Endure: 50 copper please.

[Kholai]

So, since I got endure, I've been a bit buff-happy, I obviously buff everyone in Uruga, since everyone needs, and appreciates, it there.

Other than this I have:
Buffed all of Roumen.
Buffed every level 20 heading for their class change, and everyone coming into the forest of mist.
Buffed everyone running through Elderine.
Buffed anyone near me in Collapsed Prison.

And.... As an experiment, I once sat in Roumen and offered to cast endure on people for 50 copper.

You know the result? Any cleric with endure probably already knows the result of the first four. About one person in fifty even acknowledges it. One person in twenty asking even says please, and in CP five to ten people all run up to you at once going "can buff me?" "buff my friend" as soon as they notice you.

Let's not forget the people going "looking for cleric to buff", not party, but buff.


So what about the experiment? What about selling Endure for 50c in a market where vitality scrolls cost 200?

Every single person thanked me, and more than half of them added me as a friend.


Why? Why did people appreciate it more when they were actually paying for the privilege?
My theory is that a lot of people simply take it for granted. They aren't paying for it, so they aren't attaching value to it. They think nothing of coming up whilst you're fighting seven monsters at once and demanding a buff, let alone the cost. Endure costs 150 SP every cast, 200 for the level 59 version. That's six seconds of rest time that you could be grinding, or one tier 1 potion. That's not much, but it sure adds up.


So, what am I going to do?
Well, I'm still going to buff people whenever I feel like it, for free. I'll buff my friends , party and guild-mates (the same thing usually, we're a close-knit crew) whenever I want, for free. I'll buff peeps in Uruga and KQs free too, since endure is pretty much assumed in game balance by then.

Everyone else? Fifty copper please.

Yeah, I know I don't need 50 copper, and I know full well that everyone over level 10 can afford that easily. I'm also fairly sure that it's a fair price, considering how good the buff is, better than a tier 1 Mentality and tier 1 vitality combined.

So why am I going to do this?
To make sure that people think about how valuable it is, and stop taking it for granted.
To make the person who wants the buff have to go to the trouble of going into trade window, put in fifty copper and accept. I go to trouble, they go to trouble. I spend money on SP stones whilst casting Endure on them, they cover my expenses.
So I can reward people for politeness. If they pay and take the time to say thank you properly, maybe I'll buff them for free next time. If they bug me, then they'll just have to keep on paying.

If someone doesn't want to pay 50c, then that's fine. They can go bother another cleric.

[joecracker]

lol, dont charge, its part of the job ;)

i am only a few lvls away, and everyone i see i know is buffed on the spot ;)

[Kholai]

Good for you! I hope you never get tired of buffing endless numbers of people who aren't in your party, you've never talked to before and who'll never thank you nor say please for your services. And I mean that sincerely.

Honestly, I was hoping for more discussion on the subject than this. Someone's posted that everybody deserves, along with free healing, I assume outside or inside or party or guild, and I agree, since heal is cheap and vital, free Endure.

So if clerics should cast endure for free, does this mean that scrolls should be sold at base cost, without making any profit on them? If so (I think that the price of scrolls currently is ridiculous, so I sure think so) then Endure should be free. If not, then why should endure, another hour long buff of superior calibre, be worth nothing?


I also note with some amusement that someone voted that it was evil to charge people for Endure, but it was fair to pay for it. Masterful.

[Jhanniss]

People often ask me why I run around in newbie gear or no gear at all. Because I don't like being bothered by folks sometimes. Last night I'm battling it out with my friend who's level 53 and people are going "buff me", "can I get a buff?", like you don't see I'm engaged in a life and death truggle of PVP against a higher level mage. :eek:

It's like this, if I'm in the middle of a fight, a battle, or mass chaos I will not buff you for any reason when it puts my own safety in jeapordy (sp). Deal with it.

I would have taken off my gear during the battle but I needed all the defense I could get my hands on for that fight, which ironically enough lasted nearly the entire hour and neither of us died.

As for charging, I think its anyones right to charge if they want to. Its our spells, and our business. It's not our job. Plus it would help keep the moochers away most of the time. :3

[Accalia]

Haha I post instead of rushing to class >.<

You're forgetting the people who train 5 mobs onto your party and then stand there and ask for a buff.

I don't mind buffing people and will usually buff people w/o them asking...unless it's my own party in which case, it's going to slip my mind as I'm healing from constant waves of mobs they pull. Then they just remind me to buff let me have a 15 second break to buff and stone. :D

I wouldn't charge people though. There are quite a few clerics in the 47 range now that pretty much keep the population in a state of constant buff euphoria.

[Leedles]

I was honestly wondering when this was going to be posted. You actually have people paying you for it? And they're more polite when they pay? That's amazing.

I'm so glad I have the clerics in my guild to buff me ... lol! I'd run around buffless before I'd pay for it, no offense. I know, 50c is cheap. But ... meh. Still wouldn't pay for it. Yes, I'm cheap, so what? :p


I play a healer on another game and buff everyone I see for free (unless I'm in battle). Personally, I don't care if they say thank you or not. Kinda stinks when they throw a party invite your way just because you buffed them and they want you as fulltime healer. The nicest thing anyone has done for me for my buffs: the other day someone said "let me know when you need help with a quest - you've buffed me every time you've seen me, thank you". Much more rewarding then anything else - it's too bad more people aren't like him.

[Kholai]

I was honestly wondering when this was going to be posted. You actually have people paying you for it? And they're more polite when they pay? That's amazing.

I'm so glad I have the clerics in my guild to buff me ... lol! I'd run around buffless before I'd pay for it, no offense. I know, 50c is cheap. But ... meh. Still wouldn't pay for it. Yes, I'm cheap, so what? :p

Yep. It really is amazing how much more appreciative/polite they were when they actually paid for the service. Every person who bought it said that it was a good deal.

