For the Good f our server: Peition to Players

[Orchids_Mantis]

I know many of you are trying to be nice to the newbies (not noobies, different word) in FoT and Roumen these days, by helping them with quests by killing mobs for them -and by buffing them, and I can kind of understand and even respect that notion; but I do believe it is something we should either lessen, or discontinue -and for a simple reason: Newbes need to have that learning experience when they start out. Newbies NEED to die.

Buffing that level 1 archer is nice and all...but that archer needs to learn not to attack mobs that do 1/2 their natural hp in 1 hit.

Killing Mushroom Fighter for the clueless level 5 fighter with no skills is a good sentiment, but that fighter needs to learn to buy/use skills.

Your heart's in the right place, killing the bored imp gang for the cleric, but that clerice needs to learn to use stones and heals when hit to avoid dieing.


Those of you that are trying to help, it's good you want to, but what new players need more than powerlevels and buffs is actual guidance and explanation. Talk to the new players and tell them how to kill the mob that just killed them (stones/skills), tell them about how to use tactics to kill off multiple mobs.

Killing the mobs for them, powerlveling them, bugffing them so they are practiclly invincible until level 20...it's like giving them answers to basic math...then sending them to algebra class (higher levels) and expecting them to do well. This is one way we turn newbs into noobs.



As such, I make this petition:, that we stop buffing, powerleveling and killing quest mobs for newbies in low level areas, and instead move on to mentoring them -telling them how to play the game better, to reduce the number of noobs that we will have on our servers in the future.


(it's late here, so this is not my best wording on the matter, but I believe the point is understandable)

[Mindspank]

"I know many of you are trying to be nice to the newbies (not noobies, different word) in FoT and Roumen these days, by helping them with quests by killing mobs for them -and by buffing them, and I can kind of understand and even respect that notion; but I do believe it is something we should either lessen, or discontinue -and for a simple reason: Newbes need to have that learning experience when they start out. Newbies NEED to die.

Buffing that level 1 archer is nice and all...but that archer needs to learn not to attack mobs that do 1/2 their natural hp in 1 hit.

Killing Mushroom Fighter for the clueless level 5 fighter with no skills is a good sentiment, but that fighter needs to learn to buy/use skills.

Your heart's in the right place, killing the bored imp gang for the cleric, but that clerice needs to learn to use stones and heals when hit to avoid dieing.


Those of you that are trying to help, it's good you want to, but what new players need more than powerlevels and buffs is actual guidance and explanation. Talk to the new players and tell them how to kill the mob that just killed them (stones/skills), tell them about how to use tactics to kill off multiple mobs.

Killing the mobs for them, powerlveling them, bugffing them so they are practiclly invincible until level 20...it's like giving them answers to basic math...then sending them to algebra class (higher levels) and expecting them to do well. This is one way we turn newbs into noobs.



As such, I make this petition:, that we stop buffing, powerleveling and killing quest mobs for newbies in low level areas, and instead move on to mentoring them -telling them how to play the game better, to reduce the number of noobs that we will have on our servers in the future."

Quoted for truth.

[Ciocolajs]

Quoted for truth.

HOly crap what are you doing here lol
EDIT: Nice welcome i know,
EDIT EDIT the second!: I helped a nub kill ratmen fighter QQ. And i help people as much as i can with info whenever they ask about something (sun)

[killerallv]

ya i agree totally, new generation of players are all useless,they don't know how to play the game they rely on other people, and use dirty ways to make money

[fightnowtalklater]

Meh, on bijou no new players ever come up anyways, people just quit and come back with a new account.. :(

[12markkram34]

I support, only because high-level areas are overcrowded as is.

