Advice on a 55 PvP Cleric xD

[ToHoly]

Ok so this isn't exactly for moi xD. My friend recently had a change of heart concerning his Cleric. So he wants to go full str (for dmg). So I'm wondering what skills he should empower and also other tips are nice too xD.

[fenris_bane]

A PVP cleric ... lol ... there is no such thing ... lol.

My advice ... make a fighter or mage.

[marz101]

As fen -points up- said there's no such thing as a pvp Cleric really.

Cleric is a Support class, made to help others out but also be strong enough to be on their own.
Clerics cant be much for pvp cuz no matter how much STR you do, other classes would probably have more DMG then you + their defence and/or Eva.

anndd ~ Example:

Fighters have deva/stun and Debuffs for PVP


Mages have Fear and Debuffs for PVP

Archers can Kite their target without being hit themselves (as long as the target is a close range attacker) and use DPS (Poisons) (+ usually hav high eva)

as for Clerics... really only can go invincible for 10 seconds o.o but that can go easily if the cast is broken by a stronger hit and healing skills wont work if Stunned or feared. The stones are only way of healing urself and lets face it, they dont hav the fastest cooldown time eh xD

Sure there are some clerics that are good in pvp, but those are usually charmed and/or Extendered. Or by some lucky stroke of luck managed to sneek by killing easy targets o.o depending what u put stats on will make u last less/more in pvp ~

Sooo tell ur friend if he/she wants a pvp character, make a fighter or a mage (:

[pureownage105]

*Gives up hopes and dreams as of now* =(

[Zjeff.Jz]

max cd and power on bash, max cd on bleed and max cd and power on heal :0

forgot, max cd on quicken

[rio_zyng]

awwww.... dont lose hope :D

Just go for +9 55 blues which have great END and DEX, SPR would also be good,
as for build go for END, use a +9 or +10 weapon and +9 shield. with these trust me they'll leave you alone once they know its pointless unless they have charms, hammer etc.

Full dmg and CD on bash, trip/bleed, heal, rejuvenate and full increase effect time on invincible (it can last for more than 17 sec)

Clerics dont have much damage in pvp, but if its pvp kq your talking about your a god with the invincible hammer :D
so always dig on those chests when they respawn. Pvp can be a horrible place watch out for teamers too

[blackbuterfly]

The eternal myth of clerics and PVP. Define PVP, before you jump to talk about PVP clerics.

All characters can be either PVE or PVP. It's funny how everyone thinks that PVP is ONLY about killing someone. Even clerics themselves. They diminish their own class to a point where 70% of the things we normally do are 'pointless' or 'useless' in half of the game (the pvp half): 'oh all I can do is heal in PVP', 'I can't kill no one because I have only healing aoes', and so on...

I said it once in another thread and I will repeat it: being able to survive IS a form of PVP as well. I am actually more impressed of a cleric who can survive continous devastates from an outrageous damage dealer such as a gladiator than of a character (any class) who just chain a few skills and kill someone (specially when most of the times the conditions are not equal meaning that 'killing' doesn't really imply 'superiority').

Yes, there is clerics who, on top of that (^), CAN ALSO deal damage very effectively. Those are impressive clerics. Not only they perform everything all other clerics do, but also, they can put up a fight to some of the 'PVP' classes. But that doesn't mean that THESE clerics are the only ones who PVP, or are good PVP characters.

to OP: while I don't really support leveling a character until a given level (abyss levels mostly) and leave it there just because most of the abyss population will be outlvled by me, if you wanted to do so with a cleric at around 55-56, I would suggest you to go either for a full STR or STR/DEX build (mostly 30 dex, rest str), get end/spr/dex 55 gears (restore or divine, it won't really matter, I would prefer divine but that0s just me, focus on stats mostly) with CAPPED or near capped END, and very nice dex and spr (this would be the ideal scenario, then you go from there to as close as you can get depending on your money/patience to farm/luck to find the gears), with a blue Glory set (jewels) and a Might set (to switch), both for Bash dmg increasing. Find a mace (CG preferably) and empower cd and power of heal, rejuvenate and bash (I think you won't have enough points for the three of them, if you ask me, I'd set the priority on heal>bash>rejuv, but I think Aeyr's guide can give you a better picture on this). If you practice enough using your cleric, you will realize that +9s don't really make a huge difference on our class, but you can go for the super waster mode and enhance your gears, however the mace, for obvious reasons, should be a must.

I think that would be it. However, if I was you, I'd level a character for real...

[librachan]

^
Me.


Yes I am too nub to remember which acc is logged in the forums -.-

[ToHoly]

The eternal myth of clerics and PVP. Define PVP, before you jump to talk about PVP clerics.

All characters can be either PVE or PVP. It's funny how everyone thinks that PVP is ONLY about killing someone. Even clerics themselves. They diminish their own class to a point where 70% of the things we normally do are 'pointless' or 'useless' in half of the game (the pvp half): 'oh all I can do is heal in PVP', 'I can't kill no one because I have only healing aoes', and so on...

I said it once in another thread and I will repeat it: being able to survive IS a form of PVP as well. I am actually more impressed of a cleric who can survive continous devastates from an outrageous damage dealer such as a gladiator than of a character (any class) who just chain a few skills and kill someone (specially when most of the times the conditions are not equal meaning that 'killing' doesn't really imply 'superiority').

Yes, there is clerics who, on top of that (^), CAN ALSO deal damage very effectively. Those are impressive clerics. Not only they perform everything all other clerics do, but also, they can put up a fight to some of the 'PVP' classes. But that doesn't mean that THESE clerics are the only ones who PVP, or are good PVP characters.

to OP: while I don't really support leveling a character until a given level (abyss levels mostly) and leave it there just because most of the abyss population will be outlvled by me, if you wanted to do so with a cleric at around 55-56, I would suggest you to go either for a full STR or STR/DEX build (mostly 30 dex, rest str), get end/spr/dex 55 gears (restore or divine, it won't really matter, I would prefer divine but that0s just me, focus on stats mostly) with CAPPED or near capped END, and very nice dex and spr (this would be the ideal scenario, then you go from there to as close as you can get depending on your money/patience to farm/luck to find the gears), with a blue Glory set (jewels) and a Might set (to switch), both for Bash dmg increasing. Find a mace (CG preferably) and empower cd and power of heal, rejuvenate and bash (I think you won't have enough points for the three of them, if you ask me, I'd set the priority on heal>bash>rejuv, but I think Aeyr's guide can give you a better picture on this). If you practice enough using your cleric, you will realize that +9s don't really make a huge difference on our class, but you can go for the super waster mode and enhance your gears, however the mace, for obvious reasons, should be a must.

I think that would be it. However, if I was you, I'd level a character for real...

I'm sorry. I forgot to mention that the only reason my friend Truth is lvling to 55 is for the purpose of also helping me farm. When we duo farm GGK and TK as we are now (lvl 50's), I don't really need his help to much. A couple days ago, we came into possession of a few purple 55's, one of them being a plus 10 hammer.
Why spend so much on an item to have it waste away in storage. Instead of that, I'm staying lvl 50 with my blue axe, and he's going to 55 for his plus 10 purple hammer.

Btw, we are lvling. Still have your awesome 60 cleric shield that you sold us xD.

[Dthugtherealist]

I keep telling you High lvls is where the money is at stop farming those nub bosses lol! Anyways libby pretty much covered it all at that lvl tho as a full str Truth is gonna have to be on the top of his game cuz his HP won't be so godly. He will have to be on point with his set switching and and have to be able to heal at the right times and kill things quick before he gets killed. I think Truth should just stay support and help you in that way there are some godly as hell Clerics tho who will bash you to Death *Has Nightmares about Senza and Shiva* O.e

[fenris_bane]

The eternal myth of clerics and PVP. Define PVP, before you jump to talk about PVP clerics.

All characters can be either PVE or PVP. It's funny how everyone thinks that PVP is ONLY about killing someone. Even clerics themselves. They diminish their own class to a point where 70% of the things we normally do are 'pointless' or 'useless' in half of the game (the pvp half): 'oh all I can do is heal in PVP', 'I can't kill no one because I have only healing aoes', and so on...

I said it once in another thread and I will repeat it: being able to survive IS a form of PVP as well. I am actually more impressed of a cleric who can survive continous devastates from an outrageous damage dealer such as a gladiator than of a character (any class) who just chain a few skills and kill someone (specially when most of the times the conditions are not equal meaning that 'killing' doesn't really imply 'superiority').

Yes, there is clerics who, on top of that (^), CAN ALSO deal damage very effectively. Those are impressive clerics. Not only they perform everything all other clerics do, but also, they can put up a fight to some of the 'PVP' classes. But that doesn't mean that THESE clerics are the only ones who PVP, or are good PVP characters.

to OP: while I don't really support leveling a character until a given level (abyss levels mostly) and leave it there just because most of the abyss population will be outlvled by me, if you wanted to do so with a cleric at around 55-56, I would suggest you to go either for a full STR or STR/DEX build (mostly 30 dex, rest str), get end/spr/dex 55 gears (restore or divine, it won't really matter, I would prefer divine but that0s just me, focus on stats mostly) with CAPPED or near capped END, and very nice dex and spr (this would be the ideal scenario, then you go from there to as close as you can get depending on your money/patience to farm/luck to find the gears), with a blue Glory set (jewels) and a Might set (to switch), both for Bash dmg increasing. Find a mace (CG preferably) and empower cd and power of heal, rejuvenate and bash (I think you won't have enough points for the three of them, if you ask me, I'd set the priority on heal>bash>rejuv, but I think Aeyr's guide can give you a better picture on this). If you practice enough using your cleric, you will realize that +9s don't really make a huge difference on our class, but you can go for the super waster mode and enhance your gears, however the mace, for obvious reasons, should be a must.

