Apolines Debate thread.

[kathrynne]

This is Apolines debate thread.
We debate on anything from ig to irl.But its a formal respectable type of debate.

Rules
1. NO FLAMING
2. NO FLAMING
3.NO FLAMING
4. NO FLAIMNG
5. NO FLAMING

Now lets find a topic and start debating

[Hipposaur]

I am a proponent for killing baby whales.

[kij024]

...and baby pandas.

[pheonixbird]

And I helped her hide the evidence.

[GM_Nekopon]

I'll get the knife, and some duct tape.

[kathrynne]

k expand on the topic more. Like example Abortion.I believe its wrong to kill a baby after you were the one to make the decision to have unprotected sex.

So format the baby whales into that type of style then we will start debating from that.

[kij024]

Topic:

Killing baby whales, and baby pandas.
Under Animal cruelty


CASE OPEN~

[GM_Nekopon]

That'd be off-topic discussions then, wouldn't it?

[kathrynne]

I think its wrong for people to kill baby pandas and whales because what if it were you being hunted down and killed for something you contained.

[kathrynne]

i guess but it was kinda meant for apoline because we have alot of drama and this is sorta of way to have an organized way of talking things out.(but we are also allowed to talk about irl things too)

sorry for the double post

[Takimi]

As I stated in the other thread, my previous Debate thread was moved to Off-Topic by Kirei Yosei. We had a few Fiesta topics- it wasn't all non-related to Fiesta/OutSpark.

Yes, I'm still incensed that it got moved. I made specifically FOR the thinkers OF Apoline.

Take a gander. We had intelligent responses on almost any topic.

Click. This. Link. (http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117330&highlight=Debate+Thread)

[Hipposaur]

Ok fine, I'll make mine Fiesta related. I'm a proponent of killing baby werebears. They're quest mobs, and they should die!
Edit : That sounds too lame.

[GM_Nekopon]

I was joking about the killing. I love animals, especially pandas.

Anyway, I see where you're coming from. Apolinians' Debates?
I want to see this.

[Hipposaur]

Yeah, I was joking too. I don't believe in killing anything cute.
For example :

Guildy: Stella, go grind on phouches, it's way faster exp than what you're doing. -__-
Stella: Nyu! They're too cute to kill. >;o

[kathrynne]

Thanks Neko for letting it stay in apolines section. anyways lets get back on topic.

What do you guys think about animal killing for things such as fur?gimme your views!gogogogo

[kij024]

Pandas are my favorite. I continue to see more similarities between me, and Nekopon. o:

[Hipposaur]

I like Noble's panda drawings, they're simply adorable.
And animal killing?
I've killed many animals myself indirectly. I used to have a bunch of pet fish when I was little, and I never remembered to feed them. Hence, they all died. ):

[kathrynne]

haha thats not on purpose though. I mean like for uses we dont exactly need like fur coats and bamboo

[Synthetic_Sheep]

Thanks Neko for letting it stay in apolines section. anyways lets get back on topic.

What do you guys think about animal killing for things such as fur?gimme your views!gogogogo

Go out and kill your own animals, then tell me if you're for or against.

(technique of stating my opposition to killing animals D:
Hairless rats > all others D: )

[kathrynne]

Personally i hate animal killers except for the need of food.Because I first hand witnessed my dog get shot by my neighbor just because he was on there lawn.So any type of animal killing I AM AGAINST

[Hipposaur]

Well abortion is murder, murder is mean. ):
On the other hand, I wouldn't want to be the raped teenage girl stuck with a baby to care for. >.> So idk.

[Synthetic_Sheep]

Personally i hate animal killers except for the need of food.Because I first hand witnessed my dog get shot by my neighbor just because he was on there lawn.So any type of animal killing I AM AGAINST

SOY PROTEIN FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *o*

[kathrynne]

Well abortion is murder, murder is mean. ):
On the other hand, I wouldn't want to be the raped teenage girl stuck with a baby to care for. >.> So idk.

yeah if you are un able to care for the baby theres always adoption.There is no need to murder the poor baby b4 its even born.

[Hipposaur]

I still don't want to be the teenage girl that got raped and has to experience giving brith at such a young age. >.>

[kathrynne]

I still don't want to be the teenage girl that got raped and has to experience giving brith at such a young age. >.>

True but do you really wanna murder a unborn baby?I mean if you were stupid enough to have unprotected sex then you should have to deal with consquences not the unborn baby.(this does not apply to raping)

[Moxxie]

Why do ppl hate pkers?

[kathrynne]

ermm thats a bit off topic right now because the topic as of right now is abortion.Plese save that for when this debate is dying down.Heck il bring it up once this debate dies down.

[kathrynne]

awww who cares. Next Debate:your views on pkers!

