Guild War Rules are RIDICULOUS

[SinisterFiend]

I'm starting this thread to complain about the guild war rules. I think shroom killing and especially shop killing need to be dealt with. According to the rules I can sit and wait for all or most members of a guild to log off and go into shops then declare a war against them and shop kill them and I won't get in any trouble. Yet if that guild was to war me in revenge because of my pathetic actions, they would get in trouble. That seems quite ridiculous to me. I feel the rules need to be changed.

SinisterFiend

[ARWINDER]

i agree! im going to protest

[exp_hog]

I STRONGLY agree. I mean seriously, what war IS NOT declared because of revenge of some sort?

If someone is going to war you for a revenge do you think they are going to tell you a reason why unless they are stupid of course? Besides, if you don't want to fight, why the hell are you in a warring guild? Go join a non-warring guild if you're scared of fighting.

They need to remove ALL rules and make it so you can not be attacked if you have set up shop/shroom before the war has started to protect those who are really AFK (unlike those who use their shrooms as a type of defence).

[Tamlinari]

Well I am sure that Mr. Dakkon (who is the author of the Guild War rules) expects everyone to behave honorably and with a certain degree decorum and maturity but I am sorry to say that there are those that simply won't do that.
Luckily the shops do not show Guild names nor do they show up red but resting and AFK does and that is where a lot of abuse happens.
That and spawn killing and ganging up on players outside of town in the field or while you are fighting off mobs.
Shops only get attacked when some other player recognizes your name.

I do agree that something needs to be done but I am not sure what.

[The-Sakura]

I'm pretty sure that shroom killing is against the rules.

I would be fairly shocked if he forgot to add that into them- I would send him a message saying that he forgot to put them in.

[non_existent]

I just read the rules, and I find it quite surprising that spawn killing, shop killing, and attacking players outside of town do seem to be allowed. They have been mentioned in the rules as "optional guidelines".

However, shroom killing has not been noted in these guidelines. Based on the fact that shop killing is not illegal, and the fact that "giving warred players a chance to withdraw if they ask for it" is also optional, it doesn't actually seem like shroom killing would be breaking any rules...

There is the phrase "except under extreme circumstances"...but seems pretty ill-defined.

[SinisterFiend]

If you look at the rules shroom killing is not addressed but under optional guidlines shop killing and spawn killing are addressed but you cant get in trouble for them.
As for shop killing, maybe it doesn't happen much, but it did happen to me. That's why i started this thread. I missed out on 7 hours of shop time (I was sleeping) because some rude noob hunted for me and killed me. Now I myself don't NEED the shop time but here's a scenerio:
A person with 2 silver left to their name puts up a shop to sell stuff over night so they can come back tomorrow and have money to be able to play the game. That person's guild gets warred 30 min after they leave and that person gets shopped killed by a noob. Now that person loses hours of shop time and can't play the following day because they have no money cause some noob shop killed them.
Thus the person doing the shop killing is infringing on another persons right to play. That should have some kind of consequences.
As you can see I'm very annouyed about the fact that nothing is done about this. I think what annouys me the most is that if I was to war the guild the person that shop killed me is in, I could possibly get thrown in fiesta jail for warring for revenge.

[Serric]

Has anyone actually sent a PM to GM_Dakkon to get his official take on this?

Just a thought....

Also, although this IS feedback, I am not certain this is the most appropriate forum for this.... moving it to general forums...

[NekoVampire]

setting up a shop is also not the only way to gain silver..

Please note that I am not disagreeing with you, only the scenario you proposed. I do think that shop and shroom killing should be defined as illegal within the guild war rules. The only problem is, no matter what happens.. it will end up being abused.

I do agree that there should be some sort of way to protect AFK players who have gone away BEFORE the war began. I have to say, though, that going AFK while your guild is currently in a war is a rather stupid thing to do...

[SinisterFiend]

Yes I did PM Dakkon about shop killing. I asked if anything could be done. He replied telling me to read Guild War Rules and Guidelines, which pretty much means he was telling me no nothing will be done.

[Madcharo]

My suggestion would be to have an afk status tag for your character.

This would make it so no player can attack you, you wont be killed in a Guild War while in your vendor or whatever and you can keep out of a Guild war so you dont get attacked in a field while grinding.

Just something to make it so somebody couldn't just press it in the middle of a fight, make it so that you have to wait 10 secs (like for logging out) before you can go into afk status.

I guess this could also work for PvP maps but I dont see why you would go in a PvP map just to go afk...

[Madcharo]

And as for the location of this being in general discussion, IDK how it got here but I started it in feedback.

Serric explains that a few posts back ;)

[Bubblezio]

Yes, I do think there should be a way to protect the AFK's. But one way the AFK's can protect themselves (if in guild) is to use an alternative character (GUILDLESS!) and vendor or shroom or w/e.

About shroom killing however... People will abuse this. Go into shroom, other person waits, then the shroomer goes out and attacks.

To be honest, shroom killing will only ruin a guild's reputation, unless theres a specific reason as to why an unfriendly war leading to shroom/spawn kill. By ruining the reputation of the guild, it'll cause more problems later on. ^^" Like, being randomly warred by higher level guilds, or a few guilds...not for revenge purposes, but for letting them know how it 'feels' to be murdered endlessly... o.o

[exp_hog]

being randomly warred by higher level guilds, or a few guilds...not for revenge purposes, but for letting them know how it 'feels' to be murdered endlessly... o.o

So warring someone because they did something you did not like is not revenge?

