Enhancement helpers

[runkler]

ok i know that u can enhance things(every body knows) but i hers that there are some kind of scrolls that u can us to help it from not failing of breaking or down grade(ing). could any one tell me how $ they are and where to get these please i really need to know!

PLEASE and THANK YOU!

[nerdzo]

the cash shop. red eyes decrease ur breakage rate by 50%, perfect red eyes decrease ur breakage rate by 100%, blue miles decrease ur degrade rate by 50%, perfect blue miles decrease ur degrade rate by 100%. when gold slates come out they'll increase ur chances of succeeding by 15% if i rmb correctly.

[runkler]

the cash shop. red eyes decrease ur breakage rate by 50%, perfect red eyes decrease ur breakage rate by 100%, blue miles decrease ur degrade rate by 50%, perfect blue miles decrease ur degrade rate by 100%. when gold slates come out they'll increase ur chances of succeeding by 15% if i rmb correctly.
o well tyvm!

[KnightOfTruth]

That's a little troublesome to think that there'll be an item that will increase your chances to succeed... let me explain.

*BEGIN RANT*

If there's 8 boxes that you can choose to place your stone in (n,s,e,w,nw,se, ne,sw following compass directions) then you have a 1/8 chance of succeeding, except that the box you choose has a correlating box (direction) that also allows you to succeed (n/s, e/w, nw/se, ne/sw). So really you should ALWAYS have a 1/4 (25%) chance of succeeding no matter what IF it was completely random where the gold box stopped...

So, IF it is NOT completely random, and there is some sort of algorithm or formula that decreases/increases chances of success/failure then the enhancing system could be considered "RIGGED" and would thereby receive my eternal and utter criticism and disdain! If there is a formula, then it really doesn't matter what box you choose as it's not random anyway and the whole box/star thing is just for show!

I would like to hope that the dev's left it to proper odds (1/4) and that those (like me) who break items constantly are just "unlucky". But if there's an item that increases your chance of succeeding by 15% then there clearly can NOT be normal odds...

Okay, my ranting is nearly through...

The last point that had irked me some is that your results (either success or failure) is determined BEFORE the rotating box actually stops on whatever choice it does... which does lead me to think that it's not normal odds but a % chance... I know this for a fact because when you've failed/succeeded 1 less than an appropriate amount of times to earn a title, on the occassion that you do your next enhancing attempt it will tell you down bottom whether you have earned the title as soon as you click "enhance", long before the box stops spinning... I know because it happened to me with my "failure" titles (and NO there was no lag).

So yeah...all this talk about enhancing is making me depressed, and I'll be quite upset if (as it appears to be) that the odds are not what they appear to be, but rather a computer generated algorithm destined to produce increasingly horrible (and expensive) odds of success!

:( But I suppose then I'll have a reason to buy Gold Slates

*END RANT*

[JunieWenie]

Sorry about it. I am new to this. I am not sure how to get stones. Please tell me how. I know it is a stupid question.

[stephonspencer]

were can u buy these thing?

[KnightOfTruth]

Well, enhancing stones (i.e. elrues/lixs/xirs) can be created from the production skills "stone production" or purchased from other player's vendor shops or elrues can be purchased from NPC Item shops.

There are guides all over the forums and on the Wiki on how to do this (I apologize I don't have the link(s) currently).

The other items we're discussing (Red Eyes/Blue Miles) can be purchased with SparkCash at the Fiesta Shop (after using real $$ to purchase SparkCash). Hope that helps.

Would still LOVE to get some feedback on my above post/rant related to success% if anyone has insight into it!

[nescarecrow]

"If there's 8 boxes that you can choose to place your stone in (n,s,e,w,nw,se, ne,sw following compass directions) then you have a 1/8 chance of succeeding, except that the box you choose has a correlating box (direction) that also allows you to succeed (n/s, e/w, nw/se, ne/sw). So really you should ALWAYS have a 1/4 (25%) chance of succeeding no matter what IF it was completely random where the gold box stopped..."

I went to school for theory so I love these number crunching sessions. Ok to begin eight boxes represented by "*" and the item under trial being "+"

***
*+*
***

you begin by placing elrue "-" in any random square

-**
*+*
***

then to successfully enchant, the gold box "=" must fall in the opposite square

-**
*+*
**=

so given this scenario you have a 1/8 (%12.5) chance for the gold box to fall in the correct square because the gold box could fall in any of the eight squares even the square you placed the elrue in.

however i agree with you KnightOfTruth in the fact that I don't believe that's how it works. I believe that it is a "pass or fail" choice the program makes making it a 1/2 chance or %50. but then why have 8 squares? Is that just to fool us? Or is it really a %12.5 chance and getting the gold slate changes it from %12.5 to %14.375? (15 percent of 12.5 percent equates to a 1.875 percent increase) these gold slates make more sense with a 1/2 chance then you would have a %58 chance of succeeding instead of %50.

If any GM's are reading this maybe you could clear up the rumors on this issue, how is enchanting pass or fail calculated?

[wolfdance]

From my experience first 3 levels are fairly easy. next 3 harder. and last 3 very difficult. perfect red miles will stop breaking but do not increase success of enhancing nor stop degrade upon fail. perfect blue miles stop degrade but don't improve success or stop breaking. blessed stones improve success by 50%. lucky give chance of enhancing 2 levels on one spin. so even using blessed stones with perfect blue and red it can still take a long time and alot of spins.

