Have U'll Ever Try Full End

[Tibrado]

have any mage ever try full END ..........just wondering how that turned out :P

[The-Sakura]

I'm trying half end right now.
So far, working only so so
Then again, havn't gotten too far on it.
I'll keep you updated.

[Summit]

I know someone has done 45 End , 14 int or something and it doesnt really add up past 30 end because the % you recieve drops too much to save a mages bum.

[Finalplayer_Ryu]

I know someone has done 45 End , 14 int or something and it doesnt really add up past 30 end because the % you recieve drops too much to save a mages bum.

What do you mean with "bum"?

[SexyBeast12]

"bum" = butt.

[Tibrado]

ty...was just checking

[Donutz]

the % as in block? or def and hp??

[byob3413]

have any mage ever try full END ..........just wondering how that turned out :P


i have a lvl 47 mage right now, its pretty much pwnage. My def and hp is alot higher then other mages, so i own mages that are lvl 50+ even. And when you get to lvl 40+ mages are pretty much better then the other classes.

[madrid951]

Yes pure END works great i think!
Im the main tanker in lot of things i do

[Setokira]

i have a lvl 47 mage right now, its pretty much pwnage. My def and hp is alot higher then other mages, so i own mages that are lvl 50+ even. And when you get to lvl 40+ mages are pretty much better then the other classes.

Ey hey does this sound as a plan for my mage, id like him to have 15end and 25srp the rest int and itn gear, u think i have enough end. Personally i belive it helping but i wonder if more would be worth the scrafice in power?

[pureshok]

I'm def going End End/spr to be exact. The damage bonus you get from int is pretty lame imo compared to all the bonuses u get from END and SPR. I'm going to get spr to 25, then END all the way. Getting me some good def and magic def, some crits, and nice hp. After that I'll go for pure INT/Crit equips since equips give more int damage then the actual stat, and focus on enchanting my armors and weapons for more def and attack. I should have a pretty sturdy mage with a nice large mana pool and with proper training be able to solo aoe :D

[Firemind]

I should have a pretty sturdy mage with a nice large mana pool and with proper training be able to solo aoe :D

O.o I don't think u can not solo aoe no matter how many points you put to end. Let's say with your endurance and some scrolls you get to endure up to 10 hits before dying. If you get 5 mobs it takes them 3 seconds to kill you, and mana burst cooldown is 5 secs and you probably need 6-7 casts of it to kill them since you are end and your damage is not that great.

I think END mages are just like STR clerics, designed to solo but no point in party since they don't add what they are expected to add HIGH DAMAGE, even if INT bonus damage is lame, which it is, it's always better than a very bad tank and that's what an END mage will become in my opinion.

[Summon]

O.o I don't think u can not solo aoe no matter how many points you put to end. Let's say with your endurance and some scrolls you get to endure up to 10 hits before dying. If you get 5 mobs it takes them 3 seconds to kill you, and mana burst cooldown is 5 secs and you probably need 6-7 casts of it to kill them since you are end and your damage is not that great.

I think END mages are just like STR clerics, designed to solo but no point in party since they don't add what they are expected to add HIGH DAMAGE, even if INT bonus damage is lame, which it is, it's always better than a very bad tank and that's what an END mage will become in my opinion. The problem is, that you're looking at things as if the level cap will remain lvl 59 forever. Enchanters get ungodly AoE's at much higher levels. plus, imagine a Full End enchanter at level 100 with all +End gear and +End jewlery with a vitality scroll tier 1, 2, or even 3, and a good hp/sp buff. Mages get the best AoE skills in this game.

[byob3413]

Ey hey does this sound as a plan for my mage, id like him to have 15end and 25srp the rest int and itn gear, u think i have enough end. Personally i belive it helping but i wonder if more would be worth the scrafice in power?


I don't really sacrifice any power, because the int is kinda bugged right now, but anyway i wouldn't do that. When you do that its only gonna give you a little extra defense, and hp. If your gonna do it atleast go to 35 then do the rest int/spr.


I don't sacrifice any power just use a really good weapon I have pwoer wand[+8]. Also what helps is if you get enchanted armor. I have full mage lvl 40[+6] armor lol. I get so much more defense because its enchanted.

[Firemind]

The problem is, that you're looking at things as if the level cap will remain lvl 59 forever. Enchanters get ungodly AoE's at much higher levels. plus, imagine a Full End enchanter at level 100 with all +End gear and +End jewlery with a vitality scroll tier 1, 2, or even 3, and a good hp/sp buff. Mages get the best AoE skills in this game.

