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nikki-urusaki
03-10-2010, 10:46 AM
Table of Contents
1.)Introduction
2.)Stats- What they do
3.)Free Stats
4.)Gear Stats
5.)Class In Depth~
6.)Fighter
7.)Mage
8.)Cleric
9.)Archer
10.)Thanks
11.)Help

nikki-urusaki
03-10-2010, 10:46 AM
Introduction
After spending quite some time in the game I've noticed that there are two types of players. Players who understand what their stats do, and players who don't. In this guide I hope to learn the players who don't know what their stats do, to use them to their advantage. This guide will hopefully create stronger players and maybe a few more KQ wins (big dream, I know.)
This is my first guide so obviously there may be a few mistakes. I will however write it with no skepticism, every class and build has their place. Even a DD fighter can be a tank if you know how to set up the rest of your stats to accomodate.

nikki-urusaki
03-10-2010, 10:47 AM
Stats- What They Do
In order to understand what stats you need, first you have to understant the principle of that stat and what it is there for. This is just a basic rundown of what you would choose this stat for. Later in free stat and gear stat explainations I will explain what benefits these stats have when chosen in those particular areas.

Str- The basis of physical damage. You want to hit hard? You need lots of this. The Strength stat works complimentary to your weapon damage. Meaning that if you have a strong weapon and low strength, you'll still hit pretty low. Or if you have high strength and a weak weapon you'll also hit low. Common sense, I know, but this explaination is to show that if you can't afford a strong weapon, don't choose strength.

End- Endurance free stat OR gear stat raises your max hp (health points) and defense. Both are very useful to all classes making this a very diserable stat. With enough endurance a DD (damage dealer {2 handed weapon/Axe weilding}) warrior will not even miss his/her shield.

Dex- This determines your aim and evasion. A very useful stat but not entirely necessary. If you don't plan on getting a lot of this, don't bother. It's useful to have but needs quite a bit of it to start showing results (especially for certain classes.)

Int- The basis of magic damage. Given that short explaination you should have already surmised it is useful only to mages. Not entirely true. Cleric Area of Effect (to be released) will be using intelligence as a damage factor. So if you see any cleric drops with int you may want to hold on to it.

Spr- In my oppinion this is the most useful stat. Every class needs some of it. Most good builds (free stat) include spr and its very helpful when found in gears. This stat determines your max sp and more importantly your magic defense. Mages or magic monsters hitting you too hard? Spirit is the answer. Skills drain your sp too fast? Again, spirit is your answer

nikki-urusaki
03-10-2010, 10:47 AM
Free Stats

Free stats are the stats that you choose to rise using stat points which you gain after every level (you also get some bonus points for every class change/promotion etc.) These stats with the exception of strength all have bonuses when you select them.

Strength- When you raise your strength in free stat your damage will rise by 1.2 for every point used. Therefor for every 5 free stat strength, you get an extra point of damage. Ex. 25 free stat strength equals 30 extra damage. Seeing as strength works with the weapon you use, this is actually more useful at higher levels. The stronger the weapon you can use, the more damage your strength adds.

Endurance- Free stat endurance raises your hp by 5, your defense by 0.5 and your shield defense by 0.1% This is very useful as a free stat seeing as it gives you very good bonuses. Keep in mind however, you MUST be using a shield to recieve shield bonus effects. It will say that you have the bonus, but it will not work without a shield. Also, after using 50 points in free stat the shield bonus decreases to 0.05% so unless you still want the hp and defense it's not as useful after 50.

Dexterity- Dexterity in free stat affects your evasion and aim by percentages and very differently for both. Evasion gains 0.2% for every point up until 50 points, after that it goes down to 0.1%. Every point placed in dexterity will also raise your aim by .3% until 33 points are put into it, then it is reduced to 0.2%. It also decreases to 0.1% after 68 points. This is a very useful stat for some classes and builds, but like I said, if you don't plan in having a lot of it, don't bother.