And yes, you're very welcome to decline to pay, and you still would probably get a free buff out of me if I was just resting somewhere and you happened to pass me, but you wouldn't go out of your way to ask if you thought you'd have to pay for it, would you?

I'm still interested of course, (what) do you pay for scrolls? Do you only use the ones you make yourself?



The nicest thing anyone has done for me for my buffs: the other day someone said "let me know when you need help with a quest - you've buffed me every time you've seen me, thank you". Much more rewarding then anything else - it's too bad more people aren't like him.


If more people showed some manners when they asked for a buff, I'd never even consider charging them. If only more people aren't like them indeed.

[Leedles]

Hehe - well, you also know I'd personally say please and thank you if I ever asked you for a buff :p And no, definitely wouldn't go out of my way to ask if I knew I'd have to pay (because I'm cheap - lol!)

I'm not saying it's not a good deal - it is when you compare prices with scrolls. But, I pay nothing for my scrolls (yay for scroll making!!!). Of course, soon that could be hard to do since decomp is such a pain to raise and the monsters in Uruga and AEW have drops too big for me to decomp.

[Donutz]

I kind of agree with Kholai, even though my cleric is still a low level, I still get annoyed with people who come up to me and just follow me around for awhile going heal heal heal heal heal OMG FKING HEAL =.= they arnt even in my party. Sure if they were friends, party members, or guild mates id heal or buff for free, but people are just getting really annoying running around asking and demanding things. Even some cases ive wished I could pk them on the spot for being so annoying.

[Xanthros]

I am a cleric, and I support this message.

If you think you deserve to get it for free, start grinding a cleric and get ready to invest many hrs and large amounts of silver. 50c is a drop in the bucket comparatively, and if you're over lv 20 you can get that in 1 kill of something in MT on the avg.

X-

[Forbin]

I voted for every option because you fail at making polls.

Also, Endure is worth every copper. I'd pay 200c if I had to, and it was readily available right in front of me. :P
(At least on my other toons. My Cleric is 41, and doesn't need Endure even to solo Uruga)

[Harmonie_Ace]

Just in the last day I've been randomly buffed by other clerics. XD

I felt bad once because I didn't even realize I'd been buffed until the person had gone through the gate from Sea of Greed into Elderine. (I was trying to get into a KQ and focusing on the clock. XD I saw someone cast something nearby, but didn't really think anything of it, since I thought they were casting on themself. So...thank you, whoever you were!)

I don't have Endure myself yet, but I can't wait until I do. XD It'd really help out my parties and some of the people I frequently see. ^^

Anyway, it seems fair to charge for Endure. If they don't like it, they don't have to pay. Simple as that. Nobody's forcing them to do so, after all.

[Semaj]

i try and thank people when i get a buff, even though sometimes i dont realize it for a few mins -_- *dont always pay attention to all my buff's*
i always shout a thank you for whoever buffed me if i dont know who they are :) (i usually dont -_-)

im just not hitting 38 but id pay 50c for that buff. id pay it all day long.

and as for scrolls, i make my own, and sell them to guild mates for a little above cost (some of the T1 mats are a pain to get).

[Nerria]

I'd pay for it if I needed it - I'd never ask for payment though. I'd gladly accept it though as a donation! Help pay for the SP I burn through out in zones when people line-up and beg. >.<

But hey, I spend my days hanging in Roumen buffing everyone - so it really doesn't bother me. I play a Cleric to buff because it's fun to me. :3

[Summit]

Good for you! I hope you never get tired of buffing endless numbers of people who aren't in your party, you've never talked to before and who'll never thank you nor say please for your services. And I mean that sincerely.

Honestly, I was hoping for more discussion on the subject than this. Someone's posted that everybody deserves, along with free healing, I assume outside or inside or party or guild, and I agree, since heal is cheap and vital, free Endure.

So if clerics should cast endure for free, does this mean that scrolls should be sold at base cost, without making any profit on them? If so (I think that the price of scrolls currently is ridiculous, so I sure think so) then Endure should be free. If not, then why should endure, another hour long buff of superior calibre, be worth nothing?


I also note with some amusement that someone voted that it was evil to charge people for Endure, but it was fair to pay for it. Masterful.


Want to set an example of who you will or wont buff instead of just buffing everyone in uru, buff only those who say please and thank you, i myself have never buffed someone who has spammed "please buff" or something along those lines, I only take the time to help the polite players, the others If it may be they asked during the middle of a mob fight I'd just ignore them and walk to another mob to kill, So only share your love to who who ask once and wait. not to any jaw happy person in uru. that makes you seem like a buff happy hoe.

[notalther]

if people give it to me, i say thank you. if i'm in party with 47+ cleric, i ask nicely for it. otherwise i do without.
if for some reason i really need it, i offer to pay 500c for it.
i've offered as much as 1s for it, and 1s for a rez as well.
i think it's nice to give them out, but only expected when in party. otherwise, i think every cleric should charge for it. i get sick of seeing people run around saying 'buff me' 'buff me', i can't imagine how much more annoying it can be for a cleric.

[SpeedBurner]

I never ask for buffs. It's a pride thing of being a mage and saying you can fight on your own.

Of course, buffs are appreciated, and I do thank the kind clerics that do it for the heck of it.

Then there's the times you're in a party. And that cleric doesn't even heal you. And you're like, at critical health and are gonna die in one more hit, and they run off to find more monsters they expect you to nuke. GRAAAAH.

But yeah, I wouldn't take to it, and I never ask a cleric to buff me. I do, however, ask for resurrections, because it sucks needing to walk back to town. I do my best to sound polite about it and not go "OMG, you stupid cleric, you're RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. For the love of godz, REZZ ME REZZ ME!!"

I more of...say that I would like one, but imply they're aren't entitled to do a thing for me. Afterall, they get tons of people dying on the map, spamming shout for resurrections and beggars for buffs, and the last thing they need is to revive ANOTHER mage.