I think that would be it. However, if I was you, I'd level a character for real...

Sorry ... but I don't accept your defination of PVP. Killing the oposing player is a key element. Yes survival is necessary, but that is only half of the PVP equasion.

For example. Two clerics and PVP each other for hours .... the only chance they have of killing eachother is for one of them to run out of stones and pots. Because clerics can use both types of stones to restore their health (SP stones and pots allow us to keep healing) this makes most cleric PVP pointless.

Now take two equally matched fighters. Through a combination of luck and skill, they have a reasonable chance of killing each other. This time fighter #1 wins ... Next time fighter #2.

[Dthugtherealist]

Naw cuz in a war or GT I don't want my Clerics trying to kill anybody I want them surviving so I can save em and them healing that contributes to PvP too.

[leobaloy]

Honestly, it'd be better if you got yourself a lv55 mace and +10'd that. Mace > Hammer for pvp/soloing D;

Full str build, high end/dex gear (optional spr or str if possible), glory set (try to get a necklace and end ring, that way you could at least use one of your godly cg rings instead of none. I don't recommend a might set because its unreasonable to switch sets every 4.2 secs for bash
Obviously a few crit suits, wep skin would be helpful.

As far as empowerments go....that's a tricky one, at lv55 you'll only have 27 skill points, but this is how i'd do it:

Bash 10 points - cd/dmg
Bleed 5 points - cd
Heal 10 points - cd/dmg
Rejuvenate 2 points - either both in cd, both in dmg, one on each, w/e is better

[Panzehao]

I keep telling you High lvls is where the money is at stop farming those nub bosses lol! Anyways libby pretty much covered it all at that lvl tho as a full str Truth is gonna have to be on the top of his game cuz his HP won't be so godly. He will have to be on point with his set switching and and have to be able to heal at the right times and kill things quick before he gets killed. I think Truth should just stay support and help you in that way there are some godly as hell Clerics tho who will bash you to Death *Has Nightmares about Senza and Shiva* O.e

Not true at least on Teva coz lvl 55 and 35 gears are SO FREAKEN OVER PRICED that like a high 2x end/dex 55 fighter gear cost like the almost the same as a low 4x end/dex 95 gear..... its so stuipd, and people are constantly trying sell mighty set gear for like 5g+ a piece even if the stat sucks and people still buy them.... Costed my friend 2gem to get his +9 55 gear and 56 hat and a 50 blue shield but stillXD wthXD 2gem i can get pretty semi godly 95 set....

[Dthugtherealist]

Well its like this if your a fighter you can start killing wind nephilims from 95 if you start killing em from 95 you get 108 weps 100 green hats and loads of dust just offa that your making mad money. Bijou for Mighty sets is pretty much the same shiz but 55 gears being the same as 95's naw man I sold a shirt +9'ed for 2.5gem that buys out that whole 2gem set your friend bought + 50g extra.

[Infestation]

Hang on let me see if I can find my uber long post about this. Btw you are better stopping at 49 if you want a solo str built pvp cleric. The sets at 55 are just too overpowering for the true pvp classes.

But here you go.

Gear

Find a max end/dex helm and a max end/spr or as close to it as possible. +9 the end/dex one, the end/spr can be 0, it's for mages.

Find as close to 20 end/dex/spr and 19 end/dex/spr Might Armor/Pants as possible. +9

Find prenerf Safety boots with as high of end/dex or end/spr as possible. +9

Get a Glory Necklace and Gold Ring (end one) and a high end/dex/spr GGK ring.

Weapon(s)-
You'll want a +9 mace, if you can afford to get a +9 hammer as well weapon switching is a great way to boost damage.

Skill empowerments -
5 Points Cooldown and Power of Bash (this takes you through level 21)
Use the next 4 points for the power of heal
Save 31-39 to use on the cooldown of Bleed when you hit 40.
then use 41 to finish the heal power.
You will be left with 4 points to use as you see fit.
Here is a decent option, 1 point into heal cd, 1 point into rejuv power and cd, 1 point into invincible duration.

This gives you the fun of PvP as well at a capped level for it and you can get free war rants for farming GGK

OR you can team pvp and just use an even end/dex build and gearing is more or less the same.

[k9-bossdog]

Ok so this isn't exactly for moi xD. My friend recently had a change of heart concerning

his Cleric. So he wants to go full str (for dmg). So I'm wondering what skills he should empower and also other tips

are nice too xD. Rawrrr mah names cookiedmonster i'll be changin mah name though let me join ur

guild im a godly lvl 63 goin to 66 and i plan on pwning 50 abyss im just a tad under crummonster im commin back

and gettn better and im making a lvl 50 fot farming :D can i join if i cant i'll and whipe u all out Q.Q and then 70%

cokkie and do it again Q.Q !!!!!:eek:

[ontslaan]

Clerics DO have the possibility to PvP, just not as effectively as other classes geared for Killing in PvE and PvP. A mace is needed for a cleric to pvp for the DPS, maxed empowerments on Bash/Bleed CD/Power are also a must.

As far as Spark cash use goes, Charms and Crit suits are probably needed to be be on Par with other class opponents.

Just my 2-cents:
Make a fighter or mage for Pvping. Since you want to cap around 55-56, I'd go with a fighter, honestly.
Clerics in this version of Fiesta aren't geared towards Pvp, or killing anything in pve either. The attack skills the other versions have aren't included. Leaving the clerics with Support Skills instead.

It's my firm Belief that Clerics (in this version ONLY) are Support-only. I'm sure PvP clerics do exist, but I don't find it practical.

[librachan]

I'm sorry. I forgot to mention that the only reason my friend Truth is lvling to 55 is for the purpose of also helping me farm. When we duo farm GGK and TK as we are now (lvl 50's), I don't really need his help to much. A couple days ago, we came into possession of a few purple 55's, one of them being a plus 10 hammer.
Why spend so much on an item to have it waste away in storage. Instead of that, I'm staying lvl 50 with my blue axe, and he's going to 55 for his plus 10 purple hammer.

Cool then!


Btw, we are lvling. Still have your awesome 60 cleric shield that you sold us xD.

Awwww take good care of my baby!


Sorry ... but I don't accept your defination of PVP. Killing the oposing player is a key element. Yes survival is necessary, but that is only half of the PVP equasion.

For example. Two clerics and PVP each other for hours .... the only chance they have of killing eachother is for one of them to run out of stones and pots. Because clerics can use both types of stones to restore their health (SP stones and pots allow us to keep healing) this makes most cleric PVP pointless.

Killing the opposing player is only key if otherwise, the person kills you. If that's not the case, killing the person in front of you is just a matter of satisfaction over a particular role in gameplay, and in those cases, I would say that's more of a fighter or a mage profile, than a cleric.

So if a match between two clerics is eternal, it does not mean that those two clerics are unable to participate in PVP, or that PVP is only about killing someone.


Now take two equally matched fighters. Through a combination of luck and skill, they have a reasonable chance of killing each other. This time fighter #1 wins ... Next time fighter #2.

My experience in the fighter field is limited, but for what I have heard, in EQUAL (or close to equal) conditions, the one who stuns is the one who wins, which means that it is not a reasonable chance of killing, but a matter of luck. However, if you consider that the ability of stunning someone can be improved, then it is not luck, and it is skill what results in a winning match.
Clerics are not much different, for that matter. The ability to survive longer against a DD can also be improved, and that is skill as well. Of course, they are different skills because we are speaking of different classes, and that's natural.


Naw cuz in a war or GT I don't want my Clerics trying to kill anybody I want them surviving so I can save em and them healing that contributes to PvP too.

I think wars are the best example of how key it is to be a good 'pvp' cleric. Even if a cleric decided not to heal anyone at all, and just join a party to increase def and dmg of the party, the longer the cleric stays alive, the more chances that party has to kill anyone at all due to the incremental damage and defense. Even in FBZ, if a non charmed gladiator for example is trying to fight a charmed one, adding a HK for the party buffs makes the fight not so unbalanced. So PVPing in the cleric side is definitely not only about killing someone.
Now if a cleric finds 'boring' to just stay back and heal, that is a matter of profile, not a matter of the class being 'useless' in pvp. Profile, I think, is the key word when it comes to evaluating a cleric's performance in the field (actually, when it comes to evaluating ANY class in the field).

[Dthugtherealist]

Yea I was adding on to what you said don't beat me down with your mace Q.Q To me PvP as a cleric is 2 sided I think its just as impressive for a Cleric to kill someone as them surviving a Multidude of stuns and Magic attacks from multiple oponents over a 5-10 min span.

[fenris_bane]

1) Killing the opposing player is only key if otherwise, the person kills you. If that's not the case, killing the person in front of you is just a matter of satisfaction over a particular role in gameplay, and in those cases, I would say that's more of a fighter or a mage profile, than a cleric.

So if a match between two clerics is eternal, it does not mean that those two clerics are unable to participate in PVP, or that PVP is only about killing someone.

2) My experience in the fighter field is limited, but for what I have heard, in EQUAL (or close to equal) conditions, the one who stuns is the one who wins, which means that it is not a reasonable chance of killing, but a matter of luck. However, if you consider that the ability of stunning someone can be improved, then it is not luck, and it is skill what results in a winning match.
Clerics are not much different, for that matter. The ability to survive longer against a DD can also be improved, and that is skill as well. Of course, they are different skills because we are speaking of different classes, and that's natural.

