Clerics, WTH???

[Onikasu]

Why is it every cleric I see in a KQ is always trying to out-tank a warrior 3 levels higher than it? people not being rez'd because you guys think you can out-tank a warrior because of your 1 spell. Eventually the main tank Quit tanking until the clerics co-operated with him which took 7 minutes. We had a mage who threatened to go grab more Marly's and Mara fakes if the clerics did not do the job right. After that we lost 3 back-up tanks and 2 Clerics who actually did their job because the clerics with the buffs were to busy trying to replace the tank/s instead of Rez'ing them. * we had 6 Clerics total and 5 Warriors* Then they failed to keep the tank alive and get us Back-up tanks Rez'd in time. Even after we got all our crap together because of a dumbass cleric trying to tank yet again.

We did not start hollaring until after the official tank died 2 times and we lost a mage or 2, permanantly. And Like I said 2 of 6 clerics were actually doing their job right and got a few shots in, we had no problem with them whatso-ever. I KNOW there is a huge *** cool time for Rez and so do others, we can understand that. Not all Clerics are gawd aweful, thankfully.

Dont give me the excuse about you having 8 scroll buffs, only 2 of those mater, HP and DEF. Dont tell me " use your potions and stones!!!11!10ne" we did all that and still failed. I know some of you wont like this *especially you full END clerics*

Guys If you want to tank and be #1 go get a Warrior. Its not your job to tank especially with a mace/hammer that do damage equal to or less than a 1H sword when the real tank has a freaking Axe. Get your crap together, your head out of your you-know-where and stop being morons please.

And Im not goign against all cleircs here, I fully support he smart clerics who know what theyr doing and think things through instead of rushing in. The other clerics though, the ones getting 3 bosses and 5 monsters, and exxpect everything to be A+ OK, are the ones that this whole thread is directed at.
[/endrant]

[Hydr0]

First off all ur right. there are stupid clerics who think and try to tank.. they can just choose to be fighters.
but still.. there are few clerics who dont like to be party cleric and they batlle. they put STR and they almost like fighters with heal.. so ye they sux but there is such clerics :\

[krystah]

I've played both warriors and clerics in KQ parties and I see your point, but I absolutely HATE the phrase "do your job". I agree, there's nothing more annoying than a little twerpy cleric butting in and trying to tank a powerful monster because "it's ok, i can heal myself" or "i have scrolls"... Except maybe, when you've just healed or rez'ed someone and while waiting for the cooldown 5 people start complaining and yelling at you to do your job... Or perhaps when an archer rushes in for a first shot and then ends up dieing because "you didn't heal me! do your job!"

We've got to work together people. If I'm only 1 of 2 clerics in a party, we can't just sit and heal spam you the whole time. We're gonna run out of SP way too soon, and eating up a bunch of pots/stones during a quest is never a good time. You've got some responsibilities in keeping yourselves alive, too. If you're taking too much damage... stop hitting the monster and run around so that someone else can pick it up. Don't just sit there taking damage, die, and then complain about it later.

When I use my cleric, I realize I have 3 responsibilities. Buff, heal/rez, and if everyone's in a pretty good shape I'm jumping in there to do some damage, too. However, I DO keep an eye on my party's HP and jump out to heal them. That's the main priority of a cleric, keep the party alive. But don't think of us as walking pots, we don't like being bossed around all the time. And if you start snapping and yelling at your clerics... we're more likely to just let you die.

[Onikasu]

But don't think of us as walking pots, we don't like being bossed around all the time. And if you start snapping and yelling at your clerics... we're more likely to just let you die.

We did not start hollaring until after the official tank died 2 times and we lost a mage or 2, permanantly. And Like I said 2 of 6 clerics were actually doing their job right and got a few shots in, we had no problem with them whatso-ever. I KNOW there is a huge *** cool time for Rez and so do others, we can understand that. Some clerics are not gawd aweful but there are some that tick ya off so much ya make a thread like this.

[Forbin]

Wait a minute, you had a tank, and they couldn't stay alive with TWO clerics healing them? What was he, level 2? LOL

And, calling an axe-wielding fighter a tank is on par with calling a full INT archer a great damage machine.

If you're a tank over 20, and you can't stay alive with 1 cleric healing you in Mara bosses, do us all a favor and go play Runescape.

Conversely, if you are unable to out-aggro clerics during a boss fight, go play Atari.

I'm not defending the clerics that were tanking instead of healing, but your post is simply too full of BS to let it fly.


By 22 my fighter was able to tank all the bosses in Mara KQ with zero clerics, if needed. One cleric ensured very few stones or potions were needed. Don't run around calling people tanks when they're clearly not.

[Yoruko]

These kinds of posts work both ways, I've met pleanty of bad clerics sure, but at the same time I get sick of all the fights who don't seem to want to tank. The don't use kick, don't carry def scrolls at least, don't have any end etc. It's really annoying when I'm playing my archer or mage and the moment I start damaging the boss mob he's charging at me cause the tank isn't taunting it.

It does help to rant from time to time, and these posts are good on occasion for newer players so they can ask themselfs "do I really want to be that person?" Personally I like rants more specifically about individual players(not necessarily names given) which the OP does kind of do, but you should try to avoid the generalizations.

[Scarlets]

What? What's wrong with "full END clerics"? If these clerics survives because of their END build, they would be able to revive you. Should they die, there won't be a single chance for you.

Of course, it's not our job to tank but at times, when all the fighters are either stunned or lying on the floor dead, you expect a mage to tank? Or an archer? Wouldn't it be better if an END build cleric could hold the agro while the rest get their acts together?

If somehow the cleric tanks and you don't like it, why not use your kick?

[Jacquin]

By how this sounds, what I see in the Slime KQs is a piece of what's to come :(.