MAN, is it going to be fun when I start my cleric. :D

[ArcMichael]

Good for you! I hope you never get tired of buffing endless numbers of people who aren't in your party, you've never talked to before and who'll never thank you nor say please for your services. And I mean that sincerely.

This, needless to say, scores less than an 1 on my Terrible-Things-That-Be Meter.

This does not mean that I condone impertinence; politeness is one of the greatest virtues we have. However, there are people who refuse to be cordial, and this rule applies tenfold to the Internet. Clerics, despite the helpful services that they do provide (as well as the many other healing classes on many other MMORPGs) are not the only ones who suffer this sort of treatment. Most MMORPGs I've played offer some sort of defense when these sorts of things get out of hand, from muting everyone to reporting the offender to even being able to teleport. Additionally, I hear this game offers a feature that enables the player to remove all other players from view in order to reduce latency, which could be used strategically to outsmart a potential moocher.

It's obvious that you feel strongly, maybe even too strongly, about this issue, but it is a manageable problem that doesn't have to involve a "Some People-Treat-Me-Like-Crap-So-I'll-Treat-Others-The-Same" or a "The-Foolish-Mortals-Will-Pay-For-Their-Insolence" mindset.

Additionally, I wouldn't have said the above if I wasn't at least moderately sure that you would turn on people who mean no ill will, as judged from your comments. I'm sure you're not normally a mean person, but I'd hate to be the one to tip you over the edge after a bad day, ultimately resulting in both our days becoming even worse.

[johnkx]

-.- pay for buffs.. X_X i can't do that to high lvl players.. well maybe in roumen.. X_X i rather buff them for free if they asked properly.. but if their willing to pay i would accept it >:P

[Kholai]

Leedles, if you're too cheap to even pay for scrolls, I won't expect you to appreciate any price for endure. This is quite alright,




Most MMORPGs I've played offer some sort of defense when these sorts of things get out of hand, from muting everyone to reporting the offender to even being able to teleport. Additionally, I hear this game offers a feature that enables the player to remove all other players from view in order to reduce latency, which could be used strategically to outsmart a potential moocher.


The hide other players option does not function when you are in a party, whilst even if you went to the inconvenience of filtering all normal chat, which does not stop the word bubble appearing above peoples' heads, there would still be up to ten people all crowding around you.


It's obvious that you feel strongly, maybe even too strongly, about this issue, but it is a manageable problem that doesn't have to involve a "Some People-Treat-Me-Like-Crap-So-I'll-Treat-Others-The-Same" or a "The-Foolish-Mortals-Will-Pay-For-Their-Insolence" mindset.

Mm.... I don't really feel that strongly about it, nor do I consider charging people for my services to be unreasonable, and as many people in this thread have shown they agree with that reasoning, I am interested as to why you consider it otherwise.
And yes. Foolish mortals will indeed pay for their insolence. With fifty copper. People don't seem to appreciate that buffing endless numbers is time consuming, expensive and inconvenient, perhaps this way they might grow to appreciate that fact.


Additionally, I wouldn't have said the above if I wasn't at least moderately sure that you would turn on people who mean no ill will, as judged from your comments. I'm sure you're not normally a mean person, but I'd hate to be the one to tip you over the edge after a bad day, ultimately resulting in both our days becoming even worse.

Turn on? The worst I've done is berate someone for bad manners, and if I did that for every person who saw my armour, rode up on a horse and went "buff plz", or even the ones who follow me from map to map doing it, I'd never have any time left for grinding, which is usually what they're interrupting.

SpeedBurner - Ignored by your own clerics. For shame. They don't seem to appreciate that in an AOE group, the mages are probably going to need more attention than the tank does.



So, anyway. Last night I began this new policy. Four times the situation came up, one level 15-19 fighter, who had been following me for over three maps, spamming "buff please", vanished the instant I mentioned payment, as I thought he might. Three other fellows, who all mobbed me at once whilst my party was grinding in CP all paid 50 copper, except one who went to, but got the "could not register money in trade window" bug, but I buffed him for free anyway. He was much more polite asking for a buff the second time around, an hour later, so he got it free again.
After I had to use a stone to recover SP. So.... I guess I've just about covered my expenses, and rid myself of a hanger on, and this is still on top of all the random people I Endured whilst walking back from Roumen to Elderine through the Forest of Mist.


I notice thirteen results for endure being free or that I'm evil for even suggesting it, but no posts in support of the notions. Would anyone else from the opposed philosophy care to post?

[Luna_Moore]

It all sounds like an extremely good idea to me. If people don't want to pay 50c, they can find another cleric and anyone who says it's just "a part of the job" needs to rethink their statement. I never signed anything anywhere saying I have to buff people for free. I doubt you did either. ;)

Plus it does add value to the buff. I <3 you for that (in a non-creepy way.) xD

[Hirochihachi]

People don't seem to appreciate that buffing endless numbers is time consuming, expensive and inconvenient, perhaps this way they might grow to appreciate that fact.

So...Don't buff endless numbers? You're complaining about something that you (or those you're speaking in favor of) have /chosen/ to do.


I notice thirteen results for endure being free

I think people shouldn't have to pay for Endure the same as they shouldn't beg and should be polite (or at least entertaining) about asking for it. People need to remember that they're not playing a one-player game. There are people behind almost every single one of these little pixelly models (except those gold spammers >_>), and they deserve to be treated as such until they prove that they have the one-player-game mindset themselves.

I do like the results you've gotten by asking them to, especially the pain in the *** little straggler (you let him trail you for THREE MAPS?! My god, the patience X_x)

[Kholai]

So...Don't buff endless numbers? You're complaining about something that you (or those you're speaking in favor of) have /chosen/ to do.


Each person takes five seconds,150 SP, the interruption of whatever you were doing and buffing them. I have absolutely no problem when I'm wandering along about buffing random people I see; that's my choice. When those people come to me, and they do, I start getting tired of the attention.