[kij024]

I hate PKers, and I love to PK, but I don't hate myself.
I'm so selfish. xD


For me, I take consideration first of who to kill, and who to not. For example, the other day, I was in L40 abyss with my wife, and we saw 2 people. She was like "KEEL! KEEL! KEEEEEEEL!! GRAH!" I was "No*good boy face*" (of course, I'm exaggerating). Before we left them alone, I told them "Hi! I'm a PKer! :)"

After about 5-10 minutes, we saw them outside. Me, and Kouki were hugging each other. Then one of those two people came close to us, and said "AWWW! So cute", and we started to chit-chat, joke around, and after those, she got scared of me, LOL.

My point was, everyone is an enemy when you're inside abyss/battle zone/pvp area, BUT you should think first before you kill that person. We never know, if that person can be a potential friend, or not. I've had a lot of friends tell me "You used to PK me back then" (something like that), and I guess, that has happened to almost all of you. :P

[Hipposaur]

In my opinion, no one likes being PKed. Seriously, no one plays the game just for the fun of being PKed. 8D But PKing can be fun, just out of boredom and whatnot. ._.

[doi2in]

Join the Apoline Debate Team.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7426/debateteam.png

[kij024]

Wow o_________o;;

Sausages.

[doi2in]

Can anybody help me with my math problem? My teacher said I got it wrong.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1938/elephantu.png

[Aeriex]

Doritos, I'll give you picture drawing lessons ._.

[doi2in]

Doritos, I'll give you picture drawing lessons ._.

I think I need a physics lesson first.

[UzumakiW]

k expand on the topic more. Like example Abortion.I believe its wrong to kill a baby after you were the one to make the decision to have unprotected sex.

I believe abortion is wrong to use as a normal birth control. According to some website I read a while back, it is both a scientific and medical fact that it is still a human life.

Now, when it comes to ****, incest, or the life of the mother is in danger, then I'm not against abortion. Only when it comes to a couple didn't prevent this from happening and wants to terminate a human life for a mistake they made.

One of my favorite arguments on the opposing side is that it is the woman's body, and she deserves the right to do what she wants with it.

I'm not arguing with that, but I do argue that it is not so much the woman's body that they are dealing with, but the body of another life that they plan to terminate. Also, if you argue this, then there is no reason that a person should be against any type of illegal drug use, be it marijuana, heroin, or meth. If this is a truly valid argument, then there should be no problem with a person arguing that it is their body, and they should be able to abuse drugs all they want.

What do you guys think about animal killing for things such as fur?gimme your views!gogogogo

It all depends on the animal, and as long as the person is actually using the parts of the animal and not just doing it for sport, I can't really say if I'm for it, but I'm not really against it. That's one of those topics that is kind of hard to think on what I would really think.

Why do ppl hate pkers?

People hate PKers because PKers prevent a person from grinding and leveling up. Also, they don't like that PKers kill them and make them lose exp.

PKers don't bother me, though. I haven't had a problem with PKers since my mid 70s. After that, if someone tried PKing me, I'd usually beat them or they'd run off in the middle of the fight.

[Synthetic_Sheep]

I believe abortion is wrong to use as a normal birth control. According to some website I read a while back, it is both a scientific and medical fact that it is still a human life.

Now, when it comes to ****, incest, or the life of the mother is in danger, then I'm not against abortion. Only when it comes to a couple didn't prevent this from happening and wants to terminate a human life for a mistake they made.

One of my favorite arguments on the opposing side is that it is the woman's body, and she deserves the right to do what she wants with it.

I'm not arguing with that, but I do argue that it is not so much the woman's body that they are dealing with, but the body of another life that they plan to terminate. Also, if you argue this, then there is no reason that a person should be against any type of illegal drug use, be it marijuana, heroin, or meth. If this is a truly valid argument, then there should be no problem with a person arguing that it is their body, and they should be able to abuse drugs all they want.


Lol I agree with every word.
Also have something related, but not necassarily on target.
It makes me think of how they give out condoms like it's candy for what is not 100% safe, and they also give out clean needles to drug addicts to help them avoid disease.
If you're the one making the mistake, why is anyone else obligated to help you continue your mistakes, then, in the case of abortion, have to watch human lives be terminated because of the choice they made.
Imo, giving out those things to these people who have made their choice is positively reinforcing what they are doing. It's no way to save them.

Eh, hope that made sense, it's 3:30 am here. x3

[kathrynne]

I believe abortion is wrong to use as a normal birth control. According to some website I read a while back, it is both a scientific and medical fact that it is still a human life.

Now, when it comes to ****, incest, or the life of the mother is in danger, then I'm not against abortion. Only when it comes to a couple didn't prevent this from happening and wants to terminate a human life for a mistake they made.

One of my favorite arguments on the opposing side is that it is the woman's body, and she deserves the right to do what she wants with it.

I'm not arguing with that, but I do argue that it is not so much the woman's body that they are dealing with, but the body of another life that they plan to terminate. Also, if you argue this, then there is no reason that a person should be against any type of illegal drug use, be it marijuana, heroin, or meth. If this is a truly valid argument, then there should be no problem with a person arguing that it is their body, and they should be able to abuse drugs all they want.

I agree with that.Unless its life threatning(excuse my spelling,im the worst speller ever)cant you just have the baby and give it up for adoption,IF you cant or wont take care of him/her.

