Where to put stats in? =/

[GaryDavid]

Well I'm planning to make me a Neo =P but I don't know where to put my stats =/ would it be good 2 agi 1 pow or how do you think it would be good? =P

[KrystalTamaro]

What I did was level off my agi at 20, then added til I had 5 sta, then added 5 men, then after that, I went 2 agi, 1 pow. Buuuuut that's just me. I like to get the vegetables before I go for the juicy meat. :3

[OrangeTofu]

I would recommend going full Agi. untill you hit the rogue lvl..It's also good to get 3 of the Anklet Acessories.

[AasemD]

All agi will have slow time leveling, and will need parties, I went 3 agi 2 pow, Best Solo Neo.

[darkoda]

Slow time leveling? Im levelling fine, you just have to know what to train on.

[Skyosto123]

All i'm doing is all agility and 1 pow and/or sta for every armor change. Thats me though, dont expect me to know everything. :cool:

[bluewolf0510]

i really don't know what to put stats in for the long run but im putting in pow when i need it for gears and the rest goes to agi. If anyskill need some stats i will adjust for them.

from what i heard agi give you 2 power form every three skill points
plus all the other benefits like : crit, skill crit, attack speed, dodge and movement speed.

so agi built sound good to me
im no expert.

[Shiryou]

I'm going with an agi/pow build (I put 1 stat in pow every few levels and the rest I put into agi)

[Asteroid]

i pump everything into AGI , cus i benifits alot i guess ? and also add to ur dmg . i didnt pump POW to wear new shield . thats jus my 2 cents

[marchibo]

2 agi
2 men
1 pov
1 sta
very balanced crit/pow

[Zappan]

I'd like to think 2 agi 1 pow is a great build for soloing, and some men every now and then ^.^

[ENDER3000]

what stats should i focus on after i become a neophyte?? btw does a rogue = neophyte??

[Shiryou]

what stats should i focus on after i become a neophyte?? btw does a rogue = neophyte??

no rogue is one of the classes that a neophtye can advance to....it goes neophtye > rogue > assassin > shadow master...

[XiiaoDesDes]

Does states reset when changing class to example scount? :confused:

[pielover]

Does states reset when changing class to example scount? :confused:yup you have to change 4 class

[DragZser]

omg...anyone plss tell true...wat to put in?????

[DragZser]

i'm soooo confuse...wat is the MAIN stats for Rouge????

[GaryDavid]

As I have read agi is the main stat for Neophyte class o.o
Thanks to you all for the advices ^^

[bigdominic18]

it is ive stuck with a pow/agi worked well id say full agi is used for people who party alot plus with more pow u are able to carry more stuff which makes sense n the long run if u solo more n partys u rarelly get equips....like always its a matter of prefence i miss playin this game i wish someone has help for me

[HeartlessOfOblivion]

but going full agility gives you a faster attack rate and avoidence and movement speed

[bigdominic18]

i havent heard of anyones agility being faster other than that skill that helps u get faster agility according to ur agility lvl

[Aurican]

Agility is the primary stat. Keep up with Pow requirements for the shield, it is important with an increased dodge rate + defence! A Neo works best by mixing standard and skill attacks, so Men is the second most important stat! Put every lvl divisble by 5 into Men, excluding any Pow requirements that need to be met. Again, just my opinion.

[bluewolf0510]

i dont know how you guy are doing but my is great. it full agi mostly.
im level 34 with 7 pow and 35+1 agi. sta 4.
with all my buffs on i rarely take full damage and i crit alot. my dsp is better then most classes at same level with out crits. mage is sligthly higher. i can solo very well because i rarely get hit. With this build just keep your buffs and you sould be fine.
i go thou about 250 mp before i go thou 2/3s my hp.

[Everto]

i dont know how you guy are doing but my is great. it full agi mostly.
im level 34 with 7 pow and 35+1 agi. sta 4.


LIE! D:
Don't you need STA 5 to advance to Neo?

[Zeltar]

pow gives you more cary capacity, but i prefer to just use a retrn scroll, andslice them up twice as fast.

[AasemD]

I see it thi way, Your good against everything with low defense with all agi, With pow it makes you a hybrid you ma even be able you take on tanks in the future considering you play your cards right :/

[krispon]

LIE! D:
Don't you need STA 5 to advance to Neo?

no, only 4 stamina is required.

im 13 power, 45+1 agility, and 4 stamina. lvl 46

i can tell you its hard as hell to solo at this lvl. i am pretty much party dependent now, tho my best xp gain is when i duo with an acolyte. i get hit for 40's from the mobs i have to train on, and if i go one map before the place i have to train, the mobs become slightly grey named and they run when you attack them. quite annoying.

idk what a good build is myself, i soloed fine up til about lvl 40. then things got difficult..

[RozuHime]

Hi, I'm on level 21, and I want to attempt the Labyrinth at around lv 27~. I tried on my current lv, only to get my butt pounded into the ground... Right now, I've put all my stats into agi... will I survive the maze at this rate? or should I put some into sta (or anything else?)

[Daft_Brat]

Hi, I'm on level 21, and I want to attempt the Labyrinth at around lv 27~. I tried on my current lv, only to get my butt pounded into the ground... Right now, I've put all my stats into agi... will I survive the maze at this rate? or should I put some into sta (or anything else?)

Novice lab is best done in a party because you get agro-ed constantly. Advanced lab you'll be able to go through in invis. :D Keep putting your stats in agi.

[bluewolf0510]

most rouge are forgetting Men. We need Men but not as much as Agi but need it none the less. Men is great for increasing Crit stats about 2/3 ration for a Crit stat in Both Crit and skill Crit. Have you notice that with Agi, Skill Crit goes up alot fast than normal Crit? But with Men Crit goes up just as fast as Skill Crit.

Standerd Attack Crits almost double it power while Skill Crits is only about 20% more power.

Agi = must.
Men = very good.
Pow = ok.
Sta = meh.
Int = bad.
Wisdom = bad.