I'll admit, I'm a 'tanky' player. My warrior will taunt anything and EVERYTHING that moves even if it means spamming the pots and stones. My cleric rushes forward into the fray oftain and tries to pull mobs off the main tank or off the weaker ones. Blah, I've semi-tanked with my mage to keep the queen and company off of the clerics.

HOWEVER, I also remember this:

- My warrior is the ONLY CLASS who knows how to taunt and pull aggros.

NO! whacking a monster won't do: chances are if they are after that other guy, it will GET that mage. Even if they ARE potting, they AREN'T focused on damage, or debuffs, or heals, or pulling that other monster off that other guy. That's wasted power right there.

- My cleric is the ONLY CLASS who can heal others

Everyone who's done KQs, even the first one, should know by now that pots and stones are NOT enough out there: I pot and stone ALL THE TIME and STILL die. We NEED that backup. Besides, once the tank KNOWS they will be watched over, they can go crasy and REALLY push the forces forward.

- My mage and archer are THE damage doers

No cleric or warrior, no matter what they want, can dish out the pain like those two classes can and as easily. It's THEM that's killing the monsters, not that cute Bash or that slice and dice.

Thus when I'm my warrior, I'll fling out the damage attacks, but will STOP that second to Taunt the monster heading for my team. When I'm my cleric, I'll tank up front, but I'm bashing between heals, and if there's too many getting hurt, that monster hitting me will just have to keep hitting while I do my thing (not like I have to kill it right away: I can heal and I have scrolls, right..oh and those pots and stones ;) ). If I'm an archer or mage, it's focus fire on whatever's doing damage: even if I pulled a monster, if another is more dangerous to my team, THAT's who's getting the spells/arrows.

You don't have to be stuck in 'your role' to be a good party member. You DO have to use ALL of the skills you have available to help your team. For mr. 'tank cleric', that means you are BOTH running in front AND healing your team. If you keep 'forgetting' to heal then learn.. if you can't, either ditch the heal and go pure tank (*coughWARRIORcough*) or ditch the tank and go pure heal. There's no point to hybriding to get both worlds then not using one of them. In fact, it goes both ways: if there are no warriors, and you are 'tank cleric' you BETTER be up using that 'tank' side or else why did you bother making yourself so tanky?

Short of it is, forget 'what your suppost to do' and forget 'they should be doing that'. Here's the real point:

If there's something you can do that the team needs, you DO it, end of story.

[wolfdance]

There's nothing wrong with a top level cleric of a kq to tank. most time they have better agro and damage. when i did last few maras i'd make sure lower level clerics could keep tank alive on first mara and i'd jump on marlone and start solo him to get quest done faster. i could get marlone down a quarter by the time team killed mara. i did all spr up to level 30 Then started doing end but just so i could fight in uruga. i tanked kling slime with a party of 4 and we succeed.

[wolfdance]

But the clerics in lower levels of quest should only heal cause they can't take or dish damage yet. i've been in mara where even with 4 clerics healing tank he keeps dying and i've had to take over just to have fighter cry i'm not doing my job. lol. dying with lots of clerics means your the one not doing your job. i've even tanked mara and marlone with my archer. and saying a cleric cant agro is a joke. i wish i didn't agro so good at times. heal and bash both agro. get mobed alot.

[Onikasu]

Wait a minute, you had a tank, and they couldn't stay alive with TWO clerics healing them? What was he, level 2? LOL

And, calling an axe-wielding fighter a tank is on par with calling a full INT archer a great damage machine.

If you're a tank over 20, and you can't stay alive with 1 cleric healing you in Mara bosses, do us all a favor and go play Runescape.

Conversely, if you are unable to out-aggro clerics during a boss fight, go play Atari.

I'm not defending the clerics that were tanking instead of healing, but your post is simply too full of BS to let it fly.


By 22 my fighter was able to tank all the bosses in Mara KQ with zero clerics, if needed. One cleric ensured very few stones or potions were needed. Don't run around calling people tanks when they're clearly not.
1: I'm not over 20 Only 4 people were over 20 The main tank, one of the ibusile clerics, and 2 mage
2: The clerics who were healing had OTHER casualties to from other monsters to attend as well as us because the 4 dumbass clerics didnt know what leading meant, which made us hate the other 4 clerics all the more for not Rez'ing. Bosses are one thing, I can understand but these idget clerics got both the Bosses and and bunch of other people from the left side or the first ship. So no, two normal IQ clerics were not able to keep up with everything.
3: as stated above yes Normally he would have been a tank with 900+HP but we had 2 bosses and god knows how many Marlon gangs and archers >_>

EDIT::
@ Scarlets: We did use Agro's Like I said above we had some imbusiles attracting too much attention.
@ Wolfdance: I have seen a cleric tank work only once and that was in slime KQ and he was level 17 when we got to the king. We opted him only because he was such a high level he out did our highest warrior even without using buffs which was level 10.

[soysauce2rice]

Do mind that there is a different person controlling a cleric, it's not just the class itself. Also, 1 cleric can heal alone for Mara KQ, but it's more safer to have more, right?
A Tank can take the damage as long as it's alive, so yes, I'd understand you'd get mad if you aren't being healed, because that's one of the Cleric's roles. Such as an archer doing DoTs, Fighter's Debuffing/Tanking and Mages for DPS. We can't do anything for the clerics wanting to tank for bosses. Maybe they are tankers that are too cheap to buy potions and stones, like me! :]

[Summit]

Full End Clerics- Its good for outside soloing but once in KQ those mobs hit 5x harder so give it up, also you cant hold aggro like a tank can. I agree with the topic starter quit thinking your some god with the insta heal. your not. and never will be. your damage is lower than all classes since you poured every liable stat point into End thinking you'd be a beast but your just in the end a fat healer who can solo grind but cant do much but still heal like the rest of us in a KQ.

Fighters+And Back Up Tanks(and clerics actually healing)- If you see a cleric trying to take your job, dont aid them, back off to a non aggro distance dotn heal them dont rez them, let them die and waste their lives. end of story.