[AnnisTheMad]

*BEGIN RANT* <upset unlucky enhancer rant removed> So really you should ALWAYS have a 1/4 (25%) chance of succeeding no matter what IF it was completely random where the gold box stopped. So, IF it is NOT completely random, and there is some sort of algorithm or formula that decreases/increases chances of success/failure then the enhancing system could be considered "RIGGED" and <upset item spoiler rant removed>
knightoftruth is correct about the title bit and - yes - the outcome of your enhancement is actually decided the moment you press begin. it is an exploit stopper. the title earning gives it away.

the chances of getting a successful enchant becomes less as your weapon becomes more overloaded with magic - think of it that way and it makes sense.

the only thing the "roulette wheel" has in your favour is that if you study the outcome and where the spinning star stops the final landing spot is consistent with the outcome. so if you watch where the spinning star starts slowing down you can go "OMG A BREAKER!!!" and cover your eyes so you don't have to watch those horrid blue clouds.

with enough blessed xir and perfect red/blue eyes, anyone can get "enhancement god" it is not a biggie anymore. it shows determination to be carrying a serious weapon with an "item spoiler" above you and wear your "item bankrupt" title with pride - it is the mark of honour for the strongest willed players in the game.

[ubp_mehi]

That's a little troublesome to think that there'll be an item that will increase your chances to succeed... let me explain.

*BEGIN RANT*

If there's 8 boxes that you can choose to place your stone in (n,s,e,w,nw,se, ne,sw following compass directions) then you have a 1/8 chance of succeeding, except that the box you choose has a correlating box (direction) that also allows you to succeed (n/s, e/w, nw/se, ne/sw). So really you should ALWAYS have a 1/4 (25%) chance of succeeding no matter what IF it was completely random where the gold box stopped...

So, IF it is NOT completely random, and there is some sort of algorithm or formula that decreases/increases chances of success/failure then the enhancing system could be considered "RIGGED" and would thereby receive my eternal and utter criticism and disdain! If there is a formula, then it really doesn't matter what box you choose as it's not random anyway and the whole box/star thing is just for show!

I would like to hope that the dev's left it to proper odds (1/4) and that those (like me) who break items constantly are just "unlucky". But if there's an item that increases your chance of succeeding by 15% then there clearly can NOT be normal odds...

Okay, my ranting is nearly through...

The last point that had irked me some is that your results (either success or failure) is determined BEFORE the rotating box actually stops on whatever choice it does... which does lead me to think that it's not normal odds but a % chance... I know this for a fact because when you've failed/succeeded 1 less than an appropriate amount of times to earn a title, on the occassion that you do your next enhancing attempt it will tell you down bottom whether you have earned the title as soon as you click "enhance", long before the box stops spinning... I know because it happened to me with my "failure" titles (and NO there was no lag).

So yeah...all this talk about enhancing is making me depressed, and I'll be quite upset if (as it appears to be) that the odds are not what they appear to be, but rather a computer generated algorithm destined to produce increasingly horrible (and expensive) odds of success!

:( But I suppose then I'll have a reason to buy Gold Slates

*END RANT*

Your math is off on this one. because by putting a stone into the circle it does not eliminate the chance of the box landing on that one. and there is only one box you could possibly land on for a successfull enhancement. So your odds are 1/8 or 12.5% of a succesfull enhancement. As for the random part. There is no way to design an algorithm to truly perdict a random outcome. I'm guessing that the algorithm used to perdict the outcome of an enhancement is really just perdicting a number between 1 and 8. each number corresponding to a box on the circle. There is no way to truly generate random numbers because you are using a structured equation and there are many factors that connot be put into the equation because of the limititations of a computer computing ability. And it doesn't really matter when the succesful box is chosen. In the end its as close to random the these guys can get.

[Jacquin]

Given that the chance of getting a successful enhancement drops as you go up in level (not as in "more times you do it, less chance", more of a "+8 to +9" has a less chance than "+1 to +2"), it's clear the system is not just picking a random spot. In fact, I honestly believe the boxes ARE just for show and that your chances are really just based on a random choice: you hit the button, the system decides whether you pass, fail, degrade, or break (if you watch, when your enhancement is going to break the item, the item dissapears right after you press the button), THEN it decides what box to drop it in.

That way, it's easy to control how the success rate goes. An example of a formula to do just that would go:

Enchant level = level of weapon
redbonus= effect of red eye, set to %
bluebonus= effect of blue mile, set to %
random = a random die
roll random from 1 to 10
If random <90%/[enchant level] THEN Success Otherwise Fail
If Success then set "spin highlight into box opposite player's stone"

IF Fail Then Roll random from 1 to 10
If random < 3 -redbonus *thus a perfect red would be 3 - 100%= 0* then remove item and set "spine highlight into box other than opposite player's"
else roll random from 1 to 10
If random < 3 -bluebonus then enhancement -1 and set "spine highlight into box other than opposite player's"
Else set "spine highlight into box other than opposite player's" and do nothing.

(meaning of above: it rolls a random number, and if it's below a certain key number, which is altered by your current enhancement, then it'll succeed or fail. if it fails, it does the same thing to determine breaking and degrading (with the cash shop items altering the key number used to decide whether ithappens or not). If it fails to succeed, break, or degrade, then it just sets it to fail without anything happening)


I believe something like that happens, making the boxes just something to keep us occupied (look at how emotional people get and how many superstitions people make). If the system really had some design, it would be ALOT more complicated, MUCH harder to make random, and MUCH easier to manipulate.