[blackz90]

i surely agree with bluewolf0510 men is a good stat for neophytes. Standard attack crits which almost double it's power + a fast attack speed from agi makes what it takes to be a good crit neophyte. standard critical at later lvls can = the damage done to threaten dmg. power is good for solo for more pots and some attack. poeple who repots too much will lose alot more exp than people who stay in map for a longer time. so what if u have higher damage but have to stay off map for a longer period of time. sta is not a good stat for neophyte because of their high evoid. too much agi is not too good as well, i notice that adding 1 agi will more or less only adds another 10 dmg to your atk. which is not much a difference. well at least thats what i think.

[hyoten]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isred.jpgTake the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz. (http://www.wizards.com/magic/playmagic/whatcolorareyou.asp)

[Rodaa]

great post hyoten!

great post!

[arianmsani]

great post hyoten!

great post!

Lol, V.Funny Roda..

[Souppster]

While distributing a stat point, highlighting stats on the left causes the stats on the right to change color.

When putting the mouse over AGI

POW is in GREY
Dodge, Att. Speed, Critcial, Skill Critical are in Blue


When putting the mouse over MEN

Dodge is in Grey
Hit Rate, Critcial, Skill Critical are in Blue

What do these colors represent?

[Tea_Fan]

I'm guessing that blue stats are those that are increased, while grey ones are those that are decreased.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[darkoda]

Blue - Increased
Grey - Increased to a lesser extent

[bluewolf0510]

Blue - Increased
Grey - Increased to a lesser extent

i agree with you. but it is seem there as to be some more to it then that.
i cant put my finger on it yet just give me time.
if there is a state reset at 66. Im going to play around with the states to find out more.

[euph92]

Im a 36lvl Neo n my stats are
7pow
37agi
2men

I nvr thought of adding men bfore i read this article. Are my stats badly added?? I find it quite difficult to level at these levels

[arianmsani]

Im a 36lvl Neo n my stats are
7pow
37agi
2men

I nvr thought of adding men bfore i read this article. Are my stats badly added?? I find it quite difficult to level at these levels

Its alright, actually, ur damage should be quite good, continue going Agi and Pow for ur shield

[VanKerabotak]

2 agi
2 men
1 pow
1 sta

im a newbie and i didnt understand this. Is it some kind of ratio?

[Outic]

u mean POW ONLY ADDS WEIGHT CAPACITY?! but when i put my cursor over pow. the attk damage lights up.

[exzult]

i think for a bow user the best thing to do is to add up to its agi since it's a ranged type job

i'm not saying that i know alot about the ranged class it's just that in every MMORPG that i play i always use a ranged character so based on exp i'd say that it's best to put it all up to agi and if there are some minor adjustments to ba done then it will not be that hard to adjust ^_^

[Mikitan]

@_@ Just a quick note I thought I should add.

I was leveling up my neo last night - Reached level 20 and thought I should add in a point in STA for more HP.. It gave me like 10~12 more points I think? Can't remember xD- But what I do remember is hitting at a slower rate and doing less damage. X__X STA not only added more HP but it put back .2 in my attack rate. :/ @_# Raggle fraggle. So, Don't put any points in STA unless you're willing to level 2 more to get back those lost .2 attack rate in AGI. x_______________x

[SPDgonzales]

i put POW just to get the stronger shield, then i put all the rest into AGI

[bhiejz]

i put 3 agi and 2 men 1 pow..
i wont need sta because im aiming
for critical attacks and great dodges..
that's all.

[Aurican]

The closer you are to the characters WT limit, the higher the Att Spd. will raise >_>. This doesn't occur until the bar turns red..

[FatTony30]

something I found interesting:

while still a Xenian, right b4 I change class, I put all 19 pts in Agi, reset, then all 19 pts in Men.

Oddly enough, with all pts in Agi, normal crit was still 2, and skill crit was 6 I think. But with all pts in Men, both crit and skill crit were 12.

I realize it's probably slightly different for rogues, but still I'd say Men is very important. That is, if u want crits. You could just stick with agi if you're more concerned with dodging and base damage i guess, but that's boring :)

[SilverTitan]

i find that ppl that want to become a rogue need agi but not too much

i found that my character is more all around but my damage is that of 2lvls lower than me could it be cuz my bamboo dagger is not +1 or is it my stats

lvl 40 with: 12pow, 5sta, 31 agi, 7men

[Aurican]

Agi/Men while keeping up with POW requirements is very effective. Since a Neo is designed to avoid damage you don't need to carry alot of pots. <_<

[DNA8383]

lvl 45 neo

my build
7 in power (+1 when needed for shield)
4 in stamina (to change to neo)
50+3 in agility

all other stats are 1

[cronicle861]

it better to follow the information about neophytes i rather stay full agi....

<a href="http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/wilfred_naruto1/?action=view&current=trans.gif" target="_blank"><img src="http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/wilfred_naruto1/trans.gif" border="0" alt="Gundam"></a>

[Tea_Fan]

Hrm... I can see the advantages of adding MEN and whatever else outside of pure AGI and the little bit of POW here and there for shields, though the way I'm going is pure AGI for now, mainly for the following reason:

If I need to change my stats later, I'd find it easier to add a point or two to the other stats rather than feel regretful about having already put points into categories I can't withdraw from.

On the other hand, yes, it may slow me down a bit more, and I may not be as strong as I could be, but until this game has gone on for a bit and gotten out of the Open Beta session, I'd rather play it safe and be patient. :3

[kiisa]

Sooo... You mean being a rouge, u have to be an assasin? assasin = range? o.O

You guys should make ur own guides.. seeing on the stats you add...^^
Thanks for the stats adding advice~

Much appricated~ ^^
I've just started out in the game... Hope i can see you guys in the game..Hehe..

