Cleric Role in a Party [Archive]

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Lady-Loki

08-06-2007, 09:11 AM

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I'm curious - when a Cleric is partied, is the party looking to them to keep everyone healed and/or revived or is the party expecting the Cleric to be fully engaged in battle? I ask because (and maybe it's just me, but) if I am engaged in battle I can't heal others without leaving myself an open target to the enemy character.* Being Cleric means battle is up close and well within the enemy range, especially with enemy who don't use long-range firepower (i.e. Graverobber, Kebing, etc). I realize some enemy can target me from a distance, but . . anyway, back to the question:

When a Cleric is partied, is the party looking to them to keep everyone healed and/or revived or is the party expecting the Cleric to be fully engaged in battle?

tomcat025

08-06-2007, 09:30 AM

I think it depends on the size of the party. Personaly when it is a larger party I tend to stay back and attempt to keep them alive. In contrast, when I am partied with just one person I fight. Normaly I combat my own mob and heal my partner as needed. F-keys for targetting my mate and TAB for getting back to the mob.

Allia

08-07-2007, 07:06 AM

the &quot;F&quot; and &quot;TAB&quot; keys are great, tx for reminding them.

As for the question, i allways ask the team &quot;what rolle they need me to play&quot; or if I made the team i make sure they know the role i intend to play. So my advice is &quot;comunication&quot;

XeoN72

08-07-2007, 04:17 PM

Generally i stand back and heal, unless theyre easy mobs then i fight alongside them. I usually party with friends so they yell at me over vent if they need a heal ;P*

Boystuff

08-07-2007, 05:22 PM

Buff up, and heal those that are taking damage.

nellshini

08-07-2007, 05:45 PM

It depends on the party. If it's a full party chances are you're just expected to hang back and keep the tank healed. If there is more than one cleric then you can try and get on the frontlines.

At higher levels the Cleric is the offtank, since Archers and Mages can't really take too many hits. I can't say it's expected, but people will thank you if you turn and Bash a monster that spawned past the tank.

twistedthaiboy

08-07-2007, 06:12 PM

From playing MMO games for years, the healer (Cleric) should never be the one attacking at any time. Clerics are generally the buff/heal type character but people do like to go the solo way. But if you plan on grouping stick to the stats that you are supposed to and do not try to be the attacker. If you do group remember that you are the one that they are supposed to be protect at all time. Your fighters and range attackers should always keep all aggro off of you and stick with you. You will want to start up your own groups and keep it your group as long as you can hold it together because that will enable you to keep people you trust with your life in the group. Clerics are natural leaders of groups and without clerics there would not be a good EXP Grind group or anything of that sort. Yeah they might be able to do it without a group but they are gimmped and without the buffs and the extra heals they will be unable to overcome huger mobs within the game.

So if you want to take it from me, Play the part that you were ment to be, do your best at trying to keep them alive, and do not stress yourself. If you are doing your job right then you should have no problem. If you don't do it right then you will make a lot of people mad and they will remember you and never group with you again. If they are not protecting you they are not playing their part as a party member.

Healers are not killers.

Group = teamwork

Leader = understanding and teachings

Those are the 3 things you will need to remember, because you can't kill, and the only way to get good exp is through grouping and teamwork, and try to always be an understanding leader that is willing to give some tips that would help you live and the group become better...

That's all that I have to say, you all take care and happy hunting.

nellshini

08-07-2007, 06:21 PM

That post sounds like you never, um, played the game. Yes, generally Clerics should stay back and heal while the rest of the party takes aggro off them, but in Fiesta they have the highest durability of all four classes. It's tough to heal yourself and others at the same time, but I'd rather tank mobs myself than let the Mage or Archer do it.

And I'm a veteran of MMOs myself, and Clerics are moreso Pallys than Priests, if you want to tie em down to an archtype.

nellshini

08-07-2007, 06:43 PM

I played about 10 MMOs (6 known, a few unknown, and 1 my own project with friends) and healing in this game is just different. Playing EQ for years doesn't magically make you correct at Fiesta, and it's very, very easy for a Cleric to keep himself healed while fighting here, and it's not that much harder to heal a tank while fighting.

It's when more than one person wants to tank that the cleric has to work hard. And my knowledge is coming from my experience as a Cleric who's leveled to Lv44 and not from the other MMOs I've played.