[Xanthros]

Many great points shared so far, I will add this one:

Just because a cleric can tank doesn't mean that they should.

Why you ask? A stunned or dead cleric cannot heal, or rez. Whenever I am in a party, I ask explicitly from the start what they wish for me to do. If they say "heal only", I do that - if they say "heal and assist if things get bad", I'll do that too. If they ask me to tank, and I'm tanking red things, there better be a secondary cleric in the mix.. especially if I'm tanking in CP. As a cleric, surviving and keeping your party alive means knowing your limits. That said, I would never ever attempt to tank in Uruga at my current lv (mid 3x) as insta-death would result.

My .02,

X-

[Summit]

Many great points shared so far, I will add this one:

Just because a cleric can tank doesn't mean that they should.

Why you ask? A stunned or dead cleric cannot heal, or rez. Whenever I am in a party, I ask explicitly from the start what they wish for me to do. If they say "heal only", I do that - if they say "heal and assist if things get bad", I'll do that too. If they ask me to tank, and I'm tanking red things, there better be a secondary cleric in the mix.. especially if I'm tanking in CP. As a cleric, surviving and keeping your party alive means knowing your limits. That said, I would never ever attempt to tank in Uruga at my current lv (mid 3x) as insta-death would result.

My .02,

X-

your posts on these topics always follow mine, I swear your stalking me.

[Xanthros]

your posts on these topics always follow mine, I swear your stalking me.

Not stalking, just know that I will find something intelligent to work with as opposed to people cross-threading about mages being the best in the fighter category. (The example just mentioned may or may not reflect any actual events or a thread I commented on in the last 20 minutes.)

X-

[WereKin]

If you're a tank over 20, and you can't stay alive with 1 cleric healing you in Mara bosses, do us all a favor and go play Runescape.


I'm tired of you people putting down Runescape...I for one think it's a great game. It's got plenty to do for the free users, and much much more for the members. I've meant plenty of nice people on runescape. What? Is it an /easy/ game? If that's what you think, then Fiesta is just as easy. Geez...

Now, I'm not saying Runescape is the /best/ game out there or anything, just stop degrading it to the level of a horrible mass of coding. If you don't like, go ahead and not like it. There is such a thing as being polite though.

Ahem...as for the topic, sometimes you guys get a bit too mad. Oh my gosh...so you guys will lose ONE KQ! It's not that big of a deal. If you lose because a cleric tries to tank and fails and brings doom to everyone else, hey. You've got more KQ's you can go for. In fact, their I can heal myself so I can tank logic has a valid point to it. If they can heal faster than they take damage, or heal more damage than they take, then they could very well tank. No, they may not do too much damage, but that's what everyone else is for. The aggro problem may in fact be a problem, of course. But if the cleric can keep aggro on himself, then why not? It frees up more fighters to do damage, which oh so many look down on the cleric for not being able to do.

[Gravvi]

OK another one of these topics. OMG shut up about this there has been 20+topics made about this. There is no right or wrong way to play get over it. If you are tired of them stop playing the game, but every MMO has that. Don't yell at a cleric if they want to tank let them, they can take care of themselves. If a fighter has an issue with it, get over it you cannot stop it. You bashing them isn't going to help. Plus why don't u make a post about archers. I have an archer and i do more damage than any fighter my lvl. I always pull the boss away from the tank. So yelling at clerics is just stupid. Like I said to end this kind of argument, I made a cleric without healing abilities and rez. So there, I have no choice but to tank. So stop bashing people for not having the same build as everyone. I don't like having the same build as everyone, so i changed it. Big whoop get over it and stop with these retarded posts.

[Summit]

OK another one of these topics. OMG shut up about this there has been 20+topics made about this. There is no right or wrong way to play get over it. If you are tired of them stop playing the game, but every MMO has that. Don't yell at a cleric if they want to tank let them, they can take care of themselves. If a fighter has an issue with it, get over it you cannot stop it. You bashing them isn't going to help. Plus why don't u make a post about archers. I have an archer and i do more damage than any fighter my lvl. I always pull the boss away from the tank. So yelling at clerics is just stupid. Like I said to end this kind of argument, I made a cleric without healing abilities and rez. So there, I have no choice but to tank. So stop bashing people for not having the same build as everyone. I don't like having the same build as everyone, so i changed it. Big whoop get over it and stop with these retarded posts.

I doubt you out damage fighters out dps (over a long run yes) not short bursts of damage, theres a different hon.. realise it. and most of the clerics out there HAVE full end and so he isnt yelling at them for not having a build like evryone hes yelling at them for sheerly ruining a kq, clerics CANT hold aggro and never will. end of story dont try to respond and flame someone with out any solid facts loves.

[Onikasu]

Ahem...as for the topic, sometimes you guys get a bit too mad. Oh my gosh...so you guys will lose ONE KQ!
Yes One KQ and this happens about 2 of 3 times every day, and 5 days every week.

No offense but if this did happen once in a blue moon I might say "meh" but this is getting ridiculous how common some of it is. and losing 2/3 KQ is not fun when all you have time for is two KQ and maybe a third if you have a very flexible schedule.

I'm not saying it is this bad all the times, but when you get that one Diphead in your KQ that manages to ruin everything and tick everyone off because he is impatient, yeh......


*that or i just end up in the same KQ as all the dip-heads* :(

EDIT: Thanks Summit you summed up what I was gonna say =D

[Summit]

Yes One KQ and this happens about 2 of 3 times every day, and 5 days every week.

No offense but if this did happen once in a blue moon I might say "meh" but this is getting ridiculous how common some of it is. and losing 2/3 KQ is not fun when all you have time for is two KQ and maybe a third if you have a very flexible schedule.


*that or i just end up in the same KQ as all the dip-heads* :(

best way to ignore people like the one you reponded to is to not respond or let people like me and Xan shut them up ;)

[WereKin]

Yes One KQ and this happens about 2 of 3 times every day, and 5 days every week.