[Bubblezio]

So warring someone because they did something you did not like is not revenge?

Honestly speaking, theres a few ways around the "revenge" rule, I believe. Since this rule is about "intent", the intention of the guild war was not "revenge" for the other guilds.

A way around the "Revenge" rule:
Excuse - Random warred you cause I wanted some of your blood.
It's hard proving whether the intention of the guild war was really for revenge, or for other reasons. Unless stated by a guild member or master or admin, then you'll know for sure, otherwise...you can't really prove the intention.

There is nothing against random wars, even if its a higher level guild against a lower level guild.

And...the way I view Revenge...is if one guild pissed off another guild, the other guild wars.
It's not whether the guild did something you didn't like, so you war, cause that isn't really revenge.

[SinisterFiend]

Well in response to having ways around the "revenge rule", maybe there is ways, but that doesn't provide any justice for a noobs actions of spawn, shroom, or shop killing. That noob can simply log off, or scroll to a different town and go and hide. Or in my case the noob that shop killed me quits the guild that she was in when she did it (after I warred the guild to fight her while I wasn't afk) and then joins her level 78 mage internet boy friend's guild so that he will protect her. So this being said, I feel that there should still be RULES enforced on this matter.

[Bubblezio]

Well in response to having ways around the "revenge rule", maybe there is ways, but that doesn't provide any justice for a noobs actions of spawn, shroom, or shop killing. That noob can simply log off, or scroll to a different town and go and hide. Or in my case the noob that shop killed me quits the guild that she was in when she did it (after I warred the guild to fight her while I wasn't afk) and then joins her level 78 mage internet boy friend's guild so that he will protect her. So this being said, I feel that there should still be RULES enforced on this matter.

Yes, there should be rules enforced on Vendor killing...but like I stated earlier, vendors can protect themselves by setting an alternative character whom is guildless to vendor. It might be annoying to do so, but it will keep your shop safe. ^^ So, while there is no rules against shroom/vendor kill, set your alts to shop :O

[flamegirl]

Hmm... This is a puzzling issue. I do believe shroom killing and spawn killing will not get a player banned, but they may be given a warning if you can PM very convincing screenshots to the GM's. Really the only way you could get someone in trouble is if you have harcore evidence, or if they repeatedly war as soon as they can and continue to kill you. Because they can't really do anything unless you can prove it is harrassment.

[exp_hog]

Then there is no point of this "revenge" rule considering anyone can war for any reason including revenge and claim they only warred because "they wanted your blood". Thus, this rule sucks and needs to be removed.

Seriously, let guilds do whatever they want to each other. They didn't allow non-warring guilds into this game for no reason and allow those who are shroomed or shoped before the war to be protected.

Oh and don't add another stupid rule to this game, just implement something so that you are unable to do so.

[Bubblezio]

Then there is no point of this "revenge" rule considering anyone can war for any reason including revenge and claim they only warred because "they wanted your blood". Thus, this rule sucks and needs to be removed.

Seriously, let guilds do whatever they want to each other. They didn't allow non-warring guilds into this game for no reason and allow those who are shroomed or shoped before the war to be protected.

Oh and don't add another stupid rule to this game, just implement something so that you are unable to do so.

Thats only my point of the 'revenge' rule. I'm not sure how others view it. I find it hard to prove overall unless some idiot says 'we warred cause its revenge for doing this and that to me'. And you have evidence to prove this (screenshots).

Your view of the 'revenge' rule may be different from mine.

[ChaosSeraph2]

Yeah this GW rules is complete and ulterly BS

[darjpen10]

LOL, last time.. this guild killed us soo much the [GM]Dakkon whispered them and told them to stop, they started bragging about them beating us.. it was funy becuz the war started when our gm got a green from seq and the person wanted it.. well, it was seq for a reason xD

[darjpen10]

My suggestion would be to have an afk status tag for your character.

This would make it so no player can attack you, you wont be killed in a Guild War while in your vendor or whatever and you can keep out of a Guild war so you dont get attacked in a field while grinding.

Just something to make it so somebody couldn't just press it in the middle of a fight, make it so that you have to wait 10 secs (like for logging out) before you can go into afk status.

I guess this could also work for PvP maps but I dont see why you would go in a PvP map just to go afk...

dude.. some people could put that on, rest. then start killing unless its like an auto thingy where u dont move for a while then it says afk or something

[Vajrabhairava]

I think it would be easiest to just have an option to somehow not participate in the war. But I think that that, and any other actual modifications to the game can only really be done by the developers of the game, which I don't think outspark is. But I dunno.

The war rules seem reasonable to me, at least the last time I looked. And even if not, its a game. Its not a big enough deal to get in such a fit about. (not pointing at anyone particularly)

[yumebunny]

I didn't read through all ..but just a reminder that aoe spells can also accidentally shroom/shop kill if ur opponents from the other guild are high lvl enough..?

So if someone afk got killed coz he or she was shrooming/vendoring around that area that others were unfortunately fighting at...

There really isn't much to be done x.x

Vendoring on ur alts while u are afk seems to be the best solution for now. ^_^