As for the 'random isn't really random': it's technically not random, but you'll need to know the formula they are using to make the numbers to even have a CHANCE of prediction. Otherwise, to YOU it's pure randomness.

[meralin]

ok so lets say + is the item and - is the stone and * is the other spaces left i usually am successful whenever i put the stone here *** but thats just me...
*+*
**-

[lRomeol]

12.5% to success and 87.5% to fail...
these are the odds to computer to chose whenever you fail or succee...

why do you belive that there is something else that effects the odds?
..

and i think those unfair odds made on purpess for the game so people would buy the stupid stones in the Cash shop...

but its my opinion...

[daddybadass]

I use my fighter to enhance i dunno if this is by chance or if this is correct but as far as i know clerics are cr** at enhancing and fighters are amazing like my fighter SatanSword has never broke a single item apart from a lvl4 helm (but who gives a sh**) and he has 4 glowing swords and 2 glowing shields

[daddybadass]

My cleric has broke over 20 hammers so i think clerics are cr** at enhancing

[KnightOfTruth]

Your math is off on this one. because by putting a stone into the circle it does not eliminate the chance of the box landing on that one. and there is only one box you could possibly land on for a successfull enhancement. So your odds are 1/8 or 12.5% of a succesfull enhancement. .

That is not true, there are TWO boxes that you can land on for successful enhancing: The box with your stone in it AND the box directly across from the one with your stone in it. **SEE EDIT NOTE BELOW** As long as the 3 star thing goes through your item, the box it lands on, and your stone it is a Success. So that's why I said there is a 1/4 chance of success.

1 2 3
4 x 5
6 7 8

If you put the stone on "1", the box can land on either 1 or 8 and you'll be successful (and vice versa). Likewise, you can put it on boxes 3 or 6, 2 or 7, and 4 or 5 for the same results. So there is no difference in whether you put it in box 5 or box 4 because BOTH will result in success if it lands on either of them. Thus my 1/4 (or if you prefer 2/8) chance of success.

Either way I don't see how those Gold Slates (or whatever) could increase the chance percentage unless (as mentioned all over here) the computation was actually in fact not based on a "random" (as assumed by statistics) chance, but rather a tiered rate of failure/success based on several variables (i.e. weapon tier, weapon + lvl, character class, character level, whether or not you had breakfast in the morning, you get the idea).

So yeah, that's my post-rant rant, either way, I don't think I'll EVER enhance another hammer for my cleric (at least one that I want to keep) without the prefect reds. Congratulations Outspark on ensuring a steady stream of $$ from us enhance-aholics. :)

**EDIT**: As I mention in a later post, there actually is only ONE box that leads to a successful enhance, please disregard my above posts that say otherwise (walks away sheepishly)

[AngelAsh]

Uh sorry but if the gold square lands in the one your elrue is in, it's a FAIL, not a success. I've enhanced many many times and can speak from experience. So it's definitely only a 1 in 8 chance.

Are you sure that blessed stones really improve your chance of success or do they just reduce the chance of breaking upon failure like red eyes do?

[darkhsew]

Lemme simplify this debate

1. You have a 1/8 chance of successful enhancement
2. Red Eye decreases chance of breakage
3. Blue Mile decreases change of downgrade
4. Gold slot AS OF NOW does not serve a purpose
5. Lucky Stones: successful enhancement has a slight possibility of double enhance
6. Blessed Stones: failure of enhancement means lower rate of item destruction and MAYBE downgrading
7. Elrue: lvl 1-3, Lix: lvl 4-6, Xir: lvl 7-9
8. stone tier should be the same as your weapon/armor level

[Zakinzoku]

1. The previous poster who argues how "rigged" it seems to have the enhancement outcome depend on an arbitrary percentage rather than the spinning boxes has missed a fundamental point. This is not an actual spinning box being thrown by a human hand. It is software. It does not matter if it's a roulette wheel, or dice, or pachinko balls. The outcome is ALWAYS determined by an arbitrary percentage, and the image on the screen is just window dressing. That is how computer software works.

2. It is *most* likely that the %15 bump that has been rumored above is NOT a 15% increase to the base probablility, but rather a flat increase of 15%. Given that the currently solid products can potentially reduce the breakage or downgrade possibility by 100%, it seems awfully stingy to suggest that you would pay for an improvement of as little as 1.875%. I'm glad you went to college to argue about things like this, but you didn't say what kind of grades you pulled. ;-)

3. Nobody has offered any evidence to back up their suggested success rates for enhancements, or the implication that improvements are on a sliding scale where higher bonuses have smaller success percentages than lower ones. With a little bit of objective testing (and a lot of stones) we could answer the question definitively, but for now we're all just talking out of our collective behinds. If anyone knows of a site where someone has crunched the numbers I'd love to see a link.

[Zakinzoku]

Oh, let me just one clarify my last point about the success percentage. Since ultimately these ARE arbitrary percentages, just because there are eight boxes it doesn't mean there is automatically a 12.5% chance. Theoretically, they could create a 99% chance of success, and still split the failures evenly between the other seven boxes.

[KnightOfTruth]

Indeed. Indeed. I agree with the above post. Despite the hi-jack and divert maneuver I pulled on this thread (not really THAT much of a hi-jack though), it seems that we're still where we all were back on page 1... speculating.