Intelligence- Free Stat intelligence has a lot of controversy over it. If you are a mage this free stat speaks only to you. No other class (except maybe clerics when the intelligence based AoE's arrive) will need this as a free stat. It raises your magic damage by 1.2 for every point used. A lot of people say that it has an extra benefit but I have nowhere near the time to research it fully so use at your own risk: They say that free stat int (namely the magic damage you receive from it) can strike through another players magic defense. Seeing as Mages who use free stat int seem to do more damage I personally feel that this is true.

Spirit: Free stat spirit is by FAR the most useful. Why? It raises your sp by 5, your magic defense by 0.5 and most importantly your critcal rate by .2%. Keep in mind however that after 25 points are put into Spr the critical rate bonus will drop down to 0.1% per point used.

nikki-urusaki
03-10-2010, 10:48 AM
Gear Stats

Gear Stats are quite a bit different from free stats but are still very very useful, at later levels, maybe more so. Keep in mind that every class has their own weakness, so when choosing the stats on your gear you need to:
1) Strengthen what is good about your class (example would be a mages magic damage, so go for int)
2) Throw out your weaknesses (example would be a clerics low damage, go for strength)
3) and choose other stats that help (an example would be a mages low aim, go for dex)
Below is a summary of what each stat does when found on your gear and equipped.
Also keep in mind that unlike free stat, your gear stat benifits do not drop. Meaning years down the line when they increase the cap to 200 and you have 400 end from your gear, you will recieve the same bonus as usual.
Strength- For every point on your gear you get .12 dmg. See where the free stat seems better?

Endurance- Every point of endurance on your gear gives you 5.5 hp and 1 defense. End on gears however will NOT increase your shield block rate.

Dexterity- Every point of dexterity on your gear gives +1 aim and evasion. Remeber this is not in percentages like free stat dexterity is and your percentage does not work ON this. Meaning if you have 232 evasion from your natural dex and free stat dex, 25 points of dex from your armor is still going to add only 25 points bringing it to 257

Intelligence- Just like str on gears, this adds 1 point of respective damage. However unlike free stat int this does not ignore your opponents magic defense. Therefor for a mage it is more important to have HIGH free stat int. If your gear has int on it, cool, but its more important to look for the things to help you survive.

Spirit- Again, my favorite for all classes. 5 points of sp per point and 1 point of magic defense. Any smart PvP fighter will have tons of this.

nikki-urusaki
03-10-2010, 10:48 AM
Class in Depth

In the next few posts I will explain how each stat both free AND gear benefits each class. It is very important to know your classes strengths and weaknesses so that you can choose a build accordingly. AFTER choosing a build, you need to choose gear with stats accordingly. A good example of this is a tank fighter. A tank fighter 9 times out of 10 will choose an endurance build. This gives him greater hp, defense and shield block rate. The problem is, no matter how much defense he has, a mage or monster who uses magic damage is still going to be a problem. Therefor the fighter should choose gear that has spirit on it. After enough spirit his weakness to magic damage is greatly reduced and he has just rid himself of his greatest weakness.

nikki-urusaki
03-10-2010, 10:49 AM
Fighter

To be honest, most servers have an abundance of fighters. Its the most played class. However in my oppinion, only a handful of these really need to be playing fighters. It is easy to survive as a fighter, but to excel as a fighter is something totally different (and no I don't mean by +9ing all of your gear.... it is a solution but honestly not everyone can afford it.)
The fighters main strenth their defense. Even if you don't work on it, it is usually better then most other classes. They also have much greater hp. Both of this are thanks to the high amounts of endurance a fighter gets naturally per level.
A fighters biggest weakness is his magic defense. You'll notice in pvp that if a fighter cannot stun a mage he usually dies.
Below is the advantages a fighter will receive for choosing both free stat and gear stats.