[striker67]

i dont know how you guy are doing but my is great. it full agi mostly.
im level 34 with 7 pow and 35+1 agi. sta 4.
with all my buffs on i rarely take full damage and i crit alot. my dsp is better then most classes at same level with out crits. mage is sligthly higher. i can solo very well because i rarely get hit. With this build just keep your buffs and you sould be fine.
i go thou about 250 mp before i go thou 2/3s my hp.

Sorry to throw you out of your day-dream but i'm same as you except i'm lvl 44. My pwr is even lower. And I keep on dying coz my hp is LOW! Thats y now i decided to add more to sta. In case you're wondering, i train on WHITE mobs! And almost all my equips are +1s. So give me a reason y i can't 'dodge' as well as you! And att speed doesn't relli matter if you're fighting with mobs you can kill in less than ten hits. And pwr +2 to attack unlike agi which +1attack for every two stats. Even thats not constant! AND in case you havent noticed, agi doesn't increase normal crit!! My character is a living testament!!!
AND pure agi neos' CANT solo!! Read the other forum entries on this.

[striker67]

no, only 4 stamina is required.

im 13 power, 45+1 agility, and 4 stamina. lvl 46

i can tell you its hard as hell to solo at this lvl. i am pretty much party dependent now, tho my best xp gain is when i duo with an acolyte. i get hit for 40's from the mobs i have to train on, and if i go one map before the place i have to train, the mobs become slightly grey named and they run when you attack them. quite annoying.

idk what a good build is myself, i soloed fine up til about lvl 40. then things got difficult..

WELL_SAID!!! I couldn't agree more! So now i'm adding more to sta, so more hp to solo! You shud try that too. Coz pure agi or agi/pwr simply won't work! :) I suppose you wanna be a rogue?

[striker67]

Anyway wads your definition of "things got difficult"? Does it mean you keep dying???

[thoth22]

topic: "where to put stats in"

ans: in the stats window

[Propanol]

I have put a lot stats into MEN instead of AGI. (POW12, AGI40, MEN15)
And I found myself quite weaker than Neophytes of pure AGI.

[Zeltar]

Sorry to throw you out of your day-dream but i'm same as you except i'm lvl 44. My pwr is even lower. And I keep on dying coz my hp is LOW! Thats y now i decided to add more to sta. In case you're wondering, i train on WHITE mobs! And almost all my equips are +1s. So give me a reason y i can't 'dodge' as well as you! And att speed doesn't relli matter if you're fighting with mobs you can kill in less than ten hits. And pwr +2 to attack unlike agi which +1attack for every two stats. Even thats not constant! AND in case you havent noticed, agi doesn't increase normal crit!! My character is a living testament!!!
AND pure agi neos' CANT solo!! Read the other forum entries on this.


Correction:
Pow gives 2/3 Attack. + carry capacity
AGI gives 2/3 attack + attack speed(I have 0.6, it does make a huge difference), dodge, crits.

Therefore with AGI you do more damage then POW
Anyone that says POW gives more damage should look at the exact effect of each stat. remember we are Neophytes, each class is affected by stats differently. Maybe a squire might get 2DMG//POW (I doubt it).

Killing faster even on white mobs means you get exp faster, takes less time to kill them (and you might be able to kill them before BS wears off. Killing them faster means that you get hit less, and so can kill more in a row before you need to stop to rest.

WELL_SAID!!! I couldn't agree more! So now i'm adding more to sta, so more hp to solo! You shud try that too. Coz pure agi or agi/pwr simply won't work! :) I suppose you wanna be a rogue?

Where do you get the idea that “agi/pwr simply won't work” that’s what I have, and don’t have any problems. I haven’t put any stats into STA, I can handle 3 at a time. And if I get mobbed by more then 3 then I always can use invisibility. I kill them much faster, and dodge more, so receive less damage. I haven’t ever had a problem, and don’t see the need for adding any STA.

Anyway wads your definition of "things got difficult"? Does it mean you keep dying???

We have the fastest speed to run from problems, invisibility, escape, blind sight, and evil voice. We can get out of trouble better than anyone else. If things are too difficult we can always get out of there, that’s the whole idea of the neophyte. We’re not supposed to use STA to tank like a squire.


On the topic of MEN, I did a test with a friend who had 15MEN, my skill speed was 1.1sec, hid was 1sec. while my normal attack was 0.6sec, and his was 0.7sec. I did about 30 more DMG per threaten 10 more DMG per normal hit.

So when doing perfect weaving his DPS would be something like:
80/0.7+200/1=314
Mine was:
90/0.6+230/1.1=359

I also had 4 more dodge, meaning that I would receive 4% less DMG from combat, and would use 10% less manna


People can do what they want, but for me numbers speak louder than words. Sure there are many good ways, and everyone can share experiences, but how do you know if it’s the best way.

[FatTony30]

that still doesn't factor in the about 5% higher accuracy and 9-10% higher crit rate (for both skills and normal atks) from MEN.

btw, how do you get those skill speed numbers? Or are you just guesstimating?

[Zeltar]

that still doesn't factor in the about 5% higher accuracy and 9-10% higher crit rate (for both skills and normal atks) from MEN.

btw, how do you get those skill speed numbers? Or are you just guesstimating?


the skill speed numbers were done using 10 tests with my friend, I skill spammed a mob, getting 10 hits in 11 sec (before the mob died) and my friend with 15MEN skill spammed the same type of mob, and I timed an average of 10sec for 10 hits.


OK, I knew someone would get picky and want everything calculated in. I tried to keep everything simple without crits(the crit % is only a small difference), as It’s fairly clear already according to my eyes. But I’m in the mood for some pointless maths, so let’s compensate for crit hits just for fun.

Ok, I seem to get about 150 for normal crit, and 300 for skill crit.
So that is about +60dmg
The base dmmg of Men char is 80/90=88% of the pure AGI

I’m guessing crits is proportionatly related to base DMG, hence it would give +53DMG for the mix build.