No offense but if this did happen once in a blue moon I might say "meh" but this is getting ridiculous how common some of it is. and losing 2/3 KQ is not fun when all you have time for is two KQ and maybe a third if you have a very flexible schedule.


*that or i just end up in the same KQ as all the dip-heads* :(

I'm truly sorry if you end up in the KQ's with people who can't seem to coordinate properly. I get those only every once in awhile. Most of them I only get one noobish person, who will most of the time learn what to do quickly.

I have only once, maybe twice, gotten into a KQ that most everybody couldn't handle. I've lost a couple (and gotten kicked from 2 because of server shut down >_<) but life goes on. You can always level the good old fashion way. Killing monsters one at a time.


--EDIT--

I resent that comment Summit. I don't like when people categorize people into 'that kind of person' or 'people like that'. It's rude. I take my time to try and not to senselessly flame people. I voice my opinion, without telling the other to go to heck because I don't like his view. I'd appreciate it if others did the same.

[Summit]

I'm truly sorry if you end up in the KQ's with people who can't seem to coordinate properly. I get those only every once in awhile. Most of them I only get one noobish person, who will most of the time learn what to do quickly.

I have only once, maybe twice, gotten into a KQ that most everybody couldn't handle. I've lost a couple (and gotten kicked from 2 because of server shut down >_<) but life goes on. You can always level the good old fashion way. Killing monsters one at a time.

Well all kq's would go better if people knew they should and HAVE to play their role no matter what build they have, I when i made my cleric even though I was soloing like a mad man outside I knew in kqs I cant hold aggro like the fighters can specially on bosses so I stood back and healed take this as a lesson clerics who think their better than fighters, in a kq you will never be able to replace another classes role, you cant out dps a archer or mage and you cant out tank a fighter never have never will. why because one you have 0 taunts even with heal it doesnt work on bosses ebcause others will heal you also and by time. why cant you out dps well thats bloody obvious if you need to ask this >_> so... learn your place in kqs, stop trying to play another classes job and stay back and heal. Im sorry it may be boring but if you dont want to. DONT JOIN THE KQ, set and done, check mate.

[WereKin]

Well all kq's would go better if people knew they should and HAVE to play their role no matter what build they have, I when i made my cleric even though I was soloing like a mad man outside I knew in kqs I cant hold aggro like the fighters can specially on bosses so I stood back and healed take this as a lesson clerics who think their better than fighters, in a kq you will never be able to replace another classes role, you cant out dps a archer or mage and you cant out tank a fighter never have never will. why because one you have 0 taunts even with heal it doesnt work on bosses ebcause others will heal you also and by time. why cant you out dps well thats bloody obvious if you need to ask this >_> so... learn your place in kqs, stop trying to play another classes job and stay back and heal. Im sorry it may be boring but if you dont want to. DONT JOIN THE KQ, set and done, check mate.

The point of being able to build your char the way you want is to make the game interesting. To make a character out of the norm, that's meant to do something another class usually does. Granted, clerics ARE the only ones that can heal, and fighters have no need what-so-ever for INT. But fighters are NOT the only ones who can tank. No, mages can't really tank. They don't have the hp for it. They are naturally weak when it comes to that. Archers aren't advisable, but they can do better than mages. Clerics CAN tank. Maybe not quite as perfectly as a fighter, but they still can do a great job at it. I agree that a cleric's classic place is to step back and heal, but we always have those that decide to stray from the classic path and go another. I think it's great. If everything stayed the same all the time, why would people continued to be interested in playing? Why is it that once people reach a level cap and run out of new things to do, they tend to get bored? Because there isn't anything that can say, 'Oh! That looks a fun idea.' They've already tried it. So let some people try out their fun ideas. Being in a KQ with people who step outside of their classic class responsibilities is an interesting experience, and more often than not a challenge of your abilities, and the abilities of the group of misfits as a whole. It's especially rewarding when you can say, 'Ha. I'm not a healing cleric. He isn't a tanking fighter. That archer doesn't stick to DoTs, and that mage decided to take a hit for the party, but we all still won!'

[Summit]

The point of being able to build your char the way you want is to make the game interesting. To make a character out of the norm, that's meant to do something another class usually does. Granted, clerics ARE the only ones that can heal, and fighters have no need what-so-ever for INT. But fighters are NOT the only ones who can tank. No, mages can't really tank. They don't have the hp for it. They are naturally weak when it comes to that. Archers aren't advisable, but they can do better than mages. Clerics CAN tank. Maybe not quite as perfectly as a fighter, but they still can do a great job at it. I agree that a cleric's classic place is to step back and heal, but we always have those that decide to stray from the classic path and go another. I think it's great. If everything stayed the same all the time, why would people continued to be interested in playing? Why is it that once people reach a level cap and run out of new things to do, they tend to get bored? Because there isn't anything that can say, 'Oh! That looks a fun idea.' They've already tried it. So let some people try out their fun ideas. Being in a KQ with people who step outside of their classic class responsibilities is an interesting experience, and more often than not a challenge of your abilities, and the abilities of the group of misfits as a whole. It's especially rewarding when you can say, 'Ha. I'm not a healing cleric. He isn't a tanking fighter. That archer doesn't stick to DoTs, and that mage decided to take a hit for the party, but we all still won!'

I didnt say they CANT tank if you've read my earlier post out side of kqs their just find solo or party wise but in a kq the whole team is relying on one person to hold the bosses aggro and not lose it as least as possible and that is something a cleric just cant do, because compared the the fighter, you cant pull aggro off the person if needed a person for pulling, you cant hold aggro right off the bat you'll need yourself to actually run and and spend atleast a minute or two building up aggro solo before everyone else can join in this ofcourse isnt the best of plans because in a kq you are timed, so Im NOT saying a cleric cant tank Im just saying they SHOULD NOT try to do so in a kq where time is of the essence where as a fighter can just 123 and he has control of the mob 1. taunt 2. pop a damaging skill 3. normal hit. where as a cleric ofcourse cannot.