We are talking about aoe soloing. That means tanking 5+ monsters hiting you at the same time. Not even a warrior of similar level to mobs can do that, he needs a cleric to heal him, and that's when 2-3 mages are aoeing. How is a mage no mater how much endurance he has do better :confused: ?

[Tasuke]

In my opinion...

Mages are supposed to be the damage dealer, not the tanker. Mages don't have any kind of taunt to keep the mob on him/her and also will still have the lowest HP when compared with a Fighter or Cleric.

INT mages hit up to around 250-300 on High level mobs. END mages probably would only do half of that.

In parties, people would choose archers over END mages.

Also, considering if you went full end up to level 45. You would have END (+50).

That would = (+250 HP, +5% block rate, +25 DEF), which isn't that great of a boost for mages since they already have low HP and DEF and can't block without a shield. An INT mage who used a tier1 vitality scroll and a tier1 defense scroll almost equals that +50 points you put into your END.

I have no idea what an END mage is good at. It's almost like comparing to a Fighter that went full DEX.

[pureshok]

We are talking about aoe soloing. That means tanking 5+ monsters hiting you at the same time. Not even a warrior of similar level to mobs can do that, he needs a cleric to heal him, and that's when 2-3 mages are aoeing. How is a mage no mater how much endurance he has do better :confused: ?

You'd just have to pick monsters which wouldnt kill you easily. Why grab 5+ if your gonna die? Grab 3 or so and keep going. With enchanted armor and pure int equips you would do just fine.

[pureshok]

In my opinion...

Mages are supposed to be the damage dealer, not the tanker. Mages don't have any kind of taunt to keep the mob on him/her and also will still have the lowest HP when compared with a Fighter or Cleric.

INT mages hit up to around 250-300 on High level mobs. END mages probably would only do half of that.

In parties, people would choose archers over END mages.

Also, considering if you went full end up to level 45. You would have END (+50).

That would = (+250 HP, +5% block rate, +25 DEF), which isn't that great of a boost for mages since they already have low HP and DEF and can't block without a shield. An INT mage who used a tier1 vitality scroll and a tier1 defense scroll almost equals that +50 points you put into your END.

I have no idea what an END mage is good at. It's almost like comparing to a Fighter that went full DEX.

End mages would do 50 less damage then that lol 200-250, because the Int modfier is way weaker then the + int modifer. So sure a extra 50 damage per hit is nice, but it isnt that great imo. 250+ hp and 25 def would pretty much take care of that no problem. Simply boosting up your weapon and going full Int gears would give you nice damage. Also the END mage would also use a vit and def scroll. So that def would be boosted even more.

Easy 450 extra hp at all times, 65 bonus def at all times too. Then add in your nice enchanted armor and the def bonus is huge.

[Summon]

End mages would do 50 less damage then that lol 200-250, because the Int modfier is way weaker then the + int modifer. So sure a extra 50 damage per hit is nice, but it isnt that great imo. 250+ hp and 25 def would pretty much take care of that no problem. Simply boosting up your weapon and going full Int gears would give you nice damage. Also the END mage would also use a vit and def scroll. So that def would be boosted even more.

Easy 450 extra hp at all times, 65 bonus def at all times too. Then add in your nice enchanted armor and the def bonus is huge.

Not only that, but at the much higher levels, no one even goes out to solo without getting a quick Hp/Sp buff from a level 47+ highcleric anyways.

[Sheizou_Marizou]

I don't understand why any mage worth his salt would have a single point of end at all. Mages are supposed to do damage for a party.

[Summon]

I don't understand why any mage worth his salt would have a single point of end at all. Mages are supposed to do damage for a party.

Mages naturally do the most damage per hit despite any stat points.

[Firemind]

Well only point completly clear is that free stat points aren't great at all, haha. Probably a FULL STR mage would still be playable and be able to kill a yellow mob after a couple of hours with his bare hands xD. U say +50 damage isn't that great, I prefer that to +25 def, 250Hp & +5% block rate: +25 def is a shield scroll, 250 Hp a vitality scroll and 5% bloc is nothing since you won't be using a shield, I prefer the +50 damage, but if you like END go ahead u can always stack the scrolls on your END bonus.

[Summon]

Here's some food for thought.

If mages were made to be weak fragile little girls, then why are they given the best AoE skills in the game? An AoE is completely useless if you can't handle more than one mob at a time. Perhaps it was poor planning on the developers part, or perhaps there is an actual reason behind it. I assume that this issue of "whether a full END mage/enchanter is worth making" will be resolved once the lvlcap is raised higher. and more stat points and better gear and weapon bonuses are available.

