I'm going to make it overly-apparent and say. .

[Ka.chan]

The classes are unbalanced.

I'm positive that many of you have experienced this before:
Your cleric is solo-er while your archer has to get into a party everytime you want to gain exp.

Your cleric is lvl. 6X, while your mage is a mere 3X.

You've been made fun of for asking to PLVL on your mage/archer.

Your mage/archer can barely last in PVP with all those fighters and clerics.

What I'm saying is that; something needs to be done, and now. I'm sure Outspark is working on it, tediously. But the income of new dances, cash shop items and events don't seem to say, " We're working on it, please be patient. "

Here's what I propose: We should lower cleric's defense, they already have Heal, so what's the point?

Lower Magic Defense of Monsters, or increase Magic Damage of Mages, so they can solo fairly well.

Archers need DEX to be damage and evasion, with some sort of armor that is a bit stronger.

All classes need to have some sort of STUN, it's not fair when a fighter, who already has high damage and defense to stun the heck outta you.

I really hope I am heard out, I tried to speak with one of the GM's a little while ago, [ Can't remember her/his name]; but they told me to postit on the forums. But sadly, I don't think GM's really pay attention to the forums.

[Kuydo]

The Gm's do pay attention to the forums, a lot more then one thinks. Just because they do not post in every subject or comment on every question does not mean they are blind to it. I would believe one would have better luck posting in this thread about the character balance, seeing as there are already quite a few threads on the same subject floating around. Be heard, Fiesta Issue Poll (http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37217)

[smitske]

ye sure lower clerics def, make us even more suckie'er
Why do people always say clerics are the easyest to solo, you people are stupid.
Clerics are easy at 40- maybe but after that no way.
They are not easy to solo, they are cheap to solo, not easy.

[DeathBringer01]

I think that for the mage they NEED to make Lightning Bolt stun and for icebolt plz show its damage b/c we buy new ice bolts but dotn know the damage increase or make it like a fighters attack rate skill, and everytime u upgrade it it slows them even more.


Also for mages they do need to increase damage on the lvl 20+ weapons b/c mobs get alot harder to kill and it takes me 4 hits to kill a gray mob and i have a KM wand with +11 int and sum other int equips, and my build is 25 spr full int.


P.S. im playing on the new Epith server thats why im a nub.

[Serric]

The Gm's do pay attention to the forums, a lot more then one thinks. Just because they do not post in every subject or comment on every question does not mean they are blind to it. I would believe one would have better luck posting in this thread about the character balance, seeing as there are already quite a few threads on the same subject floating around. Be heard, Fiesta Issue Poll (http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37217)

Thanks, Kuydo - I was about to say the same thing :D

I'd +rep you but it's broken for me.... :mad: I'll see what I can do, tho. You deserve a +rep for that :)

[lordalden]

The classes are unbalanced.

I'm positive that many of you have experienced this before:
Your cleric is solo-er while your archer has to get into a party everytime you want to gain exp.

Your cleric is lvl. 6X, while your mage is a mere 3X.

You've been made fun of for asking to PLVL on your mage/archer.

Your mage/archer can barely last in PVP with all those fighters and clerics.

What I'm saying is that; something needs to be done, and now. I'm sure Outspark is working on it, tediously. But the income of new dances, cash shop items and events don't seem to say, " We're working on it, please be patient. "

Here's what I propose: We should lower cleric's defense, they already have Heal, so what's the point?

Lower Magic Defense of Monsters, or increase Magic Damage of Mages, so they can solo fairly well.

Archers need DEX to be damage and evasion, with some sort of armor that is a bit stronger.

All classes need to have some sort of STUN, it's not fair when a fighter, who already has high damage and defense to stun the heck outta you.

I really hope I am heard out, I tried to speak with one of the GM's a little while ago, [ Can't remember her/his name]; but they told me to postit on the forums. But sadly, I don't think GM's really pay attention to the forums.

