Kiting, why it's useless

[Rasimer]

Kiting, or to describe it for those who don't know, is when an archer runs out to a group of monsters and grabs their attention. just to run back and dump the monster's aggro (aggression and attacks) on the tanking cleric or fighter. seems like a good idea in kingdom quests, and it is. but let's get real.

Any class can Kite. for crying out loud, a mage can do the same thing. in fact, with a bit of good timing and distance judgement, i qaurentee a lv.1 fighter could do the same thing in in a level 60 zone. all it really is is just grabbing attention then getting out of the way before the enemeis expose the archers paper thin defense. But for the sake of giving the archer something to live for, we'll say that this is a good way for archers to contribute in kingdom quests.

But what about kiting solo? bad idea. you'll either have to simply out run the group of monsters, or (and this is most likely to happen) you run away only to discover than a monster you killed minutes ago has respawned at this opportune moment to yet again expose the archers paper thin defense.

What!?!?! so why is kiting in any way useful. well, in the japanes version, for which kiting was the basis for, archers have several buffs that help out their evasoin and travel speed.
But this is not the japanese version. this is hardcore american version, and we have no such buffs. so... in an overall view, archers are underpowered. i really think that we should start to request a way to even archers out. i know some high level noob that has a +9 bow is going to come on here and trash talk about how i don't know what i'm talking about and how the archer is already even with other classes. but the archer by far is underpowered. it has super low atk. it has paper thin def. it's main attribute evasion though it is higher than rest of class, they'll still take more damage than any other class because evasion is merely a game of chance. and going all evasion will only do as well as a natures agility scroll. the only thing archers have is a slightly better chance for critical hits. but critical hits are also a game of chance. please help game editors fix archers. they suck, no one really doubts it any more.

wow was i wrong. no noob with a plus 9 bow came in. it was some noob who thinks poison makes a diffrence. well, they sort of do. but posions and bone shatter shots fail almost 70% of the time, so i lay no money on having the slightest bit of help from these supposed "dots", or for new comers, "damage over time" moves.

[Zylokio]

archers do suck, in low levels, but in later levels they can outdamage any class easily

[TheRealVanquish]

I play an Archer on one of the servers and have no problem. Kiting don't see no problem with it, It is just another strategy.

[J3ff4ya]

That's because you didn't have to go through 1 ~ 150 Vanq. They are so slow at lower levels.

[Archaonn]

Ya without a speed buff Kiting may suck BUT Archers can hit from 15 Meters so that gives you enough to use dots on it and kite effectively you can kill most yellow or under mobs with Kiting.

[sseldnim]

kiting is useful for archerws ONLY, as only we have dot. that is the point of kiting, to use dot

[lightningmystix]

NO WAIIIIIIIII~!

Kiting is awesome. Even without the speed buff ;D

Let's take a look at stun. Whoo~! Fighters can stun anything a semi-circle in front of them and not take any damage at all! =D So awesome, no? But does stun hurt? Does stun leech away the monster's HP a little bit at a time, with bleeding and poisoning? Does stun do damage? NO.
Now let's look at our cute little poison and bleed skills. Currently, at lvl 29, I only have 2 poison skills. However, if both my poisons hit I noticed that the monster gets killed much faster, even if I don't kite. However, if both my poisons hit and I start to run, what happens? I'm not dragging a train, because I'm maintaining aggro with my poisons. I'm constantly hurting the enemy because of the poisons. And I'm not even getting hurt because I'm kiting!

As sseldnim said, the point of kiting is for DoT. To hurt the enemy without getting hurt ourselves.

Kiting, pointless? NO. A big NO from me. Kiting is beautiful as soon as you get the poisons. Maybe in later levels AoEing is the way to go, killing 1v1 is going to take forever, but at my level it's pretty much a standard for me when I'm soloing.

[Onikasu]

The only thing that needs fixing is how archer and mages have the same range, with and without skills. A clerics Revive has more range than Aimed shot. Fix it so that the arhcer can have like 18 Meters of range W/O skils and all will be well.

[slashtrak]

Maybe it's just me, but whenever I kite stuff on my archer, their regen counteracts the damage my DoTs do.

Really sucks. I'm just before new levels of DoTs, so that could be it, I guess...

