New [BETA] Guild Tourney

[Takimi]

New [BETA] Guild Tourney Initial Feedback


- So, our two guilds that participated in the guild tourney in Apoline (Majestic & Renescence) have just finished our match.

- Not only did it take us a bit to figure out what we were supposed to do, but we expected it to be longer than 10 minutes or so. We thought it would be about 30 minutes, maybe an hour.

Edit: So re-reading the announcement, it says there are 30 minutes to each round, this is not demonstrated in a very clear way as to how each round is conducted. Or, how many rounds there are.

- We were disappointed in the lack of strategy, and skill it took to accomplish this event. Not only that, we only had TWO guilds compete. Not much of a challenge.

Things we think should possibly be adjusted:
+ Making it longer
+ Lowering entry fee
+ More in-depth detail on how to run the event

-We had a 10 minute or so round of stealing flags and what not- then we had a window pop up after seeing the [Guild So-and-So Won] that asked if we wanted to quit. So we assumed that's what we were supposed to do. Others stayed in to take screenshots, then were warped out.

- I noticed after there was a pop-up window that said (when you clicked the X on it) "Would you like to cancel Guild Tourney Observer." (Or something close to that). I don't know what that is, and it wasn't explained as to what it was.

- This is just initial feedback, but we pretty much just went in, killed a bunch of people, stole flags and won. So... explanations of the grey areas would be helpful.

-Also, any feedback from either guild who participated and other servers would be appreciated, I will add it to the OP.


Edit:
+ So apparently people not in guilds can view the event- I'm not sure how this works, but next time around, I'll check it out.

[RikoRain]

Well the 10g entry fee sucks, no way would I pay that to get in there, big guild or not.

And the time seems lame. It sounds like (and pardon the reference) Capture the Flag from.. well again pardon me for mentioning this, but from Runescape. And I believe there each round is 30+ minutes long. So 30 minutes would make more sense, and would provide more of a challenge.

Third point.. it is kinda lame tho that Maj is always the firs one in there. Tbh, we all know Maj, and how strong they are. Most ppl stand no chance against them. And if you wanna take it as an insult, FINE, take it as that, but its a compliment. Its like Rena and Maj up there on the high stalks and no one else has a chance against em.
(And FYI, dun flame me for saying the names, lots of ppl know Maj/Rena were the only ones in that tourny, and if not, they deserve to know the first people to do the new beta tourny).

And as for the observer thing.. I had some guildies who went in and "watched", so im guessing thats what it means. But Im curious, would just one person saying to cancel observations kick everyone out? (because apparently one of them got kicked out), or does it take a majority vote of people IN the game to kick out observers?

I know its in Beta but it would be kewl if they would enlighten us.

And I would go in and offer to test it and figure it out, but freaking a.. 10g a pop isnt worth it for something in Beta.

Edit: And whats the prize anyway? All participants put in 10g to get in... but no reward? Its lame.

EDIT 2: LOL

[Takimi]

Well the 10g entry fee sucks, no way would I pay that to get in there, big guild or not.

And the time seems lame. It sounds like (and pardon the reference) Capture the Flag from.. well again pardon me for mentioning this, but from Runescape. And I believe there each round is 30+ minutes long. So 30 minutes would make more sense, and would provide more of a challenge.

Third point.. it is kinda lame tho that Maj is in there. Tbh, we all know Maj has tons of sc. Why even bother? Just a lil side thing, like the only guild who could bother is Rena.

I'm sorry if you think my guild sucks. I thought you were better than to flame on public forums, even if you don't like us- and I thought we were friends too. Rena has spark cash too. It's not like we were uneven. Don't flame us because we decided to front 10 gold to play and test it out. Every guild can use spark cash if they want to. Even you use spark cash, albeit not as often as others.

And as for the observer thing.. I had some guildies who went in and "watched", so im guessing thats what it means. But Im curious, would just one person saying to cancel observations kick everyone out? (because apparently one of them got kicked out), or does it take a majority vote of people IN the game to kick out observers?

The observer thing popped up after the round was over.

I know its in Beta but it would be kewl if they would enlighten us.

And I would go in and offer to test it and figure it out, but freaking a.. 10g a pop isnt worth it for something in Beta.