The base crit is 2, Now for 54AGI I get 11 skill crit, so that means 9/54=0.1666 skill crit/AGI
For some reason AGI doesn’t affect the normal crit. With accuracy it gives 8crit, 17skill crit

Does anyone have any data on how MEN affects crit??
Let’s say that it is twice as effective as AGI, and affects both crit and skill crit at a rate of 1/3.
So the 15 points moved into men would give 5 normal and 5 skill crit. Adding in 39AGI, base of 2, and 6 for accuracy would give 13 crit, 19.5 skill crit(note you need to factor in the loss from loss og AGI points).

Now back to the prev equations:

15 MEN, rest into AGI
DPS=(80+0.13*53)/0.7+(200+53*.195)/1=334

Pure AGI
DPS=(90+60*0.08)/0.6+(230+60*0.17)/1.1=376

that makes the difference 12.6% better when calculating crits, compared to the 14.3315 better when not calculating crits

it is actually interesting that the MEN build has more chance of crit on one hit, but the PURE AGI build deals more damage from a crit, and deals hits/second, so compensates for the reduced chance of crit on one hit as it hits more so giving more chances for a crit.

Now if you want to calculate in dodge, AGI=0.25 dodge.
With enhance2 (+12 dodge)
So AGI pure has
23+12=35 dodge
And 15MEN char has
19+12=31 dodge.

So then you could look at it in terms of how much damage you deal over how much damage they deal (ie how much HP you lose in the time it takes you to kill the mob)
So on average:
Damage inflicted=your_DPS/(1-mob_dodge/100)
Damage received=Mob_DPS/(1-your_dodge/100)

So damage inflicted/received=your_DPS*(1-your_dodge/100)/( Mob_DPS*(1-mob_dodge/100))
Now we can say we’re fighting the same mob, therefore the mob dodge and mob dmg are constants, and can be canceled out of the equations as they only operate as a scaler.

For 15 MEN:
your_DPS*(1-your_dodge/100)=334/(1-.31)=484
for Pure AGI
your_DPS*(1-your_dodge/100)=376/(1-.35)=578

this makes the pure AGI about 20% better in damage inflicted/received.

the extra dodge (combined with more DPS) means that there will be less dmg recieved, and so that means that less time will be spent sitting, or money spent on pots.

I know the calculations are rough, but for my eyes it’s such a huge margin, even with giving 1MEN=1crit it still wouldn’t be enough to equal the pure AGI.

naturally the numbers change at different levels, who knows what it'll be like aroud 100+, but for the time being i see no point in deviating from the pure AGI build.

Anyway that’s my calculations for fun, people can comment on this, take it how you want, use whatever strat you want. Everyone has free choice and nobody is forcing you to play one way or another.

This is just my calculations to contribute to the community understanding so everyone can make their own informed decision.

[Tea_Fan]

I know the calculations are rough, but for my eyes it’s such a huge margin, even with giving 1MEN=1crit it still wouldn’t be enough to equal the pure AGI.

naturally the numbers change at different levels, who knows what it'll be like aroud 100+, but for the time being i see no point in deviating from the pure AGI build.

Holy cow, girl. Nice job with the calculations. I must admit that I'm too lazy to find another Neophyte around my level and test stat-builds like you did. Great job!

...And it makes me feel warm and gooey inside knowing that I'm going pure AGI for the very reasons you so well supported. :D [all AGI, minimum POW for shields]

[Zeltar]

Holy cow, girl. Nice job with the calculations. I must admit that I'm too lazy to find another Neophyte around my level and test stat-builds like you did. Great job!

...And it makes me feel warm and gooey inside knowing that I'm going pure AGI for the very reasons you so well supported. :D [all AGI, minimum POW for shields]

I'm glad you like the calculations. for me the calculations mean a lot more htne someone saying "i used this build, and got to X lvl, so therefore it is the best build" who knows with another build they could have made X+2 lvls.

hey i've seen you around the training fields a lot last weekend, maybe we could share an acolyte sometime.

[FatTony30]

heheh, didn't expect you to actually try factoring it in XD

well I wont nitpik your calculations, as obviously more power (AGI in neo's case) is more guaranteed dmg over time. But crit hitting is just so satisfying to me, even if bonus dmg is pretty crap. There's nothing like gettin 4-5 crits in a row...ya, ya, YA, YA YA!

[Tea_Fan]

But crit hitting is just so satisfying to me, even if bonus dmg is pretty crap. There's nothing like gettin 4-5 crits in a row...ya, ya, YA, YA YA!

That's why I love the Neo buff "Accuracy". <3

[talonmas]

Zeltar, did you compare your weaving vs. his pure skill spam? Cause most people I see adding Men doesnt weave... That's kinda the idea with adding men. Be able to use the attack skill instead of the crappy based damage.

[Zeltar]

Zeltar, did you compare your weaving vs. his pure skill spam? Cause most people I see adding Men doesnt weave... That's kinda the idea with adding men. Be able to use the attack skill instead of the crappy based damage.

Weaving does more damage then pure skill spam (proven in another forum thread).

The action of performing a skill strike takes approximately 0.6s(I wonder if it’s actually your attack speed or just a coincidence), while the period of cool-down for threaten skill is 1.1s. When the skill is cooling down you can’t use any other skill
So when weaving you can do a noromal hit(0.6) and a threaten(0.6) in 1.2sec

Now threaten is 2.5Xnormal dmg. Eg N=90, T=225
So skill spaming you do
DPS=T/1.1=204
Weaving you do
DPS= (N+T)/(0.6+0.6)=262.5

You are also using less manna in this process.

If my assumption that skill strike action time=normal strike action time
Then weaving at 0.7 speed will give DPS= (N+D)/(0.6+0.6)=225
Note that here you’ll be doing more damage, and using skill every 1.4s instead of every 1.1s, so be only using 78.5% of the manna.

A interesting thing with weaving is that as you get to higher levels and your attack time goes to 0.3 then it might be best to do normal, normal, skill, normal, normal, skill etc.