Free Stat Strength- This will give a fighter a much higher damage bonus than with gears. If you are lacking in damage putting a few points here will help. If you are playing as a tank fighter this is not the best place to put your points, the entire idea of being a tank is to have high defense and hp, meaning end.
Gear Strength- This gives a much lower damage bonus but at later levels buying all your gear with maxed out strength really adds up. In my oppinion this is a good stat to have for all fighters seeing as DD's need it to live up to their name and Tanks who are trying to quest would prefer NOT to take 3 hours to kill 12 monsters.

Free Stat Endurance- This stat is most desirable to fighters and clerics. Why? They are the only two classes who can use a shield. The shied block rate has a chance to completely absorb attacks which in some cases can save your life. On top of that, defense and hp are always great to have both for DDs and tanks.
Gear Endurance- A must have for tanker fighters and equally neccessary for DDs. A tank needs this to help bring his defense up, meaning less pain from the monsters you are keeping aggo from. DDs need this to make up for the defense lost from the shield and because most DDs shy away from free stat endurance.

All Intelligence- You will never ever need this. EVER. Even if outspark one day decides to make a skill based on int for fighter it is not worth losing any other stats for it. If a gear has int on it but has other stats you want or need, keep it. Otherwise... junk it its worthless.

Free Stat Dexterity- I think this is fairly useful. Its one thing to have great hp and defense but what if they couldnt touch you at all? Not great for Pvp but useful if you want better soloability
Gear Dex- Now this is very useful. You don't have to sacrifice any of your free stat points but you can still rid yourself of the low aim and evasion. This is really good to have for a DD fighter seeing as two handers and axes have relatively low aim.

Free Stat Spirit- I personally use this on every class. It's very useful to have for a fighter seeing as it raises magic defense and extra critical never hurts. I do however recommend that you don't raise it beyond 25.
Gear Spirit- EVERY fighter needs this. For whatever your reason, spirit is VERY good to have. If you pvp, stay alive against the mages, PvE stop running out of sp stones or getting mauled by vivis and mage books. You dont have to sacrifice any free stat points to help yourself against mages with this.

(What I do- I play as a level 66 fighter and I consider him a tank. For free stat I chose 25 points in spirit for the critical rate and magic defense, the rest of my points go into endurance. I really like this build because I usually have more hp and defense than the next fighter and I also can do some damage thanks to critcal hits. As far as gear goes, I look for End/Spr/Str gears. The endurance helps with hp and defense, the spirit is necessary for PvP against mages and the str fixes my low 1h damage problem.)

nikki-urusaki
03-10-2010, 10:49 AM
Mage

The mage is by far the most powerful class in the game. A person who knows how to strengthen a mage can hurl thousands of points of damage while still being able to take hits from the things trying to kill him. At the moment this would have to be my class of choice (I like blowing things up >.>.)
Strengths- Amazing damage. Sadly, thats it.
Weaknesses- Low aim, low weapon crit rate, and low hp/defense.
Dont be scared by a mages weaknesses. They are very easy to fix and some (low aim) fix themselves eventually.

All Strength- Unless you want to thwack your enemy to death.... dont use this. Its as useless as a fighter choosing int.

Free Stat End- Very useful, but not a must have. You can fix a mages problems through gears but it won't be a waste putting points here. To be honest you can still deal torrents of damage on a mage without putting a single point into int. In the end its your choice to either raise the hp and defense here or in gear stats (although I do know some manks who do both and are really hard to kill ;p)
Gear End- Now this is a must have for all mages. More defense and hp, where do I sign up right? Well tough luck kittens, most of the really good endurance mage gears will cost an arm and a leg to have. If you can't afford it, I suggest free stat end.

Free Stat Dex- I dont really reccomend this for a mage... it isnt as useful as other stats especially considering that around lvl 60 a mages aim problem goes away. Although as I said before, defense is one thing, what if they couldn't hit you at all?
Gear Dex- Now this is a lot more useful. I prefer getting dex here so I can save my points for more pressing matters like damage and defense so looking for dex gears is a great idea and you will benefit from it.