I think people shouldn't have to pay for Endure the same as they shouldn't beg and should be polite (or at least entertaining) about asking for it. People need to remember that they're not playing a one-player game. There are people behind almost every single one of these little pixelly models (except those gold spammers >_>), and they deserve to be treated as such until they prove that they have the one-player-game mindset themselves.


I tend to buff anyone who takes the time to write out a full and polite sentence asking me, and who doesn't show the discourtesy of interrupting me whilst I'm in the middle of combat, for free regardless. That's exactly what I mean by rewarding peoples' politeness. For everything cleric related, if people are willing to take the time and effort to ask nicely, I'm willing to go out of my way to help them out.
On the other hand, I had a level 16 fighter say the following to me, as I was reaching the gate to Elderine on my aforementioned trip:

"heal"
....
"plz"
"while I fight you heal"

As though I have nothing better to do than sit around healing her all day? I left through the Elderine gate, she followed me and said: "buff". I simply ignored her.

If people insist on treating clerics like an NPC, those clerics should charge them, because NPCs sure don't give away free items for nothing.

[Roseanna]

I'm not level 47 yet, I'm up to level 36 so far. I figure my level 47 celebration will be hiding behind the gate inside forest of tides buffing random low level players and watching their reactions. :D I remember the first time I was buffed in rumen, about level 10 or so... after triple checking my hp and sp, and calling in my husband to look at it too, I nearly reported it as a bug in the game! The things I was saying probably had that cleric hysterical laughing.

But yeah, I've been watching level 40+ clerics in CP be bugged for the buff, chased by people on horses and whatnot. Sooo I'm saving my level 30 equipment to wear when I'm not fighting. If I do charge, I'd probably charge 100c... if I buy vitality scrolls that's about what I'll pay, and endure is better than a vitality and mentality scroll combined, so it's a good deal. My sp/time isn't endless and once you buff one person 5 more will flock to you so it'll be a chain reaction.

And like was already said, my guildmates/party/friends would always get it without them even asking, and I'd still buff randomly or to the people who were kind and polite. Charging doesn't make you evil. :)

[Leedles]

Leedles, if you're too cheap to even pay for scrolls, I won't expect you to appreciate any price for endure. This is quite alright

Hrm, I don't remember saying I would NEVER pay for scrolls. I remember saying that I don't pay anything for my scrolls since I make them. It is much more cost effective for me to make my own scrolls rather than selling my materials and buying scrolls. When I run out of scroll materials, yeah, I probably WILL buy scrolls. Power and shield scrolls in particular are really important so I can hit the monster and take the hits.

If I absolutely needed the buff and none of my guildies could do it, yeah, I'd prolly pay for it. But seeing as I rarely ever solo (read practically never :p) and whenever I am in a party there's a cleric there who does have endure, I don't see myself ever needing to buy it or ask a random cleric for a buff. The cleric in my party will buff me - (s)he benefits from it as much as I do because it makes their life that much easier when I'm tanking.

Again, I did say that 50c is "cheap". It is your choice whether you charge them or not. To me if I was a cleric with endure, having to sit there and trade before the buff, costing even MORE grinding time, just wouldn't be worth it for 50c. I'd just buff them when I have a free moment (yes, they can wait for it) and have it done with - if they were polite. If they weren't, well ... they wouldn't be getting a buff no matter how much they paid for it.

[ArcMichael]

Mm.... I don't really feel that strongly about it, nor do I consider charging people for my services to be unreasonable, and as many people in this thread have shown they agree with that reasoning...

Not to seem rude, but that sentence, when coupled with this one...


I notice thirteen results for endure being free or that I'm evil for even suggesting it, but no posts in support of the notions. Would anyone else from the opposed philosophy care to post?

...makes little sense. It sounds like you're saying that people agree with you, but aren't saying anything about it, which isn't true. I specifically remember Xanthros and Donutz saying, respectfully...


I am a cleric, and I support this message.

and


I kind of agree with Kholai...

Additionally, it seems that the majority support you in the polls as well. Although this may be due to a recent change in the poll that I wasn't aware of.

I'm guessing that this may have been just a technical error.


I am interested as to why you consider it otherwise.
And yes. Foolish mortals will indeed pay for their insolence. With fifty copper. People don't seem to appreciate that buffing endless numbers is time consuming, expensive and inconvenient, perhaps this way they might grow to appreciate that fact.

The problem is in the last sentence. It is absolutely true that people don't understand that buffing an infinite amount of times is time consuming, expensive, etc. However, I doubt that forcing that irritating little brat to pay for your help will teach him anything. There may be some occasions where he'll agree to pay (such as on the three occasions you mentioned at the bottom of your post) or just walk away empty handed (although I don't think you can hold buffs in your hand), but most of the time I'm inclined to believe that it'll just make him madder, resulting in him annoying you even more, and concluding with both of you having really sour days.

In short, the foolish mortal will refuse to pay, and instead make you pay with important things that are less tangible than virtual money. :rolleyes:


Turn on? The worst I've done is berate someone for bad manners, and if I did that for every person who saw my armour, rode up on a horse and went "buff plz", or even the ones who follow me from map to map doing it, I'd never have any time left for grinding, which is usually what they're interrupting.

I may have been wrong about you being serious about it; it seems like these fellows with bad matters barely affect your routine at all, at least from the way you worded that paragraph.

Then again, this may be one of those things that you have to actually experience in order to completely understand it. I don't play as a healer very often, but most of the healers I've interacted with seem to have no problem with the job, even if they don't get paid or thanked for it. I guess the closest experience I would have to something like this would be when I was a Mage on World of Warcraft, but in that case every person who asked me for food or drink was very polite about it (So you all can't say World of Warcraft is completely horrible. ;D) so I saw no reason to force them to pay for it.