[WereKin]

I didnt say they CANT tank if you've read my earlier post out side of kqs their just find solo or party wise but in a kq the whole team is relying on one person to hold the bosses aggro and not lose it as least as possible and that is something a cleric just cant do, because compared the the fighter, you cant pull aggro off the person if needed a person for pulling, you cant hold aggro right off the bat you'll need yourself to actually run and and spend atleast a minute or two building up aggro solo before everyone else can join in this ofcourse isnt the best of plans because in a kq you are timed, so Im NOT saying a cleric can tank Im just saying they SHOULD NOT try to do so in a kq where time is of the essence where as a fighter can just 123 and he has control of the mob 1. taunt 2. pop a damaging skill 3. normal hit. where as a cleric ofcourse cannot.

I pretty much thought we were implying a KQ setting. I'm sorry there.

Unless you seem to always finish a KQ with a minute or less, then that one minute won't matter much. I normally finish a mara KQ with 8 or so minutes left, even when we run into some big trouble. That one or two minutes really won't matter much in that case.

Yes, I agree. Clerics can't hold aggro as well as fighters. I also stated that earlier in one of my posts. But it isn't impossible. I'm not going to pretend I've been in a KQ where a cleric has tanked and done better than a fighter in the same KQ would have done, but I know for a fact it's possible.

On the other hand, sometimes we all run into those fighters who just can't seem to hold aggro. It happens. It may get a bit annoying when that happens, or when a cleric loses aggro and somebody gets hurt, but all you have to do is laugh and say nice try. I'm sure you'll do better next time.

[Summit]

I pretty much thought we were implying a KQ setting. I'm sorry there.

Unless you seem to always finish a KQ with a minute or less, then that one minute won't matter much. I normally finish a mara KQ with 8 or so minutes left, even when we run into some big trouble. That one or two minutes really won't matter much in that case.

Yes, I agree. Clerics can't hold aggro as well as fighters. I also stated that earlier in one of my posts. But it isn't impossible. I'm not going to pretend I've been in a KQ where a cleric has tanked and done better than a fighter in the same KQ would have done, but I know for a fact it's possible.

On the other hand, sometimes we all run into those fighters who just can't seem to hold aggro. It happens. It may get a bit annoying when that happens, or when a cleric loses aggro and somebody gets hurt, but all you have to do is laugh and say nice try. I'm sure you'll do better next time.


Heh well like I said a cleric wouldnt be able to grab the aggro right off the puller in mara so you'd either have to sacrifice the puller (which i bet he/she wouldnt do that) or hope you get a decent enough hit to grab the bosses attention. I have seen and tanked one kq and that was GH but..it was really aggrivating because everyone would have to stop attacking and I'd have to chase the boss around as the aggro'er tried to not take a beating and I had to out spam heal other heals and at the same hit the boss before he wandered too far off. It really is too much trouble for a cleric to attempt tanking. and yes the lower level kqs you do whined up with plenty of time left sometimes, but when you hit gh and beyond you'll regret wasting any time at all.

[WereKin]

Heh well like I said a cleric wouldnt be able to grab the aggro right off the puller in mara so you'd either have to sacrifice the puller (which i bet he/she wouldnt do that) or hope you get a decent enough hit to grab the bosses attention. I have seen and tanked one kq and that was GH but..it was really aggrivating because everyone would have to stop attacking and I'd have to chase the boss around as the aggro'er tried to not take a beating and I had to out spam heal other heals and at the same hit the boss before he wandered too far off. It really is too much trouble for a cleric to attempt tanking. and yes the lower level kqs you do whined up with plenty of time left sometimes, but when you hit gh and beyond you'll regret wasting any time at all.

Yes, I'm sure we will regret wasting time. But not all the time. Sometimes people just get durn lucky.

The problem a lot of people have is that they tend to think of only one situation. They tend to get locked into one set idea. For example, 'OMG...can't you clerics just back off and HEAL like your SUPPOSED to?!?!' or 'These bosses are just too hard for you weaklings to take on. I'll do it. Don't get in my way.'
They might have a good reason behind their thinking, and I don't doubt that many of the do, but sometimes you just have to look through the other's eyes. Or if not, atleast give them a sporting chance and then a friendly 'I told you so'. Put emphasis on friendly.

[Summit]

Yes, I'm sure we will regret wasting time. But not all the time. Sometimes people just get durn lucky.

The problem a lot of people have is that they tend to think of only one situation. They tend to get locked into one set idea. For example, 'OMG...can't you clerics just back off and HEAL like your SUPPOSED to?!?!' or 'These bosses are just too hard for you weaklings to take on. I'll do it. Don't get in my way.'
They might have a good reason behind their thinking, and I don't doubt that many of the do, but sometimes you just have to look through the other's eyes. Or if not, atleast give them a sporting chance and then a friendly 'I told you so'. Put emphasis on friendly.

Heh I got tired of people bickering about me poking the bosses while the fighter tanked so my 2nd character turned out to be a fighter now i get to bicker yay hah kidding but ya..people do get naggy in kqs and when farming mini bosses.

[WereKin]

Heh I got tired of people bickering about me poking the bosses while the fighter tanked so my 2nd character turned out to be a fighter now i get to bicker yay hah kidding but ya..people do get naggy in kqs and when farming mini bosses.

Aye, the magic trick for people you are annoyed with:
1) Ask nicely for them to stop whatever annoys you.
2) If that fails, ask again. Politely.
3) If that fails, and your feeling particularly patient, ask again. Politely.
4) If step 2 or 3 fails, ignore that person.

Or if you can argue without blatantly/intentionally insulting, then by all means, that's much more fun.

