still ran around often enough,why wouldn't a fighter snear so I could stick to one person idk
We get past that but we reach robber,I run ahead to clank and watch as he goes for an archer,I invince before the arch gets hit and yet he uses natures prot,mon goes to a cleric,I prepare to heal,the cleric gets 1hit ,wasted invince =_=,robber goes to some mage in the back,a bit of running ensues,the mage tanks for a bit and a fighter gets aggro through demoralise,he tanks okay for a min,even while getting hit for 90% of his hp,did I mention I love my +5 power on heal?
Then every fighter suddenly plays aggro ball,I now had to watch for 5 ppl like that =_='''',but we managed,kq was succesfull.


While I can make some *miracles* I can't heal,revive,invince or mock on my arch and it's ****ing frustrating that i have to rely on such morons.

So what if you don't see a need to buff anyone except party members?

Fact is you have no right to tell another person not to buff you because it is game design(aka decided by the development team) that clerics are allowed to buff anyone they see.


^^,finaly something you can't accuse me of lying about:

http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz346/Myn19/screenshot503.jpg

Notice how target object is self/friendly and on the description there is: Increase party's max Hp and max SP
It fits right?:)You can cast it on anyone but it's purpose is clear.:p


It's not a matter of opinion or respect anymore when people like you and the OP start giving crackpot theories about insignificant/non-existent negative socio-psychological impacts just to try and alienate clerics from taking the initiative to help out other players from the bottom of their hearts.


I see,what would you say if you knew all of this isn't made up?
You misinterpret the way I talk for overenthusiasm on the subject.Really I'm very mad because of the **** I've had to deal with concerning noobs,I have np reving the same demanding fighter 6 times only to have him go right into aoe the 7th time,aanking or clanking since the fighter won't,ignoring idiots who think I'm lying when I say I can't rev before 20 or buff before 47,practicly being the only cleric in kq because the rest are busy *battling* because I get my end of the deal,the kq succeeds.

I'm quite aware the fighter's just a 8 year old brat that wouldn't know gratitude if it bit him in the ***,that everyone's glaring at me when I clank because I get confused for a "battle cleric"/they think i got by mistake hence the snears and one hit kills at gh,such a person may badly influence other ppls opinion of me but they don't matter since they're as bad as the spammer for not knowing better,that it's not right to take all responsibility,weirdly enough I like the challenge.

I consider I'm patient and understanding,I don't argue over stupid things or with idiots,ig I block,on the forums I don't post on threads that don't interest me so if I argue it means I think it's important,I wouldn't bother with you if I didn't value your opinion.

I would like to clear a few things,the way you reacted to this:

I do hope you aren't a psychoanalyst, working as a profession somewhere along that line, or are considering to work as one, because if you did, the perfectly sane people would end up in the mental hospital while those that aren't are free to roam around.

:D.....:p........http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc177/Tobi-Sama/Other%20Anime/moro_laugh.gifhttp://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll286/wildanimelover220/th340625th8w5d40o41.gif

What a cute wolf <3.


and from then onward leads me to believe you think I'm a troll,the wolf meant I was laughing evily,if you want me to be I will just for fun,you won't like it,not that I admit to being the "Big Bad Wolf"(troll);the tarantula didn't actualy matter,what I wanted to say was in the text below it,my way of saying until you counter what I said you don't have any right to still say you're right.
I'm done with you,I'm not going to quote things i already mentioned or respond to jabs anymore.



Finaly decided to really post huh?^

[pikafanisvocal]

Finaly decided to really post huh?^

1) I am sorry? When you ask people to grow a spine it is pretty clear you are insinuating they are spineless. Great way to go about telling someone off for answering truthfully to you, which under any definition is having a backbone.

You don't appreciate being buffed, so keep that unappreciative attitude to yourself, and stop insulting kind people who help people.

2) Apparently you aren't capable of intelligent thought, because you are telling a grandfather story about a bad KQ experience when I am saying buffs aren't significant enough to make people dumb overnight. It must be so hard to tell the difference.

3) Oh, so you want to argue semantics in a game that has a very awkward and rudimental usage of english? Pretty much every NPC in the game has bad grammar or a very awkward usage of vocabulary.

It is much more likely to be a case improper wording than the developer's oversight to program Endure to target party members judging from precedence.