I agree with what Kuydo said(given that the specific area listed already is used to compile such suggestions etc), but if you don't mind, I'd like to put my two cents in, as a normal, observing player, not a CL. Please also bear in mind I'm not arguing to upset you, and I will try to, from my end, make my tone come off as light in such a manner, but I feel to better round this out, I should come at the points I feel are inaccurate.
--------------

Cleric's won't need lowered defense. Their damage output reflects their defensive abilities quite perfectly, in that they do little, very little. A mage of the same level of a Cleric will typically put out 75% more damage and sustain that numeric advantage indefinately. I've also found, facing a Cleric of equal level while I was using a mage, I was able to keep up on healing myself with just stones.
--------------

Lower monster magic defense. Good idea, actually, in some ways. Higher mage damage? Totally un-necessary. Frost Nova highlights this idea perfectly, in that it does totally outrageous damage when used. To say lower magic defense for monsters though, creates a bit of a problem, as it's not the defense that's the problem, necessarily.
---------------

It's rather the scalability of monster HP. This is a typical method for making an enemy last under heavy fire(For instance, boss type monsters). While in this, I'm not saying something of near equal level should last 35 of your attacks, that's also typically not a consideration, even for the Budget Mage. Archer's I will concede do have to work harder for that kill though.
---------------

Archers need DEX for Damage/Evade? Let's cut that to just Damage, as it already presents an Evasion bonus by %, which will scale faster than a static gain, and then I agree with you whole heartedly on that point, as it reflects the purpose of an archer in my opinion. The armor? Archer's actually have some pretty good armor in my mind. Good evade and physical defense on the various pieces.
---------------

All classes needing stun? Here's a point I see with mixed views. I on one hand, will concede that it would offer some balance to the various classes(but let's not give Mage's this, they have Fear at level 60 as is, which works just as well for it's duration).

On the other hand: It would destroy the idea of a Fighter being a tank, and a tank's job is not just to absorb damage(although that's a priority, lol), but also to stifle enemy damage dealing abilities in short bursts, making them a semi self-supportive role(Tank's in almost every MMO on the market work in such a way). So...

...if I was to desire to improve that arguement(given that I'm half and half on that one), I would say: Why not give debuffs credible only to the certain classes? Although this already exists to a limited extent(as I don't really count Poisons in this), I feel it could be improved upon in my own experience.
----------------

Now, all that said, again, I'm just stating observations from my gameplay, and my opinions do not reflect that of other CL's, or other players necessarily. It was merely my thoughts on it all. I enjoyed reading your post, and seeing a reply, as I feel you could be a stout contributer, as you have made some terrific points in my mind. Let's keep it peaceful, eh?

[Jake-Kelton]

CL_lordalden, I agree with you completely, though I understand many of Ka.chan's points.

I, as a 42 ranger, can actually solo, but it's slow. I'm almost a STR pure, which means I output a lot of damage. Not as much as a mage, but deffinantly up there. So increased STR on Rangers would be the best plan because, not only do they automaticly have high DEX (with creatures my level, I get missed every 1/3 times I get attacked) and high STR (I do crit's almost 1/6 attacks), but they also get fair HP/SP. But if the Ranger just has +'s STR, what is the difference between a mage and a Ranger? I think that's the biggest issue in Character Imbalance is that the Mage puts out an insane amount of DPS (Damage Per Second) while the Ranger does a fair amount with it's fast attacks and PDS (Periodic Damage Spells). So the real question is, why would someone choose a Ranger over a Mage? If the Mage plays it's spells right and the Tanker is a good one, why not take the more powerful one?

Stun on all characters would deffininatly be interested. I can see it now, in a PvP area, everyone stunning everyone else. XD In my mind, there should be something a little different for each character. The Fighters already have the stun. The Mage's get Fear at a high level that like CL_lordalden said, works like stun. Rangers (if they don't at some uber high level) should have a spell that entanges creatures (like the Mara Pirate Rangers). The creature can still attack if it is in range, but it gives a chance for the Ranger to either get away, or move until it cannot be attacked and then pour in more Damage.

As for the party imbalance, I myself have said many times that a Fighter and a Cleric could level together all the way up with no problem. But, it would take a LOT of time. As a fighter, your job is to take the damage and keep the aggro, so your not THAT interested in how much damage you deal. Clerics hit tiny amounts, so they hardly count as damage and mostly focas on healing. That's where mages and rangers come in. My brother, a 47 cleric, partying with a good tanker, can take out Stonies in CP1 easily. But with me along, he says that they kill the Stonies in about half to a third of the time it took them before. That means I'm doing roughly the same to double the damage of the Tanker, making it faster kills and faster exp. But this brings me back to my initial question. Every character has a purpose , expect rangers. Fighter = Taking and doing damage, Clerics = Healing and buffing themselves and other players, Mages = Doing fast, kick butt damage. Rangers? Doing a good bit of damage over a period of time. So... why have Rangers?