To wrap up, I'd have to agree with Narria's wisely moderate choice: Do not force people to pay, but accept tips and donations if offered. I would definitely donate to healers if the opportunity arose.

[DemonEyeKyo]

lol u greedy ****** its part of ur job... its like if i would say... no no no... i dont kill for u unless u pay me... plving = x s by exp... tss.. greedy and u know what :greedy people go to hell!!! im not the one to say that... je sus say haha


DemonEyeKyo

lvl 59 mage teva
lvl 51 mage bijou

[sdtgr1382]

Ive paid for endure before, and I think its worth it. Just think buying T1 scrolls at 100-120c your paying 240c for what endure 1 will give you. So 50c is more than fair to pay for it. I once paid 500c to a cleric to buff my party and he didnt even want to take it, but I told him to shut up and just take my money because endure just makes everything easier. So dont be stingy on endure, and if someone casts it on you throw them a little cash if you have it.:cool:

[Balder]

What the heck is wrong with the people in this board bashing up clerics because they charge endures? Listen, I'm a fighter. Its all too common knowledge that fighters buff up with scrolls anytime they can so if I saw a cleric who charged 50c for it, you know what I'd do?

I'd buy it on the spot. Vit and mentality are usually 100c+ What's the difference?

Yes, you heard me, a fighter advocating this cleric. If he wants to charge, let him charge. Its not like he goes around selling his product and you know what, if he did, he'd be filthy rich(that is if he charged it at a scroll's price)

Plus whatever happened to good game etiquette? You think rude or bothering demands would help you in the real world? Its like:

Rudeperson: I'm thirsty! JUICE!
Offendedperson:...(***? Is he on prozac or something?)

I think Kholai's point is that if you want something, ask nicely at the right moment. Don't do it while they're fighting mobs or they're busy with something. And for the love of the great lord, It never freakin hurt to say:

Can I have an end buff please?

And finish it with:

Thank you.

Its not sucking up. ITS CALLED MANNERS, PEOPLE, MANNERS.

Enough said.

[yukijin]

i agree with kholai lol.

however my policy is: if they spell out their words when asking for a buff, ill buff them on the spot even if i got 10 mobs on meh O_o. if they ask "buff plz" or even worse "buff ty" then i buff if they actually need it. i buff 1/3 of the people that say "yukujin buff me"

like i HAVE to.

[yukijin]

lol u greedy ****** its part of ur job... its like if i would say... no no no... i dont kill for u unless u pay me... plving = x s by exp... tss.. greedy and u know what :greedy people go to hell!!! im not the one to say that... je sus say haha


DemonEyeKyo

lvl 59 mage teva
lvl 51 mage bijou

im sure you'd be charging for mage debuffs too, if 3/4ths the ppl that pass you demand "debuff me"

[Rockman_Xelnia]

If a Cleric wants to charge, then by all means pay up to get it. It doesn't matter to me, however, because I'm not quick to jump up and ask for a buff. If a Cleric decides to out of nowhere give me that buff, then by all means I'm gonna thank that Cleric. Matter of fact, it happened to me earlier. I'm always spamming the vendors in Elderine that are buying Alchemy Stones for good prices and I sold one Cleric his entire demand of it and what did he do? He came out and gave me an Endure buff, so I thanked him and he said 'no, thank you' and went on about his day.

Stop being so picky about something so mediocre compared to other big issues. . . . . although I do agree with the concept of investing your money into getting a Cleric to buff you in comparison to buying scrolls.. . . I think I will keep that in mind once my good friend . . --coughcoughcoughcoughKaidaicoughcough-- finally gets that skill.

[Kholai]

ArcMichael - Perhaps to clarify "the opposed philosophy" is opposed to my own, not opposed to the mostly unspoken opposition to charging for Endure. In that context, I believe most of your questions are answered.

As for the idea that it would "make someone madder" first of all, I do not believe that it will. What can a cleric do if someone wants a buff and they don't want to cast it?
Well, they can ignore them, or they can refuse them. If you ignore them, they will become angry at being ignored, and continue to pursue. If you refuse them, they will, in many cases, start begging.
If, however, you charge them, not only are you responding to them, now it is their responsibility. If they don't want to pay 50 copper, they are the ones choosing to not pay it, so its their responsibility. Worst they can do is continue to beg, in which case you're no worse off than if you flat out refused, except now you have a solid reason of their refusal to pay, which makes it their fault. Useful psychology if nothing else.

In the end, even if they do get angry.... What exactly would they do? Train? Good luck surviving a big enough train to cause a level 47+ cleric trouble.
Tell everyone about how I charge for Endure? Awesome, then either people will leave me alone, or they'll seek me out, wanting an Endure, because Endure on demand at all is a very, very nice thing that too many people take for granted.

And yes, I'm equally sarcastic and cynical towards everyone, always. It comes with being English.

I have no comprehension of exactly what WoW entails in any shape or form. I shall assume that not only is food and drink from a wizard some manner of spell you can cast, that it is a fairly rare requirement, and that as you say, the times people ask you for it they are polite and appreciative. If so, I envy you.


DemonEyeKyo - The passage from the bible in which Jesus states difficulties in entering heaven refers to the wealthy, not the greedy. As a Christian, therefore you should sell and give up all your possessions, for then you will have treasures in Heaven. Then you can go away, for I am neither Christian nor wealthy.

As for mages not charging for killing, that's absurd. Unless mages like it being Free Allocation in their parties, which I believe is still not the case, each kill, especially at later levels, there is a sizeable chance of receiving some reward up to 700 copper in Uruga and its surrounding areas. On top of this, you are rewarded by Experience, a less tangible reward that still grants you advantages for your character.
Killing also bears a variable cost. To kill one slime is free, just hit it with your stick. To kill one enemy requires how much SP? Certainly not that much, given that the majority of mage spells cost 12 SP or less, and even less when you consider mages can recover SP near instantly and for free when a cleric is next to them.
To this end, not only is a kill more rewarding to you than casting Endure, but also cheaper. As it stands, 50 copper just about covers the cost of stones, and gives no Experience reward. Yes, buffing partymates is free regardless of situation, because helping one's party is self-interest, just like killing for your party is. Outside of party is not, and there's only one equivalent for a mage - Dispell, removing debuffs for a minor effect. Let me know when six people come up at once asking "dispell plz".