[Shounen]

kiting does seem abit useless in a way. The monsters will eventually reach you (unless they are like spiders) and sometimes dots just don't work. If i was an archer, i would just spam skills and kill it as quick as possible rather then spending time kiting. A few hp stones can't hurt that much, can in? Well, i play a fighter so my ways are abit different so don't take me too seriously.

[Lythari]

Sadly, archers don't have too many good skills to spam...

[blazedaces]

Ok the concept is this... 3 DoT's (poison, bleed, venom) doing 30+ dmg each for 12-20 seconds... per second!

So for every second you run away you do 100 damage about to it... and if it makes the difference between using a stone why not do it?

Its all about how you like to solo but seriously all I'm saying is there's an obvious purpose to it. As for how many skills we have... its true we have few and after finding out that Japaneses/Korean/whatever version has 10 more skills ... yes we need more but I actually don't think we're as underpowered as others sometimes claim...

We do fine damage and can survive better then mages. In pvp I do just fine against just about any class 1v1 and am great in team battle... unless I'm being surrounded people don't choose to attack me because I survive pretty well and would rather attack the weaker... mage in the team.

What does that mean... its really not as unbalanced as every single character thinks they are...

-blazed

[fantamorango]

im an archer and im doing just fine with my xbow with 9% critical , and almost always my poison doest fail ,there is already the speedy scroll!
and we can atack from far we dont have to be that close to pull the monster!
:)

[sseldnim]

lol, kiting owns!!!! (at times)

[-Drago-]

I totally disagree to Rasimer. Kiting is better done with DDs. Why? Well, let's see.

A lvl 1 fighter can lure mobs out of clusters ... no. He dies at the attempt and the chance that he lures by far more then only the 1 mob he wanted to lure is extremely high. Even with snear kick a "only that mob" lure (yes it's no kiting yet btw) often fails since some mobs have a higher detection range then the 7m of snear kick. (I try to imagine a fighter who wants to lure Mara or Marlone at the KQ. Oh yes! I saw one! It failed cause of him!!! XD )

Ok next point. Teamplay kiting: It is possible and it gives a huge damage output at the start of every fight (if done correctly). If the tank sucks at taking aggro then it surely is nonsense (but I wouldn't lay my life in the hands of a fighter who doesn't know how to fight ... or do you?). You can party fight in a certain pattern: The DDs lure 1 or, if it's a cluster, several mobs with their wide range attacks, dealing damage to the enemies who can't yet fight back cause the attacks of mages and archers are ranged. Ok, that should be clear to you by now (I had my doubts after reading Rasimer's statement). Then after the mobs are just passing the fighter he can mock em and get the whole attention. Thats how you use the high defense and HP of a fighter ... outherwise it wouldn't be a fighter and you could have chosen a cleric or another class instead. And before anyone wants to tell me that not all fighters are tanks, well, they are by far better at it then archers and mages. :p And only extraordinary experience (such as Kholai's for example) can outmatch the fighter skills (at tanking and holding aggro etc.).

If you want to make me know that all that above is new to you, then you seriously haven't fought in any working team (with fighter) before. Such a pity ...

Kiting at soloing and DoTs: Useless? No way! Archers are (already mentioned) a DD class and since their main damage is dealt over time (you know what DoT means?) they can take out mobs and clusters easily with their poisen attacks. Just enter the fights with those skills, run into a direction you know that it is safe (!) and watch the mobs health going down in no time. Also while you run, the enemies can't attack and your specials cool down (after they did, you can spam your skills again and run further). I and a lot of other experienced archers never had problems with such a strategy, but you have to make one. Just standing there shooting around and getting hit isn't the purpose of an archer (it's the fighters way of fighting).

Ah, btw, it's said that only noobs call others noobs. Rasimer proved once again, that this theory is right! Just calling others noob at random ... sry but it looks like some ***** (Vanquish is watching :P ) doesn't even know what that word means ... embarrassing! :D


If anyone finds a spelling mistake, you can keep it! ;)

[slashtrak]

The only issue with kiting is that when you stop to skillspam you're gonna get whacked, you just gotta hope you don't get hit in that one attack round you're gonna have to survive.

Also, like I said, I was seeing monster regen completely counteracting a full DoT period, which is the main reason I've given up on my archer and decided to go back to a mage.

[-Drago-]

The only issue with kiting is that when you stop to skillspam you're gonna get whacked, you just gotta hope you don't get hit in that one attack round you're gonna have to survive.