[kij024]

I agree with everyone's thought about abortion, BUT in reality, there are many other points to be discussed. For example, a teen-age couple around 16, who both live in a suburban area, who also just survive every pay check they get from working in McDonalds(or any fastfood). These couple both don't have parents to support them. They live on their own. They go to school every weekdays, and work every single night. They have to pay bills too, like water, electricity, rent for the house, and etc.

One night, guy just got home from work. Guy's girlfriend obviously welcomes him home with hugs, and kisses. Girlfriend was all alone in the house all day, she missed her bf so badly. She thought that he needs lovings. Then they got it on ...

After 2-3 months, girl found out, that she's pregnant. She panicked, she don't know what to do. On her mind, she's thinking "Should I tell him?", "What's gonna happen to us?", "But we used protection!", "Will he leave me because of this?", and etc.

My point is, real life situations like this happen. Not only here, in America, but throughout the whole world. Yes, it is life, BUT what life can this couple(above) give to their child? Can they even make it through the day? Can they provide the basic needs like shelter, food, and clothes? With a couple, that only survives through each very low pay check every month. Yes, there are government support out there, but not all people are educated about it. The government doesn't offer those, they hide the support from the people. Even, if you know about it, it is not guaranteed, that you'll be granted. Specially, with the economy now.

[kathrynne]

Very true Noble but my point is if push comes to shove then there is always ADOPTION. I mean if they cant care for it doesnt mean they hav to kill the baby,they can just get through the pregancy(excuse my spelling again) have the baby and give it up for adoption.

[kij024]

I didn't say they have to kill the baby. That is true, they can sell the baby(LOL), or put it in an orphanage, or something.

[kathrynne]

haha ok so we sorta reached an agreement.What do you guys want for the next topic?

[kij024]

Just a suggestion, you can change topic once a day, yeah?

It's still early in the morning, lol x:
Not everyone is awake~

[Synthetic_Sheep]

I agree with everyone's thought about abortion, BUT in reality, there are many other points to be discussed. For example, a teen-age couple around 16, who both live in a suburban area, who also just survive every pay check they get from working in McDonalds(or any fastfood). These couple both don't have parents to support them. They live on their own. They go to school every weekdays, and work every single night. They have to pay bills too, like water, electricity, rent for the house, and etc.

One night, guy just got home from work. Guy's girlfriend obviously welcomes him home with hugs, and kisses. Girlfriend was all alone in the house all day, she missed her bf so badly. She thought that he needs lovings. Then they got it on ...

After 2-3 months, girl found out, that she's pregnant. She panicked, she don't know what to do. On her mind, she's thinking "Should I tell him?", "What's gonna happen to us?", "But we used protection!", "Will he leave me because of this?", and etc.

My point is, real life situations like this happen. Not only here, in America, but throughout the whole world. Yes, it is life, BUT what life can this couple(above) give to their child? Can they even make it through the day? Can they provide the basic needs like shelter, food, and clothes? With a couple, that only survives through each very low pay check every month. Yes, there are government support out there, but not all people are educated about it. The government doesn't offer those, they hide the support from the people. Even, if you know about it, it is not guaranteed, that you'll be granted. Specially, with the economy now.

There's no extremist position anyone can stay true to without denying, or just not caring about, real-world situations.

Again this is also a little off the abortion topic, but I like what Noble brought up.
In relation to the governmental support, there are those parents who honestly just don't try to be parents or even a working citizen and burn our taxes through governmental support, while sometimes even getting jobs handed to them. I knew a woman like this, she did not parent her children, she was unfit, and relies on the government to hand her everything just because she has kids (one of which who became pregnant at 14, and I'm betting will follow suit in providing the least quality life for her child).
So I guess adoption should be considered as alternative to abortion (sounds like the humane and logical way to go, no?), but you have to educate yourself on the facts of childen in foster homes and those who've fallen into homelessness. They're not that well off. Not to mention if a mother or a father was "ill" in any sense as to endanger either the mother's or he baby's life during childbirth.
So is it society's decision as to whether or not a mother is allowed to keep, send to foster care, or abort a child? We all come from many different beliefs, lifestyles, backgrounds, situations, that it's impossible to say yes, in my opinion. It seems much like imposing a "collective" lifestyle and thought-process on a family -- all the while promoting diversity of lifestyle and opinion.

I doubt debating something like abortion will influence a law to the point of completely endorsing or completely opposing it considering how wide these possiblities and real-world situations range. I also doubt anyone believes that abortion is "good", even though severeal of those who oppose abortion claim that pro-choice individuals view it as "good".

[kij024]

[reserved]
I'm in tower of izyel D':

[kathrynne]

@noble okay,yeah thats a good idea we will change topic everyday.i guess we should change it each day at 12:00 os time.

@xDark The government should try to keep a watch on parents that have low income or some issue that makes it hard to correctly parent there child.And if they see that a child has an unsanitary living space,not much to eat,etc they can swoop the child/children to foster care.