[Zeltar]

ok I've been thinking
what would be a better rogue all out i mean
a pow based rogue or an agi based rogue
ive been looking at what stat does when added in agi and it does in Pow
heres my theory
Agi = (movement speed and small amount of attack)dodge?
Pow=(Attack +?)

but what would be best to do for for rogue or neo...

Ok, on the topic of POW vs AGI, I guess I might as well solve this myth once and for all while I’m at it.
It is a misconception that stats in power give more damage than AGI. Each stat has different effects on different attributes depending on your class. Eg for a Xenian POW=1DMG. For a squire pow gives a lot more DMG than AGI.

But for Neophyte:
POW GIVES EXACTLY THE SAME DAMAGE BONUS AS AGI!

POW= 2/3DMG, 30 max weight
AGI= 2/3 DMG, -1/150 second from attack speed, ¼ dodge, 1/6 skill crit.

Note:
-Attack speed is rounded to 0.1, so 15AGI=-0.1s.
-AGI does not boost normal crit, just skill crit.
-AGI does NOT boost movement speed. +1 boots, cash shop items(fox tail, cloak), and rapid step increase movement speed. Probably class change to Rogue will also boost your movement speed.
-30max weight actually only gives you +21 weight carry capacity, as you can only effectively carry 60-70% of max (neo is one class that should never go overweight)

I have tested this extensively in CB with the stat reset, and also compared stats with friends on OB, checking the excel sheets to confirm it has not changed.

Therefore the question of POW VS AGI is a question of

(30 max weight) VS (-1/150 attack speed, ¼ dodge, 1/6 skill crit).

AGI giving significant combat advantage, and POW meaning you can carry 4 extra pots.

Here are the facts, you make your decision if you go POW or AGI.

Personally I just carry 4 fewer pots and use a return scroll, while doing MUCH more damage per second with attack rate and skill crits, weaving better so not needing as many MP, and dodging more, so needing less HP.

[foxyroxy]

It is a misconception that stats in power give more damage than AGI. Each stat has different effects on different attributes depending on your class.

Ahh! There is the answer that I've been looking for. I was always confused on why people kept recommending pure AGI for Neophytes, when I thought POW gave more damage input.

Thank you so much for clearing this (as well as your fantastic formulas!)

[Aukake]

So in the end. Where should you put your stats for some good fast attacking and be able to solo? lol. i havent gotten into the game yet. waiting for a new videocard to come in. but im just reading up on things so i know what to do when i get in.

[Zeltar]

So in the end. Where should you put your stats for some good fast attacking and be able to solo? lol. i havent gotten into the game yet. waiting for a new videocard to come in. but im just reading up on things so i know what to do when i get in.

i personally think the best is to put just enough POW to hold your shield(each grade of shields has a POW requirement) and the rest into PURE AGI.
that gives the maximum damage per second, and dodging(better survivability, especially good for solo as you wont have a acolyte)

with all builds in NEO you'll be lacking in damage till you get to about lvl32 and get a better dagger. this limited damage means you will have troubles doing damage to high amour red mobs, forcing you to train on easier mobs. this will improve as you get higher AGI(more DMG, and attack speed) and better weapons. by the time you get to 43 and get rose dagger you'll be doing a lot of dmg, at that time the AGI starts to really pay off.

Neo is a slow starter but picks up later. While some other classes are much stronger at the beginning but then don't improve as much later, so going neophyte requires a bit of patience. in the end your hard work will pay off.

If you have no clue what to do then it’s easiest to start with pure AGI, if at a ater time you chose to add something else you can always put a couple of points elseware, but you can’t take points back if you put them into the wrong places at the start.

Of course this is all my opinion, it's best to read the forums look at the facts for yourself, and make an informed decision based on the facts(read this thread, and as much of the forums as you can) instead of taking someone’s word. just like everything in life: when you come to the conclusions yourself they mean a lot more than if someone tells you some formula to blindly follow.

[FireyDruid]

so basicly putting str on neo's only realy benifits max wt? and thats all?
i mean by benefit is that the only unique stat it increases which is realy not that important

[Zeltar]

so basicly putting str on neo's only realy benifits max wt? and thats all?
i mean by benefit is that the only unique stat it increases which is realy not that important

exactly. +30 max weight, or +21 carry capacity(you only carry 70% of max)

[CrAzYFuZZ]

So a became a Neoph yesterday. But i don't know where to put my stats.. ... Help..? (Yes.. I know this is a lame post..)

[Trashknight]

So a became a Neoph yesterday. But i don't know where to put my stats.. ... Help..? (Yes.. I know this is a lame post..)

AGI, only POW when you need the new shield.

[CrAzYFuZZ]

AGI, only POW when you need the new shield.
Ah, okey. Thanks!

[KazeOkami]

yea bout ur suggestion
i was talkin to Cig
and he told me 10ment 20 agi and all pow till 66 for to be rogue neo
he also told me agi has its first BP(breakpoint) at 20 so that adds .1 sec of attk speed
so im not sure wat i should do

[Shamusthepirate]

All pow does seem kind of eehh...since it only increases damage and max weight (which increases per level anyway). I'd rather put points into agi for now, since until I get to a high level I want to dodge to avoid dying, and deal a high amount of damage. So for me its all agi. Oh and the bonus from stamina is kinda pointless, spamming pots or just random food items is enough.

[Aurican]

You should take three Neos of the same level/EQ and compare them to a full Agi, Pow/Agi, and Pow/Agi/Men builds. While Agi gives the same to attack, did anyone consider the fact that the Pow stat itself might effect base damage? As far as weaving goes the idea is get in as many attacks as possible, so as attack speed lowers that means you can do more attacks before threaten.

[KazeOkami]

ok i talked to a rogue(my freind Haruko)
and he told me this is really good
all agi enough pow to hold shield and then throw in a bit of ment in the higher lvls(60+)
but remember this if u put in ment ull need alot of mp pots since ull b using skills fast

[Crypticism]

in most games ive played, the best solo stats are your classes primary stats, with an even rounded bit of the other stats.