Edit: And whats the prize anyway? All participants put in 10g to get in... but no reward? Its lame.

Prize are pots that increase damage and m.damage, each progression of pots increases a little more, and they have pots for level 1, 20, 40, 60, 80 and 100 (well, what level they are usable at)


Replies in purple.

[blackjoker]

To be honest, they have gems of money, 10g is nothing for them.
Think about that they nearly got all the HG weapones and each hellgait can sell 40g+.

For other guilds, it's no point to join even it is 1g entry fee, cos the 3rd also lose money.

BTW, the system of Guild Tourney fundamentally failed.

[Takimi]

Please don't flame, this thread is to get a response back from other severs and the other guild that participated to help OutSpark improve this system.

Thank you.

[Deux_Murakama]

Hey, people.
How about you leave this thread about the tournament and not flame a guild because they progress faster than others. Taki made this to get other feedback not to get disgruntled people to flame.

[RikoRain]

Lol @ replies in a quote, so that I have to go through all the trouble of either trying to re-quote them out of it, or deal with your small post.

Either way, go loook at it. You already yelled in MSN about it. There, I changed it, happy? Since you took it as an insult, when it was a compliment, and you seem to be the only one with a prob with everything anyone says even when its a compliment.


To be honest, they have gems of money, 10g is nothing for them.
Think about that they nearly got all the HG weapones and each hellgait can sell 40g+.

For other guilds, it's no point to join even it is 1g entry fee, cos the 3rd also lose money.

BTW, the system of Guild Tourney fundamentally failed.
It did.


Hey, people.
How about you leave this thread about the tournament and not flame a guild because they progress faster than others. Taki made this to get other feedback not to get disgruntled people to flame.

Its not flaming. You dont want anyone to reply, then why post it. If youre only meaning for Maj to reply back, then why post it in a public area and not in the Maj guild thread.

[lordalden]

Its not flaming. You dont want anyone to reply, then why post it. If youre only meaning for Maj to reply back, then why post it in a public area and not in the Maj guild thread.

Looking at the general idea of things, and that this is in General Discussion, I have to agree with the initial and final points made in the quoted text. Although I disagree with Riko's first method of reply on some areas, to be quite honest, it is a discussion area related to general audiences. Asking for specific feedback from a wide audience who for the most part, were non-participants, and then attempting to rebuke them from the thread for it, is a very fruitless effort in my eyes.

Let's keep it on track, and if you do not want general replies, ask me to either A.) Move this to a specific location for specific feedback, or B.) Close this so you can re-create it in an area where more specific information that involves the topic may be gathered.

Otherwise, saying you're not interested in what they're saying, or implying it with posts, regardless of their participation or not, is not really going to do you much good, and may be seen as flaming.

[smileeloser101]

Thanks for putting this thread up Taki! I agree with everything said in the OP, having participated. I sat at my computer staring at the screen watching things flash across the screen for a few minutes before I started to understand how it all worked. Some instruction would be verrry helpful. I was also under the impression, that the tournament would hold multiple rounds as to match the price of 10g...Rather disappointing all in all.


To be honest, they have gems of money, 10g is nothing for them.
Think about that they nearly got all the HG weapones and each hellgait can sell 40g+.


Was that really necessary? And is that why you keep chain warring us?




Please don't flame, this thread is to get a response back from other severs and the other guild that participated to help OutSpark improve this system.

Thank you.



I love you Taki.

[Takimi]

This is intended to be a thread for information gathering from the two guilds and other servers for OS to review and help us out with the BETA. I'd also like for the GM's to make an appearance and explain a few things. No one said anything about not replying. That's purely your own view.


-Also, any feedback from either guild who participated and other servers would be appreciated, I will add it to the OP.

As I stated, I'd rather hope others will comment on their feedback.

[lordalden]

This is intended to be a thread for information gathering from the two guilds and other servers for OS to review and help us out with the BETA. I'd also like for the GM's to make an appearance and explain a few things. No one said anything about not replying. That's purely your own view.



As I stated, I'd rather hope others will comment on their feedback.