Free Stat Int- Very useful. You don't have to use this but I do. If you can solve a mages low defense and hp why not beef up his damage output? There is also the rumor that free stat int ignores magic defense. Again, use at your own risk because I have nowhere near the time and mathematical skill to try and prove this.
Gear Int- Also useful. I suggest both. More damage equals a happy mage. Again though, not necessary. When it comes to choosing between end/int go with end. A mage does great damage anyway, but if you can find some with both..... *evil wink*

Free stat Spr- Alright.... as a mage... I never run out of sp. Ever. If I have to restone its because of hp stones so really, sp isn't even a problem. However, critical rate is always a must have especially for mages. The higher your damage the higher a crit will hit, mages do the greatest damage so therefor their crits hit the hardest. I suggest 25 points but if you want to raise it higher (even though crit goes up very slowly after that) that is your decision. I knew a great mage who was pure spirit but knew to find int/end/dex gears and he was possibly the most difficult person in the world to PvP.
Gear Spr- Not the most useful thing in the world for a mage but if you find yourself running out of sp this is a quick fix. Also if you find that in PvP other mages are doing too much damage to you this also helps.

(What I do- I'm pretty new to the mage world but for the sake of this guide I asked around a lot. In my oppinion the greatest mages go either full int or 25 spr/full int. I went the second route. Seeing as my damage is just fine with my lvl 40 mage I decided to find end gears primarily. Although Im only level 40 Ive solo'd every boss so far even some kqs. Good build in my oppinion but its your choice, I'm only here to help.)

nikki-urusaki
03-10-2010, 10:50 AM
Cleric

I have to say, the cleric is the most versatile class in the game. This makes them a very hard class to choose a build for so if you are going to make a cleric make sure you put a lot of thought into how you are going to play them.
Strengths- Heal, need I say more?
Weaknesses- Low attack damage and no AoEs (excluding 100+)

Free Stat Str- I feel this is a must have for all clerics, even support clerics. Why? I don't know about you, but I like to play late nights so I don't always get a party. I kind of like being able to kill regular monsters in under 3 minutes.
Gear Str- Also very useful. If you can kill monsters quickly enough you won't miss those AoEs AS much.

Free Stat End- Not neccessary but helpful. If you want to play a support cleric this will help you survive when your heals pull aggro. However clerics have pretty good natural defense and hp (including the buffs which can be used on yourself) so its up to you. If you feel you need more hp and defense (also consider the shield block rate%) you really won't regret spending points here.
Gear End- As usual this is where I say I prefer it over free stat. I feel clerics need more of the other stats so I get my hp and defense here.

Free Stat Dex- You wouldn't think it, but a lot of clerics who go full dex do VERY nicely. The problem with clerics is that they have low damage and miss quite often. If you want to solo I'd reccomend points here. Its also somewhat useful for support clerics so that you evade attacks when you pull aggro using heal.
Gear Dex- Very useful for the same reason stated above. If you want to use your stat points for more useful things, get your aim and evasion here.

All Int- Useless. The only reason you would want this is for the new AoEs rumored to be coming out. Get your int in gear stat if that is the case, you have much more useful things to use your free stats on.

Free Stat Spr- Very useful. Damage from crits is always helpful and cleric skills are pretty expensive on sp, considering you have so many to use as well, I definitely reccomend this stat for both clanks and support clerics.
Gear Spr- Running out of stones healing your party? Gear Stat spr is the answer. This raises your sp and helps keep those pesky mage books and vivis from taking you down.