[EDIT] Because that was written before your edit. I know what a grind group is and I've been in them as the healer, tank, and both in Fiesta. If there's a good tank in the party, the Cleric doesn't need to worry about his own health while fighting, because he won't have the aggro. And it just takes a click (or a push on the keyboard) to target a member and heal him in a split second. It's safer not to fight, but you make it sound like it's ridiculous for a Cleric to battle and support at the same time. It's not, and sometimes the little extra DPS is needed.

Fighting mobs 10 Lvs higher does work in this game with the right group, but I guarantee you that somewhere along that grind the Cleric will be tanking a mob on the side while healing, because he can.

[EDIT 2] I don't know why you brought solo'ing into this, the thread has always been about parties.

twistedthaiboy

08-07-2007, 06:47 PM

Yes you can go the archtype but only if you want to do that. In about how many MMO's have you played because i know for a fact that just like in EQ1 and EQ2 clerics have the same amount of Defense as the warriors and pallies.

Why do they have it? Well the reason is because healing does give you hate just like how damage give hate. So yes they might have the highest Defense but they lack one thing that the warriors do have and that would be Endurance or as you would call it HP.

Fighters and pallies both rely on heals but if you are to go the pally way they will still need a healer based cleric to heal them because they can only heal but so many times.

I know what I am talking about and I've been playing sence eq1 closed beta where my first character was a cleric and I never changed my job, been a healer for many many years and also played clerics back when I was 12 in the paper and pen game called D&amp;D. So don't tell me what I am wrong on.

But hearing what you said about me not playing this game, you got to understand this from my post, I posted up that if you want a real grind group you will need a real cleric and not a half gimped cleric that can only heal himself and worry about himself while others are dropping left to right. I am talking about taking mobs 10 levels above the all members within the group, getting fast exp and real exp, not this solo stuff that everyone loves so much. With a real group you can level 10x faster and have 5x more worries because that's when things get interesting. I don't want to bore myself with a cleric like everyone wants to and just be in a group where the cleric knows he can solo the mobs around him. That's just like saying hey lets go out here kill everything and not even worry while everyone leeches off me. I don't do that, I am here for real gameplay, I am here to play the game the way it is ment to be played. Play the game and play it for more then just fun but for fear that a mob might just take down the entire group, that's where the fun comes in.

By the way, I know you think you know me but you don't. Remember I am just giving people tips on what needs to be done and not make them feel stupid like you are trying to do, I know I'm not dumb and you are just making yourself look like a child. Thanks and have fun. End of discussion.

(edit) Read it again, I said solo mobs, not soloing

nellshini

08-07-2007, 06:53 PM

I was going to complain about you editing your posts instead of making a new one, but you went ahead and moved the whole post. Now it'll just look confusing to everyone else. And I'm not assuming anything about you, I'm only replying
to what you've thrown out there. I gave my advice from experience
playing this game, and from what I understand you're trying to
debunkit with experience playing other games. Giving tips is one thing,
but you might as well be shooting in the dark if you haven't set foot
as a Cleric in Fiesta, no matter how many years you healed in other
games. I'm sure if this was an EQ board you'd be 100% correct, but as I said from my experience: it really depends on the party.

Sometimes you have to stand back and heal, sometimes you have to fight, and sometimes you have to tank, fight, and heal yourself. Not every party is perfectly built and Cleric is the only class that can bend to meet the unfulfilled needs.

[EDIT] Typo... and I read it three times over, it still sounds like you're talking about solo'ing.

twistedthaiboy

08-07-2007, 07:02 PM

Well I am trying to state that it is best to play the role that you are ment to be and yes I do understand that you do have experience within the game. That is way I posted within my first post that if you are to go the full healing route that it will be best to be the leader of the group that is willing to put his foot down and explain what type of group it is. Without saying a word on the role of the group members the group will end up with little problems. That's why I recomended that the leader should be the cleric, they should be natural group leaders because it is much faster for a cleric to find people because clerics are the main reason there are groups. Even though i've not played this game long I know for a fact that most groups won't survive long withough a cleric that knows what he is doing. I am just stating that they need to heal and I know that they at times will need to heal themselves at times, but aggro management is the top thing that should be on everyones mind while grouping and knowing where your cleric is would be nice also.