3) I think wars are the best example of how key it is to be a good 'pvp' cleric. Even if a cleric decided not to heal anyone at all, and just join a party to increase def and dmg of the party, the longer the cleric stays alive, the more chances that party has to kill anyone at all due to the incremental damage and defense. Even in FBZ, if a non charmed gladiator for example is trying to fight a charmed one, adding a HK for the party buffs makes the fight not so unbalanced. So PVPing in the cleric side is definitely not only about killing someone. Now if a cleric finds 'boring' to just stay back and heal, that is a matter of profile, not a matter of the class being 'useless' in pvp. Profile, I think, is the key word when it comes to evaluating a cleric's performance in the field (actually, when it comes to evaluating ANY class in the field).

1) Sorry, still disagree. PVP=Player Vs Player. So, in what manner are you "versus" another player? Why it is"hand to hand combat". So, what is the end purpose of this "hand to hand combat"? Too leave them with 1 HP? No. To kill them.

It is nothing more, not about how many monsters you can kill, not about who does the most damage, not about who has the highest defence, not about who heals the best ... but who is the best killer.

2) Stuns does not automatically equal victory. You can still stone or pot while stunned. While there is a certain measure of luck involved, (crits, blocks, misses, debuffs, etc.) The randomness of luck makes it interesting because even an out matched person can win if they they get a little bit lucky.

3) That is funny ... because I find any number of members of your guild and other PVP guilds don't seem to share that view. They are so into "the kill" and the number of "Kill Points" they have. They also sometimes spam kill players many levels below them for sport ... or simply because they are "bored". I also seldom see them fighting players their own level maybe because they are friends or because that person isn't so easy to kill. Also, these people that are easily killed are refered to as "Failed" despite an often great difference in level, armor, class and learnable stills.

Guild Wars are not PVP ... they are Guild vs Guild. Partying together is necessary for success. If you do that in a FBZ or a PVP KQ ... you are a "teamer" for not fighting 1 on 1. So it is not Player Vs Team or Player Vs Guild.

Ask anyone is PVP ... 1 on 1 ... what do you think they would say?

[ToHoly]

Rawrrr mah names cookiedmonster i'll be changin mah name though let me join ur

guild im a godly lvl 63 goin to 66 and i plan on pwning 50 abyss im just a tad under crummonster im commin back

and gettn better and im making a lvl 50 fot farming :D can i join if i cant i'll and whipe u all out Q.Q and then 70%

cokkie and do it again Q.Q !!!!!:eek:
Whisper, Deztin, Hollow, Truth_, or Dino


Well its like this if your a fighter you can start killing wind nephilims from 95 if you start killing em from 95 you get 108 weps 100 green hats and loads of dust just offa that your making mad money. Bijou for Mighty sets is pretty much the same shiz but 55 gears being the same as 95's naw man I sold a shirt +9'ed for 2.5gem that buys out that whole 2gem set your friend bought + 50g extra.

It might even cost more on Bijou. Some ppl are willing to pay up to 1.8 gems for an extremely godly Dim set. Someone assured me, that If I came into possession of a blue 50 fighter shield with decent end/dex, I wouldn't have to farm again until lvl 100.

Prices are going up on all low lvl gears. While prices are dropping on higher lvl'd items. I don't know what that means, but its happening.

[Dthugtherealist]

1) Sorry, still disagree. PVP=Player Vs Player. So, in what manner are you "versus" another player? Why it is"hand to hand combat". So, what is the end purpose of this "hand to hand combat"? Too leave them with 1 HP? No. To kill them.

It is nothing more, not about how many monsters you can kill, not about who does the most damage, not about who has the highest defence, not about who heals the best ... but who is the best killer.

2) Stuns does not automatically equal victory. You can still stone or pot while stunned. While there is a certain measure of luck involved, (crits, blocks, misses, debuffs, etc.) The randomness of luck makes it interesting because even an out matched person can win if they they get a little bit lucky.

3) That is funny ... because I find any number of members of your guild and other PVP guilds don't seem to share that view. They are so into "the kill" and the number of "Kill Points" they have. They also sometimes spam kill players many levels below them for sport ... or simply because they are "bored". I also seldom see them fighting players their own level maybe because they are friends or because that person isn't so easy to kill. Also, these people that are easily killed are refered to as "Failed" despite an often great difference in level, armor, class and learnable stills.

Guild Wars are not PVP ... they are Guild vs Guild. Partying together is necessary for success. If you do that in a FBZ or a PVP KQ ... you are a "teamer" for not fighting 1 on 1. So it is not Player Vs Team or Player Vs Guild.

Ask anyone is PVP ... 1 on 1 ... what do you think they would say?

Aight I wanna ask why the attack on the guild Tag she's wearing? Also I'm cool with alotta people in that guild I've been asked to join that guild I'll 1 v 1 Any Glad there and they won't call me fail also what KP's lol? All a 10x can get KP's from is PvP kq I see hope in there from time to time but he does 1 v 1 and he doesn't kill you he leaves you with 1 hp I never see Methal in PvP kq I see Driz and he just chills.




Whisper, Deztin, Hollow, Truth_, or Dino



It might even cost more on Bijou. Some ppl are willing to pay up to 1.8 gems for an extremely godly Dim set. Someone assured me, that If I came into possession of a blue 50 fighter shield with decent end/dex, I wouldn't have to farm again until lvl 100.

Prices are going up on all low lvl gears. While prices are dropping on higher lvl'd items. I don't know what that means, but its happening.

95 gears are dropping 100 green helms are dropping HG's are about the same and thats pretty much it.

[fenris_bane]

Aight I wanna ask why the attack on the guild Tag she's wearing?

It is not an attack. It is a just statement of what I have personally experienced. I have never been treated like that by her and have never see or other members of her guild act that way.

HOWEVER: there are a siginificant number that do. There are any number of times when in the PVP KQ's, roaming the abyses (which I almost never visit now), or in a FBZ where people from certain guilds (I'm sure we can all name them) act exactly in the way I described. It is a fact ... not an attack.

For Example .... being double teamed by a pair of Starred 100+ is a little rediculous ... It makes me laugh. I mean really ... come on ... you get attacked and killed while in a fight with someone else. Then when you go back fight the person that killed you (and by all means will eventually kill you due to the disparity in levels) the person you are fighting Starred level 100+ buddy joins in the fight and double (or more) teams you.

Come on ... you're both more than 10 levels above me ... fight me 1 on 1 ... lol. I don't really expect to win ... but can't you fight your own fight. LOL ... and when I stop attacking, don't bother healing, stand there, go in my mushroom or are even when I am simply just visible ... is it really necessary for you to kill me again. LOL ... big deal.

You killed a cleric ... I don't have much of a chance of killing to you begin with. Also, unless I'm 20+ levels above you ... or you just stand there ... it isn't very likely I can kill you. Unless I can 1 or 2 hit kill you .... you can run from me indefinately.

To which is the whole point ... PVP is 1 vs 1 .... and if you want a PVP cleric ... you will lose because clerics have the worse PVP skills in the game.

I fail as a PVP cleric because clerics fail at PVP ... lol ... but that doesn't make me a failed cleric.

[Dthugtherealist]

I fail as a PVP cleric because clerics fail at PVP ... lol ... but that doesn't make me a failed cleric.

Read below all those quotes and tell me a Cleric can't PvP lol. Clerics are essential to everything You can have a guild full of godly glads and Mages and the guild with 20 Clerics + the glads and mages will win. Why I say that? Cuz the Clerics will keep the Glads and Mages on there side alive while the other people only gotta wrry about kill or be killed and most of the time they will be killed. Also if a Cleric bashes it catches people off guard if its hurts it catches people more off guard so now you got a support person and a killer with you it doesn't get any sweeter than that.


It's funny how everyone thinks that PVP is ONLY about killing someone.


So PVPing in the cleric side is definitely not only about killing someone.



*Has Nightmares about Senza and Shiva* O.e

About your teaming thing just drop that I've even been teamed at 1st I used to complain then I looked at it as respect. If they think your worthy enough for 2 10x's to come spam you over and over you must be good.

Edit: About the fighters thing Glads got CC and Dash and Knights got Neglect so at prestige lvls its not who 1st stuns wins all the time at lower lvls its way easier to survive a stun and roll from like lvl oponents.

[blackbuterfly]

1) Sorry, still disagree. PVP=Player Vs Player. So, in what manner are you "versus" another player? Why it is"hand to hand combat". So, what is the end purpose of this "hand to hand combat"? Too leave them with 1 HP? No. To kill them.

In what manner are you versus another player? Well, no one wins a fight unless the opponent is dead. If the opponent is unkillable, the opponent wins. The ability to counter attack is a completely separate thing.
Why is it hand to hand combat? It is not. We have weapons, skills, armor, to play a role, which should tell us that there is more than just plain fighting. You don't really punch people to death do you?
You said it. If you opponent's purpose is to kill you, and he fails at that, who wins?


It is nothing more, not about how many monsters you can kill, not about who does the most damage, not about who has the highest defence, not about who heals the best ... but who is the best killer.

And who is the best killer?


2) Stuns does not automatically equal victory.

I never said it did. Actually, if you look closer, I added that being able to stun or not to stun is a variable that can be modified through the balance between aim/eva.