[/FONT]

You disputing feedback is arguing with their opinion, it's going to accomplish absolutely nothing. If you feel they're making an attack, that's a private matter that you and the individual need to deal with, or that you need to contact a CL with regarding moderation for on the forums.

I understand wanting to defend your guild or yourself(and I've already made my intentions here clear outside of the thread), however, asking for feedback and the usefulness for that are separate pursuits of interest. As it stands, if you want feedback, disputing what you're asking for will serve more to alienate those you want to speak up on, even if they agree with what you were willing to pay in on. That's merely how feedback rolling in works.

Edit: This is the last post I'm making in this thread as it is admittedly off-topic. I would rather not have to be asked to come in and check this thread out again, as I feel it's meant for good things. I very much dislike closing threads with what I see having good intentions.

[Deux_Murakama]

Lol @ replies in a quote, so that I have to go through all the trouble of either trying to re-quote them out of it, or deal with your small post.

Either way, go loook at it. You already yelled in MSN about it. There, I changed it, happy? Since you took it as an insult, when it was a compliment, and you seem to be the only one with a prob with everything anyone says even when its a compliment.


It did.



Its not flaming. You dont want anyone to reply, then why post it. If youre only meaning for Maj to reply back, then why post it in a public area and not in the Maj guild thread.

Riko, you directly jumped back to Apoline. You didnt even join the tournament to experience it. So how can you say all the things you state now? Majestic is rich with spark cash, request it and we'll step down to bare minimum and use only in game items. Now as for the Tournament I think the OP intended to get feedback from people that actually participated, meaning:
pay 10g
get warp to the area
engage in combat with another guild
And maybe with actual observers, you know the ones that watched the entire thing. Its an OPEN BETA, things might be subjected to change, OutSpark expects feedback from us, you stating [AMG!?! We cant compete because they use everything that OutSpark has given them] won't get the Tournament a completely bad review, why not post something along the lines as [I don't think it's fair that people are allowed to charm and use critical suits, since not all are able to get those because of their means of living], would get more of a positive response than your original post. As for your complaints of helgait weapons, joker, we used everything we were given for a shot at those.

The only way to beat helga at the moment is with the things OutSpark provides, if you don't like it too bad, wait til they raise cap to 120 when a uncharmed party might be able to take down Helga.

On a side note, I would like OutSpark/OnsOnSoft to implement a version where charms, crit suits, stat pots would be negated until the tournament is over.

[drigr_x]

I observed almost the whole thing on Epith. it lasted also about 10 min before Leg killed AZUMI. I think with the guild in it, you need a higher cap of point to win (1k = win). Mostly it was, capture this flag, stay here and kill anyone coming, try and move to the next, rinse wash repeat. Kinda like trench warfare.

[Takimi]

I observed almost the whole thing on Epith. it lasted also about 10 min before Leg killed AZUMI. I think with the guild in it, you need a higher cap of point to win (1k = win). Mostly it was, capture this flag, stay here and kill anyone coming, try and move to the next, rinse wash repeat. Kinda like trench warfare.


This is what I noticed as well. Do you have any other opinions on what should maybe be changed aside from the first three tentative ideas (ie: lower entry fee)

And I think that all sc should be negated as well. It seems that's the only way you can put on an even playing field... unless someone thinks that playing with Hellgaits is uneven now too.

[RikoRain]

I observed almost the whole thing on Epith. it lasted also about 10 min before Leg killed AZUMI. I think with the guild in it, you need a higher cap of point to win (1k = win). Mostly it was, capture this flag, stay here and kill anyone coming, try and move to the next, rinse wash repeat. Kinda like trench warfare.

Tho you gotta admit, if its a capture the flag type thing, people have been trying to do that in Fiesta before now, and its been extremely hard (having to use lv 1 noobs as flags, for example). I thought the tourny was just a guild war type thing but its nice to know its a actual minigame type.

And as for the sc points, maybe they could just turn off charms or whatnot. Idk can you even put ON scrolls IN the tourny? Mebbe they could just make it more like hoq PVP kq is and turn off scrolls in there, but also turn off charms.
Im iffy on agreeing with total sc removal, because there are alot of people who use low sc outfits (like tux's, or permy outfits) as opposed to the people who totally 30-50% crit out with the outfits

[Icetra]

And I think that all sc should be negated as well. It seems that's the only way you can put on an even playing field... unless someone thinks that playing with Hellgaits is uneven now too.


