Why agility?

[talonmas]

I'm thinking about doing a Squire. When reading through all the build threads I notice alot of you add agility. But why? Why do you all add agility?? I just can't see the logic behind it.

First I assume you add 17 agility since it's a new threshold. Also assume you wont reach much higher in agility since you will need the pow in some ratio.


17 points for -0.1s attack speed (for NORMAL attacks, not skills...)

17 points would be 5-6 extra dodge. (not even with the neo skill that add 10 dodge you will dodge peco pecos!! so what do you think 5-6 dodge will add? the "miss" you see is because of your level, not your agility)

17 points adds mostly to skill crit (do it dd normal crit at all?). Well, skill crits are, imo, useless. Like 15% extra damage max. While normal crits do double damage...


So, what could you get instead? 200+ more hp. or 15 more attack (which results in maybe 50 more damage when using skills). or higher normal/skill crits along with faster skill casting (able to spam slash). They all seem better to me compared to what agility do.


So now, can someone explain why the entire squire community runs around with agility? I must have overlooked something ^.^

[Rodaa]

this is one thing that has always confused me

its also why i stopped adding AGI (adding a bit of MEN right now and maybe some STA later)

[FatTony30]

I could be wrong, but it might be good for people who like to weave attack-skills instead of spamming skills.

[Rodaa]

well squires dont really weave, neophytes do but us squires spam

[ozzyrocks123]

huuuuu?i dont know what u are taling about becuase im new.

[sinesh]

ok i know the anser. agi ups the critel hit % so more agi then higher hits!

[josh_45]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by weave... but my method is start with a lvl 2 slash (hotkey F1), then when I do the animation of pulling up my sword for the regular attack, I activate slash again. So... it would look like this if Slash = S and Regular attack = R.....

Shield Crash>>R>>S>>R>>S>>R>>S>>R>>S.....

It absolutely obliterates the enemy. So to answer the question... agility does away with the need to spam skills. Thats just me though.

And to add a question, in the upper right the timer for skills like shield crash and etc... is there anyway to speed it up?

[Shiryou]

And to add a question, in the upper right the timer for skills like shield crash and etc... is there anyway to speed it up?

MEN speeds up the timer...don't know how much you have to add to see a significant change though...

[Rodaa]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by weave... but my method is start with a lvl 2 slash (hotkey F1), then when I do the animation of pulling up my sword for the regular attack, I activate slash again. So... it would look like this if Slash = S and Regular attack = R.....

Shield Crash>>R>>S>>R>>S>>R>>S>>R>>S.....

It absolutely obliterates the enemy. So to answer the question... agility does away with the need to spam skills. Thats just me though.

And to add a question, in the upper right the timer for skills like shield crash and etc... is there anyway to speed it up?

hmm i may need to give this a shot

i may ditch getting any STA and only get POW,AGI and MEN

could result in decent damage output

[talonmas]

Agility only (or mostly) ups SKILL crit. And that crit sux bad.
As for weaving, it's not the normal attack speed that's the problem. It's the skill speed. And you lower that with Men, not Agi. And anyway, 17 agi for 0.1 second??? Not a big improvement and few can see it without computer aid, lol.

Weaving is very doable without agility. In fact, there's no change whatsoever according to me.

So, still no reason to add agility for me.

[Aurican]

I would like to see evidence of Men lowering the speed of Slash! since there is no charge bar, and the downtime on SC.

Damage wise, Agi raises attack pow, and Skill crit. The rate may SEEM poor, but I crit every mob 1-3 times with 6 Skill Crit.. Plus I haven't missed in a long time, and I was just at the west CV maps at 32. xD

Having 17 Agi is an end goal approaching level 66. I don't recommend getting to it first, since STA is just as important. Plus diverting points into Wis for burning save me 2 on sta, so that's 2 extra points for POW right there or 2 more for burning II.

You don't need all pow to level grind, since that's done best on lower maps according to your level. the Agi/Sta is for tougher maps! Time is really being saved this way. People just need to understand the mechanics of the squires class to know where and how to use it..

[Nixxy]

When i make a fighter i wouldnt bother with AGI.

Just Pow and a Lil Men.

the damage you would loose and wt loss with adding AGI instead of POW isnt worth it for me.

[Rodaa]

I would like to see evidence of Men lowering the speed of Slash! since there is no charge bar, and the downtime on SC.


I've seen a charge bar, its very short but you could shorten it more with MEN

also why do you put an excalmation mark on the word "Slash"?

[talonmas]

Wanna see evidence of the speed? Go watch any Squire 60+ with high men. There's a difference I can tell you that.

And skill crits, tsk... they arent even worth it, so low extra damage.

And like you said, you either solo grind on lower maps, or you party. On lower maps you dont take damage so you want to maximize your killing speed. Hence the Pow. While in parties you either sync your stun skills, or you have an Aco. Neither need high hp or dodge. Just fast kill speed. Thus the Pow.

And agility doesnt add accuracy, does it?

And for dodge, it's your level that makes them miss, not your dodge rate. My neo is level 30 with around 20 in dodge stat. He gets hit all the time, while my diciple get missed all the time on the same mobs. And he has 3 dodge... So, it's the level, not your agility.