Point 1) recheck the fact that if it lands on your enhancement stone it fails, I do not recall that happening, but will retest tonight with noob weapons until I know for sure

Point 2) The lucky/blessed thing is also somewhat ambiguous, I thought for sure that I enhanced +2 WITHOUT a lucky, but I have been wrong... I think it was once :)

Point 3) My earlier rant (page1?) was related to the fact that the % of success that the revolving box indicates is a 12.5%, and for a GOLD SLATE (whatever) to increase by 15% the chance of success would totally undermine what it indicated. I completely understand how computer programming/software works and understand the fact that the yellow box is merely a pixelated image constructed to move in a specific pattern based on whatever algorithm of "random"-numbers and other variables/if-then-else statements/etc. the software calls for at that particular moment. YET, I was looking for some sort of definitive answer (if there is one) on how the rate of success would be calculated if it is indeed NOT a purely random statistical chance (i.e. 12.5%) which it appears it is not...

To clarify: The "box" indicates a 12.5%, despite it being for "show", this is the flat rate is SHOULD be if it was left to a purely random statistic. The other option is a(nother) computer generated percentage that is NOT 12.5, but let's say [.5% x +lvl of item x (1/2)tier level] yeah, you get the picture :)

although, I did use 10 perfect reds, and got +4 enhancements out of them, which would lead to a 4/10 or 40% enhancement success rate, but I didn't calculate all my previous failures (wasn't interested in how it worked), and haven't enhanced anything since then either.... NUMBERS TO BE CRUNCHED!

Point 4) My head hurts and I think I'm causing more confusion, so barring any further DEFINITIVE ANSWERS, I believe I shall make my OWN guide once I can get all the info...

Point 5) end another post/rant that really wasn't supposed to be this long

P.S. The posts from Jacquin and Darkshew were very well put, thanks for the input. As pure anecdotal evidence I would have to agree that getting it from say, +8 - +9 seems to be a much more daunting task than +1 - +2, more info to ponder/calculate.

P.P.S. How much of a heel am I going to feel like when I have to repost all my 25%'s to 12.5%'s after my testing tonight? That's a rhetorical question :)

**EDIT** I recently changed the #'s from 25% to 12.5% after discovering that the enhancement FAILS when landing on the box with your stone in it.

[Navon]

Well from my observation:

1) the outcome is indeed determined at the very moment you press the starting button. Roulette is just a show.
2) enhancement chances are not evenly distributed. You have to be very unlucky to fail that +1 enhancement, and you have to be lucky when enhancing above +3
3) here I'm not sure but it seems that the chances are better if your level (or enahncement experience) is higher than the level of the item.
4) also an unproven speculation but I got a feeling that if I enhance an item wearable by the class of the toon I use to enhance, the chances are better.
5) another unproven, I was more succesfull when I tried not to enhance the item in one session. When I failed my enhancement for the first time, I just stopped to enhance, went to do something else, and tried again later, and I think the chances were better.

NOTE: the "random numbers" generated by a computer are pseudo-random only, they are derived from the system time. It is anyway a question if the server does the calculation, or the client. Server being much more likely.

[halofox]

ok you obiously dont get the fact that it is turly a 1/8 chnace let me explain the boc you place your item in dose not leve your item up under any cercumstances ferther more there is as of yet no gold box item so keep waiting for its mestarous powers........

any ways there is but only one trick i have found to enhaceing every person has 1/8 box's that is well thiers you need to take trail and error to find wich one is your's. most of the time thats the box that will do the trick ( by that i mean that the box that will normarly succeed not allways but most of the time)...... so ya go find it poeple i think that bit was commen knowlage amonge my fellow enhacement gods anyways i hope that heled ya

[Karrotz]

1 thing I've noticed is that the item disappears from your inventory if it booms even before the wheel stops spinning.

And yes, I feel that there is 1 lucky box as well as my success % when I place my stone in that box has appeared to be higher so far.

[Firefox]

what lvl is a ggk 2h?

[tuhndrax]

can i get a succesful enchancement withouth using the miles and eyes???????

[KnightOfTruth]

can i get a succesful enchancement withouth using the miles and eyes???????

Absolutely. It's just that without the perfect red eyes your item may break and be destroyed forever. Not that bad a thing when you're using lvl15 items that you can get fairly easily from KingSlime KQ, but when you're dishing out a minimum of 5s (lvl 20 items) and more per weapon (not to mention long hours of license building) it's a horrid thing to watch your weapon go up in smoke :)

[KnightOfTruth]

BTW: After many hours of enhancing I FINALLY landed on the box with my stone in it. So, (as I mentioned before) I just wanted to let everyone know that, I was wrong, and others (DarkShew,HaloFox, etc.) who have posted on here were right! There is only a 1/8 chance (as opposed to 2/8) of successful enhancements (that is assuming completely statistical randomization - which we have nearly agreed it is NOT). Either way, my argument (now amended) still stands.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies about enhancing. Hopefully this thread (although very long) will prove helpful to someone else, and maybe someday we'll have a definitive answer as to what truly affects enhancing success/failure rates!

Until then we stick to our infinite superstitions and anecdotes.

[slavik928]

i dont wanna buy those red eyes or perfect red eyes or blue miles or perfect blue miles. so wat i tryin to say is there a partern to upgrading

[brokenvector]

Perhaps I post i the wrong thread, but I think it relevant...
My question is...I have the production skill to produce elrue, a normal elrue, but how I can make the lucky, blessed an the other elrue???