[DANk1]

dont matter if u help them or not
they'll quit anyway
and come back half a year later fully loaded with sc and let the money do their talking not their skills
then what?
u got a super newbie :D
also the noobs arent babies .. theyre not stupid they have to learn sooner or later the hard way if they wanna keep playing.
EDIT: then u have the pkers who never lvl and all they learn is how to kill people 10 lvls lower than them cause they know they cant succeed at higher lvls so...hmmm

[Linabella]

i agree about quest helping and such but not with the buffing thing xD idk about other clerics but i liked going to roumen and buffing the low lvles, it helps a lot and only lasts an hour, so its not that big of a deal

[Orchids_Mantis]

i agree about quest helping and such but not with the buffing thing xD idk about other clerics but i liked going to roumen and buffing the low lvles, it helps a lot and only lasts an hour, so its not that big of a deal

An hour is level 1 to level 12. by level 12 you should know how to use stones, skills and minihouse, but I'm seeing a lot of players at those levels that don't know how to use minihouses or use stones effectively because they're used to having 10x their normal hp.


Personally, aside from buffing someone that needs to kill Mara, I don't think casting endure on players under level 20 should be needed.

[BloodMage78]

I played for 2 years and I never hit anything higher then 89

[emilylalala]

o.o idk, but giving a level 1 1.2k hp just makes me giggle. :3

But I definitely agree on plvling. o.o I never offer it, except for maybe to get through one tough level to a friend with no quests left or something. :/ Meh, it's really sad to see all these people willing to pay for plvls these days. I've made quite a few alts, and I personally find it fun going through and doing all the quests and grinding with my friend the old fashioned way. o=

[luckywalker07]

An hour is level 1 to level 12. by level 12 you should know how to use stones, skills and minihouse, but I'm seeing a lot of players at those levels that don't know how to use minihouses or use stones effectively because they're used to having 10x their normal hp.


Personally, aside from buffing someone that needs to kill Mara, I don't think casting endure on players under level 20 should be needed.

Let me just say, I'm 50/50 with you on this. But I don't think plvling is the problem and I certainly don't think its buffing people. I learned how to use my skills and stones from either trial and error or asking someone else. To prevent "noobs" you have to actively help prevent it by guiding them.

If you think you can do that be all of their masters and help them that way.

[darknightofwind]

I had buffs at lower levels, people help me with quests and bosses, and I think I turned out fine o.o;

I generally don't mind helping someone if they're 'stuck'. Eg: didn't plan ahead and have no quests, they're at some level with no one to help them quest, and/or keep dying from lag / squishyness.

I don't mind giving people a little 'boost' now and again to help finish off a level. Especially if it's for something like 59->60 on mages or 50->51 on archers, or if it's a one time thing. If an apprentice / acady keeps asking continuously for some 'help' then I'm less likely to help.. especially when it's for the entire level o.e

I also don't mind keeping someone company and keeping them alive, I truly know how squishy a mage + archer can be, or how lonely grinding / questing can be. Or even how laggy heals can kill everyone, including yourself.

I generally try to offer advice with what quests to save / do, what skills to empower (even if it means searching the forums and asking friends for a day or two), and how to avoid making mistakes my guildies, friends, and myself have made. (eg: empowering multi-shot. it seems like a fantastic idea till you hit 51 xD (<3 shirp shirp :P).

I think the problem is more that people (in general) have no drive to learn how to play the game. And the other main problem from a quote:

The game now caters to the mentality its okay to suck as long as you have money you will do fine.

Whether that be IG money (for plvls) or IRL (for sc), as long as you have it, chances are someone will cater to your wants.

Just my two cents. /end rant

[DANk1]

lmao somehow kyo_sama ends up in this thread, funny
question to the o.p. for the good F of our server?
f = ?

[darknightofwind]

lmao somehow kyo_sama ends up in this thread, funny
question to the o.p. for the good F of our server?
f = ?

I thought the quote fit :c

It's 'For the Good [O]f our Server' I think o.o....

[Ciocolajs]

But I definitely agree on plvling. o.o I never offer it, except for maybe to get through one tough level to a friend with no quests left or something. :/ Meh, it's really sad to see all these people willing to pay for plvls these days. I've made quite a few alts, and I personally find it fun going through and doing all the quests and grinding with my friend the old fashioned way. o=

thats how im leveling my alt fighter atm , the old way. Leveling my Knight was alot harder though. It was pure grinding XD. So it was kinda fun to see how its nowdays to level. Find powerleveling Boring, since you miss out on the "OH i got level 50,60,70, and worked for it myself" :P

[wiikkyd]

Meh, on bijou no new players ever come up anyways, people just quit and come back with a new account.. :(

stalker! stop describing me ;-;


And meh. D: That's why when you help them, you explain to them what they're doing wrong c:

[harequil]

But but but... I really like taking my friends' nub characters to party, buffing them and running with them through higher level areas. xD <3 It's fun.