To some, it would be unfair, since it's a fact that Hellgaits are powerful. However, I'd rather see Hellgaits than SparkCash being used in the tournament.

That's just me, since you really can't 'hate' on nobody for earning a weapon.

[Phurry]

Hell to me it seemed more of a WoW (World of Warcraft) Battle grounds. It's pretty much the same as the Arathi Basin battle grounds in WoW. And i can say from personal experience since I participated in the tournament.

[Takimi]

Exactly, if we had this back when the only special weapons were the Teva- no one complained back then because they earned it. People with Hellgaits earned them either by working to kill Helga or working for enough money to buy one. Either way, it take an enormous amount of effort.

So honestly, if you have a super awesome boss weapon, it's perfectly fair- they worked for it. Spark Cash... not so much.


Hell to me it seemed more of a WoW (World of Warcraft) Battle grounds. It's pretty much the same as the Arathi Basin battle grounds in WoW. And i can say from personal experience since I participated in the tournament.

I haven't played WoW, maybe if you could explain this a little more?

[Phurry]

In WoW the Arathi Basin Battle Ground, is a pvp based event such as this tournament. But in WoW it is Horde vs Alliance, not guild vs guild. But its still the same for the reason they both constist of flag capture and killing to a certain amount.

[Icetra]

Bijou, Teva, Apoline, and Epith are sure to have feedback...

The other two servers... *shrugs* I dunno, but I'll see if anything happens on Legel. So far, no one has participated. x.x

[lordalden]

If I see more posts not discussing the tournament explicitly, in part, I'm from here on out going to issue a warning and delete the entire post. I'm not going to play games with this.

[Takimi]

In WoW the Arathi Basin Battle Ground, is a pvp based event such as this tournament. But in WoW it is Horde vs Alliance, not guild vs guild. But its still the same for the reason they both consist of flag capture and killing to a certain amount.


Yes well, obviously not every game can be completely original in events they come up with. At least OS put something like this into play, we've been asking for something like this for a while now.

I'm hoping the other participants from the other servers pop up soon so we can hear from what happened there.

[RikoRain]

Oh well WOW isnt even original with it either. Several other games had it before them, and so on, and so forth. Seems its a trend now anyway for every MMO to have some sort of KING OF THE HILL or CAPTURE THE FLAG or RACE type of thing in them.

Tho.

I think Id still prefer custom houses over a beta tourny. The tourny causes so many additional problems with Guild variations, strength, sc items, timing, prices, etc, where as custom houses wouldnt really cause many problems.

[Phurry]

I personally think the scoring should be a bit higher, 1k isnt all that fun it went by too fast. Now if it was like 5k-10k that would be awesome! Just my personal opinion though. As for the capturing the flag bit, it works out once you get used to it, and its actually amusing to me. The rewards are pretty good also. Only thing that is a concern to me is the scoring.

[RikoRain]

Ya know.

Maybe if some guilds dont mind they should do it again (and by mind I mean the fact that it costs 10g a pop), and either record it and upload to share, or take a lot of screenshots. I think that might help out a thread like this more, as the people who are replying are able to see more of what its like.

[joecracker]

there is a seprate section of the forums for this, why dont you CL please move this to it like the others, co,me on keep the gen clean of this :)

Edit by lordalden : I've kept it here thus far based on the persuasion of the OP for a good reason brought forth. I'm always willing to accept criticism and this is one of those times where it was the better idea. (I decided to put this here to leave less clutter on this thread.)

[RikoRain]

Say what now? -confused-

Uhhh back on topic. Lesseee well ya know, actually, since the tourny is in Beta, why didnt OS make the entree fee like 1g or something easier for ppl to get in and test the beta with o.o

[alexvvill]

I guess the tournament was fun probably just because its a new feature, it would have been better if there were more guilds who could have joined, I agree with RikoRain about the reason why other guilds wouldn't join because renascence and majestic have higher level players and heavy sc users, because I was on some other guilds asking them to join and they said they wouldn't stand a chance or the other reason would be "Give me 10g and we'll join" I guess when other guilds are interested on trying this tournament out we can have an agreement about Majestic not using charms or sc pots but that goes for the other guilds too, but we would have to use spark cash for other guilds who wishes to use spark cash.