Thx B4

[Wakarimasen]

i dont wanna buy those red eyes or perfect red eyes or blue miles or perfect blue miles. so wat i tryin to say is there a partern to upgrading

As far as I know there has not been any rigorous testing of this. From personal experience and reading a lot of people's anecdotes, there does not appear to be any special pattern or any way to influence the outcome. You can only help yourself by using blessed or lucky stones, as described above, or with cash shop items.



Perhaps I post i the wrong thread, but I think it relevant...
My question is...I have the production skill to produce elrue, a normal elrue, but how I can make the lucky, blessed an the other elrue???

Thx B4

You're not missing anything, there is no way to make the lucky or blessed stones. Most of them come from King's Quest rewards. If you're very lucky you might find a treasure chest. If you're extremely lucky you might get one from mining. I don't know for sure but I won't be surprised if monsters sometimes drop them.



I have a story I'd like to share with everyone that might shed some light on all of this. If you've read Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield, you've read this. Paraphrasing: There once was a goose who got it into it's head that if it pecked in a certain spot before going into the water, things would turn out a lot better. So, every day at the same time the goose would go to the same spot, peck three times, and then go about it's merry way. If someone tried to stop the goose it would become extremely agitated, biting and beating its wings at the unfortunate fellow. When he finally gave way, the goose pecked three times and, satisfied, got on with it's day.

I think this is a very nice illustration of the power of superstition, and if you think about it, how anyone can get the idea that pecking three times (so to speak) make things alright. In case you don't want to think about it, I thought a bit for you. :D Say you've enhanced a lot of items and by pure luck a certain pattern seems to work better than others. Anyone who's paying attention will think: Hey! I've been paying attention and this works better! That doesn't mean that it actually does work better. Even 100 tries is a fairly small sample.



Want a sports metaphor instead? Ever notice how the last place team sometimes beat your favorite team, even if your team is way better? Even if the odds are horribly unballanced, say 70/30, a crazy amount for professional sports, the worse team will still beat your team back-to-back about 10% of the time (3/10*3/10 = 9/100 = 9%) If you only watched a few games it might seem like the worse team is way better, even though it's just dumb luck!


In conclusion to an overly long post (sorry): doesn't this remind anyone of ... a slot machine? Suspense, spinny, bleepidy bleep noises, stars and happy noises, and glowy stuff when you win? There's a reason the casinos use the colors, shapes, and most importantly noises even tho they could just give you a scratch-off ticket. The payoff is reinforced by all of that, helping to make gambling more addictive than it already is.

If you're enhancing items, you're gambling. The mechanism is the same. It's easy to get sucked in because you get used to winning at the lower levels. And the goal is the same: to get you to spend money. In this case on cash shop items.


If you've read this far, you're my hero.

[Cha0sTribe]

This is not fair...we actually have to use real $$$ to purchase (Red Eyes/Blue Miles) just to increase its success of enchancement...Why dont they just put those at the game itself?(Like NPC shop or as dropped/ quest items). What about the other players who doesn't want to spend $$$ entirely? (>> I work for living<<)

Akamori-lvl 37 figher (Bijou)..."Live Free or Work Hard"

[rafale]

This is not fair...we actually have to use real $$$ to purchase (Red Eyes/Blue Miles) just to increase its success of enchancement...Why dont they just put those at the game itself?(Like NPC shop or as dropped/ quest items). What about the other players who doesn't want to spend $$$ entirely? (>> I work for living<<)

Akamori-lvl 37 figher (Bijou)..."Live Free or Work Hard"

The GMs and Outspark team aren't volunteering you know. Fiesta doesn't exist on a government grant. And if it does, you'd be complaining instead about your tax percentages.

[Cha0sTribe]

lol... i dont mind if you pay $$$ to cutomize our char appearances (eg. clothes, face, movers)..in fact i am totally agree that we do need Fiesta shop or beauty shop in order to keep this game moving on...
My only concern here is these items (Red Eyes/Blue Miles/ Gold Nine) shouldn't be put as Fiesta Shop items...coz they affect to "ALL PLAYER" enchantment items.

BTW thanks for your opinion...^^

[enumasam]

I do noticed a certain pattern when I enhance my weapons. It is best to do it all in one session. I was able to get a weapon from +0 to +7 without failing once. Sometimes if you notice the next place the star lands is the direct opposite of the one it was in before. Then it will shift slightly but the pattern remains the same. Once it does a full circle then it will change patterns again. Sometimes it will be random for a few then it will revert back to a pattern. There is a time when it lands in the same spot three times in a row...if you see that it has landed in the same spot twice in a row...it's a high possibility that it will land there again.I do notice that changing stones can sometimes interrupt the pattern for example using blessed after using lucky and vise versa.

[Shadaki]

Frustration is high right now, because I can't find a post I'd read before. It said the minigame format for enhancing was just to make it more exciting, and the blocks didn't matter. It said the outcome was calculated as soon as you hit refine. If that is true, maybe the 12.5% chance to pick the "right" block is a false variable form the start.

[Knifey]

There is no pattern, its just a peice of code that says $rand(1,8) <-- random number between 1 and 8.