[Odrioll]

Well from my point of view, I'm having some fun at times getting on my very newb archer, and I have to admit that I'm buffed by a fellow cleric everytime i go to town x_x.

There are 2 or 3 sides to the consequences :
* It's nice to see cleric who are not ranting around just because some noob asked for a buff : now clerics gently buffs little players without them asking.
* Indeed, it's bad for the person who doesn't know a thing about fiesta and gets 800hp instead of 100. He won't know how to use skills and stones, which are essential. Not to mention house system. I remember I had to use my pink house every 3 mobs with my mage and wait forever for my hp to go up back when i was starting the game. Somehow fun :)
* It helps people who know the game significantly. Cause they know how to play, and a buff is just a buff.

For the quest-help thing, I happened to help some lowbies to kill ratman knight or mara because they can be a pain to kill in solo. This apart, this our duty to refuse to help them to grind/quest. I've been DT'ing lately, and it's really annoying to see fighters who have no clue of how mock works, or clerics who never empowered their heals... No wonder how they lvl'ed until 8x...

[darknyss2]

It doesn't hurt to plvl a friend sometimes, when he/she runs out of quests. But if they rely on it too much then they will just get lazy and complain about how they're 'stuck on a certain level'. :x

[xkeonix]

stalker! stop describing me ;-;


And meh. D: That's why when you help them, you explain to them what they're doing wrong c:

Xhe.,on!!!!!11!11!! *moan*

uh.. @ OP~ I completely agree~ :3

[RyaikenDune]

This thread is win.
Don't buff/plvl/help them now and they won't spam you for plvling when they hit 40 and the game starts to get a LITTLE challenging. This is especially relevant in Bijou with loads of high levelled players bored out of their minds. ^^

[Mindspank]

But I definitely agree on plvling. o.o I never offer it, except for maybe to get through one tough level to a friend with no quests left or something. :/ Meh, it's really sad to see all these people willing to pay for plvls these days. I've made quite a few alts, and I personally find it fun going through and doing all the quests and grinding with my friend the old fashioned way. o=

I find it quite ironic, and mildly humerous, that you would say that here. Don't forget that most of the server knows how you got where you are, they just opt to say nothing about it.

There are numerous examples of why this would be bad, in any MMO to be honest. The best you can do is to try to cut it off at the bud. But given the lifespan of F2P MMO's, it might already be too late, and the damage has already been done.

[emilylalala]

o.0 Hm, not sure exactly what you're talking about there... if you're referring to power levels, that's certainly not the case. I've never been afk while someone else killed things for me, and I always contribute heals.. as that is what a cleric does.

So whatever floats your boat there, but I've been playing my archer lately with Dan's cleric, and I really have been enjoying the fun of actually being the one to kill things. >:3 Plus Spider KQ, my long forgotten love, which no one seems to join anymore. :(

[Orchids_Mantis]

I'm not sure, but most of you seem to be thinking I mean "don't help at all", thaty's not what I mean.

The idea of this is primarily targetted at players under level 10 -the first few crucial hours of playing where you are supposed to learn the basics. In that time you are not sent up against anything you absolutely cannot kill IF you know how to play. If the mob kills you it's because there is something you haven't learned yet (stones with Mshroom Fighter, skills with Bored Imps, minihouse resting with normal Imps/Fire Mushrooms/Crabs).

Those are the levels where I think we should not be powerleveling newbs or killing quest mobs for them, as these are the levels with the greatest learning curve -and it is designed to do that.

Ratman Knight, Mara, those are challenging enemies you fight after you have developed an understanding of the core fundamentals of the game and I can see helping with those -especially as it's hard to make parties these days in lower level maps.