[byob3413]

I have a lvl 48 END pure mage. And it it pwnage. Yes in the end i do 50 less damage then the full int mages but i have +250hp and +25 def over them. I put the money i dont waste on pots that they do, on a better weapon. My weapon gives +286, thats a little over 50.

I win, they fail deal with it.

[Tasuke]

I have a lvl 48 END pure mage. And it it pwnage. Yes in the end i do 50 less damage then the full int mages but i have +250hp and +25 def over them. I put the money i dont waste on pots that they do, on a better weapon. My weapon gives +286, thats a little over 50.

I win, they fail deal with it.

I'm talking about builds, not your weapon. Even if you were to consider talking about how your weapon makes up for it's damage, it's like saying hey, let's give that pure INT mage all +9 equips to make up for defense loss.

Anyway..
Comparing builds with a END mage and INT mage... the END mage seems to be more of a solo type.

I really don't see the point though, INT mages die in like 4 hits, END mages die in like 6 hits. In my opinion, it's a waste.

[Firemind]

I agree completly Tasuke, END mage is like STR cleric, they may be good for solo but no point in party. An INT mage is real owning in party when someone takes care of him/her.

In a typical aoe party of 1 cleric, 1 tank & 3 mages you want INT mages since they shouldn't be geting any hits anyway, and the faster you kill the faster you level up.

[Setokira]

hmm... yea i guess Your right, heck ill just go 25 spr and FULL int and int gear. Also, enchanting IS NOT RANDOM. It is preselcted, there is a time when the sucess rate is high and cahnce for Enchanment r good, some one needs to find out when this time is, share it only with mages, so we can enchant r armor and then with fully encahnted armor and weps, we'll rule. Thd def bouns from armor will allow us to maybe party with each other or solo, and the extra power for the enchanted wep will makes us SOO powerful. Really some one rich buy a lvl1 wep and test out times and days when u enchant ur wepon to higher lvls, the day and time when u get like 2 or more 7+enchanments will most likely be the best time to enchant. As i've said, enchantment is not random, there is a time when it best to enchant. We mages eed to find that time!

Also INT RULES, an a little extra spr will help u use ur Aoe tech more.

YEA INT INT INT. Let the power CONTROL YOU!! :cool:

[Rogil]

lol. well my mage. has 50 int. rest end. and i have a tk staff thats 22 end and int. well it works out fine. i have 500+ def with no buffs just scrolls. um im around 2k hp and ya end is a must for a mage.

[Setokira]

i disagree a little end is good maybe but alot of end takes the point of being a mage away, i doubt u can nuke like other mages do, also parties would rather have a int mage with alot fo power than u, u may be good for soloing but thats about it,

[Haiyastan]

we as mages have really poor def and all and we have to finish off a monster quickly before it reaches us. Leave END for people who carry a shield and be a mage for chirs' sake. Mages r not buff dudes like fighters we r nerds and outcasts of society so please act like one

[Raptorg]

atm i'm level 20 with 4/15/5(end/int/spr) and quite frankly i'm not really happy with it(i know there's a point missing, i've accidently put one point in dex when i wanted to put it in end :p) the health and defence are quire insignificant, so i stopped stacking end and started putting points in int like a madman

but maybe that's just because i have so little bonus end :/

[nerdzo]

end adds 0.5 def, 5 hp and 0.1% block (1~50). so let's say ur lvl 35, and u have 40 free stat points. if u add all into end, u'll get 20def, 200hp and 4% block. u can easily get more than 20 def with a shield increase teir 1 scroll, and 200hp with a teir 1 vit scroll. so how is going full end worth the decrease in power.

[Raptorg]

end adds 0.5 def, 5 hp and 0.1% block (1~50). so let's say ur lvl 35, and u have 40 free stat points. if u add all into end, u'll get 20def, 200hp and 4% block. u can easily get more than 20 def with a shield increase teir 1 scroll, and 200hp with a teir 1 vit scroll. so how is going full end worth the decrease in power.

forgot to mention you can't block without a shield(which mages can't wear)

at least i heard you couldn't, i'm actually not sure

[pureshok]

atm i'm level 20 with 4/15/5(end/int/spr) and quite frankly i'm not really happy with it(i know there's a point missing, i've accidently put one point in dex when i wanted to put it in end :p) the health and defence are quire insignificant, so i stopped stacking end and started putting points in int like a madman

but maybe that's just because i have so little bonus end :/

Its because your end bonus sucks. You need more to feel the diff, its like putting 4 int on and complaining the damage bonus isnt high enough.