[Synthetic_Sheep]

@noble okay,yeah thats a good idea we will change topic everyday.i guess we should change it each day at 12:00 os time.

@xDark The government should try to keep a watch on parents that have low income or some issue that makes it hard to correctly parent there child.And if they see that a child has an unsanitary living space,not much to eat,etc they can swoop the child/children to foster care.

Yeah. But the woman I was describing for one example could be a mother, it wasn't the fact that she just had an issue keeping her from being a better parent. She was just one of those unfit parents that I don't want my tax money going to to help support her. She even told her 19 year old son to not get a job like he wanted to help pay the bills. Her children take her money and her car, and she does nothing about it but curse, go out with friends, then go get a man to keep her warm for the night.

I guess what I was getting at is these types of parents who simply won't raise their children need to take an alternate course -> adoption. But many just choose abortion (if not keep their kids like the woman I described above) since it seems easier, which imo is seriously messed up and shows no love for their own children.
Many women who go get this done are not told about the emotional feeling they get afterwards, maybe because they know deep down they chose to end a human life without substantial reason when adoption was the more humane way to go.
I have a difficulty placing my opinion on this topic, since it goes back and forth with every situation. lol.

edit : It just comes down as to the mother's real intent.
Taking the easy way out? Or making the best decision she can for the better of her and her child's life?

[kathrynne]

Yeah. But the woman I was describing for one example could be a mother, it wasn't the fact that she just had an issue keeping her from being a better parent. She was just one of those unfit parents that I don't want my tax money going to to help support her. She even told her 19 year old son to not get a job like he wanted to help pay the bills. Her children take her money and her car, and she does nothing about it but curse, go out with friends, then go get a man to keep her warm for the night.

I guess what I was getting at is these types of parents who simply won't raise their children need to take an alternate course -> adoption. But many just choose abortion since it seems easier, which imo is seriously messed up.
Many women who go get this done are not told about the emotional feeling they get afterwards, maybe because they know deep down they chose to end a human life without substantial reason when adoption was the more humane way to go.
I have a difficulty placing my opinion on this topic, since it goes back and forth with every situation. lol.


yeah it mainly depends on what the situation is. But i think its inhumane to end a humans life.So my point is if they are unfit to parent then have the baby and give it up for adoption. And the woman you are talking about is just unhelpable(if thats a word) because she should have the right mind to give the children there basic needs!If shes unfit to parent then she needs to realize it and give them up for adoption.

[Synthetic_Sheep]

yeah it mainly depends on what the situation is. But i think its inhumane to end a humans life.So my point is if they are unfit to parent then have the baby and give it up for adoption. And the woman you are talking about is just unhelpable(if thats a word) because she should have the right mind to give the children there basic needs!If shes unfit to parent then she needs to realize it and give them up for adoption.

lol ikr.

50 million characters.

[kij024]

Sounds like Octo-mom.

[kathrynne]

xD yeah that is outrageous what "octo mom" did she should not have had 8 kids.I read up on her not to long ago and she stated it was a wrong choice.And that she made a mistake having 8 kid.It was stupid of her and now shes paying the price.

[Synthetic_Sheep]

Omg I couldn't believe it when I saw that on the news, I'd so die...:eek:

[aerick.]

yeah ikr i hope shes emebarrassed about that pathetic attempt to get attention.

[kij024]

Not only attention, she gets paid well from her own show. ;P

[aerick.]

yeah true.I think its really stupid.All of it the 8 babies and her show.Anyways we need a new topic.About something IG

[kathrynne]

hmmmm,what do you guys suggest as the next topic?

[Synthetic_Sheep]

OMG. -sees the light-
Is that that Dave and Kate Plus 8 show?
Whatever it's called. Obviously I don't watch tv unless it's America's Got Talent lmfao. GO HAIROOOOOOOOOOOO! <3

I don't know about a next topic, but I think they should run till their time has run it's course, instead of putting a deadline on getting your thoughts posted in this thread. x3 Once the thread goes in circles or just stops, start a new one?

[kij024]

I suggest "views on online flaming".

[kathrynne]

okay lts settled:Next Topic IS Views On Online Flaming

[RikoRain]

There already was a debate thread, and that debate thread was purposefully made JUST for Apolonians.

Unfortunately the CLs at that time decided it was "spam" and moved it around. -_-'''

And, if this is debate, why is everyone just chit chatting? Dx Its like the "Apology thread" everyones just chatting. >.> I think I preferred it when everyone just spammed the "post to a million" thread.

Ah here it is
http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117330&highlight=debate+thread
As you can see, we had some PRETTY DARN GOOD debates going on there. REALLY good themes.

And.
Uh you know.
Making the debate topic "your view on flames" is asking for flames... just fyi. Youre gonna get flamed.

[kij024]

OHNOES! Flames! Ahh! *hides self*

[RikoRain]

I don't know about a next topic, but I think they should run till their time has run it's course, instead of putting a deadline on getting your thoughts posted in this thread. x3 Once the thread goes in circles or just stops, start a new one?