[Summit]

Aye, the magic trick for people you are annoyed with:
1) Ask nicely for them to stop whatever annoys you.
2) If that fails, ask again. Politely.
3) If that fails, and your feeling particularly patient, ask again. Politely.
4) If step 2 or 3 fails, ignore that person.

Or if you can argue without blatantly/intentionally insulting, then by all means, that's much more fun.

heh usually I let them ramble on and laugh as everyone else yells at them.

[WereKin]

heh usually I let them ramble on and laugh as everyone else yells at them.

That works too, as long as you're laughing at the situation, and not the person.

It's fun to listen to people ramble. See how they think. Then watch other people try and talk to them. Of course, whenever it gets out of hand, it's nice to step in for the person and tell everyone to show a little politeness.

[runkler]

we should be able to buff heal rex and Fight that is y we are givn fighting spells but then again we do need to heal and stuff we should only fight when every one is ok only do it on you spare time

[Onikasu]

we should be able to buff heal rex and Fight that is y we are givn fighting spells but then again we do need to heal and stuff we should only fight when every one is ok only do it on you spare time

WRONG TO THE 5TH DEGREE!!!! * Partially wrong though I do agree with the last half of your statement

Your given that one Bash skill for Solo, not KQ. And if Cleic got any more buffed, they would be the sole champions of PVP. Your basically asking for a speeding bullet to go even faster, Unbalanced much?? If Warrior got the DEF buff they need it would solve this entire problem though. And dot say warriors are hard to beat in PVP Some people have to pull of a Kratos just to survive you clerics. You guys have a buttload of SP *gievn the right build* Warriors dont, so eventually you can be healing away, and all we have is our raw power and weapon.

[WereKin]

WRONG TO THE 5TH DEGREE!!!! * Partially wrong though I do agree with the last half of your statement

Your given that one Bash skill for Solo, not KQ. And if Cleic got any more buffed, they would be the sole champions of PVP. Your basically asking for a speeding bullet to go even faster, Unbalanced much?? If Warrior got the DEF buff they need it would solve this entire problem though.

I don't think he meant that clerics need MORE buffing power. I think he meant that we should be able to do what we already do AND fight. If you are the traditional cleric, I also agree with the last part.

[Gamestopperz]

I was in a KQ where the Cleric was are tank and we had 15mins lefts and we beat it with the Cleric tanking everything
People were leaving cause we only had low lvl fighters
We had 11 people left with one fighter that was the lowest lvl of us all
1Fighter 5mages 4 clerics 1 archer
It was hella funny cause near the end of all the bosses they stated to kill off every mage we had

[Onikasu]

I don't think he meant that clerics need MORE buffing power. I think he meant that we should be able to do what we already do AND fight. If you are the traditional cleric, I also agree with the last part.

Well if he meant it that way then Yeah.

[Balder]

KQs, in essence, are all about the situation and cirmcumstances. You can't jeer at a cleric for not healing when theres like eight or nine of them(I was in one like that. Nobody died ;P).

In the same way, clerics should recognize priorites when there's very few of them. (As in heal first, fight second)

Thirdly, the lvls. A more of an end fighter at the lvl peak of the kq probably needs less clerics healing him than a more of an str figher.

Also, one more thing:

BUFF UP PEOPLE. STOP COMING TO THE DAMN KQS WITHOUT THEM AND MAKE THE CLERICS's JOB HARDER!!!

[Aquabelle]

This kind of attitude urks me. OMG IT'S YOUR FAULT CLERICS! No, it's not. You said you had like 6 clerics? All you need is 2. If the tank is dying with two clerics healing him, there is something wrong. Either that tank is low level, or needs to man up and USE A SHIELD. That's right. No one seems to get this, yet. If you're taking a lot of damage, put on your shield and tank, like you probably whined to do. If you want to tank, don't use an axe with a STR build, because, this game, in all it's awesomeness, does not make you to where you are the best in both damage or tanking.
I'll be honest. I've tanked many a KQ with my cleric. Did people die? Maybe one or two. But sometimes you don't have a choice. If I'm close to the cap level, or at it, and the highest fighter is barely high enough to even enter the KQ, you know I'm gonna tank. Sure, he can taunt, and then DIE. If people would realise that, yes, clerics CAN tank, but only when they have to, and possibly, how to deal with this situation, KQ's will go a LOT smoother.
And what about after Maras, and Gold Hill? Robo anyone? Everyone is a tank in that half the time. I've spent more time healing my mages and archers then fighters in that KQ. Not because I'm a bad cleric, but because they're taking most of the damage.
I'm not completely saying that the clerics weren't acting bad, because if you're fighting over healing and reving, then yes, that is not doing your job. But if there is more then 2 clerics, I wan't to see some of them bashing mobs! What needs to be done in this situation, is for people to actually communicate. Yes, I mean actually TALK to the other people, and decided who is healing only, and who is fighting. I suggest the lower levels healing, because they're usually not going to do much damage, and will die faster if they do happen to get aggro.
Just think, if you guys would have taken the 2 minutes to talk it out, and say "Hey, how about so and such heals us, and then the rest of you guys just do backup healing?", I'm sure this post would have never been written.

But this will all probably be ignored, and people will ignore eachother in KQ, have a bad experience, and then post flames like this.

Blargh!

[TenshiShukuya]

Here's my opinion, for what it's worth. I see nothing wrong with clerics fighting the boss. If they are able to and can hold their own, more power to them. And while yes, clerics are dominately healers there are situations that make it so that the cleric is unable to heal others and themselves. Sorry but when it comes down to it, I'll choose to keep my character alive if I have to. If I'm able to sure I'll help out some others.

But I have been in some KQs where I've either been forced to be the one taking on the boss (because the others were too afraid, or not able to live long enough) while others took on the monsters coming out of no where.

I have no problem with a cleric taking on the boss. I've done it more than once and the players all stayed alive including myself. So it can be done, and it can work.