You can still stone or pot while stunned. While there is a certain measure of luck involved, (crits, blocks, misses, debuffs, etc.) The randomness of luck makes it interesting because even an out matched person can win if they they get a little bit lucky.

It is not luck. That's what makes a full defensive cleric a PVPer as well (even it's not a bashing cleric). You didn't stun me, I spam heal, you can't kill me, you give up, I win. It's not rocket science.


3) That is funny ... because I find any number of members of your guild and other PVP guilds don't seem to share that view. They are so into "the kill" and the number of "Kill Points" they have.

There is only one guild member that actually performs as a pker and, could, in a way (i would have to ask him), care about Killing points.
Now regarding being into the kill, well, if they go into FBZ, they go in there to kill and be killed. What do you go to FBZ for?

I'm starting to get a bit lost here. I thought this was about PVPing, not about being killed in FBZ. FBZ is just one of many forms of PVPing in Fiesta, and unlike wars, for example, YOU CHOOSE to be there.


They also sometimes spam kill players many levels below them for sport ... or simply because they are "bored".

Of course. They are warlocks and gladiators, sometimes wizards. They chose DDs. They deal damage. They enjoy dealing damage on others. Unlike you and me, they are not clerics.
Whatever they do in FBZ tho, is their own will. I'm not their mother. However, anyone they killed has agreed to be in a pvp area, so should be there at its own risk. Am I wrong?



I also seldom see them fighting players their own level maybe because they are friends or because that person isn't so easy to kill. Also, these people that are easily killed are refered to as "Failed" despite an often great difference in level, armor, class and learnable stills.

Level, armor, class and skills are variables. You play with them. Being same level and class, two characters are not equal. That's what makes this game interesting.
While I don't support anyone, even my own guildmates, calling someone fail in the public chat, I trully believe you learn more from losing than from winning. Those who consider themselves fails can always improve, those who consider themselves 'given up' or 'this is a problem of my class that I can't work out' will stay like that, forever.



Guild Wars are not PVP ... they are Guild vs Guild.

Two guilds fighting are pvp. I think that's pretty straight forward.


Partying together is necessary for success.

Not really. It is though, probably the most effective strategy. The fact that some strategies are popular or well known or given as 'obvious' doesn't mean that they represent the only way to success. I have seen people solo guilds, so no, partying is not a must.


If you do that in a FBZ or a PVP KQ ... you are a "teamer" for not fighting 1 on 1. So it is not Player Vs Team or Player Vs Guild.

The concept of 'teaming' in a game of roles named 'fiesta' which in another language means 'party' is one of the concepts that I enjoy questioning the most, for obvious reasons.


Ask anyone is PVP ... 1 on 1 ... what do you think they would say?

When you are fighting someone you can either set special rules or just let it go the way it goes. The fact that you like to 1-1 doesn't mean it is the only way to pvp.

For example, let's say you go 1-1 someone and you and your opponent agree to not use pots (a very common scenario). That is an agreement that you two came into. It doesn't mean that everyone who uses pots (probably the easiest resource to obtain in game) is a fail.


It is not an attack. It is a just statement of what I have personally experienced. I have never been treated like that by her and have never see or other members of her guild act that way.

I would swear you just said... Lemme see... *scrolls up*

3) That is funny ... because I find any number of members of your guild and other PVP guilds don't seem to share that view. They are so into "the kill" and the number of "Kill Points" they have.

I'm confused. First post we were coldhearted 'into the kill' people then we are people who never did that to you?



HOWEVER: there are a siginificant number that do. There are any number of times when in the PVP KQ's, roaming the abyses (which I almost never visit now), or in a FBZ where people from certain guilds (I'm sure we can all name them) act exactly in the way I described. It is a fact ... not an attack.

I'm no one's spokesperson. Talk to those guilds. Don't take this wrong, but I don't really care how others act. I can tell you how I act.


For Example .... being double teamed by a pair of Starred 100+ is a little rediculous ... It makes me laugh. I mean really ... come on ... you get attacked and killed while in a fight with someone else. Then when you go back fight the person that killed you (and by all means will eventually kill you due to the disparity in levels) the person you are fighting Starred level 100+ buddy joins in the fight and double (or more) teams you.

The way I see it: two people killed my pixels. What did I lost? Nothing. What did they gain? Nothing.

So, what are we complaining about? Not like if I get 'teamed' they are proving anything at all, so...


Come on ... you're both more than 10 levels above me ... fight me 1 on 1 ... lol. I don't really expect to win ... but can't you fight your own fight. LOL ... and when I stop attacking, don't bother healing, stand there, go in my mushroom or are even when I am simply just visible ... is it really necessary for you to kill me again. LOL ... big deal.

What for? What is it that you need to prove? What is it that it is being hurt so bad?
Aren't you sure of your abilities as a cleric? Then why do you think that they are 'injuring' you at all?


You killed a cleric ... I don't have much of a chance of killing to you begin with. Also, unless I'm 20+ levels above you ... or you just stand there ... it isn't very likely I can kill you. Unless I can 1 or 2 hit kill you .... you can run from me indefinately.

Ok. If that's your case...


To which is the whole point ... PVP is 1 vs 1 .... and if you want a PVP cleric ... you will lose because clerics have the worse PVP skills in the game.

If you are so convinced. I would suggest you to speak to other bashing clerics as well, but, you are already convinced, so...



I fail as a PVP cleric because clerics fail at PVP ... lol ... but that doesn't make me a failed cleric.

As you wish. However,
* there are other clerics who have accomplished what you claim impossible to do.
* there are other clerics (probably those who are recognized by other classes as the best clerics in server) who are incredible PVP performers and I have barely seen them bash anyone in FBZ
* it is not about what each one of those cleric think, but what each one of those who have fought against or next to those clerics think. Recognition is not 'self supplied'.

If you are or are not a 'fail' cleric, that is not of my business.

[librachan]

bleh.

mental note: don't log with alt anymore in the forums.

[ToHoly]

Honestly, it'd be better if you got yourself a lv55 mace and +10'd that. Mace > Hammer for pvp/soloing D;

I think we're gonna take your advice on getting a 55 mace plus 10. *Waits on Holly* :eek:

[Dthugtherealist]

lmfao Libby that post was proness I remember you as that lil lvl 20 Cleric we did KM together you blossomed alot ^^

[fenris_bane]

1) Read below all those quotes and tell me a Cleric can PvP lol.

2) About your teaming thing just drop that I've even been teamed at 1st I used to complain then I looked at it as respect. If they think your worthy enough for 2 10x's to come spam you over and over you must be good.

1) Re-read my quote. I stand by it.

2) Are you trying to make me laugh? ... worthy ... ha ... more like swatting a fly. And there is absolute NO RESPECT being shown. You are just a target.

[fenris_bane]

* there are other clerics who have accomplished what you claim impossible to do.
* there are other clerics (probably those who are recognized by other classes as the best clerics in server) who are incredible PVP performers and I have barely seen them bash anyone in FBZ
* it is not about what each one of those cleric think, but what each one of those who have fought against or next to those clerics think. Recognition is not 'self supplied'.

Lol ... what a joke. You act there is nothing wrong with the PVP balance in Fiesta which well all know is not the case. Attempting to twist the defination of PVP to mean "You didn't kill me, so I win." is a very, very weak arguement. You don't win the PVP KQ but having the fewest deaths, but the most kills of the highest ranked players with the fewest deaths. That is PVP. In other words ... PVP = Victims + PK'ers + PKK'ers

The only PVP cleric I ever saw was one who was level 85+ in the level 70 abbyss. He delighted in killing all of us in our low level 60's and were trying to grind in order to level. He killed us over and over until we finally gave up and left.

That seems to be a true PVP cleric. Some bully beating up on people that don't stand a chance of fighting back because of their level. I don't know how many times I've heard "You've got failed damage." from other PVP'ers near my level who couldn't kill me despite me have much lower HP than other clerics.

We are generally not respect by the other PVP'ers our level because we are no threat to them. And our ability to heal just seems to make them more determined to kill us by any means possible including teaming and getting their high level friends to dispatch us.

One last thing ... remember this thread is in reference to a level 55 PVP cleric ... not Guardians, Holy Kights or Palidins. Also, I doubt that the origional poster was interested in becoming a "heal bot" PVP'er. Once you've hit lvl 100, you are no longer subject to attack by starred players who generally have no problem kill those 10+ levels below them even with low level weapons or simply punching.

[librachan]

Lol ... what a joke. You act there is nothing wrong with the PVP balance in Fiesta which well all know is not the case.

But I trully don't think there is anything wrong with PVPing with clerics...


Attempting to twist the defination of PVP to mean "You didn't kill me, so I win." is a very, very weak arguement. You don't win the PVP KQ but having the fewest deaths, but the most kills of the highest ranked players with the fewest deaths. That is PVP. In other words ... PVP = Victims + PK'ers + PKK'ers

Why is it weak? Because of PVP KQ? So you are evaluating a class over a system point given for a particular instance that, on top of that, brings outstanding variables to the equation? (PVP KQ Hammer, for example).

And by the way, the PVP KQ rank is not stablished over highest kills fewest deaths, it's stablished over points. You can actually have more points than the person next to you without having to kill anyone at all.

Victims? PKers? PKKers? Sorry, I have left abyss levels long time ago... They are so insignificant to me (and this is not lack of modesty but a holistic point of view), that I see them like far far far away. Maybe this discussion we are having is a matter of different perpectives...