Just some thoughts...

[Eluchil]

I think it depends on the archer's build. I've partied with archers that can deal much more damage than a mage. Of course, that's if and when their poison/bleed takes to the enemy.

I think it'd also be beneficial for archers to have a mobility status effect like the mage does with ice or pixies in Uruga use. That'd help the archer a great deal.

[jaminxcore]

Lol arnt mages powerful enough and also being a cleric solo-ing is boring i bet most clerics ish they had better attacks and stuff. The only class i feel sorry for and that should be changed is archers.

[DeathBringer01]

All classes needing stun? Here's a point I see with mixed views. I on one hand, will concede that it would offer some balance to the various classes(but let's not give Mage's this, they have Fear at level 60 as is, which works just as well for it's duration).

Ok how many mages or players in general actually get to lvl 60 and just then get a stun attack. I think i speak for most mages when I say that if ur lvl 60 u are not going to solo often but mostly AOE and fear wont help much. But for my lvl 25 mage that stun attack could help ALOT i mean maybe then i wont get hit twice taking half my hp b/c it takes every skill i have in my arsenal plus about 3 MM[1] to kill a Yellow Mob and some green mobs take about 1 less MM[1].

P.S. My mage is 25 spr full int with all int equips and KM wand that is +7 int +11 spr and +13 dex and it still takes that long.

[XpierulesX]

Actually if you Look here (http://www.outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50637) You'll find their fixing the classes up a bit.

[hesqua]

Ah hmm yeah if we lower cleric's defence then all cleric will be doing is standing in front of the mob healing themselves while doing next to no dmg on the mob.... =/

[lordalden]

Ok how many mages or players in general actually get to lvl 60 and just then get a stun attack. I think i speak for most mages when I say that if ur lvl 60 u are not going to solo often but mostly AOE and fear wont help much. But for my lvl 25 mage that stun attack could help ALOT i mean maybe then i wont get hit twice taking half my hp b/c it takes every skill i have in my arsenal plus about 3 MM[1] to kill a Yellow Mob and some green mobs take about 1 less MM[1].

P.S. My mage is 25 spr full int with all int equips and KM wand that is +7 int +11 spr and +13 dex and it still takes that long.

I'll again speak as a player, giving my individual insight into the matter. Again, I mean no offense, and what I say is not meant to make you seem wrong, but rather to give more light to the situation(as nothing hurts from having another perspective brought into play).

-------------------
To put it bluntly, Mages at low levels with stun, would already put them farther ahead of the game than they are already at. This can be visibly seen by CP parties forming in the early 30's(even in the cases of mages NOT having a level 30 weapon). What do the parties more actively seek, an Archer or a Mage?

A Mage wins the vote of the party 9 times out of 10. Why? Sheer numbers. In these levels even(while many of you may be saying "But I am soloing!". You can get parties, but you generally have to do some work on your own end to make this happen, but it's entirely worth it.), a Mage is more practical in terms of how fast a mob will be killed, as opposed to an Archer.

That isn't to say an Archer is weak. But doing 10k damage over the course of 2 minutes to cripple a beast, as opposed to dropping it dead in 1 minute, the choice is mostly obvious.

Also, a Mage having a Stun would run counter to their survivability at those levels, which I am assuming is meant to be low(because at higher levels you can solo monsters around your level and higher with more ease, due to personal HP/SP scalability).

Giving a Mage stun would make them self/party supportive, which runs contrary to their archetype in the MMO perspective(a.k.a. the Nuker). An Archer is a well rounded class, or a stand-alone. A Fighter is a Tank, and a Cleric is a Healer(not that they can't fight, but 90% of their fights in mid-late levels will be ludicrously drawn out).
---------------------

Also, in many aspects of gameplay are strengthened by proper play strategies, and this is true in many MMO's. That is to say, in many games, a mage is empowered by his high damage, but is at a loss due to his armor. So, in light of that, many times the best idea is not to fight what matches you in power(or near to it in regards to that), but rather fight in tandem, weaker opponents.