Also, I am not saying to leave them alone to fend for themselves, I think that those people that do want to help new players should be willing to take the time to explain the concepts that they need to understand so that they can complete the quests themselves. Rather than killing the Bored Imp Gang for them, explain that they can buy skills which kill faster and armor from the smith to increase defense -and that they can wait a level to kill them and the quest will still be completable. Instead of buffing the mage killed by Mushroom Fighter, tell them how to use stones from the skillbar and remind them that starting with Ice Bolt slows the mob down.


All I'm really saying is, if you want to help newbies, take the time to teach them, don't just do the work for them.


....I still don't think anyone under level 20 should ever need a buff, though...

[FatalLace]

buff them all!!!

they provide great fodder later on :)


but in all seriousness, i think u have a point. i wanna write more but am pressed for time... i'll revisit this later.

[ike24]

ya i agree totally, new generation of players are all useless,they don't know how to play the game they rely on other people, and use dirty ways to make money

i'll stop lap dancing for money >.>

[Orchids_Mantis]

Well, I'll make an example of my point:

In Fot earlier on an alt (I like making low level alts and having people brag to me about having 2X "mains" while I'm teaching someone how to play) I saw a level 3 archer get flattened by a Hero Slime -she used a stone (stood still to use it), but never used her attack skill. I went up to her when she came back and started talking to her. After a minute or two I started telling her about free stat points, stones and skills -since it seemed she didn't know about any of these. While talking to her I saw another archer, level 4, also get killed by a Hero Slime -she never used stones or skills. She ported to town and came back a few minutes after with 800hp and killed the Hero Slime -still without stones or skills. I finished talking to the level 3 archer, then gave her a few T1 potions, and she proceeded to avenge herself on the Hero Slime (initially she wanted me to kill it for her, since my alt was level 9).

yes I could have killed the hero Slime for her -and it would have been faster and easier for both of us, but she would simply have gotten stuck again later on when she had to fight Mushroom Fighters or Bored Imps. Yes, the cleric that buffed the second archer helped her kill her quest mob, but did it really help the player? I don't think so, as she still doesn't know how to use skills or stones; whereas by teaching the level 3 archer, there has been introduced to our server a player more competent and knowledgable in Fiesta's gameplay.

[FatalLace]

the thing is Ao, not many of us have the time, nor the energy or patience to walk newbies through the basics of gameplay. it's commendable that you do take time out to do this, i do this to an extent with mid/mid-high level players more so than those just starting out. i help those that i mentor, i tell them beforehand that i do not powerlevel, but i'm more than happy to guide them through more advanced gameplay techniques, build advice, party dynamics, etc.

one problem i do have though is that it's sometimes hard to relate with some players because of just different financial situations (both in-game and SC), when i was leveling up my mage without +9s, the game was vastly different, early 79 cap... so i find it difficult to give some advice based on the limitations of my apprentice. for instance, i have an apprenticed mage that is 7x with full +0 gear asking me where he can solo grind... i want to show him how to solo aoe using a mover and a speed scroll on an area like BCTs, but the fact that he's pulling on a hobby and his armor is inadequate for the technique, i can't relate. from that point i can only encourage him to find a party or take mobs on in much smaller bunches. i do offer money-making tips as many up-and-coming players rely solely on quest rewards, academy rewards, and selling off their materials to other players for income.

i'm starting to go off on a tangent and i actually wanted to write more, but it's straying so i'll withhold... this is a good topic though.

from a buffing cleric's point of view, it's just easier to give the newbies this little bit of kindness and send them on their way. if the newbie comes up asking for a buff, i'm not going to deny them and tell them i'm doing them a favor. that seems quite arrogant in my opinion. if the player enjoys fiesta, they'll learn the ropes soon enough and they can seek out help on their own.

[Mindspank]

"if the player enjoys fiesta, they'll learn the ropes soon enough and they can seek out help on their own."

Or they will sponge off of everyone else, and nobody will ever know how completely worthless they are until that player gets invited to a big guild, costs them some wars and maybe a guild tournament. By the time they are realized to be a liability, the damage to the guilds reputation as an effective unit has already been tarnished.