The only PVP cleric I ever saw was one who was level 85+ in the level 70 abbyss. He delighted in killing all of us in our low level 60's and were trying to grind in order to level. He killed us over and over until we finally gave up and left.

Nice role model. 15 more levels and that's a pvper?
I was speaking of HolyKnights killing Gladiators or Wizards in almost equal conditions. Not of some 'I'mma do to these noobs what some other guy did to me' frustrated one.


That seems to be a true PVP cleric. Some bully beating up on people that don't stand a chance of fighting back because of their level.

I hope that you are being sarcastic.


I don't know how many times I've heard "You've got failed damage." from other PVP'ers near my level who couldn't kill me despite me have much lower HP than other clerics.

I think every cleric has heard that.
But I have also heard people saying:
'24/7 cookied'
'You hurt'
'Pro soloer'
'Capped Gladiator' (<3)
and so many more...


We are generally not respect by the other PVP'ers our level because we are no threat to them.

I don't care. Nor the clerics I can think of care. Do you?


And our ability to heal just seems to make them more determined to kill us by any means possible including teaming and getting their high level friends to dispatch us.

o.O?
I'm lost on this one.


One last thing ... remember this thread is in reference to a level 55 PVP cleric ... not Guardians, Holy Kights or Palidins. Also, I doubt that the origional poster was interested in becoming a "heal bot" PVP'er. Once you've hit lvl 100, you are no longer subject to attack by starred players who generally have no problem kill those 10+ levels below them even with low level weapons or simply punching.

Yes this thread was about a 55 pvper. But in this thread you also commented, and a bit putting the OP down, that there is no such a thing as a PVP cleric. There is. Every cleric who actively participates in PVP instances is a PVP cleric. How they participate, is in a way, what will in a future determine if they lean more towards the supportive PVP or the bashing kind.
I don't know what the poster wants to be and I don't think anyone has discussed that. I fail to see in his post 'help me decide what I wanna become'.
And when you are 100, you will continue being attacked. Sometimes, even more.

[istorage]

wut is this i dont even

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player


Player versus player, or PvP, is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between two or more live participants.

more live participants.

more

what's the difference between combat and pvp? sigh. i'm a little slowwww so arguing semantics confoozle me X(

i like how senza never posts things but still links them in skype :|

i wish there was an option for giant, flashing, seizure-inducing ~*glitter*~ text

~*EDIT*~

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/5549/glitterfy0204233t641d31.gif

close enough :3c

[Dthugtherealist]

1) Re-read my quote. I stand by it.

2) Are you trying to make me laugh? ... worthy ... ha ... more like swatting a fly. And there is absolute NO RESPECT being shown. You are just a target.

I read I understand it I consider it to be false cuz Libby has said over and over there is more ways to PvP than just killing people. Knights and Clerics attract people they stay there and don't die the DD's kill the other people like flies and the Knights and Clerics don't die. PvP kq and Abysses are such a limited part of PvP its not even funny so what if I can individually mass murder everybody can I help in a guild war or GT with that style? nope.


And when you are 100, you will continue being attacked. Sometimes, even more.

Not that the rest of your post wasn't epic win but this is true too when your 10x everybody and there grandma is trying to kill you I even have 8x mage stalkers trying to kill me lmfao its pitifull.

[Sharlyne]

wut is this i dont even

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player





what's the difference between combat and pvp? sigh. i'm a little slowwww so semantics confuzzle me X(

i like how senza never posts things but still links them in skype :|

i wish there was an option for giant, flashing, seizure-inducing ~*glitter*~ text

~*EDIT*~

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/5549/glitterfy0204233t641d31.gif

close enough :3c

so cute :3c Ryel, I don't know if this is on topic im to lazy to read w t f is this about... but as a cleric i rather survive in a pvp than kill u_u .

senza is the best gladiator :3c
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l320/akatsukishar/1286428549241.jpg

[sething]

but as a cleric i rather survive in a pvp than kill u_u

my impression of akarii surviving:

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/5088/lolataka.jpg

and to further heighten the effect:

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/5549/glitterfy0204233t641d31.gif

that is all. happy gaming

[Sharlyne]

my impression of akarii surviving:

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/5088/lolataka.jpg

and to further heighten the effect:

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/5549/glitterfy0204233t641d31.gif

that is all. happy gaming

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l320/akatsukishar/gargoyl1.jpg

ps: this is a dramatization HAVE FUN DYING LITTER SETH.


ps : ignore the guild chat im DUMB OK (emo)

http://img-s3-01.mytextgraphics.com/sparklee/2010/11/25/54cd62b1eac057abe93d9466a4502628.gif (http://www.sparklee.com)

[sething]

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l320/akatsukishar/gargoyl1.jpg

ps: this is a dramatization HAVE FUN DYING LITTER SETH.


ps : ignore the guild chat im DUMB OK (emo)

http://img-s3-01.mytextgraphics.com/sparklee/2010/11/25/54cd62b1eac057abe93d9466a4502628.gif (http://www.sparklee.com)

*** thats not even me......and how am i dying !? LOL?!!
hey aka:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9809/failcl.jpg

[Sharlyne]

*** thats not even me......and how am i dying !? LOL?!!
hey aka:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9809/failcl.jpg

I have no pics of you ok just use your imagination (emo) also :3c
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l320/akatsukishar/eisedead.jpg

http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae234/mustpb/Skype emoticons/emoticon-0128-hi.gif

[istorage]

Lol ... what a joke. You act there is nothing wrong with the PVP balance in Fiesta which well all know is not the case. Attempting to twist the defination of PVP to mean "You didn't kill me, so I win." is a very, very weak arguement. You don't win the PVP KQ but having the fewest deaths, but the most kills of the highest ranked players with the fewest deaths. That is PVP. In other words ... PVP = Victims + PK'ers + PKK'ers


http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7523/11282269.jpg

my full-end-no-offensive-empowerments-waifu and full-end-no-offensive-empowerments-self back at 89 cap coming in 1st and 2nd. only other guildie in that pic is yoges

to put the wins into perspective, she leveled from 89-91 using exp cards from kq when the cap opened. i would post 105 kq wins but after the first couple of kq wins it sort of became pointless to take screens X(

for other cases, where we do the more than two people partying thing in say, fbz...have fun trying to win without a good cleric X)

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/8636/79087963.jpg

nowe is better than seth though so this counts somehow X) i swear it does! it was totally a fair fight...totally

(that hk crit buffing herself is wave...back when her hk was full str)

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/8189/lolhmqv.jpg

[senzamisura]

what's the difference between combat and pvp? sigh. i'm a little slowwww so arguing semantics confoozle me X(

i like how senza never posts things but still links them in skype :|

I posted. Happy? and omg I see babe's name in that screenshot D:<<


But in this thread you also commented, and a bit putting the OP down, that there is no such a thing as a PVP cleric. There is. Every cleric who actively participates in PVP instances is a PVP cleric. How they participate, is in a way, what will in a future determine if they lean more towards the supportive PVP or the bashing kind.

I agree with what you said libra <3

PVP clerics are extinct an endangered breed. In order to build one, you'd need heavy heavy end dex str/spr gears+9 and some sort of str build. Excluding the end built support pvp clerics, there are still a handful of str built pvp clerics out there. Built and geared properly, they have more def than glads due to shields, they can deal more dmg than end/dex built knights (and yes they can tank if needed), and they could have extremely high evasion too. The only downside is that they're limited to an average of 2 skills, since the lvl 95 and 100 skills have long CD.

I would think a pure combat cleric would have full dmg and cd in all offensive skills, however half of those empowerments are kind of useless-on a side note, I heard that Pretesse_Shiva had the most offensive skills empowered though.

One can argue that a pvp cleric is kind of pointless, but I personally build all my clerics as some sort of str build, because I can heal well enough without the need for end and I can kill things fast enough-but that's my preference.

back to topic...

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn317/tranquillezza/5x.jpg

Distribute the skill points in heal/rejuvenate any way you like. I'd recommend using a glory set+might set+hammer only for dealing high dmg in short amount of time. If you pvp vs 5x fighters, use a 55+9 set with heavy end dex instead and a mace, since using the 35s will make you lose out on eva and def :|

My gears, as you can tell from my def are +0, I only have +9 shield and cg mace+9 I have a 55 mace, but its +0 :| I'm still looking to replace my boots and jewelry, so I'll have better stats. My kill points are low on this character because I rarely go to abyss and pvp people on it, and I certainly don't pk chars that are 10 levels lower than me or something.

[ToHoly]

I posted. Happy? and omg I see babe's name in that screenshot D:<<



I agree with what you said libra <3

PVP clerics are extinct an endangered breed. In order to build one, you'd need heavy heavy end dex str/spr gears+9 and some sort of str build. Excluding the end built support pvp clerics, there are still a handful of str built pvp clerics out there. Built and geared properly, they have more def than glads due to shields, they can deal more dmg than end/dex built knights (and yes they can tank if needed), and they could have extremely high evasion too. The only downside is that they're limited to an average of 2 skills, since the lvl 95 and 100 skills have long CD.

I would think a pure combat cleric would have full dmg and cd in all offensive skills, however half of those empowerments are kind of useless-on a side note, I heard that Pretesse_Shiva had the most offensive skills empowered though.

One can argue that a pvp cleric is kind of pointless, but I personally build all my clerics as some sort of str build, because I can heal well enough without the need for end and I can kill things fast enough-but that's my preference.

back to topic...