While I will admit that at first, this will seem like a disparraged cause(as seeing the low exp numbers can cause a drop in morale), if you stick with it, you'll see it's actually pretty good. I've tested this myself around your level, and was fighting Grave Robbers at level 27, and killing them fairly quickly, and taking little damage. I was averaging far more experience/hour than I did at say, Glow Wolves, or even Bats.

So try that method out if you feel your "Paper Tiger" isn't showing much progress. You'll make great money because your inventory will fill quickly, which is a bonus, too. It's a tried and true method from MMO gaming, and I wager it will continue to be one.

----------------

Phew. I have to admit, your reply to me was by far one of the most honestly difficult ones to come back to, in that I had to think out what to say a LOT, but I love that, you made a good point, and I'm really sorry if my answer is a bit long. Can't wait to hear back from you. ^^

[rbd1313]

The classes are unbalanced.

I'm positive that many of you have experienced this before:
Your cleric is solo-er while your archer has to get into a party everytime you want to gain exp.

Your cleric is lvl. 6X, while your mage is a mere 3X.

You've been made fun of for asking to PLVL on your mage/archer.

Your mage/archer can barely last in PVP with all those fighters and clerics.

What I'm saying is that; something needs to be done, and now. I'm sure Outspark is working on it, tediously. But the income of new dances, cash shop items and events don't seem to say, " We're working on it, please be patient. "

Here's what I propose: We should lower cleric's defense, they already have Heal, so what's the point?

Lower Magic Defense of Monsters, or increase Magic Damage of Mages, so they can solo fairly well.

Archers need DEX to be damage and evasion, with some sort of armor that is a bit stronger.

All classes need to have some sort of STUN, it's not fair when a fighter, who already has high damage and defense to stun the heck outta you.

I really hope I am heard out, I tried to speak with one of the GM's a little while ago, [ Can't remember her/his name]; but they told me to postit on the forums. But sadly, I don't think GM's really pay attention to the forums.
BLAH BLAH BLAH
I'm tired of hearing this. Just because a person doesn't know how to place there skill points or play a different class correctly. I have a 60+ cleric and a 35+ mage and I can solo with both. My cleric takes forever to kill something compared to any other class at that same lvl so thankfully i can heal myself. As for my mage like other I placed a lot of poiints to INT but I'm not stupid enough to place all of them since I know I will solo alot. A pure srt spr int char is a party char and not great for solo thats why I have add 10 points to end already on my mage and at current lvl of 37 I have solo'ed harrkans in less then half the time it would take my cleric and with the right scrolls/buff I did it with only useing one HP stone. Thats a mob that is higher lvl then my char with ones my lvl I can kill before they even hit me at all so don't give me this bull you can solo with a mage and i know of a few archer friends/wife that solo well with there archer so seriously cry somewhere else if you can't solo with your char because it means your not doing it right or don't have your char setup right for soloing.

[DeathBringer01]

Yea lord i guess im just sick of fighting mobs that are green to me when my fighter kills red mobs with 1 hp stone.It gets old fighting the same mobs until they are grey, then u HAVE to move on.

[ryuarashi]

I dont think that the classes are necessarily unbalanced, and I have experience with all of them.

Archers:

My personal experience is simply that people think archers are too slow, they cant do the dmg as fast as a mage. Yet compare my lvl 40 archer and my lvl 40 mage. They both have +9 ggk weapons, and both are build for pure dmg.

Now my archer, she can kill harkans before they even touch her. My mage on the other hand, has to take at least 3 hits from the harkan before she kills it.

In my personal oppinion, archers are meant to be more of a soloing class, meant to be able to take a hit and keep on killin. The mages on the other hand seem to be more party based, needing a cleric to solo orange or higher mobs.

Archers aoe skill. There really is nothing wrong with the archers aoe. Archers are not a class build to do fast paced aoe groups. That is left more to the mages. Mages are a little harder to solo with than archers, so they need a good reason to be in pt, hence aoe cd is very quick.

Archers, I will admit, would benifit greatly from an entangle spell. But still, as it is, it would not be necessary . Entangle might just be fun, but it would not greatly help because archers usually kill too fast to really benifit from the skill. Imo archers may even be concidered overpowered if you compare it to the mages. Mages kill things faster at higher lvls, but they are paper thin and cannot solo as easily. Archers on the other hand solo with great success, and thats comming from an archer with a pure str build, and str not end eq.