Since charging for power levelling is also commonplace, it seems that many people do charge to kill things... ho hum?



Yukijin/Balder - Exactly. If you want something, ask nicely and hope the person you're asking is in the mood to give it to you, don't tack on plz like a reluctant two year old, or worse still, demand it from them. If you're polite and patient, you might get it free, if you're rude and demanding, you'd better be willing to pay for your attitude problem.

[JerichoCrost]

I endure people for free and I gladly do... I don't get bother by it... not to mention the SP take to endure someone can easily be gain for resting in your shroom for a few seconds... Do people have to get so greedy as to start charging for endure. <___<;; Not to mention it only takes a second to endure a person and 3.0 second cool down. Heck, I can endure people while taking on mobs. So long as they ask me politely and not in a demanding tone, then free buffs! Yay everyone's happy.

[Xanthros]

lol u greedy ****** its part of ur job...

It's the job of a cleric to give away buffs to shut up whiners who don't know what the word 'no' means, or they're not attentive enough to see that we may be fighting for our lives at that very moment? I think not.

The point behind the 50c is not to be greedy, it's to prove a point that there is much value behind what is given away and that way too many take it for granted. That said, 50c is 70c cheaper (as a low-ball guesstimate) than a T1 vitality scroll alone, and the buff itself is sp and hp both, and is better than the T1 scroll in question.

It is by no means unreasonable to ask for 50c just to see who takes it for granted and who doesn't, those who truly appreciate the power of the buff wouldn't hesitate to donate 50c for a bit of the sp cost that it takes.

My .02,

X-

[JerichoCrost]

Good point Xan. I have never really looked it at that way. But I still am going to keep buffing for free... If they do want to donate please do so lol. I just want to make sure the person is asking me nicely then they'll get their buffs. I am sure they appreciate it much. I like to put myself into other's shoes so I guess I give in really easily.

[lightningmystix]

My two cents.

I'm an archer, and I love buffs.

But seriously, I can imagine if people go up to clerics yelling "omg buff me i gotta kill boss buff plz buff buuuuuuf." If someone did that to me, I'd declare war on them and run a mob train over that person >_> okay maybe I wouldn't be that bad, but I'd still get really pissed off.

Saying please and thank you to everyone gives people a good mini-ego boost. Once someone put endure on me for free and I didn't even notice until two minutes later. I still shouted out my thanks. It just feels better to be acknowledged when you get healed or buffed or revived etc. It makes you feel important. Once I saw a mage in Elderine running over this cleric going "buff me". Not even a "plz" in sight! Clerics AREN'T NPCs, they're not your supplier. And NPCs charge. Nice clerics don't, but at least give them a decent thank you.

It takes, what, 2 to 3 seconds just to type out thank you? Or maybe please? Are people that lazy just to move their fingers along the keyboard for a few seconds? >__> Charging 50c is good. I'd buy it on the spot. o_O would help my archer a lot.

[Jhanniss]

I endure people for free and I gladly do... I don't get bother by it... not to mention the SP take to endure someone can easily be gain for resting in your shroom for a few seconds... Do people have to get so greedy as to start charging for endure. <___<;; Not to mention it only takes a second to endure a person and 3.0 second cool down. Heck, I can endure people while taking on mobs. So long as they ask me politely and not in a demanding tone, then free buffs! Yay everyone's happy.


I buff people for free, but just for Jericho.. 50c. :3

LOL. I share his same view. I tend to buff folks for free (havent accepted payments yet). Most of my buffs stem from CP, MT, and the surrounding zones. Heck I even transported a certain someone from CP to Uruga without knowing who they were till later. >.>

Reaching 47 so I could cast Endure was a real exciting time for me. I've enjoyed it ever since. Buffing people is fun for me, and even though a few higher level guilds make fun of me for it, I still love to help folks.

[Springrowan]

I'm sorry, I tend not to notice that I even recieved a buff till later on when I go to heal myself and I look up and go..."wow, a higher level cleric just gave me an HP/SP buff" then my next reaction is "well, kinda useless to say thanks now, they probably left..." followed quickly by "I can't wait till I can do that buff"

and by the way, your sig rules!

[Trashknight]

In essence I can agree about charging buffs, if they are powerful that is.

Thankfully I have encountered very little of what some clerics have typed here when it comes to Fiesta.(Solstice might be different, yet they have at most demanded heal and buff in newbie-grounds. ^_^')

[Psylent]

I'm sorry, I tend not to notice that I even recieved a buff till later on when I go to heal myself and I look up and go..."wow, a higher level cleric just gave me an HP/SP buff" then my next reaction is "well, kinda useless to say thanks now, they probably left..." followed quickly by "I can't wait till I can do that buff"

and by the way, your sig rules!
If I notice later, I usually send a generic "Thanks whoever buffed me. I just noticed." shout across the zone. It may not seem like a big deal, but it gives kudos to whoever went out of their way to be nice.

I personally can't wait to get the skill, but as Kholai said, I'm going to be more likely to give out buffs to those not begging--or atleast being polite. I'm not sure I'll charge, but I can understand the frustration and don't think it's unfair. (as he said, people pay for vit & mentality scrolls...)

[Bystander]

Charge 'em 1 sp pot (tier 1) so you dont have to sit in your mushroom waiting for your sp to recharge. :D

[Nerria]

I'll still never charge no matter what! :D

The only people who don't get buffed are the hyper-active idiots who go:

"buff plz" (I don't mind plz, however)
-1 second later-
"buff nerria"
"buff plzzzzzz"

Yeah, that annoys me. As long as you have a little patience to wait for me to notice you and put some time away, I'll cast Endure.