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn317/tranquillezza/5x.jpg

Distribute the skill points in heal/rejuvenate any way you like. I'd recommend using a glory set+might set+hammer only for dealing high dmg in short amount of time. If you pvp vs 5x fighters, use a 55+9 set with heavy end dex instead and a mace, since using the 35s will make you lose out on eva and def :|

My gears, as you can tell from my def are +0, I only have +9 shield and cg mace+9 I have a 55 mace, but its +0 :| I'm still looking to replace my boots and jewelry, so I'll have better stats. My kill points are low on this character because I rarely go to abyss and pvp people on it, and I certainly don't pk chars that are 10 levels lower than me or something.

Thank you very much Senza. That picture explains it all. Truth take notes!! xD

[sething]

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn317/tranquillezza/5x.jpg


truth about her kps:

she pked so much the counter reset!!!!

[fenris_bane]

But I trully don't think there is anything wrong with PVPing with clerics....

I do not share that point of view. But then again, I do not accept your defination of PVPing.


Why is it weak? Because of PVP KQ? So you are evaluating a class over a system point given for a particular instance that, on top of that, brings outstanding variables to the equation? (PVP KQ Hammer, for example).

And by the way, the PVP KQ rank is not stablished over highest kills fewest deaths, it's stablished over points. You can actually have more points than the person next to you without having to kill anyone at all.

Yes. Exactly. I am aware of how the point system works in the PVP KQ. However, the top 3-5 people generally don't attack each other even when they have the hammer. It seems to be the PK'er click attempting to prove how tough they are. I don't know how many times I've gotten hammered and teamed in the PVP KQ only to see the person I'm fighting walk away because the people that killed me don't attack them.


Victims? PKers? PKKers? Sorry, I have left abyss levels long time ago... They are so insignificant to me (and this is not lack of modesty but a holistic point of view), that I see them like far far far away. Maybe this discussion we are having is a matter of different perpectives...

We maybe you should start over with a new cleric. Then maybe you can appreciate my point of view. As you can see from some of the above posts by others, there are people that deliberately prevent themselves from leveling just to prowel the abysses to look for victims. You might even know some of them.


Nice role model. 15 more levels and that's a pvper?
I was speaking of HolyKnights killing Gladiators or Wizards in almost equal conditions. Not of some 'I'mma do to these noobs what some other guy did to me' frustrated one.

Yes. That is one form of a PVP'er .... The player killer. The other from is the PKK'er ... the Player Killer Killer who attacks PK'ers because the present the greatest challange.


I hope that you are being sarcastic.

No. I was being serious. The only PVP clerics I have ever seen fight people that have no chance of winning due to being many levels lower. (remember winning = killing not surviving)


I think every cleric has heard that.
But I have also heard people saying:
'24/7 cookied'
'You hurt'
'Pro soloer'
'Capped Gladiator' (<3)
and so many more...

I've never heard any of that. Never heard any praise ... unless I'm being a heal bot. Also, I get KS'ed or have problems soloing because of Plvl'ing and/or grinding parties trying to take every single last monster on the field.


I don't care. Nor the clerics I can think of care. Do you?

I was just stating my point of view. Your answer seem to support my view that clerics are generally not respected by other PVP'ers. I didn't ask if you cared about this point of view.


o.O?
I'm lost on this one.

Well, maybe you lost because you don't PVP or because your guild tag scares people off that act this way. The old whine ... "Stop spam healing. It is not fair." And it works like this ... a PK'er attacks you; however, because of your ability to heal, they can't kill you. The fight goes on for a while and the PK'er starts running out of stones & pots (or just get frustrated because they didn't get a quick kill) so they call on their friends to do what they can't do solo ... kill you. I have lost count of the number of times I was attacked by someone who could kill me only to have some starred person come over and kill me, or have a team of 3 or 4 mob me and kill me.


Yes this thread was about a 55 pvper. But in this thread you also commented, and a bit putting the OP down, that there is no such a thing as a PVP cleric. There is. Every cleric who actively participates in PVP instances is a PVP cleric. How they participate, is in a way, what will in a future determine if they lean more towards the supportive PVP or the bashing kind.
I don't know what the poster wants to be and I don't think anyone has discussed that. I fail to see in his post 'help me decide what I wanna become'.
And when you are 100, you will continue being attacked. Sometimes, even more.

Gobbletty Gook. I'm not putting anyone down just stating the facts of my PVP experiences. It seems clear you and I will never agree on what I feel is the key element of PVP ... The Kill. Does the ability to kill your opponent make you a winner? In my point of view, YES! In your point of view, simply surviving is all that is necessary. With enough pots and stones any cleric who isn't 2 hit killed is likely successful PVP'er because he can spam heal, pot, and stone and not die.

And yes, when you are lvl 100 I'm sure you will still be attacked ... However, there is no longer anyone who is starred that can one hit kill you without even trying.


I read I understand it I consider it to be false cuz Libby has said over and over there is more ways to PvP than just killing people. Knights and Clerics attract people they stay there and don't die the DD's kill the other people like flies and the Knights and Clerics don't die. PvP kq and Abysses are such a limited part of PvP its not even funny so what if I can individually mass murder everybody can I help in a guild war or GT with that style? nope..

Well, believe what you want. However, the reality all depends on your point of view and your experiences. PVP is all about killing people. Nothing more. Nothing Less. Guild Wars reduce clerics to heal bots and targets. I know. I've been there. That is part of the reason I'm guildless now.


Not that the rest of your post wasn't epic win but this is true too when your 10x everybody and there grandma is trying to kill you I even have 8x mage stalkers trying to kill me lmfao its pitifull.

"trying to kill" ... doesn't sound like they were successful. Only a dumb PVP'er attacks someone 20 lvl's above them. They have no chance of winning unless you let them kill you. And if they can't tell you are lvl 100 by the aura ... to bad for them.

[librachan]

I agree with what you said libra <3

MASTER<3


truth about her kps:

she pked so much the counter reset!!!!

shut up jerk


I do not share that point of view. But then again, I do not accept your defination of PVPing.

Mkay.



Yes. Exactly. I am aware of how the point system works in the PVP KQ. However, the top 3-5 people generally don't attack each other even when they have the hammer. It seems to be the PK'er click attempting to prove how tough they are. I don't know how many times I've gotten hammered and teamed in the PVP KQ only to see the person I'm fighting walk away because the people that killed me don't attack them.

Ok. Still that has nothing to do with clerics and PVP, but with the mechanics of PVP KQ.





We maybe you should start over with a new cleric. Then maybe you can appreciate my point of view. As you can see from some of the above posts by others, there are people that deliberately prevent themselves from leveling just to prowel the abysses to look for victims. You might even know some of them.

I have. A different one, tho. She can barely be killed by cookied people.
Abyss pkers get generally mad.

When I said that sounds farr faar away from me is because the whole thing about pk and dedicating to pk when your main is a low level is far away. Yes I wonder around abyss from time to time (on a cleric LOL), yes I have fought PKers, but on that cleric I don't even aim to kill them. I love to see them raged because they can't kill with their 'supposedly' godly gears and their 'knowledge' and they start going all grumpy and losing it and I find that particularily funny. And then they say something like 'bleh stupid +9s' and I'm like 'I'm not +9' so they start shouting 'cookied fail'... and well... you know the rest of the story. That is funny. Very funny.

Tell me who won and who lost that fight. And I didn't click on my bash skill but once.



Yes. That is one form of a PVP'er .... The player killer. The other from is the PKK'er ... the Player Killer Killer who attacks PK'ers because the present the greatest challange.

Ok, I guess. Although I would never consider a dedicated PKer challenging. How can someone whose highest lvl character ignores half of the game be challenging?
But you could say that's just me...



No. I was being serious. The only PVP clerics I have ever seen fight people that have no chance of winning due to being many levels lower. (remember winning = killing not surviving)

You are missing the best ones, then. I think some of them have posted just above me, or their names have just been mentioned. I highly suggest you to check on them.
And now that luckily Ryel made her post, I can mention her: Senza is to me the one cleric I most admire. Just in case you want a name to start off your research. Not only she can hurt, but also I have seen her perform unextended and unsparcashed better than some sc-relying clerics. I remember one GT I was on viewing mode, put follow on her and watched her the entire match. Teamed, 1-1, whatever you want to come up with, she was impressive. Now if that is not PVP (call it player vs player, player vs playerS, or whatever you want), then heck I don't know what PVP is.



I've never heard any of that. Never heard any praise ... unless I'm being a heal bot. Also, I get KS'ed or have problems soloing because of Plvl'ing and/or grinding parties trying to take every single last monster on the field.

Don take this wrong, but maybe, just maybe, there is something you are doing that you need to review. And I don't mean skill wise only.



I was just stating my point of view. Your answer seem to support my view that clerics are generally not respected by other PVP'ers. I didn't ask if you cared about this point of view.

No I never said that. What I meant is: take it from who it comes from. Random person that you have barely talked to, jumps on you in some FBZ or abyss and kills you, calls you fail or whatever, who cares? The person doesn't know you, you don't know the person, you don't know under which conditions the person is killing you, etc etc etc, then who cares what random person thinks?
If a random person calls me fail, I am never going to care. That has nothing to do with how much respect clerics get. That has to do with how relevant the comment is to me, and also, with how sure I am or I am not of my cleric skills.



Well, maybe you lost because you don't PVP or because your guild tag scares people off that act this way.