And, while I can hold my own in some of the kingdom quests, and while I prefer to do the healing aspect, there are times when I've been in a KQ and have failed to get into a party, due to what ever reason I was left at the start while the whole group takes off towards the goal. Now That's all fine and dandy but as a cleric with no party, even when asking for one, why should I waste my time healing others when I worked my **** off to get to where the boss is, alone with out anyone helping. (annoying when it happens) And even when I was more newbish I took on the boss when I was alone because I didn't know if I'd get the xp for the kill or not, because all the other partys were full and didn't have room, or didn't want to invite.

And what someone said earlier about a tanker having two healers and still dying. I agree, that wasn't a good tanker. While us clerics do heal, you should always be responsible for your own character as well, cool times happen, and I can't always heal someone on time. Other players attacking might jump in the way of me being able to click on them and heal them. So if you are gonna tank, then you should also be prepared to heal yourself if you need to with pots and what not.

[Onikasu]

This kind of attitude urks me. OMG IT'S YOUR FAULT CLERICS! No, it's not. You said you had like 6 clerics? All you need is 2. If the tank is dying with two clerics healing him, there is something wrong. Either that tank is low level, or needs to man up and USE A SHIELD. That's right. No one seems to get this, yet. If you're taking a lot of damage, put on your shield and tank, like you probably whined to do. If you want to tank, don't use an axe with a STR build, because, this game, in all it's awesomeness, does not make you to where you are the best in both damage or tanking.

I'm not completely saying that the clerics weren't acting bad, because if you're fighting over healing and reving, then yes, that is not doing your job. But if there is more then 2 clerics, I wan't to see some of them bashing mobs! What needs to be done in this situation, is for people to actually communicate. Yes, I mean actually TALK to the other people, and decided who is healing only, and who is fighting. I suggest the lower levels healing, because they're usually not going to do much damage, and will die faster if they do happen to get aggro.
Just think, if you guys would have taken the 2 minutes to talk it out, and say "Hey, how about so and such heals us, and then the rest of you guys just do backup healing?", I'm sure this post would have never been written.

But this will all probably be ignored, and people will ignore eachother in KQ, have a bad experience, and then post flames like this.

Blargh!


And what someone said earlier about a tanker having two healers and still dying. I agree, that wasn't a good tanker. While us clerics do heal, you should always be responsible for your own character as well, cool times happen, and I can't always heal someone on time. Other players attacking might jump in the way of me being able to click on them and heal them. So if you are gonna tank, then you should also be prepared to heal yourself if you need to with pots and what not.
Kids please go back and read page two or beter yet let me quote it for you.

ME:
1: I'm not over 20 Only 4 people were over 20 The main tank, one of the ibusile clerics, and 2 mage
2: The clerics who were healing had OTHER casualties to from other monsters to attend as well as us because the 4 dumbass clerics didnt know what leading meant, which made us hate the other 4 clerics all the more for not Rez'ing. Bosses are one thing, I can understand but these idget clerics got both the Bosses and and bunch of other people from the left side or the first ship. So no, two normal IQ clerics were not able to keep up with everything.
3: as stated above yes Normally he would have been a tank with 900+HP but we had 2 bosses and god knows how many Marlon gangs and archers >_>

EDIT::
@ Scarlets: We did use Agro's Like I said above we had some imbusiles attracting too much attention.
@ Wolfdance: I have seen a cleric tank work only once and that was in slime KQ and he was level 17 when we got to the king. We opted him only because he was such a high level he out did our highest warrior even without using buffs which was level 10.

Summit:
Full End Clerics- Its good for outside soloing but once in KQ those mobs hit 5x harder so give it up, also you cant hold aggro like a tank can. I agree with the topic starter quit thinking your some god with the insta heal. your not. and never will be. your damage is lower than all classes since you poured every liable stat point into End thinking you'd be a beast but your just in the end a fat healer who can solo grind but cant do much but still heal like the rest of us in a KQ.

Xanthros:
Many great points shared so far, I will add this one:

Just because a cleric can tank doesn't mean that they should.

Why you ask? A stunned or dead cleric cannot heal, or rez. Whenever I am in a party, I ask explicitly from the start what they wish for me to do. If they say "heal only", I do that - if they say "heal and assist if things get bad", I'll do that too. If they ask me to tank, and I'm tanking red things, there better be a secondary cleric in the mix.. especially if I'm tanking in CP. As a cleric, surviving and keeping your party alive means knowing your limits. That said, I would never ever attempt to tank in Uruga at my current lv (mid 3x) as insta-death would result.

My .02,

And yes we did talk crap out far ahead of time. PLease read every page of post's before sensless-ly flaming somone and making yourself look like a imbusile.

[Scarlets]

@ Scarlets: We did use Agro's Like I said above we had some imbusiles attracting too much attention.


You did? How did this imbecile attract attention? As far as I know, you can't attract agro unless you have the highest damage. Or maybe this cleric was healing but you just didn't see it, and heal could attract agro as well.

Sneering Kick's cool time is only 5 seconds. You (or any other tanks) should spam this skill to keep agro. If the cleric got the agro, it isn't their fault.

I understand how you feel when you say that some clerics don't do their jobs correctly, I have played classes other than my clerics. But being a full end cleric is not all that bad (in fact, I haven't seen its flaws yet), like I said in my earlier post, they act like secondary tanks when the tank is not ready.

@Summit: We (or at least I) never thought of ourself as the "God" in this game. The END is for the purpose of surviving because if clerics die you know what will happen. Not to make us feel like a "beast". Remember, when a fighter losses agro, the cleric could attract it with their heals. This is when the END and the fighter's kick comes in handy.

And since most of you are talking about Mara KQ; even if the boss doesn't go after the cleric, you have to understand that they have AOE attack which can victimize the cleric too if the boss attacks a nearby archer or mage.