Never will I charge for it though, just not my kind of thing. Giving buffs out for free makes me warm and fuzzy inside, and most of the time I end up (as someone just said) getting shouts across the zone of, "Thanks whoever buffed me. :)"

[Asheer]

Charge 'em 1 sp pot (tier 1) so you dont have to sit in your mushroom waiting for your sp to recharge. :D

fantastic idea:D:D


Asheer - lvl24 - Teva server

[soysauce2rice]

I thought this coz mentality and vitality tier 1 scrolls combined aren't as great as Endure skill. If i somehow manage to get to lvl 47, I'll buff everyone for no reason coz i like the cast special effects of it :]

I'm 14 lvls away though coz not many people on my friend list wanna party with me when I'm online (coz i only play this on the weekends). I'll manage D:

[Asheer]

I admit with shame that i vote before read this thread and now i see that i votet wrong (1 point).

In game i am fighter so i have a diferent perspective on mater "buffing".
First, i personaly never ask any cleric in my range of view for buffing but i am very gratefull when they suddenly heal me or give me a buff :o, and i am sorry that i sometimes forget to thanks but all you known how to be when you are engage in fight whit band of foes and paing atention to HP counter.
I personaly have two great friends cleric from Holy Shield gulid and thank to them i been able finish some important quests and for what i will be them always gratefully, and i was personally witness how oter players behavior towards them was a diplomatic says Rude.

And a little info to others: Cleric are NOT 911. ( emergency rescue squad)

That depend only to cleric if they wil give you buff or heal you when you charge a stronger as you foe, or pack of foes (gulid wars are completly diferent subject).

During my play i see most of the time when some player disapear in terytory full of stronger foes and after short time i see txt " REV !!!!![ good when give a coordinates(in oter side of map)], and when they did not recive demanded action..., or even if did there was a very few times when say "thanks".
People, being polite doesynt hurt you!!!, there is in off crazines in real world and we not need to implement them to online worlds.

But maybe i ask for too much...:confused:

Apropo SP pots, as fighter i give most of my pots to my cleric friends because i known that they will be much more usefull for them as for me :D.


Asheer lvl24 fighter - TEVA server

[JerichoCrost]

I buff people for free, but just for Jericho.. 50c. :3

LOL. I share his same view. I tend to buff folks for free (havent accepted payments yet). Most of my buffs stem from CP, MT, and the surrounding zones. Heck I even transported a certain someone from CP to Uruga without knowing who they were till later. >.>

Reaching 47 so I could cast Endure was a real exciting time for me. I've enjoyed it ever since. Buffing people is fun for me, and even though a few higher level guilds make fun of me for it, I still love to help folks.

<3 See you ingame.

[JaYasha]

Well, I suppose its fair. Afterall, its not like your sp is free.

[Semaj]

Well, I suppose its fair. Afterall, its not like your sp is free.

technically it IS free since you can just rest in your house. but charging a t1sp pot wouldnt be bad for people who are begging for a buff.

[kraehe]

What's with this sudden wanting for everyone to get paid for buffing and reviving?

[Cyrogen]

Charge for endure? Sure, if you want to sit around as an endure shop, may as well.

People more polite when having to pay? Hmmmmm.... sort of.... if I'm killing something, or standing around & recieve a buff, I will thank the person, but alot of the time I only notice the buff later, so I've missed the opportunity to thank whoever.... Trading however is unmissable by both parties, if I feel a trade was of benefit to me I will always say thanks.

I'll probably never pay for endure myself, I'll also never ask for it (except in KQ or Party), I generally don't ask for Rez either.

On the flip side, I'm not 47 yet, but when I am I will buff my party, I will buff KQ, I will buff friends, I will not randomly buff people, I will not buff people that can't spend 10 seconds to put together a complete sentence "BUFZOR PLZ!" infact I will probably ignore this type of response to the extent of being called an *** :) Or I'll respond with some wierd language I pulled from babelfish..... I will probably buff people that ask nicely. I will buff people that look like they need help.

I also don't rez anyone that isn't really close :)

[Haruhi_Suzumiya]

I made a cleric so I can help people, however I understand your point.
Even though at my rate of levelling I might not even make Level 47 :(

And yes, I may be too kind seeing as I gave away a total of 7+ silver to new players while I've never even had over 5 silver cash so far :p

It quite saddens me though that hardly anyone ever thanks you when you heal.

I quite figured it as being more because they don't notice rather than they don't want.
Because most of the time they do thank me when I Ressurect them.
Though honestly. It frustrates me more when people ask for things I obviously can't give. Like asking for res in the King slime Kingdom quest.
This is just because I don't feel like I'm of any value in my current state :(

I can ressurect now but people already start asking me for Endure while I'm only level 24.
Somehow I now feel I should have been better off keeping the money I gave to people who stopped playing only a little after I gave them money to help, and investing it to buy heal 4 or protect 2.

Helping people is a full time job. And expensive too. But if people appreciate it I feel like it's worth it.

You can keep asking money, There's nothing wrong with that.
I however will never go there.

[MohJee]

Well smart fella .. You say it will cost you six seconds to recover the used Sp. Answer this: Wouldn't it cost more than 20 seconds while you ask them to give you the money, while they agree to it, and while you are trading? Popopo

[galihad64]

Charging is not that much of an "out there" idea,and you can do it if you want but it is to much of a hassle. It is just a simple click and a keystroke and we are both on our way. Why muck it up with monetary transactions? Even if i have not been able to buff for long, it is not that bad. Could almost count on one had the number of rude people that have badgered me for buffs.

edit:
Oops, really should have gone to the end. Sorry for stealing your point MohJee ^

[Kholai]

Well smart fella .. You say it will cost you six seconds to recover the used Sp. Answer this: Wouldn't it cost more than 20 seconds while you ask them to give you the money, while they agree to it, and while you are trading? Popopo

No, really it doesn't. I've no problem playing damage assistance or healing party mates or myself whilst talking or being in trade window. One of the advantages of being a cleric is the ability to function without having to see anything but your party healthbars. And, since the goal is to get people to appreciate Endure more, and to stop badgering me about it, making them spend twenty seconds to cover my stone expenses of buffing them is perfectly fine with me, since I can keep doing whatever I was doing while they do it.