[pureshok]

end adds 0.5 def, 5 hp and 0.1% block (1~50). so let's say ur lvl 35, and u have 40 free stat points. if u add all into end, u'll get 20def, 200hp and 4% block. u can easily get more than 20 def with a shield increase teir 1 scroll, and 200hp with a teir 1 vit scroll. so how is going full end worth the decrease in power.

Because with end you would ALSO use a def scroll for a total of +49 def with the end scroll, and a vit scroll for 400 more hp. You would get hit a good 20 points less, and have 200 more hp too boot. And all you lose is a measly 30 damage more per hit?

End mages are the pvp mages of the future. Once you buff up all that end add in the tier 2 and 3 def and vit scrolls, and do well with getting that armor to +4-9+ Your notice that though you hit a bit weaker you have tons more def. Find a green weapon and get one with int end and spr and you will feel it even more.

For me I'm doign 25 spr/ then full end. What it will do is help me hit a 10% crit rate+ have tons of magic and phy def.

Int mages: Yea I will hit lower then the full int mages, but when it comes time to fight int mages will get pwned simply because they dont have the hp to survive. It will take them 5 hits before I start feeling their 50 damage bonus, while I'll have a better chance to crit which means on a tiny hp mage death. In a 1 vs 1 fight the pure int mage loses.

[Setokira]

Yea man go thats the way im going, a hybird mage hitting like408dmg wid mm1 hits 300less damge per than a full int mage wid mm1 438dmg like 20 hits, with the one critcal hit affed in, but if u get a little luckyer and get 2 crtical hits u'll do 500more damge

[Donutz]

personally as a cleric, I wouldnt mind partying with an end mage, sure they do less dmg but when I go heal another party member I dont have to worry about the mage dieing on my in the 3 sec it takes to cooldown heal, 1 or 2 hits makes a huge difference in my opinion

[AnimeFans009]

Int mages: Yea I will hit lower then the full int mages, but when it comes time to fight int mages will get pwned simply because they dont have the hp to survive. It will take them 5 hits before I start feeling their 50 damage bonus, while I'll have a better chance to crit which means on a tiny hp mage death. In a 1 vs 1 fight the pure int mage loses.

Better chance doesnt always mean u will do crit more often than pure int mage see. With no crit, u will be counted more or less wasted ur skill points on spr. And if lady luck is siding on the FULL INT mage instead, his damage will be much much higher. For me, i prefer not relying on my luck but rely on my skill. INT ALL THE WAY :)

[Areofreez]

i m 75% end and i fare good actually. i m lvl 35 now and i can tank a harken all by myself. some other mages think its stupid but when they pvp with me i can easily defeat them cause i can last longer in battle :D

[sorsorday]

I agree completly Tasuke, END mage is like STR cleric, they may be good for solo but no point in party. An INT mage is real owning in party when someone takes care of him/her.

In a typical aoe party of 1 cleric, 1 tank & 3 mages you want INT mages since they shouldn't be geting any hits anyway, and the faster you kill the faster you level up.

imo, end mage is good for solo and pvp, simply because it has more time to take stones and being undead is the key in solo and pvp.

In an "ideal" party, tank will get all the monsters and no one else get hit in the party. However, good tanks are not everywhere. And as ppl may notice, a full str archer always OT even with a good tank keep mock and kick. I seldom see a mage OT tho but a full int or int/spr mage has much more chance than the end mage to OT. Also, in aoe party, mage is very easy to die, magic burst just has too much damage and too short cd to let the figher getting enough aggro. Hence, as a party member, end mage is not a bad choice, either.

By the way for ppl who said int is buggy or something, you are wrong...free stat int add 1 damage to monster despite of the monster's defence, not the damage you see in character screen. The +int item only add damage in the character screen, the actual damage on monster will be modified by monster's defense and lv's. So free stat int is more effective than the int added by items.

[pureshok]

Better chance doesnt always mean u will do crit more often than pure int mage see. With no crit, u will be counted more or less wasted ur skill points on spr. And if lady luck is siding on the FULL INT mage instead, his damage will be much much higher. For me, i prefer not relying on my luck but rely on my skill. INT ALL THE WAY :)

much much? at best he hits me 50 more damage per hit - my increased magic def from 25 spr added on to my 255 bonus hp not to mention my pure end gear hp. I dont see that as anything more then a tickle.

[agnorak]

i think putting in end is a waste.
you can tank fine without it and do more dmg with pure int in the long run.

for example:
2 clerics 1 pure int mage.

Pros: Super fast kills and more loot :3 , clerics NEVER get aggro, no death, No down time. (since mages can pull with mm, you just have to find good spawn point. can pull mobs indefinitely.)