Last debate thread was awesome. There was this one post, somewhere on the first page, that one person updated with every topic we went on. Anyone could reply to any topic, and each topic stayed open, but once people had to repeat their view on it, thats when we decided it was new topic time.

(replying cus I just now bothered to read all the spam, I mean, posts, before this xD)
Ehhhhh some time im gonna weed through and p ull up th eold topiucs

[kathrynne]

oops sorry dark i didnt see your post.Yeah i agree with it.Sorry xD jus trying to keep it organized.Well back on its course of abortion/octo mom.

[kangawoo]

Flaming? o.o Well I suppose that depends what view you look at it from, obviously, whoever is getting flamed is gonna get a little emarrassed, but when you look from the flamer's point of view it's kinda fun, because usually they don't mean it in the way it's percieved. (Muahaha big secksi science words) I think it's probably ok if it's kept to a jokey limit, but actual flaming is just plain stupid Dx

[xXxflame139xXx]

OHNOES! Flames! Ahh! *hides self*

xXxFLAME139xXx ;]

[kij024]

I agree with Jarmun.

[kathrynne]

Well i think flaming is okay.Because in no world will you find that every single person will get along.And thats why we see all the drama forming.I see some people complaining about drama but in what perfect sanctuary do you live?Every place is gonna have some drama because every1 will NOT agree and will try to get there point across to every1 else.

[seirou]

Flaming isn't "not getting along", it's people hurling pointless insults at each other because they're protected by their little screen.

It's also hilarious to watch people get frustrated with each other over nothing at all.

[kathrynne]

I beg to differ flaming is form of people not getting along.And its just peoples statements about what they believe,which may offend others(but i mean really who gets offended over a computer screen by an insult)but they have that right to state there opinion.

[RikoRain]

Ehhh so many people throw the word "flaming" around, but if you look it up, the definition is something along the lines of 'replying to something with the intent of starting a fight'. So the whole thing there is intent. They could be posting with the intent to joke and make people laugh and have a lil fun, but its not flaming til they do it to cause a fight. You can kinda tell in the response what their intent is, even if they try to be sly.

And with flaming there is trolling. Course trolling again is replying to one set group or person, or following a person from thread to thread with the intent of harassing them / all persons involved.

._. Either way. Both are annoying.
I dont think theres very much to "debate" about flaming and trolling. They are pretty set in what they are, and its pretty obvious no one likes them. Also, I believe its in the TOS youre not to do it here, so theres no much to debate.

[Aeriex]

^ Yes ma'am, Riko's got it.

[Takimi]

Last debate thread was awesome. There was this one post, somewhere on the first page, that one person updated with every topic we went on. Anyone could reply to any topic, and each topic stayed open, but once people had to repeat their view on it, thats when we decided it was new topic time.

(replying cus I just now bothered to read all the spam, I mean, posts, before this xD)
Ehhhhh some time im gonna weed through and p ull up th eold topiucs

See my signature Kaity. That's where you'll find the REAL debate thread.

[Synthetic_Sheep]

Ehhh so many people throw the word "flaming" around, but if you look it up, the definition is something along the lines of 'replying to something with the intent of starting a fight'. So the whole thing there is intent. They could be posting with the intent to joke and make people laugh and have a lil fun, but its not flaming til they do it to cause a fight. You can kinda tell in the response what their intent is, even if they try to be sly.

And with flaming there is trolling. Course trolling again is replying to one set group or person, or following a person from thread to thread with the intent of harassing them / all persons involved.

._. Either way. Both are annoying.
I dont think theres very much to "debate" about flaming and trolling. They are pretty set in what they are, and its pretty obvious no one likes them. Also, I believe its in the TOS youre not to do it here, so theres no much to debate.


(I used so many "rijrijrigj"'s @____@)

I agree, but I also think that people have to just be careful in how they state it. Nothing is just black or white. If the person "play flaming" is not friends with or is even enemies with the flamed person, even if he is joking he knows his "joke" will be taken to a more serious meaning, and in that case it's obvious the "play flamer" is trying to rouse trouble to make the other person look bad publicly. You see this waay too often.
If the person is in deed joking, they could try posting in a white font that it was a joke, so as to not ruin the fun of the comment he made, but also make it clear his intent so others know how to reply.
However, if an enemy of one person "play flames" them, and says so that they were not serious, considering that the "flamed" knows the dynamic of their relationship, he will KNOW if he is in fact getting flamed or simply being joked at. It's up to the "flamer" to ultimately show the understanding and maturity if his "joke" was taken seriously.
What people forget is if you say something provoking, and don't indicate a "joke", there will be hell to pay. When flamed, you always see the ones flamed replying usually with "please stop", and eventually fighting back. It's just a form of self-defense and is morally justified imo if the flamer does not stop (although probably not in OS's eyes, because it won't solve the issue).

edit : Just to make that last statement clear, I don't think constant flaming back and forth is all well and good. I mean if someone defends himself, they don't look bad in my eyes simply for defending (unless they "defend" themselves in a horrid manner.) But replying in that way usually won't solve the issue, and on these forums, OS does not like it since we're supposed to be flame-free.