(What I do- I go through clerics quite often. I've played 5, the highest reaching lvl 68. In my oppinion clanks can be just as useful in parties as support clerics so long as they know how to raise the character. Not only that, if you can't hold aggro, don't clank. You're just going to lose the kq when everyone else dies because you aren't healing. My cleric build is 25 spirit for critical rate and extra sp, the rest goes into strength. As far as gears go my main concern is strength, but I look for spr and end also in case I need to support a party. I DO clank with this build, but I know when to back down and let the fighter do the job.)

nikki-urusaki
03-10-2010, 10:50 AM
Archer

In my oppinion this is the most difficult class to play and for many reasons. The greatest reason being, people don't understand why you want them in a party. Ever wonder why an archer gets a skill to reduce aggro? They do great amounts of damage thats why. Every bit of damage a monster takes from an archers attack, bleed or poison or venom adds to their aggro. Need a kill from a KQ? An archer is your answer. They may not hit as high as mages but it is constant damage and therefor more likely to get the last hit.
Strengths- Many kiting skills. Great Aim and Evasion.
Weaknesses- Other players who hate on archers.
I know this is a weird weakness but its true. An archer really has no weaknesses aside from the fact that other players can't see what makes them so great. So to fix the problem you need to be very aware of what you want out of an archer: Damage, Aim+evasion, or defense and hp.

Free Stat Str- I like this on archers. It is very helpful consider that they attack faster than other classes. Boost the strength and you may not do more damage than mages, but you also get about 5 hits to their 1.
Gear Str- Very useful for the same reason as above. I definitely reccomend this.

Free Stat End- Archers have relatively low defense and hp but their evasion and aim make up for this. If you find that you are getting hit too often either raise this or your dex.
Gear End- This is honestly useful for all classes. Archers are no exception. Dying too often, end or dex is the solution for an archer. That or learn how to kite better >.>

Free Stat Dex- Free stat dexterity raises by percentage. Archers have the HIGHEST natural aim and evasion out of all other classes meaning that they get the greatest boost from using stats here. I reccomend this along with str.
Gear Dex- You get a lot of this as an archer so raising it further just makes it more useful. I prefer looking for str but dex never hurts.

All Int- Useless useless useless.

Free Stat Spr- Higher crit rate is a must have for archers. why? Think about it. They attack the fastest out of all characters meaning the chances for crits rise. Get that crit rate up and you won't be disappointed.
Gear Spr- not the most useful thing to have for an archer but extra sp and magic defense never hurts. More useful at later levels when mages actually have SOME aim.

(What I do- I prefer the bow for its speed but that gives me a lack in power. Ive gotten 2 archers to lvl 60 but both builds I do not reccomend. What Im trying now is 25 spr for crit rate and pure dex. I also look for gears that have high str and dex on them to fix my low damage rating and to further increase my evasion. I'm planning on trying out an X-bow user eventually, when I do I will be using a 25 spr full str build with high dex/str gears.)

nikki-urusaki
03-10-2010, 10:51 AM
Thanks

In this post I will be giving credit to those who helped with the guide and for what reason I need to give them thanks. This will be the MOST changed post seeing as I feel that I left some stuff out and in case of errors (pretty sure there are none though) in the guide.
1.) Binkeh- Gotta give thanks for the mage build and gear suggestions. My mage is doing very well thanks to her. That and she's an awesome friend ^ ^
2.) Sera- Thanks for a couple of the free stat %'s. For an awesome figher guide, check out the one she wrote.

nikki-urusaki
03-10-2010, 11:11 AM
Help

I'll be checking back here once in a while for anyone who posts asking for help on a build. Just leave the class you want help with, what you want to acheive with this character (example would be a Mank, Clank, Support Cleric, Tank, Etc.) and I will try to help you along that path. Keep in mind this is a stat guide so if you are looking for help with skill points you may want to refer to a guide that helps with that. (Who knows, I may write one eventually if I find out that this one helps.)

bandycoot
03-10-2010, 03:03 PM
Awesome job hon!!! No thanks needed tho as I'm always just there to answer questions and give help when I can. <333's for you *huggles*

kckillem
03-10-2010, 04:40 PM
ummm somone was busy and i now my stats lol

nikki-urusaki
03-10-2010, 05:41 PM
Kc guides are for people who don't know ;p Good for you if you do know, but there are quite a few people who don't. If you don't need the guide, don't post ^ ^

gh3addict123
03-11-2010, 03:51 PM
Great guide, love it, just one thing i need to know...