Cons: eat stones like mad (unless you set mp reduction on aoe,)

heres a screenie. we were pulling 4-5 mobs constantly getting mad exp, i think lyds gained 6+ lvls for that exp event. made 20+ silver after each stone run and thats minus the cost for stones already.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1318/screenshot218tq3.jpg

now if i had my orc license lvled or +x my wand and gear it would be better but w/e.




btw what ever happened to Noose :confused::confused:

[The-Sakura]

As many people have said, it is only good for soloing.
They are, however, wrong! ^.^

I am a mage. 70% of my points go to END, 30% to INT.
It works amazing, the extra hitpoints can easily be converted into SP by use of lifetap, so that cancles out any put into sp arguments.
The INT is whenever I get a 4 INT from a level instead of 5- I usually get 5, so I pump alot into hitpoints.
The added hitpoints AND defence are quite useful I have found, as when out even in a party, I get hit at times.
Most mages would get killed, but I can take the hit, and keep on going- to the point where I have tanked Orcs at level 33 mage.
The END is DEFINATLY the way to go- I recomend it highly.

[sorsorday]

i think putting in end is a waste.
you can tank fine without it and do more dmg with pure int in the long run.

for example:
2 clerics 1 pure int mage.

Pros: Super fast kills and more loot :3 , clerics NEVER get aggro, no death, No down time. (since mages can pull with mm, you just have to find good spawn point. can pull mobs indefinitely.)

Cons: eat stones like mad (unless you set mp reduction on aoe,)

heres a screenie. we were pulling 4-5 mobs constantly getting mad exp, i think lyds gained 6+ lvls for that exp event. made 20+ silver after each stone run and thats minus the cost for stones already.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1318/screenshot218tq3.jpg

now if i had my orc license lvled or +x my wand and gear it would be better but w/e.




btw what ever happened to Noose :confused::confused:

Can you tell me how long does it take to kill those 4 monsters? I think your average damage is 300 and orc has 3500 hp. Assume you add 5 points to magic burst cd that make it 4sec cd. It takes about (3500/300)*4~45 secs to kill the mobs. A party with one cleric one archer takes about 50 or less secs to kill 4 mobs (pull 1-2 at a time, not aoe, 2 is accident actually...). I didn't even mention the time of pulling 4 monsters and getting stunned. Ops. I should not compare archer and mage in this thread...

Can you tell me how you get 2000 hp? I saw a lv54 mage with buff is only 14xx hp. Are you using extender or tier3 hp scroll by any chance?

[Tibrado]

i belive in makeing ur weakness ur best weapon ..personaly i have 20 points on end and the rest on int i could solo 1 trumpy at a time and take atleast 4 blue ones with a cleric max ..... my guess is that i will start working back on my end when i get 100 points on int..........but there is kinder not much point of putting points on end cause we have no shield to block .....:( and with 20 end i have 10+ def and 100 more HP

[KireiYosei]

I too think END on a mage is pointless. Unless you plan on soloing the majority of the time, but whats the fun in that? Its an MMO! Mages clearly weren't intended to tank, so... why try to turn them into one? If they were, they'd give us a mock and more defense.

I say work a class the way it was intended.

[The-Sakura]

Alrighties, from my experiment with END(I went to 15 end points)
IT WORKS WELL

More times then I can county I have been reduced to less thens 200 healthies- in other words, the defensy and the healthy the END hash givens me hash saved my lifey more times then I can counts.
It ish a VERY good idea- I recomends it.
Now that I have good END to save mes, I ish working on my SPR (M. Deffy, crit +, and SP increase ^.^) and my INT ish at 25.
I kill mobbies my level in 5 hitties like thish, and I can go for a LONG time before needing to shroomy or find a Hammer-thingy-slave

Ish good.

Another notey, Lotsh of people say "oh, your DD, dun tank"- wells... what happens when I pully aggro? Hmmmm?
The end hash saved me sooo many times when I've pulled aggry.

[Kholai]

A full endurance mage beating an int/spr mage of equal level in PvP? That's cute. Level 60 hybrids pick up a +5% crit rate, and 50 int gives them +60 damage every single hit that ignores m.def. Give the mage another 25 spirit for their beloved crits, and 50 Endurance gives 250 HP and does not reduce magic damage by squat. Both have Endure for +570 HP, both have a vit 1 for +770 HP total.