Enjoying the game is not enough if your a lazy, self entitled mooch. You have to have the desire to better yourself and seek the knowledge you want, and not just rely on everyone to get it. If you constantly hold out things on a silver platter, the implications can have long reaching effects. A lot of the high levels in Fiesta (At the time of my departure) were hard working, self motivated grinders and go getters. They were self sufficient.

I look around now and I see people who never did anything for themselves and constantly rode the backs of others reaching levels 100+, when in truth they should never have even passed 90 by this point. When all of the old players leave, all that's gonna be left are a bunch of high leveld noobs who look to other people to do things for them. This game's community is largely to blame for the way things are now. Nobody has the time to teach, they just want to appease you so you stop bothering them. Being dismissive has now cost you a pool of useless players by filling it with worthless waffle.

I went on a rant about this -->over a year ago (http://outspark.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2319159&postcount=1)<--, but apparantly people thought I was full of crap. I guess now looking back, some of you realize that I was not full of crap, and actually had a point.

[homie2]

Let all the noobs die

[FatalLace]

Or they will sponge off of everyone else, and nobody will ever know how completely worthless they are until that player gets invited to a big guild, costs them some wars and maybe a guild tournament. By the time they are realized to be a liability, the damage to the guilds reputation as an effective unit has already been tarnished.

If that is the case, the guild itself is to blame for not researching, scrutinizing, and scouting their applicants beforehand. If this player happened to fall through the cracks and still make it in, the guild should then become instructional in itself. there should be enough guild parties, KQ experiences, Instance runs, for someone to point out this player's deficiencies and lend help and advice. if that player is too arrogant to accept it, then they have no place in that guild.


Enjoying the game is not enough if your a lazy, self entitled mooch. You have to have the desire to better yourself and seek the knowledge you want, and not just rely on everyone to get it. If you constantly hold out things on a silver platter, the implications can have long reaching effects. A lot of the high levels in Fiesta (At the time of my departure) were hard working, self motivated grinders and go getters. They were self sufficient.

I look around now and I see people who never did anything for themselves and constantly rode the backs of others reaching levels 100+, when in truth they should never have even passed 90 by this point. When all of the old players leave, all that's gonna be left are a bunch of high leveld noobs who look to other people to do things for them. This game's community is largely to blame for the way things are now. Nobody has the time to teach, they just want to appease you so you stop bothering them. Being dismissive has now cost you a pool of useless players by filling it with worthless waffle.

I went on a rant about this -->over a year ago (http://outspark.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2319159&postcount=1)<--, but apparantly people thought I was full of crap. I guess now looking back, some of you realize that I was not full of crap, and actually had a point.

just got through reading over the thread you linked, skimmed the comments, but read all of your posts carefully and you do make valid points. it's sad that that particular thread got buried in the archer subforum as it could have had a bigger audience elsewhere.

thinking back to when NoMercy was around in regards to academy chat, acad chat oftentimes gets flooded with questions that were sometimes answered, but oftentimes not. questions range from pricing of items, to builds, to pvp strategy, to requests for gold, requests for powerleveling, quest help, production skills, etc. to even people just wanting to chat up a well known higher leveled player. it is a somewhat constant bombardment. i helped when i could, but if i'm out questing or grinding myself, it's difficult to engage in a lengthy discussion about empowerments while i'm AOE'ing myself.

one of the biggest problems, that surprisingly u didn't touch on (or delve deeply into), is the way academies are generally run to maximize points and buff time instead of using the academy (as it was probably intended) to teach. the roster of academy members now, in most guilds especially the ones offering the best rewards, is completely free-flowing. there is little consistency as academy members routinely get kicked out as they log out. in a system like that, what incentive is there to teach someone that probably won't be there tomorrow? what incentive is there to teach someone that really has no chance of being accepted into the guild itself upon graduation? i don't defend the mass bannings of academy members, honestly, i think it's an abhorrent practice, but i also feel that academy members should be recruited and not allowed to just join on their own.

i have no problem helping players out, fielding questions, and showing them techniques to better their abilities. but sometimes, players just don't get it or their thinking of how they should play their class contradicts my own, especially fighters. oftentimes, i'll sit in my estate in elderine just chatting up newbies, and the consensus really is that there just isn't help for people looking for it. some are intimidated by the high leveled players or have had rude experiences when they did ask a legitimate question, they don't know how to use the forum or are intimidated by players here as well. they're typically shocked and pleased that i'm more than willing to chat with them a bit.

one thing to consider though is that you have to find the right newbie to mentor. there are those that do become lazy, expect powerlevels, free equipment, or whatever, and this has turned off many players from even bothering with the lowbie populace, and i can sympathize with that too. those that i have most successfully mentored are those players that i have actually duoed with and lent advice as we played.