All I want is to give everyone a chance to try this out not just because I want to have fun but I want everyone else to take advantage of what they can in this game, we all want to have fun and I always do my best to keep my word so if you guys want to try out the tournament please do so! I would also suggest that outspark lower the fee because with 10g I can actually buy gears from level 1 to level 70.

[drigr_x]

I also agree with the price being too high. I would've put some money if it was like 1g and not 10. 100s seems like a more sound investment to get ownd than 1g

(thats considering the guild pools together and not one person fronts the war)

Personally, 10g could go better in our guild storage to pay our acad.

[alexvvill]

Well I think anything bellow 1g is too much because there could be a possibility that people would abuse it and just enter to take up space, so I think anything between 3g-5g would be something a whole guild can chip in with but that's just my opinion though.

[joecracker]

GM made this
-----------------------------

I'm putting a sticky list up for reference. I'll post the common issues everyone seems to agree on, but don't worry we'll read them all.


1. System is "too expensive"

Things to keep in mind:

- We do not collect the money, nor do we have a use for it, it's simply to maintain the economy
- Costs were created in order to create a pool for the winner
- Costs were one thing that was talked about, which ranged from making it cost nothing to 20. It's in beta for a reason, to test the cost as well as the system. The price may change soon.

2. Maximum player amount may be too high for each match

- A limit of 20-30 has been recommended

3. The use of cash shop items during match times should be suspended. This includes mounts and charms.

4. Match times should be adjusted to cater to all of US audience.

5. Guild limit should be set to 16 people maximum.

- This was suggested to avoid loss of money in case a guild is not chosen to participate.
Last edited by GM_Straega; 09-24-2009 at 07:38 PM.
--------------------------------------------------


i dont aggree with a few things on that CS items being one, most people build there char based on extenders sc pots crit/def/dmg suits etc etc

[RikoRain]

Well I think anything bellow 1g is too much because there could be a possibility that people would abuse it and just enter to take up space, so I think anything between 3g-5g would be something a whole guild can chip in with but that's just my opinion though.

Yeah I thought about the 100s thing, and figured many guilds would join in just to try and leech rewards. The 1g is still kinda low.
I just dont see 10g being a good price. I mean even like 7g would seem alot better than 10g.


GM made this
-----------------------------

I'm putting a sticky list up for reference. I'll post the common issues everyone seems to agree on, but don't worry we'll read them all.


1. System is "too expensive"

Things to keep in mind:

- We do not collect the money, nor do we have a use for it, it's simply to maintain the economy
- Costs were created in order to create a pool for the winner
- Costs were one thing that was talked about, which ranged from making it cost nothing to 20. It's in beta for a reason, to test the cost as well as the system. The price may change soon.

2. Maximum player amount may be too high for each match

- A limit of 20-30 has been recommended

3. The use of cash shop items during match times should be suspended. This includes mounts and charms.

4. Match times should be adjusted to cater to all of US audience.

5. Guild limit should be set to 16 people maximum.

- This was suggested to avoid loss of money in case a guild is not chosen to participate.
Last edited by GM_Straega; 09-24-2009 at 07:38 PM.
--------------------------------------------------


i dont aggree with a few things on that CS items being one, most people build there char based on extenders sc pots crit/def/dmg suits etc etc

Wow
Guise no onw even saw it
theres a whole thread area for the tourny in beta.
http://www.outspark.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=292
And theres already loads of posts already discussing what the OP posted.

You can view GM_Straega's post here http://www.outspark.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2700887&postcount=1
It seems hes keeping it pretty up to date so theres actually been more added to it since Joe quoted it.

[CSR_Circe]

While this has been a worthwhile and informative "first person" account of ONE Tournament, I think this thread has reach its end. If you have more to contribute to the topic in general please visit choose the most appropriate thread here:
http://www.outspark.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=292

If your topic has not already been created, please do create one of your own.

Thanks for taking the time to provide us with your feedback.