And last, you lose out on the high wt capacity.

[Claiomh.Solais]

Wanna see evidence of the speed? Go watch any Squire 60+ with high men. There's a difference I can tell you that.

And skill crits, tsk... they arent even worth it, so low extra damage.

And like you said, you either solo grind on lower maps, or you party. On lower maps you dont take damage so you want to maximize your killing speed. Hence the Pow. While in parties you either sync your stun skills, or you have an Aco. Neither need high hp or dodge. Just fast kill speed. Thus the Pow.

And agility doesnt add accuracy, does it?

And for dodge, it's your level that makes them miss, not your dodge rate. My neo is level 30 with around 20 in dodge stat. He gets hit all the time, while my diciple get missed all the time on the same mobs. And he has 3 dodge... So, it's the level, not your agility.

And last, you lose out on the high wt capacity.


Simple enough, those 16 agi are not that useful on lower lvls, but at the same time, wouldn’t really be a hindrance. The real point comes from the fact that agi does also raise attack and not as little as some people may think. If you have compared any full pow build at around lvl 40 and a same lvl build with the 17 agi and the rest in pow, you will see that indeed the difference in attack is not that high (17 pow will give you something around 16 attack, whereas 17 agi will give you around 8 attack), so at best a full pow build will have like 10 attack more than a build with the 17 agi. But, the agi build also comes with the speed increase (little, that’s true, but still could help somewhat), the skill critical increase (sure, it’s also not that much extra damage, but it could make a difference.), and the little extra dodge (that once again may not be much, but could help), so once in the end you add up all those “little” extra things, it adds up to a more balanced character. Whether that’s enough to make up for the little attack lost, it’s up to the player to decided it.

Also, another point is that you shouldn’t really start investing on agi till at least lvl 30+, so you have a good enough pow base. Then once those 17 agi are done, I would go for at least 12 men. With both the men and agi, you will end up with a character with a good skill spamming speed and even the possibility of waving, but also with a very good skill crit chance, while at the same time being more balanced than a pure pow build that will only do a little more damage than you, but that will be overall slower in every aspect.

Personally, I would never suggest going pure pow, but now, whether you go for a pow/agi/men hybrid (with pow still being the primary stat) or for a pow/men build (once again, mainly pow till a good amount, then men till the desired cap, 12, 16 or 20 would work well) would still be up to what the player wants with their char.

[talonmas]

Ok, first of, you will NOT use normal attacks in this game unless you're a shadow lord with the double damage/crit skill. So the attack speed increase means nothing. At most you will weave, and then you wont need the increased atk spd.

And if I want damage, I add Pow.

And if I want crits, I add Men. You get even more crits out of Men than from Agi.

And if I want attack speed, I add Men. Skill attack speed is more important than normal.
Do you not even get a small dodge increase from men? Since you were talking about 'many little improvements are good together' ^.^


Bottom line: You can spen your points MUCH better, and still have a "balanced" char. For example by adding men/sta. Why get a few minor upgrades, when you can get many major ones? ^.^

[Aurican]

I've seen a charge bar, its very short but you could shorten it more with MEN

also why do you put an excalmation mark on the word "Slash"?

Two reasons. I'm always testing people, and i'm doing a study. 8D

As far that charge bar, I don't still don't see it and I'll look into it myself since no one understands what "evidence" means. xD Besides the charge bar represents the length of animation before damage is dealt or executed. If I can't see it at all, then is time even being saved?

---
talonmas:

Sure it wasn't just lag? I can't even see a charge bar, so how much faster can the truly be going? Also, what about SC down time?

Start adding EQ that raises Crits and couple it with the Rogues skill. With your own Skill Crit base combined with those, the damage is VERY noticable.

On lower maps they have less HP and die fast enough with higher level swords and skill levels. Decent parties constantly engage multiple foes, which means SC is normally reserved to keep you from dieing, or to pull agro off of a App/Aco.

Not sure, but I miss rarely on bright red mobs

If it is based solely on level, that would make Dodge useless don't you think? It's more likely that Level might be factored into the dodge equation. My Neo is 32 and I dodge like crazy. Try equiping a +1 shield on it.. 8D

I can equip 200+ pots with 2000 WT no problem. I have yet to see a problem on a little less WT. Pow is still being increased and we get WT added every level.

[josh_45]

Enough arguing!!! There is a spell bar for slash. I had to take like 25 screenshots to see it, as with my level 42 it casts instantly. The meter i was referring to tho is the one in the upper right corner under the map. For Sharpen, in this case... Also Agi makes ur character move physically faster in the game. U run by other charcters when u start equal and both move the same way.

[gutszi]

now with all this talking Im kinda curious.

Im lvl 31... took me only 3 days to get there anywho... my stats while naked

hp 338
mp 51
wt 1845

pow 24
int 1
agi 13
men 3
sta 4
wis 1

attack 31
def 2
magic 1
dodge 9
att speed 1.3
move speed 19
hit rate 86
crit 3
skill crit 5

_________________________________________________

this I know - every lvl of pow addes 30 carryweight while your a squire anyway just decided to post to let the number people start figureing things out