[alchemy121]

rite now in a lvl 19 neo and so far i've got 1 sec atk speed with my enhance
is that good?

[Tea_Fan]

rite now in a lvl 19 neo and so far i've got 1 sec atk speed with my enhance
is that good?

At level 19, it should be enough.

[Zeltar]

can we develop a thread about this stat? ill start with what i know.

a point in agi will not increase hit rate
a point in men will increase this

could this be an important stat to neophytes? could it put more reason to add men points over AGI.

I decided to answer his question here to keep everything in the same place.

for people interested i have also written(and made calculations) about attack time in a couple of other threads
http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31021&highlight=linearly
http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29885&highlight=linearly


The thing you want to do is maximize your DPS, as described in the most in the thread I linked to at the top.
DPS=damage_per_hit/attack_time
So you can boost the numerator(increase DMG), or subtract from the denominator(- attack time)

Now at low numbers subtracting a little off the denominator won’t do as much as boosting the numerator, so it’s important to get your base DMG up (adding AGI). This gives a significant boost to your DMG, so boosting your DPS. This has the most significant affect at low levels, so AGI should be pumped at the start to be able to actuallt do some damage.

When you get to very high levels of AGI(eg 130) you’ll get your attack time to 0.1, which is nearly a divide by zero, giving asymptotic increase in your DPS as you approach 0.1. this is why AGI stacks up nicely. The change from 1.4 to 1.3 is 7.7% more DPS, the change from 0.8 to 0.7 is 14.2%% more DPS, the change from 0.5 to 0.4 is 25% more DPS, and the change from 0.2 to 0.1 is 100% more DPS.

So when you get to high levels of AGI it really starts paying off in your DPS as the denominator goes to zero. Hence your normal attack goes really fast, making weaving much better(weaving is another story in itself)

The same applies with the skill attack.
DPS=skill_DMG/Skill_time
For low levels you need to boost the numerator (cutting -0.1s off the denominator won’t do much if you aren’t doing much damage).

AGI increases skill DMG as it’s based on raw DMG. Men decreases your skill time (my guess is -0.1 for 15MEN, but I’m still gathering data on this).

Then at a certain point(if skill spaming non-stop) there is a break even point, the change of 15points gives -0.1 off attack time=roughly 10% more DPS. 15AGI gives 10DMG(and dodge, and normal rate). Now if your base DMG is under 100 then 10 more DMG gives more than 10% more SPD, eg if your base damage is 80, then you do 90/80=12.5% more DPS. Making it more advantageous to keep pumping pure AGI. With pure skill spaming it might only pay off to put points into MEN once your base DMG goes over 100.

Weaving makes it even more interesting, as it is combining normal strikes with skill strikes. I’m still gathering more exact data on weaving effects and times. What it looks like is that the act of making a skill strike is less than 1s (eg 0.7s), but there is an invisible cool-down timer on threaten based on your men. This invisible cool-down timer becomes the limiting factor when skill spamming, but when doing weaving you can fit in a normal hit between the threaten strikes. When your attack time is fast enough(with low attack time pure skill spam does more DPS) it won’t even slow down your skill strikes, you get a bonus strike between. This actually does slightly more DPS than pure skill spam, this also improves with your AGI as your attack time gets faster.

[Bijoux18]

But for Neophyte:
POW GIVES EXACTLY THE SAME DAMAGE BONUS AS AGI!


O_O

Nice. I really wish I had read this thread sooner. Read: lvl 38, 15 pow, 21 agi. lol. I think I'm gonna switch to a mostly agi build from now on.
Good thing you can reset your stats at lvl 66.

[Zeltar]

O_O

Nice. I really wish I had read this thread sooner. Read: lvl 38, 15 pow, 21 agi. lol. I think I'm gonna switch to a mostly agi build from now on.
Good thing you can reset your stats at lvl 66.

no, unfortunatly you cn't re-set your stats at lvl66. :(
you're not the only person that's dont this.

[Zeltar]

OK, here is some more of my calculations in trying to understand the mechanics of the game. i hope you find it useful. i was going to post this in a reply to another thread but decided to put it here instead so that all the stat info is in the same thread.




As far as I can tell (I need a lot more experimanetal data) the skill cooldown timer is 1.1sec.
My guess is that it could be affected by MEN something like
1.1-1/150*MEN

Now you also have to make a strike in that time. You can only make a skill strike when the skill cooldown timer is over(denied to use skill) and your previous strike is over(another skill is in use).

I’m guessing that the action of the strike is operating under the sametime as the action of a normal strike(AGI) while the cooldown timer is operating under skell speed(MEN)

So lets say your threaten cooldown timer is 1.1 and attack time is 0.7
Then you can spam threaten every 1.1sec
Or you can use normal strike(0.7), followed by threaten(0.7)=1.4sec
So it’s taking 0.3sec longer and you’re slotting in a normal strike between your threatens.

Threaten is about 2.5*normal DMG.
So it’s 2.5/1.1=2.27* base_DMG/sec
Or 3.5/1.4=2.5* base_DMG/sec

But when your attack time is 0.8 then weave time is 1.6
Then 3.5/1.6=2.1875* base_DMG/sec

And when you get 0.6 attack time then
3.5/1.2=2.91 (much better weaving)

0.5 attack rate:
3.5/1.1=3.18 (now the skill cooldown becomes the limiting factor)
4.5/1.5=3 (throwing in 2 normal strikes between threaten will slow you down more, not good)

0.4 attack rate:
3.5/1.1=3.18 (cooldown is limiting factor)
4.5/1.2=3.75 (so now it’s best to throw in 2 normal strikes between a threaten)

That means that when your attack rate is 0.8 or slower then pure skill spam does slightly more damage per second (and used much more manna).

Weaving becomes effective after 0.7 naturally weaving is also very feasible for 0.8 or higher purely in terms of manna consumption(economics).