4) I am sorry? Please try that last part again, but this time in English. You DO know this is an English forum, don't you?

P.S. I like the way you reply so people find it tedious to quote.

[bigj3234]

This is by far, one of the most ridiculous posts I have ever seen.

[harequil]

Eww. I see more things like those:

"I don't need a cleric to solo the tower!"
"Our tanker doesn't need a cleric."
"Don't buff us if we don't want it."

c_c Hmm.

And (maybe off topic).. I was walking arount sea of greed today (on a fighter o.o). I saw one guy (lvl 5 fighter) running away from a boogy. His hp (guy hp, not boogy) was coming down each time boogy hit him. ;o So I killed the boogy, because I thought the guy wants to run away.. He was running T_T. And what have I seen? "Don't ks!" - I was like ROTFL. I replied: "But you were running!" (xD). "I was kiting him!!!".

Just... lol. D= I feel like a noob.

[drigr_x]

P.S. I like the way you reply so people find it tedious to quote.
Not only is it pretty much impossible to quote. Its hard to try and follow the point with all the other quots just thrown in there.

[ChildOfFire]

Hey Hey..i bet most of you guys did not read the whole OP's wall of text thoroughly. Seem to me that come from a frustrated cleric who tried to appoint to community that they should be fine without buff. Talking about sarcasm here..LOL. But weird to see how other cleric keep bashing him for that..ROFL. btw to OP..i like it..hahahahahaha

[madara_uchiha1]

Clerics are just doing their job lol, u are messed up be grateful they care enough to buff u, why does that level 1 player need to wait a minute for the hp to get to normal she could just keep doing what shes doing. Buffs dont make u super human u still need to stone and heal yourself. So in other words FAIL THREAD!

[Krusnik02]

Someone buffed my level 10 mage Iyllianae >.> and I'm like: I hope this is gone when Fiesta is back up. I don't need a buff -.=

[flashrom]

Right after reading this I asked someone once while hunting if they wanted a buff. They thought I was nuts they never turn down a buff. I have not read many posts since I first read it ( not going to spend that much time on it). But I do have a story.

Now the story. My brother called me up and told me about a KQ he was in. A fighter was tanking the boss and my brother started healing him (like any good cleric would). The fighter told my brother he needs no healer and to stop healing him. My brother complied with the request and loved watching the fighter first try to run, and then die. My brother was kinder than I would have been. I would have asked them if they need no rez along with that heal( do you want fries with that, have it your way)?

When I took my tank out yea I would tank some bosses without a cleric healing but the main reason why was the clerics didn't heal or no cleric. If you don't use the resources at hand doesn't make you a god it makes you a fool. Why spam stones and pots just to prove how buffed you are? Why get mad over a buff because it gives you a little more health and SP? I have more respect for a person that works well in a PT and can maximize what the other players bring to it than the loan wolf that steps out and tries to take everything on with no support.

[Myn19]

1) I am sorry? When you ask people to grow a spine it is pretty clear you are insinuating they are spineless. Great way to go about telling someone off for answering truthfully to you, which under any definition is having a backbone.

No,I didn't say that by mistake or not knowing what I really was saying.
I do think refusing someone doesn't take courage but backbone.I didn't even say that related to my argument,it's related to how people like her allow themselves to be coerced in doing things.
In case you haven't noticed I haven't belittled her for buffing at all in my post.Everything related to that was pretty neutral.

You don't appreciate being buffed, so keep that unappreciative attitude to yourself, and stop insulting kind people who help people.

Right right,I did mention I don't blow up in people's faces for it now didn't I?
Kind people are the one's you spam and harass for buffs that have actualy come to believe they owe it to you huh?

2) Apparently you aren't capable of intelligent thought, because you are telling a grandfather story about a bad KQ experience when I am saying buffs aren't significant enough to make people dumb overnight. It must be so hard to tell the difference.

Mmmm,yeah,what I say is pretty related so I guess you wouldn't notice but the way you interpret is very in your favor now isn't it?
Ok,I'll even quote if I have to.But only because of the opinion other people will have of me when they read your post.
You like making me seem as quite the heinous,stupid and deluded person don't you?
My response to this:

buffs aren't significant enough to make people dumb overnight.

What the **** are you talking about?I never insinuated that.