[kathrynne]

@ Takimi I think it is rude how you are stating this is not the "real" debate thread.Its just as real as your thread that may i add is in the OFF topic discussion,when ours is simply still in the Apoline section even after its been viewed by a gm.

[RikoRain]

Kathrynne, i think you need to take a chill pill or youre seriously gonna start drama and then this thread WILL be closed (not a threat, but saying, every time someone starts drama in a thread, a CL will most likely close it).

Youre SUPPOSED to search to see if previous threads were made before making a thread like this. There were threads like this made before. Several. Dont get all snippy when people start pointing it out. If youre gonna make a thread for debating, and then be rude like that and try to control people in a area youre trying ot make free for speech and debate.. then maybe someone should ask a CL to close this thread before it gets out of hand.

[kathrynne]

so its rude and snippy to tell Takimi to stop acting like my thread is not the real debated thread?And Do you see any debate thread in apolines section that if i posted there i wouldnt be necroing?

[Takimi]

I'll tell you why I said that.

1) Your only parameter is "no flaming."
2) You do not emphasize expansion of thinking or explanation. The first 5 pages are practically 2 sentence replies.
3) You present no opening topic to challenge the readers to reply with their own, THOUGHT-OUT opinions which really can't be backed up in any way.
4) There's no room for extended discussion- You acquire about 3-4 replies then demand subject change.

In all honestly, it's basically "Hi, I don't like this, next topic." You can't call it a debate thread when there is no real "debating."

[Hipposaur]

I agree with everything stated in Riko and Taki's post, even after semi-participating in the thread. I'm sure that if the CL or whoever understood the meanings and intentions of Taki's old thread, it wouldn't have been moved. And after looking at it, it kind of looks like, idk, an actual debate, rather than, like what was stated previously, 2 liner posts. I'm starting to agree with Riko that everyone shoud just go spam the post to 1mil.

[renzo23]

And the drama begins.... GO!

[ShonenHero]

I agree with everything stated in Riko and Taki's post, even after semi-participating in the thread. I'm sure that if the CL or whoever understood the meanings and intentions of Taki's old thread, it wouldn't have been moved. And after looking at it, it kind of looks like, idk, an actual debate, rather than, like what was stated previously, 2 liner posts. I'm starting to agree with Riko that everyone shoud just go spam the post to 1mil.

However, that is not the OP`s fault, and she doesn`t deserve to have the thread shot down

What changed, is not the thread. A thread is nothing, a thread is a set of responses. What changed is the people, who are more into getting one more post in their count than into saying things with meaning

Stell, your first post in this thread is about killing baby whales

[Hipposaur]

Mhmmm I know, so by saying that, I'm shooting down my own replies. And how I shouldn't of posted in the first place cause I'm not one for heavy thinking. The two liner replies were also referring to my posts. So I guess what I should have said was sorry for a bad first post on a thread that could've went down a better trail, and idk why I'm still even here...@_@

[kij024]

Does this "official, and unofficial thread" really matter?
Let's just move on, yeah?

[RikoRain]

Actually I dont think it was ever about official and nonofficial. In fact, the person to bring that up, was the OP herself. No one else mentioned it. You wanna try to claim Taki did, but its on that thread, it says "Official debate thread". That is its name.

And xDark, tbh, though your replies seem short, they contain alot of information. I think what they were referring to were all those dang spam posts where people were all "omg love this thread" and then nothing else.

Anyway, maybe we should just debate on whether this is a real debate thread.
After all, all the OP has done is come in and get angry at people replying. I dont know, I sort of think you know, the ringleader of a "debate" thread should be able to understand that debating is mostly to open peoples eyes to other points of views. Not replying back in anger.

Plus, idk, when I read some debate, or a debate thread, I personally think higher of the person if they actually type with like, caps, good grammar, punctuation, etc.

Theres a topic right there.
I bet no one will use it tho.
Everyone will reply back either spamming, flamming, or agreeing with someone else who flamed. After all, it wasnt a very good idea to bring up a topic about flaming. Dx I said it before, its just gonna get you flamed.

[piepiepiepie]

Plus, idk, when I read some debate, or a debate thread, I personally think higher of the person if they actually type with like, caps, good grammar, punctuation, etc.
lol Kai. What is there to debate? These threads have explicit rules stating that you must speak English on them. Therefore something like this "I am l337 and very epic fear my mad skills I p4wn 411 ch00 n00bs" Is not even English but rather an entirely different language.

[Takimi]

A Debate thread, official or not, has fundamental rules to be successful.

1) No flaming
2) No disrespect to any posters
3) Well thought-out replies with facts to back it up.
4) Picking a view point and staying with it.
5) Keep your mind open to OTHER point of views that do not necessarily comply with your own.

Example 1:
"I think killing baby whales is bad."You cannot simply state: "I think killing baby whales is bad." Well, you could, but where is the proof that you stand on it? What makes you BELIEVE that?