Frustration is high right now, because I can't find a post I'd read before. It said the minigame format for enhancing was just to make it more exciting, and the blocks didn't matter. It said the outcome was calculated as soon as you hit refine. If that is true, maybe the 12.5% chance to pick the "right" block is a false variable form the start.

yes i said that. and you're right i'm sure its a false variable, the GUI (graphical user interface) does not reflect what is actually happening. I thought this was that thread... ah i have nfi anymore. I just click and rant.

Perhaps I post i the wrong thread, but I think it relevant...
My question is...I have the production skill to produce elrue, a normal elrue, but how I can make the lucky, blessed an the other elrue???

Thx B4

you cant make them

[enumasam]

Frustration is high right now, because I can't find a post I'd read before. It said the minigame format for enhancing was just to make it more exciting, and the blocks didn't matter. It said the outcome was calculated as soon as you hit refine. If that is true, maybe the 12.5% chance to pick the "right" block is a false variable form the start.

Well it is determined right when you hit refine. When your item is +8 and you make it a +9 you get the "enhancement god" title right after you hit refine long before it lands in the right spot. So yeah it is predetermined.

[Daevor]

Mmm. Well, I just attempted to take a lvl20 mace (using my lvl38 cleric) from +5 to +9. In 31 (yes, THIRTY-ONE), attempts, I had 3 successes. My last 14 attempts were all failures (that's right: FOURTEEN consecutive failures). On my last attempt, I had no more perfect red eyes, and 1 perfect blue mile (which I used), and yes, the weapon broke :eek: (48 seconds of non-stop cursing). So 1/8 chance of success? Absolutely not. My run of consecutive failures for enhancing in the +7 to +9 region is:
11 (happened twice)
12 (happened once)
14 (my new record I just made).

I seriously doubt I'll ever waste REAL money on perfects again.

[Shadaki]

OH WOW..thanx for sharing your story, but please keep your luck to yourself. =p

-OmniNub

[22sleepyhead]

u make them -.- it's easy some time u might see me on my char names is Hirosama and Himi XD

[1337hellfire]

U ALL ARE MATH NERDS -.- so much math...

[Arion-Wings]

Last night, I went to a Chinese forum and found some interesting things. A person (don't know his name cause he didn't posed it) said there are different success rates for different levels of weapons.
Quote:
level one
+1 80%
+2 70%
+3 60%
+4 50%
+5 40%
+6 30%
+7 20%
+8 10%
+9 5%

level two
+1 50%
+2 45%
+3 40%
+4 30%
+5 20%
+6 10%
+7 5%
+8 2%
+9 1%


I don't know if all the numbers are correct. But they looks pretty logical for me. First, we know that the circle of box is just for show, so the success rate cannot be 1/8. Secondly, we know that the higer the + number the lower the successful rate. So if we gather all the information together and build a data base, it will probably generate the same data patern.

T.T If the successful rate is really like that I will never enchance my weapon again.

[Oshe_Rono]

I have noticed that the success rates get worse and worse as you get higher. A ploy to buy the store items I'm sure. But also to prevent the proliferation of enhanced weapons. That is why greens are more common... you dont want to enhance you get the stats bonuses, which are not bad at all.

[kiwioyster]

rumors that all 8 boxes hav different chance of success, fail, -1 and distroying the weapon.
experiment with all eight boxes and try and find the most lucky 1

and yes, as the items lvl go up, it gets harder 2 enchante.

[rtan9838]

i haven't read the entire thread, too many essay posts :P

but I how I see it is that SOME of the 8 boxes have a higher chance than the others, so you have a 1/8 chance of selecting a success box, but you have to also consider that sometimes half of the boxes are success boxes, so really, you have 1/8 to choose from, but the odds might actually be 1/2.

and as the amount of enhancements increase, the amount of successful boxes are lower, similarly, each box has a rate of success, so maybe box 1 has a 10% chance, box 2 has a 20% chance of success.

this may be totally wrong, but it is just another perspective on enhancing that's been floating around...

Edit: to give a bit of insight, it took me around 15 red eyes and around 12-13 blues to get my lvl 30 axe to +8. it took one to get to +8 from +7, but to get from +6 to +7 i think it took me 3-4 tries. If you want to compare cash shop items and prices for upgrading, that's around $10USD for a +8 or +9 item (depending on your luck of enchanting), which isn't TOO bad really, and +9 t2 enchanting services cost around 1g so that's like buying 1g for $10.

I used to play flyff and the chance of upgrading is so bad that the amount of spros and gpros that you had to buy was just astronimous trying to get your gear to max upgrade. so really, fiesta's enchantment cash shop items aren't too bad really, and the chances of success is much better than many other games I've played.

[terorrr]

i haven't read the entire thread, too many essay posts :P

but I how I see it is that SOME of the 8 boxes have a higher chance than the others, so you have a 1/8 chance of selecting a success box, but you have to also consider that sometimes half of the boxes are success boxes, so really, you have 1/8 to choose from, but the odds might actually be 1/2.

and as the amount of enhancements increase, the amount of successful boxes are lower, similarly, each box has a rate of success, so maybe box 1 has a 10% chance, box 2 has a 20% chance of success.

this may be totally wrong, but it is just another perspective on enhancing that's been floating around...

Edit: to give a bit of insight, it took me around 15 red eyes and around 12-13 blues to get my lvl 30 axe to +8. it took one to get to +8 from +7, but to get from +6 to +7 i think it took me 3-4 tries. If you want to compare cash shop items and prices for upgrading, that's around $10USD for a +8 or +9 item (depending on your luck of enchanting), which isn't TOO bad really, and +9 t2 enchanting services cost around 1g so that's like buying 1g for $10.