Also, like I said, I was seeing monster regen completely counteracting a full DoT period, which is the main reason I've given up on my archer and decided to go back to a mage.

Ah, didnt mean you, only the OP since he posted a lot of nonsense. :D Sry if you felt offended.

1) Thats why you run. :p they are as fast as you, but since you both run they can maximum hit you once and then the gap between you and the mob increases! ;)

2) True that, if you don't hit the mob before he starts to regen it can outtake the advantage. If you use the kiting strategy often, then you get the hang for it when to hit him again. ;)

PS: If your archer is still under 20 then do at least the class-level-up. They start to get stronger at level 20+. :D

[slashtrak]

Yeah, I did the classchange, it just became paper like mages do, so I figured if I'm gonna be paper I might as well be a mage which I enjoyed more. It really bothers me that I can't go and kite more than five lizardmen without having to use a pot. I don't like kiting stuff if it's not as effective as I want it to be. (You never have to use skills is the main thing I wish would work)

Oh and no worries, I've been on the internet far too long to get angry at anything said to me.

edit: Worth noting, I've stopped playing entirely until they fix the defense/offense bugs. After that, I'm going to give Archer ONE LAST shot, and decide.

[Shounen]

I still think kiting is not so useful... it just doesn't sound right...to run and stop to poison...I've always thought that archers can kill things before they reach them, can't you just keep attacking them and kill them? If i was an archer, i'd just spam all my skills with poison first. Kiting is good, but i'm the guy who likes killing fast!

[MissusDolly]

Kiting works wonders, yes you will get hit unless your in a secure area that you know, but it works. I posion and bleed at the same time run for a few seconds turn around and kill, get hit a few times, but not enough to have to use a pot. It works perfect, you just have to be careful. Perfect for parties too :) You run hit them once a a posion or bleed and run back and fighter takes the attention.
-Dolly

[BlackDragonEX]

You know I am really tired of people saying things like 'Archers are worthless' or 'they have no good skills'
When in reality a good Kiter is awsome. What an archer is supposed to do si learn the regen rate for each monster (or atleast the one he is fighting) and then poison/bleed/etc then run until it is a few seconds before the regen, then hit it with other skills, this leaves the mob with only a quarter hp or less iot is then easy to kill.
Also archers def is not paper thin. Mages def is paper thin

[HateUchiha]

most of the ppl are saying that archers arent that bad and de-buff makes up for not being fast and stuff.....LIES! ima lv 52 archer and i will tell u now, IT SUCKS. without the aoe posion i just got i probaly would have quit to be a mage. arches compared to mages are like comparing ps2 and ps3. mages are better then archer with the fact that do more dmg and have the same range.

archers are supposed to attack faster then any other class....THERE ARCHERS! this guy with a damn sword and shield is attacking at the same rate? not cool. and were the same speed of any other class which is why i agree, kitting is pretty stupid for solo. shoot and run and keep doing it? *** a Ancient Stonie runs faster then me! wats the point? and cool time for de-buffs are terrible and *** far as i know i think mages can de-buff also. archers really need a buff that makes our speed travel +5% or SOMETHING.


another thing. yes range is important, mages and archer should NOT have the same rage, makes no sense at all.

[XcakerulesX]

You know I am really tired of people saying things like 'Archers are worthless' or 'they have no good skills'
When in reality a good Kiter is awsome. What an archer is supposed to do si learn the regen rate for each monster (or atleast the one he is fighting) and then poison/bleed/etc then run until it is a few seconds before the regen, then hit it with other skills, this leaves the mob with only a quarter hp or less iot is then easy to kill.
Also archers def is not paper thin. Mages def is paper thin

Well whose debuffs helps kill the bosses at Kingdom Quest faster? Ours. We got the 14+ damage hitting them every second, if they changed it so it does it no matter what, that's the same debuff(s) every 30 seconds~

[MissusDolly]

At higher levels archer gain a speed buff. Mages can debuff at I believe lvl 35 or something like that. Archers need to also be faster then other classes I agree there. Kiting does work to a certain extent. Some monsters are faster then archer's sadly, but better to try and kit and save some hp then allowing you to get whacked to death. Archers are not paper thin, I can take several hits from a grave wolf without using a stone if I kit. :)
-Dolly

[HateUchiha]

oh and another thing, we need more skills. entanglement or....SOMETHING. clerics get like 20 skills from 1-50 archers get 8, (posion,venom,bleed,natures protection,mist,multi-shot, aimed, power shot)

[XcakerulesX]

Speedy slimes, 'Gee let's try to kill these, it can't be that fast' >.>


Oh, and remember, clerics skills from 60+ are butt

[HateUchiha]

I still think kiting is not so useful... it just doesn't sound right...to run and stop to poison...I've always thought that archers can kill things before they reach them, can't you just keep attacking them and kill them? If i was an archer, i'd just spam all my skills with poison first. Kiting is good, but i'm the guy who likes killing fast!
thats mage right there. killing before they reach u...mages do so much dmg it isnt funny lol.