Example 2:
"I believe killing baby whales is wasteful and detrimental to the survival of the species. Currently, the Blue Whale, for example is on the endangered species list.
From www,earthsendangered,com, "Over 350,000 whales have been hunted and killed, and by the 1960s, blue whales were on the edge of extinction. There are probably only around 2500 blue whales left in the oceans and they are now legally protected despite opposition by the whaling industry. Lawful killing of Blue Whales should not be allowed because so little are left. Even poaching must be handled with severe consequences. The loss of even one more species of animal on this planet is a dear cost."

That, although short for me, is a well-thought out reply to the topic. It provides factual evidence to back up what you believe.

Furthermore: topics such as "Flaming" are not received well. The ONLY viewpoint that is accepted by moderators is "flaming is unacceptable." Therefore, not more than one view point can be represented. Thus, the topic cannot be debated.

I hope this helped provide 2 examples of a proper Debate Thread reply. The entire reply itself and Example 2.

-Takimi

[renzo23]

So much for freedom of speech. ;O;

[Jsonthegreat]

I wear a whaleskinned suit to work. It helps me feel good inside.

[Eliasj]

Does this "official, and unofficial thread" really matter?
Let's just move on, yeah?

Im sorry Noble, I think you are great, and Im gonna let you finish but, TAKIS THREAD was the BEST debate thread of ALL TIME, THE best debate thread of ALL TIME.

[generaldave]

Baby whales should definitely not be killed.

[renzo23]

Im sorry Noble, I think you are great, and Im gonna let you finish but, TAKIS THREAD was the BEST debate thread of ALL TIME, THE best debate thread of ALL TIME.

Elias has a Kanye in him.

[UzumakiW]

Im sorry Noble, I think you are great, and Im gonna let you finish but, TAKIS THREAD was the BEST debate thread of ALL TIME, THE best debate thread of ALL TIME.

Lmao.

Anyway, since I just see no real debate going on and stuff, I thought I might as well post up a new topic, and here it is (please excuse the long intro ahead, I like writing fun intro ;) )

On January 24, 1989, Ted Bundy was executed in the electric chair for the murders of at least 30 people. On May 10, 1994, John Wayne Gacy was executed by lethal injection for the murder of 33 boys and young men. On October 9, 2002, Aileen Wuornos was put to death by lethal injection for the murders of 7 men.

Right now, people like Richard Ramirez and John Allen Muhammad are awaiting death for the crimes they have committed in murdering other people.

On June 12, 1978, David Berkowitz, aka Son of Sam, was sentenced to six life sentences for the murder of 6 and attempted murder of 7. In the time he's been in jail, Berkowitz has become a born again Christian. He has refused parole on numerous occasions, stating that he deserves to be in prison for the rest of his life. He is involved with the prison ministry and counsels troubled inmates. He sued his attorney, claiming that his attorney took his personal belongings to publish a book of his own. They settled out of court with his former attorney agreeing to donate part of the profits to the New York State Crime Victims Board to go to the families of the victims he murdered and injured. In 2006, before her death, the mother of one of the victims wrote Berkowitz saying she forgave him for his crimes. He plans on writing a memoir, in which he will not receive any money for, and all the money will go to the families of the victims he murdered and injured.

So, what's the point of this?

Berkowitz has been in jail for over 30 years. The three mentioned above who were put to death were in jail less then or a few years over ten years. In the over 30 years Berkowitz has been in jail, we have seen that he has changed quite a bit into a decent person, however, the three above haven't had as long to be able to do this.

So, the question is, should we as a society (or any society that has the death penalty legalized) still have the death penalty as a possible conviction for anyone? Why or why not?

Discuss~

[hikouq]

No because DNA evidence has proved so many people were innocent who were executed.
With the death penalty, there is no going back and pardoning someone, its too late then. People act like prison is this big fun place. Its a living hell, so murderers who get life in prison are suffering no matter what. Theres no need for the death penalty. As a deterrent for crime, it obviously doesn't work. Does Texas have lower crime rates than states without the death penalty? No



Here, I just did some math based on the following things:
There's around 37 executions per year.

The Wikipedia article below says:
"Newly-available DNA evidence has allowed the exoneration and release of more than 15 death row inmates since 1992 in the United States, but DNA evidence is available in only a fraction of capital cases."

So at the very least, 15 were definitely innocent. So since 1992, theres been around 592 executions.
15 out of 592 is about 2.5%. Thats a pretty high percentage of people who were definitely innocent.

Now the wikipedia article even goes further by saying:
"At least 39 executions are claimed to have been carried out in the U.S. in the face of evidence of innocence or serious doubt about guilt."
So 39 cases with either evidence or serious doubt about guilt, plus 15 (at least) definite innocence cases, equals 54.
So out of 592 executions, around 9% were probably innocent. Even 1 life is too much of a loss to continue this, but with that high of a percentage, its pretty shocking.


"Anyone who is sentenced to death should have one appeal to convince a judge that the sentence is not justified"
Put someones entire life in the hands of one man? Who's to say that judge doesnt make a mistake? Hes human after all, and things like prejudice towards religion, or racism, are still in the hearts of many judges since they are human.