2000 HP for hybrid, 2250 for endurance mage?

Average of 100 base magic damage a shot = 20 hits to kill the hybrid, 15 to kill the endurance mage.
Average of 200 base magic damage a shot = 10 hits to kill the hybrid, 9 to kill the endurance mage.
Average of 300 base magic damage a shot = 7 hits to kill the hybrid, 7 to kill the endurance mage.
Average of 400 base magic damage a shot = 5 hits to kill the hybrid, 5 to kill the endurance mage.
Average of 600 base magic damage a shot = 4 hits to kill the hybrid, 4 to kill the endurance mage.
Average of 900 base magic damage a shot = 3 hits to kill the hybrid, 3 to kill the endurance mage.

It's not until you're dealing an average of 1000 damage every hit that the endurance mage actually outlasts a hybrid. Rest of the time, they actually have the edge in damage and survivability because your damage is that poor.


And Sakura, effected speech impediments are neither endearing, nor cute. Especially in written form. Try English, it's much better.

[-Leona-]

I think full int mages rock @_@, hyoree is full INT and she impresses me every time i party with her @_@ WOWZERS.


Sorry mol, u can't impress me even if u would be 2 times stronger than a full int, but not cuz u don't rock but because we party so much that we came to know each other to darn well :D, i bet u feel the same :D

WHEN u party with someone every day u don't realize what you have till the moment you need that person and he/she is not there for you, that is what happens when u r not online @_@ many times i end up AoEing without mage, and ending up saying "Molick where the heck are you =P"

[Ometeotl]

here's my opinion on this, and i'll try to rationalize it as much as I can

I see only 2 viable builds for mages currently - 25spr/rest int, or 25spr/rest end. Dex isnt necessary because aim scrolls pretty much cover that, and 25 spr is essential because a good mage depends on criticals. With the abundance of green statted equips nowadays, int and end can easily be made up by equips, but the critical bonus given by adding stat points to spr cannot. Having a +9 weapon and a massive critical rate is the easiest way to overcome fighters and clerics in pvp.

Having said that lets look at the main question of this topic: int or end. I think this depends heavily on your level, purchasing power, and style of play. At low levels int is probably the best way to go, you really don't need end at this point. However if you are in this for the long run, my guideline is go end if and only if you can +9 all, or near to all of your armor, and have the knowledge of how tanking works. First i will consider this from a PvM point of view.
The main benefit of adding to end is not defense, which can be easily surpassed by party buffs and armor enhancement, but rather the hp bonus. I also doubt that defense provides a linear reduction in damage. Granted, hp extenders and Endure can provide a large boost, but it might not be sufficient in some cases. Having a couple more hundred hp, supported by your enhanced armor, will allow safer and more effective tanking by giving more time for stoning/potting cycles.
I do not consider taking ~4 general type mobs, supported by clerics, as tanking - in present conditions pulling mobs singly using mm1 is too slow. When i speak of tanking i mean gathering mobs using a mover for aoeing, or holding the full attention of bosses. Thus you can still 'tank' as int, but the difference between you and end is you might only be able to handle 4 trumpies, but end may take on 8 trumpies per pull. Tanking major bosses is also a very different situation from other mobs, one example is minidragon. That couple of hundred more hp will mean the difference between surviving the next stomp or fire breath aoe attack, or when crowded by spawns. In kq situations it might mean the difference between success or failure. With CS items it is definitely possible for a mage to tank minidragon.
So what about int? More damage is always good, and even though the comparative increase with regards to total damage might not be great, int is still the safest place to put your points in. 90% of the time as an int mage there is no difficulty in picking your target. In a full party with a good tanker and clerics an int mage has the easiest job(except maybe on the fingers). Putting points in end doesnt just mean that safety margin of life -- it means you want to take a more active role in your party, to take over as tank, or off tank when main tank fails. It means you have to know when to burst/nova to grab aggro, when and where to aoe, where to position yourself to maximise other's aoe/devastates, how to tab and strike fast on single mobs threatening your cleric/dd in between your aoe cooldowns, when to stone/pot during your aoe cycles, etc etc. It means a whole collection of things that you in your role as tank mage has to learn, and you'd better learn it well, or else that endurance is as useless to you as strength.

Looking at the PvP side, an end mage may be better against all other classes, but in no way will he be superior to an equivalent int hybrid mage. One major reason for this is that armor enhancement only increases physical defense. My concept for the end mage relies on this heavily boosted defense rating. With equivalent magical defense, an int mage's superior firepower(taking into account criticals) makes the additional hp that an end mage has, an insignificant advantage.

[catagon]

i suggest going full int. y tank a monster when u can kill it bef4 it reaches u? same thing for pvp, ur gonna start atking from a distance and by the time they reach u they either get owned, run cause they dont wanna waste a bunch of stones, or both ^^.