[fatefulgrace]

>_> Thanks fatal, saved me quite some time to type that out.
Maner is, the more we class them, ignore them, use them for guild buffs, give them false taste of their actually extent of their character with over powerful buffs and powerleveling doesn't help them at all.
I agree about having to recuriting acad members. Not just have them flow in and out.
For the PvPers,
Unless they actually know how to play, killing them in the abyss is only as fun as playing a fighting game on versus mode where you continually laugh at the imaginary player2 while you beat him without a single chance of resistance.

[Mindspank]

Honestly, when I began playing again after being in Korea I came back to the Academy system (While inheriently the same in KFiesta, the noobs there are not the same.) I believe that had the academy system been designed with the idea of really teaching beginners and potential guild recruits, instead of a way to see low leveled players as a resource, the playerbase would be vastly different. The academy system should have been the apprentice system honestly. I never liked it in KFiesta, but people for the most part never went willy nilly and joined tonnes of academys just for the rewards. Then again I could never read the chat, except for the hellos, thank you's and pleases. My hangul is atrocious. When I asked my korean roommate, he explained to me that people that joined and got booted joined for the wrong reason or without invite. They only really kept potential recruits in academy.

I really think with a little bit of work, Fiesta could have been a better game because of it's community. But being that the community is, well, more of a high school caffeteria segregated willingly by the cliques you fall into, it just makes the technical flaws in the game that much more glaring.

As for high leveled players being intimidating, you really shouldn't be intimidated to ask for help. If you do and the guy's a d-nozzle, find someone else. Chances are SOMEONE has the answer to your question, the trick is finding them. Your biggest indicator that the noob your scouting in FoM is going to be one worth keeping is their ability to communicate their needs, and willingness to teach others. Everyone is going to need gear and money, you cant rule that out. but test them. Put them in a situation where they have the potential to teach someone else some things you have taught them. If they in turn take the time to teach someone else, even if it's just to tell them about stones, they are worth keeping.

Mentoring individuals is a lot like having children. You don't want to share your knowledge with someone who is not going to pass it forward. If you continue to mentor the wrong players, all of your efforts will be for nothing, as nobody will ever really learn anything, and that same goon will be begging people for help at every stop because HE never really learned anything either.

Welcome to the future of america.

[theredlight]

First of all, a little off topic I apologize but i remember when MindSpank was my little newb D: <3


Okay back on topic, I agree that Plvls just increase the number of noobs at high levels and Each level should be worked for, which is why I'm looking forward to the next cap and prey OS doesn't add another mimic like quest to get max lvl. it will weed out the actual players from the people who in a sense piggy-backed their way to higher levels. But i don't think the problem is as big as is lead on to be. About lv40 is where, unless you have some one who is extremely bored and doesn't mind Plvling for a few hours, most noobs quit of boredom. And another "barrier" around 73 where quests are few and not enough to lvl. I almost stopped when I first got there my first time, out of sheer boredom. But I pushed through and even before mimic quest came out put in 8-10 hour grind sessions. Back to my point of Cap raise, I honestly don't think these noobs will ever get max as long as OS doesn't put in "broken" quests. And who would really want to plvl a Lv100 for over 400million exp, the time it would take just isn't worth it.