Naturally increasing MEN will change these break-even points as the threaten cooldown timer will be shorter.

Note, the game does have slight lag, so you’ll sometimes notice 2 strikes appearing on top ofeach other, this is due to the lag in the transmission and processing that makes it appear as if the spacing is a bit chaotic.

[lumaz]

soooo....what are you saying that ....you should add some men after .08sec??

[Zeltar]

soooo....what are you saying that ....you should add some men after .08sec??

what i'm saying is weaving gives more DPS than skill spam after 0.8 (i wish i could get to 0.08sec).

the question is if you're weaving or if you're spamming. if puse spamming then in theory you can drop your skill time from 1.1 to 1 (although lack of AGI will mean lack of DMG even if you're hitting 10% faster). however if going the weaving path then your weaging speed is not affected by MEN, as the limiting factor is the action time, so dropping your skill spam time to 1sec won't speed up your weaving in any way, but instead dropping the attack time to 0.7 will have significant improvement on weaving time. when weaving the affect of changing attack time from 0.8 to 0.7 is more significant than the affect of skill spam cooldown being shortened from 1.1 to 1

it all depends on the way you play the game, you can put stats into MEN, I wouldent say it's such a bad call, just theoretically sub-optimum at this stage, and better utilized at a higher level after you first get your base DMG up(it makes those skills have more affect).

The thing is that you can not re-set your stats at a later date, so it is impossible to reverse mistakes. So put come thought into it before making a decision.

[Oreo4Snacks]

My neo have 15 MEN.

i just love seeing CRITICAL CRITICAL CRITICAL multiple times its awesome lollll

[Bijoux18]

no, unfortunatly you cn't re-set your stats at lvl66. :(
you're not the only person that's dont this.

Opps, sorry. I had assumed that you could. Oh well, at least I'll never have a problem with equiping a shield for a long while!

[Shoiichii]

lol honestly i still dont understand :P and is neo a rouge? (sorry i haven played yet was just doing a lil foreshadowing into my stats) and i think pow is power but i dont get it like do you put all agility till you get to this new shield thing?..

[Tea_Fan]

lol honestly i still dont understand :P and is neo a rouge? (sorry i haven played yet was just doing a lil foreshadowing into my stats) and i think pow is power but i dont get it like do you put all agility till you get to this new shield thing?..

The Path of the Rogue is defined by the following classes and levels:
1-16: Xenian
16-45 OR 16-66: Neophyte
If you choose the Branch path of Archer: 45-80: Scout
80+: Archer
If you choose the Main path of Rogue: 66+ Rogue (further on: Assassin)

In other words, no, a Neophyte (Neo) is not a Rogue - it's the lower-leveled class right before you become a Rogue.

Yes, POW = Power, but in your Stats window, you should see it listed as simply 'POW'.

As to the adding pure agility unless new shield - basically, after you become a Neophyte, just put all your Stat points into AGI. You should always equip the gear fitted to your level. For instance, at level 24, you are able to equip the level 24 Neophyte shield; HOWEVER, you need to have 7 POW in order to equip that shield.

Thus, you should add enough POW (at that point or in the level right before/after) to equip that shield - NO MORE, but no less, either.

[gutszi]

dont mind me thats a lot of reading I skimmed through... but Ive noticed POW adds closer to 1 attack per Pow then the 2/3 stated several times... but even with that being said... Im still building a pure agi rogue, gonna see where it takes because I wanna see myself get 0.0 as my attack speed.

77 agi = attack speed 0.8 + bandit mask (-0.5) + upgraded wep (-0.1) + lvl 1 enhance (-0.2)= attack speed 0.0

and for me to get to 77 agi all I need to be is on roughly lvl 66

[Zeltar]

Opps, sorry. I had assumed that you could. Oh well, at least I'll never have a problem with equiping a shield for a long while!

I wrote the previous posts before they made the cash shop additions, now you can reset your stats with a cash shop item. although i personally prefer getting it right in the first place.

dont mind me thats a lot of reading I skimmed through... but Ive noticed POW adds closer to 1 attack per Pow then the 2/3 stated several times... but even with that being said... Im still building a pure agi rogue, gonna see where it takes because I wanna see myself get 0.0 as my attack speed.

77 agi = attack speed 0.8 + bandit mask (-0.5) + upgraded wep (-0.1) + lvl 1 enhance (-0.2)= attack speed 0.0

and for me to get to 77 agi all I need to be is on roughly lvl 66

i tested this extensively in CB. I have formulas and excell sheets showing how they advance. i have compared to some frineds in OB and their stats seem to folow the advancement patern from my CB tests being 2/3.

it seems like the data follows exactly the same pattern as CB. if anyone is doing a stat-reset then you can contact me to confirm this (also for MEN skill spam tests).

[gutszi]

anywho Im still new and curious.

so does it work like this (POW + AGI) * 2/3 = attack (rounded up)

because my pow = 4 and agi = 36 then my attack is 27 (and with the forumal its 26.6)
and then when I put on my rogue's anklet my attack is 28 and with the forumal its 27.3.

or is the formula more complicated?

EDIT: my bad was basing the 1 pow = 1 attack based on squire class... but Im still curious about the forumla

[Zeltar]

anywho Im still new and curious.

so does it work like this (POW + AGI) * 2/3 = attack (rounded up)

because my pow = 4 and agi = 36 then my attack is 27 (and with the forumal its 26.6)
and then when I put on my rogue's anklet my attack is 28 and with the forumal its 27.3.

or is the formula more complicated?

EDIT: my bad was basing the 1 pow = 1 attack based on squire class... but Im still curious about the forumla

yes that's it.

BTW, with some stats there are some interesting rounding effects. eg enhance2 gives -0.25 attack time (rounded off to 1decimal place), hence changing the jump points. the same applies to other bonuses, and fractions where multiple stats are affecting the same attribute, so changing the jump points.

dont mind me thats a lot of reading I skimmed through... but Ive noticed POW adds closer to 1 attack per Pow then the 2/3 stated several times... but even with that being said... Im still building a pure agi rogue, gonna see where it takes because I wanna see myself get 0.0 as my attack speed.