"When DNA is done properly, then it is quite accurate."

From Wikipedia:
"but DNA evidence is available in only a fraction of capital cases."
There isn't DNA in every case, in fact, only a small percentage of cases have DNA as evidence to use.

With 40 years, they suffer every day (and those who are innocent have more time to plead their case and wait for new evidence or testimonies to turn up). With an execution, they suffer only up until the execution. They can no longer think about what they did. After that they no longer suffer. I'd rather be executed then spend 40 years in prison.

The bible has nothing to do with state laws so it shouldnt even be taken into consideration what the Bible says. We have the first amendment, freedom of religion and freedom from persecution. When you do things to people because of what your religion teaches, thats persecution, because they may not be the same religion. Thomas Jefferson must have known there would be people like you who would still try to push religion into our laws, so he purposely went out of his way to make it even more clear and wrote an entire letter called The Wall of Separation Letter further explaining how we are supposed to separate our religion from our laws and the two should not mix.

But if you want to bring up your religion, in fact, the bible stresses "forgiveness" more than it does "eye for an eye".

[kij024]

Im sorry Noble, I think you are great, and Im gonna let you finish but, TAKIS THREAD was the BEST debate thread of ALL TIME, THE best debate thread of ALL TIME.

If you could see that I'm the one who understands you. Been here all along so why can't you see?

[xxangel458xx]

Uh ignore this Dx Sorry!

[RikoRain]

-.- lol

Just a side note because I dont like the topics here but..

That guy is 1 of a million who go to jail. Apparently he figured if hes spending the rest of his life in jail, might as well do something with it.

Keep in mind a lot of people who go to jail actually LIKE jail. Why? Free bedding, warm place to stay, roof over your head, free food, free exercise, free clothing.. you can even request books and such. Some even get TVs right there in their cells. All they have to do is w/e the guards tell them to, and w/e other time they get, they can do whatever.

And most of the time, any number of years in jail, wont change a person.
Plus, all that time they are in jail (which might I add jails as it is are severely overcrowded), its using taxpayers money. Pfft if they off a few saves money. >.> lol sounds mean but its the hard logical truth. Why stick em in jail for the rest of their lives? All its prolly gonna do is just eat away money, and take up space/resources.
Again, sounds cruel, but thats a hard truth.

[UzumakiW]

Lol, if people took my speech in a way where I'm against the death penalty, it's actually the opposite for me. I support it, but I felt that was an interesting way to look at it.

I'll post a longer opinion on it a little later when I'm in the mood to type about it.

[Synthetic_Sheep]

Life is funner when you learn to debate in favor of the side you oppose.
x_o Yeah.

[master_maxin]

I support it mainly because 1/2 the people who get "life in prison" get let out way early, then.. kill again, and .. yay? Even if people "repent" or "change" there should still be some pretty damn harsh repercussion for taking someone elses life, let alone SEVERAL people's lives. I've seen too many times when people claim to have changed just to get out of jail - the truth is they haven't. Granted, I agree with the ... executing innocents kind of sucks, so maybe yes a bit of a waiting period to see if additional evidence comes up is good or not. But also, we already have an overcrowding problem with our jails. So let the people who have less severe crimes sit in there and think about what they've done. As for mass murderers, aren't we better off without psychopaths having the CHANCE to even get out and roam free again? I'd rather have them not alive <3

[Eliasj]

To the person saying DNA evidence "proves innocence of mass murderers", DNA can be faked with ease. In fact, any high school that has a biology lab has the tools necessary to do so.

[Synthetic_Sheep]

To the person saying DNA evidence "proves innocence of mass murderers", DNA can be faked with ease. In fact, any high school that has a biology lab has the tools necessary to do so.

o_o.... wow. Please elaborate.

[onetweetybird1]

What is the punishment for killing others in most of Western World while one is in prison. More time in prison, solitary confinement. Those who kill in prison, and its proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, should be given a death penalty and have it carried out shortly thereafter the proof is given. Child rapists should be in this category if they are mentally competent, and that is a big if as they already have a problem. Those who habitually harm others, such as serial rapists/killers should be in this category.

I don't believe a person who deliberately kills should be let out of prison earlier than a min of 20 years, no matter if their a born again Christian or if it looks like they reformed and the prison is overcrowded.

I don't think the older person in a couple where one just turned legal for sex and has sex with her significant other who is a few months younger should be prosecuted for statutory ****. I also don't think date **** should be punished as hard as "regular" **** because both were intoxicated and the one who wanted it will be remorseful after learning what happened (they are remorseful because they hurt the one they liked).

Back to browsing the forum for what I am looking for.

[keleios]

Oi oi oi oi. Why must you bring teh seriousnesssss.
Anyhow, statutory **** is a slippery slope, best just to avoid people too young. Date **** involves KNOWINGLY affecting someone's ability to say no, you realise alot of times the people that do the raping make sure their victim is completely knocked out, right? SO, it's fine how it is.