Although Im only level 40 Ive solo'd every boss so far even some kqs.

TELL ME CHUR SECRET!!!! :D

cercia
03-12-2010, 08:58 AM
Archer

In my oppinion this is the most difficult class to play and for many reasons. The greatest reason being, people don't understand why you want them in a party. Ever wonder why an archer gets a skill to reduce aggro? They do great amounts of damage thats why. Every bit of damage a monster takes from an archers attack, bleed or poison or venom adds to their aggro. Need a kill from a KQ? An archer is your answer. They may not hit as high as mages but it is constant damage and therefor more likely to get the last hit.
Strengths- Many kiting skills. Great Aim and Evasion.
Weaknesses- Other players who hate on archers.
I know this is a weird weakness but its true. An archer really has no weaknesses aside from the fact that other players can't see what makes them so great. So to fix the problem you need to be very aware of what you want out of an archer: Damage, Aim+evasion, or defense and hp.

Not really. Archers are the class with the most bugs and the slowest fix time. After level 83, most of the archer's skills either don't work or are missing. Also, poison/bleed/venom can never kill - they'll best they'll do is leave the target at 1. On top of that, archers only deal the most damage in levels 1-20. After that, even full Str archers deal less damage than clerics on a per hit basis.

Free Stat Str- I like this on archers. It is very helpful consider that they attack faster than other classes. Boost the strength and you may not do more damage than mages, but you also get about 5 hits to their 1.
Gear Str- Very useful for the same reason as above. I definitely reccomend this.

You only get 5 hits to their 1 if you're using Nature's Speed and a bow. And that's assuming they don't try to kite you.

Free Stat Spr- Higher crit rate is a must have for archers. why? Think about it. They attack the fastest out of all characters meaning the chances for crits rise. Get that crit rate up and you won't be disappointed.
Gear Spr- not the most useful thing to have for an archer but extra sp and magic defense never hurts. More useful at later levels when mages actually have SOME aim.

No, archers actually have the second slowest attack rate in the game. Slowest if you take into account the likelyhood that from 51-74, their "useful" attack rate is basically 3s, and from 75+, that drops down to 1.5s.
The only way around this is Nature's Speed, which only works with the basic attack. On the other hand, I've heard that Hellgait Bows bolstered by Nature's Speed are a force to reckon with.

(What I do- I prefer the bow for its speed but that gives me a lack in power. Ive gotten 2 archers to lvl 60 but both builds I do not reccomend. What Im trying now is 25 spr for crit rate and pure dex. I also look for gears that have high str and dex on them to fix my low damage rating and to further increase my evasion. I'm planning on trying out an X-bow user eventually, when I do I will be using a 25 spr full str build with high dex/str gears.)

From level 51 onwards, you should have a crossbow. Simply should. Since your primary attack rate is 3s, the attack rate of the weaker bow is irrelevant; the crossbow simply does more damage. While keeping a bow around for a while might not be a bad idea for bosses, it is also expensive, and almost entirely impractical after level 75, at which point, using a bow is similar to putting End in your build - useful, but there's better out there.

Going a little bit further, my experiments in archery kinda brought about a few insights into archers and free stats. I recommend you check the thread if you haven't; I've no doubt it's useful knowledge.
My personal preference for archer gear is end/dex/spr, in roughly that order. I find that the killing speed is largely irrelevant at this point, though my understanding is that it will get much worse around the 9xs.