If you are a soloer, and you dont like to do more than a duo, archers are for you. If im having a day where I jus wanna kill mobs and not have to worry about what the other people in a pt are doing, I choose my archer.


Mages:

Mages are nukers, they go in, blast the heck outa the mob, and possibly die in the process. They are paper thin (tho mine doesnt seem to die as easily as everyone claims mages to) and meant more for a pt based grinding.

Mages are more for aoe than archers are. They are the aoe gods basically. On a soloing basis, they are a bit weaker than archers. When I go into cp with my archer and my mage, it is significantly easier for me to find a duo/trio for my archer than it is to find a pt for my mage. So mages go to places like uruga and head for the aoe path. Which is what they are built for anyway.

Mages dont need another stun type ability, fear does well enough at high lvls. And lets face it, at earlier lvls you just dont need a stun. The cold spell slows mobs down enough to take them out usually before they reach you. You just need to know how to use your skills and stat pts well.

Mages are superior party members, they hide behind the tank and deal out massive damage in aoe skills. On the normal skills, lets use magic missle as an example. On average, comparing my archer and mage, my archer deals more damage than my mage, and faster too the way Ive built her. My mage takes a bit longer to kill things, even mobs her level.

Clerics:

Clerics, they arent as "easy" as people claim. Yes you can heal yourself, but then again the dmg you do isnt necessarily very high, depends on your build.

My cleric can solo harkans faster than my mage or my archer, and she too has a +9 ggk hammer, without good stats. I built her to be able to take a hit and give out damage at the same time. Personally i like my cleric for soloing or pt going grinding. I can choose to do both, which is an advantage over mages/archers yes, but it is not overbalanced.

Clerics after lvl 59, Ill admit, do get somewhat boring. But it depends on how you like to play. Do you like to grind on your own, or do you enjoy the fast paced life of the support class.

Some of the most fun of all my characters ive had on my cleric, when we aoe and I have to keep the pt alive even when the tank looses crontrol of the mobs. It makes the grind a bit more exciting and challenging.

Clerics are not overly powerfull, they are built to be a support class but at the same time be able to solo same as all the other classes.

Fighters:

Not much is said about fighters, they are pretty balanced, either choosing the dd path, the tank path, or the hybrid.

Tanks are able to use mock and devistate to absorb the damage from the mobs and to temporarily allow the cleric to catch up with everyone. Tanks rarely complain about their class, tho I will admit mock should be able to hold more mobs. I aoe mobs that are orange to me and have no problems doing it, yet I cannot control all the mobs I could handle, because mock misses and they tend to go strait for the archer or mage.

Fighters are very balanced, and very diverse. Depending on your build you can be good at soloing, pting or both.


IMO: The classes arent very unbalanced, and yes I suppose for those who cant just accept solo/duo on archers, the cd increase thats in works might help them feel more pt based.

Some of the fastest ways to lvl I have experianced isnt aoe, its a solo/duo pair. You take your archer/dd fighter or mage out with a cleric to anywhere really, and per hour you get far more exp than you would in an aoe pt, even a really good aoe pt.

[smitske]

ive also experienced it just depends at what lvl you play character, cleric is rather easy at low lvls, but after 2 it gets a little hard.
Archers are hard to begin with, but really at 50+ they are the best to duo with.
Mages get extremely strong after 60+ to my oppinion.
And like stated above, fighters are the most balanced class.

[Psycosis]

I guess the next change for class balance is to lower the attack rate of the bow.

I mean:
bow 0.9 sec
xbow 1.2 sec

That way, the dmg will keep being the same but at a faster rate.
Also, archers should have a skill (or modify aimed shot or power) to lower enemies travel speed.

At this point is pretty useless to chnage the weapon damage from STR to DEX, as most Archers are based on pure STR. If the did so, they should let archer change their points distribution, which will cause in a massive RIOT from Clerics, Mages and Fighters! :D

[Mekoides]

We should lower cleric's defense, they already have Heal, so what's the point?

Lower Magic Defense of Monsters, or increase Magic Damage of Mages, so they can solo fairly well.

You clearly know absolutely nothing about being a high level cleric OR mage.

[smitske]

You clearly know absolutely nothing about being a high level cleric OR mage.

I said the same thing about clerics ^^