[Deedolith]

Ometeotl, you're taking into consideration not only your stat build, but also you armors and weapon build.
Now remove the armors and weapons from the equation, assume int/spr and end/spr mages have the same lvl, armors, weapon and redo your testing. I'm not sure that the difference is as huge as you describe it.

[Tibrado]

GUYS THINK OF AN END MAGE AS A LONG TERM THING BY LVL 65 THEY WILL HAVE 400 EXTRA HP AND 40 DEF



A full endurance mage beating an int/spr mage of equal level in PvP? That's cute. Level 60 hybrids pick up a +5% crit rate, and 50 int gives them +60 damage every single hit that ignores m.def. Give the mage another 25 spirit for their beloved crits, and 50 Endurance gives 250 HP and does not reduce magic damage by squat. Both have Endure for +570 HP, both have a vit 1 for +770 HP total.

:/ ok Kolai good point but u fail to realize that every mage has a different fighting style and to put into factor "Green items" .........


KEEP IN MIND THAT THERE ARE NO GREEN ITEMS INVOLVED AND ALL MAGES HAS THE SAME SKILL LVL60


An END mage would own an int mage while a SPR mage would own an END mage ......... it's like this...... it's true that an int mage would do more dmg regardless of M.def but an End mage would have extra Hp to make up the dmg........keep in mind both mages would b spamiming pots and stones... being that the INT mage has less HP and would b useing the most HP items in the list amount of time ..where as there will always b an opening for the INT mage to die ...


END vs SPR mage would b way different ....the SPR mage is doing major and plus critics to the END mage while the END mages attack is 1/2 or 1/3 dmg of the SPR mage's.......Being that u never no when u will do a critic an END would just lets his guard down and get pwn with 1 hit



INT vs SPR ....the fact is that SPR mages fight on luck it's not evey time someone is lucky enought to do a critic ..even if u'll do have high M.def an INT mage would still b doing 1/2 or 1/3 of ur dmg plus (free stat dmg) which would have an SPR mage praying for a lil luck



--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hybrids..........could own all types of END,INT and SPR mages .......so i will make my own mage to combat ur Hybrid .....lets call it { DM = Death Mage} :P


NOTE : i am full int for now

Death Mage Built---- 20END 30SPR and all the rest INT (which at my lvl would b around 30int) >>>>so a dead mage stats should always b like this 2:3:3............my crazy mage could take on urs any time being that i have the most HP ..most M.def.. and plus for every free stat dmg u do all i have to do is 1 critic to make up for it ......and with my extra HP and M.def it will make up for the 25 (free stat dmg) u do on me and more :D ya it sounds silly :eek:kinder sounds cool i think i will build my self like that ....heehee





NOTE:: IT ALL DEPENDS ON UR SKILLS AND HOW U USE THEM.. U COULD B ANYONE OF THESE MAGES AND OWN ANY MAGE

[PumaMaster123]

... Buy green end gear. leave the free stats for what the mages free stats are good for. By lvl 65 you get 400 hp and 40 defense? hm... lets see. 80 end on items do the exact same thing, because you get NO bonus from free stat if you END your mage. No block, nothing. get end gear. Pump an int mage and buy end rings and whatever else you want end.

BTW: Pots//Stones in PvP make you RELY on crits to win. Seriously. Unless you run out of one or the other. Hybrid// spr is the way to go for pvp

[darknessprevails]

it really depends on what your trying to do. full end is great for soloing, but if your planning on being a damage dealer for parties than i would go full int.

[Tibrado]

... Buy green end gear. leave the free stats for what the mages free stats are good for. By lvl 65 you get 400 hp and 40 defense? hm... lets see. 80 end on items do the exact same thing, because you get NO bonus from free stat if you END your mage. No block, nothing. get end gear. Pump an int mage and buy end rings and whatever else you want end.

BTW: Pots//Stones in PvP make you RELY on crits to win. Seriously. Unless you run out of one or the other. Hybrid// spr is the way to go for pvp

FYI:: sameway an int mage could wear green armor an end mage could do the same,...... u are only think of the scenario on one side.........think about it with both mages have the same items on

though i have not proven me facts ..but i belive a 2:3:3 would be able to pwn a hybrid

[lightningmystix]

COUGH.

I don't play a mage, but

How can an END mage own an INT mage? I would say the opposite. END doesn't protect against INT, SPR does.
In return, the INT mage would get owned by the SPR mage.