In Summary : Cap raise will help weed out any straggling noobs that were able to get past certain natural Lvl barriers set in game. [Side Note ~ I prefer to refer to these noobs as Target Practice]

[Edit: After reading what every one has said I've decided to dedicate a portion of my time to help newbie archers better understand the fundamentals of being an archer. whether it be basics of kiting, where to grind or any other tips and tricks I've picked up. But of course I'm not going to Plvl any of them. Hope this will at least produce some decent archers higher lvl. The archer community past 90 is way to small in comparison to other classes]

[noddalives]

Well that was a lot of matter for me to take in, i do agree with most points but youve got to remember that the reason there is mass banning(i had to do that myself on monday) is because of the lack of space. I had been receiving numerous whispers for about a week before i cleaned academy, the problem was that academy members had quit and so we had an academy full of inactive members. People play the game, get stuck or bored and then quit. I had some point to make but i had to go unstack the dishwasher midway through my post so im just gonna post what i got yeah.

[Mindspank]

"First of all, a little off topic I apologize but i remember when MindSpank was my little newb D: <3"

I remember teaching you how to kite.

I may not have been a cool dude, but my apprentices were untouchable archers. Well, the ones who chose to listen anyways. a point that was made in my archer rant, was that the beta players had nobody to teach them anything, so the new players should be the same. That is an erroneous statement. People, by nature, are different. Some people grasp concepts faster than others. It's these people that were able to mentor the beta generation, and create the caliber of players that came to be the capped players that exist now. Except for dragonfly77. I doubt she will ever cap. :p

My point being: Someone was always around to teach someone else something, even in the beta days. This knowledge was passed down less and less, and begging/plvls became all too common. When I wrote that post about the archers, there was a lot of talk about people quitting because there was no challenge in PvP. Nobody was ever as good as <insert name here>. They seemed to do a lot of complaining, but when it came time to mentor new players, they fell short.

redlight hits on a good point, about players quitting at critical times, and in certain intervals. Level 40, 75, 80. I think that, had these players had a good mentor, he would have taught them how to stack quests and stockpile them so as to never really have to grind excessively. When I was a young archer, this was advised to me by another archer, and he was right. I never really had to grind more than 15 ~ 20% on a level. 25 ~ 30% if I messed up and turned in a big quest too soon. Everyone griped about level 80 ~ 90. Especially 87 ~ 89.

I NEVER had an issue with this level range. I had issues with dying too much doing kidmons without an extender (due to the high traffic, training was almost unavoidable), but recouping that lost exp was never a problem, and neither was leveling. The musicbox series of quests, more of an irritation, but I finished it (With some help from _MythicBliss_, w00t) The words of one player early on made my entire leveling experience up to 90 much easier than my peers.

But then again, everyone is different.

[Ciocolajs]

Ultimate reason = people are just lazy
They go from "easy " to hardand thats when they give up.

[noddalives]

i agree with eldirecto there, you see who is gonna stick around by how they beat the milestones

[hamsterfest]

I played for 2 years and I never hit anything higher then 89

I played for 2+ years and just yesterday I hit my first 74 .-. I win >.o

Nice thread though. But will it change much of anything? No I don't think so. Most of what I've noticed people love doing is plvling their friends, getting sc'ed up and pwning lower leveled players in guild wars, and making ig money money money by constantly hiking prices up on cheap sh*tty items. And those aren't just the new players only either, I'm sure :rolleyes:

I don't really understand the fact that some people feel it's an obligation for others who are more experienced at the game to teach these "newbies." It's a nice thing, it makes the community all happy and bubbly, but imo it's just a game; it's my time, I will use it how I like it. Sure I do whine sometimes about idiots but honestly I don't even care enough to do anything about it, 'cause it's just a game. I have plenty of other things to do than that.

Also, why I think it's not the end of the world is: I have friends on here who are completely capable of playing multiple classes, I have seen enough KQ's succeed, and seen many good, new players who are willing to make this game good, without advice from seasoned players. I have reported and warned illegal activities here and there, tried doing good things, most of which made absolutely no difference. Just like Mindspank stated, it doesn't matter if you teach something to an idiot; they're too stupid to learn anyways, why bother wasting time? If someone was capable of learning then they should be able to figure out how to play this game. I mean look, all the info is pretty much there D: I'm pretty stupid myself and I figured out how to keep my party alive, so....


TL;DR: I don't think it matters...........................

/yak yak yak