77 agi = attack speed 0.8 + bandit mask (-0.5) + upgraded wep (-0.1) + lvl 1 enhance (-0.2)= attack speed 0.0

and for me to get to 77 agi all I need to be is on roughly lvl 66

Bandit mask gives -0.05. attack speed is rounded up to the nearest 0.1. It's not 0.5 (a typo in the description), that'd be overpowered. meaning that half the time the bandit mask gives -0.1 and the other half the time it gives you absolutely nothing due to rounding. so don't buy a bandits mask when you've just passed the jump point, but buy it when you're within 7AGI of the next jump point for max effect(hence the bandit mask is only useful half the time, so a week one is sufficient, as you'll only use it half the time in a month).
Attack time rounded up also means that the best you can possibly get is 0.1.

[KazeOkami]

Sorry to throw you out of your day-dream but i'm same as you except i'm lvl 44. My pwr is even lower. And I keep on dying coz my hp is LOW! Thats y now i decided to add more to sta. In case you're wondering, i train on WHITE mobs! And almost all my equips are +1s. So give me a reason y i can't 'dodge' as well as you! And att speed doesn't relli matter if you're fighting with mobs you can kill in less than ten hits. And pwr +2 to attack unlike agi which +1attack for every two stats. Even thats not constant! AND in case you havent noticed, agi doesn't increase normal crit!! My character is a living testament!!!
AND pure agi neos' CANT solo!! Read the other forum entries on this.

ok im lvl 51 i hav
60+3 or so agi(dont remember lol)
8 pow
4 sta
n i do awsome in parties, i solo whie mobs,and sumtimes fight pink to reds for fun(but grind white ones)
neos are all tactics so u hav t o use stun poison n such to its max if u want to solo with all agi and enough pow for shield
once im lvl 60 ill b adding sum ment so yea^_^

[AtuinBlue]

its been said many times on this forum, the prefered build among serious rogues is pure AGI with just enough POW to get new shields.

i've been following the same build and i just seem to be cruising through levels on my way up to 40 no problem. i know it gets tougher after that, but im confident ill get all the way to rogue class no problem.

[Si3g3]

Hello everyone! I just started playing not too long ago. I enjoy playing Solstice. Well, here is my stats so far that I know. This is pretty much what I'm adding too..

POW + 2
AGI + 3
STA + 1

or

POW + 3
AGI + 2
STA + 1

...Um, should I add MEN to my stats as well or should I just leave it the way it is for now? Any opinions would help. Thank you!

[SeaWolf330]

ok im about to turn level 40 and I'm thinking about soloing most of it. Should I keep with pure agi? or put some stats into men and stam?

[peszek]

I think when u put points into men or sta u waste points.Better is pure Agi and Pow +1 when u need to wear new shield.

[SeaWolf330]

but i read an earlier post saying it is too difficult soloing level 40+ as pure agi

[Zeltar]

but i read an earlier post saying it is too difficult soloing level 40+ as pure agi

compared to what?
It's just plain dificult for Neo in early levels compared to the performance of other class. we're the late shiners.

[gameranch]

I've done pure agi. But I still got one more question if I reach level 66 and when I'm done with my job change do I still need to go pure agi though I'm done being a neo?

[Witlen]

well you have some options as you see when you get 66+ battling other rougues in pvp will be pretty messed up since there doge rate is as high as yours so adding to men for some more hit rate would be of much help esspecialy in the 100+ as assassin vs assassin will be very full of misses unless you add men for the hit rate so you can win + adding it some will help crit skill crit and mobbing as well dont add to much though just enough for the hit rate

[Tea_Fan]

I've done pure agi. But I still got one more question if I reach level 66 and when I'm done with my job change do I still need to go pure agi though I'm done being a neo?

You continue the same pure AGI (with enough POW to equip your shield) build as a rogue as you did when you were a Neo.

Yes, MEN will help hit others rogues in PVP, but I find it a waste of yummy attack points for the 99% of the time I'm not in PVP and actually out in the field training/attacking monsters.

Perhaps it'd be useful to add MEN much, MUCH later when I'm an Assassin, but for now, focus on the more immediate and short-term goal of reaching Rogue.

[marvinjabido]

as soon as i had .1 attack speed ill pure power..... strongest buld ever. u dont need to put that much agi, whats the purpose of other stats if your not gonna put something into it if its neessessary.. but yeah as soon as i get .1 attack speed ill pure power pump

[Zeltar]

as soon as i had .1 attack speed ill pure power..... strongest buld ever. u dont need to put that much agi, whats the purpose of other stats if your not gonna put something into it if its neessessary.. but yeah as soon as i get .1 attack speed ill pure power pump


firstly 0.1 attackspeedis currentlyimpossible. the game mechanics is designed to limit it to 0.2 however a animation bug limits it to 0.5
http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53319

secondly, even if that was possible i wouldent go POW. read my post a few pages back in this thread for explanation.

[kgin11]

im new to this soo yeah i would prob. go agi and dex but thats cuz. i play a lot of dif games
<p align="center" style="font-family: arial;"><a href="http://www.wizards.com/magic/playmagic/whatcolorareyou.asp" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isgreen.jpg" border="0"><br/><b>Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.</b></a></p>

[kgin11]

dam didn't work
......................

[Tea_Fan]

...Are you in the right place...? o_O There is no DEX stat in this game.

And it's illegal to post external links not associated with Outspark in the forums. That'll get you banned or something.

[ggBuRNe]

dexterity = mentality in this game.. both functioning the same.. Mybe he from other game such as RO..

[casthero]

when it comes to me its all pow and agi cuz i got 17pow and 21agi but im trying to get them even but from now on its gonna be all agi.

[opensunflowers]

You're actually stronger with full AGI than half agi/half power...

[reamon12]

reviving something dead m'kay