[ScoobyDoo]

FULL END mage *cough
I think u choose wrong class, u suppose to build fighter with end not mage
and one more i am totally disagree if u said END mage own INT
that just make no sense at all
Mage never attack ur end, they attack ur spr M.def
and u said u got extra hp ? thats just useless at all ur m.def is lame
Why we must add more 100 hp meanwhile with that point we can be more stronger ???

ScoobyDoo
Lvl7x-Powerfull Enchanter
BusouRenkin -Teva
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7229/coverqj0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Leens]

I never maxed my END, but right now my mage is a hybrid and she's quite good. To make up for the END loss, I have a green staff, boots and earrings that boost END. END might not be teh most helpful, but the extra END boost does let my mage survive longer in battles.

[Canboy]

Uh huh curently I have 20 ENDim lvl 35 with 14 int and 5 SPr or something...
Im regretting the END. Not worth it that extra 100 hp 2 hit max extra which doesnt take that long. Id prefer 25 SPR whereas the monsters will probably die from hte Extra crit. With a good warrior tank. End is pointless.

[Liala]

-A note from your local neighborhood Enchanter -


Just say NO to END.

This is your mage :D - "w00t I pwn!"
This is your mage with end :( - "waaa I got pwned"
any questions? :confused:

[The-Sakura]

Wellies, with chanted +9 mage toppy and 15 end, I tank for aoe parties, can bring lotsh of mobs, and hold the aggro
For orangy-down mobs that ish

[Past_Mourning]

Wellies, with chanted +9 mage toppy and 15 end, I tank for aoe parties, can bring lotsh of mobs, and hold the aggro
For orangy-down mobs that ish

Your post... hurt my eyes and melted my brain... WHAT?!.. lol.. you people stop speaking english when you get to talking about builds some times. I keep thinking I am on the wrong forum readng about WoW.. aggro.. DOTs... *sighs* Fiesta needs its own lingo!

[Past_Mourning]

Alright time for the noob to do a little catch-up work, explain this to me.

Green items that increase your spirit do not increase your crit chance do they?

A item that increases your int by 10 would not increase your damage by as much as putting 10 points into INT?

[Past_Mourning]

Sorry, I am doing this one post at a time.

I hear a few ideas out there. I do not like the idea of a END mage, as cool as this might sound, per hit damage from a pure INT mage sounds like it would be way to high for a pure END mage to handle while the END mages damage on splls would be rather lame. This much reminds me of my high con Wiz/PM spamming isaacs. Tons of HPs, lots of resist and high damage from spamming the most over powered spell in the game. Thing is this isnt a Wiz/PM, your def will still be lame because your a mage, your damage will be lame because your INT will be low, and you M.Def will be low because of low spirit. Your will be a mage without its most important thing... damage. All a mage is is damage. Taking it or dishing it out. :p But again, this is coming from a noob. Then again I see how long this game has been out, I would even call the Bata Testers out there NooBs plain and simple. Once you have played this game as long as I played NWN you will no longer be a noob. (6 Years and counting)

Now, on to spirit mages. These have alot going for them imo, more than END mages anyway. While End and INT mages will be suffering fom the same problem, low SP, spirit mages will have SP hand over fist. Then theres the high crit chance. But this brings me to another problem I see in these builds, for the high crit chance to work it seems to me for it to realy be worth it you would need to fully gear up for a high crit chance. The right staff/wand, probably lower damage with a higher crit chance, ear rings with improved crit chance, rings with improved crit chance and so on. The problem I see here is you are having to give up all the items to increase your End? Right? Although I will agree that full End is useless I would call it foolish to throw End to the wayside. Atleast some items to increase your End and give you the HPs to live threw the battery from other mages and heavy hitting tanks.

Well well, now we hit pure Int mages. I personaly see nothing wrong with this build vs others.

And on we go to hybrid Int/Spirit mages. I see nothing wrong with this build either.

I believe any fight between a hybrid and a int mage would put you on the edge of your seat and come down to the better player, and that the better player would win with the other character even if it were swaped with the better players chages to skills and such. If the better character controled both it would go back and forth one winning then the next. I dont think eithris better than the other. In the end with these two I say it all comes down to skill and luck.

These again are the opinions of a noob. Feal free to set me strait anywhere you feal I strayed off track, but please put it in plain english otherwise I will get very confused ^^

[Shumirah]

-A note from your local neighborhood Enchanter -


Just say NO to END.

This is your mage :D - "w00t I pwn!"
This is your mage with end :( - "waaa I got pwned"
any questions? :confused:

XD your so great Maiya! lol

[The-Sakura]

mmm.. having a +9 wand along with strong armour just means I tank and deal damage fine ^.^
I luff my built