[slashtrak]

You know I am really tired of people saying things like 'Archers are worthless' or 'they have no good skills'
When in reality a good Kiter is awsome. What an archer is supposed to do si learn the regen rate for each monster (or atleast the one he is fighting) and then poison/bleed/etc then run until it is a few seconds before the regen, then hit it with other skills, this leaves the mob with only a quarter hp or less iot is then easy to kill.
Also archers def is not paper thin. Mages def is paper thin

That's a whole lot more work other classes don't have to do.

Just saying.

[MissusDolly]

They say they are suppose to add an entanglement skill, but I must agree archers need a few more skills.
-Dolly

[TenshiShukuya]

I personally don't kite when I play my archer. I see no point in it. I solo a lot too mind you.. but when soloing I notice that if I turn and run they can almost always catch up with me... and hit me when I'm running as well. Especially if the area isn't big and doesn't leave room for kiting. Then there's always the helpful person who thinks you are running because you can't handle it.. and they take your kill. Add to that the fact that I wont always know what I might accidentally turn and run into...because remember when you run you have to know your environment.. and things constantly spawn right in front of you.

So I've found it more advantageous as a solo'r to not Kite. Now in a group pulling is one thing.. but soloing.. no I see no point to it. I much prefer to stand at a distance, stack my DoT's on the monster and continue to shoot my wimpy lil shots while waiting for a cool to end.. yes I use stones, but It's not like stones are expensive, they are cheaper than pots.. and if I'm in a good area I can always house.

[DJSharp]

I personally don't kite when I play my archer. I see no point in it. I solo a lot too mind you.. but when soloing I notice that if I turn and run they can almost always catch up with me... and hit me when I'm running as well. Especially if the area isn't big and doesn't leave room for kiting. Then there's always the helpful person who thinks you are running because you can't handle it.. and they take your kill. Add to that the fact that I wont always know what I might accidentally turn and run into...because remember when you run you have to know your environment.. and things constantly spawn right in front of you.

So I've found it more advantageous as a solo'r to not Kite. Now in a group pulling is one thing.. but soloing.. no I see no point to it. I much prefer to stand at a distance, stack my DoT's on the monster and continue to shoot my wimpy lil shots while waiting for a cool to end.. yes I use stones, but It's not like stones are expensive, they are cheaper than pots.. and if I'm in a good area I can always house.

Whole-heartedly agreed :D

[tarugo]

This ain't Lineage where kiting can be used strategically. Kiting here is fairly useless as all monsters can eventually catch up to you before you even know it and that's from 13.5m away. :eek:

[Dark_assassin4u]

your Right, Archers do suck


but kiting is different and useful for an archer soloing... we just attack and then run back till the skills cool

[kmedagreat]

i`ve heard lots of ppl saying archer r suck, weaskest character and etc. No matter how much i try to objected but somehow i feel like they r right .I`have done lots of things such as, pmming GM, and posting reply but nothing change. I ve seen the thread posted by GM getting feedback from archers. but, i dont see any different accept for the additional skill for lvl 60+ (correct me if i`m wrong). About soloing, i agree wif the fact that archer can solo, even me myself spend lots of time playing solo, to calculate starting from lvl1 until lv 47, i spend only 2% or less of my time in pt(except for kq) but can u imagine how much money i spend on stone?. I`m here not to offend anyone but all i want is enjoyment of playing games wif the character we like. Its true if we want our character to be strong why dont we choose fighter, cleric or mage but its nature of some human being that if they like certain thing, in this case a character they will use it no mater they know its suck. i`ve played archer in many MMORPG,and this is the weakest archer character that i have. Its not like i want archer to be the strongest character(a bit improvement is okay for me). all i want is all character seem fair.