I would love to stand back and heal but I am bored of that, I do know that if I was to go and become a cleric that I would be the one making the groups and being yet just a little bossy, but that goes with the territory. Right now I am not in that possition and until I get bore and can't find a good cleric to group with I will play with my other classes.

twistedthaiboy

08-07-2007, 07:07 PM

I don't want to bore myself with a cleric like everyone wants to and
just be in a group where the cleric knows he can solo the mobs around
him

&lt;if you read this a little better is states that a group that takes on solo mobs is a bore&gt; i never said a single person that takes on solo mobs.

nellshini

08-07-2007, 07:09 PM

That's something we can agree on. Generally speaking, no one in this game has a backbone. Cleric or not, it's usually in your best interest to take charge and assign roles (and command people, they usually submit /sites/all/modules/tinymce/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-tongue-out.gif.) When you get into higher KQs you'll notice that 14 out of 15 people are yelling to be invited to a party. Regardless of class, if you play the leader and lead people to victory, you'll be looked at as a better player.

Although it's a good idea to be one of the higher levels in the KQ before doing that. And you're right about groups... like most MMOs, groups are made with a spot or two already reserved for the Cleric. That itself doesn't make them the best leaders, but a Cleric would be the first to tell you what needs to be done in a party to make it more efficient.

twistedthaiboy

08-07-2007, 07:12 PM

But anyways, lets teach some of the tanks to tank, how hard do you think that would be?

nellshini

08-07-2007, 07:14 PM

Not too hard. They have a skill specifically made for threatening, just need to teach them to use it again once it cools down. That, and make them understand that tanking will drain their sp.

twistedthaiboy

08-07-2007, 07:27 PM

Yeah, there has always been a short of good tanks, I've decided after a week to become one and try to earn a name for myself and my character. So lets see if we meet ingame. Take care, happy hunting.

Time for me to get some movies.

tomcat025

08-08-2007, 01:26 AM

I have a problem when someone tells me to &quot;play my role&quot;. This is nothing personal but a simple fact.

I am with Nellshini on this one. The cleric can bend to meet most of the needs of a party. Clerics in Fiesta are remarkably plient IMHO. It is also my opinion that as a cleric in this game it is my duty to be flexible in a party.

On another note, castigate (Won't let me use dam n) you both for making me want to play my warrior and try and properly tank. /sites/all/modules/tinymce/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-tongue-out.gif I've not played her much but have been instead concentrating on my cleric.

Keenan

08-08-2007, 03:52 AM

yeh...you wont have to worry about dieing if your with a good tank he can just use mock or that kick skill to keep them off you.*

Lady-Loki

08-09-2007, 06:20 AM

Well, I certainly didn't think this simple question wouls stir up that much* convo, but, well . . . Allrighty then!

FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: Since posting the orig question I have attempted to complete a KQ Mara Pirate task (a few times) and have no success.

In one attempte I tried fighting my way through - early end to that vain attempt.

In one attempt I tried stand back and keep my party healed (and revived a couple of times - oops, shouldn't have let the fall but they were dropping HP's too fast for me) - team was successful (blue wavey SUCCESS at the end) but MY quest was not complete.

Last attempt I tried healing and thought maybe I had to make at least one hit on Marlow and/or Mara, but alas, even at lvl 22 I was wiped out before I could run back out of range.

Now the*question - HOW IN THE WORLD WOULD THE CLERIC EVER GET KQ CREDIT?

*This frustrated me so much I have left her resting on the veranda and created a new character (hmmm . . . went mage for this one but based on this thread, maybe I should have gone with a fighter and tried learning to tank).

Resandben

08-09-2007, 06:53 AM

@Nellshini and twisted - If you're having problems with bad tanks send them to the link below thats should cover the basics of what they need to know about tanking.

http://outspark.com/node/3536

On Clerics sticking to healing or attacking and healing - This is completely dependent on where you're fighting, if it's just a 2-3 person party in an area with mobs at the parties level, I as the tank have no problem with the cleric joining in and dealing damage to help us kill faster.

But if it's 5 person party on a map with mobs 10-20 lvls higher than the party member's then the cleric has to stick to healing, in some cases 2 clerics are needed because cooldowns are not wearing off fast enough on the heals.