Just some commentary on this.

nikki-urusaki
03-12-2010, 01:09 PM
first off to reply to gh3 addict ^ ^ my mage has on only end gears. A little bit of int but I get my dmg from free stat int and high crit rate. This way I have the defense to sruvive and the damage to keep aggro even from archers (and no, none of my armor is +9 lol.) My secret really has already been told. I just follow my own guide xD

nikki-urusaki
03-12-2010, 01:19 PM
Now for Cercia. First off, I do have to say those are VERY good points. However it is mostly oppinion (aside from the skills not working, that does happen sadly.)
1.) I do see how that seemed like I was saying that bleed etc. can kill. I know it doesn't ^ ^ but you add that constant damage in with their other attacks plus the damage of your party, its a lot easier to get the last hit with an archer.
2.) If you use a bow you do end up getting 5 hits to a mages one. Thats due to the fact that mages only attack with skills. This is of course over a period of a battle. Its not like Im saying for every time they hit you once, you hit 5 times.
3.) When I was explaining how useful spr is for an archer I meant in general, not just with skills. If you build an archer correctly the skills are going to murder and the attacks between skills hurt too. Archers have the highest attack speed exluding lvl 70 blue cleric maces. You just read that one wrong but good point.
4.) Having a crossbow is an oppinion. I know people who use bows and dominate even after lvl 80. A crossbow is very useful because it works with SO many archer builds. However there a some builds (including free stat and gear stat) that having a bow actually helps more. One instance is having full korin (lvl 75 archer blue which increases nature speed) with godly strength and a blue lvl 70 bow (keep in mind it doesnt even have to be THAT godly to still be as effective as a crossbow). The massive strength behind that attack speed will allow you to do the damage most other archers get with using a skill while having a crossbow, with your bow. It all depends on how you build and play.

Thanks for posting. A lot of what you said makes sense and I can tell you understand how you play your character. Anyone could benefit from listening to both what I said and what you said, yours is just more oppinionated. Thanks again ^ ^ hope that cleared some things up

cercia
03-12-2010, 02:12 PM
Now for Cercia. First off, I do have to say those are VERY good points. However it is mostly oppinion (aside from the skills not working, that does happen sadly.)

All of it is math, actually, except for the armor stat preference. If you want, I can lay out the formulas and you can draw the conclusions from there.

1.) I do see how that seemed like I was saying that bleed etc. can kill. I know it doesn't ^ ^ but you add that constant damage in with their other attacks plus the damage of your party, its a lot easier to get the last hit with an archer.

It's arguably just as easy as on a fighter or a cleric. Most of it is timing, and often reserving an instant cast skill. Perhaps there seems to be a bias because most archers are largely idle (waiting for cool times of single target skills), most fighters are tanking (and thus spamming to hold aggro), and most clerics are out of the combat area. Or, perhaps like in my experiment commentary, you are looking for certain things and acknowledging when it happens, and forgetting when it doesn't.

2.) If you use a bow you do end up getting 5 hits to a mages one. Thats due to the fact that mages only attack with skills. This is of course over a period of a battle. Its not like Im saying for every time they hit you once, you hit 5 times.

And most archers kite mages until they get Nature's Speed, at which point, they NS + Bow them. During the kiting period, the attack rate isn't quite 5:1 A:M; its variable based upon level of the archer and what skills she has available.

3.) When I was explaining how useful spr is for an archer I meant in general, not just with skills. If you build an archer correctly the skills are going to murder and the attacks between skills hurt too. Archers have the highest attack speed excluding lvl 70 blue cleric maces. You just read that one wrong but good point.

No, I read it correctly. The only part of it that I care to dispute is the attack speed. Looking at the starting weapons, all of them have a 1.1s attack rate, except staves, which have a 1.3s attack rate (though a fully cooled lv1 MM has roughly a 1s attack rate, including cast time). These speeds do not change. Of the weapons that open up at 20, Hammer and 2H have 1.3s rates, Wand and Crossbow have 1.4s, and Axe has 1.5s. Since wands are skill-based anyways (like staves), that puts crossbow as really the only 1.4s weapon. Blue weapons, in all cases except staves, drop the attack rate by 0.1s, meaning blue 1hs have a 1.0s attack rate - the same as a blue mace or bow.