I PVP a lot. In a variety of levels and scenarios. I don't PK or PKK (whatever that is), tho. I just fight. I fight because I believe it presents a challenge that mobs just don't have. Because seriously, who has trouble killing a mob in game? (unless it is some hard boss or something, mobs are plain stupid to fight)
I started engaging in pvp instances since my early 80s. I was killed, 'teamed' as you say, 1-1d, everything, many times. Oh yes I died lots. And everytime I find it more amusing. Because it's different every day. I don't believe in those who say that PVP is 'drama only'. That's one state of mind. I have been killed by PKers in abysses on my nubs and I still have some quite interesting conversations with some of them. And I have discovered some of them are not just 'I-jump-a-noob' machines but seriously look for challenges in those levels. I treat with respect everyone who treats me with respect, and If I am attacked, and die, the only thing I care is about how to improve so next time I don't die. Just as an example, the best fight I could have nowadays is against one of my best friends, a Gladiator, who so far is like 293109381 to 3 (score). And everytime I fight him it's better, new things come up, he gets better, I do too, and that's one of the most incredible exercises (learning wise) this game currently has to offer me.
My guild tag, has nothing to do, as this Gladiator and I SHARE THE SAME TAG. He can spam me (the jerk does it all the time -.-) and I don't care about dieing, because everytime I die, I learn a new thing.


The old whine ... "Stop spam healing. It is not fair."

Oh c'mon. Don't tell me you take seriously someone who whines about your spam healing because that's like taking seriously those guys who whine about mages or archers running...


And it works like this ... a PK'er attacks you; however, because of your ability to heal, they can't kill you. The fight goes on for a while and the PK'er starts running out of stones & pots (or just get frustrated because they didn't get a quick kill) so they call on their friends to do what they can't do solo ... kill you. I have lost count of the number of times I was attacked by someone who could kill me only to have some starred person come over and kill me, or have a team of 3 or 4 mob me and kill me.

I said it already. What did they prove? That you can be killed by 3 people at the same time? Cuz other than that I don't see anything else being proven there.
Why is it so bad to die to 3 people? It's not like you did something wrong, skill wise, is it?




Gobbletty Gook. I'm not putting anyone down just stating the facts of my PVP experiences. It seems clear you and I will never agree on what I feel is the key element of PVP ... The Kill. Does the ability to kill your opponent make you a winner? In my point of view, YES! In your point of view, simply surviving is all that is necessary. With enough pots and stones any cleric who isn't 2 hit killed is likely successful PVP'er because he can spam heal, pot, and stone and not die.

Nooooooouuuuu. Not every cleric who can't be 2 hit. Every cleric who can stand a outrageous DD stuning/disabling several times. Do that, and yes, you will be a great pvp cleric.
You will find that's EXTREMELY hard to accomplish...


And yes, when you are lvl 100 I'm sure you will still be attacked ... However, there is no longer anyone who is starred that can one hit kill you without even trying.

You would be surprised how many clerics are pointed out as '1-hit' even when they are already prestiges. And how relatively few are not.

[fenris_bane]

This whole discussion it getting kind of tiring. I'm sure you will like have some response. However, this is my last gasp on the matter. I'm not sure anyone else much cares what we think ....


Ok. Still that has nothing to do with clerics and PVP, but with the mechanics of PVP KQ..

The PVP KQ mechanics do have something to say about PVP in general. Cleric and archers need the invincible hammer to make kills. Or they need to attack someone being attacked by someone else to get a kill. Otherwise, plan to spend most of the KQ lying dead to try to perserve enough points to get some decent exp for a 7-9 place finish.


I have. A different one, tho. She can barely be killed by cookied people.
Abyss pkers get generally mad.

When I said that sounds farr faar away from me is because the whole thing about pk and dedicating to pk when your main is a low level is far away. Yes I wonder around abyss from time to time (on a cleric LOL), yes I have fought PKers, but on that cleric I don't even aim to kill them. I love to see them raged because they can't kill with their 'supposedly' godly gears and their 'knowledge' and they start going all grumpy and losing it and I find that particularily funny. And then they say something like 'bleh stupid +9s' and I'm like 'I'm not +9' so they start shouting 'cookied fail'... and well... you know the rest of the story. That is funny. Very funny.

Tell me who won and who lost that fight. And I didn't click on my bash skill but once.

You certainly didn't win ... you tied ... but you didn't win.


Ok, I guess. Although I would never consider a dedicated PKer challenging. How can someone whose highest lvl character ignores half of the game be challenging?
But you could say that's just me....

Who said anything about ignoring half of the game? And as you say below, you find combat against a person more challanging than a mob.


You are missing the best ones, then. I think some of them have posted just above me, or their names have just been mentioned. I highly suggest you to check on them.
And now that luckily Ryel made her post, I can mention her: Senza is to me the one cleric I most admire. Just in case you want a name to start off your research. Not only she can hurt, but also I have seen her perform unextended and unsparcashed better than some sc-relying clerics. I remember one GT I was on viewing mode, put follow on her and watched her the entire match. Teamed, 1-1, whatever you want to come up with, she was impressive. Now if that is not PVP (call it player vs player, player vs playerS, or whatever you want), then heck I don't know what PVP is..

Maybe I have missed them .... it is hard to say. I'm not sure what you mean by GT ... but I'm guess that to mean Guild Tournement. If so ... I have no points of reference having never been in one. Guild War's; however, I was in many. Unfortunately, these wars seem to involve us getting royally stomped by either:

A) between 1 to 10 people who were all stared and could (and did) kill us a fast as we spawned.
B) outnumbered by a guild of similar level by 4 or 5 to one.

I can not comment on your friend. I have never met them to my knowledge.


Don take this wrong, but maybe, just maybe, there is something you are doing that you need to review. And I don't mean skill wise only..

Please. Don't be insulting. It is a simple fact that there is scant praise for PVP clerics who aren't heal bots. It is seen in threads all through these forums. And, unfortunately, praise typically only comes from friends ... almost NEVER comes from strangers.

AND

Then you have the gall to suggest that I need to review my actions? What do you even know about me to suggest such a thing? :mad: Your whole comment is rather arrogant, condencending and insulting.

I'm done with this ... wasted too much time on it already.

[Dthugtherealist]

1.) Well, believe what you want. However, the reality all depends on your point of view and your experiences. PVP is all about killing people. Nothing more. Nothing Less. Guild Wars reduce clerics to heal bots and targets. I know. I've been there. That is part of the reason I'm guildless now.



2.) "trying to kill" ... doesn't sound like they were successful. Only a dumb PVP'er attacks someone 20 lvl's above them. They have no chance of winning unless you let them kill you. And if they can't tell you are lvl 100 by the aura ... to bad for them.

1.) Imma believe what I want cuz I've seen and done everything in PvP I've killed people with every weapon there is yes even the 1h. I could prolly say I haven't Pk'ed but some people will say if you PvP no matter what the circumstances you are player killing so whatever. Thing that annoys me the most out of anything in a PvP situation is a Cleric who knows how to use every one of there skills especially in wars and GT's and Imma tell you why. If a Cleric is able to tank me for a long period of time they can call backup easily and I will lose the fight in some way or another. Clerics who have godly dmg in terms of being a Cleric are even more scary cuz a full end Cleric is really just for the HP/Block rate now you got a Defensive DD Cleric or a full out dmg cleric coming your way you gotta watch your HP now cuz that Cleric won't be with a +0 Hammer or Mace wacking you they'll be with a HG or Higher Boss wep+10'ed using strike sets or might sets and burrying you trust me I know Senza has killed me with her 1.4k dmg bashes lol.

Not to mention they can still heal and do everything better than every other type of Cleric cuz there way more alert cuz there watching everything. Also about your wars thing why you telling me this lol? I'm a vet of many many many many many wars I've dominated I've been in close wars I've been spammed many many many times so really its nothing to tell me about in a War, everybody is gonna get killed but the people that have the most impact are the Players that are hardest to take down it makes the Wars easier for everybody idk about you but you can suit me up with the most perfect gears ever and throw me in a war if theres no Clerics or Knights Imma die way more than what I would be doing with em.

I can't believe a 102 Glad is telling a Cleric about Cleric PvP lol......... But I've experienced it all so I'm saying from Experience when I talk I woudn't be on the Cleric section if I didn't know anything about Clerics.

2.) Simple shiz I was pointing out no matter what lvl you are if you are good people are gonna come for your head no matter the lvl whether its 110 or lvl 85. Lvl doesn't change anything except that once you get higher depending on who you are there is crazy high expectations. If you are really good when people kill you even with a gang they will brag just brush it off and if you don't like PvP don't be apart of it. Just because your good or one of the best doesn't meen you won't get killed in PvP you actually have 20000% chance of dying more cuz people will pay more attention to you send more Gangs at you and will pin you down. Great Players tho respond to that in different fashion.

[istorage]

Please. Don't be insulting. It is a simple fact that there is scant praise for PVP clerics who aren't heal bots. It is seen in threads all through these forums. And, unfortunately, praise typically only comes from friends ... almost NEVER comes from strangers.


because there how many str clerics who bash on the whole of bijou that don't completely suck? because str cleric is as popular a build as str glads? should you see a proportionate amount of praise for such a tiny pool of members?

because all of those 'best <class>' threads aren't full of people praising their friends anyway? ok...

and in case you were talking about healing: why would strangers compliment your healing? if you've healed them, then you've partied them at some point right? are your social skills so absolutely devoid that you can't make friends?

why would you want strangers to comment on your healing anyway? unless you're another 'good' cleric i doubt you know what a 'good' cleric heals like



AND

Then you have the gall to suggest that I need to review my actions? What do you even know about me to suggest such a thing? :mad: Your whole comment is rather arrogant, condencending and insulting.