And on the subject of clerics tanking a stray mob - This is necessary at times(especially if your party members won't stand still and attract mobs), the tank can't always get all mobs aggro'd while trying to keep the archer's and mages alive.

If the cleric is being attacked by a single mob i tend to leave that till last, while i tank and aggro the other 2-4 mobs so the damage dealers can finish them off. Cleric's are more likely to survive tanking a single mob than the damage dealers would.

Zeratul

08-09-2007, 08:59 AM

Id have to agree that clerics should never be main tanking.
The fighter type gets a wide variety of skills that assist in tanking
and the cleric doesnt. Although a buffed cleric maybe be durable
a fighter buffed is definetely more durable.

My
question to the original poster is if you are attacking as a cleric how
are you ever taking aggro. The DD are dealing more damage and the
tank is using taunts and tank moves. I dont think youd get
targeted much.

nellshini

08-09-2007, 09:11 AM

Tanking for a Cleric is a bit tough at first, since locking aggro takes long for Cleric than any other class. Once he or she does lock aggro it's not an impossible task, but it's much safer with a fighter.

And Heal is one of the more threatening spells in the game. You'll notice that a Cleric with a enhanced Heal will pull a boss in KQ if he spams it, and pull extra mobs off the tank if he doesn't do the AoE move often enough. Bash (and Trip and Bleed, later) don't threaten as much, but supporting someone does and the monsters know that.

Zeratul

08-09-2007, 09:32 AM

Ah none of the clerics Ive ever partied with fought at all so was curious.

nate5858

08-09-2007, 10:04 AM

Alot of the people have walls of text for a very simple question. So, the simple answer is stay back and heal. Attack if you can but if you can't don't worry it's not your job. As for monsters attacking you, that means that the fighter in your party isn't doing their job. I'm a fighter and as soon as I see a monster going for a mage, archer, or cleric I taunt it so the cleric only has to focus on me.

Second question: To get credit for the quest it's probably going to take a few trys and you're probably not going to be actually killing the mobs. If someone in your party kills the mobs you should get credit too. Just find a higher level fighter and party them...you should finish the quest in 2-3 trys.

Yoana

07-31-2008, 06:58 PM

I agree that clerics are good staying back and healing sometimes, but other times, you dont always have to. If i'm in a pt, with lowers levels, then i give them, restore, so if they get attacked they heal with needed me to heal them constantly. So, after they have it i go in and do some damage. Once it is done, if more monsters have come, then i stay back and heal a little bit, if the fighter is taking on to many monsters, then, i give invincability, use restore on the others, then use bash on the monsters that the fighter hasnt gotten to yet, so that he has to kill less, then i fight while bash is cooling down, use it again on a monster that hasnt been attacked yet, then by this time restore is over, so i fall back and heal and restore agian. THis works for me, not sure if it works for anyone else.

Hazol

07-31-2008, 07:40 PM

The-Great-Paladin

07-31-2008, 07:45 PM

yourmojo

08-01-2008, 08:06 PM

First of all, clerics were not designed specifically to heal. If that were the case, we would not be able to tank well, attack well, and hold agro well. Clerics were designed like any other class was, fighting being the primary function. The fact that the class has many healing abilities doesn't mean they are restricted to a healer's job. For example, a mage has many damage dealing skills, yet they often are found tanking, same with archers. I'm sure if they could heal, you'd have support archers and mages running around too. And then you'd get people telling them to play their "role" in the party....etc.

Second, even though the cleric isn't the most efficient class at fighting, doesn't mean they shouldn't fight. It simply indicates a class that's broken and will likely never be fixed. The developers would not make a class that specifically heals. Why? Because you'd be pressing F1 until level 150. How fun is that? No, that's why we have bash, trip, and a hammer with decent damage/critical ratings. You would argue it's to defend ourselves, fine. But then what's the point of allowing upgraded hammers, skill empowerment, damage enhancers, lics...etc. Why does the cleric generate so much agro when they fight? Simple reason, as I've mentioned, they were designed to fight, like any other class. Healing is just a handy thing to have, the better healing spells are designed for those who want to take the full support route.

When a Cleric is partied, is the party looking to them to keep everyone healed and/or revived or is the party expecting the Cleric to be fully engaged in battle?People expect the cleric to stand back and heal.