I used to play flyff and the chance of upgrading is so bad that the amount of spros and gpros that you had to buy was just astronimous trying to get your gear to max upgrade. so really, fiesta's enchantment cash shop items aren't too bad really, and the chances of success is much better than many other games I've played.
I guess you're right about the boxes. I seem to have a special box which i use to enhance. However, could everyone share their tricks and tips for enhancing? Thisngs like which slot to place your stones works best? I think that would be much more constructive and may even enable us to figure out a stable pattern and to prove all the current theories(including yours) wrong ;)

[tukinnam]

Last night, I went to a Chinese forum and found some interesting things. A person (don't know his name cause he didn't posed it) said there are different success rates for different levels of weapons.
Quote:
level one
+1 80%
+2 70%
+3 60%
+4 50%
+5 40%
+6 30%
+7 20%
+8 10%
+9 5%

level two
+1 50%
+2 45%
+3 40%
+4 30%
+5 20%
+6 10%
+7 5%
+8 2%
+9 1%


T.T If the successful rate is really like that I will never enchance my weapon again.

I like this one. Tho the success rate are real low for a +9, consider the difference a +9 and a +1 gains.

For example, a T1 L20 sword; +1 = 1+bonus dmg; +9 = 94+bonus dmg.

With that being said, you dont really need +N items to enjoy the game. Just like you dont really need that BMW to drive around (hey! a car analogy).
Skill > $$

[Ralyth]

although there are stones if you people actually check the updates on the forums(http://outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?p=607394#post607394) this is suppose to be list of new items in fiesta as Gold mile hasnt been add yet and i seen somewhere else that is going to be about 15% increase with this item see people do know what there talking about so those who ranted on the first page arnt completely wrong but in a sense they are >.>

[Kylock]

Mmm. Well, I just attempted to take a lvl20 mace (using my lvl38 cleric) from +5 to +9. In 31 (yes, THIRTY-ONE), attempts, I had 3 successes. My last 14 attempts were all failures (that's right: FOURTEEN consecutive failures). On my last attempt, I had no more perfect red eyes, and 1 perfect blue mile (which I used), and yes, the weapon broke :eek: (48 seconds of non-stop cursing). So 1/8 chance of success? Absolutely not. My run of consecutive failures for enhancing in the +7 to +9 region is:
11 (happened twice)
12 (happened once)
14 (my new record I just made).

I seriously doubt I'll ever waste REAL money on perfects again.

I had a similar experience yesterday. A little background, I've had a fair amount of success refining equips to +7 without any breakages and 1 fail in total (weapons from all 4 classes as well as armour). A guildmate asked me to refine his sword which I did for him, to have it fail on first attempt on Sunday. A while (as in at least an hour later) I refined my Wind Geste Staff +3 to +4 which resulted in a fail and breakage on the first attempt, fortunately I had a spare in storage which I had not yet refined so after a few minutes of swearing and cursing I retrieved it, ran a few runs on some lvl 15 to lvl20 weapons and had no fails or breaks.... I then did a run on the base green geste staff and had 2 fails and 2 downgrades after getting to +3.

I quit.

Yesterday, the same guildmate gave me a new L30 sword that he wanted to +9 and I had bought some slates from the cash store because of the previous experience.

Well I went through 25 reds and 24 blues before I got it to +7. with an immediate fail at base to +1 and an average of 3 fails to every successful run. I did not even bother doing his shield as I am of the opinion that the algorythm must have been modded as indicated by the sharp difference when using the damn refine yesterday. Never have the ratio's been so blatantly skewed in favour of failure as it has when I was using the cashstore slates.

Possibly it could be a cyclic phenomenon set to reset on Mondays (our time, GMT+2) as I've done succesful runs to +7 Wednesday to Sunday without slates and 1 fail....

Anyone have similar experiences to ours?

[killer_pagan]

i got my lvl 30 to +9 with 20reds & 19 blues

[marfish]

I too have experienced a sharp downward rate of success when using the "proof stones" as I call them. I was very discouraged at first and am only annoyed now since I am assured of keeping my prized item. Also, I don't use the blues for the elrue stage. Also, I don't bother enhancing anything that does not have at least as many usable stat points as the lvl of item itself to more than +5 or 6. Clerics who mostly party don't need +9 hammers,, but do need the highest they can get on their shields.
Mar

[xlonethreat]

umm... Wow , that was a great debate. lol i read everything...
I never would have thought about all those things when i enhanced, but yes, i did notice that the item dissapeared before it finished rotating. I dont bother to go into all these formulas and such, i just see it as you succeed or fail.
The debate was very interesting to read! thanks for helping me out

[VisionXXX]

ok i know that u can enhance things(every body knows) but i hers that there are some kind of scrolls that u can us to help it from not failing of breaking or down grade(ing). could any one tell me how $ they are and where to get these please i really need to know!

PLEASE and THANK YOU!

Yea I no what ur talking about. It is a iteam from the Fiesta Store,
It is called Red. Blue, and another color eye. U need spark cash. And there is Tier 1,2 and 3. Make sure you no what lvl ur iteam is other wise you will buy the wrong Red, Blue or whateva Tier.

Hope I helped:D

[mad_catz64]

I noticed something particular and useless: The Item breaks before the roulette stops.