I'm done with this ... wasted too much time on it already.

lady, the fact that you think this:



The PVP KQ mechanics do have something to say about PVP in general. Cleric and archers need the invincible hammer to make kills. Or they need to attack someone being attacked by someone else to get a kill. Otherwise, plan to spend most of the KQ lying dead to try to perserve enough points to get some decent exp for a 7-9 place finish.


is how a cleric must act in pvp kq...

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1532/lollercoaster.gif

libra's comment is arrogant and condescending? i would think your attitude of "i'm so right that i don't need to read the rest of the thread and continue to hound libra with points she has already refuted" to be far more arrogant when she has tried to be respectful



between 1 to 10 people who were all stared and could (and did) kill us as fast as we spawned


no idea what you were trying to say here, but by implication there was an incident where 1 person killed all of you ("kill us")? you're what? closing in on 100?

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/2567/32977444657dd2f698de.jpg

i hope you realize you can mount before the idle time goes away. being 100 doesn't give you magical powers that let you knock over all non-prestige players with a single breath



Maybe I have missed them .... it is hard to say. I'm not sure what you mean by GT ... but I'm guess that to mean Guild Tournement. If so ... I have no points of reference having never been in one. Guild War's; however, I was in many. Unfortunately, these wars seem to involve us getting royally stomped by either:


everything you've written sounds like major angst. are you one of those people who bash while in an FBZ war? or maybe you have +0s and somehow expect to perform as well as somebody who is +9ed?

cleric is named 'cleric' for a reason. you're welcome to bash, but don't think you can get away with bashing in PvP while your party dies



I'm done with this ... wasted too much time on it already.

bye

[fenris_bane]

Sorry ... I couldn't let these lame statements about me pass without comment.


lady ...

... you're what? closing in on 100?

sheesh .... lol ... you obviously know nothing about me. Therefore: your comments about me have no validity.

[librachan]

I'm not sure anyone else much cares what we think ....

I still hope the new generations of clerics (if there is still some) are interested. We are actually discussing some very interesting and valid points. I would care...



The PVP KQ mechanics do have something to say about PVP in general. Cleric and archers need the invincible hammer to make kills. Or they need to attack someone being attacked by someone else to get a kill. Otherwise, plan to spend most of the KQ lying dead to try to perserve enough points to get some decent exp for a 7-9 place finish.

Ok. I really don't know what else to tell you. Ryel has even posted pics of her and Babe getting first only because they had the least amount of deaths.
But, alright.



You certainly didn't win ... you tied ... but you didn't win.

You are only looking at what you want to see.





Who said anything about ignoring half of the game? And as you say below, you find combat against a person more challanging than a mob.

I did. Pkers do ignore half of the game (those who never make it pass the abyss levels).
And yes I do.




Maybe I have missed them .... it is hard to say. I'm not sure what you mean by GT ... but I'm guess that to mean Guild Tournement. If so ... I have no points of reference having never been in one. Guild War's; however, I was in many. Unfortunately, these wars seem to involve us getting royally stomped by either:

A) between 1 to 10 people who were all stared and could (and did) kill us a fast as we spawned.
B) outnumbered by a guild of similar level by 4 or 5 to one.

I can not comment on your friend. I have never met them to my knowledge.

GT is Guild Tourny, yes. It doesn't matter if you have or have not been in one. My point was that Senza had (5, I think?) multiple fighters (glad, knights and 9x fighters) on her and still did not die. She was unextended if I recall correctly. And only her and another pt member around, so we can't even say her def was amazingly boosted by 5 member pt.
The other pt member died. She stood there. All on her. Only died when like 2 more people arrived (it was like most of that other guild's DD on that flag lol). She bashed, killed and healed herself, survived, and healed the pt member (who eventually got back to flag to kill them).

I don't think I have ever seen such an amazing cleric'ing performance.

This could have happened in abyss, fbz, GW, GT, any pvp instance.
Yet, NOT ANY CLERIC, would have made it like this.

Again. Multiple people against one non extended cleric? And she is not a PVP cleric because sometimes she chooses to stay back, heal, and survive?
Sorry, I still think it takes way more than just simple bashing to achieve what Senza did there.



Please. Don't be insulting. It is a simple fact that there is scant praise for PVP clerics who aren't heal bots. It is seen in threads all through these forums. And, unfortunately, praise typically only comes from friends ... almost NEVER comes from strangers.

I beg your pardon? WHERE DID I INSULTED YOU?
Listen , I don't care if you are sensitive about your cleric skills or what, but ALL I SAID WAS that, if THERE ARE OTHERS who have achieved the things you claim as impossible, IN YOUR OPINION all those are wrong and YOU ONLY are right?
Dont you think its MORE LIKELY THAT YOU ARE MISSING SOMETHING that you need to check?
Sorry if the word 'review' hurt your feelings. I'm not english native speaker so my vocabulary is limited. BUT THAT is what I meant, what I just said above.

Think of me whatever you want. I don't care. But I will not allow you to say I insulted you when, after trying to convince you that YOUR CLASS CHOICE AND YOU GAMEPLAY CHOICE ARENT USELESS, that there ARE OTHERS OUT THERE LIKE YOU, that you are not alone and that THERE ARE PEOPLE TO ASK FOR ADVICE, you pick one word to accuse me of trying to be disrespectful to you. Gosh...



AND

Then you have the gall to suggest that I need to review my actions? What do you even know about me to suggest such a thing? :mad: Your whole comment is rather arrogant, condencending and insulting.

I'm done with this ... wasted too much time on it already.

Yes I do. Ohyes Im arrogant, condeskdklwdwlnding and insulting. Whatever. Everyone out there is wrong, and you are the only one who's got the truth. WALK FREE OH MIGHTY PREACHER!

It's sad that, having you chosen one of the most uncommon playing styles, who takes determination and continous improvement, you give up on your choice just because you are frustrated over a few kills in pvp. It's sad, because you could be, being able to do more than just simple healing, a much more versatile and unique cleric. It's sad because, you could be promising.

But sure, go ahead and think that I'm (what were the words?) arrogant, condescending and insulting. I'll keep on watching and learning instead of blocking myself to advice and thinking that I have wasted 106 levels.



sheesh .... lol ... you obviously know nothing about me. Therefore: your comments about me have no validity.

Search for other posts from istorage (Ryel), and tell me if ANYONE can say her comments have no validity.

...


There is no more respect for knowledge in these forums...

[darknightofwind]

Actually I find this quite interesting and I do care to hear advice / stories from people who have done what I want to try. It's nice to know that this is not only possible, but with enough effort, patience, and time spent quite practical.

While it may be true that there is "little to no praise for PVP clerics who aren't heal bots" why should the opinions of others matter if you know you're doing well? During the 55-69 pvp kq my cleric was called "n00b," "fail," and various other things for being near unkillable sans-hammer or 50-70% charms. Not even a half hour later she was praised (and sometimes still is) during the other KQs and instances for being a good cleric. I clanked in MD, occasionally in spider, and still do in KKP from time to time. I was able to solo CC as well as tank the bosses and very few people died while I was able to do something about it.


You certainly didn't win ... you tied ... but you didn't win.

I'm going to have to agree with Libby and strongly disagree with you on this one.. she did win. Maybe not in the traditional sense of killing someone, but there's more than one way to win (imo). It also ties into the example she provided of Senza as well as what Ryel stated. If you want a practical application lets look at fbz / guild wars.
(please take note, I'm strongly disagreeing with your opinion / stance on this, in no way am I saying you're wrong simply that I see it in a different way)

If you are unable to be killed in any pvp situation after many many disabling sessions of spam stun / fear and various other skills (frozen with nova + inferno below you, stifled after being chain feared, stunned with 2 or more people facerolling skills on you, etc) that makes you far more valuable to a party based pvp than the cleric who gets two hit / killed during any of those combos continuously. It also makes them waste those moves on you so they're left with no trump cards to play defensively when you or your party attack.

Both my archer and cleric get called cookied from time to time (why, I'm not really sure, lol), but I'm able to tank or withstand many many attacks from various groups. In a party based setting this lets me take one to three fighters, sometimes a mage or two, and pull them away from the main group so my party can kill the cleric or other members, then come back and kill who I've been distracting / kiting. Sometimes I can kill the other party members, other times I can only chip at their health and waste their fear / deva / sleep / etc.

So while neither of us may have been killing anyone in these examples they certainly weren't killing us either. A cleric who can take those beatings so the party doesn't have to is far more valuable than the cleric who can get picked off every 2-3 seconds after respawn (like you and the others who were killed by "starred players").

Looking back at what Ryel (istorage) and Libby said about pvp kq (winning from lack of deaths) doesn't that tell you it's effective? You build yourself as a wall that is near impossible to kill then you bring your party (or pvp hammer) to provide the dmg dealing while you keep yourself (and them) alive. Knowing when to switch from offense to defense, and vice-versa, is one of the most crucial things to learn in a pvp setting, as well as key to a parties survival.

It takes a whole other breed of cleric to not only be that defensive wall, but to be the damage dealer as well (without using pvp hammers), something that I haven't been able to pull off (partially due to lack of enhanced gears / weps).

I can't provide much more insight since the old ways of soloing I used to do (certain skills to speed up attack rate) have had animations changed, but I'm sure there's some way to get a true form of stacking going again in addition to the empowerments provided already.