4.) Having a crossbow is an opinion. I know people who use bows and dominate even after lvl 80. A crossbow is very useful because it works with SO many archer builds. However there a some builds (including free stat and gear stat) that having a bow actually helps more. One instance is having full korin (lvl 75 archer blue which increases nature speed) with godly strength and a blue lvl 70 bow (keep in mind it doesn't even have to be THAT godly to still be as effective as a crossbow). The massive strength behind that attack speed will allow you to do the damage most other archers get with using a skill while having a crossbow, with your bow. It all depends on how you build and play.

Except...not. Bows are superior for 1v1, where the archer can stand still at times (and thus use NS and/or the full potential of free stat Str), and in regards to PvP, needs the faster attack rate in order for the damage to not be outstoned/pot'd. In normal PvE, crossbow is just mathematically superior once the archer begins aoe kiting (which, for some people, is as early as 35).

Counterarguments.

nikki-urusaki
03-12-2010, 07:23 PM
Again I do have to say that those are very good arguments but again you are missing the point of what I am saying for it and while mathematically your eqation is sound (I know what you're talking about by the way) it is an equation based on bias. I'll try to be a little more clear this time but again conterarguments are welcome (I didnt write a guide for people to blindly listen to what I have to say, I kind of like proving my methods).
1.) It is just as easy for any class and I do not deny this. All it takes is timing and voila you get the kill. But that takes a lot of math to boil down to the exact second you need to use your skill in order to guarantee the last hit. What I am merely saying is that an archers skills + fast and strong normal hits you do raise your chances. There is no way to deny that. It would be like giving an axe fighter (high dmg) the attack speed of a one hander (speed.)
2.) Yet again very true but yet again you miss my point. First off that was not a pvp statement. While archers do kite them (by the way to everyone reading there is no shame in this. Fighters have the defense, mages have the high damage skill and you have kiting. Use it) I was speaking in more of a general sense. And a long term sense. In pvp for better or worse an archer/mage battle ends fairly quickly. However in PvE go fight a boss monster with a mage. Count how many times you hit him in lets say.... 1 minute. Then try the same boss on an archer. About 5 hits to their one. (see what I mean by in a broad sense now? lol)
3.) I admit defeat here. To be honest I was talking about bows not xbows but you have defeated me here. 1hs DO have the same attack rate so therefor bows are not the fastest weapon. But still my point is still very true. Get that str and spr up and (just the same with a 1h fighter with a 25 spr rest end build, but looks for str gears) you will notice you do a lot more damage and can wreak some havoc without switching to other, more powerful but slower weapons.
4.) Again on this point I see yours, but it is still an oppinion. A very good oppionion and one that is agreed upon more often than not but still. While the xbow undoubtedly does more damage and has a higher crit rating, the bow has its uses and as I said before those uses are only for certain builds. You can still pve with a bow and just as well if not better if you know HOW. It takes a lot of thought and planning with both your skill points, your gears and your stat points. Without knowing how to use a bow properly after a certain level it really does lose its edge and pales in comparison to the xbow. But again this is merely because of builds and skill point uses. Go for a PvE build. Get gears that compliment that build and be picky. You'll notice you like bows much more at those levels. Even while mobbing and even before natures speed. There is a reason that the bow is even in the game, it has its uses.

nikki-urusaki
03-12-2010, 07:24 PM
And again, conterarguements are welcome ^ ^ My way is one way, your way is another. Eventually one way is going to help someone. The point of this guide ;p

cosmo25
03-12-2010, 08:41 PM
Good Job Nikki......Ill let you know how my archer (25spr, 50 dex. rest str) does.....;)

nikki-urusaki
03-13-2010, 09:41 PM
I'll be waiting to hear ;p

nikki-urusaki
04-02-2010, 03:02 AM
Fixing a few errors in the guide now ;p

nikki-urusaki
05-25-2010, 04:45 AM
finished *-* and bumples lol

yuuya88
05-25-2010, 06:16 AM
*pays respect*

You must be the legendary Seiji Aki

It's yuu here :D