So you can start crying right away... just after u start enhancing.... U.U

[ev1c1r4t0r]

That's a little troublesome to think that there'll be an item that will increase your chances to succeed... let me explain.

*BEGIN RANT*

If there's 8 boxes that you can choose to place your stone in (n,s,e,w,nw,se, ne,sw following compass directions) then you have a 1/8 chance of succeeding, except that the box you choose has a correlating box (direction) that also allows you to succeed (n/s, e/w, nw/se, ne/sw). So really you should ALWAYS have a 1/4 (25%) chance of succeeding no matter what IF it was completely random where the gold box stopped...

So, IF it is NOT completely random, and there is some sort of algorithm or formula that decreases/increases chances of success/failure then the enhancing system could be considered "RIGGED" and would thereby receive my eternal and utter criticism and disdain! If there is a formula, then it really doesn't matter what box you choose as it's not random anyway and the whole box/star thing is just for show!

I would like to hope that the dev's left it to proper odds (1/4) and that those (like me) who break items constantly are just "unlucky". But if there's an item that increases your chance of succeeding by 15% then there clearly can NOT be normal odds...

Okay, my ranting is nearly through...

The last point that had irked me some is that your results (either success or failure) is determined BEFORE the rotating box actually stops on whatever choice it does... which does lead me to think that it's not normal odds but a % chance... I know this for a fact because when you've failed/succeeded 1 less than an appropriate amount of times to earn a title, on the occassion that you do your next enhancing attempt it will tell you down bottom whether you have earned the title as soon as you click "enhance", long before the box stops spinning... I know because it happened to me with my "failure" titles (and NO there was no lag).

So yeah...all this talk about enhancing is making me depressed, and I'll be quite upset if (as it appears to be) that the odds are not what they appear to be, but rather a computer generated algorithm destined to produce increasingly horrible (and expensive) odds of success!

:( But I suppose then I'll have a reason to buy Gold Slates

*END RANT*

Round up every mathmatician you can find AND LETS CRACK THIS FURMULA lol lets make such a thing as "stone counting" :D

[spiznak]

The formula is a simple piecewise computation based on an evenly sided polygon. let me explain it...

Tier 1 stones start with a 1 in 10 chance (different from what you all thought, right?). Say its broken down like this:
1 = enhance!
2-5 = no enhance...
6-8 = degrade...
9-10 = broken...
that's only the pattern for +1 tier 1.
it increases to a polygon of 12 sides for +2 t1.
this is a simple version of what's truly happening, but if you follow the pattern, you see that it gets harder and harder to succeed at enhancing as you go up in the tier and in the + you want to reach. Each enhancement only has a 1/n chance of succeeding, where n = (tier * 10) + (2 * enhancement) or some variant of that.
so, using this simplistic explanation, let's look at the probability of enhancing a t3 item from +7 to +9: n = (3 * 10) + (2 * 7) for the first attempt, which gives you n = 44, so you have a 1 in 44 chance to get a +8 on that tier 3 item. now we complete for the next enhancement: n = (3 * 10) + (2 * 8) which comes to n = 46, so altogether you have a 1/44 * 1/46 chance to get your +9 from +7. it comes to a 1 in 2024 chance you will get it on the first try, assuming you don't bust or degrade it first.

there is one more modifier, however, that should cause alarm (that I've noticed in my enhancements, which are many). You have a higher chance to upgrade when you are trying to upgrade an item for your particular class within 10 levels of your current. That is, if you are a lvl 35 mage, you should only attempt to upgrade lvl 25-45 mage items, for optimal performance.

as for "stone counting", it's not going to do any good. if the formula were to be released, I'm sure it would only cause a lot of people a lot of heartache to hear how near impossible it is to enhance without spending gobs of cash on their enhancement toys from the fiesta shop.

hope this gives some of you hope that it is more in the luck of the draw than anything else (unless you are using enhancement stones). Try not to be too discouraged, lol.

[shawnpm810]

I tested out your formula on basic t1 items here not to long ago. I can get +8 lvl 15 weapons without an issue 42% of the time. I failed and break pleanty....but noob harvesting is easy. creation of elrue lix and xir t1 = sinch. Making +9 lvl 15 and lvl 20 weapons and armors can be a test of true paitence. :P not really gonna sell for anything. But if your like me, having +9 lvl 20 gear all around and using it as a farmer in the abyss = ownage ;-) try it out if you dont believe me....wait for this bugged up patch to be resolved...abyss is buggier then HELL!

[Bonthra]

Double necro ftl. ._.

[papadoc1]

I would just like to say this. (im going off of a hunch/good basic knowledge, dont get upset if these statements are wrong)

IF the odds are random then there still is a formula that has to be used to find the outcome of it you cant just code something and say its random it has to use a formula to find your outcome no matter how you look at it. Second IF it is "random" what formula would you use to make it random? so therefore i say this. If you code a game to have a supposed "random" outcome you STILL need a formula so really no matter how you look at it it is rigged cause no formula is random. Therefore it goes through the pre-written formula to find your outcome the second you click the button

ITS NOT RANDOM YET AGAIN ITS A FORMULA

And upb_mehi i just read your post sorry for posting the same basic idea/principal

[Celtic_Princess]

[Closed]

Please be sure to check the last post date on a thread before you submit to it, if its been more than 3 weeks, please do not necro the thread..but let it rest in peace.