Galihad: I assume you're still not level 50 yet. Once you have that telltale weapon, and that attractive suit of armour that marks you as "buff-slave" you'll get much, much more attention than you do until that point. I entered collapsed prison yesterday, no fewer than six people all walked up to me asking for buffs. I was in a reasonable mood and about to rest up anyway, so I buffed the lot of them.
According to your statement, I get asked more often per hour than you do per day, and about half of the people that ask don't feel the need to be polite about it.

[Trashknight]

I would like to see statistics someday about how many asks Level 47+ High Clerics and below that level about getting Endure per day, and be grateful after that.

[Roseanna]

A few levels later, I figured I may as well give my new revised answer. :)

First of all, I'm level 43 and being chased for buffs already. I got followed clear across Elderine with "buff ty, buff ty" and when I responded saying I'm not high enough level for it yet... I got called a liar. I got hounded in GC for it while I was fighting yesterday... twice. And they kept persisting while I was fighting off my billion mobs and was unable to type. I stopped for stones yesterday and was whispered with a buff request. I died in robo kq and went to rumen... whispered for buffs there, too. If this is what it's like when I'm in level 40 armor, I don't wanna know what it'll be like when I get my new pants.

On the other hand, I don't think I'll charge for buffs. If it gets to be too much, I'll ask for a sp pot. I stopped to help someone the other day and he sent me a trade with 2s, which I declined and told him my reward was that he was still alive. That had me thinking, and I realized it's just not me to take money lol. But sp pots I'd take. That doesn't mean I think it's bad to charge a fair amount for the buff, it's just not my style, is all. :)

[zepheris]

Hi Kathrynne :D (Should know who I am)

BTW... Yeah charging isnt that bad... of coure, i would pay 50c for that buff. :D I wish someone would do that to me when i was low level. :D When i was still hunting KM and ZK and Treasures.

It lasts an hour, for 400+ SP and HP.

However, i finaly got my buff skill yesterday, and buffed almost everyone i see. Most people didnt thank me for it, but for the few that did, i appreciated it. Those who didnt probably didnt becasue they never did ask for one. :D

Well.. to respond, thats not a bad idea. However, as for me.. i'll stick to giving buffs to those who ask, and those i know.

Reason?

1... When they ask, they will THANK YOU
2... Your friends will always THANK YOU

Sounds reasonable? :P

[ddmatrix]

Hi Kathrynne (Should know who I am)

BTW... Yeah charging isnt that bad... of coure, i would pay 50c for that buff. :D I wish someone would do that to me when i was low level. When i was still hunting KM and ZK and Treasures.

It lasts an hour, for 400+ SP and HP.

However, i finaly got my buff skill yesterday, and buffed almost everyone i see. Most people didnt thank me for it, but for the few that did, i appreciated it. Those who didnt probably didnt becasue they never did ask for one.

Well.. to respond, thats not a bad idea. However, as for me.. i'll stick to giving buffs to those who ask, and those i know.

Reason?

1... When they ask, they will THANK YOU
2... Your friends will always THANK YOU

Sounds reasonable? :P


Hi ZEPH and KAT!

I confirm that when Zeph got her buffing skill, she was buffing EVERYONE that was in her viewing field as if she was a buffing bot :P (i got the first buff from her tough!)

But yeah, ppl do come and see me for buff all the time (even tough I am only level 45 and cannot buff).

Untill now, i never died or it caused me any inconvenience yet. But it might i suppose at higher levels. For now, when someones ask me, I just cast the "poison resist" spell on them :P When they ask again, I say: I cannot do it yet, check my own buffs (if i don't have the buff myself). Until now, they all said, nvm or something like that. For me, its more funny than anything else. If they ask for more, I will probably cast that spell again and again, and ask them "is that enough? Do you want more?". They usually laugh and runs away LOL

But as Kholai says, it might not be as funny when I reach level 50. I guess I will see...

As for charging? Not sure about that... I rather get an SP pot. But for friends, no question ask, i will buff them for free :) Especially if they are treasure haunting :P

Last thing: If you give the buff to someone (that did not ask for it) and they don't TY, sometimes, it could means they have not notice it... until later. It happens to me all the time, I turn away... then turn back... Oh I HAVE ENDURE!... but have no idea who buffed me.... So TY too all that buffed me without me knowing :) TYTYTY

[Nickthehero]

Waht will you do if you ask someone to pay for it and they refuse?

[Kholai]

Waht will you do if you ask someone to pay for it and they refuse?

Not buff them, and save my time and money. Not an overly difficult proposition that one.

[Roseanna]

Hi zeph AND pyros! LOL too funny!

My noob gear when I'm not fighting has solved the whisper and getting chased issue. ;) I get a kick out of it with my donkey anyway, since it almost looks like horseback riding kind of clothes. I don't mind too much when people ask me now since it's not so constant, as long as they don't then call me a liar or chase me across town or get impatient when I don't type back right away because I'm fighting. I just say I'm 4 levels away and give them the poison buff, and say "that's all I've got." Before it was just getting annoying because it was every single time I went in a town, and getting followed.

Oh just wait til I hit 47. I'm gonna be in FoM buffing for the job change quest... and on the storage steps... and... and... and... hehehe. And naturally, friends and guildmates will always be buffed when I see them. And random people for the fun of it sometimes. It's gonna be so cool. :D I'm just gonna miss doing robo KQ with my friends.