I have tanked Marlone and Mara before in my last few levels of the KQ, and I did it successfully without any casualties nor complaints. This happened when we didn't have enough DDs and some of the clerics have to attack to make it in time. It was fun.

And lastly, my defense is directed to clerics who do their jobs (successfully even if a bit different than what is expected) and are concerned about their party. I've seen clerics that doesn't even buff their party, so maybe you guys are mad at that type of cleric? =\

Peace.

[Yoruko]

BUFF UP PEOPLE. STOP COMING TO THE DAMN KQS WITHOUT THEM AND MAKE THE CLERICS's JOB HARDER!!!

I wish more people would do this, if you're going to level a fighter(anyone should really but fighter specifically) take up scroll production. The drops for making vit scrolls are so common it's not even funny, aim and def are a tiny bit harder to get(need summoned beast leather) but even then it's not really all that hard. I mean cause of leveling up the skill i have like 300 vit scrolls, 200 shield, and 150 power, and like 50 evasion scrolls and that's after I've been using them on 3 characters every time they wear off or I die.

[academics03]

I had a KQ that was almost like that.
There were I think 2 Clerics, me and another guy who decided he just HAD to tank, leaving me to do all the healing and reviving because he wouldn't keep an eye out on his life at times either -.- It came down to me trying to revive 5+ people while the Cleric kept trying to tank again whenever I revived him instead of helping revive people, all the while he and everyone else are screaming at me in caps to revive them (which is stupid considering the cleric knew full well I had 30 second cooldown).

I don't have a large problem with Clerics who want to fight so long as they're more then 2 other Clerics and they have the defense to withstand a few hits; my issue just comes with the ones who won't heal themselves and the ones who KNOW they need to help heal because there aren't enough clerics to survive, but decide they don't care.

[Onikasu]

And lastly, my defense is directed to clerics who do their jobs (successfully even if a bit different than what is expected) and are concerned about their party.

Peace.

I can agree with you here, these kind of cleric deserve a freaking medal.
The other clerics though, the ones getting 3 bosses and 5 monsters are the ones that this whole thread is directed at.

[crazydrivr]

ok u stuped ppl yes im a fighter and clerics dont do their jods SOME TIMES But whould it kill you ppl to say plz heal or rez cuz if i was a cleric i whould have the same problem with u ppl and cleric CAN TANK TOO but when it comes to killing the boses clerics plz try and keep and eye out for ppl who need healng ask for it or need a rez.. I think i made my point thanks for reading it

[Gravvi]

I doubt you out damage fighters out dps (over a long run yes) not short bursts of damage, theres a different hon.. realise it. and most of the clerics out there HAVE full end and so he isnt yelling at them for not having a build like evryone hes yelling at them for sheerly ruining a kq, clerics CANT hold aggro and never will. end of story dont try to respond and flame someone with out any solid facts loves.

Quote yes i do more damage quicker. Usually if they don't taunt my first hit will bring him to me. And i didn't flame anyone this is just the 20+post about this subject. And one person won't ruin a KQ. And my cleric holds agro pretty well. I have a cleric and the only time someone has pulled it away was when a fighter did taunt or whatever that skill is. Or an archer out did me in damage which is common. But all archers need to do is natures protection. SO yes i do have facts. Get over urselves.

[Onikasu]

ok u stuped ppl yes im a fighter and clerics dont do their jods SOME TIMES But whould it kill you ppl to say plz heal or rez cuz if i was a cleric i whould have the same problem with u ppl and cleric CAN TANK TOO but when it comes to killing the boses clerics plz try and keep and eye out for ppl who need healng ask for it or need a rez.. I think i made my point thanks for reading it

We do say please, (atleast I do) and I do ask for rez's be it my own or not.

And we know clerics CAN tank, but they need to fit some extremely high equirements to out-tank a fighter.


As far as I know, you can't attract agro unless you have the highest damage.

Yeah but when all a monster has to do is see you, then chase your around, then when mages/fighters have to out DPS to keep the cleric alive so he can heal/rez and the cleric refuses to heal/rez the mage /fighter who save his/her butt, because they are so busy trying to make fighter go out of business/style/use , yeah................. Lets not forget this is 4 clerics doing this all at the same time.

[Shadowfiend]

Pointless. Useless. A cleric will never outtank a fighter even if cleric 2,3,4,5 lvls higher... Tanks have more deff and allrdy theyr own way they got more hp and str.. Clerics that try to solo...... Trust me u wont get far -.- :cool:

[Yoruko]

Pointless. Useless. A cleric will never outtank a fighter even if cleric 2,3,4,5 lvls higher... Tanks have more deff and allrdy theyr own way they got more hp and str.. Clerics that try to solo...... Trust me u wont get far -.- :cool:

The issue is really less about def and more about agro. Tanks have taunts, if a cleric is tanking they can't hold the mob off the dps classes and you have chaos. In the realm of pure damage mitigation cleric actually wins, cause come on if you have a cleric healing a cleric the mob has to one shot them to kill them. If a fighter's def advantage was really important they be FORCED to use sword/shield 100% of the time they're tanking but they can 2 hand tank(though I do prefer them using a shield).

Clerics can take the hits fine, the problem is holding agro on them and not the dps classes.

[IrBoredx3]

The issue is really less about def and more about agro. Tanks have taunts, if a cleric is tanking they can't hold the mob off the dps classes and you have chaos. In the realm of pure damage mitigation cleric actually wins, cause come on if you have a cleric healing a cleric the mob has to one shot them to kill them. If a fighter's def advantage was really important they be FORCED to use sword/shield 100% of the time they're tanking but they can 2 hand tank(though I do prefer them using a shield).

Clerics can take the hits fine, the problem is holding agro on them and not the dps classes.

i agree with Yoruko.Besides,clerics can tank.If you realise,they are the 2nd best to highest HP and Def.Don't make a big deal that clerics want to tank.