I've quite clearly mentioned all the factors that I think help newbs become noobs.(citcat's reply)
Nothing's changeable by me,not even debatable,besides this,I've already mentioned as logicaly as possible for me why I think my point is valid through common examples and naming them as apropriate.

you are telling a grandfather story about a bad KQ experience

That's to prove I'm not kidding when I say I have plenty experience with noobs and to show examples regarding why I feel so strongly about this.
I thought it would show my experiences in a more personal basis so you may understand why I think like this but it seems it only gave you something to latch onto when you can't counter another part:

If you think I'm exaggerating that much ok then,please,enlighten me,what else has made the mage want to tank,the noob fighter go lure,clerics demand they tank so they're to be left alone,griefers even harder to kill and the tankers argue over who will tank

These are: ignorance of class strengths and weaknesses,too much power too early,arogance and surplus in that order.

It's quite obvious the "grandfather story of a bad kq" was a continuation of this:
You may have noticed I left out the tankers,it's because I didn't know what to call it,the exact situation is like this: (worst memory regarding this)

3) Oh, so you want to argue semantics in a game that has a very awkward and rudimental usage of english? Pretty much every NPC in the game has bad grammar or a very awkward usage of vocabulary.



It is much more likely to be a case improper wording than the developer's oversight to program Endure to target party members judging from precedence.

This isn't a mistake when no other skill has a wrong description,quests are reknown for it.If I'm wrong and there is another please say the name and I'll take it back.Besides that there's the fact that the game is slightly different than the other versions but follows the korean version from what I've heard,I'm curious,does the korean have endure as a party skill or like ours?

4) I am sorry? Please try that last part again, but this time in English. You DO know this is an English forum, don't you?

you and the OP start giving crackpot theories about insignificant/non-existent negative socio-psychological impacts just to try and alienate clerics from taking the initiative to help out other players from the bottom of their hearts.

This is what finaly convinced me you think I'm a troll or are trying to convince others.You've answered my posts with silly remarks that's fairly reminiscent of how to best deal with a troll,not paying attention or showing any disatisfaction as to not feed the troll's need for anger or sadness from the victims.
I quote so the lazy readers may follow what's going on easier and so that you can't deny.
It doesn't take any concentration to understand that part,which leads me to believe you don't have anything to say or that you actualy weren't sugesting I'm a troll but acting like that so you could annoy me.

P.S. I like the way you reply so people find it tedious to quote.

Probably because I read the whole post before replying and link my ideas.

awwww,dare I say you're sulking?



Congratulations,you made me angry enough to reply.I can't believe how you interpret what I say sometimes.

[pikafanisvocal]

Congratulations,you made me angry enough to reply.I can't believe how you interpret what I say sometimes.

Oh? Didn't you say you wouldn't reply to me anymore?

1) Telling people to grow a spine means you are neutral. So basically, if I were call you foul-mouthed I am the most objective person in the world. Good joke.

2) You tell the people who buff you that they are spineless, and you say you don't blow up in their faces. Good joke again.

3) Sorry? Fact is, your bad KQ experience has nothing to do with buffs making players dumb overnight. Cry more about your botched KQs, but in another thread, please.

4) Lol, if you go on about the bad points of buffing low leveled people, about how they become worse at surviving and have bad attitudes, naturally it is a clear insinuation at buffs turns new fiestans dumb overnight.

5) Sorry? Buffs aren't that significant enough to cause that, to think otherwise is a severe exaggeration of the issue. Fact is, in pretty much every game, the majority of players don't understand how to play the game properly. An increase in HP quantity does not make a player automatically play his/her class wrongly, it's the lack of brains that causes it, and you are the perfect evidence that I am right.

6) Look at toughness, look at chain casting(both clerics and mages), they all have misleading and disputed description. At least bother to do some research before spewing rubbish that only emphasizes your ignorance.

7) Which part of what you say aren't crackpot theories? The part about buffing people causes mental retardation? The part where your whining about a botched KQ has a clear-cut relation to the topic? Or perhaps the part where you thought endure was meant to only be casted on your party simply because the description said so when there are clear signs of bad grammar found in other skills?

And yes, I think you are just a troll, and a very bad one at that, and I welcome to try in vain to disprove any of my abovementioned comments as "silliness"

P.S. Telling the sad bitter hard truth about how deluded you are isn't silliness. It's called being mean. Grow some spine and stop dismissing every solid fact in a pathetic bid to shield yourself from the fact you are wrong.